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Brews & Views Bulletin Board Service * Brews and Views Archive 2008 * Archive through July 11, 2008 * Schneider Weiss clone? < Previous Next >

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Onebarrel
Member
Username: Onebarrel

Post Number: 168
Registered: 12-2002
Posted From: 99.249.28.66
Posted on Thursday, June 12, 2008 - 02:05 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I need a little feedback on this recipe:

for 10gal @ 1054

4 lbs ger pils malt
12 lbs ger wheat malt
2 lbs ger Cara-munich 2
2 lbs US veanna malt

mash at 122F for 15 min raise to 149F for 45 min
mashout at 165F

eff = 80%
13 IBU (all Hallertau Hersbrucker)
W3068 yeast @ 65F

I think the grain bill should give me about 11L color so I think that looks OK, but my main question is the yeast flavor profile.

Now with the yeast at that temp will I get clove or banana? I don't really taste banana in the bottle conditioned version I buy at the store but maybe that is just my tastes.

Feedback appreciated... brew session Friday night... 2.0L starter active.
 

Hallertauer
Advanced Member
Username: Hallertauer

Post Number: 531
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 204.104.55.243
Posted on Thursday, June 12, 2008 - 08:48 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Just throwing this out there. Most German wheat beers don't use the original strain but Scheider does. You might want to consider culturing the yeast from the bottle. Maisal is another weizen that uses the original strain for bottle conditioning.
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 8970
Registered: 01-2002
Posted From: 24.57.225.170
Posted on Thursday, June 12, 2008 - 10:19 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

As far as I know, Schneider uses the Weihenstephan strain (Wyeast 3068/White Labs WLP300). The flavor profile from both is a dead ringer for Schneider.

At 65 F the flavor will be relatively balanced between clove and banana, just slightly on the clove side. If you can control the temperature you might want to set it at 61-62 F during the most active part of fermentation in order to allow for a higher temperature in the fermenter.
 

Onebarrel
Member
Username: Onebarrel

Post Number: 169
Registered: 12-2002
Posted From: 99.249.28.66
Posted on Thursday, June 12, 2008 - 12:15 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Bill - Wyeast says the lower end for this yeast is 64F... I am able to stick a temp probe into the fermenting wort and raise or lower my temperature controller to suit.
I have not used this yeast before but I have used the W3056, but did not think the the resulting beer was the same. Thanks for the input.
 

Mike G.
Intermediate Member
Username: Mikeg

Post Number: 282
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 66.35.118.42
Posted on Thursday, June 12, 2008 - 02:46 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I just re-read an article from BYO (about july 2006, I think) on Hefe's, written by Horst Dornbusch. I believe the Schneider brewer quoted in the story mentioned their yeast was derived from the Weihenstephan strain (W-68, I think), but that it had changed slightly in profile to emphasize phenol clove type flavors more so than the banana esters.

The scheider-style recipe given in the article recommended WLP 380 or Wy3068 - I think the WLP380 is noted for more emphasis on the clove flavors over the banana?
 

Vance Barnes
Senior Member
Username: Vancebarnes

Post Number: 3244
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 74.7.7.66
Posted on Thursday, June 12, 2008 - 03:14 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

If you want more clove go for a ferulic acid rest in the mash. Here's a recipe I've done that while tasty was not exactly SW. Fairly close to what you've got. I decocted the mash.

Recipe : Weizenbock
Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (GAL): 5.50
Wort Size (GAL): 5.50
Total Grain (LBS): 18.25
Anticipated OG: 1.082 Plato: 19.78
Anticipated SRM: 14.5
Anticipated IBU: 22.9
Brewhouse Efficiency: 65
Wort Boil Time: 90 Minutes


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential SRM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
27.4 5.00 lbs. Pilsener Germany 1.038 2
54.8 10.00 lbs. Wheat Malt (dark) Germany 1.039 6
11.0 2.00 lbs. Munich Malt Germany 1.037 8
2.7 0.50 lbs. Special B Malt Belgian 1.030 120
2.7 0.50 lbs. CaraMunich 40 France 1.034 40
1.4 0.25 lbs. Brown Malt Great Britain 1.032 65

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.

Hops
Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
2.00 oz. Hallertau Hersbrucker Pellet 3.90 22.9 60 min.

Yeast
-----
White Labs WLP300 Hefewizen Ale
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 8971
Registered: 01-2002
Posted From: 24.57.225.170
Posted on Thursday, June 12, 2008 - 07:55 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'm drinking a weizenbock that I brewed at the end of February. To my taste it's nearly perfectly balanced between clove and banana. It earned first place in its category and an honorable mention for best of show at a fairly large competition.

I did a classic 50-60-70 C (122-140-158 F) step mash with 20 minutes each for the first and third rests and 40 minutes for the second. I pitched Wyeast 3068 and fermented in my basement at 65 F.
 

Onebarrel
Member
Username: Onebarrel

Post Number: 170
Registered: 12-2002
Posted From: 99.249.28.66
Posted on Thursday, June 12, 2008 - 08:30 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

That sounds like a pretty good endorsement for W3068... I have never used White Labs yeast yet but might try some in the future, but for now I will stick with my Wyeast.
That sounds like a Fix mash schedual... I am brewing this batch on a friends system - plastic cooler tun so we are planning on a 122F infusion, then take 30-40% of the mash and heat that up to 168F in a spare kettle - transfer back and adjust with boiling water till we hit 149F, then sparge as usual.
Thanks for all the suggestions.
 

Vance Barnes
Senior Member
Username: Vancebarnes

Post Number: 3248
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 74.7.7.66
Posted on Thursday, June 12, 2008 - 09:10 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

??? Why only heat the mash you're pulling to 168? Why not take it on to boiling? Then you wouldn't have to add as much boiling water.

I'm assuming when you say take 30-40% of the mash you're refering to pulling mostly the grain as in a decoction?
 

Tom Meier
Advanced Member
Username: Brewdawg96

Post Number: 809
Registered: 03-2003
Posted From: 75.137.121.197
Posted on Friday, June 13, 2008 - 12:29 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I also think that Schneider Weisse is a different strain, or mutated version.

I love the crisper phenolics of the Schneider beers. It sets them apart. I don't see how you can get that out of 3068, even pitching cooler.

But its the closest choice..
 

PaulK
Advanced Member
Username: Paulk

Post Number: 715
Registered: 02-2003
Posted From: 68.84.198.40
Posted on Friday, June 13, 2008 - 01:37 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The Weihenstephan 3068 yeast is nothing like Schneider's yeast. Schneider has considerably more phenolics.

Also, regarding the recipe at the start of this thread, I would drop the CaraMunich and replace with a pound of Munich and a pound of pils malt. It's not a sweet beer and you'll make a very sweet beer with that much crystal malt.