HOMEBREW Digest #1075 Thu 11 February 1993

Digest #1074 Digest #1076

		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator

  hbus & ibus (Jim Grady)
  QC, Archive, Snobs, Iodophor (Jack Schmidling)
  Malted Barley (Michael D. Galloway)
  DAB recipes? Yeast Culturing, and others. (thutt)
  Re: John Harvard Brew House (Jonathan A. Rodin)
  stainless-steel pot (Drew Scott)
  Re: Spiced Ales, DME vs. syrup (David Van Iderstine)
  beer (Gregory C. Seher)
  3.2 a/w, Spaten Hefe Weizen, Never mind the full grainers, d (Ulick Stafford)
  all-grain snobs (Andy Rowan)
  A New Journal (Martin A. Lodahl)
  Re: recirculation FAQ (continued) (korz)
  Chinook hops (Joseph Nathan Hall)
  fining -> diacetyl (Russ Gelinas)
  A Beer Odyssey (Act I) (Richard Stueven)
  hops plugs & G.W. Kent (NOT!) ("Spencer W. Thomas")
  Re: Wet dream/ridding oil from plastics (korz)
  Worst brew (SCHREMPP_MIKE/HP4200_42)
  Re: Hops Cultivation (korz)
  Re: Spiced Ale ("John DeCarlo")
  Re: chimay yeast (korz)
  Re: chimay yeast/recipe idea (Drew Lawson)
  Malting Wheat (Kelly Jones)
  BBW wins again! (Chuck Cox)
  Souring Wort (Dan Wood)
  Archives (Richard Stueven)
  Re: diacetyl? (korz)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 9 Feb 93 8:26:42 EST From: Jim Grady <jimg at hpwarga.wal.hp.com> Subject: hbus & ibus First of all, thanks for all the charts and formulae for hbus -> ibus given boiling time, S.G., etc. I do still have a question however. I have seen that pellets have different utilization than whole hops (both in this forum and in some of the homebrew books); indeed hop plugs have yet another utilization rate. Yet, none of the charts nor formulae contain any reference to the form of the hops. Does anyone have any suggestions here? Am I worrying too much? Should I just use what I have as a starting point and see how I like the results? - -- Jim Grady |"Talent imitates, genius steals." Internet: jimg at wal.hp.com | Phone: (617) 290-3409 | T. S. Eliot Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 93 07:40 CST From: arf at ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling) Subject: QC, Archive, Snobs, Iodophor >Fm: Jim Busch >PS: to JS- My lauter tun/open fermenter does indeed have a spigot. The only problem with taking ferment SG readings is that what comes out is yeast sludge! True but my "QC" samples were tongue in cheek. They never get near a hydrometer. The first squirt is a bit yeasty but with the you-know-what screen at the other end of the spigot, I get a fairly clear "sample" to taste. >From: neilm at juliet.ll.mit.edu ( Neil Mager ) >Subject: Special Archive Proposal Let me make another proposal. How bout explaining what an archive is and how one goes about accessing it before you expand on a special archive. ............ > Various, Snobs... Again, I am forced to defend my statements on "all-grain snobs" but prefer to do it without personal references because this thread is simply going the wrong way again. I am sure that I could benefit from sensitivity training but I wasn't able to sell my business at 40 and retire to a life of leasure because I was a fool or a tyrant. One key to success is to find out what people really intend, want and mean and not try to explain to them what they mean. I listed many reasons why people make extract or all-grain beer, some positive and some negative and some with a value to be asigned by the brewer or reader. To isolate the meanest and thrash the messenger with it is not only unfair but deflects the discussion into an endless stream of usless personal attacks instead of getting to the bottom of the issue. Viz...... The economics is one major factor in the issue and it certainly is true that one can make a batch of extract beer with less initial expense than a single batch of all-grain beer. However, as one refines his extract process, he ends up within a few dollars of an all-grain brewery. When you get right down to it, the only thing one really needs to do all-grain is a large enough kettle to boil it in. These are available for $30 at ACE Hardware and $5 more will get you a homemade Easymasher in the same store. I am sure if one haunts garage sales, one could get it down even further. That and less than $10 for ingredients will put you in the all-grain business. Most of the rest of the gadgets and gizmos are just as useful and important to the serious extract brewer as they are to the all-grainer. One final point, I posted the same article to Compuserve and received not a single negative comment. Again, I am not sure what this portends but it is food for thought. >From: "Rick (R.) Cavasin" <cav at bnr.ca> >My incentive for using an iodophor was the hope that it could be reused more than bleach (iodine less volatile than chlorine?) and hence less would go down the drain (and into the air I'm breathing!). Precisely my reason (breathing) for trying it. That is, in addition to the fact that I got a free sample in the mail. However, I don't think that it has anywhere near the useful life of bleach. I do not feel comfortable with the 1 minute contact time with a sanitizer so I always used bleach full strength or at least 50:50 and I use this stuff, 1 oz to the gal. There is no shortage of clean water around here so I have no qualms about thorough rinsing. I don't like the chlorine fumes and I usually wear a respirator when doing a keg or my pump and hoses. I like being able to do a simple one time rinse with the iodophor and not having to worry about the fumes or pitting my kegs. I was a bit disconcerted when a fresh batch came through the pump almost clear. I suspected oxidation so I did some experiments by shaking samples in closed testubes and the color does not change no matter how much or over what period I shake it. I have no idea where the iodine goes or why it changes color. The is not enough water in the system to dilute that much. I guess, untill I have a bad batch of beer, I will continue to use it. As as aside, I tried using it for the starch test and it is totally ambiguous and unsuited for the test. js Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1993 08:43:46 -0500 From: mgx at ornl.gov (Michael D. Galloway) Subject: Malted Barley OK, I've got my 10 gal. cooler with false bottom and associated plumbing, I've got my 8.5 gal pot, and I've got my immersion chiller: I guess I'm ready to mash. I am going to get 8-10 lbs of British Pale Ale malt this weekend and do "it". However, I recall (please pardon my poor memory) a thread (hey, a real thread and not a flame thread!) pertaining to high quality malts (Belgium?). Could someone with a good handle on that thread please point me to the appropriate HBD issue numbers or email me a summary. I am interested in using these malts. Also, could someone post or email this newbie a description of what comprises a high quality malt (proteins/nitrogen/modification/?), i.e, what are the important factors. Are all malts fully modified these days? How do you determine this information? Hey BadAssAstronomer, how about a few bottles of my first all-grain batch? Inquiring (and Forgetful) Minds Want to Know! Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 93 08:45:59 EST From: thutt <thutt at MAIL.CASI.NASA.GOV> Subject: DAB recipes? Yeast Culturing, and others. Does anyone have a recipe for a DAB beer clone? If not, do you know what IBU it has? What type of malt/hops would produce that flavor? Secondly, what is the general concensus on Bigfoot Barley Wine? I tried it, and felt that it tasted EXACTLY like SN Pale Ale, only more alcoholic; I was not impressed... I expected something different. Is this how a BW is supposed to taste? Could someone provide me with the number to one of the science houses that sells flasks & test tubes? Does anyone have any 'caveat emptors' for the mail order places that are advertised in Zymurgy? (Are some less reliable than others? I've noticed some strange variations in price too...) I've also gotten a book published by G.W. Kent on Culturing Yeast that should be avoided, if you like the English language. The book seems to be technically correct, but is so full of errors (bad editing, grammatical errors) that I will probably write a nasty letter of complaint to the publisher (it's in its third!!!!! printing, and it STILL has this many errors). Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 93 09:12:46 -0500 From: rodin at ftp.com (Jonathan A. Rodin) Subject: Re: John Harvard Brew House The beers currently sold at John Harvard Brew House are not brewed there. They only recently got their license to brew and so their first beers are still weeks away from being servable. Jon - -- Jon Rodin FTP Software, Inc. voice: (508) 659-6261 rodin at ftp.com 2 High Street fax: (508) 794-4488 North Andover, MA 01845 Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 93 10:05:19 EST From: drew at scorpio.ic.cmc.ca (Drew Scott) Subject: stainless-steel pot For those of you who live in eastern Canada, I found a source for 30 quart (US) stainless-steel pots. I don't know who manufactures them (no label) but they seem fairly sturdy. The regular price is only $65 but I got one on sale for $50. I know the same pot is sold elsewhere for over twice this price. The address of the store is: Ares Equipement Ltee 4913 Boul. St-Charles Pierrefonds (Montreal), Quebec H9H 3E4 Tele: 514-624-0386 Fax: 514-624-4550 I have no idea if they will accept orders over the phone. Andrew Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 93 09:41:56 EST From: orgasm!davevi at uunet.UU.NET (David Van Iderstine) Subject: Re: Spiced Ales, DME vs. syrup In HBD #1073, Jonathon Knight asks: |>has anyone tried BOTH the technique of adding whole spices at some |>point to the boil AND adding powdered spices at the end of the boil? I used to add whole spices somewhere mid-boil, and found that, for some of the spices, their aroma/taste was being boiled off, particularly things like orange zest or vanilla. Others, like ginger, would last through and overwhelm completely. I tend to steer clear of ginger now, both `cuz it easily overwhelms, and I just don't like its flavor! I switched over to powdered spices near the end of the boil (5-8 minutes) and am much happier with the results now. It has become very easy to get consistency from batch to batch with this method, I find. I've settled in on a particular recipe of my own creation which I have made several years running now, and I can be assured it'll "taste right" when done. There may be some dispute, though, over just how fresh powdered spices might be, and that'd I think affect their utilization in the wort. The only advantage I can see to whole spices over powdered is this "freshness thing". And for certain spices, like orange zest, there is no powdered alternative, nor need there be. Add that one near the end of the boil for best results. And be aware that "oily" spices, like coriander, will severely affect head retention and even bottle conditioning (carbonation)- that is, really retard it! Finally, I find it easier to control quantities with the powdered versions. And believe me, they're *small* quantities! Nothing over 1 1/2 teaspoons goes in, some as little as 1/2 teaspoon! On the subject of dry malt vs. syrup extract-I use only Munton & Fison dry malt extract, have for 5 or 6 years, make great beer w/it, see no reason to change. Also, I buy it 55 lbs. at a time, to minimize cost. I go w/their lightest variety, & use specialty grains for flavor/color. Dave Van Iderstine =========================================================================== == Dave Van Iderstine Senior Software Engineer == == Xerox Imaging Systems, Inc. == == UUCP: uunet!pharlap!orgasm!davevi davevi at pharlap.com :INTERNET == ==-----------------------------------------------------------------------== == "I haven't got time for instant gratification!" == ==-----------------------------------------------------------------------== == "I've got plenty of time, however, for that ALL-EXTRACT beer." == =========================================================================== Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 93 9:49:05 CST From: Gregory C. Seher <lippy at cwis.unomaha.edu> Subject: beer Yee, yee i know 'dat all you'ds be makin' home 'de brew. Yet we de see all of the sea, in my bell-e Coors Light 'tis for thee. Peace. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 93 10:59:40 EST From: Ulick Stafford <ulick at schumann.helios.nd.edu> Subject: 3.2 a/w, Spaten Hefe Weizen, Never mind the full grainers, d Tom Colvin regrets that only 3.2 alc beer is available in grocery stores in Utah. 2 points. That is not unusual even in more liberal states such as Minnesota. In Indana 3.2 are not sold, but grocery stores need a licence to sell beer, and can't sell it chilled. And nowhere can sell it on Sundays, unlike in neighbouring states due to a bible belt part in the south. But at least it is cheaper than neighbouring states, and we don't have an inane law like MI's 10cent return charge (but why can't all beer sale laws and prices be like Wisconsin?). 3.2 is 3.2 by weight ~4% by volume, so it is not gruesomely weak. It is stronger than many European table beers. Spaten usually sell Hefe Weizen under the brand name, Fransiskaner, which is readily available. I cultured from it once, think I got Krausen, but by the time I was ready to pitch, it was not lively and the culture seemed to have a aa tart lactic acid flavor, so I used a substitute (Fleischman's baking yeast - don't laugh the beer eventually was award winning), but I suspect with proper sanitation it is a viable yeast. Never mind whole grain snobs, us decocters look down upon them with an even more snobbish disdain - what they are too lazy to stir a thick decoction and spend up to 8 hours mashing (but then I only do double decoctions and I'm sure triple decocters think I'm ignorant and lazy, and hop growers and barley malters think they're lazy, and people who grow and harvest, and malt and mash their own barley and wheat and irish moss look down on them). RE natural carbonation. I have had a hard time priming lagers even with sterile wort, canned from the batch. The perfectly cleared lagered beers have so few viable yeast cells that carbonations takes 3 weeks or more. I will just prime ales and will now krauesen lagers in future (and us krauseners look down with a snobbish disdain on primers - even those who prime with sterile wort and especially those who think they`re krauseners because they`ve never read a book more advanced than Papazian's work, which of course us advanced snobs know, incorrectly defines Krauesening). :-) :-) for humor impaired Ulick Stafford ** Heineken!?! Fuck that shit ... Pabst Blue Ribbon!!! ** (my very first sig ... now resurrected) Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 93 13:00:05 EST From: rowan at ocean.rutgers.edu (Andy Rowan) Subject: all-grain snobs Jack Schmidling (arf at ddsw1.mcs.com) writes in HBD 1071: >Keeping in mind that lots of people stick with extract because they are lazy, >paranoid or il-informed and further keeping in mind > [etc. etc.] >Having said that, I suggest it is the extract brewers' insecurity, >sensitivity and paranoia that creates the image that all-grain brewers are >snobs. Gee, Jack, you don't suppose it might also be because you characterize us as lazy, paranoid... Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 93 10:08:58 PST From: Martin A. Lodahl <pbmoss!malodah at PacBell.COM> Subject: A New Journal If you read the Celebrator this may be old news to you, but a new magazine devoted to the technical side of homebrewing, pub-brewing or microbrewing is about to make its debut. Called "Brewing Techniques", it will break new ground in homebrewing (as far as I know) by being an honest-to-goodness "peer review" journal. The Editorial Advisory Board (the peers who do the reviewing) consists of Patrick Baker, Byron Burch, Fred Eckhardt, Teri Fahrendorf, George Fix, Terry Foster, Mary Anne Gruber, Dave Miller, Greg Noonan, David Ryder and Bill Siebel. Impressive! The clear wort of usable brewing information certainly seems unlikely to be beclouded by the trub of unsupported speculation presented as fact, with a panel like that reviewing submissions. The magazine will be published 6 times a year, at a subscription price of $30. For an unspecified time there will be a $24 introductory rate for "charter" subscribers. To subscribe, send a note with your name and address information to: Brewing Techniques P. O. Box 3076 Eugene, OR 97403 You'll be billed after the release of the first issue, scheduled for May. To discuss advertising rates or editorial questions, call Stephen Mallery, Editor, at 503.683.1916. I think this may be the magazine many of us have been waiting for ... = Martin A. Lodahl Pacific*Bell Systems Analyst = = malodah at pbmoss.Pacbell.COM Sacramento, CA 916.972.4821 = = If it's good for ancient Druids, runnin' nekkid through the wuids, = = Drinkin' strange fermented fluids, it's good enough for me! 8-) = Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 93 12:22 CST From: korz at iepubj.att.com Subject: Re: recirculation FAQ (continued) I have one more piece of info on the recirculation issue that wouldn't fit in my last post. George Fix wrote: >A minor data point. Dave Miller uses 2 hours of recirculation >on a 15 bbl. (465 gal.) commercial brew. His recirculation times >with homebrews was shorter. > >Dave and I have discussed recirculation at length over the years. >He gets a grainy/husky flavor in his beers (homebrew and commercial) >which he finds to be attractive and desirable. I have different aspirations >for the beers I brew. Neither of these viewpoints are ameanable to >rational analysis. What we have here are matters of style, and subjective >opinion. Besides, just think what a boring world it would be if we were all >making the same beer with the same procedures. > >As Micah pointed out (at some point in the early summer), the low lipid levels >of US 2 row malt like Klages means that very little recirculation should >be needed to get a clear runoff. (Malt properly crushed helps here as well.) >Wort trub has a very high fatty acid content. The Belgium malts definitely >have a higher lipid content, and I find that recirculation of ~4 gallons in >a 13.3 gallon (50 liter) batch is needed to get proper clarification. So far >grainy tones are not indicated, but the final judgement will have to await >an analysis of the finished beer. If grainy flavors do show up, then I will >modify the recirculation procedure. > >George Fix Okay Chris, perhaps you would like to take all this and incorporate it into the FAQ? Note that first we need to debate/resolve the "need for lipids" issue. Al. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 93 12:23:33 EDT From: joseph at joebloe.maple-shade.nj.us (Joseph Nathan Hall) Subject: Chinook hops Kevin says: > ObBrewing: No takers on my question about flavor/aroma properties > of Chinook hops, huh? Do any commercial brews use them? The books I've read seem to disdain the use of Chinook for aroma and bouquet. I've used 'em for both bittering and aroma and don't recall that the results were particularly good or bad. The complaints are harshness and poor storability, if I recall. Centennial is far superior in my opinion. Try dry-hopping with a half and half mixture of German Hallertau and Centennial. Fragrant, fresh, and yummy. Wow! ================O Fortuna, velut Luna, statu variabilis================ uunet!joebloe!joseph (609) 273-8200 day joseph%joebloe at uunet.uu.net 2102 Ryan's Run East Rt 38 & 41 Maple Shade NJ 08052 Copyright 1993 by Joseph N. Hall. Permission granted to copy and redistribute freely over USENET and by email. Commercial use prohibited. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1993 13:56:24 -0500 (EST) From: R_GELINAS at UNHH.UNH.EDU (Russ Gelinas) Subject: fining -> diacetyl Lee M., I'd vote that adding finings early on in the secondary is what is causing the high diacetyl in your beer. In fact, this is just what happens with Samuel Smith beers, except their yeast flocs out because of the nature of their slate fermentation vessels. Give the yeast more time in suspension in the secondary to reduce the diacetyl. Another source of high diacetyl is low oxygen levels at the beginning of the primary ferment. If your ferments are slow or weak, and finish with a high final gravity, this may also be adding to your problem. Russ G. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1993 10:58:56 -0800 From: Richard Stueven <gak at wrs.com> Subject: A Beer Odyssey (Act I) A Beer Odyssey I don't much like sweet beers. The Brown Ale style is not one of my favorites. I'm not so much a hophead as I am a "malthead". I like beers heavy, fairly dry, and very well-balanced. Bitter is fine, flowery is right out. (I point this out so you'll have a handle on my perspective later on. Beer with me!) Having said that, one of the best beers I've ever tasted is Downtown Brown Ale, from Lost Coast Brewing in Eureka. It's just sweet enough, with just the right level of hops; it's one of my favorite beers of all time. I had my first taste of Downtown Brown Ale at the 1992 Fort Mason Beer Festival in San Francisco, and I've enjoyed it at a number of festivals since then. I had always determined to visit the brewery and sample their beers firsthand, and one particular weekend in August was finally the right time. My plan: drive from San Leandro to Eureka on Saturday, visit Lost Coast in Eureka and Humboldt Brewing in Arcata (as long as I'm there), spend the night in Eureka, and drive home Sunday morning. Simple enough. The Friday before the trip, I met my friend Jake at Brewpub on the Green in Fremont. We talked about his recent trip to the Hockey Hall of Fame in Toronto, we had a great dinner (they make some fine hamburgers there, honest!), and we had a taste of all of their beers: Wheat - 4.0%. Seems to be an American style, but hints of Bavarian (clove) character. Maybe a wheat lager? Lager - 4.2%. Same characteristics as Wheat, but not as sweet. Amber - 4.2%. Nice color, fruity like an amber should be. Good stuff. Very slight Irish moss (?) flavor. ESB - 6.0%. Just like the Amber, only more so. The alcohol really comes through in the flavor. Porter - 5.0%. OK - rather light and benign. ("Benign" being the opposite of "assertive".) Like many of the microbreweries, the brewers at Brewpub on the Green have really improved their beers over the last year or so. So many breweries were making...well, bad beer a year or two ago, and those same breweries are making some of the best now. Brewpub on the Green is no exception. At eight o'clock in the morning on Saturday, August 15, I got in my trusty Cougar and hit the road. I fought the early weekend Bay Area traffic and headed north on US 101. As usual, I skipped breakfast... why should today be any different? (Little did I know...) Around ten o'clock, I was feeling mighty dry. I checked my map for potential lunchtime stops...and there it was! Just an hour away - the Mendocino Brewing Company of Hopland, California! I had been there before...good beer, good food, and most importantly today, perfectly placed for a lunchtime respite! I drove into Hopland around 10:45, just a few minutes before opening time. I waited in my car, checking my Celebrator and my map for any more potential stops on the way to Eureka. Hmmm...Anderson Valley is out of the way, and North Coast is even further. Too bad. Magically, the clock struck eleven...it's opening time! And would you believe the added bonus: it was the brewery's Ninth Anniversary. The party started immediately; the barbecue was fired up, and the Eye of the Hawk Ale was flowing. There was a geezer at the bar (named "Norm", appropriately enough) who claimed that he had been there every day since the day the place opened. There was a camera crew working on a documentary of Northern California brewpubs. I tell ya, the place was hoppin'! For lunch: a barbecued buffalo steak, done to perfection. I had a round of samplers to go with my lunch: Peregrine - Thin, yellow. Very light. Certainly a good "transition" beer, useful for the re-education of drinkers of industrial beer. Blue Heron - Somewhat better. Slightly more body and flavor, little aroma. Red Tail - OK amber ale. Good color, flavor not as strong as it could be. MUCH better on tap than bottled! Black Hawk - Good black thick roasty. A little sweeter than I like, but good enough for serious quaffing! Eye of the Hawk - I need a pint of this to tell if I really like it. My pint of the Eye of the Hawk Ale was really remarkable. It's their "special" ale, brewed only for special occasions like today. It's an outstanding, full-bodied ale, darker than the Red Tail, and with a similar but much more assertive flavor. It's too bad this is such a rare beer. [To Be Continued...] Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 93 14:35:51 EST From: "Spencer W. Thomas" <Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu> Subject: hops plugs & G.W. Kent (NOT!) I was at G.W. Kent on Saturday, so I asked them about hops plugs. Randy said they had added them to their catalog this year, but then were unable to get any from the supplier. Something about a bad crop this year. So, G.W. Kent is not shipping hops plugs at this time. If you thought you got some with the G.W. Kent label, you must be confused. The only ones I've seen are imported by Crosby & Baker. He also said that as far as he knows, any plugs on the market now must be from the 1991 crop. If this is true, then my experience with plugs speaks very well for their keeping ability. As I said yesterday, the plugs I bought recently had the freshest hops I've ever used. =Spencer W. Thomas | Info Tech and Networking, B1911 CFOB, 0704 "Genome Informatician" | Univ of Michigan, Ann Arbor, MI 48109 Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu | 313-764-8065, FAX 313-764-4133 Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 93 13:33 CST From: korz at iepubj.att.com Subject: Re: Wet dream/ridding oil from plastics Jack writes (quoting Paul): >Bacto WL Differential Medium has the same formula as Bacto WL Nutrient Medium, with the addition of 0.004 g of Actidione per liter. This inhibits the development of yeasts without interfering with the development of bacteria generally encountered in beers. A most enlightening article. However, if this is in response to the discussion about a medium that rejects or encourages "wild yeast", it seems to confirm my opinion that such a medium is a wet dream. I believe another poster mentioned that the media which contains the Brom Crestal Green (sp?) will identify different yeast strains because each has its own characteristic pH, thus being stained a slightly different shade of green. This is the key to the isolation of yeasts using this media. But you can still have wet dreams about it if you wish... ;^). *********************** Tom writes: >Our brewing club recently brewed a beer with chocolate in it. Does anyone >have any idea on cleaning the oil out of the plastic tubing and buckets >easily? We were trying to avoid using dish washing detergent since they >normally leave behind stuff for anti-spotting and who knows what else. Well, it has been pointed out in many texts and in this forum, that there's BIG difference between soap and detergent. I'm not a chemist, so I don't really know what that difference is (chemists, please chime-in and explain). I too, have been wondering if using dishwasher *detergent* (one without any special additives for sheeting, i.e. anti-spotting) would be okay for glassware and brewing equipment. What about pure Sodium Carbonate (washing soda)? Al. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 93 11:57:16 -0800 From: SCHREMPP_MIKE/HP4200_42 at pollux.svale.hp.com Subject: Worst brew Tim Anderson's discussion of "bucket conditioned beer" sounded a whole lot like hte first time I fermented something (on purpose). A couple of suggestions from my experience: 1. Steal the sugar from a restaurant packet by packet. 2. When the flavor of the brew prevents it from being consumed, add some unsweetened lime Koolaid. (I did this before Jonestown made lime Koolaid famous... or was that grape?) Mike Schrempp Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 93 13:18 CST From: korz at iepubj.att.com Subject: Re: Hops Cultivation Brian writes: >The Problem: I have no idea as to what variety these hops might be. We >live in the infamous Willamette Valley, so I at least have the obvious >first guess. Does anyone out there know of a good reference book that >would allow me to key out this beast. Perhaps a "Peterson's Field >Guide to Hops and Grains." I suggest the Hops Special issue of Zymurgy -- in it there are photos of virtually every common hop cone and it's corresponding leaf. Since you live in the Willamette Valley, I suggest that you make use of the wealth of local knowledge. Take some cuttings to a grower and ask them to identify. I'll bet that the big commercial facilities have extensive libraries too. >Other Questions: Papazian suggests that the soil for growing hops should >be loamy and kept continually moist during the growing season. We have >excruciatingly high clay content in our soils and have never watered at all. I give each plant about 6.25 gallons of water every morning via a timer-controlled soaker hose. Water makes a big difference. Initially, I gave each hill (4: Hallertauer, Hersbrucker, Nugget and Willamette) three 1 foot coils of soaker hose for 15 minutes per day. I soon noticed that the Willamette was doing much better than the Nugget, which was doing better than the Hersbrucker, etc. I noticed that the soaker hose was spewing more at the near end than at the far end (I should have known). After re-arranging the hose to give the far-end hills more hose, the growth rate seems to have evened out. >Nevertheless the plant has done quite well. Will the quality of the >hops be affected by my lack of care? Or should I follow the adage "If >it ain't broke, don't fix it?" Also, how much will AAU vary with time >of harvest, amount of watering, etc. And lastly, is there any moderately >low-tech way of determining AAU of homegrown hops? If you pick too early or too late, you will not get as much AAU as if you picked at the right time. It seems to me that the general consensus is that when the cones begin to feel light, springy and papery as opposed to heavier, smushy and damp, it's time to pick. I found that not all the hops are ripe at one time. I just set up a ladder and picked-off the ripe ones once per week. I've asked about low-tech ways to determine %AA and the only one I could come up with is brew experimental batches and use your tastebuds. If someone knows how to determine %AA using simple chem, please post! Al. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 93 15:19:02 EST From: "John DeCarlo" <jad at pegasus.mitre.org> Subject: Re: Spiced Ale >From: "Knight,Jonathan G" <KNIGHTJ at AC.GRIN.EDU> >I made my first spiced ale this year and boiled orange zest, ginger root, >cinnamon sticks and whole cloves for about the last thirty minutes. It >has a bit more bite than I intended, although the beer does taste quite >good. I am wondering whether I boiled the stuff too long and whether >powdered spices at the end of the boil would produce a "kinder, gentler" >brew. OK, some more opinions: 1) Why should it make a difference whether the spices are powdered or not, as far as your question goes? Does it assume that all the spices are left in the brewpot and none get into the primary? 2) I am now firmly convinced that the only way to add spices is to "dry spice", by adding the spices only to the secondary. After all, we know that the amount of flavor and aroma contributed by hops boiled a long time is much less than that of hops boiled a short time or hops not boiled at all (dry hopping). Why should spices be different? And since I only use spices for flavor and aroma, I dry spice. Did a real nice job on my Pumpkin Pie Ale. Plus, you don't have to use powdered spices if you don't want to, just let them sit longer in the secondary. Fidonet: 1:109/131 Internet: jdecarlo at mitre.org Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 93 14:01 CST From: korz at iepubj.att.com Subject: Re: chimay yeast Drew writes: >The yeast in Chimay is not a single strain. It is either 3 or 5. I >forget which, but I think it is 3. If you plate it and isolate a >single cell for building a culture, you will only get one of the >three. To the best of my memory, every source I've read says that Chimay is brewed from a single yeast strain. It has been widely publicised that Father Theodore was the man who isolated Chimay's current fermentation yeast and really cleaned up the beer. I've read somewhere, perhaps the bottle, that Chimay adds yeast during bottling - -- I recall that there was no mention from this source of whether the yeast added at bottling time is the same as the fermentation yeast or different. Nor do I recall if they mentioned filtering out the fermentation yeast. The bottling yeast may be the same as the fermentation yeast since maintaining two strains of yeast is twice as hard as maintaing one and it's not like the bottling yeast in Chimay is a particularly good flocculator (like SNPA's yeast is). Orval is brewed from a single yeast also, but then bottled with a mixture of 5 yeast strains. My source is one of the Jackson books (either the pocket guide or the New World Guide to Beer... I suspect the latter). I feel, from my experiments, that one of the 5 bottling strains is the fermentation strain, the one that produces the characteristic banana/bubblegum nose of Orval. Another multi-strain yeast is Whitbread. George Fix wrote this quite a while ago that Whitbread is a three-strain yeast. My cousin has noted that along with the change in bottles, Whitbread Ale has lost that characteristic "dark bread" flavor. I have yet to verify this. Anyone else notice this? Note that Wyeast #1098 bears a striking resemblence to Whitbread yeast ;^). Al. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 93 12:05:56 PST From: lawson at acuson.com (Drew Lawson) Subject: Re: chimay yeast/recipe idea > The yeast in Chimay is not a single strain. It is either 3 or 5. I Yea, I was wrong. That's what I get for trying to be helpful and posting from a year old memory. Drew Lawson If you're not part of the solution, lawson at acuson.com you're part of the precipitate Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 93 13:15:31 -0700 From: Kelly Jones <k-jones at ee.utah.edu> Subject: Malting Wheat Does anyone out there know anything about malting wheat? I buy (unmalted) whole wheat (for baking purposes) for about 15 cents a pound. Looking at this the other day, I thought I could make some decent Weizen if I could maybe get a small batch of the wheat malted. In addition to expanding my skills as a brewer, this would save me a bundle over what my homebrew supplier charges for malted wheat (about $1.50 per pound - an order of magnitude higher!) Anyway, I tried malting a little the other day, and found it hard to determine when the grain was fully modified. The "steely-mealy" test (mentioned, I believe, by Miller) does not seem to work here. The grain, when wet, is soft and mealy, but is completely steely when dried. I even tried mashing several ounces of this malted wheat in a "micro-micro" mash tun (along with about 33% 6-row barley malt), but got very poor conversion. Does anyone have any experience with this, or know any good references? Email me, and I'll post any significant/interesting information, as well as let you know if I have any success with this. (Or does anyone else really care?) Too busy to make a fancy sigline... Kelly Jones (k-jones at ee.utah.edu) Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 93 10:42:15 EST From: chuck at synchro.com (Chuck Cox) Subject: BBW wins again! Here's an update on the Sam Adams vs Boston Beer Works nonsense. Jim Koch (dba Boston Beer Company, aka Sam Adams) lost his appeal in Federal District Court. Koch has the right to appeal again, and given his attitude he is likely to do so. His lawsuit against the Commonwealth Brewing Co is still pending. I wasn't at the trial, but I heard that Koch presented witnesses who claimed to have gone to the BBW, disliked the beer, and blamed it on the BBC. Under cross-examination they were all discredited. One admitted to being too drunk to remember any details of the visit. Another objected to a 'foul aroma' which turned out to be the smell of a batch being brewed (something Sam Adams fans generally have to go to Pittsburg to experience). Like the original suit, the ruling on the appeal was quick and decisive; Jim Koch does not own the word "Boston". So what happened to me? Koch never followed up on the subpoena they served me. We had to reschedule it, and they never got back to me with a new date. I think they lost interest when it became obvious that I am not an employee or representative of the Beer Works or the Sunset Grill, and that I was hostile and well-prepared. I got to keep the $46 federal witness fee, and Koch had to spend some money to file & serve the subpoena, so I did my part to waste Koch's money. I am still boycotting Sam Adams products, and I urge you all to do the same. Since Koch has introduced more lawsuits than beer styles in the last year, I think it is safe to say that the Boston Beer Company is a law firm and does not deserve to call itself a brewery. I want to thank you all once again for your letters of encouragement and outrage. I had intended to keep them all in defiance of Koch's subpoena of my personal correspondence, but I ran out of disk space and had to delete them. By the way, I never heard from the person who is forwarding my posts to Koch. I am not surprised. It is obvious that the weasel doesn't have the spine to stand up for his/her own actions, typical for a Koch crony. To Koch & his email droid: You are both losers, and the brewing community would be better off without you. I will continue to publicly criticize your business practices, and encourage consumers to boycott your products. I am thinking of starting a new brewery, "The Adams Family Boston Brewing Company". Any interested investors? Any interested attorneys? (for those who recently tuned into the HBD: Jim Koch has taken to suing any brewery that uses the word "Boston" in the company name or on any of their products. I, and all my personal correspondence referring to local breweries were subpoenaed by Koch in his appeal against the Boston Beer Works. I have no affiliation with the BBW except as a satisfied customer and friend of the owners. The subpoena was pure harassment meant to stifle my outspoken public criticism of Koch & Co.) - -- Chuck "Boston" Cox <chuck at synchro.com> Starve a lawyer - boycott Sam Adams Beer. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 93 15:29:48 CST From: wood at ranger.rtsg.mot.com (Dan Wood) Subject: Souring Wort A brewing friend has become enamored with soured beers, Samuel Smith's Taddy Porter in particular. He would like to replicate this taste in his own brew, using an extract recipe. We both frequently do partial mashes with adjunct grains, so suggestions in that vein are certainly within his capabilities. So, if anyone could share his experiences, both success and failures in souring beers (intentionally :) we would be most grateful. Please feel free to respond via email if you prefer, I will summarize and post a follow-up on results. Happy brewing! Or, "fermenting" :( for those who share my pride in producing fine beers from extract. Dan Wood wood at rtsg.mot.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1993 13:33:05 -0800 From: Richard Stueven <gak at wrs.com> Subject: Archives In HBD# 1071, ex-beginner Russ Gelinas recommends: >Read *all* the HBD archives. Yes, all. IMHO, >the HBD archives are perhaps the richest source of homebrewing info >available. Here at Wind River Systems Technical Support, we have a knowledge base system called TOPIC (made by Verity in Mountain View CA). It lets us search all of our old calls, bug reports, useful email, etc, so we can answer customers' questions much more quickly and easily than before. Of course, the first things we loaded into the system were the entire HBD archive, the ASCII Cat's Meow, the publist, and tons of other net.brew_stuff, and we update it monthly. Mighty informative! Mighty useful! have fun Richard Stueven Technical Support Manager Wind River Systems, Inc. 510-814-2166 Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 93 14:24 CST From: korz at iepubj.att.com Subject: Re: diacetyl? Lee writes: >I have recently begun brewing all grain batches, 5 or 6. A constant >comment about my beers is that they contain noticable levels of >diacetyl. >I discussed my brewing process with an experienced all grain brewer >who too was having this problem with his beers. We decide that since >the yeast strains we were using 1056 and 1098 are not noted for high >levels of diacetyl in their flavor profile that the following could >be flaws in our brewing process: >2) Adding finings immediatley after racking to the secondary. We did >this to induce CO2 generation to purge the head space. This would cause >the yeast to prematurely fall out of suspension thus reducing the >quantity and the time in which the yeast was reducing diacetyl. BINGO. That's your problem, IMO. I feel that you don't have to add the finings to generate CO2 production -- by the time you are transfering to the secondary you already have some C02 dissolved in the beer. When the beer travels over the top of the siphon hose (just past the highest point) it is at slightly a lower pressure and some of the CO2 will come out of solution, taking up your head space. Another method, is to use your kegging setup to squirt a bit of CO2 into the secondary before racking. It's heavier than air and will minimize oxidation *during* transfer too. >What can I do to produce high levels of diacetyl and minimize its reduction >if I want to brew something with a Samuel Smith profile? Is a warm >ferment with a yeast strain noted for diacetyl production and fining >immediatley after primary fermentation the way to go ? I think so. Al. Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1075, 02/11/93