HOMEBREW Digest #1023 Tue 01 December 1992

Digest #1022 Digest #1024


	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Yeast Hydration, oak chip steaming & Hawaii(?) (thutt)
  Guiness from Wash DC? (Peter Bartscherer)
  Plastic Boilers (Jeff Berton)
  Hot Water Heaters... (SynCAccT)
  Re: Hops/Cannabis ("Spencer W. Thomas")
  oxidation ("Spencer W. Thomas")
  fermenters: glass vs plastic (Jeff Copeland)
  sorry (Alan Edwards)
  Caramelly taste with crystal malt and McMenamins (Martin Wilde)
  A novice brewers request... (uen3675)
  Diacetyl problem (Jim Grady)
  Aging, Head, etc (Jack Schmidling)
  St. Louis HB supplys (A261CCR)
  NYC brewpubs (Karl F. Bloss)
  Beer like beer too!!!!!! ("Bob Jones")
  what goes into malt extracts? (Peter Maxwell)
  Baderbrau stock? (James P. Buchman)
  Re: Getting Head/waiting for the break/extract efficiency (korz)
  "Stationary phase" (Mike Sharp)
  whirlpools to clear wort (Peter Maxwell)
  hop suggestions for anchor steam, please (Rob Bradley)
  Need someone to critique my beer? (Mike Mahler)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 30 Nov 92 08:04:01 EST From: thutt <thutt at mail.casi.nasa.gov> Subject: Yeast Hydration, oak chip steaming & Hawaii(?) During this past weekend, whilst making a batch of IPA, I accidentally overfilled my carboy. By overfilling, I mean that I did not have enough room to pitch the rehydrated yeast. Fortunately, I had not actually rehydrated the yeast at this time, so I simply (using proper sanitation) siphoned off a small amount of wort, and used that to rehydrate my yeast. So far (day 3), everything seems to be normal. My only conclusion is that this was not a bad thing. Question is: If this works (as it seems to), why would I _not_ want to do it? (After all, I have not seen this prescribed in writings or postings). Does anyone else perform this rehydration technique? What are your results? Also, during the creation of my IPA, I found the need to steam my wood chips. Since I was doing about 4 things at once, I really did not need another pot to watch on the stove, so I frantically searched for a simpler way to steam my wood chips. The answer which popped into my mind was quite simple, effective, and painless. I popped them into my rice cooker added some water, and turned the sucker on. It will steam the rice, er..., chips for about 30 minutes, and then it will turn itself off, keeping the heat applied until you are ready to use the wood chips. (I am seriously contemplatating putting some oak chips on top of my rice next time; wonder what type of flavor that will lend to the rice...) Turned out quite aromatic (and hopefully well sanitized). Anybody else have experiences of this sort? Finally, any brewers from Hawaii subscribed to this list? Taylor thutt at mail.casi.nasa.gov Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 92 08:48:14 EST From: Peter Bartscherer <BARTSCHP at DUVM.OCS.DREXEL.EDU> Subject: Guiness from Wash DC? Does anyone know the results of Guiness' test marketing of their nitrogen capsule cans? And, does anyone know where in the Washington DC area they can be bought? My brother lives there, and if I let him know where to get it, there's a good chance I could be drinking some "tap style" Guiness this coming holiday season. Thanks. - --------------------------------------------------------------------- Peter Bartscherer 215.895.1636 Design & Imaging Studio BARTSCHP at DUVM.OCS.DREXEL.EDU Drexel U / Philadelphia, PA - --------------------------------------------------------------------- Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 92 10:37:52 EST From: jeff344 at voodoo.lerc.nasa.gov (Jeff Berton) Subject: Plastic Boilers I would like to solicit opinions from those who boil their entire collection of wort. We all know the price of eight-gallon pots can be daunting, especially if they are of stainless steel. And for those of us who have small-burner, low-output electric ranges, and no propane "King Cooker," the prospect of doing a full boil can be intimidating. How about using one of those food-grade plastic fermenting buckets with an electric heating element? This would be similar to the "Bruheat" setup, but without the $80 price tag. I am concerned about the plastic's resistance to prolonged boiling temperatures. A quick experiment in which I filled my bucket with a couple of gallons of boiling water resulted in a slight softening of the plastic, but there were no alarming structural problems. To sum it up, Advantages: - Dirt cheap, full-boil rig. - Potential to mash, and with the addition of a double bucket, to sparge all in the same apparatus. Disadvantages: - Possible structural failure? - Wort carmelization due to the element's localized heat concentration. - High worry factor. :-) Comments? Suggestions? - -------- Jeff Berton; jeff344 at voodoo.lerc.nasa.gov; (216) 977-7031 -------- - --------- Aeropropulsion Analysis Office, NASA Lewis Research Center -------- - ------------- "If headquarters is interested, we're interested!" ------------ Return to table of contents
Date: 30 Nov 92 16:03:59 GMT From: SynCAccT at slims.attmail.com Subject: Hot Water Heaters... I would like to mount a 4500 watt, 240 volt low density hot water heater into a keg to boil wort. Does anyone have experiance or comments on this as working with 240 volts and liquid is something I want to do correctly the first time... Thanks +----------------------------------+ | Internet: gande at slims.attmail.com| | Glenn Anderson | | Manager, Telecom. Facilities | | Sun Life of Canada | +----------------------------------+ Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 92 11:15:21 EST From: "Spencer W. Thomas" <Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu> Subject: Re: Hops/Cannabis Several said "Hops are not psychoactive". But there is anecdotal evidence of a sleep-inducing effect, at least. So who's to say? =S Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 92 11:31:13 EST From: "Spencer W. Thomas" <Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu> Subject: oxidation An anecdote pointing out the need for care to not oxidize your wort: Last winter I made a beer close to Papazian's Doctor Bock. It got a 28 in the first round of the AHA National, even though it was quite young (one of the comments was that it was yeasty tasting) and not malty enough for the style. I entered it in the Michigan State Fair competition (in July), where it got a 35, and the comment that it tasted oxidized. I have to agree -- there is a definite "cardboard" taste to it now. (I have also had oxidized beers with a nice sherry-like flavor, but not this one.) What did I do to get this flavor? I think it happened because I just poured the hot wort into the cold water in the carboy. There was lots of splashing and foam. Fix claims that dark beers are at greater risk of oxidation because the melanoidins (certain dark-colored compounds) can become oxidized, and later act as oxidizing agents as the beer ages. I think this is what happened to my beer, because the cardboard flavor definitely took several months to develop. Since then, I've built a wort chiller, so it won't happen again (I hope). Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1992 10:00:00 -0700 From: copeland at homebrew.atmos.colostate.edu (Jeff Copeland) Subject: fermenters: glass vs plastic About Jim's (jfunk) question on glass vs plastic fermenters Personally I like to use a plastic primary and a glass secondary. The plastic primary means no blowoff tube. The plastic fermenter should be food grade, and to avoid scratching I just hose it out after use and soak it with bleach prior to its next use. I never have needed to scrub. Jeff Copeland -- Atmospheric Science -- Colorado State University Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 92 09:04:33 PST From: rush at xanadu.llnl.gov (Alan Edwards) Subject: sorry | Alan writes about candi sugar while taking a stab at Jack. | | While I'm not about to say Jack's a nice guy, I must admit that | he has been behaving himself lately and we should not bait him. Sorry. You're right. | "Can't we all try to get along?" to quote Rodney King. -Alan Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 92 09:13 PST From: martin at gamma.intel.com (Martin Wilde) Subject: Caramelly taste with crystal malt and McMenamins I would like to get a big caramelly taste from the usage of Crystal (Caramel) malt. I have heard using large quantities of Crystal 20L will give you a caramelly taste and a dark color is this true?. Normally I would use about 5% of crystal 80L to get the desired color, but the amount of caramelly taste is not as high as what I am looking for and would probably be too sweet in large amounts. I ran the numbers through the Lovibond formulas and about a 20% mix of Crystal 20L will give me the color I desire. My only worry is will I get the desired caramelly taste? I suspect I will need to mash at a lower mash temperature (148 degrees) to avoid getting too sweet of a beer with all that crystal present. On a different subject, the McMenamin brothers have created a fine institute for craft beers here in Oregon. Since Oregon allows minors in most pubs up until 8pm or so, the McMenamin folks have gone out of their way to make their pubs a wholesome family place (they now even have a childrens menu, including peanut butter and jelly sandwiches!!!). As far as them not selling anything other than their own beers, I don't believe they would do that, since they have a hard time keeping up with production of their own beers. The only complaint I would have against them, is that their beers seem to be getting thinner. Maybe they are just trying to satisfy the majority of people. Martin Wilde | So many beers... martin at gamma.hf.intel.com | So little time... uunet!intelhf!gamma!martin | Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 92 17:21:26 GMT From: uen3675 at aberdeen.ac.uk Subject: A novice brewers request... Hi folks, I am a very very novice brewmaster-in-training (ie. I am about to start my FIRST homebrew) only I have a few problems... 1\I don't know how to make beer 2\ I have very limited space (I live in a University Hall of Res) 3\ I am poor... My request is this... Could you folk be so kind as to send me your favorite recipes. (The are many here willing to try them out :-) And a list of the "how-to's" and "where-fors" etc... I will send results of the best recipe... PS. I like a dark, heavy traditional style Ale.... thanx - alfie uen3675 at sysb.aberdeen.ac.uk Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 92 13:00:56 EST From: Jim Grady <jimg at hpwalq.wal.hp.com> Subject: Diacetyl problem I have a problem with diacetyl in a recent batch I made. Here are the specifics: * recipe was the extract based Kolsch recipe in Dave Miller's "Brewing the World's Great Beers." * yeast was Wyeast European Ale (I can never remember the numbers) * the F.G. was higher than expected (1.017) but seemed about right given the minimum attenuation specified in the yeast profiles from Wyeast. * bottled on 30 Oct.; stored at about 60 deg. F * 1 week later, carbonation was fine and tasted fine to the best of my recollection (a little sweet though) * started cold conditioning at 40 deg F on ~8 Nov. * tasted on ~22 Nov and there was a pronounced butter flavor. My question, naturally, is what do I do? I have read about diacetyl rests at ~70 deg F but they all seem to be at the end of the secondary, not in the bottle after a couple of weeks of cold-conditioning. Thanks in advance for any suggestions. - -- Jim Grady |"Talent imitates, genius steals." Internet: jimg at wal.hp.com | Phone: (617) 290-3409 | T. S. Eliot Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 92 09:40 CST From: arf at ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling) Subject: Aging, Head, etc To: Homebrew Digest Fm: Jack Schmidling Date: Wed, 25 Nov 92 8:27:30 CST >From: guy at mspe5.b11.ingr.com (Guy D. McConnell) >Subject: Telluride Beer >What's the scoop on this stuff? I picked up a six-pack of it one night in Bruno's on a lark, all the while assuming that it was brewed in Telluride Colorado. I was surprised to read on one of the bottles that it is brewed somewhere in the midwest..... Telluride is a compound of the element tellurium which is frequently associated with gold and as such is considered a gold ore. Perhaps they were just being modest when naming it as something less than gold. >From: dipalma at banshee.sw.stratus.com (James Dipalma) >In HBD 1014, Glenn Anderson wrote and asked about the difference between Klages and Harrington malt.... I guess the reason no one answered is because it is another one of those well guarded industry secrets. All I know about it as that after about ten orders of Klages from Minnesota Mining, I was told that it was no longer available and has been replaced by Harrington. The only answer I could get as to why was that the brewers like it better. My experience with it (for what that is worth) is that I can not tell the difference. It looks the same, tastes the same, performs the same and the beer tastes the same. After using Belgian malts for a few batches now, it is probably safe to say that comparing Klages with Harrington is sort of like comparing Miller with Bud. js Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 92 13:34:35 CST From: A261CCR <A261CCR at SEMOVM.SEMO.EDU> Subject: St. Louis HB supplys Being new to homebrew (Still waiting to brew my first batch) could anyone give me the name of homebrew equipment and supply dealers in the St. Louis or southern MO/IL area? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance. - --------- Mark Tenholder a261ccr at semovm.semo.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 92 14:50:25 -0500 From: blosskf at ttown.apci.com (Karl F. Bloss) Subject: NYC brewpubs I'm looking for NYC, particularly Manhattan brewpubs. Any feeback via e-mail is appreciated. We're thinking mostly in the area of Central park, but will travel (subway). Thanks in advance! -Karl (blosskf at ttown.apci.com) Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 92 11:58:05 PST From: "Bob Jones" <bjones at novax.llnl.gov> Subject: Beer like beer too!!!!!! I have noticed that bees seem to find their way into my garage when I brew. I especially notice them after the wort is boiling. Anyone else notice this? Maybe they are drawn to the hops smells or the malt smells. Bob Jones Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1992 12:03:58 -0800 (PST) From: Peter Maxwell <peterm at hpdtlpm.ctgsc.hp.com> Subject: what goes into malt extracts? I posted a note to rec.crafts.brewing but have gotten no responses so I thought I'd put it in HBD. I'm interested to know what sorts of things go into malt extracts. I've read both Papazian and Miller but neither say much except to mention that they can be obtained in light, amber and dark. What I really want to know is what is done to make these color differences? Does amber extract contain anything like crystal malt or chocolate malt, for example. Is it simply the kiln temperature? If anyone has some information on this subject I'd love to hear it. Or point me to a reference. Thanks in advance. Peter Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 92 16:56:09 EST From: James P. Buchman <buchman at marva2.ENET.dec.com> Subject: Baderbrau stock? Hi, Someone in the digest once told me that the company which makes Baderbrau was traded publicly with NASDAQ symbol BRAU. Well, I just called my broker, who says he can't find it among either the NASDAQ listings or the pink sheets (for companies too small even for NASDAQ). Do any Chicago-area readers have the scoop on this? ALso, what is the latest stock price, if you can find it? Thanks, Jim B. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 92 16:21 CST From: korz at iepubj.att.com Subject: Re: Getting Head/waiting for the break/extract efficiency Jack writes: > >From: korz at iepubj.att.com > >Jack writes: > > <>Although my bottled beer had adaquate carbonation, it never had much head > and..... > > >I don't understand where the problem was. Generally speaking, if your beer > has adequate carbonation and adequate amounts of proteins and dextrins, > it should have an adequate head..... but I still don't understand where the > change was made that would increase head retention. > > The problem here is that I never said anything about head RETENTION. I said > head, period.... When I pour[ed] the beer from the bottle, no head formed. > Now, when I pour the counter-pressure filled bottle, I have to pour down the > side of the glass to control the head. > > It's the same beer but they behave very differently. When I tap a glass, I > can build up a three inch whipped cream topping and there is at least 1/4 > inch left in the bottom after nursing the beer down. I got hung up on this > silly procedure at a demonstration at Baderbrau and it really makes an > inviting glass of beer. BTW, I have never been able to do it with bottled > Baderbrau, just from his private tap. > > I am not sure what happens when bottled directly out of the tap but perhaps I > was just content with less carbonation than most people are used to. As an > aside, if I shook the bottle a bit before pouring, it would form a head but > that is a bit much. I think I know what the missing factor is regarding getting a head when pouring from a tap (er, faucet actually -- the tap is the gizmo that attaches to the keg): pressure drop. If you only partially open a faucet, you are restricting the flow and thus causing the beer to flow through a smaller opening. The resulting flow is higher in velocity. This is called the venturi effect. When the flow finally crosses the constriction, the flow slows and the pressure drops and much of the dissolved CO2 comes out of solution. This is "slow pour" that Baderbrau retailers are taught to offer their customers. The resulting beer is less carbonated than it would have been with a "fast pour" where the faucet is opened full-throttle. My theory, then, of why your "bottled-from-the-keg-without-a-counter- ressure-bottle-filler" beers did not have a head, would have to be that it was because of the loss of dissolved CO2 when you filled the bottles. For those who are unfamiliar, counter-pressure bottle fillers work by keeping the beer under pressure during the whole transfer process, thereby eliminating (actually minimizing) the loss of CO2 (i.e. carbonation). Walt writes: >In yesterdays digest (1017?, as well as sereveral previous digests) I read with >interest a post by Al Korzonas (korz at iepubj.att.com): > >Al, > I read your post today and was very interested that you've determined that a >single stage ferment is all that is required. After several years of automatic >racking to secondary I started experimenting myself. I've never had the >patience to make "exactly" the same beer twice changing just one thing, but >some of the best beers I've made in the last year used my normal process with >only a single stage. Clarity, astringency and any other fermentation >characteristics were indistingishable from 2-stage. > > I also read with interest (correct me if I'm wrong) that your practice is to >pour the wort through a strainer into the carboy after chilling. I usually put >the lid on and let the trub settle for 30-60 minutes and then siphon, leaving >as much trub as possible. However, given the "yumminess" of your brews I'm >re-evaluating the need for this step. It's not too hard but if its not needed >why bother. I'm I wrong about your methods? What to you think about the >30 minute settling time? Is it worth the risk? I think I responded to Walt directly, but it may be of general interest, so I'll post. I used to cool to 70F, wait an hour and then pour through a strainer into the fermenter, leaving the last quart or so of wort (the part with most of the hot- and cold-break in it (trub)) in the kettle (sometimes more sometimes less -- different extracts, by the way, produce different amounts of trub). I've since (very recently) decided that the 1 hour rest after cooling does little, since only very little of the total cold break settles in the first hour (it seems to take much longer). Partly because I've read that blowoff (which I use) elimininates much of the undesirable compounds created by fermenting on the trub (higher alcohols) and partly because I refuse to worry (I take Charlie quite seriously on this point), I simply chill to 70F, measure OG and run it through a sieve/funnel into the carboy. ************************ Cush writes: >When I checked the grains afterwards, it looked like many of them had been >cracked in half, but the starchy material was still in the husks. The grind >looked alright, i.e. few whole grains, but in some the starch had not >been released. > >Causes I can think of are: >1) strike temp was not high enough to gelatinize the starch No, but see 0) below. >2) the crush was actually too coarse (I WANT a roller-mill!!!! Santa???) Likely, given your description. >3) I should indeed have done a step-mash and raise the temp to 158 for 15 min. > at the end of the mash. This would not have solved the problem in 2. >4) I sparges too fast. Probably not the problem. >5) the mash was too tight. Miller recommends 1.33 quarts per pound. > This was indeed the tightest mash I have yet done (Micah??? you say > you usually use a rather tight mash.....) "Stiff" is also commonly used to describe a thick mash. Yes, the stiff mash may have been partly to blame. >6) As I said, this same sparging system has turned out 29-30 points, so I > am pretty confident that I am not suffering from dead spots in the > lauter-tun. > You forgot 0) Did not dough-in properly, leaving balled starch. You should add the liquor (water) to the the grain and work it through -- Noonan makes a BIG deal about this. It would explain the unconverted starch in the spent grains. >my frustration. Geez....I almost felt like giving up if my best effort >would turn out my worst results. Oh well...1.040 is low, but alright, and >I pitched a nice healthy starter, so that after eight hours it looks like >the yeast is just coming out of respiration stage. Maybe in a few weeks I >will be able to drink away my frustrations!!! I'll re-use a phrase I used on a complaining co-worker today -- it has a double-meaning in our world: "...could be worse... you could be homeless." Let's not be too proud with our allgrain batches here folks: if the gravity is lower than you would like, add some malt extract. Since we're on the subject of extract efficiency, I'd like to make one more point regarding the importance of knowing your extract efficiency. This was brought up elsewhere, so I can't take credit for remembering it, nor can I remember who should be getting the credit (sorry): Probably the most important reason for knowing your extract efficiency, it is so you can compensate when you are trying to duplicate someone else's recipe. If you see that they are claiming 30 points per pound per gallon (judging from their grain bill and OG) and you know you only get 25, you add 20% more of each grain (30/25 = 1.2 ==> 120% ==> 20% more needed). Al. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 92 18:44:00 EST From: Mike Sharp <msharp at cs.ulowell.edu> Subject: "Stationary phase" In the last HBD I wrote: > You _DO_ want to pitch the yeast when its in > the stationary phase. This generated a lot of e-mail questions, so: What I refered to here as the 'stationary phase' is really the very beginning of the dormant phase. In other words, let you starter ferment out _then_ pitch it. Don't let it sit too long or you'll have other problems. As far as the argument that vigorously multiplying yeast will start your wort faster, the yeast have a limited supply of glycogen and it gets depleated through culture growth (multiplication). If you then pitch this starter with an already depleated glycogen level into your wort then you'll have more of a lag since the cells won't be able to multiply as quickly (due to the low glycogen levels) [think of glycogen as the fuel that drives the cell] By letting the cells reach stationary phase they have stoped multiplying, begun storing up glycogen again, and just generally getting ready to go dormant. At least thats the Reader's Digest version of what I go out of: > Impact of Yeast Handling Procedures on Beer Flavor During Fermentation > Pickerell et. all. > American Society of Brewing Chemists (ASBC) Journal, Vol 49:2, 1991, pp.87-92 For those of you who asked about the ASBC address, I don't have it here. I'll post it later. Personally I've found more usefull information for what I do [I'm keeping a _BIG_ yeast bank] in the J of Inst. Brew. Your mileage may vary. I'll post@ address if I can find it. Be warned that these journals are not cheap! --Mike Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1992 16:34:06 -0800 (PST) From: Peter Maxwell <peterm at hpdtlpm.ctgsc.hp.com> Subject: whirlpools to clear wort A lot has been said about how certain places/people whirlpool the wort before chilling. My simple-minded question is that if formation of DMS is deemed to be problem, what's wrong with chilling first and THEN whirlpooling prior to racking into a fermenter. That would seem to avoid both DMS and oxidation problems. There must be some reason for whirlpooling before chilling but I'd like to know what it is. Peter Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 92 20:26:46 -0500 From: bradley at adx.adelphi.edu (Rob Bradley) Subject: hop suggestions for anchor steam, please I'm planning an Anchor Steam clone. I welcome any hopping suggestions that have been tested, including unconventional ones. Has anyone else had the same problems Murray Robinson experienced with WYeast 2112? Maybe I'll have to change my weekend brewing plans :-( Thanks to those who replied re: SN and fruitiness. I have been asked to post my recipes and will do so shortly, after consulting my notes. Cheers, Rob (bradley at adx.adelphi.edu) Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 92 14:00:09 EST From: mm at workgroup.com (Mike Mahler) Subject: Need someone to critique my beer? I've reached a point in my partial mash brewing where my beers are, in my opinion, pretty good. I'd like to hopefully get someone to taste my beer to let me know what they think I could do to improve it if I also send along my brewing process. Would anyone tasters be willing to receive a bottle or two from me? Michael Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1023, 12/01/92

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