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Brews & Views Bulletin Board Service * Brews and Views Archive 2003 * September 2, 2003 * What compound causes roasted coffe aroma and flavour? < Previous Next >

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Fredrik (213.114.44.196)
Posted on Saturday, May 24, 2003 - 07:13 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yesterday I bought two commercial beers and tried them just for reference. I find these test alot more interesting now when I have done a couple of batches of my own beer.

1) Erdinger, dunkel weissbier 5,6%
(german)

Pretty black in color
This beer is one of my favourites, I like the mouthfeel and the low bitterness. Though I did sense some diacetyl aroma in this beer which
I don't like.

2) Shepherd neame, Whistable Bay, organic ale 4,5%
(english beer)

Almost orange in flavour
I found this beer to be pretty odd. It had some aromas and flavours of roasted coffe and whiskey.
I like the roasted coffe aroma though!

Does anyone know what causes the roasted coffee aroma? Overall I didn't like the second beer very much, except for the impressive coffe aroma.

Suppose I want to have some coffee aroma together with a weissbier, but with no diacetyl. How would I accomplish the coffe aroma??

/Fredrik
 

Fredrik (213.114.44.196)
Posted on Saturday, May 24, 2003 - 07:21 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hmmm would simply putting some dark roast coffe in the wort work?
 

Beer_Lifter (66.75.143.130)
Posted on Saturday, May 24, 2003 - 08:13 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I have seen malts labled specifically as "coffee malt" before, but usually a dark crystal, like 120L, or roased barley are what I use when I'm looking for "coffee." Coffee works too, obviously.
 

Magnus Graham (148.177.161.211)
Posted on Saturday, May 24, 2003 - 08:28 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I hope that the Shepherd Neame was not too cold. British ales are a bit like red wine in that they can taste pretty rotten when served cold.

It may be an 'organic' thing. I didn't like the organic beer from my fave brewery of the 90s - Caledonian - and think it was deliberately made to be a bit like health food (if it doesn't taste bad, it can't be good).

Mag
 

Fredrik (213.114.44.196)
Posted on Saturday, May 24, 2003 - 12:13 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks, I will try some of the really dark roast malt next time, or maybe even some coffe. I drink alot of coffe anyway :) I feared the coffe thing was due to some rare fermentation product in which case it would have been tricky to transfer into another beer type.

The shepherd wasn't that bad, it was just not my type of beer. It was almost close to desperado beer (a little soda pop style). On the label they recommend serving chilled. It was anything but malty. Next batch I will try to find a receipe for something clean, malty, low in bitterness, but not too sweet that's dark but not black.

Does anyone have any good ideas?

I have an idea to mixe wheat with dark malts and maybe some coffe and maybe use koelsch yeast again because that was very very clean on my last batch at low temps. What do you think?

/Fredrik
 

chumley (63.227.169.143)
Posted on Saturday, May 24, 2003 - 05:37 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Fredrik:

I think you can get coffee flavor without using coffee from dark malts. I brewed this past spring a tweaked version of Bill Pierce's St. Chuck's Porter (before you ask, the recipe is here):

http://brewery.org/gambmug/recs/975183377-19305.shtml

I didn't have any biscuit malt, so I substituted 0.25 lb of Hugh Baird brown malt for it. The resultant beer had an excellent coffee-like flavor.

I can't say, though, that I have ever tasted coffee in a pale or amber beer.

That said, others here have posted about good results using coffee. I like to use malt to get coffee (and chocolate) flavors. If you know some one who has a copy of Homebrewing Vol I by Al Korzonas, look at the malt flavor description table. Al steeped nearly all of the commercially available crystal and dark malts at the time and provided decriptions of the flavor extrated from them. Those tables alone are worht the price of the book. (Unfortunately, I have seemed to misplace my copy at the moment, or else I would post all the malts that Al indicated had a coffee flavor - maybe someone else out there has a copy?)
 

Fredrik (213.114.44.196)
Posted on Monday, May 26, 2003 - 05:18 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks for that receipe Chumley! I have never tried drinking a porter actually. I've only tasted it in cooking (sauces). I am really looking forward to my next batch. I don't have much beer left from my second so I better get to it, but I won't be able to do anything until at least two weeks from now. 5 gallons isn't that much after all :) What worries me is that summer is coming here and I don't have a fridge yet.

/Fredrik
 

Greg Nolan (12.10.148.126)
Posted on Sunday, August 17, 2003 - 01:30 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I brew a coffee oatmeal stout that I simply add a pot of strong coffee to; two pots for 10 gallons. It's great.
 

Jeff McClain (206.207.77.117)
Posted on Sunday, August 17, 2003 - 02:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I did a Black Butte Porter a week ago. It has a nice dark, bitter, coffee taste (not sure how you get coffee aroma without the bitterness). Fredrik, I would recommend that you go buy a Black Butte Porter and see how you like the taste of that. I did 2 5 gallon carboys from my AG version last weekend, and I'm going to try dry beaning some coffee in the secondary on one of them (might be too much, as this beer is already fairly bitter and has a nice dark roast taste).

Also, I have to agree with your Fredrick about how much more interesting beer has become to me now that I've started brewing my own. Before I had no idea what made up the various tastes and flavors and never really even gave it much thought. Now, I actually love to try new beers and just mouth taste them and try to figure out what element is what. Even temperature and carbonation levels help me figure out more about what I'm doing with my own beers.

Fortunately, I still seem to enjoy my own brew out of a nice cold tap into a litre mug the best (though I am more critical of my own beer, I think, than others).

Regards,

-Jeff

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