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Brews & Views Bulletin Board Service * Brews and Views Archive 2005 * Archive through June 27, 2005 * FWIW Simple software utility to guestimate FG < Previous Next >

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Fredrik
Senior Member
Username: Fredrik

Post Number: 2336
Registered: 03-2003
Posted on Wednesday, June 22, 2005 - 11:31 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I thought I could as well post this simple exe with the fermentability estimates implemented I have referred to in a few posts and posted formulas on. It's not much, but for those who aren't spread sheets gurus and here is a little something to toy with.

It's a simple Visul Basic app, if you've got all the common windows and VB runtime libs and stuff on the PC it should run right off so I made no install package.

Even if you don't know exactly what RDFW and MTW values our wort has, it is IMO still useful as it gives at least a hint of where how big impact the wort vs yeast may have under normal circumstances.

For any given grain bill, crush and mash scheduele, RDFW and MTW are given. I have no formula atm to estimate that, but I rely on data from previous batches + some guesswork. So in principle, the receipe + mashing scheduele is the basis for guessing RDFW and MTW. This formula can actually be used to estimate the values in retrospect if ou have decent faith in your fermentation. This is what I do. Not perfect but way better than nothing.

I'm using custom math, so the RE and EtOH may differ marginally from other software, becuase this has to do with the biomass yield anyway and is just an estimate.


application/octet-stream
FWIWFG_estimator.exe (49.2 k)


/Fredrik
 

Fredrik
Senior Member
Username: Fredrik

Post Number: 2337
Registered: 03-2003
Posted on Wednesday, June 22, 2005 - 11:33 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

It may have some issues on language and decimal handling. If so, let me know. I have only tested it on my Pc.

/Fredrik
 

Doug Pescatore
Senior Member
Username: Doug_p

Post Number: 1413
Registered: 10-2002
Posted on Wednesday, June 22, 2005 - 03:40 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Great....I can see the threads now.
"My FG estimating software said my FG should be 1.010 but my beer has been at 1.013 for 7 days. Can someone please tell me how to deal with a Stuck Fermentation?"

-Doug
 

Fredrik
Senior Member
Username: Fredrik

Post Number: 2338
Registered: 03-2003
Posted on Wednesday, June 22, 2005 - 05:19 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Just a note on the tool, it wont deal with stuck ferments caused by severely unhealthy fermentations, nor does it cover overattenuation caused by infections or "special" strains - this is a different story, and much more complicated.

But it can help out when troublshooting and tweaking receipes, and estimating FG for normal reasonably healthy fermentations.

Like, suppose I add 10% sucrose to a given and proven receipe, exactly how much does FG drop?

Suppose I change from a high to a low attenuator for an "otherwise" proven receipe, how much higher can I expect the FG to be?

/Fredrik
 

Fredrik
Senior Member
Username: Fredrik

Post Number: 2339
Registered: 03-2003
Posted on Wednesday, June 22, 2005 - 05:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

In case the unlikely event that someone would try this :-)

If it doesn't run, installing the VB runtime libs should help.

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=7b9ba261-7a9c-43e7-9117 -f673077ffb3c&displaylang=en

/Fredrik
 

Belly Buster Bob
Senior Member
Username: Canman

Post Number: 2369
Registered: 02-2003
Posted on Wednesday, June 22, 2005 - 09:10 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'm all over it
Bellybuster Bob
www.bellybuster.netfirms.com
 

Chumley
Senior Member
Username: Chumley

Post Number: 3306
Registered: 02-2003
Posted on Wednesday, June 22, 2005 - 11:07 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I smell a virus...who is this "/Fredrik", anyway?
 

Fredrik
Senior Member
Username: Fredrik

Post Number: 2342
Registered: 03-2003
Posted on Thursday, June 23, 2005 - 06:06 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yeah, it could be the well known and widely feared "spread sheet virus". I've heard it fills out your harddrive with nonsense spreadsheets containing colorfull yet uselss pie charts and ballpark estimates that applies only to imaginary cases.

Why take chances :-)

/Fredrik
 

Chumley
Senior Member
Username: Chumley

Post Number: 3309
Registered: 02-2003
Posted on Thursday, June 23, 2005 - 02:54 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I only ask because when I tried to run it, Windows thought it was bugged.

I ran a virus scan on it, and it was clean.

So I tried to run it. All I got was an error message saying "Component MSCHRT20.OCX or one of its dependicies not correctly registered, a file is missing or invalid"

Its too complicated for the common man.
 

Fredrik
Senior Member
Username: Fredrik

Post Number: 2346
Registered: 03-2003
Posted on Thursday, June 23, 2005 - 03:12 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Oh I see. Dang I forgot that. MSCHRT20.OCX is for the little piechart and itsn't part of the VB libs.

I'll fix that later.

/Fredrik
 

Fredrik
Senior Member
Username: Fredrik

Post Number: 2347
Registered: 03-2003
Posted on Thursday, June 23, 2005 - 04:53 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

(I haven't put much time into the software at all, it comes with NO error handling etc. I only tested it on winMe and win2000.)

Anyway, here is an install package, but now it got bigger so I didn't want to upload it here, so it's on my webpage.

http://hem.bredband.net/frerad/beer/modelling/downloads/FWIWFG_estimator.zip

/Fredrik
 

Doug Pescatore
Senior Member
Username: Doug_p

Post Number: 1418
Registered: 10-2002
Posted on Thursday, June 23, 2005 - 05:02 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Pretty impressive......7 of 11 posts where from Fredrik. Nearly 64%

-Doug
 

Fredrik
Senior Member
Username: Fredrik

Post Number: 2348
Registered: 03-2003
Posted on Thursday, June 23, 2005 - 05:11 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Though the power of it is really when you link it to your receipe sheet. Otherwise you have to manually shove numbers in between.

Example:

Suppose you've got a proven procedure that gives you 1.064 / 1.015 with a high attenuating strain.

All you want is to "scale down" the grainbill a factor (1-x) without changes and add x% sugar, in order to have the beer goto 1.012. The task is to find x.

First.
1.064 / 1.015 gives RDFW ~ 63%

The goal is
1.064 / 1.012 gives RDFW ~ 67%

Since this is now not linked to our receipe sheet (when this would have been automatically adjusted for) we write this equaiton

67% = (1-x)*63% + x*100%

(67% is our target, 63% is what we have, 100% is the RDFW of sucrose)

Solving for x gives x = (67-63)/(100-63) ~ 11%

This means, scale down your original grain bill to 89% and add 11% sucrose

Note that it's 11% of the *wort_extract* ie accounting for the effiency, not the weight of the grains. For example 5 gallons of 1.064 (15.7P) contains

5*3.785*1.064*0.157 kg extract, 11% of this is 348 grams of sugar.

This is one but example of the intended usage. I don't know who the heck I would make receipes without it. Any reasonable use of it, is ot have your receipe sheet sum up RDFW and MTW automatically, that's what I do. But I made this tool just for illustration.

/Fredrik

(Message edited by fredrik on June 23, 2005)