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Brews & Views Bulletin Board Service * Brews and Views Archive 2004 * Archive through December 31, 2004 * Non-alcoholic homebrew < Previous Next >

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Grover S. Sauter III
New Member
Username: Totoroiii

Post Number: 5
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Wednesday, December 22, 2004 - 12:57 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I am into brewing non-alcoholic homebrews...I do this by cooking off the alcohol before bottling or kegging at 180deg. for 3 hours...has anyone heard of a different way?
 

Jonathan Koehler
Junior Member
Username: Santium

Post Number: 36
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Wednesday, December 22, 2004 - 02:56 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I haven't heard of another way, but I'm interested in how your finished product has turned out in the past. I'll assume it leaves a little to be desired, hence the post about other methods.

Jonathan
 

Belly Buster Bob
Senior Member
Username: Canman

Post Number: 1938
Registered: 02-2003
Posted on Wednesday, December 22, 2004 - 11:43 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I don't get it.......
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 1566
Registered: 01-2002
Posted on Wednesday, December 22, 2004 - 02:30 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

This question is asked periodically. Brewing non-alcoholic beer is even more problematic for the homebrewer than for the major breweries, who, as is obvious from the product, are not greatly successful at it.

The problem is that ethanol is one of the major flavor components of beer. Removing it changes the flavor considerably. Moreover, it is an essential product of yeast metabolism. There are strains that produce less alcohol, but they also result in rather different flavors. The residual sugars in the beer are different as well.

You are correct that much of the alcohol can be removed by slowly and carefully heating the beer, because ethanol has a different boiling point (78.3 C or 173 F) than water. However, doing so also drives off many of the volatile flavor components and results in a "dull" product.

The bottom line is that non-alcoholic beer is a rather poor imitation of the real thing. But you are free to pursue this if you are willing to make the considerable compromises in flavor that result.

My own opinion is that a more realizable goal is to produce a low-alcohol (1-2 percent by volume) beer with at least some semblance of real beer flavor.
 

Craig Henry
Member
Username: Sail

Post Number: 108
Registered: 04-2003
Posted on Wednesday, December 22, 2004 - 02:38 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

My first thought was that this was absolute blasphemy but lets face it cooking off the alcohol for 3 hours shows some serious dedication to the cause...

A few options - minimize fermentation or fermentables and therefore alcohol content, simmer liquid or freeze and remove alcohol

Try this for more info -
http://home.elp.rr.com/brewbeer/files/low_alc.html
 

Stephen Manchester
Member
Username: Smanches

Post Number: 138
Registered: 06-2004
Posted on Wednesday, December 22, 2004 - 04:02 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I know this would be a lot of work, but can't you use a centrifuge to seperate the alcohol?
 

John K. Lee
Intermediate Member
Username: Newoldrunk

Post Number: 483
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, December 22, 2004 - 04:49 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

here's another one from BYO.
http://byo.com/feature/66.html
-J.K.L.
 

Miker
Member
Username: Miker

Post Number: 113
Registered: 02-2003
Posted on Wednesday, December 22, 2004 - 07:35 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I thought Non-alcoholic beer was an oxymoron like Military Intelligence, Reagan's Memoirs, and Microsoft Works.
 

Grover S. Sauter III
New Member
Username: Totoroiii

Post Number: 6
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Wednesday, December 22, 2004 - 11:38 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I have had success with stouts, porters, and brown ales....I have not tried it with lighter beers like ipa's...I have also fooled homebrewers with my "broken" homebrew and some have placed in my local comp.
 

Dan Listermann
Advanced Member
Username: Listermann

Post Number: 807
Registered: 03-2004
Posted on Thursday, December 23, 2004 - 03:37 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Miller makes non alcoholic beer by allowing the yeast to just go through the aerobic stage and crash cooling it. They filter out the yeast. I suppose the OG is rather low and it is cut with deareated water before bottling. It seems that a lot of the flavors that say "beer" are produced in the aerobic stage. I don't believe they have to remove alcohol this way as so little is produced.

Dan Listermann
 

Fredrik
Senior Member
Username: Fredrik

Post Number: 1905
Registered: 03-2003
Posted on Thursday, December 30, 2004 - 10:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I tried a commercial german so called non-alcoholic beer today. However it contains 0.45 vol% alcohol.

Clausthaler Classic (pils like beer)

According the the manufacturer these are the specs

OE 7.1P
RE 5.3P

This is (normally) not consistent with the low alcohol the specify, so I suspect they either ferment from OG 1.028 to 1.019 and then remove some of the alcohol by some method, or they are manipulating the fermentation somehow to increase the biomass yield and thus give less alcohol.

As per my ballpark estimates, if they could get the biomass yield up to some 37 % rather than the normal would give 0.45 % alcohol. My guess is that would probably include a massive pitching rate and stirred fermentation.

The beer is not watery, rather it tastes and smells pretty much like diluted low hopped wort. I found it a bit sweet. Drinkable (no off flavours:-), but not very good.

According to their webpage www.clausthaler.de it contains nontrivial levels of fermentable sugars, so I am not sure if they stop the fermentation, or add it afterwards. A normal fermentation with a normal strain should not leave these residuals.

/Fredrik
 

michael atkins
Junior Member
Username: Mga

Post Number: 34
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Thursday, December 30, 2004 - 11:34 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Love this hobby----Why bother?

mga
 

michael atkins
Junior Member
Username: Mga

Post Number: 35
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Thursday, December 30, 2004 - 11:43 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Love this hobby----Why bother?

mga
 

Paul Muth
Junior Member
Username: Pjmuth

Post Number: 67
Registered: 10-2002
Posted on Friday, December 31, 2004 - 12:36 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Grover,
You could try this: (It requires some equipment, patients and experimentation)

Place your brew in a container and bring it to 'blood temperature'. Connect this container to another using 1/4" copper tubing. The tubing should go from the head space of the first to the bottom of the second. Draw a serious vacuum on the apparatus from the second container and also super chill the second container. (Use a crushed ice/water slurry and rock salt) The alcohol will be drawn from your brew in short order. Be very sure to throw out the alcohol so you do not violate the 'law'.

Trust me - it works..!!

(Ok..... - I know - Why should you? I'll get over it.. lol..)

PJ
 

Fredrik
Senior Member
Username: Fredrik

Post Number: 1906
Registered: 03-2003
Posted on Friday, December 31, 2004 - 08:38 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I have to correct myself as I am toying with a low alcohol receipe and noticed a mistake while calculating on the clausthaler.

On the Clausthaler, I forgot the protein contents, which is part of the residual extract.

The correct RE is thus 5.7P (0.4P proteins)

7.1P -> 5.7P and arrive at around 0.9% alcohol.

/Fredrik
 

Ian Glomski
New Member
Username: Iglomski

Post Number: 9
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Friday, December 31, 2004 - 10:47 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Here is a response to Stephan's question about centrifugation.

No, you can't separate alcohol from water mixtures using a centrifuge.

For centrifugation to separate different components of a mixture, the individual components must be either insoluable or have a greater abillity to "stick" to a substance other than the water, such as to other alcohol molecules or some other substance with a different density than water. Technically, I think you can pull off the removal of alcohol from water by adding an organic solvent... but I can't think of an organic solvent I would want to put in my beer.

The truth is, water and alcohol are 100% miscible and love interacting with each other at the molecular level, so they are pretty tough to separate.

Ian
 

Stephen Manchester
Member
Username: Smanches

Post Number: 149
Registered: 06-2004
Posted on Friday, December 31, 2004 - 04:18 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I wasn't sure how close alcohol and water were. Or how different they had to be for a centrifuge to work. Now I know. Thanks!
 

Joel Gallihue
Member
Username: Gallibrew

Post Number: 122
Registered: 02-2003
Posted on Friday, December 31, 2004 - 09:03 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Pauls idea sounds very geeky and fun. I'm thinking a Rainbow vac w/ two modified kegs would do the trick. 98F uses less propane than Grover's 180F method. Probably kinder to flavors. Not sure what should be done with that, "waste product." :-)

I've had Grover's NA stout and I swear I thought it was regular beer. I think dark beers work better. Also think you need to increase flavor components going into the beer to compensate for stripping of flavor from de-alcoholization.

Jokes aside, we all know someone who drinks an NA beer now and then. I switched to NA for fishing trips (O'Douls Amber), cuz my brother doesn't drink anymore.

Don't we all drink beer for the flavor and read Playboy for the articles?

Joel