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Brews & Views Bulletin Board Service * Brews and Views Archive 2003 * September 29, 2003 * Peach Aroma? < Previous Next >

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Joseph Williams (24.59.244.245)
Posted on Wednesday, September 10, 2003 - 12:53 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I brewed a barley wine on Sunday with a S.G. of 1.130. Took a gravity reading today and it had dropped to 1.078. It has fermented at 65 (probe thermometer in SS conical). The sample that I pulled smelled like a cross between peaches and green apple. I understand that Green apple and is a common smell during fermentation and that acetaldehyde usually goes away with time, but the fruit smell has me curious. I thought that the fruity smells only came with warmer fermentations. I almost thought it smelled like peach schnapps, but my math says the alcohol is only around 6%.

Any ideas? Thanks
 

Jared Cook (12.237.202.50)
Posted on Wednesday, September 10, 2003 - 01:28 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Dude, you brewed it two days ago. It won't taste anything like it does now. Tasting samples doesn't tell you much until the SG gets down closer to target.
 

Belly Buster Bob (142.177.93.148)
Posted on Wednesday, September 10, 2003 - 02:45 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

please don't say "green apples" it hurts
 

Les Parti (66.214.127.5)
Posted on Wednesday, September 10, 2003 - 03:59 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

mmmm... peach schapps.

Go on and taste. Taste everything. Grain, yeast, mash, wort, hops, trub... Taste and learn.
 

Bill Pierce (24.141.63.119)
Posted on Wednesday, September 10, 2003 - 01:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

What yeast strain did you pitch? Fruity esters are common, especially with high gravity fermentations. I wouldn't be concerned about it at all. Understand that how the beer smells during fermentation bears only a small resemblance to how it will taste when finished, especially with a beer that benefits from aging.
 

Fredrik (62.20.8.148)
Posted on Wednesday, September 10, 2003 - 03:02 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Peach smell seems to be benzyl acetate and that benzyl group is probably originating from the amino acid phenylalanine. This is interesting as it's a bit related to that ester/pitch tread. I wonder if there is a difference in amino acid derived esters and other higher alcohol esters derived from sugars regarding stuff like temperature and pitching - as discussed in the ester thread?

What pitching rate do you use for such an outrageous OG??

What kind of fruits do you generally get from high OG brews, even at low temps? I am curious if they are only amino acid derived ones or not?

/Fredrik
 

Joseph Williams (24.59.244.245)
Posted on Wednesday, September 10, 2003 - 05:55 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I had a one gallon starter (1.030) of irish ale at high kreusen in the fermenter and I just pumped the wort on top of it. There was a 14 hour lag and then it literaly exploded blowing foam out the seal around the edge of my lid. I took some pictures of it because I couldn't believe how much foam there was even with a blow-off tube. I'm not worried, just curious.

With a starter like this, how many active yeast cells would that be (ballpark estimate)? Or is there no way for a HBer to know that?
 

Bill Pierce (24.141.63.119)
Posted on Wednesday, September 10, 2003 - 06:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

It would be pure speculation, Joseph, but what was the original source and volume of the yeast and how many steps did it take to get it to the 1 gallon starter?
 

gregory gettman (67.75.117.226)
Posted on Wednesday, September 10, 2003 - 06:45 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Well one gallon for a normal 5 gallon batch would be in the ball park of the aceptable homebrew pitching rate. If you were brewing for a Pro brewery your starter would have to be like 3 gallons? I think?

If we asume you used a smack pack from wyeast which claim about 2.5 billion cells per pack ( after swelling.) Then one gallon starter would give you a little less than 100 billion cells, this is just a guess though, not knowing the rate of dead cells and so forth.

The pro rate is 200-400 billion cells I've read, so your not far off but maybe below if you compare your self to a real brewery.

However this was a high gravity batch so.........you may have underpitched just slightly. Beer in mind that is my opinion not fact. Also you can get away with brewing a regular five gallon batch with a 1 qt starter if the gravity is normal 1.050..................

What you did for The BW is what I do for lagers. Ale's I get away with a build up to half gallon starters. Course I work from slants so my calculations differ a bit.

To answer your question I would have used 1.5-2 gallon starter for a bw that big. (In fact I'm getting ready to make one in november)

Don't worry though I'm sure it will be wonderful after a year or so, most BW are. Also If it dosent attenuate to the point you want you can always pitch another health yeast strain, this sometimes adds complexity.

Also don't rush the ferment let it sit in primary for at least 2-3 weeks. Then age in the secondary, beer always seems to age better in bulk in my experience?

Hope everything turn out good..............
 

Joseph Williams (24.59.244.245)
Posted on Wednesday, September 10, 2003 - 08:28 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I used a 125ml Smack Pack from Wyeast. Their web site says 45 to 60 billion at full kruesen and including the smack pack, three steps.

I know the best way is to ferment a batch of low gravity beer then pitch the wort on top of the yeast cake but I didn't have enough time to do that.

I was planning to let it go in the primary until it is virtually done then rack to a 10 gallon corny keg and let it age for 6 months or so. I am looking at this BW as a labor of love, not a vehicle to a drunken stupor.
 

Bill Pierce (24.141.63.119)
Posted on Wednesday, September 10, 2003 - 08:45 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Stepping up a 125 ml smack pack to a gallon in two steps might (as I said, this is pure speculation) result in a population increase of about 50 times, which would be somewhere from 2.25 to 3 trillion cells. That's not excessive for a very high gravity fermentation such as yours. White Labs, for example, recommends using four times the classic optimum pitching rate of 1 million cells per milliliter of wort per degree Plato of gravity for very high gravity fermentations. In your case that's 5.7 trillion cells.

You can see why there are so many recommendations to use the yeast cake from a previous batch for really high gravity beers.
 

Fredrik (62.20.8.148)
Posted on Thursday, September 11, 2003 - 10:16 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I realized I made a mistake that phenylalanin would give benzyl alcohol via erlich.. it is 2-phenyl ethanol.. anyway I did a search and that corresponding acetic ester also is a bit peachy so it could still be that amino acid. There seems to be at least 5 compounds that are described as bit peachy, so it seems there are many candidate mechanisms for "peach"! Things always get more complicated the more you think you learn... that rule always seem to always hold true.

Was it peachy/flowery or peachy/fruity or peachy/nutty? :)

*rips some hair off*

/Fredrik
 

Vance Barnes (216.85.253.82)
Posted on Thursday, September 11, 2003 - 07:44 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hey Joe, good to see you're back in NY and brewing. Is that the Irish Ale strain of yeast? If it's very flocculent you might want to consider rousting it during primary. I always give my BW fermentors a swirl every day to keep the yeast in suspension. Seems that can be as big a factor in the fermentation stopping as the alcohol level. SS conical - ohhhh I'm jealous.

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