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Brews & Views Bulletin Board Service * Brews and Views Archive 2004 * Januray 20, 2004 * Benefits from quick chilling? < Previous Next >

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chumley (63.227.170.138)
Posted on Sunday, January 04, 2004 - 02:12 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

An hour ago I shut off the king kooker in the garage after boiling a Sam Adams clone lager for 90 minutes. It currently is -7°F outside. Earlier in the day, I had planned to lug my 7.5 gallon steel kettle filled with 5.5 gallons of hot wort from the garage, through my yard, and down the basement stairs to hook up with my wort chiller down in the basement sink.

But I ran into difficulties. I had hooked my garden hose to the hot water tap (I am using a former laundry area in my house for brewing where in the 1970s a washing machine was located) to clean some brewery items. When I transfered the hose back, I developed a leaky crack at the connection. It drips like a bugger, and to scrape together a means to capture the drips would be a major PITA (especially now, when Carlina is thumping the Cowgirls on TV downstairs) :) All other garden hoses are outside, stored away, and frozen like rocks.

So as an alternative plan, I decided to periodically stir the wort in the garage with a sanitized stainles stee spoon every half hour until I go to bed. In the morning when I get up, I will siphon the wort (hopefully chilled to 70°F after 15 hours in a below zero environment), into a carboy, pitch 4 packs of saflager yeast, and be done except for cleanup.

Does anyone see any flaws in this plan? I understand that the point of rapid wort chilling is to mainly get the wort throught the 90-120°F "danger zone" where bacteria thrive and multiply. I don't think there's many bacteria thriving in my -5°F garage right now. I also understand that it promotes better cold break, but I am hoping that through stirring in a whirlpool fashion with cold ambient air, I will get that over 16 hours.

Thoughts?
 

JimTanguay (206.63.252.209)
Posted on Sunday, January 04, 2004 - 02:24 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

AT -5 DEG I bet it will be frozen in 16 hours
 

Brandon Dachel (216.177.117.110)
Posted on Sunday, January 04, 2004 - 03:53 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

> Thoughts?

I think that I'm glad that I'm not the only one that doesn't care how cold it is outside when I want to brew.

Seriously though, I believe that slow cooling can cause DMS but I may be off. The fact that it's so cold outside IMO eliminates any chance of contamination. Then again, how cold does the inside of a freezer get?
 

chumley (63.227.170.9)
Posted on Sunday, January 04, 2004 - 04:25 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

>>how cold does the inside of a freezer get?

Mine, O°F.

Jim, no way will it be frozen in 16 hours. I tried this once many years ago (1994) before I bought a wort chiller (until then, I did extract patial boil brews or chilled in the laundry tub), and a kettle of wort left outside, covered, still registered 80°F the following morning 12 hours later. It is now four hours since I stopped the heat, have stirred it 5 times, yet the outside of the kettle is almost too hot to touch still.

The heat capacity of five gallons of fluid is an amazing thing.
 

chumley (63.227.170.9)
Posted on Sunday, January 04, 2004 - 04:26 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

P.S. to Mike Huss: Poor Cowgirls. :)
 

chumley (216.161.216.53)
Posted on Sunday, January 04, 2004 - 06:07 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Last data point before going to bed:

After swirling 7 times in 5 hours, the temperature of my wort has dropped to 90°F. So I'm pretty comfortable it will be at pitching temperature tomorrow.

I'll report the temp. and time tomorrow when I finish up.
 

JimTanguay (67.5.120.119)
Posted on Sunday, January 04, 2004 - 07:35 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hey, 5 hrs down to 90Deg. I still think you'll be frozen or close to it in 16 hrs. I just mashed and sparged my helles. Going to boil in the morning. extremely cold here too for Seattle about 19 degrees!!
 

Hophead (172.150.225.221)
Posted on Sunday, January 04, 2004 - 07:54 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'm with Jim, you will be well below 70 degrees in 16 hours... I'll go frozen too... What's the over-under?

It's almost down to 45 degrees here in Phoenix, and brrrrr, my heat pump is having a rough time.

Go Panthers...

ps As a datapoint, I put a keg, 15.5 gallons, at 70 degrees into a 0 degree freezer (dont ask), and it was slushy after 10 hours (and it was post-fermented). I think you may be onto an ice beer...

-7 degrees? MOVE.
 

Bill Pierce (24.141.63.119)
Posted on Sunday, January 04, 2004 - 03:22 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Slow chilling of the wort can increase DMS in the beer and can result in poor clarity. Note that I said *can*. You may be all right, chumley, as cold as the air temperature was.

Your cold air, unfortunately, is coming this way. It was 54 F here in southern Ontario yesterday. I've managed to ride my bike 100 miles since Christmas, but all that is soon to end, with the mercury forecast to plummet to near zero later in the week.
 

chumley (216.161.216.77)
Posted on Sunday, January 04, 2004 - 05:23 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Well, 15 hours later, I siphoned. Ambient air temperature currently -4°F (a warm snap :)). The wort was not frozen, but it must be damn close, as my dial thermometer was maxed out on the low end at 32°F. I think the stirring helped a lot in chilling it down.

The wort was brilliantly clear, and I had a huge amount of tan colored cold break material deposited on top of the hops in the bottom of the kettle. I even siphoned some of it on purpose at the end to ensure some food for the yeast.

I am going to wait until the wort warms up to 40°F before I pitch the yeast, so I don't shock the heck out of the little buggers.
 

Joe Alf (65.141.125.76)
Posted on Sunday, January 04, 2004 - 05:54 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Maybe we can work together a couple of posts here ,you guys can come down to balmy Florida and clean some kegs.
Joe
 

Chuck Denofrio (64.135.203.63)
Posted on Sunday, January 04, 2004 - 08:51 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Landing in West Palm the 15th. Keep the beer cold.
 

Bill R (198.81.26.14)
Posted on Monday, January 05, 2004 - 06:17 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

After it freezes into a solid mass you can put it back on the stove the next day heat it back up back up to pithing temp. Not a bad way to store it, bad guys don't have much of a chance in frozen wort, you have the coldbreak falling out,,
Just heat slowly back to pitching temp, don't stir, leave the cold break trub on the bottom.
 

chumley (199.92.192.126)
Posted on Monday, January 05, 2004 - 04:01 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So once the wort reached 40°F, I aerated it, pitched 4 packets of Saflager yeast, and hauled the 6.5 gallon glass carboy down to the basement.

This morning, I checked it before heading to work. No activity. The fermometer strip on the Sam Adams clone carboy reads 40°F, same as the schwarzbier carboy sitting next to it (it, too, has stopped showing activity). The ambient air temperature this morning when I got up was -21°F, so its not too surprising. Its supposed to warm up to 40°F by Wednesday, so I am hoping that will increase the cellar temperature to 46°F, which is what this yeast is rated to ferment at.
 

David Woods (63.95.170.150)
Posted on Monday, January 05, 2004 - 04:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hophead,
45F in Pheonix? Don't they close the schools for that? ;^)

David
 

Bill Pierce (24.141.63.119)
Posted on Monday, January 05, 2004 - 04:11 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

You're going to experience a long lag time (probably nearly 48 hours) if you pitched the yeast at 40 F. As long as you practiced good sanitation and the temperature is above 40 F I think you will be OK.
 

PalerThanAle (65.168.73.62)
Posted on Monday, January 05, 2004 - 04:28 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

>45F in Pheonix

Yeah, but it's a dry cold.

PTA
 

Mike Huss (24.123.94.154)
Posted on Monday, January 05, 2004 - 04:34 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks Chumley, I can almost sense some sympathy. Yeah Right.

Not to go too far off thread, but I'm stuck, I hate all four teams that are left in the NFC. Ah screw it, it's hockey season and my Av's are on a three game win streak! :)
 

chumley (199.92.192.126)
Posted on Monday, January 05, 2004 - 05:14 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

>>I hate all four teams that are left in the NFC

Ummm...out of curiosity, who does a Dallas Cowboy fan like in the NFC other than the Dallas Cowboys? I thought it was America's team against the world. Maybe teams you can always beat, like the Lions? :)
 

Mike Huss (24.123.94.154)
Posted on Monday, January 05, 2004 - 06:15 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hey, at least they can win big in Detroit. That's more than I can say about the Packers and the Rams!!

Personally I would have liked to see the Seahawks win, and not JUST because they were playing the Packers. I'd like to see a team that's been down forever like them do well. I have to admit I won't be cheering openly for them, that's against my better judgement, but I hope the Packers win this weekend due to the fact my contempt for the Iggles is greater than just about any team in the league next to the Skins.

At least you know they are America's Team. Stinkin' Packer fans around here keep trying to claim that name when everyone else in the world knows who the true America's Team is.
 

chumley (199.92.192.126)
Posted on Monday, January 05, 2004 - 06:19 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

>>my contempt for the Iggles is greater than just about any team in the league next to the Skins.

Now THAT'S what expect to hear from a Dallas fan! :)
 

Jim Keaveney (64.12.96.42)
Posted on Monday, January 05, 2004 - 06:23 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

As I sat down to watch the game, I wanted the cowboys to win so the iggles could smack the piss out of them next week. However, a strange phenomenon took over and I found myself heartily cheering for the Panthers.
 

Bill Pierce (24.141.63.119)
Posted on Monday, January 05, 2004 - 06:30 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Mostly it's fan arrogance that bothers me, the notion of rights to a dynasty or expectations of loyalty from those in other regions. I don't always agree with the policies of the national NFL office, but the goal of parity is a good one. Pete Rozelle's old statement about "on any given Sunday" makes for a healthy situation in terms of national interest. However, the lack of a team for so many years now in the Los Angeles area doesn't help.
 

Mike Huss (24.123.94.154)
Posted on Monday, January 05, 2004 - 06:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

And Chumley, I'd fully expect to hear the opposite from a good Iggles fan such as yourself!! Wait? Did I say "good"? There is no such thing as a "good" Iggles fan. How about "rabid"?

Bill, the NFL keeps talking about putting a team in LA, yet they don't do it. They used to have two teams and IMHO both of them left mainly due to lack of fan support. Well ok, Al Davis has other issues too, but you know what I mean. It's not like here in WI where there's nothing else to do during football season. There's ALWAYS something to do in LA! I just don't know if it's worth it to put a team out there since no one really cares.
 

PalerThanAle (65.168.73.62)
Posted on Monday, January 05, 2004 - 06:54 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I lit the 1940 cuban cigar at the start of the kick-off. I enjoyed it all they way to 51 seconds left in the 4th quarter (right around 3 hours). $30 bought me a super fine cigar, use of a leather wing back chair, elk bbq sandwiches, jambalaya, 23 year old cuban sippin' rum, and use of a beer bar that was on the honor system (you take what you want, when you want and pay for it when you leave). I could have been watching the Seahawks play the Vikings, but..... ahhh life is good.

PTA
 

chumley (199.92.192.126)
Posted on Monday, January 05, 2004 - 06:54 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

>>I'd fully expect to hear the opposite from a good Iggles fan such as yourself

Can't we all get along and be friends? :) There is some commonality amongst us - I despise the Redskins too.

I'm suprise that you didn't mention the Giants as well. I suppose you are forced to admire the Giants now, since you have Coach Tuna. And, Lawrence Taylor and Michael Irvin share the same predilections.

Remember all those Dallas Cowboy jokes a few years ago?

What do you call a drug ring in Dallas?
A huddle.

Four Dallas Cowboys in a car, who's driving?
The police.

Why can't Michael Irvin get into a huddle on the field anymore?
It is a parole violation for him to associate with known felons.

Doctors say because of Michael Irvin's broken clavicle, it will be 6-8 weeks before he can videotape a teammate having sex.

I understand Chicago is trying to sign Michael Irvin. They got rid of the refrigerator, so now they want a Coke machine.

The Dallas newspapers reported yesterday that Texas Stadium is going to take out the artificial turf because the cowboys play better on "grass."

The Dallas Cowboys adopted a new "Honor System" -
"Yes, Your Honor; No, Your Honor".

The Cowboys had a 12 and 5 season this year, 12 arrests, 5 convictions.

The Cowboys knew they had to do something for their defense, so they hired a new defensive coordinator: Johnny Cochran

How do the Dallas Cowboys spend their first week at spring training?
Studying the Miranda Rights.
 

Jim Keaveney (64.12.96.42)
Posted on Monday, January 05, 2004 - 07:34 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

the amount of hatred for a division rival is directly proportional to the success of that team. the boys dropped almost off the radar for iggles fans. good to have them back. it is a compliment to the iggles that cowboys fans hate the birds the most.
 

Mike Huss (24.123.94.154)
Posted on Monday, January 05, 2004 - 07:57 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Jim, then why do I hate the Skins so? They stink worse than a chicken farm in the middle of August!!

But yes, in all honesty, I agree. Hence the reason Packer fans hate the Cowboys but most Cowboys fans other than me really couldn't care less about the Packers. The Iggles have been doing well so we Cowboys fans are force to hate them that much more than usual.

Speaking of the Iggles, when is the annual collapse coming? This week or next?
 

Jim Keaveney (64.12.96.42)
Posted on Wednesday, January 07, 2004 - 02:40 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

"Speaking of the Iggles, when is the annual collapse coming? This week or next? "

Not sure, but i know it will be sometime after the cowboys collapsed!

with free agency and the salary cap, i think the dynasty days are over. any of the teams still standing can win this year. the afc looks especially scary.
 

Mike Huss (24.123.94.154)
Posted on Wednesday, January 07, 2004 - 03:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ok, you got me there. And boy, did they ever collapse! It's really unfortunate that they chose the playoffs to play their worst game of the year, next to maybe Thanksgiving. Well, ok, unfortunate for the Cowboys and us fans, I know the rest of you are loving it.

GO COLTS!!

Personally I think it's going to be all about the Patriots this year. I hope not, but they just look too good. They seem to be a step ahead of everyone else.
 

chumley (199.92.192.126)
Posted on Wednesday, January 07, 2004 - 03:58 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hey, I thought this thread was about my cold wort. Hijackers! :)

Believe it or not, I am definitely seeing some fermentation activity at 40°F, albeit very slow. I now have about a 1/4-inch of finely beaded krausen on the surface of the beer.

Yesterday morning, it was -28°F. This morning, it was only 0°F. I am hoping that this warming trend continues, though its kind of cool to have my whole basement being one great big giant lagering room.
 

Mike Huss (24.123.94.154)
Posted on Wednesday, January 07, 2004 - 04:13 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Wow, I thought it was cold here. It was 5 below yesterday morning. 7 above today, it's a heat wave!!!

I really should be trying some lagers, my garage is right around 40 right now. Actually, my beer fridge's thermostat is shot so it's running around 30 right now (yes, my temp controller is on it's way) so instead of serving ales that are way too cold out of it I should pull them out, just leave 'em in the garage for serving, and make a lager! It's a little cool, but it's close!

Of course that's probably a bad idea since we are in Wisconsin and next week it will probably be 50 and raining. Our weather's just too unpredictable not to use temp controls.

Bah, who needs lagers anyway, give me my grapefruity hoppy ales any day!!

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