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Bob Wall
Senior Member
Username: Brewdudebob

Post Number: 1372
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 71.204.51.87
Posted on Friday, February 15, 2008 - 04:37 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

http://www.ajc.com/blogs/content/shared-blogs/ajc/barrcode/entries/2008/02/15/su nday_alcohol_sales_in_georgi.html

Sunday Alcohol Sales in Georgia Still Hostage to the GOP and the Religious Right

By Bob Barr | Friday, February 15, 2008, 09:06 AM

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution

Citizens of the Peach State hoping that the ascendancy of the Republican Party as the majority party in state government would usher in an era of individual liberty consistent with the oft-pronounced GOP philosophy of individual responsibility and less government power, have yet to witness any significant evidence of that since the Republicans took over the governorship and the state House and Senate several years ago. This gulf between talk of less government restriction on personal freedom and the reality of government control, is evident in public comments by the Republican Senate leadership, the lieutenant governor and Governor Sonny Perdue, refusing to even allow formal consideration of referenda on Sunday sales of alcoholic beverages in grocery and convenience stores.

While many Republican legislators speak often and eloquently of individual freedom and responsibility, and of supporting small businesses, when it comes to listening to the majority of citizens - 65 percent according to a recent poll - who favor Sunday alcohol sales, the voice of the people apparently counts for nothing. In fact, the governor has indicated clearly that even were the legislature to pass legislation allowing local jurisdictions to hold referenda allowing Sunday sales, he would veto the bill. Senate leaders reportedly have refused even to hold hearings on the legislation.

So much for responsive, representative government in Georgia. And so much for the possibility of Sunday alcohol sales, at least for the time being.
 

Dan Listermann
Senior Member
Username: Listermann

Post Number: 5330
Registered: 03-2004
Posted From: 216.23.55.202
Posted on Friday, February 15, 2008 - 05:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

A lot of what is called "political discourse" is just lip service. The "Base" needs to be pacified and stroked.
 

Kevin Kowalczyk
Member
Username: Itsfunbrewingbeer

Post Number: 119
Registered: 10-2007
Posted From: 12.165.82.136
Posted on Friday, February 15, 2008 - 05:25 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I bet they still maintain their less government restriction on personal freedom to own firearms.
 

Dan Listermann
Senior Member
Username: Listermann

Post Number: 5331
Registered: 03-2004
Posted on Friday, February 15, 2008 - 06:38 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

One wonders what the "Time Being" really thinks about Sunday alcohol sales. I suppose that, since it is a temporary assignment, it depends mostly upon who the "Time Being" is at the moment.
 

Paul Hayslett
Senior Member
Username: Paulhayslett

Post Number: 1562
Registered: 02-2002
Posted on Friday, February 15, 2008 - 06:57 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Both parties seem to feel that "individual freedom" (and, at another level, States' rights) means "being able to do the things we think are good and not the things we think are bad".

For the GOP, "bad" freedoms involve things like using marijuana or getting your daughter vaccinated against HPV.

For the Dems, "bad" freedoms apparently include sending your kids to the school or your choice or eating an unhealthy diet.

In a heart-warming (insert sarcastic smiley here) display of bipartisanship, neither side apparently trusts the people or the States with energy policy, pollution control, sentencing guidelines, or a whole range of other issues.

"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people."

Yeah, right.
 

Brad Petit
Intermediate Member
Username: Voodoobrew

Post Number: 315
Registered: 06-2005
Posted on Sunday, February 17, 2008 - 04:43 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

To be fair, it's not just overwhelmingly conservative jurisdictions that exercise such irrational control over alcohol.

We see, for example, some pretty silly blue laws in places like Pennsylvania. Also, restrictions on beer alcohol content for grocery stores in Colorado. And in Montgomery County, Maryland (the place of my upbringing), which is certainly left of center, the county itself serves as the exclusive wholesaler, and owns all liquor stores.

But the point is valid, that all these religiously inspired prohibitions against Sunday booze sales do seem to fly directly in the face of the GOP's posturing for "personal responsibility" and against the "nanny state."

Here in South Carolina, local jurisdictions are allowed to overturn Sunday restrictions. In Columbia, we'll be voting in April to permit beer and wine sales seven days a week. It's crazy we have to go through all the trouble, but it's a step in the right direction at least ...
 

Dan Listermann
Senior Member
Username: Listermann

Post Number: 5335
Registered: 03-2004
Posted on Sunday, February 17, 2008 - 05:38 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sometimes blue laws develop constitnuecies that have nothing to do with the religious inspiration of such laws. Years ago Lexington KY had very strictly enforced blue laws mainly because nobody wanted to compete with anyone on Sunday. They knew that as soon as someone, say a car dealership, started selling on Sunday, they all would have to.
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 8524
Registered: 01-2002
Posted on Sunday, February 17, 2008 - 05:57 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

This is the legacy of Prohibition and the 21st Amendment. The federal government wanted to placate states that wished to remain dry by giving them the right to regulate alcohol within their borders. Some states did the same by allowing local jurisdictions (counties and cities) this right, and some cities have gone so far as to allow individual wards or even voting precincts to decide about alcohol sales. The result is an incredible mishmash of restrictions that creates opportunities for some people and groups to exploit the situation to their own benefit.

It's more about the law of unintended consequences than it is about party politics.
 

Paul Hayslett
Senior Member
Username: Paulhayslett

Post Number: 1563
Registered: 02-2002
Posted on Sunday, February 17, 2008 - 06:22 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yup. Here in decidedly "blue" state Connecticut, the legacy of the Pilgrims can be seen in all kinds of regulations. No packaged liquor sales on Sunday or holidays or after 9pm on weekdays. (That is, bars are open but liquor stores are not and grocery stores have to pull shades down over the beer at 9pm.) Bars can't sell packaged liquor to take home. (Growlers are an exception, but only legalized 2 years ago.) Run out of beer during your Labor Day weekend and you are screwed.

Every time someone tries to loosen the rules, the liquor store owners go ballistic. It has nothing to do with religion. They just don't want to work on Sunday, and this is a way to prevent their competitors from opening on Sunday too. Moving closing time from 8pm to 9pm took an absurd amount of effort and for the same reason.
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 8525
Registered: 01-2002
Posted on Sunday, February 17, 2008 - 06:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I lived briefly in southeastern Connecticut quite a few years ago. At that time the bars and clubs were closed on Sundays. We used to drive over to Rhode Island (only 20 minutes away) on Sunday nights. The tavern and club owners there loved it. Of course this was in the days of higher blood alcohol limits for driving.
 

Mike Huss
Senior Member
Username: Mikhu

Post Number: 1845
Registered: 03-2003
Posted on Sunday, February 17, 2008 - 07:13 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Wisconsin would implode if beer wasn't sold here on Sundays!
 

Bob Wall
Senior Member
Username: Brewdudebob

Post Number: 1373
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Monday, February 18, 2008 - 06:50 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

No Sheot Mike! I remember about 10 years ago when I first moved here to the Bible Belt! It was a late Autumn Sunday. My old High School friend Andy (Appleton West) had invited me over to his house to watch the Packers play. On the way to his house I stopped at the nearest gas station and went inside. The polite thing to do is bring some beer when you visit, so I proceeded to the beer section of the gas station and picked out some macro-swill as there were no other choices. I brought it to the counter and placed there and reached for my wallet. With a broken accent, Hadji mumbled something about Sunday. I said to him, "What?...Yes it is Sunday....Thank you for pointing that out. He said to me: "I cannot sell you that beer...It is Sunday."

I was Flabbergasted!!!

WTF!!!!

The Packers are playing, and I can't buy beer!? Are you EFFING KIDDING ME?!?!?!?!??!?

I nearly had a Tourette's episode!!!

Poor Hadji didn't know what to think. He tried to explain to me what the laws were, but all I heard was "Derka, Derka, Derka"

I left the store very upset, shaken, and pissed off. I couldn't believe a man of 30+ years was denied the purchase of beer on Packer Sunday!...BLASPHEMY!!!

When I got to Andy's house and told him. He roared with laughter. We still get a chuckle out of it to this day.

Damn...do I hate the Blue Laws down here!!!
 

Paul Hayslett
Senior Member
Username: Paulhayslett

Post Number: 1564
Registered: 02-2002
Posted on Monday, February 18, 2008 - 02:38 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I hate Blue Laws too.

Every year, we throw a 3-day Labor Day party. Locals come and go all weekend; out-of-towners bring sleeping bags and camp out on every horizontal surface we have.

It's a huge logistical gamble: If the weather is bad, we might serve 120 meals; if it's good, almost 200. Beer consumption varies by temperature over a much larger range. No one shows up empty-handed, of course, but you can't always predict what people will bring. So we have to have stuff on hand to cover gaps.

We can always run to the store for more food, but there are no sales of beer, wine, or liquor between 9pm (used to be 8pm) Saturday and Tuesday morning. So we always end up buying an extra case of something we wouldn't normally drink, only to have it sit in the basement for months afterward.
 

David Lewinnek
Intermediate Member
Username: Davelew

Post Number: 421
Registered: 02-2005
Posted on Monday, February 18, 2008 - 02:52 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I agree it's not just conservative bible thumpers. Here in liberal Massachusetts we have some pretty odd laws, too.

Until a few years ago, you couldn't buy alcohol on Sunday except within 10 miles of the New Hampshire border (so the state didn't lose liquor taxes to another state), or between Thanksgiving and Christmas (for gifts?). Before this was repealed, it was common to call around to your friends and say, "I'm going to a dinner party, do you have a bottle of wine I can borrow? I'll replace it when the stores open tomorrow."

No chain of stores can have more than three liquor licenses in the state of Masschusetts. That means your typical gas station will not have beer, and you can't buy beer in most chain supermarkets. There was a ballot initiative last year to allow wine sales in supermarkets, but that narrowly failed after extraordinary amounts of money were spent by liquor stores.

Each town has a certain number of liquor licenses allocated by the state, and they can't issue more licenses without convincing the state to give them up. There's an Italian restaurant near me which is for sale, and they're having trouble finding potential buyers because they won't be able to transfer the existing liquor license; it will go into a pool, and the new buyers will have to fight with every other restaurant looking to go wet.
 

Mike Huss
Senior Member
Username: Mikhu

Post Number: 1846
Registered: 03-2003
Posted on Monday, February 18, 2008 - 03:45 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Wow...just wow!! For all the times I hate living in Wisconsin, stories like these make me appreciate it again. I can go to the corner gas station and buy beer from 8 AM to 9 PM 7 days/week. I can go the the grocery store a mile away and buy anything during those same hours.

However, you can tell we are used to those hours around here. A few years back we were in Arkansas for work and went out to eat on a Friday night IIRC. As we were walking out of the restaurant at 8:55 PM we realized we didn't have any beer in anyone's rooms so one of the guys SPRINTED across the parking lot to the grocery store to get some. One of the locals that went out to eat with us said "Why is he running?" and I said "Because we only have 5 minutes left to buy beer!". He started laughing and reminded me that we had three hours left, not 5 minutes.
 

Dan Listermann
Senior Member
Username: Listermann

Post Number: 5338
Registered: 03-2004
Posted on Monday, February 18, 2008 - 05:04 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

In Ohio, I think that you can't buy beer after 1:00 or so. I don't know when it starts up again in the morning. Still, on Sundays, you can buy beer regular hours, but I believe that you have to wait until 1:00 pm for wine or hooch. Maybe not hooch. I hardly ever buy it.

Really I don't know much about this because I don't buy much alcohol anymore, but I do know that it is better than what some guys are describing here.
 

Skotrat
Advanced Member
Username: Skotrat

Post Number: 541
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Monday, February 18, 2008 - 05:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Here Dan...

http://www.com.ohio.gov/liqr/

This is also a very useful link:

http://www.atf.treas.gov/alcohol/info/faq/subpages/lcb.htm
 

Bob Wall
Senior Member
Username: Brewdudebob

Post Number: 1374
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Monday, February 18, 2008 - 05:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Mike,

You can buy beer until midnight in Wisconsin. It is just that Appleton and most cities have ordinances that close it off at 9:00. When I lived on the south-side of Appleton, I used to have to drive down Oneida to the gas station at Waverly Beach when I was out of beer and it was after 9:00.

I think that a Liquor store has to close at 9:00 as well even if it is not in a city. I am not sure, but I think Wisconsin has 2 types of licenses, one where you can sell everything, and one where you can only sell beer.
 

Mike Huss
Senior Member
Username: Mikhu

Post Number: 1847
Registered: 03-2003
Posted on Monday, February 18, 2008 - 06:40 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yes, technically you are correct Bob. I just didn't want to confuse everyone here with all those different ordinances. Waverly Beach and the Kwik Trip closest to my house are both in the same township that I am in (Harrison), and we can buy beer there until midnight. But yes, within Appleton's city limits you can only buy until 9:00.

I was living either in Appleton or in the Town of Menasha when I was in Little Rock at the time of that story, so buying beer after midnight was news to me as well as the other guy I was with from here.

But then again, why would I want to buy BMC after 9:00 PM? That's all the Kwik Trips have these days. We DID used to buy 30 packs of Red Dog at Kwik Trip back in the day for only $10! Boy, life was good back then!
 

Dan Listermann
Senior Member
Username: Listermann

Post Number: 5339
Registered: 03-2004
Posted on Monday, February 18, 2008 - 07:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

It is quite a challange to find the hours of operation through that site, but when I did, I also found this:

(2) “Nudity” means the showing of the human male or female genital, pubic area or buttocks with less than a fully opaque covering; the showing of the female breast with less than a fully opaque covering of any part of the nipple and/or areola; the exposure of any device, costume, or covering which gives the appearance of or simulates the genitals, pubic hair, natal cleft, perineum anal region or pubic hair region; or the exposure of any device worn as a cover over the nipples and/or areola of the female breast, which device simulates and gives the realistic appearance of the nipples and/or areola.
 

Colby Enck
Advanced Member
Username: Thecheese

Post Number: 515
Registered: 06-2003
Posted on Monday, February 18, 2008 - 09:02 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Now I'm all hot and bothered, Dan.
 

Dan Listermann
Senior Member
Username: Listermann

Post Number: 5342
Registered: 03-2004
Posted on Monday, February 18, 2008 - 09:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I wonder what the plumbers union thinks about the regulations regarding the "natal cleft."
 

Vance Barnes
Senior Member
Username: Vancebarnes

Post Number: 3065
Registered: 03-2003
Posted on Tuesday, February 19, 2008 - 09:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

No beer sales on Sunday used to bother me in GA. Although it's not hard to stock up on Sat. since you know Sunday is always the next day. I guess some yokles don't figure that out though. Not you Bob, you were a newbie then.

Since I've started brewing I don't even think about it anymore. I always have beer on Sunday.

When I first moved to the county we live in now we went to a resturant on a Sunday and were told they couldn't serve alcohol. We got up and left and drove 10 minutes down the road to a different county where they could serve alcohol on Sunday. They wised up a few years ago and changed that as they were loosing a LOT of Sunday business as a result.

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