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Mike Huss
Senior Member
Username: Mikhu

Post Number: 1779
Registered: 03-2003
Posted on Friday, November 09, 2007 - 10:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

With this past week's annoying "green" theme on NBC I found it ironic that I see this today.

Weather Channel Founder: Global Warming ‘Greatest Scam in History’

http://icecap.us/index.php/go/joes-blog/comments_about_global_warming/

Back to NBC, does anyone else find it ironic that NBC is pushing for alternative energy sources like wind power? For the record, I think wind power is a WONDERFUL concept, but the NIMBY's around here are fighting it big time. Anyway, why do I find it ironic you ask? Because NBC is owned by GE, who bought Enron's wind turbine manufacturing assets back in '02.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F07E0D6173CF931A25757C0A9649C8B6 3

Huh, seems to me that this week's politically correct environmental crusade from NBC sure reeks of money grubbing opportunistic capitalism if you smell it just ever so slightly.

Not that I have a problem with that, more power to them (bad pun intended). I just think it's funny that all the greenies are praising NBC for their scam this week, all while not realizing they are praising "evil" capitalism that they claim to despise so.
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 7988
Registered: 01-2002
Posted on Friday, November 09, 2007 - 11:14 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Mike, it's a fair observation that NBC's parent makes wind turbines. For that matter, they have a stake in nuclear energy as well. In fact, GE is so large that it might be said they are in some way involved in nearly everything you can think of.

However, I'm not sure I understand how NBC has despised capitalism. I agree they have been critical of many of the big oil companies, but I don't see how being "green" equates directly with being anti-capitalistic. There is a sizable and growing industry that very much seeks to profit from a future in which everyone will have to be environmentally conscious.
 

Mike Huss
Senior Member
Username: Mikhu

Post Number: 1780
Registered: 03-2003
Posted on Saturday, November 10, 2007 - 12:10 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Bill, not NBC, but the far-out environmentalists who praise the environmentalist institution and condemn all things capitalistic. They've been wetting themselves with excitement this week over the NBC green promotion, all while not realizing the true reason NBC could actually be doing it. (I'm not referring to average people who try not to waste, recycle, etc, I'm talking about the eco-nazis.)
 

Dan Listermann
Senior Member
Username: Listermann

Post Number: 5032
Registered: 03-2004
Posted on Saturday, November 10, 2007 - 12:54 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

"Bill, not NBC, but the far-out environmentalists who praise the environmentalist institution and condemn all things capitalistic. "

I have to say that is one of the oddest takes on things I have seen in a long time. I suppose "far-out environmentalists / eco-nazis" are Commies? Consider getting a grip.
 

Paul Hayslett
Senior Member
Username: Paulhayslett

Post Number: 1422
Registered: 02-2002
Posted on Saturday, November 10, 2007 - 04:11 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Mike, you are correct that there is a left-wing "party line" (a term with origins in the Communist Party propaganda machines of last century). If you are a certain sort of lefty, then you buy the package deal of lefty issues, including greenery and anti-capitalism.

But THINKING lefties (and we do exist) look around and say, "Where are the most polluted places on Earth?" The most polluted places on Earth are communist and ex-communist countries. And they ask, "Which places have done the most to clean and protect their environments?" Those places would be capitalist democracies. If they are very brave thinking lefties, they might even say that in public.

Of course, "package deal" thinking isn't just a left-wing phenomenon. There are "package deal" people of all stripes. It's MUCH easier than thinking, and you don't run the risk of disagreeing with members of your group.

That's why I have so much respect for the breakaway conservative churches who are questioning the righty package deal lately. Especially the churches who have rediscovered a religious foundation for greenery and become born-again (pun intended) environmentalists. They are taking a lot of heat from their fellow right-wingers.
 

Paul Hayslett
Senior Member
Username: Paulhayslett

Post Number: 1423
Registered: 02-2002
Posted on Saturday, November 10, 2007 - 01:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I posted without editing last night and fear my point was not well-made. Here it is in short form:

The days when most environmentalists saw capitalism as evil are long gone. So are the days when only atheist, pro-gay, pro-abortion, Birkenstock-wearing, granola eaters were concerned about "stewardship". Ann Coulter may not have noticed this yet, but she's just not paying attention.

Those stereotypes were always too simple. Rural hunters were always strong supporters of certain environmental issues and, as I mentioned, communist countries have always been the worst polluters. Simplistic labels like "eco-nazis" are no more realistic than saying that every Southern Baptist owns a gun and protests abortion clinics. People are much less predictable than that. As businesses find money in greenery and conservative Protestants start to question the war in Iraq, this has become more true, not less.
 

Mike Huss
Senior Member
Username: Mikhu

Post Number: 1781
Registered: 03-2003
Posted on Saturday, November 10, 2007 - 03:02 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Point well made Paul, no worries.

Dan, the most common talking heads of the far left, the Hollywood limousine liberals, have been running around for years praising leaders like Castro and that POS Chavez even though their socialistic/communistic countries are more run down, polluted, and have more inequality between social classes than almost anywhere in the world other than most of the African countries.

Considering the Democratic party seems to be getting their talking points from these people (see 2004 DNC with Michael Moore-on cozying up to Jimmy), it's scary where that party is going.

Trust me, I have a grip.
 

Dan Listermann
Senior Member
Username: Listermann

Post Number: 5035
Registered: 03-2004
Posted on Saturday, November 10, 2007 - 03:24 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I suppose you can excuse Republicans for cozying up to brutal dictators for decades.

It is good to see that the Republicans are starting to abandon the thinking exemplified by former Interior Sec. James Watt who felt that the environment could be ravaged with no problems considering the Apocalypse was imminent. Still there is Ann Coulter. . .

Perhaps you should consider improving your grip. The world is far more analog than binary.
 

Mike Huss
Senior Member
Username: Mikhu

Post Number: 1782
Registered: 03-2003
Posted on Saturday, November 10, 2007 - 03:56 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Dan, I'm not forgiving anyone for past transgressions. Both major parties have aligned with bad people when it was politically or militarily expedient.

However, what matters today is what's going on today, and the Dems are aligning themselves with the Hollywood elite, and those people are going as far as to praise the likes of Chavez and Castro. Do we really want people leading our country that think Cuba and Venezuela are shining examples of how to run a country?

Lest you think I'm promoting the GOP party line, I find myself most aligned view-wise with Ron Paul, other than his cut and run from Iraq concept of course.

You know, I started this thread to talk about the former head of the Weather Channel's announcement that global warming is a scam, yet no one has touched that. Where are the excuses? Is no one going to say he must be funded by big oil? How about he must be running for GOP office next year? Where are the conspiracy theories behind why he's saying what he is?
 

Steve Sampson
Intermediate Member
Username: Sampsosm

Post Number: 449
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Saturday, November 10, 2007 - 04:45 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I think it would help if he put some reasons why he thinks it is a scam, Mike. He just sort of states that it is a scam and leaves it at that.
 

Dan Listermann
Senior Member
Username: Listermann

Post Number: 5037
Registered: 03-2004
Posted on Saturday, November 10, 2007 - 04:52 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I suspect he is mistaken.

Let us see what we can agree upon.

1. It is getting warmer.

2. It may be a natural change, a man made change or both. (not entirely black and white)

3. Humans are releasing carbon that has been bottled up inside the Earth for a very long time unless you are a Creationists. This carbon, for the most part, is in the form of CO2.

4. CO2 is a greenhouse gas. Rising levels will trap more heat from the sun.

5. The warming of the planet will bring on lots of changes, some positive, some not so much.

6. It is very important to determine whether or not the unnatural addition of CO2 into the atmosphere is playing a role in the warming of the planet so we can prepare to minimize the "not so much positve" aspects.

Let me know where you might disagree with this list and we can discuss it further.



(Message edited by listermann on November 10, 2007)
 

Paul Hayslett
Senior Member
Username: Paulhayslett

Post Number: 1426
Registered: 02-2002
Posted on Saturday, November 10, 2007 - 08:40 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yeah, I agree with Steve. Coleman says that Global Warming is a scam, but he doesn't say why he thinks that, so there isn't much to discuss.

I am open to the idea that temperature variations are natural. It wouldn't take much of a fluctuation in the Sun's energy output to cause the world to heat up a few degrees. The Earth's magnetic field is known to be weakening, possibly in preparation for another polarity flip, and this might affect the magnetosphere in a way that allows more solar energy in.

Still, I think it can't hurt to take the other possibility seriously and to do what is not ruinously expensive to control greenhouse emissions. Lots of benefits there that have nothing to do with climate change. Hey, if every home were properly insulated, it might liberate a few acres currently being used to grow corn and help alleviate the hop shortage!

The hard part is deciding what efforts are reasonable and justified. Screeching about scams without any backup doesn't help with that.
 

Tom Callen
Member
Username: Tc2642

Post Number: 148
Registered: 07-2005
Posted on Wednesday, November 28, 2007 - 11:23 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

While I am still a believer (and a socialist, boo hiss!) in the fact that global warming is happening, due to human activity, even if it is not, there are still the benefits that come from this.

Let's remember no-one is pumping oil back into the ground. Some point this stuff will run out whether global warming is due to us or natural phenomena, isn't it better that we are looking towards a new economy where we can manage and source renewable resources? If that doesn't persuade you, then look at the knock on effects that the fear of climate change can produce, it is, in effect, making a new economy and new jobs, giving you an edge over those who stay in the old economy. Better efficiently and capital output results from this.

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