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Brews & Views Bulletin Board Service * Brews and Views Archive 2004 * March 02, 2004 * I know someone out there has frame design for an AG system < Previous Next >

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Kris Featheringham (69.140.56.114)
Posted on Monday, February 16, 2004 - 04:48 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I am going to start building the frame that houses my AG system. It has 3 tiers and uses kegs for all three phases. I plan to have burners at the HLT, mash tun, and Boiling stages. Any suggestions for the design of the frame would be appreciated
 

Walt Fischer (24.221.196.114)
Posted on Monday, February 16, 2004 - 07:04 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

RedBarnBrewing is who i copied...
But then I went insane...;>
Lama Brewery

Walt
 

TexanBrewer (63.174.45.1)
Posted on Monday, February 16, 2004 - 01:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Here are mine:
http://www.texanbrew.com/index.php?topic=stand

---
Scott
http://texanbrew.com
 

Belly Buster Bob (142.177.95.156)
Posted on Monday, February 16, 2004 - 03:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

el cheapo
www.bellybuster.noadweb.com
 

Andrew Pearce (68.225.195.30)
Posted on Monday, February 16, 2004 - 04:12 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Kris,
I guess it depends on what materials you're using. If you're putting together a steel frame, you might use something like this:
http://www.totalaccessibility.com/beer/beerstand.gif
It's the right size for 3 converted kegs.
 

scott jackson (209.107.56.130)
Posted on Monday, February 16, 2004 - 04:38 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

For the cheap metal version, you can use this:

http://kroc.org/DesktopDefault.aspx?tabindex=6&tabid=15

Works especially good if you don't know how to weld.
 

Bill Pierce (24.141.129.137)
Posted on Monday, February 16, 2004 - 04:53 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Wire rack shelving such as scott uses is available from stores specializing in storage solutions and accessories. It is also commonly used in restaurants and food service establishments; you might be able to find lower prices (occasionally on used equipment) at a commercial restaurant supplier. Another possibility is perforated metal shelving systems sold at home centers. These are alternatives for those who don't have welders or want to build racks that can be more easily disassembled.
 

cheesehead (134.84.5.50)
Posted on Monday, February 16, 2004 - 05:21 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Question of the metal shelving.

Is it safe/sturdy enough to heat the stuff? The burner on Scott's system is under the racking. Will that degrade the rack over time?
 

Bill Pierce (24.141.129.137)
Posted on Monday, February 16, 2004 - 06:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Use a Sawzall to cut away the portion of the rack directly above the burner, making the diameter of the hole slightly smaller than that of the kettle.
 

Kris Featheringham (69.140.56.114)
Posted on Monday, February 16, 2004 - 07:13 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I would think that that would take a lot away from the strength... but then again, I've had a few Homebrews in the last couple hours, so my knowledge of mechanical structures could be altered all so slightly.
 

scott jackson (209.107.56.130)
Posted on Tuesday, February 17, 2004 - 12:35 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I have used my system for over 2 years (40+ batches) and the shelves are still holding up. If one has to be replaced it only costs $12. Normally the chrome shelving withstands more weight, and is more espensive, but again, the black shelving I used is holding up fine. The shelving can probably be found on the internet for a cheaper price that I paid (at Organized Living) but this was something I needed to see and feel in person to know what pieces I wanted.
 

Bob McCouch (68.81.62.77)
Posted on Tuesday, February 17, 2004 - 02:25 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I took a cue from Scott and basically ripped off his design after he emailed me some pics in 2002... ;-)

http://www.mccouch.com/pictures/index.php?Qwd=./Brewing&Qiv=thumbs&Qis=O

I've had this rig for about 16 months, and besides a little surface rust on the wires where the coating burned off the shelves, it's awesome.

I was a little concerned about how the wires started to warp after numerous heating cycles, so I did this:
http://www.mccouch.com/pictures/index.php?Qwd=./Brewing/10-May-03&Qif=DSCF0010.JPG&Qiv=thumbs&Qis=O

Now the boil kettle is solid as a rock, and the other kettles will be once I cut some more angle.
 

Belly Buster Bob (142.177.112.182)
Posted on Tuesday, February 17, 2004 - 03:04 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Bob...those 90Deg elbow orifices you have on your burners, did they come with them or are they buyable after?? I really need new ones before rebuilding
 

Pat Babcock (136.1.1.33)
Posted on Tuesday, February 17, 2004 - 01:09 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I wanted a system that allowed me to use pump or gravity, and still allowed me to pull the kegs and burners for brewing on the road w/o the rack.

What I did was get a bunch of galvanized angle steel and some expanded metal. Built the frame with nuts and bolts, then, when it was as I wanted it, welded all of the joints. Then, I cut and welded the expanded metal on each riser. A piece of flat stock was welded across the center of each shelf before welding in the expanded metal. With this design, I can place Cajun Cookers on it, and take them off any time I want. Plus, it has proven strong enough to support the three full 15.5 gal kettles.

I dimensioned it such that the legs of the Cajuns fall onto the angle steel when on the rack, though I have positioned them without this consideration, and the rack held up. The height was set from the top of a 7 gallon fermenter - the lowest tier is set so that the spigot on the kettle is at the proper level to allow filling of the fermenter. Each subsequent tier was set so that faucet on the higher kettle is above the lip of the lower kettle.

One of the nicer things about using a welded rack such as this is that I was able to mount piezo ingniters to each burner, button on the stand, and haven't lost a single knuckle hair since!

There're a few pictures of it in use at http://hbd.org/eventcam/000713/. Sorry, but I can't locate any pictures of just the rack at the moment.

If I had it to do all over again, I'd probably use unistrut instead of the angle steel, and I'd put the beast on wheels - not that a tower tha large would be safe to wheel around when full, but it would ease cleanup to be able to move the beast easily...
 

Bob McCouch (68.81.62.77)
Posted on Tuesday, February 17, 2004 - 01:19 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

BBB,
Those 90* guys came on my burners. One burner came off a turkey frier kit I bought way back when I started AG brewing. The other two (on the MT and kettle) are from that "other" B3, MoreBeer!
 

scott jackson (209.107.56.130)
Posted on Tuesday, February 17, 2004 - 05:17 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I might add that I took the 90 degree elbows off my burners and replaced them with straight ones from morebeer.com. It made it easier for me to use the single black iron pipe for gas. However, out of all the people I have seen use the wire shelving, no two have hooked up the gas the same way.

Bob, the angle iron is a good idea. Its cheaper than buying a new $12 shelf.
 

ELK (67.164.195.57)
Posted on Wednesday, February 18, 2004 - 12:14 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Every time I see that shelving at Costco I think about you BOB. But they only sell the 4' wide chrome ones. I have one of them for storage.
 

Bob McCouch (68.81.62.77)
Posted on Wednesday, February 18, 2004 - 12:55 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I have several for storage as well, ELK, but my favorite one is the one out back... ;-)

Scott- The nice thing about the angle is that it moves all the weight to the strongest part of the shelf. I feel a little more confident about running the burners full bore now. I could even cut the wires over the burners if I wanted, but I haven't felt the need.

For the HLT and MT, I bought some 1" x 1/2" x 1/8" thick C-channel, thinking it might be a slightly better surface for the kettles to rest on. I've been meaning to borrow an angle grinder to cut the stuff, as it would take forever with my Dremel.
 

John McElver (172.173.101.123)
Posted on Wednesday, February 18, 2004 - 01:38 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

For whatever it's worth, I found it better to have a seperate boil kettle stand, as I could put the rest of the system away while the boil was on. Before, I was boiling on the stand with the HLT and mash tun cleaned out and sitting on the garage floor, waiting to be put away.

My stand is constructed of SuperStrut (the Unistrut look-alike sold at the Home Depot or Lowes). I over-engineered WAY to much. It has the heavier stuff for the highest point in the system and weighs a bit more than it needs to. Still, I do like it.

JohnMc

http://members.aol.com/jmcelver/htmstuff/maltose.htm
 

Tom Meier (144.228.85.98)
Posted on Wednesday, February 18, 2004 - 03:54 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I made mine out of 1x1x1/8 angle iron, it only weighs about 60-70 lbs with the burners and can hold 3 full kegs with only 1/8" deflection in the frame. I had a structural engineer homebrewer run it through a stress analysis program.

Don't have a formal webpage, but a 3-D autoCAD drawing, parts list, rendered drawing, and a digital pic of the frame is here:
http://personal.atl.bellsouth.net/m/e/meier331/Brewstand/

If you go this route, I can tell you the absolute best way to do it is to form two identical layers of angle iron in a box frame patter, and weld in 6 columns and cross bar keg supports after the fact.

For the box frame you should cope the angles so that they lap together. 45 cuts are a B1TCH to get right and weld up. Please take my advice on this, it will cut labor by 50%.

The angles lap together, so that you can make 1 quick weld. Hard to explain but I will try.. picture you a looking down on top of the framed box, the angle iron running left to right gets a square notched out of each end so that the angle 'butting in' to it can sit flush on the remaining 'tab' left on the end of the angle. To do this, this 'butting in' angle iron will have to have its vertical leg coped slightly to fit flush with the 'tab'

Then you can make one quick weld, Y-axis, Z-axis, and X-axis, and it is really strong.

By a similiar process, you can add in the cross bar supports for the burners, just cope them out to fit, and weld in.

Trust me, do not cut and weld 45 degree angles.

If I had designed my setup that way, the labor would have been about 4 hours, but it was 8 as designed.

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