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Paul Hayslett
Senior Member
Username: Paulhayslett

Post Number: 1754
Registered: 02-2002
Posted on Thursday, September 04, 2008 - 03:35 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I've been feeling bad for Republicans today.

The "base" seems to think that a candidate's stance on abortion and gun rights is more important than her stance on the housing crisis, the economy, or a new cold war.

Fred Thompson seems to think that a major qualification for the most important job in America, and access to the nuke codes, is whether or not the candidate can field-dress a moose.

And the party leaders seem to think that no one will notice that aliens stole an honest, pragmatic, courageous, and truly moral man, someone who was respected even by his critics and rivals, and replaced him with a craven, cynical duplicate.

I may disagree with the Republican party on many issues and I can't say that I've ever voted Republican in a presidential election. But I respect the party and its members. They really, really deserve better than this.
 

Joakim Ruud
Senior Member
Username: Joques

Post Number: 1046
Registered: 10-2005
Posted on Thursday, September 04, 2008 - 09:23 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Battening down the hatches...
 

Paul Hayslett
Senior Member
Username: Paulhayslett

Post Number: 1755
Registered: 02-2002
Posted on Thursday, September 04, 2008 - 11:40 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Oh, I should probably state for the record that I'm none too pleased for the Dems either. I'm not a huge Obama fan and Biden is a two-time loser. Palin made more than a few valid points last night regarding Obama's lack of experience.

And the thought of coupling a Dem president with a filibuster-proof Dem majority in Congress gives me the willies; just like the early years of the Bush administration, there will be no brakes on the wacko fringe of the party. We seem to get the best government when President and Congress are from different parties and must compromise with each other.

Still, I agree with Peggy Noonan that the "magic of McCain was his lack of cynicism" and that he lost that when he picked Palin. I want the old McCain back, the one who talked straight and stood up for his beliefs. I don't recognize the new guy.
 

Joakim Ruud
Senior Member
Username: Joques

Post Number: 1047
Registered: 10-2005
Posted on Thursday, September 04, 2008 - 12:46 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'm very conflicted about Palin. She seems to be very strong in integrity, having worked hard against corruption, whether it is in her own party or elsewhere. That is admirable.

On the other hand, she really is on the far, far christian right fringe. Anytime somebody tries to inject religious values into politics, I shudder with antici..... No wait, that's something else. I fear for the safety of our world, is what I meant to say.

I don't think anybody questions her moral backbone, the problem is that a great many political problems can't be solved by moral conviction alone. You need an understanding of the underlying fundamentals of the problem to be able to solve them, not just moral conviction. To me she seems to have the latter in spades, but none of the former.
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 9178
Registered: 01-2002
Posted on Thursday, September 04, 2008 - 01:07 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The best I can say about Palin is that she's a fresh face. What disturbs me most about her is her certainty that her view on social issues is the only right one, coupled with some of her small-town values that thinly veil a kind of small-minded vindictiveness.

Paul, for the sake of discussion, what is it that bothers you about Obama?
 

Paul Hayslett
Senior Member
Username: Paulhayslett

Post Number: 1756
Registered: 02-2002
Posted on Thursday, September 04, 2008 - 01:31 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

First I should say what I DO like about Obama.

He has the potential to move us beyond the partisan warfare that has debilitated the US political sphere for 2 decades. Where Palin is a throwback to, "Everyone who disagrees with me is EVIL, there can be no compromise!", Obama is willing to act as if he respects the other side and listen to it. (For that matter, the "old" McCain was, too. Shame we lost him.)

Yet he's no Jimmy Carter. He can be effective. One thing the primaries showed was that he can put together an able team and manage it well. He won against long odds because he ran the best campaign we've seen in a long time. He fights hard and he never gives up.

And he's wicked smart. I don't subscribe to the position of "I want a President who's just like me." I'd be terrible at running the country. I want someone who is smarter and tougher and a better leader than me. Harvard Law Review may be elitist, but I want someone smart enough to write for it as President.

But I still can't shake the feeling that he is driven more by naked ambition than he'd have us believe. He has spent his entire life working to become President so he can, what? So he can say that he made it? So he can be in the history books? Is his goal to govern as President or just to win the election? Why does he want this job?

He has also never, ever stood up to his own party. He says he will work with the other side, but a lot of other Democrats do not want to. Does he really have the guts to "pull a Clinton" and tell his own side to get behind something that is good for the country even if it pissed off the teachers' union or some other sacred cow? I have doubts.
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 9179
Registered: 01-2002
Posted on Thursday, September 04, 2008 - 02:43 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

For that matter, Paul, John McCain no longer is able to stand up to his own party, either. He seems to have accepted that in order to obtain the nomination and support from mainstream Republicans, he has had to surrender much of his independence. Of course there are also those who would argue that this independence comes with an unpredictability and a penchant for occasionally saying and doing the wrong thing.

As for Obama, the naked ambition to occupy the White House seems not to be held against a candidate by most people. Many of the recent Presidents (certainly Bill Clinton among them) shared this trait. Why does Obama want to be President? I think because he truly is a "vision guy." He has an ability to inspire, which may be his greatest strength. One of my major underestimations of Ronald Reagan was to discount this talent. After 20 years of campaigns focusing on policy specifics and administrations emphasizing executive micromanagement and short-term objectives, perhaps it's time to look toward a farther timeline and a bigger picture. Furthermore, more than anyone else, Obama has the potential to restore America's image in the world. He represents many of the ideals people yearn for.

The people I know in Illinois almost universally respect (and most of them like) Obama. They say he listens well and has a quick understanding of issues; he searches for common ground. Now sometimes that has meant giving in to entrenched interests and a blunting of his principles, but I'm willing to give him a chance, especially after the performance of the current administration, which I honestly believe is a low point for my lifetime.
 

Paul Hayslett
Senior Member
Username: Paulhayslett

Post Number: 1757
Registered: 02-2002
Posted on Thursday, September 04, 2008 - 03:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

You make valid points, Bill, but he can't field-dress a moose! How the hell can we take a candidate seriously if he can't field-dress a moose? I mean, get real!

 

Chumley
Senior Member
Username: Chumley

Post Number: 5539
Registered: 02-2003
Posted on Thursday, September 04, 2008 - 03:50 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Someone needs to post a sticky on the main board that you guys are having this lovefest over here, so Bob Wall and Mike Huss can come over and enter the fray with their sarcastic hatred of everything left of Fox News.
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 9184
Registered: 01-2002
Posted on Thursday, September 04, 2008 - 04:22 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

All of this being said, I suspect the campaign will be waged largely on a personality basis. McCain has placated the Republican base with the choice of Palin (who will play the scrappy hockey mom), and he will focus on showing how he is a different animal than G.W. Bush and more like the ordinary voter than Obama. The challenge for Obama will be to see if he can inspire independents and blue-collar white voters as much as he has others in the Democratic base. I'm hoping the campaign is at least interesting and the results decisive enough to avoid what happened in 2000.

(Message edited by BillPierce on September 04, 2008)
 

Mike Huss
Senior Member
Username: Mikhu

Post Number: 1952
Registered: 03-2003
Posted on Thursday, September 04, 2008 - 04:49 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Here I am Chumley, just for you!

I LOVE the Palin choice. The old guard in the GOP hand picked W in 2000 over McCain and they don't like Palin. They would much rather he picked Romney or even Pawlenty. That alone is enough to get my vote.

As a bonus what we have now is a ticket with two people who won't continue to spend like a drunken sailor on leave like W has, who will actually try to cut spending for a change, and who will attempt to buck the spend and increase the deficit system. THAT is what I want in a GOP ticket.

Joakim, I know you fear everything religion based, but in its most simplistic form what is wrong with following the basic Christian values? Don't murder, don't screw around on your wife, don't steal, respect your elders, etc. In their basic form the principles of Christianity are a good guide for everyone to live by. Unfortunately the far right has hijacked those principles to fit their agenda and that's what has everyone scared. I still think it's a good guideline to live by, as long as you don't use it to push an agenda.

Remember, here in the US religious-based groups (Salvation Arm, food pantries, church groups, etc) do FAR more for the downtrodden than any forced income redistribution by the federal government. The only reason the government wants to take from the rich and give to the poor is to guarantee those votes. They don't care about the less fortunate other than getting their votes so they can get in/stay in power. You are quite naive if you think otherwise.
 

Chumley
Senior Member
Username: Chumley

Post Number: 5540
Registered: 02-2003
Posted on Thursday, September 04, 2008 - 04:54 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I think the Philadelphia Eagles are going to win the NFC East this year.
 

Mike Huss
Senior Member
Username: Mikhu

Post Number: 1953
Registered: 03-2003
Posted on Thursday, September 04, 2008 - 05:01 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I think you are smokin' dope.
 

Joakim Ruud
Senior Member
Username: Joques

Post Number: 1048
Registered: 10-2005
Posted on Thursday, September 04, 2008 - 05:25 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Mike, those values are not only basic Christian values, but also basic humanistic values. I wish Cristians would stop appropriationg those values, as if "we heathens" didn't hold them in very high regard indeed.

And it's not as if none of the other major religions don't preach those very same things.

The problems start up when _one_ religion is held to be the only true one, and that is integrated into the constitutional fabric of a state. Teaching creationism in school, for instance. Then you have the makings of Saudi Arabia. Nobody sane wants that, but there are nut-jobs that do. That's why I think it is absolutely vital to keep a strict separation between religion and state. (Which, incidentally, my own country hasn't realized yet - we have a state religion. Like it was the middle ages or something.)
 

Denny Conn
Senior Member
Username: Denny

Post Number: 6892
Registered: 01-2001
Posted on Thursday, September 04, 2008 - 05:31 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By JIM KUHNHENN, Associated Press Writer Wed Sep 3, 11:48 PM ET

ST. PAUL, Minn. - Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin and her Republican supporters held back little Wednesday as they issued dismissive attacks on Barack Obama and flattering praise on her credentials to be vice president. In some cases, the reproach and the praise stretched the truth.


Some examples:

PALIN: "I have protected the taxpayers by vetoing wasteful spending ... and championed reform to end the abuses of earmark spending by Congress. I told the Congress 'thanks but no thanks' for that Bridge to Nowhere."

THE FACTS: As mayor of Wasilla, Palin hired a lobbyist and traveled to Washington annually to support earmarks for the town totaling $27 million. In her two years as governor, Alaska has requested nearly $750 million in special federal spending, by far the largest per-capita request in the nation. While Palin notes she rejected plans to build a $398 million bridge from Ketchikan to an island with 50 residents and an airport, that opposition came only after the plan was ridiculed nationally as a "bridge to nowhere."

PALIN: "There is much to like and admire about our opponent. But listening to him speak, it's easy to forget that this is a man who has authored two memoirs but not a single major law or reform not even in the state senate."

THE FACTS: Compared to McCain and his two decades in the Senate, Obama does have a more meager record. But he has worked with Republicans to pass legislation that expanded efforts to intercept illegal shipments of weapons of mass destruction and to help destroy conventional weapons stockpiles. The legislation became law last year. To demean that accomplishment would be to also demean the work of Republican Sen. Richard Lugar of Indiana, a respected foreign policy voice in the Senate. In Illinois, he was the leader on two big, contentious measures in Illinois: studying racial profiling by police and requiring recordings of interrogations in potential death penalty cases. He also successfully co-sponsored major ethics reform legislation.

PALIN: "The Democratic nominee for president supports plans to raise income taxes, raise payroll taxes, raise investment income taxes, raise the death tax, raise business taxes, and increase the tax burden on the American people by hundreds of billions of dollars."

THE FACTS: The Tax Policy Center, a think tank run jointly by the Brookings Institution and the Urban Institute, concluded that Obama's plan would increase after-tax income for middle-income taxpayers by about 5 percent by 2012, or nearly $2,200 annually. McCain's plan, which cuts taxes across all income levels, would raise after tax-income for middle-income taxpayers by 3 percent, the center concluded.

Obama would provide $80 billion in tax breaks, mainly for poor workers and the elderly, including tripling the Earned Income Tax Credit for minimum-wage workers and higher credits for larger families.

He also would raise income taxes, capital gains and dividend taxes on the wealthiest. He would raise payroll taxes on taxpayers with incomes above $250,000, and he would raise corporate taxes. Small businesses that make more than $250,000 a year would see taxes rise.

MCCAIN: "She's been governor of our largest state, in charge of 20 percent of America's energy supply ... She's responsible for 20 percent of the nation's energy supply. I'm entertained by the comparison and I hope we can keep making that comparison that running a political campaign is somehow comparable to being the executive of the largest state in America," he said in an interview with ABC News' Charles Gibson.

THE FACTS: McCain's phrasing exaggerates both claims. Palin is governor of a state that ranks second nationally in crude oil production, but she's no more "responsible" for that resource than President Bush was when he was governor of Texas, another oil-producing state. In fact, her primary power is the ability to tax oil, which she did in concert with the Alaska Legislature. And where Alaska is the largest state in America, McCain could as easily have called it the 47th largest state by population.

MCCAIN: "She's the commander of the Alaska National Guard. ... She has been in charge, and she has had national security as one of her primary responsibilities," he said on ABC.

THE FACTS: While governors are in charge of their state guard units, that authority ends whenever those units are called to actual military service. When guard units are deployed to Iraq or Afghanistan, for example, they assume those duties under "federal status," which means they report to the Defense Department, not their governors. Alaska's national guard units have a total of about 4,200 personnel, among the smallest of state guard organizations.

FORMER ARKANSAS GOV. MIKE HUCKABEE: Palin "got more votes running for mayor of Wasilla, Alaska than Joe Biden got running for president of the United States."

THE FACTS: A whopper. Palin got 616 votes in the 1996 mayor's election, and got 909 in her 1999 re-election race, for a total of 1,525. Biden dropped out of the race after the Iowa caucuses, but he still got 76,165 votes in 23 states and the District of Columbia where he was on the ballot during the 2008 presidential primaries.

FORMER MASSACHUSETTS GOV. MITT ROMNEY: "We need change, all right change from a liberal Washington to a conservative Washington! We have a prescription for every American who wants change in Washington throw out the big-government liberals, and elect John McCain and Sarah Palin."

THE FACTS: A Back-to-the-Future moment. George W. Bush, a conservative Republican, has been president for nearly eight years. And until last year, Republicans controlled Congress. Only since January 2007 have Democrats have been in charge of the House and Senate.
 

Mike Huss
Senior Member
Username: Mikhu

Post Number: 1954
Registered: 03-2003
Posted on Thursday, September 04, 2008 - 05:50 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Not necessarily true Joakim. Yes, all major religions follow those basic moral values, I should have clarified that, but not all people do. For instance, anarchists certainly don't, and there are plenty of them in the world. The complete lack of respect for others like I see every day around town leads me to believe that many people don't have a firm grasp of what it takes to be a decent person.

I just wish people wouldn't instantly object when a politician professes their Christian faith. If they hold true to the core values of that faith they are showing that they want to be a moral and just person, that is all. Professing your Christian faith by no means insinuates you are a proponent of "death to the heathens"!

Just so you know, I consider myself a Christian but if I get to church once a year that's about it and I hate it when regular church goers preach at others like myself or non-believers. I'm leery of most organized religion because I fear it is all just a power trip, a money grab, or a glorified cult like all the new non-denominational churches that are popping up everywhere in the US.

I just wanted to clarify that, lest anyone think I'm a "go to church many days a week" pulpit pounder based on my earlier statements. I just think instant rejection of all things Christian is a mistake, and more people could live a better and more peaceful life if they followed those principles, whether they attribute them to religion or just basic human decency.
 

Mike Huss
Senior Member
Username: Mikhu

Post Number: 1955
Registered: 03-2003
Posted on Thursday, September 04, 2008 - 05:53 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

C'mon Denny, would you like me to post all the fact check articles that call foul from the Dem convention? You and I both know the convention speeches are full of half truths, exaggerations, and flat out lies to energize the base that is there.
 

Denny Conn
Senior Member
Username: Denny

Post Number: 6894
Registered: 01-2001
Posted on Thursday, September 04, 2008 - 05:57 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I agree with you, Mike. It happens on both sides and I abhor it equally no matter which side it comes from.
 

Mike Huss
Senior Member
Username: Mikhu

Post Number: 1956
Registered: 03-2003
Posted on Thursday, September 04, 2008 - 06:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Speaking of the conventions, I'm quite floored with how much convention coverage there is. Do people actually watch them? I'm a pretty big political junkie and I don't watch them at all. I can't believe I'm the only one that realizes they are just a big bunch of hot air from both sides?
 

Joakim Ruud
Senior Member
Username: Joques

Post Number: 1049
Registered: 10-2005
Posted on Thursday, September 04, 2008 - 06:14 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Mike, we are in absolute agreement on organized religion. And I have absolutely nothing against people who have a religious faith and keep it as a personal matter. It is the organized and politicized form I object to.

But: "Yes, all major religions follow those basic moral values, but not all people do. For instance, anarchists certainly don't"

Of course not all people do. But are you seriously suggesting that all religious people do? I'd be very surprised if the ratio of decentness were any different between Christians and atheists.

(Message edited by joques on September 04, 2008)
 

Hophead
Senior Member
Username: Hophead

Post Number: 2787
Registered: 03-2002
Posted on Thursday, September 04, 2008 - 06:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The cowboys will win the NFC east, and I'm a redskins fan, so that is painful to say.

Here's to the Patriots losing early in the season, so I don't have to listen to all the "perfect season" BS again this year.
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 9185
Registered: 01-2002
Posted on Thursday, September 04, 2008 - 06:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Mike, I'm not so sure McCain is as fiscally conservative as you would wish. He has backpedaled considerably since his opposition on fiscal grounds to the Bush tax cuts of 2001 and 2003.

My biggest disappointment in McCain has been on energy. He once favored tax credits for renewable energy, but seems to have given in to the oil interests, having missed a number of key votes in the past several years. His energy policy now focuses almost entirely on lifting drilling restrictions. Choosing Palin as his running mate all but gives the green light to Big Oil. She would be even more friendly to them than Cheney has been.

The Republicans have a narrow path to tread if they want to claim their own version of being the party of change. After all, they have held the White House for nearly eight years, and they were the majority party in at least one house of Congress from 1995 to 2007. Had Bush not invaded Iraq, they would still control the Senate.
 

HEU Brewer
Intermediate Member
Username: Heu_brewer

Post Number: 389
Registered: 01-2002
Posted on Thursday, September 04, 2008 - 06:38 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Politics, Religion and Sports all in one topic..

This should light up like a drought ridden pine forrest.
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 9186
Registered: 01-2002
Posted on Thursday, September 04, 2008 - 06:49 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

All we now need is the spark of a little sex. Apparently the teen pregnancy of Bristol Palin (in truth I agree with those who say a candidate's family should be almost entirely off limits) is not enough, even if New York Magazine described her boyfriend/fiance as "sex on skates."

Are there rumors of McCain and Obama casting glances at each other in the Senate men's room?

(Message edited by BillPierce on September 04, 2008)
 

Joakim Ruud
Senior Member
Username: Joques

Post Number: 1050
Registered: 10-2005
Posted on Thursday, September 04, 2008 - 06:52 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Pwaaahaaaahaaa! Bill, you just made my day :-)
 

Denny Conn
Senior Member
Username: Denny

Post Number: 6895
Registered: 01-2001
Posted on Thursday, September 04, 2008 - 07:12 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Bill, you devil!!!!! :-)
 

davidw
Senior Member
Username: Davidw

Post Number: 1838
Registered: 03-2001
Posted on Thursday, September 04, 2008 - 07:21 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sex! Now that you have my attention . . .

I would much rather see Governor Palin in a swimsuit than Senator Clinton. I'm certain that former President Clinton would agree 100% with me. Though, he probably had his eye more on Bristol last night. Good old Slick Willie. As predictable as US-05!

And since we're on the subject of football, the choice for President is obvious: I'm writing in Dennis Miller! He is the one, true fair and balanced reporter. Take that, John Madden! You fat old bastard, you!!
 

Robert
Member
Username: Okierat

Post Number: 184
Registered: 05-2003
Posted on Thursday, September 04, 2008 - 07:52 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hopehead, the Cowboys (Romo) will do what they have done the last two seasons. Impload at some point late and lose in the first round. Honestly I would not be suprised if they got third in the division.

Bill, that is a mental pic I did not need.
 

Paul Hayslett
Senior Member
Username: Paulhayslett

Post Number: 1758
Registered: 02-2002
Posted on Thursday, September 04, 2008 - 07:55 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Mike,

I have not watched much of the convention coverage. But I've scanned many of the speeches. Much more time-efficient that way. I can read a whole lot faster than those windbags can speak.

I did watch Obama's speech, though. I wanted my kids to see it, just for the historical aspect of him being the first non-white nominee and all that. My parents made me watch things like Nixon's resignation for the same reason. I found the speech disappointing. Too much "old politics"; way too many digs at McCain. It's hard to claim the mantle of "post-partisan politician" if you are still jabbing at the other side.

As for politcal Christianity in the US (as opposed to personal belief, or even organized, but apolitical, Christianity), I find that it too often fails to live by those same Christian (or Humanist) values you mention. It's leaders have been strong supporters of the death penalty and the use of military force, which doesn't fit with "do not kill", and rather hostile to income redistribution and globalization, which doesn't quite fit with "be good to the poor" and "be good to all people, not just your own kind". Political Christianity in this country has been too much about abortion and gay marriage and not enough about the worth and dignity of each individual.
 

Mike Huss
Senior Member
Username: Mikhu

Post Number: 1957
Registered: 03-2003
Posted on Thursday, September 04, 2008 - 07:57 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Too funny! First laugh @ Bill with the McCain/Obama comment, then David - that whole post was great!

Bill, none of them (except maybe Ron Paul) are as fiscally responsible as I wish. However, I have to take what I can get. Obama has zero wishes to cut spending from what I can see. At least McCain hints at trying to reduce spending.

Palin is open to all options when it comes to energy. That's all I can ask for. As has been said before, this talk about not drilling because it will take 10 years to have any affect is BS because they were saying that same thing 10 years ago. In terms of an energy plan for the future 10 years is but a blink of an eye.
 

Joakim Ruud
Senior Member
Username: Joques

Post Number: 1051
Registered: 10-2005
Posted on Thursday, September 04, 2008 - 08:01 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

In terms of an energy plan for the future, oil should go the way of the dinosaurs :-)
 

Paul Hayslett
Senior Member
Username: Paulhayslett

Post Number: 1759
Registered: 02-2002
Posted on Thursday, September 04, 2008 - 08:07 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Mike,

Any true cost-cutter in Washington is going to run into the same thing Newt Ginrich did: tax-payers may not want to pay for all the stuff government gives them, but they still want it. They don't really want smaller government. They just want someone else (foreign governments, "the rich", their own children and grandchildren) to foot the bill. Do any really shrinking of government in this country and you'll be out on your ass in no time.
 

Mike Huss
Senior Member
Username: Mikhu

Post Number: 1958
Registered: 03-2003
Posted on Thursday, September 04, 2008 - 09:02 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

But Paul, *I* want smaller government so that's why I will always end up voting for the lesser of two evils. I haven't been able to get myself to throw away a vote on a third party yet. I certainly will never vote for someone who promises more government involvement and handouts like Obama has been promising. I don't need another stinkin' tax cut, I need you to stop spending so dang much and promising so many services to so many people!

Joakim, I agree, alternate fuels are the way to go long term. However, any attempts at short term alternates have all been failures (see: ethanol). Alternate fuels need to be thoroughly thought out and not just subsidized to make them look good when they aren't (again, see: ethanol). In the short term we need to do SOMETHING to lessen our dependency on foreign oil. Drilling does that to some extent.
 

Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce

Post Number: 9190
Registered: 01-2002
Posted on Thursday, September 04, 2008 - 10:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

In an attempt to keep the tone of this thread (if not the language) in the gutter, I will relate a story about conservative Winston Churchill and his longtime socialist adversary in Parliament, Clement Attlee. Once after a long session of debate, both of these politicians found themselves in the men's room. Attlee was there first; Churchill entered afterwards and moved to a spot well away from his rival.

"Sir Winston," Attlee said, "we may be at odds with each other out there on the floor, but here where all men are equal you don't have to be quite so distant."

"That's the trouble with you socialists," Churchill replied. "Every time you see something big you want to nationalize it."
 

Chumley
Senior Member
Username: Chumley

Post Number: 5542
Registered: 02-2003
Posted on Friday, September 05, 2008 - 01:59 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hmmmm....after watching tonight's game......

I predict the Dallas Cowboys will place 3rd in the NFC East this season.
 

Ron Siddall
Advanced Member
Username: El_cid

Post Number: 593
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Friday, September 05, 2008 - 07:23 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

And I predict that whomever wins, nothing but continued bad things will happen.
 

Paul Hayslett
Senior Member
Username: Paulhayslett

Post Number: 1764
Registered: 02-2002
Posted on Friday, September 05, 2008 - 07:44 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are you referring to the election or the football games?
 

Robert
Member
Username: Okierat

Post Number: 185
Registered: 05-2003
Posted on Friday, September 05, 2008 - 09:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Bill, Churchill was never at a loss for words I do believe.
 

Joakim Ruud
Senior Member
Username: Joques

Post Number: 1053
Registered: 10-2005
Posted on Friday, September 05, 2008 - 09:44 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

-Sir, you are drunk!
-And you are ugly. But tomorrow, I will be sober.

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