HOMEBREW Digest #1086 Fri 26 February 1993

Digest #1085 Digest #1087

		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator

  Ph meters, Hydrometers ("Daniel F McConnell")
  Printing labels on a laser printer ("Spencer W. Thomas")
  The Unfermentables ("I'm a jelly doughnut.  I'm a jelly doughnut")
  pH Meter Temperature Compensation (Timothy J. Dalton)
  Chill haze help, copper (Ulick Stafford)
  Hops in Ohio (WESTEMEIER)
  Decoction Mash Questions (Chris Cook)
  Anchor Foam ("Rad Equipment")
  Celis White...Answer and Question (aderr)
  SG temperature correction ("Stephen Hansen")
  Answers about bottle labels (Andy Rowan)
  Cat's Meow Evaluation (Justin Broughton)
  Dorky Topics (Jack Schmidling)
  pH (Phil Hultin)
  Re: fermenter geometry (Quasimodo The Hunchback)
  Proposed North Bay Bike Ride & Pub Crawl (Quasimodo The Hunchback)
  Yeast Starter Temperature (SynCAccT)
  HB Competition (thomas ciccateri)
  Fix times two (Jack Schmidling)
  Re: galvanized screen & Zinc (cush)
  Mashout (Jack Schmidling)
  Mashout (Jack Schmidling)
  Red Star (Jack Schmidling)
  gelatin fining (Kelly Jones)
  Attemperation/Repitch (Joe Rolfe)
  Sugared Extracts (kstiles)
  Labels:  Affixing & Removing (James Thompson)
  re: idophor, rinse/reuse  (R.) Cavasin" <cav at bnr.ca>
  Wyeast reuse/stretching  (R.) Cavasin" <cav at bnr.ca>
  Brewing on Line (Carlo Fusco)
  Homebrewers 'round the world (Jack St.Clair at fmccm6)

Send articles for __publication_only__ to homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com (Articles are published in the order they are received.) Send UNSUBSCRIBE and all other requests, ie, address change, etc., to homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com, BUT PLEASE NOTE that if you subscribed via the BITNET listserver (BEER-L at UA1VM.UA.EDU), then you MUST unsubscribe the same way! If your account is being deleted, please be courteous and unsubscribe first. Archives are available via anonymous ftp from sierra.stanford.edu. (Those without ftp access may retrieve files via mail from listserv at sierra.stanford.edu. Send HELP as the body of a message to that address to receive listserver instructions.) Please don't send me requests for back issues - you will be silently ignored. For "Cat's Meow" information, send mail to lutzen at novell.physics.umr.edu IMPORTANT NEWS -- PLEASE READ ----------------------------- There will be nobody reading mail sent to homebrew-request during the period Feb 8 through approx. Feb 28. This means that any requests for changes or cancellations will not be handled until the end of the month. Subscription requests will continue to be handled automatically, and the digest will continue to be sent automatically, barring any computing device catastrophes. So if you send a message here and get no immediate reply, or if the digest stops suddenly, please do not panic. Just be patient. ps. and please try to behave yourselves while I'm gone ;-)
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 24 Feb 1993 09:08:30 -0500 From: "Daniel F McConnell" <Daniel.F.McConnell at med.umich.edu> Subject: Ph meters, Hydrometers Subject: Time:9:02 AM OFFICE MEMO Ph meters, Hydrometers Date:2/24/93 >;on the subj of pH meters - i recently got one from HANNA (shucks found out >;it is made in italy :0). anyway does anyone have one of these? do you >;notice a fluctuation between hot and cold temps of the same sample? i am not >;sure if mine is defective or what, pH varies by .5 (even after letting it sit >;in the non-ambient temp sample for 1-2 mins)....the probe was calibrated with >;the 7 and 4 solutions minutes before....and soaked in a conditioning solution >;for 30 mins as recomended.... does any one have the temp diffs for pH? >pH, much like specific gravity, is dependent on temperature. I would think >there would be a temperature correction table that came with your meter. The Hanna does not come with a calibration table, however you can get a accurate reading by measuring the wort pH at the SAME temperature as the electrode was calibrated. You must calibrate fairly often (at least each day), so if you calibrate at 60F and cool wort to 60F you should be ok. Even if you are off by 0.5 unit you are still far more accurate than pH papers INMH(color blind)O. I love mine. The operational definition of pH is: pH=pH(s)+E/k. Where pH(s) is the pH of a known standard, E is the emf of the cell, k=2.302RT/F where R is the gas constant, **T is temperature** and F is the value of the Faraday. As you can see, since temperature is a variable, the measure of pH is definitely temperature dependant. From Handbook of Chem/Phys. [end of chemistry digression] On the hydrometer topic, I recently discovered (when brewing with a friend who uses his religiously) that mine is horribly and uselessly inaccurate, so I have gone back to not using the thing. The old OG estimates of STRONG, NORMAL and WEAK always worked for me before, but occasionally I'd like to check my efficiency. Thermometers can be very different from one to another and so can hydrometers. Short of purchasing a refractometer are there any mail order shops that sell a reasonably priced ($15-20 ...??) CALIBRATED hydrometer? Thanks, DanMcC *As long as Keith (Richards) is still alive, I can have another beer. * Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 93 09:24:43 EST From: "Spencer W. Thomas" <Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu> Subject: Printing labels on a laser printer Jeff J. Miller writes: > I located some 3/4" round labels that are designed for use on > a laser printer; unfortunatly they seemed EXTREMELY expensive > at $15 a box but I don't recall how many labels were in a box. Well, let's see. If they're packed tightly on the page, you've got maybe 150 on a page. If the box has 50 pages, then there would be 7500 of them in the box. So they're .2 cents each. Not really expensive, except up front. Even if there were only 10 pages, they'd still be 1c each. That's less than you pay for bottle caps. =S Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1993 09:50:23 -0500 (EST) From: "I'm a jelly doughnut. I'm a jelly doughnut" <cygnus at unh.edu> Subject: The Unfermentables Hi, I was wondering what grains have significant amounts of unfermentables etc.... i.e. Barley (malted) Wheat (malted) Rice syrup solids and more... I like my beers to have a heavy malty taste.. just like when you put loads of 'malted milk' in your milkshake... I beleive that is a barley malt. Question remains what type of unfermentables are we talking about here? right now I have a coffee beer brewing, and I want that earthy malty flavour... so I figured I'd post out of curiosity to see what the HBD could come up with for all to know :) thanks, -chris (dcm2 at kepler.unh.edu) Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 93 10:13:21 -0500 From: Timothy J. Dalton <dalton at mtl.mit.edu> Subject: pH Meter Temperature Compensation To answer some ongoing problems with pH meters and temperature dependence: pH measurements ARE temperature dependent. Some pH meters come with built in temperature compensation (a separate temp. probe is used in this case) and some pH meters allow for manual compensation. With pH meters, we use the Nernst Equation E = Ex + 2.3*R*Tk/n*F * log(ai) Plugging in all the constants, we get E = Ex - 1.98*Tk*pH Ex is a constantant depending on your reference electrode and E is the potential measured by the pH electrode. As you can see, a change in Tk (Temperature, in Kelvin) Will change the slope of your E/pH curve. Important notes, pH will always read 7.0 at 0 mV output (Temp. compensation is not important near pH 7) At pH 3 or 11, a temp difference of 15C leads to a pH difference of 0.2 pH error can be approximated as 0.03 pH error/pH unit/10C Reference: pH and Conductivity, Omega, Vol 26, pp. A-3 to A-5 OHBN (Obligatory HomeBrew Note) : The Irish Red Ale for St. Patty's day is almost ready. - ---- Timothy J. Dalton tjdalton at mit.edu MIT, Dept. of Chemical Engineering, Materials Etching Technology Lab Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 93 10:02:21 EST From: Ulick Stafford <ulick at bernini.helios.nd.edu> Subject: Chill haze help, copper When I chill my lagers I get a chill haze, and with this at the back of my mind I read George Fix's Brewing Science book and he wrote of phenol-protein interactions that cause chill haze. There seemed to be 3 solutions 1) remove proteins with Irish moss or gelatin, 2) remove the tannins with polyclar, or 3) lager for 5-7 week at 0C. I would love to use the latter method, but until I get a chest freezer it is impractical. Other things that help are sparging less, and boiling for the right time. My question is how do people use polyclar? I don't really want to, but it seems like a better option than gelatin or Irish moss that may remove head proteins. Should I add it to the beer when I rack to lager and lager with it there, or would it be sufficient to add it when I chill the wort, let that sit at 0C till fairly clear and then rack onto the yeast. Is this last idea ridiculous? Re. Copper about which Mark Elliot asks. The reason are mainly traditional. Copper is a metal that has been known forever nearly. At beer making pH's it doesn't corrode, and the main advantage is that it has the second highest heat transfer coefficient of all metals. This was more important when fire brewing was the only heating method. Since this method is still used by us homebrewers, I would like nothing better than a big copper jam pot. But I have not seen any for sale. ______________________________________________________________________________ 'Heineken!?! ... F#$% that s at &* ... | Ulick Stafford, Dept of Chem. Eng. Pabst Blue Ribbon!' | Notre Dame IN 46556 | ulick at bach.helios.nd.edu P.S. I am sorry that many of you were offended by my continuation of the 'dead horse' thread and I apologise for not restiricting criticism to email. But I am not the only one commiting that sin and I think it is also time for those of you who dispair of this theme to stop posting your sanctimonius criticisms about how hbd is going to hell in a handbasket because of the odd accrimonius post. I am sure I am not alone in thinking that such piety is more nauseating than the occasaional flame. Also, I think there was a criticism of rec.crafts.\ brewing. It is my experience that r.c.b is usually more civil than hbd. I think that hbd snobs are more common than *6&-#$% at * snobs. Return to table of contents
Date: 23 Feb 1993 19:44:13 -0500 (EST) From: WESTEMEIER at delphi.com Subject: Hops in Ohio Garland Burton asks if you can grow decent hops in Ohio. Answer: YES! You can definitely grow decent hops in Ohio. I've been growing them for a couple of years in Cincinnati, and I have a friend in Dayton who has been growing them for over 5 years. Very successfully, I might add! Cascades do best in this area, but try Hallertauer as well (Hersbrucker). Order the rhizomes from a good source like Freshops in Oregon, and plant them as soon as the danger of frost is over. You won't have any way of knowing exactly what the alpha acid percentage is, but you can guess, based on the average for the variety. You can also do what I do, which is ignore the issue and just use them for dry hopping. Works great! Lots of sun seems to be the most critical factor. - -- Ed Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 93 11:04:55 -0500 From: cook at uars.DNET.NASA.GOV (Chris Cook) Subject: Decoction Mash Questions In HBD 1083, while talking about starch conversion during infusion mashing, Drew asked (about drawing off some of the mash for reheating): > 3) The method used above to reheat the mash seems similar to decoction > mashing. With regards to decoction mashing: > a) is it usual to drain and boil just liquid, or liquid and grain? > b) doesn't this process denature the enzymes needed for conversion? > c) is there some formula for how much of the liquid or liquid and > grain to reboil to make a desired temperature change? Good questions. Like Drew, I'm looking to use some simple use of a decoction in infusion mashing, either to raise the temperature of the infusion, for a rudimentary step mash or for a mash-out. Plus, I'd like to try full decoction mashing, just to see for myself. A few weeks ago I asked what Noonan meant in his reference to removing "...the thickest third..." of the mash. There were several answers posted, but they reinforced my impression that people were interpreting Noonan's directions in different ways. One person said that the thickest part was at the bottom of the mash-tun after letting the grains settle. Another said that 'thickest part' description was misleading, referring to a decoction consisting mostly of grains. He recommended that the mash be gently stirred before scooping off the decoction. Logically, I can believe that the mash will settle into heavier and lighter layers, but we're talking about pretty uniformly-sized grains. Is it important to scoop from the bottom, or is it more that we should avoid using the top layer. Do the husks migrate to the surface or some such? How much liquid should be drawn off with the decoction? I got three general answers in the Digest: 1) With a small pot, scoop up a bunch of grain and pour off the liquid until the grains are barely covered, something like a stew. 2) With a small pot, scoop a bunch of grain against the side wall of the mash-tun and slide the pot up the wall, letting most of the liquid drain back. It wasn't clear how much liquid should remain in the pot, but the writer implied that only a little liquid should be in the decoction. 3) Scoop the decoction with a sieve or colander. I assume this leaves almost no liquid in the decoction. Barley stir-fry? Several people emphasized the problems with grain sticking in the pot while heating the decoction. I don't know whether the drier decoctions were significantly worse, but it seems they should be. Book references and logic are only good to a point. Anybody have experience using a decoction to heat up a cool infusion mash, for a simple step mash, or for a mash-out? How large are the decoctions, how much liquid should be left in the decoction, and how bad is the sticking? Chris Cook February 24, 1993 cook at uars.dnet.nasa.gov Return to table of contents
Date: 24 Feb 93 08:34:36 U From: "Rad Equipment" <rad_equipment at rad-mac1.ucsf.EDU> Subject: Anchor Foam Subject: Anchor Foam Time:8:32 AM Date:2/24/93 Bob Jones asks about the flat fermenters at Anchor and foam activity. Now that you ask, I can't say that I have ever noticed those vats without a head on them except when they are being filled. RW... Russ Wigglesworth (INTERNET: Rad_Equipment at radmac1.ucsf.edu - CI$: 72300,61) UCSF Dept. of Radiology, San Francisco, CA (415) 476-3668 / 474-8126 Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 93 11:40:03 -0500 From: aderr at BBN.COM Subject: Celis White...Answer and Question As to where to find Celis White in the Boston area, I guess that depends on how broadly you define the "Boston area". Harrington Liquors, in Chelmsford, MA carries three Celis beers (White, Grand Cru, and one other (Bock?)). They also carry a wide selection of lambics, hard ciders, and beers from all over. Now for a question: I tried Celis White over this past weekend and I LOVED it!! Does anyone out there have a recipe (yet) that approximates it? Any tips would be greatly appreciated. BTW, I'm "only" an extract brewer so far. (Sorry, I couldn't resist). Thanks, Alan Derr (aderr at bbn.com) Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 93 09:38:33 -0800 From: "Stephen Hansen" <hansen at gloworm.Stanford.EDU> Subject: SG temperature correction There have been several articles lately that either requesting information on the variation of specific gravity with temperature or in obvious need of such information. The Homebrew Archive at Sierra.Stanford.EDU has a file containing correction factors for specific gravity vs. temperature. The file is sg_vs_temp and anonymous ftp users will find it in the pub/homebrew/docs directory. Those of you using the listserv should use the command "get homebrew sg_vs_temp". Stephen Hansen homebrewer, archivist - --=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-- Stephen E. Hansen - hansen at sierra.Stanford.EDU | "The church is near, Electrical Engineering Computer Facility | but the road is icy. Applied Electronics Laboratory, Room 218 | The bar is far away, Stanford University, Stanford, CA 94305-4055 | but I will walk carefully." Phone: +1-415-723-1058 Fax: +1-415-725-7298 | -- Russian Proverb - --=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-- Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 93 13:49:33 EST From: rowan at soil.rutgers.edu (Andy Rowan) Subject: Answers about bottle labels I got lots of mail in response to my question about making bottle labels on a laser printer, so I thought I'd summarize them for others. I guess longer-time readers of HBD or r.c.b. will have seen these already... Lots of people suggested printing on regular paper and then sticking it to the bottle by wetting it with milk (yes, milk). All said it sticks perfectly well as long as the bottle stays dry, and comes off easily with a soak. As far as glues, I got the following suggestions: 1 part white glue (like Elmers) to 2 parts water. Water soak to remove. Glue sticks for kids, which are soluble in water. Dennison "Tack a Note" glue stick, with sticking power of a post-it note. Rubber cement. Remove label (and cement) by peeling it off. As far as self-adhesive (mailing) labels, most are VERY difficult to remove, but Don Howard wrote that Z-LABEL brand laser printer labels come off easily after a short soak, and cost about 2 cents each. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 93 11:46:39 PST From: jwsb at netcom.com (Justin Broughton) Subject: Cat's Meow Evaluation The Cat's Meow (for those who don't know) is a compilation of recipes posted on the Internet and in HBD. It is available via anonymous ftp from sierra.stanford.edu in /pub/homebrew/recipes. I have already posted this to the internet, but realized that I forgot to post to home brew digest. So please excuse the duplicate posting. Looking through the Cat's Meow recipe book, there seems to be no indication of whether the recipe has been tried by others and found to be reasonable and/or whether it gives the same results. I have been talking with Mark Stevens (one of the compilers of the recipe book) and we agreed that a survey of this kind would be most useful. Therefore I am asking you all to reply to me (jwsb at netcom.com) with details as follows: . chapter containing recipe (beer style) . name of recipe . number of times brewed . changes to any ingredients (if any) . changes to the procedure (if any) . SG/OG . overall quality of the beer . if problems were experienced what you think the reasons for the problems were . would you brew it again? . if you would what would you change. Please send only recipes which you did not significantly change. To the originators of the recipe - if you have repeated the recipe since feel free to send me your comments as well. Results will be forthcoming. I will probably not post them since this might cause ruffled feathers, but will mail to anyone requesting them. Thank you in advance for all your time. Justin Broughton Configurex Inc., South San Francisco, California - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - -- Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 93 15:03 CST From: arf at ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling) Subject: Dorky Topics >From: orgasm!davevi at uunet.UU.NET (David Van Iderstine) >Subject: Re: All-grain vs. extract >Excuse me for noting, but this all-grain vs. extract thread has gotten completely dorky and out of control. Can we get on with other things? I find it an interesting perversion of the objectives of a discussion forum to consider a topic "dorky" because it generates a lot of interest. I think the objective is to discuss what is of most interest to most people and those who are not interested in such a topic are free to skip it. Complaining about what is discussed may or may not be "dorky" but is certainly a more obvious misuse of bandwidth. js Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1993 17:23 EST From: Phil Hultin <HULTINP at QUCDN.QUEENSU.CA> Subject: pH Just a quick point. It is perfectly normal for pH to vary with temperature. Thus, your pH meter should give a different reading for hot and cold solutions. Good laboratory pH meters have a temperature adjustment, and the really nice ones automatically compensate for temperature. If you want to you can find how to correct pH meter readings for the temp. effect, but it is probably easier to just adjust your sample to the right temp. before making the reading. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 93 18:30:57 -0800 From: pascal at netcom.com (Quasimodo The Hunchback) Subject: Re: fermenter geometry "Date: Mon, 22 Feb 93 07:49:20 PST From: "Bob Jones" <bjones at novax.llnl.gov> Subject: Fermenter geometry "During my discussion with Pierre Celis, the subject of fermenter geometry came up. He mentioned that the head or foam cap in a shallow open fermenter was much more dense and stable than one in a closed smaller fermenter. He said he don't understand it either. I know when I visit Anchor and see their fermentations at high krausen I am only getting a snap shot of the fermentation. Say Russ, when you've walked by that room several nites in a row, have you EVER seen that foam fall? I don't know how any of this would apply to us, it is just an interesting observation and may explain how open fermentation can be safe in some cases." My intuition is that there is a connection between the fermentation and the surface-to-volume ratio. In the book _On Aggression_ ( author's name escapes me, alas ) it discusses the difficulty of maintaining enough oxygen in the aquariums ( this was before World War II, no pumps, little electricity ) and notes that, even with the inclusion of a large portion of the closed ecology of proximate ponds into the tanks, including moving creatures which stirred up the water ... a very large surface-to-volume ratio was a prerequisite. ( The author was researching the aggressive instincts of cichlids ... ) Others have noted that readings for mash efficiency, as well as temperature, vary from top to bottom in mash geometries which emphasize height. This is optimal for conservation of heat, but not so for circulation of mash solution, such that this too bears some additional examination. Summary : I'd guess there is a lot of garnered experience which has guided some isolated brewers down this path, and that this bears further examination in both the mash and the fermentation sequences. I haven't done a mash yet myself ( ObDisc: I have used grains as adjuncts ), but when I do, I expect I'll stir things to keep a temperature gradient from forming and to evenly expose everything to walls and atmosphere. I don't do open fermentation and, lacking a controlled environment, I'd hesitate to, as this would also provide a larger target for drifting spores and bacteria ... - -- richard "It is obligatory, within the limits of capability, to commend the good and forbid evil." _Kitab_Adab_al-Muridin_, by Suhrawardi richard childers pascal at netcom.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 93 19:18:00 -0800 From: pascal at netcom.com (Quasimodo The Hunchback) Subject: Proposed North Bay Bike Ride & Pub Crawl I just purchased a lovely new mountain bicycle, and have been riding all over San Francisco, having a blast. It didn't take me long to conceive of other possibilities ... such as taking the ferry boat to Angel Island, in the middle of San Francisco Bay ... or beyond, to Larkspur or San Rafael. I mentioned this to a few bicycle-riding beer buddies, and they told me of a brewery that's apparently just a stone's throw from the San Rafael ferry landing. This is apparently a well-known ride amongst many locals. I don't know its name but I'm sure many others do. (-: So, I'm proposing a Bay Area HBD Ride, from San Francisco - probably the south end of the Golden Gate Bridge - across the Bridge, through Sausa- -lito, along the edge of the Bay, northwards to San Rafael, using exist- -ing bike trails already established, stopping at pre-established points for those wishing to join en route. Once at the brewery, we dissemble for excellent ( I've been told ) food and beer, departing as convenient to ride back to our vehicles along the route, if appropriate, or taking the ferry back to San Francisco, and then riding back from whence we came within San Francisco. ( Those doubting that this might be possible might prefer to park along the Embarcadero and ride their bikes to the Golden Gate Bridge in the morning, so that their cars are only a few blocks away when they get off the ferry. ) Naturally, some people might prefer to remain together all the way back to the Toronado ... or we could even meet there in the first place, instead of the Bridge. Naturally, mountain bikes ( 18 speed or above ) are recommended, as this is not a short ride ( although every effort has been made to plan it so that it is not necessary to ride uphill and that the majority of the trip will be downhill or level bayshore ), but I leave the final decision to the dis- -cretion of the individuals, and promise to assist anyone who has problems en route, as the person responsible for this proposal. I think this would be a _great_ opportunity to match names with faces, and get a few of the lurkers to emerge into the light and let us introduce our- -selves and sweep them into the mileau. As well as establish that one can be physically competent while drinking copiously, and still brewing. Proposed date : Sunday, 07 March 1993. What say ye ? Email me at pascal at netcom.com, please. - -- richard "It is obligatory, within the limits of capability, to commend the good and forbid evil." _Kitab_Adab_al-Muridin_, by Suhrawardi richard childers pascal at netcom.com Return to table of contents
Date: 25 Feb 93 03:36:48 GMT From: SynCAccT at slims.attmail.com Subject: Yeast Starter Temperature I have 3 Lagers fermenting now, 2 at 42 degrees F and 1 at 48F. All of these are fermenting (what I would consider) rather slowly. All 3 batches started at 1.052 and after a month in the Primary are between 1.032 and 1.040. Fermentation does not appear stuck as they all have a good krausen still and are generating a fair ammount of co2 (1 bubble every 10-15 seconds). I'm using 2035, 2308 and 2007, 2 cultured from my slants and one straight out of the Wyeast pack. My question is: these yeasts were built up to pitching volume (about 2/3 quart of slurry) in 2 steps, the first in 1/2 pint of wort and then into 1.5 quarts, over 5 days. The starters were fermented on top of the fridge and with the heat from the back of the fridge I would guess it was about 80-85F. The starters were chilled to match the wort at pitching time and all started to ferment actively within 15 hours. Is there a correlation between yeast performance and starter fermentation temperature with S.uvarum? I'm concerned that I've promoted mutated cell growth, generating an active starter that performs well only at warmer temperatures. Gravity has slowly declined over the last month, the beer tastes fine so I suspect patience will be the solution to my problem. Any other comments or suggestions?..... ...Glenn Anderson gande at slims.attmail.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 93 23:51:35 MST From: thomas ciccateri <tciccate at carina.unm.edu> Subject: HB Competition The Albuquerque, New Mexico USA-based Dukes Of Ale are again sponsoring their annual AHA Sanctioned Beer Competition. Deadline is April 16, 1993. Fee is $2.00 per entry. Judges are club-certified, AHA certified, recognized, or masters. Info: Art Priebe at 73707.2262 at compuserve.com Buena Suerte. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1993 08:22:56 -0600 (CST) From: arf at ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling) Subject: Fix times two Figured out how to beat the system. I posted 7 articles yesterday and all got acknowledged except the two that were 40 lines long. The longest one acknowledged was 33 lines. Here is the "long" one in two parts... >From: trl at photos.wustl.edu (Tom Leith MIR/ERL 362-6965) >Subject: George Fix's Address > I'm trying to send mail to George Fix, and his address as it shows-up in the digest is not sufficiently complete to accomplish this (gjfix at utamat)..... Sure glad someone else is having this problem. Virtually all my mail bounces to George but it seems to get through often enough to prove that it is a good address. The last two letters I have sent about 10 times and specifically asked him to acknowledge receipt. It is particularly frustrating because it contains an apology to his wife which I hereby extend to anyone else who may have been offended by my use of an old boy's term referring to things that happen to men in the night. This is the way the bounce appears in my mail and I get the response within seconds so it is not happening at his location..... cont.......... Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 93 9:06:54 CST From: cush at msc.edu Subject: Re: galvanized screen & Zinc I would caution against giving an unqualified 'yes' to using galvanized screen in the mash. I seem to recall that Zinc can be highly toxic in too high a concentration, though it is a 'vitamin' at lower concentrations. If I am remembering wrongly, someone please correct me, but I do believe that as far as Zinc goes, there can be 'too much of a good thing'. - -- > Cush Hamlen | cush at msc.edu > Minnesota Supercomputer Center, Inc. | 612/626-0263 Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 93 09:10 CST From: arf at ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling) Subject: Mashout >From: "Rad Equipment" <rad_equipment at rad-mac1.ucsf.EDU> >Subject: Another Mash-out Idea >I realize that the liquid level is greatly increased so it is harder for the enzymes to find the starch, but still... This aint necessarily so. I use about 3.5 gal of mash water to 12 lbs of grain and when it settles down after mashing, I end up with one inch of liquid above the grain. This level is maintained through the entire sparge so the ratio of grain to liquid does not change till I turn off the sparge water source at the end. >Reactions? Burrp Hmmmm.... Just occurred to me that the last two lines are another good example of a typical CIS beer forum message that one would have to pay to read. js Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1993 09:07:27 -0600 (CST) From: arf at ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling) Subject: Mashout >From: "Rad Equipment" <rad_equipment at rad-mac1.ucsf.EDU> >Subject: Another Mash-out Idea >A thought: If unconverted starch, originating from dry sections of malt, might be released during the sparge; would it not be prudent to forgo the mash-out so that the enzymes, which are also in suspension (I assume), can do their bit on the newly released starch? Two problems here... As most people claim to be sparging at 170F, the enzymes would be deactivated by the heat. Of course some of us realize that the real temp in the grain is closer to mash temp so you are probably right. Therefore, what you are effectively doing is increasing the mash time without increasing the time it takes to mash. Not a bad idea, probably. The real problem with forgoing the mash out is that the real temp in the grain bed drops even lower and could create all sorts of other problems. cont............ Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 93 09:11 CST From: arf at ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling) Subject: Red Star >From: korz at iepubj.att.com >On a related note, I have written in the past warning about the use of the yeast that comes with Munton & Fison Kits (it use to be called Muntona, but now I think it just says "yeast"). I said that it gave very, very high levels of phenolic/clove aromas and flavors and that I suggested it not be used. This sounds dangerously reminiscent of my experiences with Red Star and all its repackaged clones. When I thought I was trying different yeasts, I later learned that it was all repackaged Red Star. Do you know who makes the yeast? I personally, would never use a yeast that did not identify the actual lab that makes it. I suspect that 90% of the love affair (mine included) with liquid yeast results not from switching to liquid but from getting away from Red Star and its stealth progeny. js Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 93 08:10:26 -0700 From: Kelly Jones <k-jones at ee.utah.edu> Subject: gelatin fining "Dean Roy" <DEAN at alpha.uwindsor.ca> writes: >Can someone tell me if there is any difference between the gelatin finings >sold in homebrew stores and the plain unflavored gelatin you can buy at the >supermarket. I have a supply of the supermarket variety and was considering >using some on my latest batch. I don't generally fine my beer, but as a home winemaker, I do fine my wine, and yes, plain unflavored gelatin works great. The procedure for wine is to soften about 1 tsp gelatin (per 5gal wine) in some warm wine, and stir into the carboy. Takes 7-10 days to settle out. Kelly Jones <k-jones at ee.utah.edu> Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 93 11:40:23 EST From: Joe Rolfe <jdr at wang.com> Subject: Attemperation/Repitch hi all, Nick asks > with all this talk about the perfect fermenter > design I was wondering if somebody could comment at > what point does the heat buildup become high enough > to affect the ferment? Also are the Wyeast preferred > temps for the ferment or ambient? So does a > 40-50litre ferment create enough heat to alter an > ale ferment? How about lagers? well Nick, I would guess that you would like to keep the primary ferment temp as close to the recommended temps as possible (65F for ales, 55F for lager). I would say that depending on the flavour profile you want anything more than +/- 10F is too much. Smaller batches, from my limited playing with them don't seem to change very much from ambient +/- 5F in the middle of the vessel. I would venture that the 10 or so gallon batches could produce enough heat to require attemperation. I dont have a 10 gallon fermenter, but my 2BBL fermenter will generate quite alot. If I pitch at 70F, ambient temp being in the low 60'sF, the next morning at the peak of fermentation - temps will be approaching 80F. This only happened once - thankfully. I now cool the fermetner down to 62F after I see signs of fermentation - this usually takes a few hours. As an aside here - I would like to use a sankey keg for a fermenter. I have heard of George Fix using a pony (1/4BBL) which I assume has no internal/external plate or coil. Anyone using any 1/2BBL ekgs with attemperation devices, other that sticking in a drum of water??? SRIRACHA <radavfs at ube.ub.umd.edu> asks: >My brewing partner and I recently started using liquid yeast and >are quite pleased with the results - the cost, however, is making >us wonder about whether or not we should buy a new packet every time >when a strain could be reused...I guess our question is this: How >have the experiences of other digesters been regarding saving the >sludge? Do you seal it up with some malt extract? Do you put it >into a container that would allow stoppering/airlocking? Just curious... >we saw a couple of possible containers the other day, but I thought I'd >beter write first...How about "Grolsch-type" bottles? You can store it in a sanitized (or as close to sterilized as you can get) vessel (jug, - i use a pop keg). If you are not going to repitch within a day or so (guessing here -- anyone know how long?), put the vessel in a refrig (40F). It should last a week or so (again how long??). I would repitch within a week or dump it myself. Grolsch bottles should work fine for smaller (5-10 gallons ferments). When you do take it out of the refrig (as Mike Sharp recomends warming the slurry up well in advance). I assume that when Mike does this it is done fairly slowly not to shock the beasts into mutation. My process is to remove from the refrig 2 days in advance, on the first day store it at 10F higher than refrig temp. The second day store at a 10F higher that the previous. As I cool the wort some of the wort is diverted to the keg with the slurry. I allow this to sit at temps as close to pitching for an hour or so. The fermenter is then areated for 45 min with sterile air. At the half way point in areation the slurry is pitched. Since doing it this way (past 4 times) the fermentation is underway in 2 hrs (no lag here) and the final gravity is reached within 3 days (usally 2). >From the general reading in HBD and other pubs - if your clean you can bet on repitch of 5-6 times. If your really clean and do the lab work - you should be able to repitch forever(???). I will be stopping at 5 times - until I can afford the time do it, a scope, chemies and the lab space. good luck and stay clean! - -- joe rolfe jdr at wang.com 508-967-5760 Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 93 11:47:32 EST From: kstiles at aluxpo.att.com Subject: Sugared Extracts A subject thread about the quality of malt extracts led Richard Stueven to re-post Martin Lodahl's article about the report from Professor Ingledew's of the University of Saskatchewan about sugar in malt extracts. Since Prof. Ingledew seems so afraid of lawsuits, let me point out that I am not asserting in the following that any company, foreign or domestic, is adulterating its malt extract with sugar. I merely note these observations; draw your own conclusions. I recently bought some American Eagle light dry malt extract. It seems peculiar in a number of ways: 1) It is not a uniform powder like other DME that I've bought (M&F, Laaglander). Rather, it is a mixture of a light brown powder and white crystals. 2) It doesn't clump into hard blobs like other DME when mixed with water. It just dissolves more like, say, sugar. 3) It doesn't have a strong malt taste like other DME. It tastes more like slightly malty very sweet wall paper paste. 4) When used in a yeast starter, the starter tastes, well, cidery. Keep in mind Prof. Ingledew's point that any adulteration can be done by a distributor as well as the supplier. We all know about the high FG's from using Laaglander, presumably from a high dextrin content. Any experiences with American Eagle (the DME, not the canned extract)? Kevin Stiles Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1993 08:52:31 -0800 (PST) From: James Thompson <sirjames at u.washington.edu> Subject: Labels: Affixing & Removing Since I make my own paper labels, I affix them with regular gluestick; they stay on fine, and come right off in hot water -- this hot tip brought to you from my homebrewer tutor, Mark Antush... Hi, Mark! :-) For removing labels from used commercial beer bottles, I recently purchased a brush-scraper combination designed for cleaning bbq grills. After soaking the bottles in hot water, the scraper makes short work of removing the paper, and the brush takes off the glue. Although it is a metal-bristle brush, I haven't noticed any problem with scratched bottles. Jim Thompson sirjames at carson.u.washington.edu Disclaimer: "These opinions are only our own, aren't they my Precious?" Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1993 12:25:00 +0000 From: "Rick (R.) Cavasin" <cav at bnr.ca> Subject: re: idophor, rinse/reuse JS relates further experiments with iodophor sanitizer: Hmmmm. How much headspace in each testtube? (headspace vs solution ratio could be fairly high in a testtube) Did you open either tube (thus releasing iodine vapour in headspace) during the test? Both stoppers sealed tightly? Possible leak? Ideally, the test should be carried out with several tubes in each group, and outliers discarded. I've used my solution several times since my previous posting (without augmenting the iodophor) and though the amber colour may have faded a little (hard to remember what the original shade was - could mix up more I guess), it is still definitely amber. I guess there's no real way to know the sanitizing power vs colour relationship. Ya pays yer money and ya takes yer chances. Check the label on your iodophor - mine says the iodine is supplied in the form of a complex. This might make it less volatile. Cheers, Rick C. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1993 12:25:00 +0000 From: "Rick (R.) Cavasin" <cav at bnr.ca> Subject: Wyeast reuse/stretching There's been some renewed interest in making the most of Wyeast packages lately. Although I think I've posted this before, it sounds like there's at least a few people who might find a repost useful. Here's the method for stretching the Wyeast that I have been using successfully. It should be noted that storing the the yeast in the form of sediment may be suboptimal (someone else posted a simple yeast washing technique some time ago - haven't tried it). All I can say is that this method has worked for me with 4 different Wyeast ale strains (Whitbread, Irish, German, European). It's simple, and requires no special equipment. Alternatively, it allows several brewers to swap yeasts with each brewer propagating one strain. ****************************************************************** Briefly, my suggestion consists of converting the original Wyeast package into a number of 'copies' stored in beer bottles. ie. it is a parallel propagation rather than a serial propagation Step 1: Prepare some starter wort (S.G. = 1.020), see Miller's book for recipe. Basically, you need about 1/2 gallon, but if you make more and can it in mason jars (using standard canning procedures), you will not have to prepare more at a later date. Step 2: Place 1/2 gallon or so of starter wort in a suitable container (1 gallon glass jug), pitch (inflated) Wyeast package at correct temp. and fit air lock. This is the 'master' starter. Step 3: Allow to ferment to completion. When fermentation has ceased, agitate the 'beer' to suspend all sendiment, and very carefully bottle it. You will now have about 6 bottles of very thin beer with a good deal of viable yeast sediment in each bottle. Use each bottle as you would use a package of Wyeast - ie. prepare a starter culture a couple days before brewing. This is facilitated by canning wort when you prepare the master starter. All you need to in that case is pop open a mason jar of wort, dump it into a sanitized bottle/jug of appropriate size, pop open one of your bottle cultures, add it, agitate vigorously, and fit an air lock. All yeast starters are of the same 'generation', ie. 'twice removed' from the original Wyeast package (as opposed to the usual 'once removed'). This helps avoid the accumulated contamination over multiple generations that may occur with serial propagation. I've had the bottled cultures remain viable for more than 6 months (so far). Observe proper sanitation and wort aeration procedures thoughout. Equipment: 1 gallon jug (for 'master' starter) 1.5 litre wine bottle (for subsequent starters) air lock 6 beer bottles, caps and capper Optional equipment: mason jars and canning pot. ***************************************************************** Later, Rick C. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1993 13:45 EST From: Carlo Fusco <G1400023 at NICKEL.LAURENTIAN.CA> Subject: Brewing on Line Hello brewers, I want to tell you that with the newest interest in putting yeast into anything fermentable, I have updated the 'Brewing on Line' list to 'Brewing on Line vers. 2' It is a text file of about 8k. It is available from sierra.stanford.edu via anonymous ftp. It is in the pub/homebrew/docs directory, and is titled brewing_on_line.v2 For those using the listserver, you can get it by mailing a message to the listserver with the following comand "get homebrew brewing_on_ line.v2" Carlo.................g1400023 at nickel.laurentian.ca Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 93 10:35:03 PST From: Jack St.Clair at fmccm6 <Jack_St.Clair_at_fmccm6 at ccm.hf.intel.com> Subject: Homebrewers 'round the world Just a thought that I'd like to share. I've been reading the HBD for about a year and a half it got me started into homebrewing and has taught me many things. One of the interesting things about the digest is the diversity of the people who post and their locations. I have seen postings from England, Ireland, Scotland, Germany, New Zealand, Australia, South Africa just to name a few. Sometimes it is dificult to acertain where the posting is from even though the poster includes his/her full name and their computer mail address. My thought? Why not include City/Country in your post. It might prove very interesting and may start new friendships around the world. Just a thought. Jack (I brew for the taste of it) St.Clair JACK_ST.CLAIR_AT_FMCCM5 at CCM.HF.INTEL.COM Folsom City, California, USA ---(See how easy it is!) Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1086, 02/26/93