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Brews & Views Bulletin Board Service * Brews and Views Archive 2004 * January 9, 2004 * Please help me clone a stout for a Xmas gift. < Previous Next >

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Travis Adams (137.161.201.253)
Posted on Tuesday, December 23, 2003 - 03:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Guys - I have decided to give the ingredients for Tsunami Stout to my neighbor. He loves this stuff, and loves to brew with me. I have had a hell of a time with AG - but am willing to try again.
The page/description is here:
http://www.pelicanbrewery.com/brewery/tsunami_brew.htm

I was going to batch sparge this time - since previous brews have left me with serious astringency. I was going to follow Denny's directions in the new BYO and on his website. So I am going to assume a 65% efficiency and go from there.
I only have a 5 gallon converted cooler, so I am limited to that volume - or about 13 lbs of grain total.
I don't know anything else about this beer - except that it tastes great - it's like a combination of a sweet stout and a dry stout to me - not as dry as dry stout, but definately roasty and chewy. Very coffee like.

so assuming 60% efficiency for batch sparging etc. here is what I am thinking.
10.5 lbs pale
1 lb light DME
1 lb flaked barley
1 lb roasted barley
.5 lb black patent

1.5 oz of Willamette at 60
.5 oz Magnum at 10 minutes

WLP001 yeast.

Simple dark ••• stout. What do you think? I am assuming that the order of ingredients on the site dictates the percentage in the brew.
This gives me an OG of 1.064 - not too high, but will do. I also get about 40 ibu's - which seems right.

Any thoughts? I need to get these ingredients tomorrow night at about 3:00 pacific time. I really appreciate the help guys.
Thanks in advance - Travis
 

Bill Pierce (24.141.63.119)
Posted on Tuesday, December 23, 2003 - 03:55 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Half a pound of black patent malt is quite a bit. Some people are fond of the sharp, acidic flavor it contributes while others are not. At any rate, I would be inclined to limit it to no more than 4 oz. per 5 gallons.

I would reverse the hops, using Magnum (a high alpha variety) for bittering and Willamette (increase the amount to 1 oz.) for aroma.

It's been a few years since I was at the pub, but I recall this stout being very good.
 

Travis Adams (137.161.201.253)
Posted on Tuesday, December 23, 2003 - 04:11 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Bill - I concur. rereading the description I am thinking of lowering the black patent to 4 oz, and if I can find it, using some black barley. There is an article in one of the online Briess newsletter's from this brewer talking of switching to a blend of roasted barley and black barley - that would get me the darker color without the black patent acidic flavor I think.
As for the hops, rereading the description I am thinking I will add them both at 60 minutes - the description says "a blend of hops" - which makes me think I should blend the two hops together. I don't remember this beer having high aroma, so it makes sense for a roasty stout to just have some nice bitterness correct?
Thanks alot Bill - I really appreaciat the help.
Travis
 

davidw (209.107.44.126)
Posted on Tuesday, December 23, 2003 - 04:17 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Travis: a small percentage of de-bittered black malt will aid in darkening this stout and doesn't have quite the bite of typical black patent or black barley.
 

Travis Adams (137.161.201.253)
Posted on Tuesday, December 23, 2003 - 04:34 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

David - I was thinking of that - but was also trying to follow the ingredient list on the website - not trying to add something that wasn't there. If it was my stout - I think I would add some carapils since I won't serve it on nitro - Thanks for the help guys..
Travis
 

Denny Conn (63.114.138.2)
Posted on Tuesday, December 23, 2003 - 06:53 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Travis, Darron Welch, the brewer at the Pelican, is a great guy and a former homebrewer. In the past, he's been very forthcoming with recipes. I'd contact him and see what he says.
 

Travis Adams (137.161.201.253)
Posted on Tuesday, December 23, 2003 - 07:11 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Denny - I was going to do that, but I have to buy the ingredients today, and am at work (fed gov.) so I thought I would make a best guess for this first attempt. What do you think of my guess?
10.5 lbs pale
1 lb light DME
1 lb flaked barley
1 lb roasted barley
4 oz black patent

1 oz of Willamette at 60+.5 oz Magnum at 60 minutes

WLP001 yeast.
I am making the hop change based on the "blended hops" note in the description. And i don't recall this beer having any aroma hops.

I guess the important thing is that my neighbor won't care if it is perfect - but I want to get close - it is such a great beer..

Thanks guys!
Travis
 

Tim W (56.0.84.111)
Posted on Tuesday, December 23, 2003 - 08:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Travis,
I would go with 100% Magnum at 60, 1oz. of Willamette at 20 and 1oz. Willamette when cooled down. On the website they refer to "blended" and "combined" several times I don't think they meant it literally. The reason I say this is Magnum is a great bittering hop, New Belgium uses it for bittering exclusively on all there beers. You would be better served by saving the willamettes for there flavor and aroma. A stout with the roasted notes they talk about "combined" with hop flavor and aroma, is how I would interpet the web info. Some thoughts I have on the astingency problems you and I have been dealing with. I attribute my problems to one or more of the following: the mill I made that pulverizes the husk (most likely cause), not controlling ferment temperatures, carrying over to much trub into my fermenters (see New Brewing Lager Beer pp170), using lots of low alpha whole hops for bittering. What branch of the gov. do you work for, I work for the P.O.
 

Jim O'Conner (64.70.24.207)
Posted on Tuesday, December 23, 2003 - 08:22 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I've heard of some brewers adding the black patent for the last 30mins. of the mash to avoid the astringency. Not sure pulverizing the husks would make a difference as long as water temp is in correct range.
 

Jim Keaveney (205.188.208.75)
Posted on Tuesday, December 23, 2003 - 08:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

"Not sure pulverizing the husks would make a difference"

Yeah, i was thinking that myself. the general consensus around here (and my experience as well) seems to be that you should crush as much as you can get away with without getting a stuck mash for higher efficiency. i do seem to recall reading something in one of the old homebrew books about not overcrushing the grain to avoid tanin extraction. was that just b.s.?
 

Jim Keaveney (205.188.208.75)
Posted on Tuesday, December 23, 2003 - 08:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

didnt mean to hijack the thread with that question.

on topic, i see no point in adding willamette at 60 min. magnum will do the job of bittering. if you dont want hop aroma, add the williamete at 30 min or so for flavor and some bitterness.
 

Travis Adams (137.161.201.253)
Posted on Tuesday, December 23, 2003 - 09:23 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I concur on the hop ideas - I absolutely love willamette in Brown ales - so if it ends up with some willamette flavor how could that be bad?
On the astringency point, I have had a couple of things stack against me. First of all, noone bothered to tell me that I needed to treat my water - I live in Portland Oregon - with 2ppm calcium. I had tried treating the ph of my mash with citric acid etc. and that didn't make any difference. I had had some other issues as well - with galvanized washers and brass etc. etc.
After dumping out 25 gallons this year the final batch was perfect except astringent as all hell. So I will combat this problem with treating all of my water according to this page:
http://www.oregonbrewcrew.com/technique/water.html

and I will also try batch sparging - so I don't pull too much water through my grain. I think fly sparging was causing some problems/inconsistencies, so I thought Denny's batch sparging method with my 5 gallon cooler might help a bit.
Thanks - Travis
 

Bill Pierce (24.141.63.119)
Posted on Tuesday, December 23, 2003 - 09:51 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'm usually an advocate of leaving the brewing water alone, but the soft water of Portland may need some adjustment when brewing a dark beer such as a stout. A little calcium carbonate added to the mash might be a good thing.
 

Travis Adams (137.161.201.253)
Posted on Tuesday, December 23, 2003 - 10:17 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks Bill...
Travis

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