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Brews & Views Bulletin Board Service * Brews and Views Archive 2006 * Archive through October 26, 2006 * Effects of under pitching < Previous Next >

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brett matthews
Member
Username: Brettj

Post Number: 135
Registered: 06-2004
Posted From: 124.150.113.46
Posted on Tuesday, October 10, 2006 - 09:00 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I was talking to fellow brewer today at the LHBS and he suggested that underpitching and the subsequent stressing of the yeast can cause medicinal/chemical like phenolics. He's previously worked at a pretty good micro and seems to know his stuff.
 

Fredrik
Senior Member
Username: Fredrik

Post Number: 3429
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 62.20.8.114
Posted on Tuesday, October 10, 2006 - 12:44 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I never heard specifically of it, but who knows. It would be reasonable to ask him if he can provide an explanation, or at least explain how he arrived at that conclusion. Maybe he has some interesting ideas.

But just to speculate, the phenolic gene (PAD1) is involved in a yeast stress response to phenylacrylic acids. Tests have shown that cells lacking this gene are more stressed, and get show reduced growth when these acids are in the media. So in this respect, a specific stress in this case is probably inducing formation of the phenolics.

It wouldn't rule out that there might be a cross dynamics from the general stress response (STRE) to this gene. There is a good logic behind having the general stress responses also tuned up sensitivty of specific responses when the cell is under higher total stress.

But still... I never heard of it... but there is a first time to everything so who knows.

Cross regulation in various stress is common. I never tried to do any specific litterature search on this link though. But at least, the possibility is open until the truth is found.

Other semi-coordinated stress tolerances are osmotic stress, salt stress, heat stress and oxidative stress. Sterols and UFAs are players in all these responses.

/Fredrik
 

Skotrat
Senior Member
Username: Skotrat

Post Number: 2275
Registered: 04-2003
Posted From: 24.128.118.170
Posted on Tuesday, October 10, 2006 - 01:31 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Fredrik,

You have been speculating all over the place lately...

Time for you to get back in the lab and post some facts...

I personally speculate that you could ver well be wrong but since we are just speculating; WHO KNOWS
"Anger is a Gift"
 

Fredrik
Senior Member
Username: Fredrik

Post Number: 3430
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 62.20.8.114
Posted on Tuesday, October 10, 2006 - 01:56 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Skot, I will post facts when I find them.

I regret not having any facts on this, but the journey to facts is invariably accompanied by speculation and contemplation :-)

So as a first ignorant, I speculate. Speculations OTOH aren't the same thing as throwing dice. After all it's a selective guesswork, aimed to narrow down the possible truth. Usually it is much more effetive that playing dice.

So what are your facts on this Skot? :-) Perhaps we should all keep quite until we can present nothing but facts, but I think such a mentality would be severly detrimental to the progress here.

/Fredrik
 

Tim Polster
Member
Username: Bassman

Post Number: 214
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 69.149.34.58
Posted on Tuesday, October 10, 2006 - 02:15 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I have heard this as well.

With my next batch of hefeweizen, I will try an experiment to test underpitching.

I just brewed one this weekend with a decent starter.

The next time I brew this beer, I think I will try starting the 5 gallon batch from a slant.

If there is any difference in underpitching, I think this will show it.

Although, this won't be for a while because the I am still fermenting this batch.
 

Skotrat
Senior Member
Username: Skotrat

Post Number: 2276
Registered: 04-2003
Posted From: 24.128.118.170
Posted on Tuesday, October 10, 2006 - 03:12 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi,

I have some stuff saved:

Beer Flavor Primer: Fruity Flavors, AKA, Esters
by George de Piro
Brewmaster, C.H. Evans Brewing Company
Albany Pump Station
George@EvansAle.com

This article will be best understood if you pour yourself a nice, fresh Hefeweizen before reading any further. Do NOT corrupt it with a lemon! If you can’t find a good Hefeweizen, you can try spiking 10-20 drops of banana flavor extract into a Coors Light. It won’t be as satisfying, but it will be educational. I’ll wait here ‘til you return…

Are you settled in with your beer? Excellent. Now we can begin:

Put your nose over the glass of Hefeweizen (or spiked Coors Light) and sample the aroma. Wipe the foam off you nose and try again, from a little further away. What do you smell? Yes, of course you smell beer, but put some more specific adjectives to it. If it is a fresh, well-crafted example of a German-style wheat beer, you should be able to discern a fruity aroma that closely resembles banana. There are probably some other potent aromas there, too, such as clove-like spiciness, vanilla and malt, but for now we are only concerned with the fruity, banana scent. How did it get there?

While some beers are fruity tasting because they contain fruit, and others are fruity because of the hops, the secret to Hefeweizen’s banana-like character is the yeast.

The yeast used to ferment a beer is critical to the flavor of the finished product. All styles of beers (pilsners, stouts, barley wines, etc.) fit into one of two major categories: ale or lager. The difference between ales and lagers is the yeast that is used to ferment them. Lager yeasts work best at cooler temperatures, about 50 ºF, and produce relatively few flavor-active compounds during fermentation. This yields a beer in which the flavors of malt and hops play center stage.

Ale yeasts work at higher temperatures, from 60-75 ºF. They tend to synthesize a host of flavor-active chemicals during fermentation. Some strains of ale yeast yield relatively neutral, lager-like beer, but others are truly prolific in their manufacture of esters and other chemicals. Esters are the compounds that give many fruits their characteristic flavors.

In the case of your Hefeweizen, the yeast produce copious amounts of the ester iso-amyl acetate, the same ester that is found in bananas. Other esters include ethyl acetate, which ranges from flowery to solvent-like as concentration increases, and ethyl caproate, which can be described as wine-like and fruity.

The astute reader will have noticed that some of the flavor descriptors in the above list do not seem all that palatable. The solvent-like ethyl acetate, for example, is unlikely to have broad appeal. Others, such as iso-amyl acetate, can define a beer style. How does the brewer control which esters are produced, and the quantities that end up in the beer?

The short answer is the careful selection of a yeast strain and fastidious control over fermentation parameters to attain the desired ester profile. The long answer will provide the brewers (and biochemists) in the audience with the foundation necessary to create the beer in their mind’s eye (um, mouth?). The rest of you may find this next bit somewhat esoteric and will want to skip to some other newsletter article.

Brewers’ yeast creates relatively large quantities of carbon dioxide and alcohol during fermentation. That is why beer is fizzy and gives you a mild feeling of euphoria. Ethyl alcohol is by far the most abundant alcohol produced by yeast. They do make some other alcohols, too, which are referred to as fusel alcohols.

All of these alcohols can be changed into esters inside the yeast cells. The chemical reaction responsible for this conversion is called esterification. The specific alcohol that is esterified determines which ester is produced. If one starts with ethyl alcohol, one ends up with ethyl acetate after the esterification reaction. Similarly, isoamyl alcohol is esterified to the banana-like isoamyl acetate. Easy, right?

This chemical reaction, like so many in living things, is controlled by a special type of protein called an enzyme. In this case, the enzyme is named Alcohol Acetyl Transferase, or AAT. Another molecule, called acetyl coenzyme A (aCoA) is also required.

To maximize ester production, as is often desirous when brewing Hefeweizen, one would select a yeast that produces copious amounts of the AAT enzyme. One would also want to maximize the alcohol and aCoA precursors. What will do this?

1. Increasing the rate of yeast growth will increase the production of fusel alcohols, which you will recall as important ester precursors. Pitching too little yeast can do this, as can high temperatures early in the fermentation. Under pitching yeast can cause other problems, however, and is not a recommended method of increasing esters. The brewer’s safest method is to pitch the yeast into relatively warm wort (68-72 °F) to encourage rapid yeast growth.

2. Increased oxygenation of the cool wort will decrease esters. Oxygen is used by yeast to produce unsaturated fatty acids, and in doing so they use up aCoA, leaving less for ester production. Oxygen also helps the yeast produce strong cell membranes, which may restrict re-entry of fusel alcohols, thus decreasing ester production by limiting a precursor's presence in the cell.

By under-oxygenating, you will limit the amount of cell reproduction that can take place because of the limited sterol in the cells. By forcing yeast reproduction to stop well before the end of fermentation, the cells will pool aCoA rather than use it, thus increasing the amount of this ester precursor.

Like under-pitching, restricting oxygen is likely to cause more problems than the brewer wants to deal with, so it is not a recommended method of ester control for the home or small commercial brewery.

3. Fermenting under pressure, as some lager brewers do, will decrease esters by decreasing the rate of yeast growth, thus decreasing the fusel precursors. Most homebrewers and craft brewers don’t have to worry about this because they lack the equipment to ferment under pressure!

In the end, the safest way to increase esters in a beer is to choose an appropriate yeast strain and increase the rate of yeast growth by pitching and fermenting at higher temperatures. To decrease esters, as is desirable in many beer styles, choose an appropriately clean tasting yeast strain and pitch at low temperature. Always give your yeast plenty of oxygen!

****************************************

What is a yeast starter and how do I prepare one?

A yeast starter is essentially a "mini-beer." It is used as an intermediary step whereby one goes from having a small culture of yeast to ending up with a considerably larger culture. Your aim is to provide your brew with a sufficient colony of yeast, to reduce lag time, obtain optimum attenuation from the selected yeast strain, and to prevent "off" or unintended flavors from ending up in the finished product that can be caused by under-pitching yeast.

If you are using a 1.75 oz. Wyeast slap-pack you will need to remove it from refrigeration, slap the pack and allow the yeast to activate and expand the pack. Allow the pack to swell to at least an inch thick before pitching into your starter. Mix 16 ounces of water and 1/3 to ½ cup of malt extract together and bring to a boil for 15 minutes. Cool this mixture to proper pitching temperature (65-75 for most ales, 45-55 for most lagers) and then pitch the yeast. A healthy froth on the yeast starter should develop after 1 or 2 days at which point the yeast is ready to be pitched. (Added to the wort).

Add the yeast starter to your wort after it has been cooled below 80 degrees F (for ales) and preferably to 75 degrees or below. If you are making a lager, chill to recommended lager fermentation temperatures before pitching. Signs of fermentation should be evident within 24 hours if you have treated the yeast correctly.

http://www.midwestsupplies.com/faq/yeast_faq.asp

******************************************

DMS (dimethylsulfide): Cooked cabbage or sweet cornlike aroma.

* High Levels: High-moisture malt, especially six row varieties
* High Levels: bacterial contamination of wort.
* Low Levels: Use of two row English malt
* High Levels: Under pitching of yeast.
* High Levels: Bacterially infected yeast slurry.
* Low Levels: Longer boil will diminish DMS
* High Levels: Oversparging at low temperatures (especially lower than 160 degrees
* High Levels: Bacteria from equipment.
* High Levels: Introduction of unfiltered co2 produced by fermentation. Bottle priming will produce small amounts.
* High Levels: Covered pot during boil.


**************************************

There you Go Fredrik...

Now you may be able to work out some formulas...

-Scott
"Anger is a Gift"
 

Skotrat
Senior Member
Username: Skotrat

Post Number: 2277
Registered: 04-2003
Posted From: 24.128.118.170
Posted on Tuesday, October 10, 2006 - 03:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi,

If you are really bored here are a couple of good reads:

http://www.asbcnet.org/journal/pdfs/1999/0903A01R.pdf

http://www.breworganic.com/tips/Ferment-tips.htm

http://www.seas.upenn.edu/courses/belab/LabProjects/2004/be210s04w9.doc

http://www.doemens.org/index.php?id=82&L=2

http://www.westfalia-separator.com/pdfs/separators_decanters_in_breweries.pdf#se arch=%22%22yeast%20cell%20count%22%22

************************************

-Scott
"Anger is a Gift"
 

Dan Listermann
Senior Member
Username: Listermann

Post Number: 3486
Registered: 03-2004
Posted From: 216.23.59.245
Posted on Tuesday, October 10, 2006 - 03:53 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

". All styles of beers (pilsners, stouts, barley wines, etc.) fit into one of two major categories: ale or lager. The difference between ales and lagers is the yeast that is used to ferment them. Lager yeasts work best at cooler temperatures, about 50 ºF, and produce relatively few flavor-active compounds during fermentation. "

I might have a nit to pick with this. It is my opinion that the difference between ale and lager does not start with the yeast selection but rather with selection of the temperature of fermentation. The selection of the yeast follows this with lager yeasts being able to ferment at temperatures at which ale yeasts shut down.

Dan

--This space is STILL being left intentionally blank.-


 

Fredrik
Senior Member
Username: Fredrik

Post Number: 3431
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 62.20.8.114
Posted on Tuesday, October 10, 2006 - 03:54 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Skot, that's a pretty well written post from George de Piro. I might add one thing which is that the O2 repression effect on esters isn't just a basic competition for acyl-CoA, there are also a direct transcriptional repression on ATF1/2 from oxygen itself, as confirmed by several papers.

But it has little to do with this topic as it is phenolic flavours, not esters :-)

/Fredrik
 

Paul Hayslett
Senior Member
Username: Paulhayslett

Post Number: 1133
Registered: 02-2002
Posted From: 71.234.52.18
Posted on Tuesday, October 10, 2006 - 03:58 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Post removed because I was being stupid when I wrote it....

(Message edited by paulhayslett on October 10, 2006)
Vegetables aren't food. Vegetables are what food eats.
 

Dan Listermann
Senior Member
Username: Listermann

Post Number: 3488
Registered: 03-2004
Posted From: 216.23.59.245
Posted on Tuesday, October 10, 2006 - 05:34 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Opps! Double post. That can happen when you go to lunch.

(Message edited by listermann on October 10, 2006)

--This space is STILL being left intentionally blank.-


 

Dan Listermann
Senior Member
Username: Listermann

Post Number: 3490
Registered: 03-2004
Posted From: 216.23.59.245
Posted on Tuesday, October 10, 2006 - 08:40 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Maybe a little test is in order. Split a batch giving part of it plenty yeast, part of it about right and another too little with perhaps some points in between.

Dan

--This space is STILL being left intentionally blank.-


 

brett matthews
Member
Username: Brettj

Post Number: 136
Registered: 06-2004
Posted From: 124.150.113.46
Posted on Tuesday, October 10, 2006 - 11:24 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Man, I have a headache!!!! Lately I have been only pitching the yeast slurry after the starter has completely fermented out. I started doing this about 8 months ago and looking back that was about when I started to get this problem. Previous to this I pitched the starter at high krausen. The fellow brewer at the LHBS told me he gets a 4 litre starter going @ 1030, when that has just about finished, decants, leaving the slurry and then adds another 4 litres of fresh wort. Since doing this he says his phenolic issues have been resolved.
PS: Skotrat, brewed your Imperial Stout about 4 months ago and tried the first bottle last night. Sensational!!!!!
 

Skotrat
Senior Member
Username: Skotrat

Post Number: 2280
Registered: 04-2003
Posted From: 24.128.118.170
Posted on Tuesday, October 10, 2006 - 11:37 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sweet!

Thanks

I need to brew a RIS soon
"Anger is a Gift"
 

Ron Siddall
Member
Username: El_cid

Post Number: 156
Registered: 12-2005
Posted From: 198.135.241.18
Posted on Wednesday, October 11, 2006 - 12:00 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Skotrat, what in the world do you do with 50 gallons of RIS?
This space open to interpretation
 

Skotrat
Senior Member
Username: Skotrat

Post Number: 2281
Registered: 04-2003
Posted From: 24.128.118.170
Posted on Wednesday, October 11, 2006 - 12:24 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

age it and drink it and myself into old age hopefully
"Anger is a Gift"
 

Graham Cox
Advanced Member
Username: T2driver

Post Number: 675
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 69.244.192.174
Posted on Wednesday, October 11, 2006 - 02:58 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The single biggest problem with underpitching is the production of fusel alcohols, which are often confused by the subjective taster as phenolics. This is my recollection of a talk, and subsequent semi-buzzed conversations, with Lyn Kruger of the Siebel Institute. (Other problems, obviously, are underattenuation and to some extent, ester production, which again, may in fact be fusel aromas vice esters.)

I learned a lot by attending the various symposia at the NHC conference in Orlando this year. I encourage anyone who can to attend one or more in the years to come.

P.S. I have had the great pleasure to patronize George DePiro's (from a post above) establishment, the C.H. Evans Brewing Company at the Albany Pump Station, on a (far too few) number of occasions, and also meet and exchange email with him. A great guy and IMHO, a wonderful place with great food, great beers, great atmosphere. Highly recommended.

(Message edited by t2driver on October 11, 2006)
 

Fredrik
Senior Member
Username: Fredrik

Post Number: 3432
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 213.114.44.230
Posted on Wednesday, October 11, 2006 - 05:49 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

From my total understanding so far in brewing I seriously doubt that there are *simple* relations between pitching rates and fuesels, esters such as "lower pitching -> more or less esters/fuesels" etc. There is just no way it's that simple in the general case.

There is definitely a relation, and no doubt in specific cases there are simple rules, but I've seen so many conflicting reports that I am quite confident that the effects are highly strain and condition dependent.

This means you can do an experiment, 3 side by side worts... 3 different pitching rates.. but people have done that already... with conflicting results... but this is because such experiments would have no general validity outside your specific settings as you would have to repeat the experiment for all strain on the market also each one in each different type of wort we use... different conditions etc...

Graham quotes Lynn saying lower pitching increase fuesels, I have seen papers showing that higher pitching rates increase fuesels. So which is it? I would say that both are right, but the statements have no general validity, they both apply to specific experiments, specific worts, strains, conditions.

/Fredrik

(Message edited by fredrik on October 11, 2006)
 

Paul Erbe
Advanced Member
Username: Perbe

Post Number: 700
Registered: 05-2001
Posted From: 12.27.22.67
Posted on Wednesday, October 11, 2006 - 02:56 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The tobacco companies had reports that claimed nicotine is not addictive.

I think I would give Lyn Kruger a higher spot on the validity meter.
 

Graham Cox
Advanced Member
Username: T2driver

Post Number: 678
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 69.244.192.174
Posted on Wednesday, October 11, 2006 - 03:01 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

From the Siebel Institute website: "Lyn Kruger worked for South African Breweries as Development Microbiologist and Microbiology Consultant. She holds her B.S. in Microbiology and Chemistry from Rhodes University and her M.S. in Fermentation Microbiology from the University of Witswatersrand. Lyn is currently President & COO of Siebel Institute and is involved with various courses, lab services and microbiological media."

Fredrik, with all due respect to you, I'm going to have have to go with Lyn's opinion on this one.
 

Fredrik
Senior Member
Username: Fredrik

Post Number: 3434
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 62.20.8.114
Posted on Wednesday, October 11, 2006 - 03:18 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

My point wasn't to comment Lyn or other experts at all, I'm sure she knows excactly what she is talking about. But if you asked Lyn for a non-simplified answer if pitching less yeast really *always* lead to more fuesels? I would be surprised if the said anything but no :-)

I have seen how the other experts from yeast companies like dr cone and others answer homebrewers questions, and my guess is that they often they know alot more than they tell you, because the complete answer might not be understandable. My impression is that they often give simplified responses. They aren't necessarily wrong at all, just that, perhaps things are really a little bit more complicated than what the typical homebrewer really wants to know, that was my only point :-)

My respect to Lyn and all other professionals.

/Fredrik
 

Graham Cox
Advanced Member
Username: T2driver

Post Number: 679
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 69.244.192.174
Posted on Wednesday, October 11, 2006 - 03:43 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Well, I'm a pretty simple guy, Fredrik! I need some simple rules that I can remember when I brew, because I'm frequently drunk either before, during, or afterwards. (Sometimes all three )

My simple rules include the following: "Underpitching is bad."

More specifically, underpitching will undesirably alter the flavor and aroma profile of the finished beer. From a judging standpoint, I need to be able to recognize some typical byproducts of underpitching, but other than that, I don't really care about the specific mechanisms by which this happens, or whether it's phenolics or fusels or esters or mercaptans or aldehydes or ketones or anything else. I just know it happens so I try to avoid it.
 

Fredrik
Senior Member
Username: Fredrik

Post Number: 3435
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 213.114.44.230
Posted on Wednesday, October 11, 2006 - 05:32 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yes, I understand and that's a good point indeed.

Maybe I am on the opposite side. I don't care as much if pitching less or more yeast is good or bad (because I think that might depend on style + partky be a personal preference), I just want to understand what it does from a neutral point of view - "how does this stuff work". Wether it's good or bad is a separate story for me, important too of course, but I think also more complex.

/Fredrik
 

Skotrat
Senior Member
Username: Skotrat

Post Number: 2283
Registered: 04-2003
Posted From: 24.128.118.170
Posted on Wednesday, October 11, 2006 - 05:58 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

euuuboy...

Fredrik Fredrik Fredrik

Pitching a healthy yeast cell count has nothing to do with style or personal preference...

It has to do with making better beer!

You have been given many facts yet you do not see the forest from all the trees.

If you had your mind made up all tihs time why then theorize and debate?

Makes no sense

-Scott
"Anger is a Gift"
 

Fredrik
Senior Member
Username: Fredrik

Post Number: 3436
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 213.114.44.230
Posted on Wednesday, October 11, 2006 - 07:46 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

We got into a sidetrack here. I originally responded to what I considered to focus on phenolic flavours.

Perhaps my comment to Grahams post came out a little unbalanced. The only thing I meant to add is an opinion of slight doubt that there is a unquestionable connection between fusels formation and pitching rates. Of course I low credibility aside with Lyn, but so what, we are all homebrewers here. Lyn may still have a point of course. I'm just reluctant to overgeneralize.

BTW, I always tend to choose to pitch alot of healthy yeast, but that was I think beyond the point here.

/Fredrik
 

Denny Conn
Senior Member
Username: Denny

Post Number: 5927
Registered: 01-2001
Posted From: 140.211.82.4
Posted on Wednesday, October 11, 2006 - 07:51 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The problem with listening to "experts" is that they disagree with each other so often....take what they say, experiment with it and make up your own mind....
LIfe begins at 60...1.060, that is.
 

Vance Barnes
Senior Member
Username: Vancebarnes

Post Number: 2469
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 208.49.148.10
Posted on Wednesday, October 11, 2006 - 08:14 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Many Belgian brewers underpitch quite a bit and their beers are not loaded with fusels. I think the comment about a specific wort is key. The composition of Belgian worts is pretty different than the compositions of say a German lager wort or a English bitter wort. As are the yeast strains used. Many different variables that come into play in making beer.
 

Fredrik
Senior Member
Username: Fredrik

Post Number: 3437
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 213.114.44.230
Posted on Thursday, October 12, 2006 - 04:34 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Well said Denny, my point as well.

/Fredrik