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Message |
    
dhacker
Senior Member
Username: Dhacker
Post Number: 2059
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Friday, March 26, 2010 - 01:32 pm: | 
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Why are they always drawn to Montana?  |
Robert
Intermediate Member
Username: Okierat
Post Number: 293
Registered: 05-2003
| | Posted on Friday, March 26, 2010 - 01:54 pm: |
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Both Bush and Obama. Well at least he is an equal opportunity hater  |
Chumley
Senior Member
Username: Chumley
Post Number: 6082
Registered: 02-2003
| | Posted on Monday, March 29, 2010 - 04:20 pm: |
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As the article notes, they only go to Montana after they get booted out of Utah and Idaho.
After they get booted out of Montana, its either jail or Alaska. If they do go to Alaska, they find that its too cold, and realize that they need to temper their ways.
So then they move to California. |
dhacker
Senior Member
Username: Dhacker
Post Number: 2064
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Monday, March 29, 2010 - 09:18 pm: |
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Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce
Post Number: 11520
Registered: 01-2002
| | Posted on Monday, March 29, 2010 - 09:29 pm: |
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Surely there's an island somewhere (perhaps in the Aleutians) that could become a reservation for these people who want to turn their backs on government and civilization as we know it. Exempt them from most taxes and all but the basic criminal laws, but make it clear to them that they're on their own to survive with virtually no services provided. And charge them a "reconnection" fee if they decide they're had enough of rugged individualism and wish to return. |
Bob Wall
Senior Member
Username: Brewdudebob
Post Number: 3111
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Monday, March 29, 2010 - 10:48 pm: |
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Good idea Bill! Josef Stalin and Chairman Mao would be proud of you for fostering their ideas. Just sprinkle in some Zyklon-B and you would add a smile to Hitler's face too. |
Joakim Ruud
Senior Member
Username: Joques
Post Number: 1697
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 30, 2010 - 12:11 am: |
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Bob, you really shouldn't post when you're drunk. |
Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce
Post Number: 11521
Registered: 01-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 30, 2010 - 01:08 am: |
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Wait a minute, Bob. I may have been guilty of positing something of a "modest proposal," but images of gulags, the Holocaust and the Cultural Revolution are overkill here. |
Bob Wall
Senior Member
Username: Brewdudebob
Post Number: 3112
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 30, 2010 - 01:30 am: |
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So...the idea of taking citizens that you do not agree with and concentrating them in a confined area without their consent is a "modest proposal?"
Sounds like Bill is the one who should not PWD. |
Dan Listermann
Senior Member
Username: Listermann
Post Number: 7047
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 30, 2010 - 01:31 am: |
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Imagine the whining if you gave them what they demand. . . |
Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce
Post Number: 11522
Registered: 01-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 30, 2010 - 01:46 am: |
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Bob, my post was less than serious, and I neither said nor implied that people should be rounded up involuntarily. If that were the case, we might as well add what happened to Japanese-Americans during World War II to your list of horrors in your post above.
No, what I had in mind was more akin to America's 19th century tradition of utopian communities. I acknowledge that many of them were socialist in their philosophy, as opposed to today's groups that tend to be much more strongly libertarian. But perhaps they might flourish, or at least be less hostile, if they were given a place and the opportunity to practice what they preach. |
Bob Wall
Senior Member
Username: Brewdudebob
Post Number: 3113
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 30, 2010 - 01:52 am: |
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"we might as well add what happened to Japanese-Americans during World War II to your list of horrors in your post above"
That wouldn't be much of a stretch either Bill, after all, Roosevelt was a liberal Democrat. So there IS a track-record. |
Joakim Ruud
Senior Member
Username: Joques
Post Number: 1698
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 30, 2010 - 02:13 am: |
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Bill, you need to take a different tack when you argue with Bob. Especially when he's drunk and belligerent. Don't assume he'll argue like a rational human being, just go straight to the roots of his delusions and expose how weak his premise is, and that'll usually shut him up post haste. |
Bob Wall
Senior Member
Username: Brewdudebob
Post Number: 3114
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 30, 2010 - 03:11 am: |
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So Joakim, tell me where I am off base. Did Bill not suggest we round people up and ship them off elsewhere? He even used the word "reservation." We all know how that worked out for the Native Americans...just peachy.
I used the analogy of the Russian Gulags and the Red Chinese re-education camps to slap Bill one across the chops for posting such a hostile and stupid idea...even if I know he didn't really mean it. It was a horrible thing to consider, and Bill should know better.
Just think for a moment how you all would howl if I had suggested a similar solution for those radicals who perennially disrupt the G-20 summits?
"Anarchy? you want Anarchy? Here you go! Here's your deserted Island! Fend for yourselves"
If I said something like that, You'd be hootin' and hollerin' and jumping around like a bunch of Kansas City faggots. (apologies to Slim Pickens)
Yeah Joakim, Bill should definitely take a different tack. He should stop posting horribly divisive ideas if he wants to be taken serious.
And Joakim, how is being offended by the idea of modern-day gulags and concentration camps a weak premise? You may think I made a quantum leap with my analogy, but trust me, it wasn't. Bill engaged in the kind of talk that demonizes "the other." When it is o.k. to refer to "the other" in terms that would be inappropriate to use in your own social group, you have the roots of hatred. |
Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce
Post Number: 11523
Registered: 01-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 30, 2010 - 03:24 am: |
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OK, Bob, "reservation" was a poor choice; as you say, it has connotations that should be avoided. But even if you took me seriously, I never suggested that such a place would be anything but a voluntary home for those who wished to practice their political and social views. |
Bob Wall
Senior Member
Username: Brewdudebob
Post Number: 3115
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 30, 2010 - 03:33 am: |
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Bill, I believe you. But you must recognize that kind of talk is a slippery slope. Nobody is perfect, and believe it or not, even I say some things that are a little over the top  |
Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce
Post Number: 11524
Registered: 01-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 30, 2010 - 10:31 am: |
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Fair enough, Bob. I, too, acknowledge that I may have been over the top in my attempts at humor Now let's relax, don't worry and have a homebrew. I'll forgo the group hug and singing of "Kumbaya."  |
Joakim Ruud
Senior Member
Username: Joques
Post Number: 1699
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 30, 2010 - 01:09 pm: |
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Uh no, he did not suggest anybody would be rounded up, he merely made the facetious suggestion that maybe people who vehemently oppose government interference might want to experience what life is like with no government interference. You know, voluntarily - as suggested by there being a fee if they wanted back in.
The thing that cracks me up about you Bob is that every time somebody calls you on your "horribly divisive" posts, you tell them to lighten up and stop being such a thin-skinned liberal. Somebody else makes a humorous suggestion, and you compare them to the worst dictators in modern history. Even nazi death camps!! Who's thin-skinned now?
Oh, freedom of expression only goes one way, is that it?
And that old straw man of "if we said this and that, there'd be howls of derision" is just not cutting it any more. You can say it all you want, but that doesn't make it any more true.
(Message edited by joques on March 30, 2010) |
Bob Wall
Senior Member
Username: Brewdudebob
Post Number: 3117
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 30, 2010 - 03:45 pm: |
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Hey Joakim, I have a novel idea, how about for those that do not want Government interference, the Government just stops interfering? You know, voluntarily.
Humorous suggestion? Is that what you call it when you want to physically remove people you don't like? History has another name for that...
Freedom of expression is also the freedom to be called stupid when you express a stupid idea. |
Joakim Ruud
Senior Member
Username: Joques
Post Number: 1700
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 30, 2010 - 04:40 pm: |
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Man, I can't deal with your paranoia. Physically remove people? You misunderstood Bill in the worst way and went off the rails. Let's leave it at that.
"Freedom of expression is also the freedom to be called stupid when you express a stupid idea."
Absolutely  |
Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce
Post Number: 11528
Registered: 01-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 30, 2010 - 04:40 pm: |
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Bob, the debate over the role and nature of the government goes back well before the founding of the United States, and of course was a major feature of its early years. There is a lot of room for a range of opinions even today. However, it seems to me that some groups are so much at odds with the prevailing interpretations of these issues that they might be better off leaving the larger society to practice a lifestyle more closely aligned with their philosophy. Perhaps we have even been remiss in not providing them with a place to do so.
There, I've stripped all the satire and humor from what I said that caused you to take issue with it. |
Dan Listermann
Senior Member
Username: Listermann
Post Number: 7048
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 30, 2010 - 04:52 pm: |
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Bill, wait for the strawman. It is coming! |
Chumley
Senior Member
Username: Chumley
Post Number: 6086
Registered: 02-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 30, 2010 - 05:41 pm: |
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Well said, Joakim.
Bob, you're an idiot.
I have a better idea for Bill's suggestion....lets call it "Texas". The Lone Star Republic. Lets let Texas secede, and allow anti-government crackpots move there. We can let the normal Texans (from Austin and the like) move to the remaining 49 states. Then everyone would be happy. |
Dan Listermann
Senior Member
Username: Listermann
Post Number: 7049
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 30, 2010 - 06:02 pm: |
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Somalia has lots of guns and no real government. |
davidwaite
Senior Member
Username: Davidw
Post Number: 2064
Registered: 03-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 30, 2010 - 07:27 pm: |
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I didn't realize that Theodore Kaczynski had a cabin in Texas? |
Bob Wall
Senior Member
Username: Brewdudebob
Post Number: 3118
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 30, 2010 - 07:31 pm: |
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I see Tweedle Dan and Tweedle Chum have piped in with their moronic comments.
Since forced re-locations seem to be all the rage on this board, How about we just take all the Liberals and ship them off to Venezuela and Cuba? I think they would be much happier there. After all, those countries are the liberal ideal aren't they? |
Dan Listermann
Senior Member
Username: Listermann
Post Number: 7050
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 30, 2010 - 07:34 pm: |
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"Forced re-locations" is your strawman, Bob. Nobody but you brought that up. |
Bob Wall
Senior Member
Username: Brewdudebob
Post Number: 3119
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 30, 2010 - 07:42 pm: |
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Sorry Dan, Bill suggested it by using the word "reservation" he even admitted "it has connotations that should be avoided" |
Dan Listermann
Senior Member
Username: Listermann
Post Number: 7051
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 30, 2010 - 07:56 pm: |
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But you, Bob, are the only one who used the word "forced." It is called a "strawman" and it is not a good thing to do. Sorry to see it, but it is way too common among the Teabaggers. More and more, they seem like the rantings of children. The only thing missing is them laying on their backs and flailing their arms and legs. |
Bob Wall
Senior Member
Username: Brewdudebob
Post Number: 3120
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 30, 2010 - 08:06 pm: |
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"rantings of children"
Like Cindy Sheehan? Like Code Pink? Like the SEIU? Like MoveOn.org? I can go on... |
Dan Listermann
Senior Member
Username: Listermann
Post Number: 7052
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 30, 2010 - 08:12 pm: |
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Rantings of children, Bob. Even if you gave them exactly what they want, they would just continue raving about something else. They seem to like the raving process. Citing other small examples is not the same as denying that my statement is true. Try that, if you can. |
Bob Wall
Senior Member
Username: Brewdudebob
Post Number: 3121
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 30, 2010 - 08:52 pm: |
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I cannot change the myopic lens in which you view the world Dan, you are going to have to do that yourself. You can feel free to characterize and denigrate the Tea Party folks any way you like, but that does not make it so. How about just calling them a bunch of racist tea-baggers? That is a whole lot easier than defending Obama's Socialist agenda. |
Brewzz
Advanced Member
Username: Brewzz
Post Number: 789
Registered: 03-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 31, 2010 - 12:11 am: |
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Woah!It's getting deep in here......
I think I'll stay outta this one...
Brewzz [pc] |
Dan Listermann
Senior Member
Username: Listermann
Post Number: 7053
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 31, 2010 - 12:15 am: |
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Bob, to what degree do you consider yourself, to be polite I suppose, a member of the Tea Party? |
Bob Wall
Senior Member
Username: Brewdudebob
Post Number: 3123
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 31, 2010 - 12:54 am: |
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So I see you have no problem with the anonymous Chumbucket's name calling? I see. Selective outrage. |
Dan Listermann
Senior Member
Username: Listermann
Post Number: 7054
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 31, 2010 - 12:56 am: |
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Bob, are you trying to divert the subject? |
Denny Conn
Senior Member
Username: Denny
Post Number: 7387
Registered: 01-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 31, 2010 - 04:32 pm: |
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""rantings of children"
Like Cindy Sheehan? Like Code Pink? Like the SEIU? Like MoveOn.org? I can go on..."
Yes, very much like that. It's amazing to me how much the conservatives these days are whining like the liberals did a few years ago. I remember during Iraq war protests hearing Hannity say "the pres. doesn't rule by public opinion." Yet now, he and other conservatives want Obama to do just that. It's like they're saying 2 wrongs DO make a right. So much hypocrisy, on both sides, and all they can do is point fingers at each other. |
Dan Listermann
Senior Member
Username: Listermann
Post Number: 7055
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 31, 2010 - 04:58 pm: |
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"SEIU" - Service Employees International Union? |
Bob Wall
Senior Member
Username: Brewdudebob
Post Number: 3124
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 31, 2010 - 05:01 pm: |
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Denny,
I see your point. There is hypocricy on both sides. The Tea Party movement is being unfairly portrayed as anti-government, when they are really anti-BIG Government. And from my perspective, the MSM is complicit in the Left's villification of the Tea Party movement. People on the left love to condemn Fox News, but I hear crickets when the spin-machine in firing on all eight for the Left. Not only do they misrepresent the truth, they spin it into an image that is full of their opinion and prejudice.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TL_saVRKF-M
And then there is juvenile reporting like this from MSNBC:
http://www.eyeblast.tv/public/video.aspx?v=ydSU6UaGaG
But what do I know...I am just an idiot, or maybe I just need some Kool-Aid? |
Denny Conn
Senior Member
Username: Denny
Post Number: 7388
Registered: 01-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 31, 2010 - 05:01 pm: |
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Yeah, they're insidious..... |
Bob Wall
Senior Member
Username: Brewdudebob
Post Number: 3125
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 31, 2010 - 05:18 pm: |
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Not insidious. Just complicit. |
Dan Listermann
Senior Member
Username: Listermann
Post Number: 7056
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 31, 2010 - 05:20 pm: |
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Talk about
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TL_saVRKF-M
for me. Can you defend any of the activities reported? I know they totally failed to report on the Republican grandmothers who spent the week knitting, but what of the ones on the report.
(Message edited by listermann on March 31, 2010) |
Denny Conn
Senior Member
Username: Denny
Post Number: 7389
Registered: 01-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 31, 2010 - 05:25 pm: |
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So then, Bob, will you admit that Fox News is just as biased as the "MSM"? Do you see that it's 2 sides of the same coin, just with a different point of view? Do you see that the Heritage Foundation is just the other side of MoveOn? |
Dan Listermann
Senior Member
Username: Listermann
Post Number: 7057
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 31, 2010 - 05:30 pm: |
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"MSM" is anything but Faux. |
Bob Wall
Senior Member
Username: Brewdudebob
Post Number: 3126
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 31, 2010 - 06:23 pm: |
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Hardly Denny. Show me proof of bias from Fox on their NEWS reports. You will have to dig pretty deep. Talking Head Opinion shows Like O'Reilly and Hannity do not count.
Olberman, Kouric, Schuster, Curry, Sawyer, Lauer, and a laundry list of others try to pass themselves off as unbiased reporters at the same time they merely toe the party line and parrot the talking points of the Democrat party. Hell, George Snuffleuffagus used to be Clinton's Press Secretary.
While I agree that Fox is basically a conservative forum, they do not spin the news and try to fool people like the other outlets blatantly do. |
Denny Conn
Senior Member
Username: Denny
Post Number: 7390
Registered: 01-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 31, 2010 - 06:27 pm: |
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Bob, I don't think you can SHOW me bias in any of those, either (okay, Olberman is an idiot, we can agree). You've already made up your mind, like you did about NPR, without doing the research. If you watched both sides whit an open mind, you might be surprised. |
Dan Listermann
Senior Member
Username: Listermann
Post Number: 7058
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 31, 2010 - 07:16 pm: |
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Denny, they are "MSM." By definition, they are biased. Bob will explain. |
Bob Wall
Senior Member
Username: Brewdudebob
Post Number: 3127
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 31, 2010 - 08:33 pm: |
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Wait a minute Denny...I have been tuning into NPR lately. I said I would, and I have been. I must say, NPR is more dull and boring than they are biased. Is it a pre-requisite for all on-air employees to be overdosed on prozac? How many "pregnant pauses" can you squeeze into one hour of air-time? All kidding aside, I have heard some good commentary and some articles that go in-depth. But they also will run "Delicious Dish" style fluff-pieces when I want to hear more hard news, so I flip the dial. I think that segment is called "Dead Air?"
Dan, you are an idiot. |
Dan Listermann
Senior Member
Username: Listermann
Post Number: 7059
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 31, 2010 - 08:38 pm: |
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Bob, you are going to have to try much harder than that to successfully insult me. I doubt that you are capable of such a feat. I have been insulted by the very best! |
Bob Wall
Senior Member
Username: Brewdudebob
Post Number: 3128
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 31, 2010 - 11:06 pm: |
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Dan, that is actually a compliment. |
Dan Listermann
Senior Member
Username: Listermann
Post Number: 7060
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, April 01, 2010 - 01:41 am: |
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There! You almost did it! Give it another go. |
Bob Wall
Senior Member
Username: Brewdudebob
Post Number: 3129
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, April 01, 2010 - 02:47 am: |
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$10.00 says Dan replies to this comment. |
Chumley
Senior Member
Username: Chumley
Post Number: 6088
Registered: 02-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, April 01, 2010 - 03:43 am: |
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I like Dan. |
Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce
Post Number: 11534
Registered: 01-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, April 01, 2010 - 03:56 am: |
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Boys, give it a rest. |
Robert
Intermediate Member
Username: Okierat
Post Number: 294
Registered: 05-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, April 01, 2010 - 01:08 pm: |
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After careful consideration I have come to the conclusion that the world is nuts. I therefore appoint my self supreme overlord. My first order is for everyone to sit down and have a beer. If you don't then I will hit you in the back of the head with my mash paddle. |
Dan Listermann
Senior Member
Username: Listermann
Post Number: 7061
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, April 01, 2010 - 01:48 pm: |
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"$10.00 says Dan replies to this comment."
Pathetic. You owe me $10. |
Bob Wall
Senior Member
Username: Brewdudebob
Post Number: 3130
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, April 01, 2010 - 03:22 pm: |
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Next time I see you... |
Denny Conn
Senior Member
Username: Denny
Post Number: 7391
Registered: 01-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, April 01, 2010 - 04:38 pm: |
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"Wait a minute Denny...I have been tuning into NPR lately. I said I would, and I have been."...good on ya, Bob! |
Nephalist
Intermediate Member
Username: Nephi
Post Number: 289
Registered: 12-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, April 04, 2010 - 03:56 pm: |
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I've been listening to NPR more frequently these days. It was slow at times with very quiet hosts. But the stories are more in depth. What's more important is that the stories pique my curiosity and that I move beyond the single source of information (NPR) and use this amazing resource (web) to find more varied interpretations and opinions (and sometimes facts). Just like wikipedia. An easy to use primer for almost any subject. But don't bet the bank on it. Move beyond and check other sources.
Bill, they (NPR) reviewed that book Everybody owes everybody. Did you ever read it? |
Bill Pierce
Moderator
Username: Billpierce
Post Number: 11545
Registered: 01-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, April 04, 2010 - 05:39 pm: |
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Nephi, I did indeed read the book (http://www.amazon.com/I-O-U-Why-Everyone-Owes-One/dp/1439169845). It's relatively short (just over 200 pages) and thought-provoking. John Lanchester applies a literary novelist's skills to the current economic crisis. His analysis is basically political. He believes the causes are rooted in the end of the Cold War, which was more of an economic conflict than anything else. With the defeat of communism (of the few remaining Communist countries, only North Korea and Cuba have not abandoned their planned economies), there was no longer an (imagined as much as real) enemy to check the worst excesses of rampant capitalism. What happened in 2008 is the result.
His views about the rescue are insightful as well. He claims the financial industry was able to privatize the profits for itself, but then forced governments to step in and socialize the losses in order to prevent a global economic collapse. We are all paying the price. |
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