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Brews & Views Bulletin Board Service * World Expressions * Iv'e been Censored on the AHA Forum < Previous Next >

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Bob G.
Advanced Member
Username: Brewerbob

Post Number: 749
Registered: 06-2002
Posted on Wednesday, May 04, 2011 - 07:22 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I must be a radical renegade. I'm a 5o yo Desert Storm Marine Veteran and have a few opinions:

http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=7271.0

Oh well...
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 12894
Registered: 01-2002
Posted on Wednesday, May 04, 2011 - 12:21 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

You can continue the argument here as far as I'm concerned. I admit I didn't follow the thread on the AHA forum thoroughly, but I believe you were censored for questioning the timing of the bin Laden raid/capture/killing.

It's a valid opinion, although I disagree. If timing were really the priority they would have waited until October 2012. It happened now because that's when all the intelligence fell into place and the probability of success seemed high.
 

Paul Hayslett
Senior Member
Username: Paulhayslett

Post Number: 2825
Registered: 02-2002
Posted on Wednesday, May 04, 2011 - 12:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Well, it certainly would have been a definitive nail in the coffin of Obama's re-election chances if the raid had gone badly. Imagine the coverage if we were to find that he'd been telling jokes at the WHCD while SEALs were dying on his orders, shooting civilians deep inside a nominal ally. Carter's flame-out after the attempt to rescue the Iranian hostages would have seemed tame.

So, if the timing was intended to coincide with the start of the re-election campaign, it would definitely have been a "kill or cure" type of risk. If it works, he gets a bounce in the polls. If it doesn't, he can just pack his bags and not bother trying. No need to put the wife and kids through all the stress of another campaign. Save the donors some money. Etc.

I think it would take enormous brass balls to roll the dice like that.
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 12896
Registered: 01-2002
Posted on Wednesday, May 04, 2011 - 01:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I suppose I forget one of my favorite engineering maxims: it takes everything to go right but just one thing to go wrong.

Despite all the careful planning, there was also a high degree of luck this time.
 

Paul Hayslett
Senior Member
Username: Paulhayslett

Post Number: 2826
Registered: 02-2002
Posted on Wednesday, May 04, 2011 - 02:32 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hmmm... I appears that my timeline is a bit off. Obama wasn't yukking it up at the WHCD while the SEALs were en-route to the site -- he was playing golf! Apparently, he was sticking to normal schedule to hide the fact that something was up, although he cut his golf game short.

The risk/benefit ratio (of the timing being politically motivated) just doesn't add up for me. If the operation goes badly, he's roadkill. If it goes well, he still wins or loses the election based on the strength of the economy 16 months from now, something he has limited control over.

Unless, of course, he's such a good politician that he's running a campaign based on the idea that he's a bad politician. "See, if I was a good politician, I wouldn't have made these mistakes. That's why you should vote for me." Makes me think of the scene in The Princess Bride where the Sicilian is trying to decide which cup to drink from.
 

Denny Conn
Senior Member
Username: Denny

Post Number: 7565
Registered: 01-2001
Posted on Wednesday, May 04, 2011 - 04:07 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Bob, I'm sorry you feel that way. You knew yourself that you broke the no politics rule there, and asked for the thread to be locked. I wish you had contacted me privately about this.
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 12898
Registered: 01-2002
Posted on Wednesday, May 04, 2011 - 04:18 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Denny, I participate only occasionally on the AHA forum, and when I do I discuss brewing, so I wasn't aware of the ban on political speech.

We're more lenient here, especially in World Expressions, although I, too, have been known to delete posts that were clearly personal in the nature of their attack.
 

Denny Conn
Senior Member
Username: Denny

Post Number: 7566
Registered: 01-2001
Posted on Wednesday, May 04, 2011 - 05:31 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Bill, I hope I didn't imply that this thread was inappropriate here. 2 different boards, 2 different philosophies and sets of rules. FWIW, the no politics rule on the AHA forum was at least partly in response to what I've seen happen here and on a couple other boards. The pub section of the AHA forum has this header...

"A place for discussion of not strictly beer related topics. Please keep it civil and no discussion of race, religion, or politics."
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 12900
Registered: 01-2002
Posted on Wednesday, May 04, 2011 - 05:38 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Denny, I didn't take it as criticism of my post or this board. You're right: two different places, two different set of rules.

But if there's no race, religion or politics, what's left--sex??!!

Oh, I forgot, there's always beer!

(Message edited by BillPierce on May 04, 2011)
 

Denny Conn
Senior Member
Username: Denny

Post Number: 7567
Registered: 01-2001
Posted on Wednesday, May 04, 2011 - 05:49 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Family, jobs, cars, bacon....
 

John McElver
Member
Username: Johnmc

Post Number: 104
Registered: 04-2010
Posted on Wednesday, May 04, 2011 - 06:17 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Denny, I'm afraid you are treading on sacred ground with the bacon talk there. :-)

Seriously, though, if the forum allows it, OK; if not, not OK. Though it can go to far.
(When one of my favorite forums banned zombie discussion, the mods actually locked threads wherein the OP begged for no zombie talk and the main posts were zombie-free, but one loose cannon threw in a zombie reference. That was a bit much.)
 

Bob G.
Advanced Member
Username: Brewerbob

Post Number: 752
Registered: 06-2002
Posted on Wednesday, May 04, 2011 - 09:44 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

No worries Denny, policy is policy. You know me, I'm not taking it personally. Hey, if you could do me a favor, I'd appreciate it. I honked up my beveragebob acct on the site and I can only get in as a guest. I think I was approaching 400 posts. Any chance you can fix it? Thanx!
 

Denny Conn
Senior Member
Username: Denny

Post Number: 7568
Registered: 01-2001
Posted on Wednesday, May 04, 2011 - 10:05 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'll see what I can do, Bob. I kinda muddle my way through the software. If I dickchimp it, maybe Drew can fix it.
 

Jeff Rankert
Intermediate Member
Username: Hopfenundmalz

Post Number: 311
Registered: 06-2008
Posted on Thursday, May 05, 2011 - 01:42 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Bob, I would hate to see you leave the AHA forums. I might have some questions on Ballantine IPA clones that you and the Professor could both add to.

There have been many times I have typed a reply on the AHA site, read it, and thought that it was just political venting. Then it is never posted. I try, I try.

Bob - thanks for your service in the past. I have had 3 family members in Afghanistan at the same time. Makes you think of them every day.

A little story. My Marine BIL who did 2 tours in Vietnam gave my brother a P-38 can opener the day he shipped out, to wear in Afghanistan as a lucky charm. He cried when my brother gave it back to him, safe at home. Powerful emotions were in play that day.
 

Bob G.
Advanced Member
Username: Brewerbob

Post Number: 753
Registered: 06-2002
Posted on Thursday, May 05, 2011 - 05:50 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Jeff,

Thank you for the kind words. I humbly bow to you and yours. I completely understand sacrifice on any level. Thank you for that. Jeff, I am so overwhelmed with your post, I just need to back off right now. I will address you personally soon.

Denny, thanks for what you do, I'll be standing by.
 

Dan Listermann
Senior Member
Username: Listermann

Post Number: 7718
Registered: 03-2004
Posted on Friday, May 06, 2011 - 03:09 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Tomorrow, PFC Kurt R. Listermann will fly out of Afghanistan for Germany - finally!
 

Robert
Intermediate Member
Username: Okierat

Post Number: 364
Registered: 05-2003
Posted on Friday, May 06, 2011 - 11:52 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Glad to hear that Dan. Best news your family could get.
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 12913
Registered: 01-2002
Posted on Friday, May 06, 2011 - 12:37 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Both your family and your son deserve congratulations, Dan. It's a great sacrifice to put one's life in harm's way.
 

davidwaite
Senior Member
Username: Davidw

Post Number: 2161
Registered: 03-2001
Posted on Friday, May 06, 2011 - 01:11 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

PFC Listermanns service is greatly appreciated and he has our gratitude.
 

Dan Listermann
Senior Member
Username: Listermann

Post Number: 7719
Registered: 03-2004
Posted on Friday, May 06, 2011 - 01:58 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks guys, I am thrilled beyond words. In June the wife and I are going to Germany to tour around with Kurt and his wife, then they are coming home for a couple of weeks ending on the Fourth of July at my extended, and I really mean extended, family's annual party.

On a more sobering note, his Squadron lost two over the deployment.
 

Bob G.
Advanced Member
Username: Brewerbob

Post Number: 763
Registered: 06-2002
Posted on Saturday, May 07, 2011 - 06:05 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Congrats on your son Dan.
 

John McElver
Member
Username: Johnmc

Post Number: 105
Registered: 04-2010
Posted on Saturday, May 07, 2011 - 04:04 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Good deal, Dan.

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