HOMEBREW Digest #1055 Thu 14 January 1993

Digest #1054 Digest #1056

		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator

  5 gallon plastic mashing bins w/electric heating element (relic)
  re: boiling,skimming and hopping (Jim Busch)
  Cold Plates (David Van Iderstine)
  Sparging with initial drain off. (Dominic Ryan)
  Re: CABA info (Robert Schultz)
  AHA judging sheets (Chris Thompson)
  Beginners questions (I've Faulted... and I can't spin up!)
  Misc. Stuff (John DeCarlo)
  Mead (Paul Ray)
  lab grade again (Jon Binkley)
  Re: Diminishing yields (Jeff Benjamin)
  Rickard's ("Mark Rich-mpr8a at acadvm1.uottawa.ca")
  Bier Haus Hopped Extract (Scott Bickham)
  ZYMURGY IMPROVEMENTS (Charlie Papazian/Boulder)
  mead (Alexander Samuel McDiarmid)
  Can I use this keg? (Mark Lundquist)
  Floating Coins ("Chauncey T. Griggs")
  Sparge-O-Matic (CCASTELL)
  cleaning carboys (BadAssAstronomer)
  desperately seeking help (Peter Maxwell)
  HDPE--Kill it dead? (Bruce Mueller)
  Physics, surface tension, and bubbles ;-) (Greg Jesus Wolodkin)
  Cold Plates (Jack Schmidling)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 13 Jan 1993 09:22:41 -0400 (EDT) From: relic <JMULLER at SSCvax.CIS.McMaster.CA> Subject: 5 gallon plastic mashing bins w/electric heating element i am currently looking at going to full boils and/or full mashes, and was wondering how useful it would be to have this particular sort of heating unit (i.e. a five gallon plastic brewing bin, with a heating element, basic pot for power (not thermal) control, and a spigot. given that it is not likely i am going to be able to set up a gas unit/copper kettle for some time 8-), is this an adequate substitute, or should i forego such a piece of hardware and wait for my gas system to materialize? so, i am asking for anybody's advice and/or experiences with such machines. your consideration would be greatly appreciated...with my thanks, and possiblyl a threat to compile this information (if it isn't already on a FAQ or other file). Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 93 10:06:21 EST From: Jim Busch <busch at daacdev1.stx.com> Subject: re: boiling,skimming and hopping In the last digest Jack asked for some clarifications of my comments: from: Jim Busch <busch at daacdev1.stx.com> <From: arf at ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling) <Add half of your hops as soon as boiling begins. Save one <forth for the end and the remainder at regular intervals <during the boil. >This is not recommended for infusion mashing. <I accept the recommendation but what does it have to do with the method of <mashing? A decoction mash will break down the larger proteins and gums into easier to handle products. These substances will be less detrimental to the brewing process, and will be less capable of coating the hops. >The wort should be boiled a minimum of 30 minutes prior to the first hopping. This is due to the need to break down and make floc large proteins that carry over into the kettle. <Don't understand this as it is already in the kettle if one is boiling. You are doing the right thing to begin boiling the wort as soon as possible. In my process, the sweet wort will begin to boil just as I am ready to add more runoff. This will of course, cool the wort to below boiling. This procedure repeats until the kettle is full. Each time the wort comes to a boil, more of the proteins will floc and coalesce. You can skim these off with a standard strainer. Once the kettle is full and brought to a boil, it is still a good idea to boil 30 minutes prior to the first hopping. You can reduce this time if you have been boiling and straining during the kettle filling process. If you employ a decoction mash, all of this is less important. The breakdown of the large moleculer weight proteins that occur during a decoction mash is also why this technique is important for trouble free lautering of wheat beers. Jim Busch Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 93 09:42:15 EST From: orgasm!davevi at uunet.UU.NET (David Van Iderstine) Subject: Cold Plates I've had some experience with these things, which was not good. I made the mistake of adding ice over the cold plate before I had beer running through it. It seems that ice crystals formed *inside* the plate's tubes, with the result being incredibly foamy beer at the tap that did not go away for days (it was a looong party! :-). The advise I was given (I'm afraid much too late!) was to get the beer running first, then chill the plate down. Dave VI =========================================================================== == Dave Van Iderstine Senior Software Engineer == == Xerox Imaging Systems, Inc. == == UUCP: uunet!pharlap!orgasm!davevi davevi at pharlap.com :INTERNET == ==-----------------------------------------------------------------------== == "I haven't got time for instant gratification!" == =========================================================================== Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 93 10:40:50 -0500 From: ryan%phmms0.mms.smithkline.com at smithkline.com (Dominic Ryan) Subject: Sparging with initial drain off. I would like to again compare sparging with chromatography where there is a tradeoff between speed and efficiency. If one uses a very tightly packed support for the column (i.e. the grain bed) then one will use less 'sparge water' and get better efficiency. However the tradeoff is that it can take a *lot* longer unless forced under pressure. Another factor that lowers efficiency and ends up requiring significantly more liquid is letting the bed drain, even partially. The problem is that air channels develop in the bed and these can take a lot of 'sparging' to close up. This will sometimes more than double the amount of liquid required to get all the desired materiel out of the bed. I would therefore not expect draining the wort off of the bed initially to be a good thing. Getting as tight a bed as you can afford to spend time sparging will get you the best sparging efficiency with the least amount of sparge water used and therefore the minimum in husk astringency. As others have pointed out keeping the grain bed hot is essential, this will really improve flow through the bed and solubility of the sugars in the water. Getting the grain bed heated up properly should be happening with mashout at 75-80oC and then dumping it all into the sparge bucket. I find that I must keep the initial runoff at least that hot if it is to be recirculated, after all that is the sparge 'water' initially. I also do not sprinkle water on top of the bed. I pour the water onto the inside of a big spoon as I move the spoon around the top of the bed. I do this with almost no liquid on top of the bed until there is really no extractable sugar left at the top of the bed. After that I fill up the top of the sparge bucket to the lip with water only a little hotter than ideal, say 80oC. Others have pointed out correctly that sprinkled water will cool significantly. Rather than heating to boiling and guessing at the temperature of the resulting sprinkle just pour carefully and you will have no trouble. Finally, I keep the bottom of the sparge bucket in a hot water bath. That seems to have the greatest effect on sparge speed, presumably because the bottom would otherwise be cooling fastest. There can be too much of a good thing with a tight grain bed, my recent 5 hr sparge was just a little too tight for liking by about 2:30AM...:-) That one was my own fault though. M. Dominic Ryan SmithKline Beecham Pharmaceuticals (215)-270-6529 internet: ryan%phmms0.mms at smithkline.com Return to table of contents
Date: 13 Jan 1993 09:42:50 -0600 (CST) From: Robert Schultz <SCHULTZ at admin1.usask.ca> Subject: Re: CABA info Bruce Givens (Attention Canadian Brewers): The following is an address I received through the HBD of the CABA Hope it helps. Robert Schultz ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "I'm going off half-cocked? I'm going off half-cocked? ... Well, Mother was right - You can't argue with a shotgun." - Gary Larson ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From: IN%"71601.3357 at CompuServe.COM" "Paul Dickey" CABA is a Federally Incorporated, non-profit organization whose purpose is to promote homebrewing as an enjoyable hobby through educational publications, events and other activities. Our Newsletter comes out every two months, we have up to three contests per year, a conference and seminars - unfortunately not west of Ontario to date. This March we are having an event in Montreal and hope to reach out to other regions as time goes on. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 93 11:21:20 -0500 From: Chris Thompson <christ at sci.ccny.cuny.edu> Subject: AHA judging sheets Can someone please post/email/tell me where I can find a copy of the sheets AHA uses in beer competitions? Thanks, Chris Thompson Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 93 09:43:44 PST From: I've Faulted... and I can't spin up! <fecich at csoa1.enet.dec.com> Subject: Beginners questions Could someone explain to me how to decode "beginner.Z" and other Z files in the homebrew repository? Thanks, Larry Fecich DEC CS Return to table of contents
Date: Wednesday, 13 Jan 1993 13:20:24 EST From: m14051 at mwvm.mitre.org (John DeCarlo) Subject: Misc. Stuff 1. Temperature of water as it goes into the grain. Basically speaking, the temperature of the water on the stove doesn't make a bit of difference--it is the temperature it is when it goes into the grain. So if you carefully pour or siphon water in, it won't change temperature too much. If you splash it through the air, into a bowl, where it then splashes through the air *again*, before hitting the grain, it wouldn't surprise me too much to find that the temperature of the water entering the grain has gone from 212F on the stove to 180F or less. The point being that different methods *can* produce different apparent results. 2. Someone recommended I start skimming as soon as appreciably thick foam started forming on the boiling wort, *then* add the hops. I have switched to this method and it seems to result in better hop utilization and much reduced opportunity for boil over (I no longer have to *stop* a boil-over in progress). Caveat-I haven't measured anything here, especially not hop utilization. Internet: jdecarlo at mitre.org (or John.DeCarlo at f131.n109.z1.fidonet.org) Fidonet: 1:109/131 Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1993 10:39:02 -0800 From: Paul Ray <paulr at delilah.ccsf.caltech.edu> Subject: Mead Hi, I am about to brew my first batch of mead in a couple weeks. Does anyone have any hints that might help? I have a couple of specific questions as well. I don't have any "acid blend" which is called for (but optional) in my recipe (which I am getting from the New Joy of Homebrewing). Do I need it and does anyone know how to get it? Also, what is a good source for 15 pounds of honey? I don't want to squeeze 300 little plastic bears into my pot :-> What honeys have people used and does the type of honey make much difference? Thanks for any help. I hope my first batch of mead turns out as well as my first batch of beer (which I love). - -- Paul Paul S. Ray Internet: paulr at caltech.edu 206-49 Caltech Internet: paulr at delilah.ccsf.caltech.edu Pasadena, CA 91125 Bitnet : paulr at caltech.bitnet (818) 356-2911 Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 93 11:46:58 -0700 From: Jon Binkley <binkley at beagle.Colorado.EDU> Subject: lab grade again Ulick Spaford apparently knows exactly how much heavy metals you can consume safely (knows more about it than the Evil Government Agents who are out to subvert and control our lives, anyway). This is fine for him, and for anyone else willing to put in the years of research necessary to find out such information. For myself, I'm still going to stick to the food grade stuff, and stick to my recommendation that homebrewers not motivated enough to be as much an expert on the subject as Ulick obviously is to also avoid reagent and lesser grade chemicals as food additives. Ciao, Jon Binkley Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 93 13:03:05 MST From: Jeff Benjamin <benji at hpfcbug.fc.hp.com> Subject: Re: Diminishing yields In HBD #1052, Mike Travis was disappointed that his extract rates were steadily dropping for his first three all-grain batches. He himself brought up the issue of sparge temp, so all the discussion has been about that. However, I usually make batches using anywhere from 8-10 lbs of grain, and I don't see any difference in extract rate even though I sparge with the same temp water. I don't think that 2 lbs of grain will create enough difference in the sparge efficiency (all other variables being the same) to cause a 7 pts/lb/gal decrease. I think James Dipalma got closer when he addressed Mike's extract rate problem and someone else's question about storing pre-crushed grain in the same post (HBD #1053). He mentioned the anecdote that some brewer would increase the grain bill 10% if the crushed malt had to sit even overnight. That 10% seems a little extreme. However, if Mike bought a large quantity of pre-crushed malt and used it to make his three batches several weeks apart, it might degrade enough to account for the loss in extract. Also, make sure your later grain bills didn't include disproportionately high percentages of specialty malts like Munich or crystal. If you don't have enough pale malt, you won't get enough enzymatic activity to get a full conversion. (Try the iodine test next time if you're not sure -- a drop of iodine in a bit of mash liquid will turn purple/black if there are still unconverted starches.) Just a couple more thoughts on the problem. - -- Jeff Benjamin benji at hpfcla.fc.hp.com Hewlett Packard Co. Fort Collins, Colorado "Midnight shakes the memory as a madman shakes a dead geranium." - T.S. Eliot Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 93 16:08:18 EST From: "Mark Rich-mpr8a at acadvm1.uottawa.ca" <MPR8A at acadvm1.uottawa.ca> Subject: Rickard's Here in Ottawa there is a fine brew to be had called "Rickard's Red". It is by far my favorite quaff. Does anybody out there know where it comes from? Who makes it? and the big question... How to make it? I have only seen it in certain bars on tap. It does not seem to be available in bottles. Thanx For those of you who do not know this brand... it's a Deep-Amber/red colour with a rich creamy head that's slightly beige. Smells a bit sweet/flowery; and tastes sort of sweet with a slight bitterness in the after-taste. I highly reccomend you try it. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 93 18:35:27 EST From: bickham at msc2.msc.cornell.edu (Scott Bickham) Subject: Bier Haus Hopped Extract Recently, I was given a 4.75 lb. can of Bierhaus Continental Amber Hopped Extract. Note that this is not the Bierkeller brand. The ingredients are listed as: "wort (malt, barley, corn syrup, hops)", and it was imported from England for Bierhaus of Erie, PA. I don't like the idea of using an unknown quantity of corn syrup, so I'm planning to use the can along with a mash to brew something roughly in the Old Ale style. My question is: does anyone on the net have any idea what the hopping rate is? I'm guessing something in the range of 20 IBU's - does this sound reasonable? Thanks, Scott - -- ========================================================================= "Bosnia has been cleansed," said Tom acerbically. - Geoff Miller Scott Bickham | LASSP and Materials Science Center | bickham at msc.cornell.edu Cornell University, Ithaca, NY 14853 | bickham at crnlmsc2.bitnet ========================================================================= Return to table of contents
Date: 13 Jan 93 19:08:44 EST From: Charlie Papazian/Boulder <72210.2754 at compuserve.com> Subject: ZYMURGY IMPROVEMENTS Howdy 'all, I thought I'd drop in to express some encouragement to some of you who have seemed pretty dissatisfied with zymurgy as of late. I haven't caught the whole thread, in fact I only came across one comment from A. Dietz from Morristown, NJ, but I'm assuming (maybe I'm assuming a bit too much, if so let me know) that there was considerable discussion about disatisfaction regarding the contents of the magazine. I was thinking about this and we have really benefitted in the past from people like yourselves when you have directed your disatisfaction to us directly, so we can consider doing something about it. But perhaps much more importantly, we know there are a lot of people like A Dietz who know far more than the average homebrewer and could really offer the membership some good information by perhaps contributing some technical articles themselves. A. Dietz and others are just the kind of guys (or gals) we're looking for as your knowledge goes way beyond the content of what zymurgy is able to presently offer. Why not help us help you and others like you and give us some outlines and ideas on some technical subjects that, perhaps, we have not covered in the past 2 or 3 years. We'd really appreciate that. As a matter of fact all of the growth and improvements that we've been able to offer over the years have come from people more knowledgeable than the average homebrewer. I understand that there has been some concern that we have rejected several good technical articles. If you folks could be more specific that would help us solve this problem, if indeed it is a problem. Elizabeth Gold (Editor) and I review all the manuscripts and ideas that are submitted. Neither of us are recalling any incidences where we rejected quality, accurate technical articles. But if we have done so inadvertantly or otherwise, please drop us a note and we will look into things. Thanks for listening and keep up the [constructive] griping. Fermently, Charlie P. p.s. I can be reached at my CIS address, though after january 20 you should direct any messages to James Spence at the AHA at 70740,1107, as I will be on vacation for a couple of weeks and won't be checking my e-mail. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1993 18:33:00 -0500 (EST) From: Alexander Samuel McDiarmid <am2o+ at andrew.cmu.edu> Subject: mead does anyone out there have a recipie for mead? actually I want a fast recipie, the one I have requires six months and one year is suggested. thanks -A. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 93 12:57:53 -0800 From: mark at verdix.com (Mark Lundquist) Subject: Can I use this keg? My brother inherited an empty beer keg from some college roommates, who moved out without returning their keg. It just didn't seem right to throw the think away, so he's had this beer keg in a shed in our folks' back yard for a couple of years now, probably with a bunch of other stuff that it just didn't seem right to throw away. Anyhow, the other day he thought of me, thought of that beer keg, and gave me a call. So we visited Mom and Dad. Much to my disappointment, the keg (a quarter barrel) was a "one-holer". From what I have heard, these aren't suitable for homebrewers, because you have to have a special machine to wash 'em out. Is there any way that I can adapt this thing for home use, or am I stuck with a worthless piece of junk? It seems like the filling and cleaning issues could be taken care of by cutting a bung hole, *except*...except I'd still need a way to clean out the internal plumbing of the keg. Any ideas? Also, the keg is aluminum so any fittings that I might need would have to be TIG welded. Thanks for any help! - --Mark PS This keg was actually not empty, it was "almost empty", in that special way that only an almost-empty keg can be after a couple of years! Phew!! Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 93 18:18:45 -0600 From: "Chauncey T. Griggs" <grig0009 at student.tc.umn.edu> Subject: Floating Coins In HBD#1054, arf at ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling) writes: >I didn't have a silver dollar handy this afternoon but I had no problem >floating a Costa Rican 25 Centimos piece on a glass of the World's Greatest >Beer. Is that anyting like a wooden nickel??? :^) Chauncey Griggs (grig0009 at student.tc.umn.edu) - ---------------------- Science is just facts; just as houses are made of stones, * ^^ * so is science made of facts; but a pile of stones is not *^^^^^^*** a house and a collection of facts is not necessarily science. * ^ ^* * -Henri Poincaire' * :^) * * * > < * * My opinions are purely my own (unless somebody agrees with me). * *** ******** Chauncey Griggs (grig0009 at student.tc.umn.edu) Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 93 15:37 From: CCASTELL.UNIX11 at mailsrv2.eldec.com (CCASTELL) Subject: Sparge-O-Matic I was wondering if anyone has tried Sparge-Magic from Scientific Brewing Systems. It's your typical two-bucket-with-grain-bag system EXCEPT that the hose coming out the bottom of the bucket goes to a carboy stopper. The stopper also has a hose running to a gizmo (pardon my use of technical jargon) that connects to a faucet which creates a vacum in in the carboy. The wort is essentially "sucked" out of the grain rather than allowing it to slowly flow using gravity. Alledgedly, this method allows one to use sparge water with no concern about temperature. I've used it five times with varying degrees of success. Does anyone have any comments on such a system (based on experience, common sense, gut feel, conventional wisdom, or folk lore)? Should such a system produce better extraction rates (as claimed)? Would it tend to suck things out of the grain that would be best left where they were? Thanks. Charles Castellow ccastell at eldec.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1993 15:30:41 -0600 (CST) From: STOREY at fender.msfc.nasa.gov (BadAssAstronomer) Subject: cleaning carboys Hi I'm looking for some cleaning suggestions for carboys etc. My last 3 batches of brew have had a acidic flavor in them. I have been gradually been getting into all grain brewing in these last few batches, and I attributed the off-flavor to this change. Everything else I do has remained pretty much the same. A friend suggested that maybe I wasn't cleaning things well enough. I just sorta brushed it off, until I started thinking about it. Maybe I'm getting a little lazy in my cleaning etc. I have used clorox since I started brewing. Also, I read that sometimes cleaning with clorox can add "flavor" to your brew. Anyone out there want to take the time to let me know how they clean their brew equipment. I would especially be interested in cleansers other than clorox. thanks ahead scott Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1993 18:01:24 -0800 (PST) From: Peter Maxwell <peterm at aoraki.dtc.hp.com> Subject: desperately seeking help Dear brewing experts, I'm desperately searching for what I'm doing wrong in my extract brewing. The trouble is beer which (I think) develops a strong flavor after being in the bottle for a short while. I never had this problem while brewing using kits, where I never boiled anything, just dumping the kit directly into the fermenter. My latest problem is a batch which I bottled 11/30 last year and tried last night, to be very disappointed in the strong flavor. It's hard to describe but is similar to one which I dislike in another brew in which I used amber extract, crystal and chocolate malts. I thought I'd used too much chocolate malt that time. The peculiar thing is that this flavor was not apparent at bottling time. I think my sanitation is good, by soaking all the bottles in bleach overnight, and the caps also. The flavor is kind-of burnt, but there were no black marks on the inside of the boiler. This latest batch was originally brewed in a 3-gallon batch using M&F light extract, although the final product is far from light. I used 3.3 lbs and boiled this in 1.5 gallons of water for 60 minutes with 1/2 oz of Pride of Ringwood hops. The yeast was Nottingham Ale. Can anyone give me pointers to any possible problems? Can beer oxidize in a month to produce a strong flavor? What other things can result in beer apparently changing so much. Is it maybe subjective that it's changed and the original tasting when it was flat and with cloudy yeast in suspension sort of disguised the flavor? If the wort was caramelized during the boil would this show up as a strong flavor? Is 60 minutes too long for a "concentrated" extract boil? Should I try reducing it to 30 minutes and use more hops? The one thing this beer and the other dark one have in common is a 60 minute boil. Is an electric element and a stainless steel stock pot a risky combination? Any advice would be much appreciated. I've had so little luck with migrating from kits that I'm almost ready to return to them, but somehow that smacks of a retrograde step and a defeatist attitude. Yours desperately, Peter Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 93 19:04:07 PST From: Bruce Mueller <mueller at sdd.hp.com> Subject: HDPE--Kill it dead? Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 93 19:49:46 PST From: greg at bandit.Berkeley.EDU (Greg Jesus Wolodkin) Subject: Physics, surface tension, and bubbles ;-) In reading Papazian's book (I paid for my copy ;-) I came across a statement in Appendix 9 (p.375) that made me curious. To quote, "A big explosive bubble feeling in the mouth is due to the use of fermentable ingredients other than barley malt. A beer made with all barley malt will tend to have a smaller (almost a creamy sensation) bubble feeling in the mouth. This phenomenon can be explained in terms of physics, surface tension, and bubbles, but need not be gone into here." This reads as if it should have a few smileys at the end of it.. is there any truth to this statement? Any comments/explanations? While I have a strong physics background, I don't see how one can separate malted barley from malted wheat, corn sugar, honey, or in general from the myriad of other fermentables in terms of the bubble size which will be produced in the finished beer. As I read it, this statement has nothing to do with priming (i.e. the common corn sugar vs. malt extract vs. gyle controversy) as far as I can tell, but seems to refer to the entire grain/adjunct bill. So Charlie, if you're reading this, explain away ;-) Best wishes, Greg Wolodkin greg at bandit.berkeley.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 93 21:20 CST From: arf at ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling) Subject: Cold Plates >From: Tim Norris <71650.1020 at compuserve.com> Subject: Re: COLD PLATES leave me cold..... >Cold plates are the most amazing things I've ever seen for serving ice cold beer from warm kegs in the middle of a Chicago August. > BEWARE: They are not a great alternative to proper longterm/everyday serving and refrigeration of precious homebrew. I see no reason why they are not a great alternative to everyday serving but I do agree that a caveat is in order regarding long term storage. Ageing and storing beer in a refrigerator is not the same as aging and storing at room temperature. I have no personal experience with what difference it makes but I am sure the experts have many. My only concern is that the beer not spoil in Summer and thus far I have had no problem but I never seem to be able to keep a keg for more that a month or so and it has never spoiled in that time. I think the issue would only be the characters of a true lager. I have been bottling a sixer of each batch and storing them in the fridge so that in a few months I will have some properly aged to compare with my keg stuff. >At recent 'all draft' beer tasting/competitions here in The Windy City, we've had the darned things freeze up on us and it seems that the only temperature the beer comes out at is 'ICE COLD'. Not to doubt your anecdotal experience but there is nothing in my physics books that would explain how that could happen unless someone thought you were making ice cream and put salt in the ice. It do however, make very cold beer but there is no law that says you have to put a ton of ice on it. For a two glass serving, I use about two cups of cubes and about half are still there after drawing the beer in winter. In Summer they are just about gone. > #1 reason not to use cold plates: > Much too difficult to decorate with refrigerator magnets. Don't want to be flamed for a commercial but I have a special this week on aluminum magnets and they are designed to work best on horizontal surfaces. #10 reason TO use cold plates: You never have to lift a full keg off the ground. JS Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1055, 01/14/93