HOMEBREW Digest #1144 Wed 19 May 1993

Digest #1143 Digest #1145

		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator

  Hops differences? (JUKNALIS)
  Did you BEER Bread? (Mark S. Hart)
  Non-alcohol producing yeast (FSAC-FCD) <dward at PICA.ARMY.MIL>
  Cooling alternatives (gorman)
  Commercials (Jack Schmidling)
  NOTE 05/18/93 09:43:07 (WAUTS)
  RE:Stoudts Festival (Jim Busch)
  Half and Half (greenbay)
  Temperature for Whitbread Ale Yeast? (LYONS)
  BeBop and Brew ("Mark S. Nelson")
  supply shops (Kenneth Haney)
  Let's try this again... (drose)
  cranberry beer! (gkushmer)
  sankey kegs (again) (Eric Wade)
  Kegging (Kegging  18-May-1993 0942 -0400)
  Chapel Hill Brewpub (Chapel Hill  18-May-1993 0910 -0400)
  Molasses as primer (Brew  18-May-1993 0926 -0400)
  source for hop plants? (RICH CATENA DTN 321-5170)
  Bleach and stainless don't go together well. (Bleach and stainless  18-May-1993 0920 -0400)
  bad beer ("Anthony Johnston")
  Bad smelling primary fermentation (KRUSE_NEIL)
  sour mash, yeast propagation questions ("Knight,Jonathan G")
  Mail Order in Texas (Bill Othon.LinCom)
  Proper amount of spices? (Steve McCormic)
  Re: bisulfite solution, fruit beers (Jeff Benjamin)
  The other us... (Brad Asztalos)
  Raspberries in beer ("Tom Childers")
  Re: secondary/half-batch/lightstruck?/off-aroma/1st-batch/GoldenSyrup (korz)
  fruit in beer (korz)
  Bock and/or Ale ... ("Steve Kurka - BMC West, Boise, ID")
  cold plate (RBSWEENEY)
  Fruit/Cooler step mash (Rick Garvin)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 18 May 1993 08:21:28 -0400 (EDT) From: JUKNALIS at arserrc.gov Subject: Hops differences? Hello out there! Can anyone tell me if it is possible to tell the difference between different varieties of hops by their growth form , scents, or flower structures?? Thanks in advance. Joe Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 17 May 93 15:44:39 CDT From: Mark S. Hart <hart at hvhp1> Subject: Did you BEER Bread? Full-Name: Mark S. Hart Salutations all, I tried to e-mail my request directly to Mark Taratoot. but this *&*^&%$ system isnt cooperating. I'll try it this way and then settle for vend-o-matic pretzels. The original request follows: Hi Mark, I just read your post in HBD 1140 about not making bread when the beer had been dry hopped. Being new to HBD I missed your posting of how to make the beer bread and pretzels from the yeast cake at the bottom of the secondary fermenter. My request is: Would you please inform me as to how you are making these treats with this crud I usually throw away. I can't think of a better combonation than hot bread and fresh brew. By the way, how are you getting the yeast out of the carboy with out turning it into a gallon of soup. I am about to bottle my rocky raccoon's crystal honey lager and would love to give your receipe a try. Please e-mail me at "hart at hvhp1.mdc.com" Thanks for the info! Mark S. Hart Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 18 May 93 9:08:37 EDT From: "Darren L. Ward" (FSAC-FCD) <dward at PICA.ARMY.MIL> Subject: Non-alcohol producing yeast I have a good friend who has given up alcohol, but still drinks a lot of Non-alcoholic beer. He's very interested in my home brews, and would like me to brew a Non-alcoholic batch for him. Is there a source for yeast that can be used to do the same things except not produce the alcohol???? What is the sugar turned into if not alcohol??? I've checked the various mail order catalogs I have, no mention of any special N.A. yeasts. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 18 May 93 09:42:22 EDT From: gorman at aol.com Subject: Cooling alternatives I've got a 65F basement now. I fear it will get much warmer in July. I've read about alternative (to refrigeration) cooling techniques like air circulation towers, wet towel, etc. Anyone have any real experience with this they could pass along? Thanks in advance. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 18 May 93 09:30 CDT From: arf at genesis.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling) Subject: Commercials >From: Jim Kirk II >Subject: Beer Video I can't wait to read all the flames this one generates. Considering the fact that it is far more commercial than my video announcement several years ago one would expect Jim to be trashed till at least the turn of the Century. Hopefully, we and the Digest have all matured a little since then and will be a bit more accommodating this time. New product announcements are one of the most useful aspects of this forum and should not be discouraged. However, they (as all of mine have been, in spite of the thrashing I have received) should be announcements and not advertisements as this one clearly is. I suggest the following guidelines for NPA's: 1. Details limited to the name and function of the product. 2. Pricing and ordering information should NOT be included. 3. Readers should be directed to private mail for additional info. I think if we follow these guidelines on the Digest, NPA's will be looked forward to and well received. BTW, "Brew It At Home", a JSP video on home brewing basics is selling briskly. It has been particularly well received by the public library community. I regularly get calls from people all over the country who have checked it out on a whim and now, can't wait to get into homebrewing. I would be happy to send additional info on this video to anyone who emails for same. js Return to table of contents
Date: 18 May 1993 09:43:09 GMT From: WAUTS at CWEMAIL.ceco.com Subject: NOTE 05/18/93 09:43:07 Subject: Brewpubs/Micros in Indianapolis, IN - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hello all, I will be taking a short business trip to Indianapolis, IN in June. I seem to recall someone mentioning a new Brewpub/Micro down there but cannot find th information. If anyone knows of any Brewpub/Micros in Indianapolis please send the info via private email. Thanks in advance. Tom Stolfi wauts at cwemail.ceco.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 18 May 93 11:03:16 EDT From: Jim Busch <busch at daacdev1.stx.com> Subject: RE:Stoudts Festival In the last digest, Sean remarks about the fabulous Stoudts fest: <Stoudt Microbrewery Beer Festival <Two sittings: Friday June 12, 6PM-10PM or Saturday June 13, 2PM-6PM <At Stoudt's Black Angus Brewery Hall, Adamstown PA <(This is just off the Pennsylvania Turnpike) <$15/person <215 484 4385 The above sessions are SOLD OUT. A seating was added for Sat night. It too may be sold out, I do not know. I will be beer hunting in Europe until June 7 and I am returning to pour beers for the Baltimore Brewing Co at the festival. I will be at the first two sessions and if anyone in HBD land attends come by and say hi at the BBC table, it is always nice to meet digesters in person and I am quite sure some of my "Worlds Hoppiest Pale Ale" will be in attendance. Good brewing, Jim "Too hoppy for style" Busch. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 18 May 93 09:55:27 CDT From: greenbay at vnet.IBM.COM Subject: Half and Half I've seen a 'trick' where you have a liter of beer half being Harp and the other half being Guinness stout. The bottom of the liter is Harp, the top of the liter, Guinness stout. I was reading _The_New_World_Guide_To_Beer_ yesterday and saw a bottle of my stout and one of my light ales standing side by side and thought "Hey, I know what I should try!" Well, it didn't work for me, didn't matter which I poured in first, or how slow I poured. It all mixed together, black as night. Does anybody know how to do this correctly. Also, after reading all these happy hop reports, I've a sad one. My hops fell victim to Scott's Weed and Feed. They put up a good fight for five or six days, but on Sunday they just started withering away. The culprit has given themself the name "Hop Killer." Bob (funeral arrangements pending . . . ) Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 18 May 93 09:54 EST From: LYONS at adc1.adc.ray.com Subject: Temperature for Whitbread Ale Yeast? Question for those who have used Whitbread Dry Ale Yeast. My basement is currently at 60F with virtually no temperature varation during the day. Is this temperature to low for Whitbread ale yeast? Any comments would be appreciated. Thank you, Chris LYONS at ADC3.ADC.RAY.COM Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 18 May 1993 08:43:33 -0700 (PDT) From: "Mark S. Nelson" <mnelson at eis.calstate.edu> Subject: BeBop and Brew An annual event is taking place this Saturday in northern Humboldt County called BeBop and Brew. As the name implies, it is a day-long festival of jazz and beer! It will be featuring microbrewies from all over California and Oregon: over 26 different breweries will be represented! Oh yeah, there will also be some very tasty jazz being served up. It runs from noon to six at Redwood Park in Arcata, California. Tickets are $13 and a can of food. P.S. I went to this fest last year and it was great! - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Everything you know is wrong. Mark S. Nelson nelsonm at axe.humboldt.edu mnelson at eis.calstate.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 18 May 93 10:26:40 MDT From: haney at soul.ampex.com (Kenneth Haney) Subject: supply shops Hi all, I've noticed a few posts lately about starting a brewpub and or microbrewery. Does anyone have any ideas or experience starting a homebrew supply shop? Thanks Ken haney at ampex.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 18 May 93 12:44:47 EDT From: drose at husc.harvard.edu Subject: Let's try this again... Hello: I tried to post this yesterday but something happened. First: I have a question about bittering hops. My understanding has always been that with long boils (60' or more), the only character imparted to the wort is bitterness; volatile oils are boiled off, and so other flavors/aromas are lost. If this is the case, then why do I see recipes (e.g. some Winner's Circle recipes) that use combinations of hops for 60 minute boiling? If nothing survives but bitterness, why not just buy the bitterest hops you can get, use an appropriate amount, and save your Cascades for flavoring/finishing/dry hopping? Is there actually a subtle (but detectable) flavor/aroma contribution from hops boiled for 60 minutes? Second: There has been much discussion about alternative sugars, such as golden syrup, treacle, etc. I do a lot of Indian cooking and use an unrefined cane sugar called jaggery. It has a molasses-like flavor but is milder and, I think, more complex. It comes as a rather wet brick. Has anyone heard of its being used for brewing? Similarly, I brewed a cream ale this weekend and used 1# or Pakistani Basmati rice. Basmati has a very different flavor from conventional rice, so I thought it might be interesting, besides it was all I had. Anyone tried this one? Keep pushing back the frontiers.... d. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 18 May 93 12:44:10 EDT From: gkushmer at Jade.Tufts.EDU Subject: cranberry beer! I made a cranberry beer last year with just about that amount of cranberries (~4 lbs.) I took a recipie in the Cat's Meow II and pretty much followed that with the lesser amount of cranberries. In a nutshell, it's an extract with 5 lbs. Light Malt Extract 1 lb. Sugar (Don't worry about cidery flavors with this one) I don't remember the hops, and for this one I actually used dry yeast for my first time. The way I used the cranberries was this way: keep them frozen and then puree them in a blender. Make the wort as you normally would and at the very end, just before you'd add a wort chiller and immediately after you turn off the heat, dump the whole lot in. The frozen berries bring the temp right down, and you get it in the wort with some bouquet and flavor. Good luck and let me know if you try something different. I gave them away for X-mas presents and the demand couldn't have been higher for next year! - --gk Greg Kushmerek "They [Australians] don't spell 'beer' Sr. Researcher/Development with four X's out of ignorance. . .And Tufts University light beer is a creation of the Prince Medford, MA of Darkness." gkushmer at jade.tufts.edu -Morse, Thames Valley C.I.D.- Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 18 May 1993 10:25:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Wade <ericwade at CLASS.ORG> Subject: sankey kegs (again) Well just read my posting and realized that one of my questions was incomplete. What I really wanted to ask was about the use of sankey kegs as brew kettles, mash tuns etc. Are they aluminum, stainless, a combination, etc.? If they are coated, how thick is the stainless coating and how durable is this over time? Will it withstand repeated boiling and scrubbing? Thanks, Eric <ericwade at class.org> Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 18 May 93 06:48:00 PDT From: Kegging 18-May-1993 0942 -0400 <ferguson at zendia.enet.dec.com> Subject: Kegging Sorry for the barrage of postings here, I've been busy and I'm just catching up now. I just kegged for the first time - a weissbeir made from an extract recipe. No problems getting the brew in the keg, etc. However, yesturday I poured a brew and it came out w/ a head, but nothing too big. When I tasted the brew, it was kind of flat - that is, after it settled for about 2 mins, no more bubbles were floating to the head of the brew. So, I checked the pressure in the keg and it was around 5 PSI or so. Thinking that was the problem, I cranked it up to 15 PSI and poured another. Bigger head after the pour, but the same sort of flatish brew once it settled. So, I pumped the keg up to 20 PSI (w/ C02) and decided to let it sit (it is in my fridge; it has been in the keg 1 wk - I primed w/ 2/3c DME). What am I doing incorrectly? Or, is this just the way it works in a keg? regards, jc ferguson Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 18 May 93 06:13:38 PDT From: Chapel Hill 18-May-1993 0910 -0400 <ferguson at zendia.enet.dec.com> Subject: Chapel Hill Brewpub My brother lives in Chapel Hill NC. Nice place, but, you'll find quickly that the south has a big appetite for 'American' beers - bud, miller, etc. Some places will sell decent brews, but, they are not all that common, at least compared to Boston. They do have one Brew Pub - the name is escaping my mind at this time. It has sort of French-ish sounding name... It is near the biggest CD (compact disc) store in the Durham area - they boast 30k titles. I had to ask around (strangers on the street) and I did find it. They were closed, but we did get in to check things out (the doors were open). Sort of an evening place. Good luck, JC ferguson Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 18 May 93 06:30:40 PDT From: Brew 18-May-1993 0926 -0400 <ferguson at zendia.enet.dec.com> Subject: Molasses as primer >Date: 14 May 1993 11:33:13 -0600 (MDT) >From: Mark Taratoot <SLNDW at CC.USU.EDU> >Subject: Molassas help [...] >Anybody out there primed with molassas before? How much did you use? >How was the carbonation level? How long did bottle conditioning take? I have. Charlie Papazian's book makes a reference to using molasses as primer. Basically, you prime at the rate of about 1/2 of what you would use using DME (dried malt extract). Typically, for 5gal, I use about 1 1/3c of DME, so, for molasses, that would be 2/3c, dissolved in about 1 1/2c of H20. I actually screwed up when I did this and used _too_ much molasses. I ended up dealing with some over carbonation and I had to trash a few bottles of my stout. Give it 2 weeks to condition. regards, jc ferguson DEC Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 18 May 93 06:22:53 PDT From: RICH CATENA DTN 321-5170 <catena at arrcee.enet.dec.com> Subject: source for hop plants? Hi all, anyone have a good source for hop plants that might do well in central n.j.? thanks, rich catena digital equip. corp. princeton, nj Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 18 May 93 06:22:21 PDT From: Bleach and stainless 18-May-1993 0920 -0400 <ferguson at zendia.enet.dec.com> Subject: Bleach and stainless don't go together well. >Date: Thu, 13 May 93 09:06:25 CDT >From: hinz at memphis.med.ge.com (David Hinz) >Subject: Stainless Steel kettles & coffee pots & half-barrels [...] >I just made myself a 15 gallon, heated kettle, for about $20.00. I found a >half-barrel (grade 304 SS, I beleive) from the early 60's, with Miller [...] >The whole thing cleaned up very nicely, inside and out, with Soft Scrub <TM> >with bleach, and a washcloth. It will be pretty easy to add a spigot to the I'd caution everyone against using bleach to clean stainless steel vessels. I'm under the impression that bleach will pit stainless steel. JC Ferguson DEC Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 18 May 93 13:32:33 CDT From: "Anthony Johnston" <anthony at chemsun.chem.umn.edu> Subject: bad beer This is a followup to a posting I made several weeks ago regarding some peculiar looking bubble "colonies" that I noticed in my secondary fermenter with a particular batch of ale. It's been in the bottle several weeks now (I followed the advice of several of you out there who advised against its summary dispatch into the Mississipi) and can now say that... It's definitely awful and undrinkable. There is a flavor that I can only describe as "soapy" :( I do not know if this is merely coincidental to the appearance of the strange bubbles or not, but I am wondering if any of you out there have experienced such a taste and if it from an infection. The only other sources that I can blame would be a) soap residue from the primary, but I have always washed it in the same way ( a little bit of Joy and fastidiously rinsing it with hot water no less than 3 times) and have never had this taste before. Also the intensity of the flavor seems to me as if it would take at least a 1/4 fluid oz for the 5 gallon batch for it to be this bad. Another possibility (other than infection) is b) the use of a different malt extract, hopped Northwestern Golden, but I usually use NW malts and have always thought them to be of excellent quality. I really wonder about the possibility of infection..... Anthony Johnston Puzzled Homebrewer, Confused Chemist Return to table of contents
Date: 18 May 93 09:22:00 +1100 From: KRUSE_NEIL at Tandem.COM Subject: Bad smelling primary fermentation Hi, I've made about 8 extract batches, and each time the beer in the primary smelled, well, like beer. A nice sweet smell. However, my last batch, (which kept fermenting for 2 weeks) smelled terrible. kinda like a mens bathroom afer a keg party. Anyway, is this what you call "infected beer"? Would the smell/taste have changed after bottle conditioning? The beer was still cloudy in the carboy at two weeks. I ended up dumping the stuff down the drain. KRUSE_NEIL at tandem.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 18 May 93 15:12:54 cdt From: "Knight,Jonathan G" <KNIGHTJ at AC.GRIN.EDU> Subject: sour mash, yeast propagation questions Greetings, I'd like to hear from anyone with experience making sour mashes. I read Papazian's appendix on sour mashing yesterday, thinking I might try to make a Guinness-style stout that way. It seems to me, however, that I wouldn't want to use the whole batch of sour mash (Papazian says to boil up 5 or 6 lbs. of malt extract in 1-1/2 gallons) in a stout - I seem to remember that Guinness adds a *small* amount of sour mash to their otherwise "regular" wort. My question: what proportion of sour to "regular" is advisable in this case? And, if I were to brew up the whole sour mash as Papazian suggests, and just use some of it in a brew, how should I store the rest of it and how long will it keep? Another question: Charlie says to brew it up in a food-grade bucket with an aluminum foil seal inside its lid. If I have an extra plastic or glass fermenter sitting around, shouldn't I just use that and seal it with an airlock? On to yeast propagation: I am going to try the parallel-propagation method. After I make my gallon of master starter and split it up into six sealed beer bottles as has been described in previous HBD's, I recall that it will keep well under refrigeration for a considerable time. Is this right? If I do this now, can I count on healthy, hungry yeast in September when I resume brewing? Brew on, Jonathan Knight Grinnell, Iowa Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 18 May 93 16:03 CDT From: othon at ial7.jsc.nasa.gov (Bill Othon.LinCom) Subject: Mail Order in Texas I managed to lose the original and a reply from the person wanting info on mail ordering home brew supplies. here's the address for St. Patrick's in Austin. St. Patrick's of Texas Brewers Supply 12911 Staton Drive Austin, Tx 78727 (512) 832-9045 Lynne O'Connor - proprietress I've heard only good things, and they have an interesting catalog you should ask for. I am completely unassociated with their operation. Hope this helps. -Bill Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 18 May 93 17:04:08 EDT From: cimssm at consl670uc.utica.ge.com (Steve McCormic) Subject: Proper amount of spices? Hi all, Can anybody give me an idea as to how much cinnamon to add to a 5 gallon batch?? Any good guesses or tips from experience would be appreciated.. Also, any related tips that might be useful before I brew my first batch of "creative" beer would be appreciated. Thanks, Steve McCormick mccormick at vaxms2.dnet.ge.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 18 May 93 16:20:10 MDT From: Jeff Benjamin <benji at hpfcbug.fc.hp.com> Subject: Re: bisulfite solution, fruit beers A couple of folks had questions about making fruit beers. Here's the procedure I've used successfully in the past: 1. Brew a low gravity, lightly hopped beer as a base. I like to use a wheat beer for a base, OG about 1.040 with maybe 1 oz of mid-alpha hops. Goldings and Hallertau work well. Remember that the fruit will add a lot more sugar, so you'll end up with a stronger beer, and that a lot of bitterness will probably detract from the fruit flavor. 2. Let the beer run its primary ferment as normal (I usually go 5-7 days), then rack. Leave in the secondary for another 4-5 days before adding fruit. This allows time for the yeast to get established and for some alcohol to get produced, possibly preventing nasties from the fruit from infecting your beer. Allowing the base beer to ferment out also lessens the CO2 production, so the fruit aroma won't be scrubbed out as much by the fermentation. 3. Sanitize fruit however you wish, puree, and add to the secondary. I just use a sulfite rinse on the whole fruit and don't worry too much about it. Boiling is not recommended as it sets the pectins in the fruit. I don't have any experience with campden tablets. 4. When the renewed fermentation has completed (airlock glugs maybe once or twice a minute), rack off the fruit for a couple of days before bottling. This will allow the beer to clear, and for any residual sugars to get eaten up, preventing gushers. Prime and bottle as usual. Plan on using a lot of fruit. I typically use 1 or more pounds of fresh fruit per gallon of base beer to get a good flavor and aroma. You could economize by using pure fruit juice; I'd suggest trying about 1 qt per gallon of base beer. Expect the ferment to go bonkers when you add the fruit. The yeast tend to go nuts with the addition of all that new sugar. Keep an eye on your blowoff tube to make sure it doesn't clog. Now that it's spring, fruit will start arriving in stores before too long. Making a fruit beer isn't really that difficult, just a little more time consuming (and expensive, if you use store-bought raspberries :-( ). - -- Jeff Benjamin benji at hpfcla.fc.hp.com Hewlett Packard Co. Fort Collins, Colorado "Midnight shakes the memory as a madman shakes a dead geranium." - T.S. Eliot Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 18 May 93 15:50:20 PDT From: slag at physics.Berkeley.EDU (Brad Asztalos) Subject: The other us... Apropos Andrew Patrick's: "They copied the Germans in this just as they copy us in everything else." Do "we" know who the "us" is. But of course everything done in good America, by us good Americans is immediately our own. I had the finest Sake the other day... BA Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 18 May 93 15:51:47 PDT From: "Tom Childers" <TCHILDER at us.oracle.com> Subject: Raspberries in beer In HBD 1143, Brett Charbeneau asks about raspberry beers... I've been playing with raspberry wheat beers for a few months now, and am drinking my third batch. You don't need to go all-grain, but you do need to sanitize the fruit somehow. There are two main choices: - Add the fruit to the hot wort after the boil, when the temp has cooled to perhaps 170F, and keep the fruit/wort at 160-190F for at least 15 minutes to sanitize the fruit. If you let the temp get too high, or boil the fruit, then you will set the pectin in the fruit and get very hazy beer. This method works well for frozen fruit, which has generally been turned to mush by ice crystal formation. - Sanitize the whole fruit with a food-grade sanitizing solution (perhaps by soaking in Everclear or 100-proof cheap vodka?), then add the fruit to the secondary and strain out during the priming/bottling process. I use the first option, which has the advantage of being easy and pretty bullet-proof. The disadvantage is that you lose some of the aromatic qualities of the fruit by heating it. Here is my current wheat-raspberry recipe (many thanks to Kathy Henley of Austin, TX for getting me going in the right direction). Sorry, but I don't take specific gravity measurements. Wheat Berry 5-1/2 lbs light dried wheat malt extract 1-1/2 oz Hallertauer or Northern Brewer (boiling), 7 HBU 1/2 oz Hallertauer Hersbrucker (finishing), 2-3 HBU 24 to 36 oz frozen raspberries 16 oz frozen blackberries 1 tsp vanilla extract Belgian ale yeast (Wyeast 1214) Boil 2-1/2 gallons of water, add malt extract and boiling hops, and boil for 55-60 minutes. Turn off heat, add finishing hops, cool to 190 F and add the frozen fruit and vanilla. Let sit covered for 20 minutes, maintaining temperature at about 170 F and stirring occasionally. Cool to below 100F, add to carboy pre-filled with 2-1/2 gallons of water, straining out and pressing the fruit to extract most of the juice. Pitch the yeast, ferment at 70-72F, transfer to secondary after two days, then ferment completely out (about another 7 days). Prime with 3/4 cup corn sugar and bottle. 24 oz of raspberries gives a fairly subtle beer, with a mild tart raspberry underpinning that all of my friends loved. 36 oz of berries give a more assertive, but not overwhelming, raspberry flavor. Note that Belgian ale yeast will give stronger "clove" overtones when fermented at temperatures of 75-78F, and milder flavors at 70-72F. Tom Childers Mill Valley, CA Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 18 May 93 14:06 CDT From: korz at iepubj.att.com Subject: Re: secondary/half-batch/lightstruck?/off-aroma/1st-batch/GoldenSyrup Bill writes: >1) How long is too long in the secondary fermenter? I have >been reading that some people leave it for only a week, using >SG as a guide apparently. Recently I dry-hopped in the primary >(based on a Cat's Meow recipe) and after a week in the >secondary, there was at least an inch of "mung" at the bottom >of the carboy (I assume hops and yeastees). I decided to leave >the beer in for the usual 3-4 weeks. Could this have been bad? >I haven't tasted the final product yet to be sure, but i am >pleased with the clarity of my beer to date. I recommend dryhopping only for the last 7 days before bottling. Anything longer and you'll begin to lose more aromatics to the atmosphere than you are gaining from the hops into the beer. I've had beers spend 6 months in the secondary, but these were pseudo-lambiks, so not a good datapoint. I've had one beer (an Orval clone) spend two months in the secondary and it won a few awards. The Orval yeast is very slow-going -- the current batch has been in the primary for about a month and is still doing a bubble every 15 seconds. >2) Does anyone have a good half-batch all-grain recipe? I tried >an all-grain last year with two brewkettles over a gas stove, and >while it came out alright, it was a hassle. I'd like to get my >feet wet with some small scale stuff (which also allows for >easier experimentation if desired). For this type of batch, i >guess i use half the dried yeast package, or half the wyeast >starter. Just take a regular recipe and cut all but the yeast in half. You can pitch a half-gallon starter into a 5 gallon batch and still not overpitch. *************************** Darren writes: > Is discoloration (darkening) a typical result from "light >exposure"??? I brewed a batch which when originally bottled was >much lighter in color than it is now. The beer is in "Mason" jars, >with double gaskets/liners to better the seal. (It worked). I >had a problem with the initial conditioning of the beer, (very >little carbonation), but when I removed the jars from the fridge >for a couple of weeks and then re-refirdgerated them, the bubbles >were finally there (I'd brewed the batch 1.5 yrs ago, thought I >was a victim of novice errors, hate to throw things out, and only >recently read about re-conditioning carbonation-less beer to bring >the bubbles back.) Anyway, back to the color inquiry, would the >darkening be the result of light exposure, age, and is >incandescent light a threat??? I don't believe that light exposure will darken a beer, but oxidation will. I suspect that it was oxidation that caused the darkening. Incandescent light is much less of a threat than sunlight (because sunlight is considerably more intense) and less of a threat than fluorescent because there's a lot less violet-UV in incandescents). However, light-struck beer has a skunky smell, so use your nose to decide if it's had too much light. ***************************** David -- >Last week my brew partner and I made a batch of Winky Dink Marzen, as >described by Pappazian in TCJOHB (page 164 in the first edition). >Everything seemed to be going fine. It had a starting gravity of >1.043 and fermented happily away at room temperature, peaking at about >a burble every two seconds. > >At least everything was OK until last night when we racked to the >secondary for lagering. When we opened the fermenter, the beer >smelled funny. I might describe it as a skunky smell, but I've not >got a terribly keen nose for these things. I thought it tasted >alright, though my parner claimed he could "taste" the smell in his >mouth. Sounds like a wild yeast or bacteria got in there. >Another oddity was that the specific gravity had dropped to 1.004! >There is no sugar left in this stuff! Those yeast must have sure had >a good time in that brew! Reconfirms my previous assertion. >So that leaves me with a couple of questions. First, what could have >caused the smell? Will it go away over time, or are we going to be >stuck drinking this batch with our noses plugged? Second, what about >the lack of sugar? Is it worth lagering the beer if there's nothing >left for the yeasties to eat? Should we just go ahead and bottle it? It may go away with time -- I would go ahead an bottle -- worst case you've wasted 3 hours and 48 bottlecaps. ********************* Bill writes: >6lbs of light dry malt extract >1.5lbs of Wildflower honey >1oz Northern Brewer hops >4oz of fresh ginger >2.5 cups of 20l Crystal Malt > >Method: >Boiled 2 gals of water. Cooled and poured into 5gal carboy. > >Put 3 gals of water into pot, Added crystal malt and brought >to a boil. Boiled for five minutes (as per the local brewstore >instructions) then strained out the crystal malt. The brewstore is giving bad advice -- boiling the crystal malt (or any grain for that matter) will extract tannins from the husks. In addition to giving you astringent flavors in your beer (like chewing on a grape skin) but you may also have some chill haze (the beer will get cloudy when you chill it) which is the reaction of the tannins with proteins in your beer. >Brought the liquid to boil again, added the DME, stirring to >make sure it didn't stick, added the ginger and the hops. >Boiled for about 45minutes. Cooled to about 90dg farenheit. > >Poured this into the carboy via a funnel in order to add O2. > >Added 1oz of EDME dry yeast. Added a blow-off tube and placed >in bathroom('cause it is dark and cooler than anywhere in the >house). > >Got some bubbling in about an hour and through out the night >but no real foaming or high activity as I have heard others get >using EDME. By Wednesday, afternoon, no more bubbling. Went >back to the brew store and they suggested that I re-pitch. This >time I used Nottingham dry ale yeast. Pitched this Thursday >afternoon but no noticeable activity by Friday Morning. You didn't tell us the temperature at which you were fermenting. If the temperature was 75F, then there's a good chance that the Edme did indeed finish fermenting all the fermentables and the beer was done. If it was 65F, then I'd say it should not have taken such a short time. One thing that can make yeast prematurely stop fermenting is a sudden drop in temperature (say, 20 degrees). I believe that Edme is quite a bit more fermentable than Nottingham and the Edme would have used up all the oxygen, so I'm not surprised that the Nottingham did nothing -- there was no O2 or sugar left for it to eat. >So, my question is: "What happened?" and can I salvage this first >batch? If you have a hydrometer, check the gravity. If it's below about 1010, I'd say it's done -- bottle it. If it's above 1010 -- give it some more time. If you don't have a hydrometer, just let it sit for a week and see if it starts to ferment again. ************************ Peter writes: >In what I've seen so far there has been no mention made of Golden Syrup, a >type of sugar common in the UK, Australia and New Zealand. Has anyone tried >this in brewing? This was mentioned a few years ago, but not recently. Dave Line mentions Tate & Lyle's Golden Syrup in some of his recipes. Alas, neither the Golden Syrup nor the Treacle is being imported any more -- it appears that US customs wanted proof that Cuban sugar was not being used in the production of these two items and that no such proof was available or something like that. Al. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 18 May 93 14:59 CDT From: korz at iepubj.att.com Subject: fruit in beer Brett writes: > Having seen the recent queries on fruit additives to wort I would like >to pose a question of my own. I was exposed to a lambic framboise about a >month ago and have been experiencing pipe dreams of making my own ever since. >I am still an extract brewer, but I am interested in giving this style of >beer a go. > If anyone has had any experience with this sort of lambic or successes >getting lighter ales "take" the fruit I would love to hear about it. Does >one need to make the all-grain "jump" to be able to play on this level of >exotic beers? Not at all! All the beers that I've brewed in the last year have been extract + specialty grain (my new business has be too busy to set aside even 8 consecutive hours). If it's Lindeman's or Timmerman's Framboise that you tasted, you'll have trouble duplicating the intensity -- I suspect that they use syrups and pasteurize to keep them sweet. However, you can make some very tasty beers with fruit. You need a lot, though... read on. [By the way, with a name like Brett, Lambiks should be right up your alley... you see, one important contributor to the flavor of lambiks are the yeasts Brettanomyces Lambicus and Brettanomyces Bruxellensis, which we pseudoLambik brewers affectionately call, "Brett."] ***************** Chuck writes: >In today's HBD, Jeff Benjamin says he rinses fruit in "bisulfite solution" >before adding the puree to the secondary. I've made a few cherry beers, and >I've always wondered about a way to kill bacteria et al living on the fruit >before adding them to the wort/beer (without boiling). So, how/where/why/ >why not? I'd like to hear from others about this or other easily available >treatments for fruits. ***************** Jay writes: >In HBD #1142 Jeff Benjamin and Al Korz mention their experiences with >fruit beers. Would you guys briefly describe your process - i.e. when >you add the fruit (boil, primary, or secondary), whether or not you >use a sanitizing procedure such as campden tablets or (as Jeff mentions) >a bisulphite rinse, and how much fruit it takes to get a noticable >flavor. Also, I would be interested in knowing what kind of hopping >rates are good to use with these beers. The two best fruit beers I've made have been my 1992 pseudoKriek made with 13lbs of cherries and 3.5 gallons of homemade pseudo-lambik and my nuptual ale which was made with 10 gallons of 15 IBU light ale which was put on top of 15 pounds of cherries and 15 pounds of raspberries in the secondaries. To sanitize the fruits in both batches, I froze the fruit and then blanched it in boiling water for 1 to 2 minutes. The rasperries completely disintegrated, so I had to add the 1 gallon of water along with them in to the fermenter. The cherries held together. It's *VERY* important to use a large blowoff tube (I use a 1.25" plastic hose right in the neck of the carboy) and to only add the fruit when the primary fermentation is done -- otherwise the delicate aromatics will be scrubbed out by the CO2 being generated by the primary ferment. A lot of CO2 will still be created, but it's best to minimize the scrubbing action. By the way, the 13 lbs of cherries was very good but not great -- I think that about 16 or 18 pounds would have been better (and is what I'll use this year). Al. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 18 May 93 12:30:19 MDT From: "Steve Kurka - BMC West, Boise, ID" <kurka at bmcw.com> Subject: Bock and/or Ale ... Ale and/or Bock recipe request: Recently, I had the pleasure to enjoy a "Pacific Rim Ale" from Washington State (Kalama??). This beer tasted very close to my favorite beer from Wisconsin (Huber Bock) only with a slightly lighter texture. If anyone has a close recipe for the Bock or the Ale, Please E-mail them. (The only problem with the Ale was that it was 24$/case as opposed to 6$/case for the Bock - too bad Huber doesn't ship to Idaho) Thanks Steve - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ - Women love cats. Men say they love cats, - - but when women aren't looking, men kick cats. KURKA at BMCW.COM Boise, ID- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Return to table of contents
Date: 18 May 1993 22:22:37 -0600 (CST) From: RBSWEENEY at msuvx2.memst.edu Subject: cold plate Taking the advice of several HBDers, I bought a cold plate from Superior Products (of my own free will). The cold plate does an adequate job of chilling beer from room temp (~75 degrees) to about 55, which is about right for the ales (bitters and stouts mostly) that I've brewed up to now. The only problem is a tendency for the hose connections to leak, which is not too big a problem since everything is inside a small cooler. However, I would like to be able to leave all my connections hooked up, without having to disconnect between quaffing to slow down the wastage (sic). I currently using 3/8ths inch OD tubing to connect to both sides of the cold plate with hose clamps on both connections. Is there anything else I could use or be doing to stop these blasted leaks? Thanks for the help Bob Sweeney Memphis State University Department of Management Information Systems Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 18 May 93 16:40:43 EDT From: rgarvin at btg.com (Rick Garvin) Subject: Fruit/Cooler step mash Re: Raspberries in beer My experience with making extract beers with fruit has been good. I am an all-grain brewer who occasinally brews an extract beer with fruit. These have turned out to my liking and have consistently done well in contests. My experience suggests that the yeast culture has a marked effect on the product. On May 1 BURP, the Washington, DC homebrew club, sponsored the "Spirit of Free Beer" homebrew contest. I was the judge organizer for this contest with 189 entries. As a BOS judge along with Steve Hamburg of CBS, Randy Paul of BURP, and Bill Manger of NYC we selected a Peach Lambic as BOS. Now, I am prejudiced against strange beers for BOS. BOS should be judged on a beers stylistic merits: Which beer best epitomizes its style? Compared to commercial examples this Peach Lambic, made by George Griffith of Hay Market VA, was much better! This beer was made using 100% extract, 5.5 lbs peaches per 5 gallons, and the culture from a bottle of Cantillon Lambic. This beer was better than any of the Cantillon products I have had. So, fruit beers using extract? You bet! Re: bisulfite solution When making fruit beers I rinse the fruit lightly and put it into the secondary. I do not feel that it is really possible to sanitize/sterilize fruit without irreparably damaging the characters that you are looking for. I have had a few beers get a bit "Belgian" on me. But, that's ~fun. Re: Cooler mashing and step infusion. The problem with step mashing and coolers is that it is very hard (impossible?) to have the appropriate malt/water ratio and the appropriate temperature steps. What do I do? For ales I do a protein rest at 122F for 30 minutes with 1 qt H20/lb of malt. I then take 1/3 of the mash and bring it to 175F. I then add up to 1/3 qt boiling H20 /lb of malt to bring the temperature up to the chosen starch conversion temperature. For lagers I do a double decoction with a strike at 122F, and steps to 144F-155F and 168F. Cheers, Rick (rgarvin at btg.com) Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1144, 05/19/93