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Brews & Views Bulletin Board Service * Brews and Views Archive 2006 * Archive through July 19, 2006 * Please post your starter techniques... < Previous Next >

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Tim Pratt
Intermediate Member
Username: Timca

Post Number: 400
Registered: 02-2003
Posted From: 199.88.72.3
Posted on Friday, July 14, 2006 - 12:15 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

After reading “Designing Grate Beers” I am concerned about my pitching rate. What do you do and what is your estimated cell count. I pitch one vile into 1000 or 2000 ml of wort, aerate with O2 and let sit at 70F for 1 to 5 days. I have no clue how many cells I get from this……

Thanks
Tim
 

Dan Listermann
Senior Member
Username: Listermann

Post Number: 3062
Registered: 03-2004
Posted From: 66.13.7.104
Posted on Friday, July 14, 2006 - 12:45 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Have you noticed any problems with your beers?

Dan

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MacGregor Outkast
Junior Member
Username: Macgregor

Post Number: 82
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 24.249.73.221
Posted on Friday, July 14, 2006 - 12:51 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

brett. infections perhaps?
 

Dan Listermann
Senior Member
Username: Listermann

Post Number: 3064
Registered: 03-2004
Posted From: 66.13.7.104
Posted on Friday, July 14, 2006 - 12:53 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Clockwork.

Dan

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Curt Kroger
New Member
Username: Curtbrews

Post Number: 20
Registered: 04-2006
Posted From: 66.117.231.105
Posted on Friday, July 14, 2006 - 01:32 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

4-5 oz (3/4cup) malt to 1000L water gives 1.030 average starter. I do not do yeast counts so I do not know how many cells I have per cubic mm. Incidentally, I work in a hospital lab and do cell counts with a hemocytometer all the time.

I do know my beer tastes good. I have my how to make a starter under the Fermentation button on my website. You can see my cool 2000L mason jar.
www.home.fuse.net/kroger
 

ChriSto
Junior Member
Username: Christo

Post Number: 56
Registered: 02-2006
Posted From: 216.176.226.154
Posted on Friday, July 14, 2006 - 03:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

It depends on how big your beer is going to be. For something w/ O.G. below 1.060, then a 1000-2000 ml starter , IMHO, is OK. Its a good idea to ramp up for really big beers, though.
 

Flobey
Junior Member
Username: Flobey

Post Number: 46
Registered: 06-2004
Posted From: 66.56.19.164
Posted on Friday, July 14, 2006 - 06:18 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Check out Jamil's pitching rate calculater at:

http://www.mrmalty.com/pitching.php
 

Zack
New Member
Username: Soverythirsty

Post Number: 13
Registered: 04-2006
Posted From: 71.245.237.104
Posted on Friday, July 14, 2006 - 07:58 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

4oz DME into pyrex, 800ml warm water on top, swirl and bring to boil.

Ice bath until cold, O2 to oversaturation (the bubbles coming out of solution on the other side of the flask; less than a minute), pitch, stir plate (the most important part).

You'll see the starter go from dark to light (as the yeast multiplies), then when fermentation is complete you'll see particulate matter (the yeast clumping together as it flocculates). 2 days.

Leave on stir plate until needed (I've had no trouble after a week) or stop and let settle for a few minutes, decant beer, and add fresh cooled wort.

Fermcap or a similar surfactant will go a long way.
 

Zack
New Member
Username: Soverythirsty

Post Number: 14
Registered: 04-2006
Posted From: 71.245.237.104
Posted on Friday, July 14, 2006 - 08:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

hey, make a stir plate with an old CPU fan, cell phone charger, and some magnets. Total cost should be under $5.

Use a 6V power supply on the 12V fan to slow the speed to a proper level for a gentle stir.
 

Ned Buntline
Member
Username: Ned_buntline

Post Number: 189
Registered: 12-2005
Posted From: 71.248.246.150
Posted on Friday, July 14, 2006 - 08:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Slant innoculation to 10 ml wort - 10 ml fermenting wort to 30 ml wort - 30 ml fermenting wort to 500 ml wort on stir plate - 500 ml fermenting wort to 2000 ml wort on stir plate - pitch to 6 gallons wort.

Number of viable yeast cells: I have no idea.

It bubbles. It finishes low. It tastes good.
 

Fredrik
Senior Member
Username: Fredrik

Post Number: 3253
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 213.114.44.200
Posted on Friday, July 14, 2006 - 09:09 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

> What do you do and what is your estimated cell
> count.

I occasionally do microscope counts, but unless I am specifically investigating exact pitching rates ballpark gusstimates satisfy my basic tracking needs. There's more to it than just count anyway. Aeration and growth methods are significant factors aside with the exact pitching rate.

> I pitch one vile into 1000 or 2000 ml of
> wort, aerate with O2 and let sit at 70F for 1
> to 5 days. I have no clue how many cells I get
> from this……

It varies, but as a basic "default" gusstimate I'd use that 1000 ml 10P wort gives you approximately 80 billion new cells, 2000 ml 10P wort 160 billion new cells etc.

This is as per a standard 5% biomass yield. But it also varies with cell mass (ie the number of cells you have for a give biomass, which is both strain dependent and growth method dependent)

As for the final count, add the original count of the vial. My LHBS don't carry white labs but their website claims a vial is 30-60 billion cells. But someone on here claimed the information on their site is outdated. If that is the case or not I have no idea.

My recent personal experimenting is towards lower pitching rates. I have noticed repeatedly that with good preparations and aeration, the 1 million/ml/P is quite alot, as it seems to me, more than is technically necessary at all times when using fresh yeast.

/Fredrik