HOMEBREW Digest #1012 Fri 13 November 1992

Digest #1011 Digest #1013

		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator

  Weihenstephan (Alan B. Carlson)
  Roasting malted barley (Donald_James)
  Roasting malted barley (Donald_James)
  Roasting malted barley (Donald_James)
  Sam Adams Triple Bock (JEROMED)
  CORN SUGAR ("Spencer W. Thomas")
  Sad Tidings from the Natural State (MPLOTT)
  Hop Back vs Dry Hopping (oehler)
  Aluminum pots, Wyeast purity (The Ice-9-man Cometh)
  corn starch/corn sugar/corn syrup (Tony Babinec)
  Brewpub/Micro list (JIM MCNUTT)
  Rehydrating yeast (James P. Buchman)
  A New Variable! (Martin A. Lodahl)
  Re:  Wyeast 1056 Problems (Jim Scott)
  Wyeast Bavarian Lager problem (CW06GST)
  rec.craft.brewing (Estes)
  Stainless Steel Pots 8-10 gallon ("David E. Dickson")
  Re: Roasted Crystal/US-UK Sugars/Diacetyl/Why rack so early? (korz)
  Anchor Porter questions (Guy D. McConnell)
  Pub List Update (jmellby)
  West Virginia brew? (Guy D. McConnell)
  Pilsner Recipes? (Mike Mahler)
  Cooking the wheat in witbiers (STROUD)
  John Bull Master (Pislner) Kit (Mike Mahler)
  Difference?? (Brian Michael Cors)
  Hops? (David Suda)
  kegging v.s bottling, try2  (Bill Moyer)
  Real Ale from a Carboy(?) (Pat Lasswell)
  Efficiency vs Winners (Jack Schmidling)
  What would you call this ale?  (Mike Mahler)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 09:40:56 +0100 From: Alan B. Carlson <alanc at cs.chalmers.se> Subject: Weihenstephan I saw a discussion about using Weihenstephan yeast awhile back. Can one cultivate the dregs at the bottom of a bottle of Weihenstephan beer? If that is possible, what procedure should I use? ABC - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Alan B. Carlson Phone: +46 31 772 10 73 Chalmers University of Technology UUCP: alanc at cs.chalmers.se Department of Computer Sciences S-412 96 Gothenburg SWEDEN - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 7:08 EST From: Donald_James at vos.stratus.com Subject: Roasting malted barley Homebrew, I would like to know the procedure to roast pale malted barley to create various specility grains, ei, roasted, chocolate, and black. I need the temperature/time requirements and any other pertinent information. Also, I would like to know how to produce crystal and cara_pill grains from barley. I'm finding it difficult to buy light crystal in my area. Thanks, Don James Stratus Computer Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 7:09 EST From: Donald_James at vos.stratus.com Subject: Roasting malted barley homebrew, I would like to know the procedure to roast pale malted barley to create various specility grains, ei, roasted, chocolate, and black. I need the temperature/time requirements and any other pertinent information. Also, I would like to know how to produce crystal and cara_pill grains from barley. I'm finding it difficult to buy light crystal in my area. Thanks, Don James Stratus Computer Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 7:08 EST From: Donald_James at vos.stratus.com To: homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com Subject: Roasting malted barley Homebrew, I would like to know the procedure to roast pale malted barley to create various specility grains, ei, roasted, chocolate, and black. I need the temperature/time requirements and any other pertinent information. Also, I would like to know how to produce crystal and cara_pill grains from barley. I'm finding it difficult to buy light crystal in my area. Thanks, Don James Stratus Computer Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 7:10 EST From: Donald_James at vos.stratus.com Subject: Roasting malted barley Homebrew, I would like to know the procedure to roast pale malted barley to create various specialty grains, ei, roasted, chocolate, and black. I need the temperature/time requirements and any other pertinent information. Also, I would like to know how to produce crystal and cara_pill grains from barley. I'm finding it difficult to buy light crystal in my area. Thanks, Don James Stratus Computer Return to table of contents
Date: 12 Nov 92 12:51:00 WET From: JEROMED at fsdec3.wtp.gtefsd.com Subject: Sam Adams Triple Bock For those of you who live near Boston (or will visit soon), Doyle's (in Jamaica Plain) has a batch of Sam Adams Triple Bock. I was told that the beer is about 10% alcohol, and from the sample I tried I would have to say that was accurate. It reminded me of Thomas Hardy Ale, although I haven't tried that in a while. According to one of the owners of Doyle's, only three barrels were produced and they have all three. Some of the beer was bottled and is available at the Union Oyster House in Boston. Dave Jerome Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 09:10:33 EST From: "Spencer W. Thomas" <Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu> Subject: CORN SUGAR Terminology: US "corn" = rest of world "maize". Corn Sugar is dextrose. I'm really not sure what the UK equivalent would be. Corn Syrup is (I think) a very heavy solution of dextrose in water (but could include some other sugars). It usually is clear, but can be gotten in a "dark" variety that is a medium, clear brown color. Probably just has caramel coloring added. Corn Starch is just that -- the starch extracted from corn (maize). It's a very fine powder, with no graininess/grittiness at all. If we have something called corn flour (terminology varies from one part of the country to another), it would probably be what I call "corn meal" - -- ground hard corn kernels. =S Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 09:36:30 EST From: MPLOTT at ucs.indiana.edu Subject: Sad Tidings from the Natural State Hi, My wife and I were planning on purchasing some homebrew startup equipment as a wedding gift for friends in our home state of Arkansas. While talking with them last night, however, they claimed that homebrewing is ILLEGAL in Arkansas. Does anyone know if this is true? If it is, what can we do about it? Thanks, Michael Plott MPLOTT at UCS.INDIANA.EDU Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 09:31:05 EST From: oehler at smpvax.dnet.ge.com Subject: Hop Back vs Dry Hopping Good Morning HBD'ers, Recently, there has been a thread about Hop Backs. The first time I heard about a Hop Back was in the recent Zymurgy Special Issue (Gadgets), so I obviously have no experience with them. Hence, this posting. As I understand it, a hop back is used to impart a wonderful Hop Aroma and Flavor to one's beer. When is it used (before or after fermentation)? How does this technique compare to Dry Hopping (do they do the same thing)? I've always used hop pellets during boil and have never been really satisfied with my hop nose or flavor. Recently, I tried a Pete's Wicked Ale from a micro in Minnesota (Montana? Well, large state that begins with M) whose name escapes me. I was VERY impressed with both the wonderful hop aroma and flavor in this ale. Now I really know what I've been missing. What's the best way to get this? Will a hop back or dry hopping do this? Better living through Zymurgy, Pete Oehler Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 8:51:12 -0600 (CST) From: SMITH at EPVAX.MSFC.NASA.GOV (The Ice-9-man Cometh) Subject: Aluminum pots, Wyeast purity hey folks. Last weekend I was about to start a batch o'stout, so I pre-boiled 4 gal. of water and put it in a carboy to cool overnight. I boiled tap water in my 12-quart aluminum pot for 10 minutes for each of 2 batches. The resulting water was cloudy, with scum on top (my tap water is clear when it comes out). The next morning, the cloudiness had mostly settled into a layer of furry white precipitate at the bottom. The local water chemist thought this stuff was CaCO3 but I don't understand why it came out of solution. Maybe the water was acidic and the aluminum catalyzed some sort of reaction? "Dammit Jim, I'm a rocket scientist, not a chemist!" :) Anyway, my reaction was to hit the local restaurant supply house and buy a Vollrath 12-qt stainless pot (for $17.67, pththth, gotta love used equipment). Someday I'll find a huge pot and go for full boil, someday. About yeast: I've been brewing with Edme for a couple of years now with no infections. So of course, the first time I try Wyeast, I get little white rings in all my bottles. Bleah. I'm going back to Edme; I couldn't taste any difference before the rings appeared, either. I don't know where this "switching to liquid yeast improved my beer 100%" business came from but it sure didn't do much for me.... | James W. Smith, NASA MSFC EP-53 | SMITH at epvax.msfc.nasa.gov | | "Come with us, we'll sail the Seas of Cheese!" -- Les.Claypool at Primus | | Neither NASA nor (!James) is responsible for what I say. Mea culpa. | Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 9:53:50 CST From: tony at spss.com (Tony Babinec) Subject: corn starch/corn sugar/corn syrup First, let's be clear on "corn." Corn is the American cereal plant "Zea mays." What we call corn you might know as maize. Corn starch is literally that. It is widely available. You can use it in recipes that call for corn, in lew of using flaked maize. Just measure some, and sprinkle it in your mash. American brewers use corn for a "smoother" flavor in their beers, although the fact that it costs less than malt probably has something to do with it. >From reading Roger Protz's "Real Ale Almanac," it's clear that some English brewers use corn in addition to malt. Corn sugar is "dextrose" or "glucose." It is commonly used for priming at bottling time. It can be added to the boil to increase the gravity, and it ferments completely. Corn syrup is also refined from corn. It comes in syrup form, and its contents may vary. For example, there is "high fructose corn syrup." In food processing, corn syrup is used as a sweetener in lew of cane sugar or beet sugar. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 11:04:18 EST From: JIM MCNUTT <INJM%MCGILLB.BITNET at VM1.MCGILL.CA> Subject: Brewpub/Micro list TO: GLW at GRANJON.ATT.COM I can't access your email address from Montreal, but I saw your note re: a brewpub/micro list which was available from "alt.beer". What is "alt.beer" and how do I access it. Thanks. Jim McNutt Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 10:40:44 EST From: James P. Buchman <buchman at marva2.ENET.dec.com> Subject: Rehydrating yeast > New topic: I've been using Edme dried yeast ever since Whitbred quit > making dried yeast a few months back. For my last few batches, I've > been hydrating the yeast prior to pitching, but haven't tried making a > starter. Perhaps it works "too well" without one: I'm looking for > opinions. Before pitching Edme or Whitbread ale yeasts, I always rehydrate by adding the yeast to a cup of boiled water which has been cooled to 100 F. In half an hour, the yeast solution is rehydrated and resembles white froth, and is ready for pitching. My starts using this method have always been fast. I would still recommend starters for liquid yeast, however, since it is not necessarily as hardy as yeast which can survive dehydrating. An article was posted on yeast hydration some months ago, which I can dig up if you like. It was felt that the presence of sugars and nutrients in the wort would actually be detrimental to yeast in the rehydration phase; something to do with the cell walls. Good luck, Jim Buchman Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 8:26:02 PST From: Martin A. Lodahl <pbmoss!malodah at PacBell.COM> Subject: A New Variable! In this morning's mail I had a response to my posting on pouring plates in HBD 1011. Cush Hamlen has been doing similar work, and observed: > The last batch I made used one tablespoon of Agar to one cup of > wort. I found the resulting gelatine to be too soft: the slants > had A LOT fluid in them, and the gel actually started to sag (i.e. > not keep the slant shape). Also, the yeast managed to get *under* > the gel as the stuff started to develop cracks. > > I had decided to make another batch using TWO tablespoons of Agar > per cup of wort. But here you come saying to use one *teaspoon* > of agar for 375 ml (where a cup is about 250ml)! This brings up a factor that had frankly eluded me altogether: the variability of food-grade (as opposed to lab-grade) agar. All of the agar I've used in the last few years has come from a single shop and has performed consistently, but that doesn't at all mean that everyone's agar will perform the same way. You may have to experiment a bit. Another thought that occurs to me is that storage conditions can have a considerable effect on the agar. I live in an area with fairly low relative humidity year-round, and I keep my slants and plates in the 'fridge except when incubating right after inoculation. When I first started culturing I kept everything at room temperature all the time, and in the dry heat of Sierra foothill summer I had problems with the agar shrinking and cracking. The sagging may be a humidity effect, but we don't have much of that here. Anyhow, as I should have said in my original post, your mileage may vary; experiment. = Martin A. Lodahl Pacific*Bell Systems Analyst = = malodah at pbmoss.Pacbell.COM Sacramento, CA 916.972.4821 = = If it's good for ancient Druids, runnin' nekkid through the wuids, = = Drinkin' strange fermented fluids, it's good enough for me! 8-) = Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 11:36:52 EST From: Jim Scott <jws at hpuerca.atl.hp.com> Subject: Re: Wyeast 1056 Problems In HOMEBREW Digest #1011 gcw at granjon.att.com wrote about his problem with Wyeast 1056. Last month I had the same problem also with a fresh package. I poured in the puffed up package into my starter, the next day no apparent activity but alot of trub left behind. Since I had 5 gallons of wort just aching to start bubbling I shook up the starter and poured it in. Twelve hours later things were going nicely with a 1/2 inch layer of foam and growing. And yes the beer is good. - --------- Jim Scott Hewlett Packard jws at hpuerca.atl.hp.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 12:02:00 EST From: CW06GST <CW06GST%SJUMUSIC.bitnet at CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU> Subject: Wyeast Bavarian Lager problem Thanks to all of you who responded to my last post about Wyeast Bavarian Lager. Happily, the beer is now fermenting. Apparently, from what everyone has told me, the yeast probably went into temperature shock. The yeast was pitched at 70 deg. and then put into a 45 deg. fridge. I should have cooled the wort to a lower temperature before ptching the yeast, and had the fridge at a higher temperature. Say, cool wort to 60 and put in 55 deg fridge. Please correct me if I'm wrong. The wort is now bubbling away at room temperature. My question now is, should I ferment in primary at room temp. or can I now put the beer in the fridge while active fermentation is taking place? If I let the active fermentation take place at room temperature, can I then place directly in fridge for lagering or should I rack to a secondary vessel before putting in fridge? Alternately, I could just ferment at room temp and forget about lagering and make a steam beer. As always, any suggestions are greatly appreciated. Thanks for your support, Erik Zenhausern Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 12:24:48 EST From: Estes <WOESSNER at VM.CC.PURDUE.EDU> Subject: rec.craft.brewing I tried to send this yesterday, but the automatic repley thought I wanted to become a member of the HBD. Do not use the word s u b s c r i b e when writing it may and you to the list again and not print your message. I have heard of a news group called rec.craft.brewing and would like to become a user. Anyone who knows how please send me the particulars. Thanks in advance, Estes of Manang Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 12:43:31 EST From: "David E. Dickson" <dd at olympus.ctron.com> Subject: Stainless Steel Pots 8-10 gallon Hi, I am in search of an 8 - 10 gallon Stainless Steel Brewing Kettle/Stock Pot at a reasonable price. I am currently using the old cost effective ceramic lobster pot type. It seems theres quite a price jump from the 5 gallon size available at Ames for $24.95 or so to the 10 gallon resturant model for $150.00. The 5 gallon size is a little tight to get 5 gallons of water, all boil ingredients, and a wort chiller into. If any one reading this knows of a source for 8 to 10 gallon stainless vessels at a fair price please email me at: dd at ctron.com (David Dickson) Thanks -dd- Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 11:49 CST From: korz at iepubj.att.com Subject: Re: Roasted Crystal/US-UK Sugars/Diacetyl/Why rack so early? Marc writes: >For stouts I'd suggest roasting unmalted barley, though malt will probably >also do (I use roasted crystal malt in a favourite 'dubbel' variation). Also, Kari writes: > There are many recipes in cats meow where toasted malt is used, > sometimes with crystal malt, sometimes without. I wonder what > happens if instead of crystal malt I only used toasted? What > would be the effect in taste? And how long pale malts should > be toasted (in 350F) to get close to 60L crystal? All comments I'd just like to note that crystal malts and pale/lager malts are VERY different. Roasting crystal is much different from roasting a pale or lager malt. Crystal malts are sort-of "mashed in the husk" and thus are virtually all sugar (albeit some being quite complex dextrins). Pale and lager malts are still mostly starch. Therefore, if you roast crystal, you are caramelizing sugar, whereas if you roast pale or lager malts (or especially unmalted barley) you are mostly toasting starch. Caramelized sugar tastes like, well... caramel, whereas toasted starch tastes like, well... toast (toasted bread). Two very different flavors! ********************* Martin writes: >US UK >== == >Corn Starch Corn Flour >Corn Sugar ? >Corn Syrup ? > >What exactly is Corn Syrup and Corn Sugar? It doesn't seem to be >generally available in the UK. Corn Sugar is basically glucose. In the US, it is sometimes called by it's trade name "dextrose." (Sounds like someone let their trade mark lapse.) Corn Syrup is just glucose syrup -- think of it as a highly-refined Lyle's Golden Syrup. ********************* I wrote: >3. Could fermentation have completed in the first 24 hours? One way to >make a beer with a lot of diacetyl is to rack it off the yeast as soon >as fermentation is over -- there will be less yeast to re-absorb the >diacetyl and more will be left in the beer. More accurately: One way to make a beer with a lot of diacetyl is to fine it and then (correction) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ rack it off the yeast as soon as fermentation is over -- there will be less yeast to re-absorb the diacetyl. (Fining is the addition of finings like gelatin, isinglass or Polyclar(tm) to precipitate out something -- usually either yeast, protein or tannins - -- in this case yeast. Note that most (I believe) finings work electrostatically, so you would need to use the right one for yeast -- I'm quite sure that gelatin and isinglass work.). ********************* Jack writes: > I am curious to know what would motivate one to rack at such an early stage. > One of the objectives of two stage fermentation is to leave as much stuff > behind after each stage and primary fermentation would just be well under way > in 24 hours. There has been much debate about this issue, but the theory is that fermenting on top of the hot and cold break (which consists of all kinds of proteins, hop resins, tannins, etc.) will cause the creation of more fusel (higher) alcohols. Another camp (one in which I'm firmly entrenched) is the one that says that these fusel alcohols and hop resins will exit the ferment through the kraeusen (the blowoff), which is why I use the blowoff method of fermentation. In numerous places, HBD being a popular one, many have written that "if you ferment on the break, you MUST use the blowoff method or skim the kraeusen." Well, as we all know, nothing is really a *must*, but I have noticed in test batches that I've made from a single wort, that (while fermenting on most of the break material) the non-blowoff sub-batches taste much harsher and more astringent than their blowoff counterparts. An underhopped batch actually tasted better in the non-blowoff sub-batch than in the blowoff sub-batch. If I had hopped correctly (for an IPA), the non-blowoff sub-batch would have been undrinkable. Personally, I chill with an immersion chiller and try to leave as much of the break in the kettle or funnel sieve -- I then ferment with the blowoff method. It may be good to wait till all the break has settled or to let the yeast munch on the break during *respiration* as I've written before, but I tend to not worry about it that much -- I don't always follow the best *theoretical* practices and I think my beer turns out quite well. Al. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 12:35:20 CST From: guy at mspe5.b11.ingr.com (Guy D. McConnell) Subject: Anchor Porter questions I'm rather glad to see the subject of Anchor Porter come up as I have been formulating a porter recipe that I would like to closely approximate it. I looked in Rich Cook's account of his Anchor brewery tour and noticed that he mentioned seeing bags of Northern Brewer and Hersbrucker hops. Are both of these used in the porter? Perhaps Northern Brewer for bittering (with maybe a bit of Hersbrucker as well) and Hersbrucker as a finishing hop? Rich also mentioned that he thought they dryhopped all of their beers. Is this true of the porter as well? Or am I totally off-base here and only Northern Brewer are used? Thanks for any input, public or private. - -- Guy McConnell guy at mspe5.b11.ingr.com or ...uunet!ingr!b11!mspe5!guy "All I need is a pint a day" Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 12:34:36 -0600 From: jmellby at iluvatar.dseg.ti.com Subject: Pub List Update For those of you who want a listing with more than just brewpubs on it, I have put up on the Homebrew archive at sierra.Stanford.EDU (courtesy of Stephen Hansen) the latest version of my listing of beer-related establishments. This file contains Brewpubs Pubs/Bars Restaurants Beer Stores (Liquor stores and Wine stores) Microbreweries (not complete) Breweries (fewer of these) Importers (still fewer of these) Misc (like the Scotch Whiskey Society) The file itself is in compressed format and is in pub/homebrew/incoming (although Stephen will probably move it to pub/homebrew) named pubs-nov92.Z I am still inputting more bars from the latest BarleyCorn, as well as trying to fix errors I detect in the latest Brewpub listings. For most of these the database contains names, addresses, city, state, zip code, area-code and phone number, the type of entry, and notes. Since some of these are from other people's listings or listing in the beer magazines (especially the California Celebrator) there is only the name, address, and type of establishment. The notes are either my own, notes from Usenet/News, or Homebrew digest, or things I extracted from reviews in magazines. The last few years I have tried to attribute the notes or information to the original poster. If I missed anyone's name I apologize now. I have been keeping this file for some 5 years now. Major sources of input have been various issues of the California Celebrator (I cannot recommend this paper enough) and the Cascade Beer News. I have also put in information from reviews in magazines like "All About Beer" and the "Whole Beer Review", both good magazines. This last year I have also got copies of "Rocky Mountain Brews" and "BarleyCorn" centered in the Rocky Mountain states, and Washington D.C. I haven't tried to input information wholesale from books listing pubs because I have an underlying feeling that I wouldn't want to cut into their market. The magazines/newspapers have so much other than pub listings to offer that I cannot see this impacting their business. My format is: COUNTRY State -- City: pub name - address; (areacode)phone Type-of-entry further notes Continued notes. The reason for this format is that I have a (unstable) program to extract listings in various ways. My most common usage is to ask for entries with 30 miles of a given city. This helps when you're in the SF Bay Area, which has lots of differently named cities in close proximity, and a traveller to the area doesn't know which California cities are really near SF. John R. Mellby (214)517-5370 <home> (214)575-6125 <work> Texas Instruments Has no responsibility for this! jmellby at iluvatar.dseg.ti.com jmellby at skvax1.ti.com Special Sources: California Celebrator Rocky Mountain Brews Cascade All About Beer World Beer Review gcw at garage.att.com; Geoffrey Woods bcstec!tahoma!dgs1300 at uunet.UU.NET; Don Scheidt, <Lots of corrections, some of my original Belgian notes were from an earlier message by Don. He added and corrected a lot of NW USA and some Belgian entries, and added a lot of German notes> John R. Mellby Texas Instruments jmellby at iluvatar.dseg.ti.com (214)517-5370 <h> (214)575-6125 <w> Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 12:42:44 CST From: guy at mspe5.b11.ingr.com (Guy D. McConnell) Subject: West Virginia brew? My brother will be relocating from Tallahassee to the Charleston, West Virginia area around the end of this month. Is there any brew news in the area? Brewpubs? Micros? Pubs with decent beer selections? Gotta know what's up there so I can properly prioritize a possible visit to him after he moves. - -- Guy McConnell guy at mspe5.b11.ingr.com or ...uunet!ingr!b11!mspe5!guy "All I need is a pint a day" Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 13:12:03 EST From: mm at workgroup.com (Mike Mahler) Subject: Pilsner Recipes? Along with my previous note, does anyone have a good recipe to enhance that John Bull Master Pilsner kit I have? Michael Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 15:10 EST From: STROUD <STROUD%GAIA at leia.polaroid.com> Subject: Cooking the wheat in witbiers Hi, I've been out of town for a few days. Several people have responded to my posting on Celis White beer and questioned whether or not the wheat is precooked (gelatinized) before mashing. I cannot say for sure. Our hosts did not mention it, but on the other hand, no one directly asked the question. My impression is that no precooking takes place; it is, however, only an impression. Steve Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 13:10:11 EST From: mm at workgroup.com (Mike Mahler) Subject: John Bull Master (Pislner) Kit A local homebrew place was getting rid of some old kits that were laying around and he sold me the afore mentioned kit for $8.99 which I thought was a decent deal. This kit's interesting as it comes with yeast under the cap as most kits do but in addition it had a packet of finings and another packet of Kent hops. Since I don't have the box it came in (they box the can for the "Master" kits and put the directions on the box.) Are thos finishing hops they gave me in the foil? Anyone know? Michael Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 15:44:13 EST From: Brian Michael Cors <corsbria at student.msu.edu> Subject: Difference?? What is the difference between hop tea and hop pellets?? Thanks. Bri Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 15:05:53 -0700 From: David Suda <suda at barley.Colorado.EDU> Subject: Hops? What's the HBD wisdom on hops??? Its time for me to buy hops for the next few months and I've been thinking about what varieties to get. I have access to whole cones from Hopunion: What's Brewing in Boulder has several varieties for $9.50/lb. Some of the varieties I've tried, some I haven't, so I thought I'd ask the HBD readers for their perceptions of the flavor and aroma of the possible choices. Here's a listing of some of the varieties with their usual alpha acid range, my comments, and the comments from Hopunion data sheets: Centennial: alpha: 9.5% - 11.5% my comments: nice cascade-like aroma, clean bitterness Hopunion: medium floral and citrus aroma Chinook: alpha: 12% - 14% my comments: the pellets I've tried resulted in beer with little hop aroma and a harsh bitterness Hopunion: a high alpha hop with a highly acceptable aroma profile; mild to medium-heavy, spicy aroma Galena: alpha: 12% -14% my comments: never tried it Hopunion: excellent high alpha hop with balanced bittering properties combined with an acceptable aroma profile; medium but pleasant hoppy aroma Hallertauer: alpha: 3.5% - 5.5% my comments: US grown Hallertauers have an ok flavor and aroma, but it doesn't produce "That German Taste" in lagers Hopunion: traditional superior aroma hop; very mild, pleasant, and slightly flowery aroma Liberty: alpha: 3% - 6% my comments: haven't tried them yet Hopunion: aroma variety with close similarities to imported German aroma varieties; still under evaluation but very positive comments from some major brewers; mild and pleasant aroma, quite fine Mt. Hood: alpha: 5% - 8% my comments: smooth bitterness, mild flowery aroma; very good in a pale ale Hopunion: aroma variety with marked similarities to the German Hallertauer and Hersbrucker varieties; mild, pleasant, and clean aroma Perle: alpha: 7% - 9.5% my comments: never tried it Hopunion: German type aroma properties combined with moderate bittering potential; pleasant and slightly spicy aroma Tettnanger: alpha: 4% - 5% my comments: smooth bitterness, mild spicy aroma; very good in a German pils Hopunion: a true noble aroma variety; very fine and slightly spicy aroma Willamette: alpha: 4.5% - 7% my comments: clean bitterness, not much flavor or aroma Hopunion: a quality aroma hop; mild and pleasant, slightly spicy aroma I'd appreciate comments from other brewers who have experience with any of these varieties, especially in the ones where my perceptions and Hopunion's comments don't agree (Chinook, Hallertauer, and Willamette) and the ones I haven't tried (Galena, Liberty, Perle). Dave Suda suda at barley.colorado.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 17:25:30 CST From: billm at scorpio.sps.mot.com (Bill Moyer) Subject: kegging v.s bottling, try2 Recently posted this to rec.crafts.brew, with a whopping 2 responders. Maybe this try will fare better... -- billm I'd like to open a discussion with those of you who use cornelius kegs for kegging homebrew. Our brewing outfit (Driftwood Brewers, Driftwood Texas) has been experimenting with split batches of homebrew in a variety of ale styles comparing kegged vs. bottled homebrew for taste differences. We've compared: 1) a nut brown ale 2) classic IPA 3) czech (read -heavy- saaz) style ale (dry hopped) 4) an english red bitter 5) a lighter american style ale (rice solids as adjunct) 6) an american style bock (but with ale yeast) These have been extract/specialty malt brews using primarily dried (EDME) yeast, and hop pellets, not whole hops, with a range of aromatic hopping rates. At least one batch utilized Wyeast liquid yeast. Our experience has been that the kegged beer has been very good to excellent until compared to the bottled versions of the same batch. No comparison, bottled wins unanimously with a crisper, cleaner, fuller taste. We have tried variations on kegging techniques to eliminate some differences. Forced CO2 priming and 3/4 cup corn sugar priming (with a 5lb sealing chanrge of CO2 after purging) produced no discernable differences. Half full vs. full to the top kegs were compared to eliminate the effect of a difference in gas space above the liquid, again no perceptible differences. Different CO2 pressure tanks were tried to eliminate the possibility of that as an effect. Different stainless steel cornelius kegs have no influence, all new seals installed in all (a debateable improvement in some minds). Perplexed at this point, we are wondering if any other homebrewers have benchmarked the flavor and overall characteristics of bottled vs. kegged homebrew from the same batch, and perhaps can share their opinions with us. I sure enjoy the labor savings of kegging, but at thisN 26 bar point am unwilling to continue given our experiences with the alternative of bottling. This experience is in direct opposition to my experience with micro-brewed ales. If any of you have the chance to compare Rouge Brewery's New Porter on tap in Ashland, Oregon with a fresh bottle of the same brew (both excellent porters IMHO), the kegged wins hands down, and not due to the age of the bottled version or its handling. I'm sure this is also true of many other micro-brewed beers. Shiner Bock in Shiner,Tx. is another example (although not quite "micro"). Bill Moyer Driftwood Brewers Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 13:21 From: sherpa2!BMOORE.ELDEC%mailsrv2 at sunup.West.Sun.COM (BMOORE) Subject: EDME YEAST Dan Wood notes in #1111 that EDME dried yeast is a fast fermenter. I have used EDME quite a bit in the past few years and have developed the following techniques to deal with it's "frisky" fermentative capabilities: 1) When using a carboy with a blow-off, do not fill beyond the point where the carboy begins to taper down to the neck. This as about 4.8 gal with a standard carboy. With a thick brew, fill a little less. The EDME will raise a Krausen to the top of the carboy and glue a bunch of brown gunk to the top surface, but actual blow off will be minimal. I have found my brews have better head retention if "Blowoff" is minimised. 2) EDME responds well to minimal hydration: About 10 minutes before pitching I throw 2 packs into a mason jar with 1/4 cup sterile water at about 100 deg F. As the wort starts coming out of the chiller (about 5 minutes later), I put another 1/4 cup in the jar, screw the lid on and shake vigorously. 5 minutes later, when the carboy is about 1/3 full (my chiller is slow), I pitch the slurry and shake the carboy like there's no tomorrow. I usually notice bubbles in the blowoff tube in about 2 hours and rack to secondary in 36 hours (the fermentation is still quite active at this point). Hope this helps... Cheers Barry Moore "Umsonst ist allen Kunst, ELDEC Corp Wenn ein Angel in den Zundloch prunst" Bothell, Washington (sherpa2!bmoore at sunup.west.sun.com) Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 16:48:57 PST From: Pat Lasswell <patl at microsoft.com> Subject: Real Ale from a Carboy(?) I have an idea, and I thought I would bounce it off y'all before I tried it: The apparatus: In the crude ASCII drawing below, there are two carboys, each with a BrewCap attached. The top one, inverted, contains the beer; the bottom one is the CO2 reservoir. The top carboy has the usual BrewCap installation, with a long pipe extending to the top of the carboy to allow gas to escape and also with the usual beer/crud output. (Disclaimer: I have never used a BrewCap, so my description of the "usual installation" is surmised from reading the HBD.) The gas output of the top carboy is connected to one of the openings in the bottom carboy's cap. The other opening in the bottom cap is connected to a copper pipe that runs first up and into and then down a 10' column of water to its bottom. Here's how it works: When the beer is in primary fermentation, the level of water in the column is low, about 6", allowing various undesirable yeast emissions to escape. After primary, all of the crud is drained from the bottom of the beer, and the column is filled up to the top with water. This would carbonate the beer to just below 5psi. Once accomplished, carbonated beer could be drawn from the top carboy. The bottom carboy would act as a C02 reservoir, so that the beer would not stale as the carboy emptied of beer and filled with gas. Clearly, water would be drawn from the column into the lower carboy. In order to maintain carbonation, the level of water in the column would have to be maintained as well. Since the bottom carboy originally contained 5 gallons of gas, the water should never enter the top carboy unless the system cools substantially. Potential problems/Uncertainties: - -- Will the CO2 draining from the top carboy mix with the gas in the bottom carboy, rather than sinking to the bottom and filling the carboy with CO2? What is the volume of CO2 released from 5 gallons of fermenting beer? (Assume OG 1.040, FG 1.012) [That is, if the gasses mix, is the volume of CO2 so much greater that it makes no difference whether they mix or not?] - -- Can a carboy hold 5psi without bursting? (If anybody has the equipment to test the bursting pressure of a carboy, I'll mail the cost of a carboy just to know the answer.) - -- Can the BrewCaps be kept on the carboy and sealed against 5psi? - -- If the top carboy spewed gunk into the bottom carboy, it would need to be sanitary, lest mold develop and spores enter the beer while one was drawing a pint. What would be the best way to accomplish this? An Idophor rinse left to dry? (Campden tablets and bleach would have their active ingredients flushed away by fermentation.) The carboy would have to stay sanitary, even when water was being drawn into it from the column. Bleach would be very bad here, as the chlorine would be sucked into the beer carboy; again iodine seems the proper choice. Are there any other persistent, non gaseous sterilizing agents? - -- Why not just get Cornelius or Firestone kegs and be done with it? [Back off man -- I'm a scientist! -- NOT; just curiosity....] It would be cheaper than a kegging set-up (probably < $50) and less work than bottling, though cleaning the system may be difficult -- I haven't worked it in to the design yet. - -- If this is not an original idea, has anybody tried it? ...not tried it for what reason? ...tried it and had problems? /--------\ | | <-- Copper Tubing | | | | | | | | | | | | ----- | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | <--- 5 Gallon Carboy | | | | \ | / | | | | \|/ | | | | B----\ B == BrewCap | | | | | | | | | \----- B | r | | | /"\ \--o <-- Beer output | | | / \ ' | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | <--- 5 Gallon Carboy | | | <--\ | | | | | | | - ----- | ----- | \-- Water Column ??? Pat Lasswell Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 17:20 CST From: arf at ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling) Subject: Efficiency vs Winners To: Homebrew Digest Fm: Jack Schmidling Now that we are all experts on extract efficiency, I thought it would be usefull to put our new found wisdom into proper perspective. The current issue of Zymurgy lists the winners of the 1992 national competition along with the winning recipes. There is enough data in the article to calculate the extract efficiency of each of the winners. Not only is it obvious that high extract efficiency does not make winning beer but a case might just be made for exactly the opposite position. I ran the published data on the all grain beers through my calculator and here is what I found. The lowest was 17 pts/lb/gal and the highest was 28. The arithmetic average was 23 and the actual numbers were: 17, 20, 21, 23, 23, 23, 25, 25, 26, 26 and 28. What is also interesting is that the highest (28) was about 60% wheat. So, the next time the gurus make derogatory remarks about your "poor" yield, just tell them you're working on a winner. js Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 14:42:18 EST From: mm at workgroup.com (Mike Mahler) Subject: What would you call this ale? Last night I stopped at the homebrew store to get some supplies along with the John Bull kit I mentioned before. I was going to do a recipe that so far has been my best, in my opinion, an Amber Oktoberfest. The recipe calls for: 6.6lbs Bierkeller Amber malt 4oz. toasted pale malt 3oz. roasted barley 2oz. crystal malt Hallertau Tetnanger Yeast from Bierkeller kit. Thing is, I was working from memory at the store and wound up with Norther Brewer pellets (1oz), Hallertauer Leaf plugs and no pale malt to toast. So I checked Papazzian's chart and saw that I had ingredients that were closest to an Alt so I used what I had: 6.6 lbs Amber (Irek's Bavarian instead of Bierkeller that was called for in the recipe) 1/2 lb cyrstal malt 1/3 lb chocolate malt 2 oz. Hallertau (2.9% alpha) 1 oz. Northern brewer (6.0% pellets) Whitebread Ale Yeast What would this beer be called? If it's any good, I'll let ya know... Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1012, 11/13/92