HOMEBREW Digest #1140 Thu 13 May 1993

Digest #1139 Digest #1141


	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  chang (asmith)
  beer in thailand (Kirk Anderson)
  Re: Sam Adams...... a Microbrewery (Drew Lawson)
  Bay Area Beer (PETTEWAY)
  Campden Tablets (fjdobner)
  Treacle (ulrich)
  Epic Brew Tour! (rizy)
  Re:  Sam Adams (Ron Natalie)
  Re: All grain instructions - how's this look?  ("Spencer W. Thomas")
  Malt Aroma - Chilling - Boiling (Lee=A.=Menegoni)
  some questions and a request (LORD OF THE DEEP)
  2 liter PET bottles (David Pike)
  Beer Bread (Mark Taratoot)
  Yeast (George J Fix)
  Pre-boiling Water ("Anderso_A")
  Step culturing of yeast (Hal Laurent)
  Anchor comments and clarifications (Mark Garetz)
  Is this Stainless Steel any good? (Kelly Jones)
  Removing labels?  (W.R.) Crick" <heybc at bnr.ca>
  Usage of hops in Anchor Steam (Martin Wilde)
  Hop Isomerization (Donovan Bodishbaugh)
  recipes (Gary Cote)
  Slow Learner (Jack Schmidling)

Send articles for __publication_only__ to homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com (Articles are published in the order they are received.) Send UNSUBSCRIBE and all other requests, ie, address change, etc., to homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com, BUT PLEASE NOTE that if you subscribed via the BITNET listserver (BEER-L at UA1VM.UA.EDU), then you MUST unsubscribe the same way! If your account is being deleted, please be courteous and unsubscribe first. Archives are available via anonymous ftp from sierra.stanford.edu. (Those without ftp access may retrieve files via mail from listserv at sierra.stanford.edu. Send HELP as the body of a message to that address to receive listserver instructions.) Please don't send me requests for back issues - you will be silently ignored. For "Cat's Meow" information, send mail to lutzen at novell.physics.umr.edu
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 11 May 93 17:10:06 EDT From: asmith <ST101163 at BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU> Subject: chang I spent last semster in Nepal, and for about a month I stayed monastery in solu khumbu, sort of on the way to Everest. The monks don't drink chang, but they d on't mind if their guests do. The folks who live in that part of Nepal are She rpas who are descendents of Tibetans, but I'm not sure what the exact history o f chang is. It was made out of corn, rice, millet or wheat. I saw them make rice chang, and they did this by cooking up a big pot of rice, letting it cool, mixing in special chang yeast (marga) which was in powder form. They let it g o there for about four days, then they transferred it to a big plastic jug for the secondary fermentation (I think I read somewhere that they used clay pots t raditionally). From what folks told me, they didn't use sugar unless they want ed a particularly potent batch, and they didn't add much in the way of water. It was served warm, and was sometimes pretty chunky. I've tried to make it her e, but the results haven't been so good. Maybe my standards have changed. The interesting drink to make would be thomba-- after millet is fermented it is pu t into a special thomba mug complete with filtering bamboo straw, and hot water is poured over it. It wasn't so alcoholic, but tasted great. The monk I live d with also made a type of apple wine, in which he followed more or less the sa me process as with chang with dried apples. He didn't consider it alcohol as s uch, but it had a bit of a kick to it. In retrospect, the surprising thing to me was the utter lack of care about oxidation and also how the plastic jugs did n't blow up. I imagine they had slight leaks, maybe. I don't know if this hel ps. about the recipe, I don't think they followed one, so if you want to recre ate the effect start with rice & champ. yeast. see ya, A. Smith ps: i would be i nterested in any more technical information folks have about using starches in beer & wine making. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 11 May 1993 17:26:27 -1100 From: Kirk_Anderson at wheatonma.edu (Kirk Anderson) Subject: beer in thailand I'll be in Thailand for June and most of July and would welcome any advice or suggestions in the 'enjoying world beers' department. Thanks in advance, and please don't post anything interesting in the digest while I'm gone. Kirk Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 11 May 93 16:15:34 PDT From: lawson at acuson.com (Drew Lawson) Subject: Re: Sam Adams...... a Microbrewery > From STROUD%GAIA at leia.polaroid.com () > Oh, BTW, the Sam Adams that is sold in Germany is supposed to be > contract-brewed IN Germany. I don't know the name of the brewery. Another ping against the ad campaigns. I guess that they imported the _name_. (Sort of like claiming that Big Macs are imported into France). Drew Lawson If you're not part of the solution, lawson at acuson.com you're part of the precipitate Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 11 May 1993 18:46 PST From: PETTEWAY at UCLAC1.Chem.UCLA.EDU Subject: Bay Area Beer Some time ago an absolutly fantastic guide to brewpubs in the San Francisco Bay Area was posted. It was unique in that it included detailed public transportation directions to each place. If anyone has this, could you please mail it to me. I'll be there in two weeks and have to start planning! Thanks alot Jason Petteway petteway at uclac1.chem.ucla.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 11 May 93 22:12 CDT From: fjdobner at ihlpb.att.com Subject: Campden Tablets I had a reputable homebrewer once tell me that should I be interested in adding fruit to the secondary, I would be advised to ensure that I take sanitary precautions against bacteria and wild yeast. Agreeing I asked what might be a logical means of doing that. One of the answers I received was to use Campden tablets to treat the fruit before addition to the fermenting beer. Questions are: 1. Is the above advisable? 2. If so, I have purchased Campden tablets from Crosby and Baker and would like to know how one might proceed. On the label it says "16 tablets per quart water = 1% solution." 3. Will there be any side affects (taste, aroma) that may result using the Campden tablets? E-mail directly or general post (if of wide enough interest) would be greatly appreciated. Regards, Frank Dobner Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 11 May 1993 21:16:42 -0800 From: ulrich at sfu.ca Subject: Treacle William A Kitch asks: > Do you have sources for demerara, treacle, or candi? Isn't treacle just the British name for molasses? Charles Ulrich Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 12 May 93 10:49:26 +0200 From: rizy at eel.sunet.se Subject: Epic Brew Tour! Dear Brewfolk, After working for two years in Sweden as molecular biologists, my girlfriend and I feel its time to further our search for the ultimate beer. We plan somehow to travel east-west thru the U.S. of A. for several months. We would love to attain some information on micro breweries and brew pubs to visit along the way. We would also be especially interested in corresponding with anyone knowledgeable on great places for white water kayaking, rock climbing and mountain biking. Please email me at the above address. Thanks in advance Rick Zydenbos and Sue Francis Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 12 May 93 09:48:47 -0400 From: Ron Natalie <ron at topaz.bds.com> Subject: Re: Sam Adams > contract brewed all over the country and at a place in Germany. The reason > they cited should sit will with all of you HBDers: freshness. No the real reason: cheapness. For a beer that's got a expiratoin date post dated five months in advance, I doubt the week to truck the stuff around the country is going to make much difference. A more correct reason is probably the same reason the Megabreweries as well as Coke has regional plants. They SAVE money by not trucking it. And frankly, most of it comes from Pittsburg which is no closer to Northern New Jersey than Boston is. Does any of the 5% they brew go into bottles anyway? Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 12 May 93 10:55:14 EDT From: "Spencer W. Thomas" <Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu> Subject: Re: All grain instructions - how's this look? Drew Lynch writes: > > >Preboil 10 gallons of "brewing water", put in carboys when cool. (night > > before brewing) > > You only need to do this for extract brewing. All the water you use > for all grain will end up being boiled in the brewkettle. Unless you're trying to precipitate carbonates, and/or get rid of chlorine. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 12 May 93 10:04:34 EDT From: Lee=A.=Menegoni at nectech.com Subject: Malt Aroma - Chilling - Boiling The recent discussion of mash thickness, temp and sugars production leads me to the following question. What component of the mash produces the "malty aroma" and "malty flavor" found in German Octoberfests . Is this a function of the type of malt. Since decotion mashers claim these features are enhanced in that process. What happens in a decoction that doesn't happen in an infusion that produces these characteristics. Chilling and Boiling: JS recently posted about a weak boil and no chiller brew with regards to hot and cold break. Isn't another reason for a strong rolling boil and a rapid chill the minimization of DimethylSulfide DMS production. The rolling boil drives off the DMS precursors and the rapid chill minimizes the time in the optimum production range? or is this another momily? Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 12 May 93 11:29:25 EDT From: LORD OF THE DEEP <S018%NMUMUS.bitnet at vmd.cso.uiuc.edu> Subject: some questions and a request Hullo! I am going to be moving to the Chapel Hill, North Carolina area at the end of the summer or a little before. My first question is, does any one know of the typical in the above area? brew pubs, homebrew supply shopsso on so forth. Anything about the area would be helpfull. Next up is a Dutch lagger style import extract that i just made, by following the directions for this extract i have created a very nasty tasting 18-20 proof beer I forgot to write down the name befor i came to the lab today so i cannot tell you the brand but if this sounds firmilliar to anyone please let me know how yours turned out. Thanks Ther Richardson S018 at nmumus.bitnet Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 12 May 93 8:54:16 PDT From: davep at cirrus.com (David Pike) Subject: 2 liter PET bottles We (a loose knit group of computer-type homebrewers) have been using the 1 and 2 liter PET (read COKE, Pepsi, and Talking Rain) bottles for almost two years now with no problems. if... 1. Use only plastic caps, not the metal ones. 2. Because most of them are clear, you need to keep them in the darkness during storage. Dave Return to table of contents
Date: 12 May 1993 10:58:42 -0600 (MDT) From: Mark Taratoot <SLNDW at CC.USU.EDU> Subject: Beer Bread Greetings. A couple of weeks ago I posted a method of making bread and pretzels from the yeast cake at the bottom of secondary fermenters. Well, I have something to add. Last week I made two beautiful loaves of bread from some dregs from a beer that I had dry-hopped. At first I was a bit apprehensive about doing this as I didn't know how the hop bits would affect the taste. I did it anyhow. The advice: DO NOT DO THIS!!! The resulting bread was too bitter to eat, even when smothered in honey. It may have made an ok garlic bread, but we were kind of put off. One interesting note: We left the loaves sitting around until the weather got nice enough (and we had the time) to go "feed the ducks." Well, it was over a week before we finally got out. The thing that surprised me was that the bread had no mold on it. Then I realized that this was because of the hops!! Now if I could find some hops that I could add to the bread that would not make it so bitter I could increase the shelf life from several days to more than a week (but the bread usually does not stay around that long.) -toot Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 12 May 93 11:40:13 -0500 From: gjfix at utamat.uta.edu (George J Fix) Subject: Yeast Seth Schneider of Crosby and Baker has informed me that I might have in a recent HBD post reversed the package sizes of the Whitbread yeast available today. To make sure there is no confusion, note the following: 12 gram pck. = Whitbread from old plant that is distributed by C+B 14 gram pck. = Whitbread that was produced at the Lallemand plant in Canada The strain I tested for C+B came from the lab at Whitbread's new facility. Tests on yeast from full production runs will be done in the near future. The tests on the Whitbread available today was not done as a part of my contract with C+B. I did these strictly for my own edification. The lactic counts on both were acceptable as was the viability of the C+B version. The viability test (using Rhodamine B as a stain) showed % viable cells as low as 17% in the Lallemand version, which is completely unacceptable. The recent work for C+B dealing with dry yeast has been quite an experience. It been 15 years since I last used this type of yeast. Two practical points have come up using dry yeast that I have not seen in homebrewing books. They are the following: 1. It is useful to refrigerate dry yeast during storage. They will not lose viability as fast as liquid yeast at room temperatures, nevertheless they will lose viability with age and this process is accelerated at temperatures above 60F. 2. Very rigorous sterilization is needed for everything used in the hydration process. I now do this with a pressure cooker, using 10 mins. at 15 psi. I screwed up a perfectly good beer by being casual about this in one batch. The finished beer had a measured diacetyl level of .175 mg/l, which is above the threshold of .1 mg/l. Subsequent brews have indicated the error was mine and it occurred during hydration. Al Richter in HBD#1139 asks about possible problems about Wyeast's London Ale strain (1028). Two micros in the Southwest had similar problems in the past. This was the major reason I avoided talking about this yeast at the microbrewer's conference in New Orleans. However, the Great Lakes Brewing Co. brought some of their Best Bitter to NO which was fermented with this yeast. It was IMHO one of the finest examples of this style I have ever tasted. The brewer kept apologizing that it was merely a "session beer", but what I was tasting was a very clean ale whose malt/hop balance was dead on. The finish was soft, but marvelously complex. I have the feeling we are going to be hearing a lot more from Cleveland (home of GLB Co.) in the future. I also tasted at the recent Beer Fest in Temecula, Calif. an outstanding Brown Ale brewed by Martin Lodahl using this yeast. Clearly the time has come to do a few brews myself with this yeast to see what is going on here. George Fix Return to table of contents
Date: 12 May 93 07:57:03 EST From: "Anderso_A" <Anderso_A%55W3.CCBRIDGE.SEAE.mrouter at seaa.navsea.navy.mil> Subject: Pre-boiling Water Message Creation Date was at 12-MAY-1993 12:51:00 Greetings, (I am writing this question on behalf of a friend whose address is too long to be accepted by the HBD computer.) In yesterday's HBD, Drew Lynch, writing in response to a request for feed-back for a first all grain beer, wrote: >> You only need to do this for extract brewing. All the >>water you use for all grain will end up being boiled in >>the brewkettle. This was written in response to the statement: >>> Preboil 10 gallons of "brewing water", put in carboys >>> when cool. (night before brewing) My question: I thought the reason for pre-boiling the water was so that the chlorine would be boiled away. The chlorine, being basic, could adversely affect the ph of the mash. Is this correct, or am I once again looped in the head? 2nd Item: Yesterday I asked what was the purpose behind Home Brew competitions. Well, today I was informed. A friend who was taking a brewery tour while the judging was going on stated that based upon the number of times the judges staggered into the restrooms, the only real purpose of these contests is for the judges to get free beer. (Oooh! I can already feel the flames!) Cheers Andy Anderson Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 12 May 93 14:12:10 EDT From: Hal Laurent <laurent at tamdno.ENET.dec.com> Subject: Step culturing of yeast I see a lot of references to "step-culturing" yeast to increase the population of yeast cells. Why is it desirable or necessary to do this in steps? Is it bad to give the yeast too much food at one time? I've been pitching my yeast into one quart of sterile wort for a starter, but it still seems to have a 1 1/2 to 2 day lag time before the primary fermenter's airlock starts to bubble. I've been considering using two quarts of starter instead of one to get a larger population. Is it better for me to feed the yeast one quart first and then step up to two quarts? Can I just pitch the WYeast package into two quarts to begin with? Do I ask too many questions? :-) -Hal Laurent Baltimore MD Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 12 May 1993 10:54:05 From: garetz at brahms.amd.com (Mark Garetz) Subject: Anchor comments and clarifications Frank Tutzauer writes about Anchor products: >evidence for the protein rest...is a picture of the temperature dial... etc. You are also making the assumption that they were making steam beer when the picture was taken. They could also have been making Liberty, Porter, Wheat, or any of their specialty ales. They all have different mash schedules and temperatures. Also, if it's the picture I'm thinking of and the temp dial is the one attached to the copper pipe where the water and grain are mixed as they flow into the tun, then this dial is measuring the temperature of the incoming water/grain mixture. The real "dial" (actually a digital readout) is on the programmed temperature controller, located in another room. >mash out is at 160F That's correct. >Athough most agree that Anchor uses only Northern Brewer hop in its steam beer, one occasionally sees other hops mentioned, for example, Hersbrucker or Galena I was in Anchor's hop room. Only two varieties were there: Northern Brewer and Cascade. The NB is for the steam and Cascade is for Liberty. I don't know what they use for the Porter or others. Nothern Brewer is added to the boil in three additions, and in about equal proportions. One at the beginning, one about half-way through and one near the end. I understand that Liberty is made with 100% Cascade (also in three boil additions plus dry hopping). >General discussion about which Anchor products are dry hopped... I was fortunate enough to interview Fritz for my article on Dry Hopping (due out shortly in the summer Zymurgy) so I think I can speak with some authority (is that a pun?) on the subject. Only three Anchor products are dry hopped: Liberty, Foghorn (barley wine) and the Christmas Ale. The rest are not. Anchor's dry hop rate for Liberty is "approximately" 2 ounces per five gallons and the hops are added in the conditioning tank and left for about two weeks. >General discussion about fermentation...fermenters are shallow copper pans.. The shallow fermenters are made of stainless steel. They are used for both the steam beer and the porter. I was told that fermentation temperature was 55F. The same yeast is used for the steam and porter. All other beers are fermented in deep, open top ale tanks with a "traditional" ale yeast, also at 55F. One other important note: Just as we know to adjust bitter hop rates based on the alpha acid ratings, Anchor also adjusts the late and dry hop additions according to the oil content. I'm proud to announce that my company (HopTech) will be rating all its aroma hops with oil content in addition to alpha acid. Hops will be available in mid-June. If you want to get our catalog when printed (currently in process), then send a postcard to: HopTech, POB 2172, Danville, CA, 94526 or you can call 1-800-DRY-HOPS and leave a message. You could also fax to (510) 736-7950. Don't expect to get anything till the first week of June. Mark Garetz HopTech Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 12 May 93 13:34:35 -0600 From: Kelly Jones <k-jones at ee.utah.edu> Subject: Is this Stainless Steel any good? I recently found an old industrial-size coffee brewer for sale for $50. It has a 14 gallon stainless steel pot, with lid, enclosed in a SS case. It includes a bunch of auxilliary gear; such as heater, temp controller, timer, valving, thermometer, etc. which I figure might be useful in my brewing endeavours, especially if I decide to build a RIMS. (Note that all of these parts are of questionable operating condition.) The problem is, this unit has been sitting outside in the rain for quite some time. The SS pot (the component I'm really after) has quite a few rust spots. This is not too surprising; I've seen other stainless items which rusted after exposure to severe conditions. The pot is a non-magnetic grade of stainless (and no, its not aluminum). My question is, is this pot worth the money? I've no doubt that I could remove the spots with a steel wool pad and some elbow grease, however, does the fact that it is spotted indicate that the SS steel may be an inferior grade, unsuitable for wort boiling? Are there types of SS which one would not want to use for brewing? What is the group wisdom on this? Any metallurgists out there who can comment on "rusted stainless"? Thanks, Kelly <k-jones at ee.utah.edu> Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 12 May 1993 15:58:00 +0000 From: "Bill (W.R.) Crick" <heybc at bnr.ca> Subject: Removing labels? Why would you want to remove the labels? I'm not sure. Most of my old stubbies still have the labels on them, although after 10 years, some are getting unreadable;-) Just a hint on how to label homebrew so you know what is what. Condense name down to a TLA (two, or three letters) Write this on to of cap with indelible magic marker. This takes about 2 seconds per bottle. It requires caps with no cutesy logos or anything on them. Some letter combos are real fast like Mohawk Mild -> MM which is just four connected squiggles. Bill Crick Brewius, Ergo Sum Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 12 May 93 20:28:39 GMT From: Martin Wilde <martin at gamma.intel.com> Subject: Usage of hops in Anchor Steam In Digest #1139, Frank Tutzauer <COMFRANK at ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu> writes: >BOILING AND HOPPING >Anchor boils for one and a half hours [3] with whole hops [5,6] added >throughout the boil [3]. They use "a significant amount" of Northern Brewer >hops [1], and bitter at a level of 33 IBUs [1], although others have claimed >the rate is 40 IBUs [4]. I am inclined to believe the lower figure since it >comes from Fritz himself. The quantity of hops used is approximately 1 pound >per barrel [6], which (if I am correct that a barrel is about 31 US gallons), >amounts to a shade over 2 and 1/2 ounces per 5-gallon batch. If you use this amount of hops, you will definitely get a hoppy beer. You have to remember hop utilization increases with batch size. Most brewers I have talked to when they brew a 15 gallon pilot batch and then scale up to 20-60 barrels will cut back on the hops by 10% to allow for the increased utilization. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 12 May 1993 16:43:39 -0400 (EDT) From: Donovan Bodishbaugh <dfb at acpub.duke.edu> Subject: Hop Isomerization In the May 7 HBD, Ed Westemeier wrote: " alpha acids in hops are... isomerized (which means the molecules are formed into long chains)." This was a good expose on light-struck beer. Isomerization, however, is not the formation of long chains of molecules. That's polymerization. Isomerization is the rearrangement of the structural configuration of a molecule, without changing the general molecular formula. The simple sugars fructose and glucose are isomers, both having the formula C6H12O6. The enzyme which interconverts these forms during cellular metabolism is called isomerase. I think hop alpha-acid isomerization refers to the conversion of the straght-chain form to the iso (branched) form. I think Miller's book has a good discussion of this. Anally Yours from the Wonderful World of Biochemistry, DFB Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 12 May 1993 23:13:31 From: Gary.Cote at leotech.MV.COM (Gary Cote) Subject: recipes Hi All I am looking for recipes about a few styles of beer mentioned in a book first printed in 1932. The name of the book is The Homemade Beer Book. The four styles are as follows. "Chica" A south american beer made fermented malt of indian corn. "Purl" A verity of amber beer formerly in demand in London but now obsolete. "Quarf" A Russin beer made from rye. "Twopenny" An amber beer containing licorice and capsicum, used as a stimulant in cold weather. Any help with these would be great!!! Thanks Gary Cote gcote at leotech.mv.com - -- gcote at leotech.mv.com * Origin: Leo Technology (603)432-2517/432-0922 (HST/V32) (1:132/189) Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 12 May 93 22:41 CDT From: arf at genesis.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling) Subject: Slow Learner >From: Jim Busch <busch at daacdev1.stx.com> < My C-P bottler is down for re-design so I bought a bunch of commercial stuff to take to a party... >And I thought you could just pull the tap and decarbonate the beer into a bottle! I admit to being a slow learner (must be struck by lightening 3 times) but when I get it, I not only admit my errors but usually become a crusader. > Wait a minute, didnt you follow the "how to build a CP filler" that I sent you :-) Don't recall but I bumbled around and made (and re-made) one that works like a champ. In all fairness, you can fill a bottle from a tap, if the beer is cold, the bottle is colder and retain good drinking carbonation but not enough to produce much of a head. >Utter nonsense! I live in the Washington DC area where the canned Guiness was test marketed, and I can attest to absolutely GREAT canned Guinness. There is nothing silly about a device that works, and works well..... I do believe it is the best canned beer I have ever had. We can simply agree to disagree on this one. I chose not to squander my daily beer ration by finishing the glass. < Take the coloring out of Beck's Dark and you have Beck's regular. It seems a bit more beerish but hardly in line with the color. >This is a bit harsh, no? There are dark malt notes in Becks, albeit not like a Munchner Dunkles. Perhaps a bit harsh but I humbly propose that "a bit more beerish but hardly in line with the color" translates nicely into, "There are dark malt notes in Becks, albeit not like a Munchner Dunkles". I think we said the same thing. < The good news (strike me dead) was Miller Reserve Pale Ale.... >Still gotta wonder about "all barley". Sure doesnt sound like "all malt" to me. I think one can make a case for the interpretation being NO RICE or CORN, i.e the only grain used being barley. One can claim to make an all barley/malt beer and still keep cost down by using sugar to get the gravity up enough to produce the proper amount of alcohol. The body and character of the all malt lager would suggest this approach. js Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1140, 05/13/93

[Back] Back up a level. Converted, by HBD2HTML written by K.F.L.