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Brews & Views Bulletin Board Service * Brews and Views Archive 2004 * January 9, 2004 * Orange tint < Previous Next >

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Bierview (152.163.252.67)
Posted on Monday, December 15, 2003 - 05:53 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Anyone familiar with a specialty grain that will give me a slight orange tint?

BV
 

Hophead (167.4.1.38)
Posted on Monday, December 15, 2003 - 06:22 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Special Roast (Briess 50L).
 

Chris Colby (66.25.196.39)
Posted on Monday, December 15, 2003 - 06:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

If you want an orange tint to your beer, try adding some sweet potatoes to your mash. (I'm not kidding.) Just peel, cube, boil and mash (whip) the potatoes then stir them into the mash (the grains soaked in hot water).

Three to four pounds -- roughly three to four sweet potatoes -- in a mash designed to produce five gallons of beer will add an orange tint, but no flavor, to your beer. My sweet potato ESB, with it's beautiful orange-red color, is one of my favorite "oddball" beers that I brew.

You may want to balance out the drying influence of the sweet potatoes (and intensify their color) by adding some moderately-colored crystal malt (30-40 °L). I used 0.66 lbs. crystal (35 °L) in my mash last year. This year, I'm going with a mix of crystal and biscuit. (Now if only I could find a brew day! I've had to postpone twice in the past couple weeks.) Last year, the crystal I added gave me enough body, but I like my beers on the dry side. You may want to add more.

I'm also going to try roasting the sweet potatoes this year in order to develop some flavors from this adjunct. I think they'll work well with the biscuit malt. (But, there's only one way to find out.)

Sweet potatoes (as well as sweet potatoes and yams) are about 80% water, so I multiply their weight by 0.2 to get their dry weight for recipe calculations. I assume the dry weight is equivalent to corn sugar. My results indicate this is a fairly reasonable assumption (although it might not be dead on.)

I'll have more on brewing with potatoes in the Mar-Apr BYO. (I'm not trying to post a commercial; I'm just mentioning it in case someone's interested.)

Chris Colby
Bastrop, TX
 

Hophead (172.171.180.209)
Posted on Monday, December 15, 2003 - 09:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

And here I thought someone would recommend pumpkins as a specialty grain. Missed it by that much...
 

Bill Pierce (24.141.63.119)
Posted on Monday, December 15, 2003 - 11:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Chris, what figure do you use for the extract potential of the sweet potatoes? I know they're about 80 percent water but I'm curious about the sugars. I'm not surprised about the fact that they dry out the beer; I would think yams might do so even more.
 

Harwich Hall Of Fame (208.59.33.27)
Posted on Tuesday, December 16, 2003 - 12:02 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

munich malt or vienna
 

Chris Colby (66.25.196.39)
Posted on Tuesday, December 16, 2003 - 02:44 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hey Bill,
I calculate the dry weight of the sweet potatoes and treat that weight as corn sugar -- 37 pts./lb./gallon (or 37 point gallons per pound). (In wet weight, that would be 7.4 point gallons per pound.)

I wouldn't swear that that value is exactly right, but -- according to my recipe formulation and subsequent gravity measurements -- it isn't too far off. (It is within my own personal tolerances for error in this matter, at least. If I added huge amounts of potatoes, I'd probably try to experiment and arrive at a more accurate number.)


Chris Colby
Bastrop, TX
 

Andrew Pearce (68.225.195.30)
Posted on Tuesday, December 16, 2003 - 03:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are you talking sweet potatoes or yams? There is a difference. Yams are the bright orange ones, sweet potatoes come in different variations ranging from yellow/white to orangish.

--Andrew
 

Bill Pierce (24.141.63.119)
Posted on Tuesday, December 16, 2003 - 03:17 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Andrew, yams are sweeter than most other sweet potatoes (they're all members of the same family but vary in color and sweetness). I would think they also contribute more color.

Chris, the figure I have for the extract potential of corn sugar is 1.046. Are you suggesting that the sugars in sweet potatoes are different?
 

Chris Colby (66.25.196.39)
Posted on Tuesday, December 16, 2003 - 05:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Andrew,
I'm talking about sweet potatoes (which are a true root and a member of the morning glory family), not yams (which are tubers closely related to lilies, but not sweet potatoes or "regular" potatoes -- which are tubers from the nightshade family). From a practical standpoint, I think you could use yams in the same way you use sweet potatoes.

Bill,
In the appendix of Beer Captured (by the Szamatulskis), it gives the extract potential of corn sugar 1.037. I'm just using their figure. Interestingly, they give the extract potential of invert sugar as 1.046. I always wondered why the large difference -- any ideas?


Chris Colby
Bastrop, TX
 

Denny Conn (63.114.138.2)
Posted on Tuesday, December 16, 2003 - 08:18 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Chris, I've never seen a potential for corn sugar of 1.037 anywhere else, so it must be a misprint or mistake.
 

Chris Colby (66.25.196.39)
Posted on Tuesday, December 16, 2003 - 08:47 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hey Denny,
A quick look through my brewing books reveals:

Papazian, in his latest "Joy," lists corn sugar at 1.038-1.044.

Ray Daniels, in "Designing Great Beers" gives corn sugar at 37 and cane sugar at 46. The Szamatulskis give corn sugar at 37 and invert sugar at 46. And Foster, in "Pale Ale," gives sucrose at 46 and invert and corn sugar at 36.

I couldn't find anything in Miller, Noonan, Fix or Lewis and Young. (If only one of us owned a hydrometer, scale and had access to some corn sugar 8-)


Chris Colby
Bastrop, TX
 

Bill Pierce (24.141.63.119)
Posted on Tuesday, December 16, 2003 - 08:51 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Chris, I'll defer to your superior botanical knowledge. I wasn't aware that yams are not closely related to sweet potatoes. However, they do seem sweeter and to have a more pronounced orange color to me.

As for the extract potential of corn sugar (dextrose), I believe the Szamatulskis' data comes from Charlie Papazian's Homebrewer's Companion. In it Charlie claims the lower extract potential of 1.037 is due to the fact that 20 percent of the weight is the result of the sugar being bound to water molecules.

Another article from Brewing Techniques (http://www.brewingtechniques.com/library/backissues/issue1.3/manning.html) suggests that corn sugar has an extract potential 90 percent that of sucrose (but provides no explanation). If that is the case it would be 1.0416 (90 percent of 1.0462).

Homebrewer Mike Uchima, who was formerly very active on the rec.crafts.brewing newsgroup, lists the extract potential on his website as 1.040 (http://hbd.org/uchima/tech/extract.html).

A post to the HBD (http://hbd.org/hbd/archive/2572.html#2572-4) states that it is the same as that of cane sugar (sucrose).

I'm not sure why invert sugar (where the sucrose molecule is broken down into its components of glucose and fructose) would have a lower extract potential than either glucose or fructose. Again the source appears to be Papazian, who lists the potential of Belgian candi sugar as 1.036 but does not provide a reason.

I'd love to have some clarification about this.
 

Denny Conn (63.114.138.2)
Posted on Tuesday, December 16, 2003 - 08:54 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks for the update, Chris. I can only say "DOH!". FWIW, Promash lists it as 1.047 and that's primarily where I look for these types of things. Promash also lists cane and candi sugar at 47.
 

Chris Colby (66.25.196.39)
Posted on Tuesday, December 16, 2003 - 08:54 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

What value does ProMash assign for the extract potential of corn sugar? Would the "real" extract value depend on the percent moisture in the sugar? Could that (somehow) account for the supposed difference between corn and cane sugar? (Is one more hygroscopic than the other? Corn sugar would need to have 20% more moisture by weight for that to be the case.)

Chris Colby
Bastrop, TX
 

Chris Colby (66.25.196.39)
Posted on Tuesday, December 16, 2003 - 09:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hey Bill and Denny,
Our messages are passing each other. You guys just answered a few of my next questions.

37 divided by 46 is 0.80, so if cane sugar were completely dry and corn sugar contained 20% bound water, this would explain the difference.

PS Bill, I suppose I could claim my "superior botanical knowledge" came from my PhD in biology. In reality, I got that info from one of my wife's cookbooks ("The New Professional Chef: Sixth Edition") while researching an article I'm writing. The notes are sitting right on my desk, so I decided to crank up the nerditude of my post a notch 8-)


Chris Colby
Bastrop, TX
 

Denny Conn (63.114.138.2)
Posted on Tuesday, December 16, 2003 - 09:54 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

"Nerditude"..gotta remember that one!
 

Hophead (167.4.1.38)
Posted on Tuesday, December 16, 2003 - 10:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Just check Fredrik's profile... :)

So, Bierview, why do you want an orange tint in yer brew? Inquiring minds want to know...
 

Bierview (205.188.208.75)
Posted on Wednesday, December 17, 2003 - 02:16 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ahhhhh...that's right back to the orange. A friend is crazy about magic hat Ole #9 and tells me my clone is not the correct color. Needs to be more orange. Apparently something unique to #9.

BV
 

David Woods (67.242.51.116)
Posted on Wednesday, December 17, 2003 - 02:35 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did you try dry aprohopping for that color. When Magic Hat #9 is in a glass, it has the same color as my dried apricots in my trial mix. Well, sort of, I didn't use a color scale or anything, just eyeballing it.

David
 

Bierview (152.163.252.67)
Posted on Saturday, December 20, 2003 - 02:45 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Never thought of that David. Do you just put in dried apricots with no preparation? How much for 5 gal.?

BV
 

Hophead (172.170.162.73)
Posted on Saturday, December 20, 2003 - 04:54 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Make it stop.
 

chumley (65.102.122.67)
Posted on Monday, December 22, 2003 - 03:17 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I dry-hopped candied yams in my last batch of pumpkinbrau, and the harvest gold tincture is to die for.
 

Chuck Denofrio (64.135.203.48)
Posted on Monday, December 22, 2003 - 03:54 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Way to go Chumley, give the newbies some fuel.

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