HOMEBREW Digest #1164 Thu 17 June 1993

Digest #1163 Digest #1165

		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator

  Phillmill (Jack Schmidling)
  Dogbolter (Kevin M. Madge)
  CDC sterilant (Paul Boor)
  Siphons (adoval)
  Opinions, Facts, and References ("William A Kitch")
  Re: All Grain Systems  (Drew Lynch)
  Dispensing with Foam ("Manning, Martin P")
  Basics/Twist-off Bottles/Bleach, Iodophor & Stainless (korz)
  Hangovers (Derrick Pohl)
  HELP FOR BEGINNERS (Patrick Caudill)
  brewing capitol of the world (STROUD)
  counter pressure fillers (jay marshall)
  Re: Dogbolter (CCASTELL)
  Hop Utilization (Mark Garetz)
  Re: Dogbolter (J. David Stepp)
  How Long On Fruit (fjdobner)
  French Oak (Thomas Feller)
  Rotten egg smell ("Rafael Busto" )
  Brewing Calculations (George J Fix)
  ppm -> IBU (Russ Gelinas)
  Subscription Problems // Japanese Beer Club (Markham R. Elliott)
  RE:filtering with cotton (Jim Busch)
  Liquid Yeasts (mgerard)
  Full wort boil (Steven Zabarnick)
  Homebrewing in Germany (norm)
  Re: Texas Micros & Brewpubs (Richard Stueven)
  Extract - Gravity Conversion (George J Fix)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 15 Jun 93 09:51 CDT From: arf at genesis.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling) Subject: Phillmill >From: "Manning, Martin P" <manning#m#_martin_p at mcst.ae.ge.com> >Subject: Phil's Mill Report >The early prototype version I used seemed to work well, i.e. gave a good crush, and Dan (Listermann) has tested this observation by sifting the grist through a set of brewery screens, and comparing the (weight) percentages left on each to published data for 6-roll mills. I won't argue that he may have improved on the Corona grind but I have his published "data" at hand and am a bit annoyed at his attempt to claim that it is far superior to the crush that is acheived by the MALTMILL (tm). His bar charts show that the MM and Corona are just about identical (bad) and the Phillmill and the large commercial mill are identical (good). Considering the source, I would suggest a less than unbiased evaluation was done here. His chart also shows that an improperly adjusted PM looks just like the Corona and the MM. This would lead one to the obivous conclusion that you can prove anything you want by diddling around with them. I have never seen a PM but, having only one roller working against a fixed plate, would seem to be only a nominal improvement over a rotating plate working against a fixed plate as in the Corona. I won't argue with his claims about it but I would be more inclined to believe what Geroge Fix said about the MM than what a competitor says about it, viz.... .......... I received Jack's mill in Jan., 1992. Shortly thereafter it was taken to the Dallas Brewing Co. (DBC) for the test. The latter was done with a standard and well established screen sieving procedure. This is described for example in DeClerck, Vol. 2, pages 321-323. It in effect consists weighing out the grain fractions that are retained on screen meshes of diminishing width. The following is what we measured: ASBC screen grains retained, % by wt. screen no. width, mm. MM DBC Mill ------------ ------------ ------ --------- 10 2.000 14 13 14 1.410 18 20 18 1.000 33 32 30 .590 25 25 60 .250 5 5 100 .149 3 2 Not Retained 2 3 ---- ---- 100 100 George Fix ................. For the record, Listerman's published data shows the MM retains about 45% on the 10 mesh screen and about 50% for the Corona and 10% for his. I would think that any grinding type mill (PM/Corona), as opposed to a true roller mill, could be adjusted so that zero is retained on #10 screen. I have no problem with healthy competition and it's nice to know that our hobby can support this kind of growth but telling fibs about someone else's products is not a good idea. js Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 93 11:24:23 EDT From: magdek at LONEXA.ADMIN.RL.AF.MIL (Kevin M. Madge) Subject: Dogbolter In digest #1162 Joseph Gareri asks for some info on the Dogbolter homebrew kit. I've brewed the kit using malt extract instead of corn sugar. It's definitely a strong ale. An excellent brew; I recommend it. A friend of mine (Franz Haas) has had the real stuff in England. His comments are: I tasted the homebrew version five years after my last long night at the Pheasant and Firkin (I believe it is on Goswell Ave, London) were I was a regular. The homebrew reactivated those long dormant nuerons - this WAS the beer of my favorite local pub!! True to form and taste. We used 3lbs of malt extract instead of the 2.5lb of sugar. Good luck. Franz and I have brewed with the package yeast. Kevin Magde magdek at lonex.rl.af.mil Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1993 10:24:46 -0600 From: Paul Boor <PBOOR at beach.utmb.edu> Subject: CDC sterilant Yo all you high intensity Microbiology types out there in academia/industry -- Here's a thread to tie one on with: The Center for Disease Control (CDC) in Atlanta recently reviewed its guidelines for sanitizing IV needles (reviewed in the Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report of two weeks ago). Several large urban areas have tried to get drug addicts to sterilize needles to decrease AIDS, despite the screams of the likes of Jesse Helms that fed funds should not be used for such projects... Anyway, CDC recommends 1/4 cup/gallon water for sterilizing surfaces, so I'm with the recent comment of R. Stueven: Why has the bleach concentration been plummeting? Who really knows, like percent kill of E. coli? I can't believe that 1 tsp in a keg will do it; that seems about like most urban water supplies. But more importantly, should we be using two different bleach concentrations for our needles and our Kegs? Are homebrewers out there secretly sharing kegs? How effective are condoms in preventing the spread of keg-associated STDs?? Think about it, but right now I gotta run out to the kitchen to make sure my refrigerator light is still on. pboor Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1993 08:28:05 -0800 From: adoval at stmarys-ca.edu Subject: Siphons Since the basic technique in siphoning is to get the tube filled with liquid (free of air) before it will flow freely, _first_ fill the tube with water, pinch one end, place the other end in the wort, lower the pinched end into a small container and release the water, which will draw out the wort behind it; pinch again when the water has passed through, and you're ready to bottle. adoval at stmarys-ca.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 93 11:19:09 CST From: "William A Kitch" <kitchwa at bongo.cc.utexas.edu> Subject: Opinions, Facts, and References In HBD #1162 Kelly Jones <k-jones at ee.utah.edu> write: [snip] >Perhaps it would be a good idea for posters to this forum to include >(1) Their relevant education, training, experience, etc., and/or >(2) References for their assertions. [snip] YES YES! I heartly concur especially with (2) above. Please post your references. A lot of *published* stuff on homebrewing is contratdictory it helps tremendously if folks cite the original sources. This way one can go read the original source and form one's own opion (which can then be posted on HBD). This in not to say that opinions an anectdotal evidence are not import. They are and should be posted but should also be clearly marked as such! Sante' WAK Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 93 09:40:49 -0700 From: Drew Lynch <drew at chronologic.com> Subject: Re: All Grain Systems Hi Brian, I've been doing all grain since about Christmas, and have recently gone through several of your questions myself. > + Boiling Kettle - what are the disadvantages of cutting up an old keg? > Is a false bottom neccessary? For a 15 gallon capacity (10 gallon > beer batch) what should I look for in material thickness and other > features. An old keg is the cheapest way to get 15 gallon capacity. The false bottom is not a requirement, but 10-15 gallons of wort or mash is *very* heavy, and you don't want to pick it up. Therefore, some kind of bottom outflow is nice, and will require some kind of filtering to prevent clogging. Also note that the barrel shaped kegs as opposed to the cylindrical Sankey kegs are harder to fabricate a false bottom for. If you want maximum capacity, and just cut off the very top of the keg, the hole resulting is smaller than the desired diameter of the false bottom. I am currently struggling with this problem. My first attempt at a false bottom failed miserably last Sunday. > + Propane burner - Is 35K BTU's big enough? How long to heat 12 gallons > of wort? It will work, but more is better, to a point. If you already own this burner, go ahead and use it, and only replace it if it is insufficient. There are basically two main types of burner: 1) multiflame and 2) single flame. Type 1 usually has the best adjustability and gas efficiency and the lowest total heat output. Type 2 can approach 200K btu, has very poor adjustability and poor gas efficiency at a low heat level. What I recommend is actually a hybrid of the two made by King Kooker (KK does make all three types). It has about 20 individual flames, is nicely adjustable, and puts out 145k btu max. This is what I have, it will bring 12 gallons to a boil in 15-20 minutes. Drew Return to table of contents
Date: 16 Jun 1993 02:13:18 -0600 From: "Manning, Martin P" <manning#m#_martin_p at mcst.ae.ge.com> Subject: Dispensing with Foam I sent this post last Friday, but it seems to have gotten lost. Excuse me if it appears twice. I have solved the problem of getting the right amount of foam when dispensing beer from soda kegs through a cobra tap in a unique way. As always, the trick is to get the pressure at the tap to down to just above ambient by matching the losses in the delivery line to within about 1 psi of the gauge pressure in the keg. You can size the line such that this happens, but what about resizing part of it by putting in a restriction? You can't place the restriction at the end (by regulating the flow at the tap), because the pressure drop is too abrupt. I have found, however, that you can place a restriction at the quick disconnect, to get part of the pressure drop, and let the line take care of the rest. My Cobra tap has the usual 1/4-in ID tubing, with a 1/4-in flare nut on the end, which attaches to a ball lock connector. I placed a short piece of 1/4-in ID copper tube between the cobra tap hose and the connector using a 1/4-in flare union and two flare nuts. I then squashed the tube (nearly) flat to create a restriction. The flattened section is about 5/8-in long, and the flow passage inside is only about 0.020 in or so. With the regulator set for the desired volumes of CO2, usually 10 to 15 psi for me, it works fine. In fact, I adjusted the restriction by trial and error to get it to work properly. One could try using an adjustable restrictor (needle valve?) to accommodate various tank pressures. Maybe one of the entrepreneurs out there could make a killing supplying such a thing to the mechanically disinclined. Martin Manning Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 93 13:29 CDT From: korz at iepubj.att.com Subject: Basics/Twist-off Bottles/Bleach, Iodophor & Stainless Sorry about some of this being a bit dated, but I've been very busy (and still am). Bart writes: >1) Is there an inexpensive source of malt extract in the USA ? Part of what Yes, $6.25/3.3# or $11/6# in single quanitities (email me for the source). >2) Is there a market for used small scale brewing and kegging equipment ? > looking for a used CO2 bottle, regulator, and hoses. Ultimately, > SOMEONE must want to get rid of their old equipment. Not really. Most of us are in this for the long haul. There are low-cost solutions. Kegs can be purchased used and reconditioned (don't forget the poppets!). CO2 tanks are CO2 tanks and can be purchased from yard sales, fire extinguisher places, etc. Hoses and regulators are best bought new from either a homebrew supplier or from a beverage supplier -- see your yellow pages. >3) I'd like to experiment with adding different sugars to my wort, > particularly brown sugar or molasses. Has anyone tried these ? > Any recommendations on quantities to try ? How about other > sugars and their effects ? Anyone tried dissolving a pack > after dinner mints into their wort ? Just kidding about > the last one !! You can stop grimacing now. Hey, whatever floats your boat. There's been beer made from roosters (yes, male chickens). Molasses is pretty strong flavored and thus only really appropriate in any quantity in a dark beer. I used 8 fl oz in my last Imperial Stout and I could have added twice that. For a ligher stout, I think that 4floz to 8floz is about right. Brown sugar is just white (cane) sugar with molasses added back. You can use 1/2# to 1# in Pale Ales for interesting flavors. In a recent IPA, I added 2# of Raw Sugar from C&H. It was too much -- there is an underlying cidery tone to the beer which I hope will go away. This is from the sucrose and not from the "rawness" or "molasses" in the sugar. I'm planning to try some experiments with Succanat(tm) as soon as I have the time. Given that there's a lot of sucrose in it, I would suspect that it's use should also be limited. >4) I realize that sterility is very important. All of the procedures > that I've read mention that during racking, a siphon should > be used to transfer the fermented wort. However, I have > yet to figure out how to start a siphon without getting my > mouth on the end of the hose. One procedure even specified > "suck on the open end of the hose until you get a mouthfull > of beer." Even though I brush twice a day, I still worry that > I might contaminate through this contact. Is there any way to > start a siphon without risking the contamination ? Or am I > just being too paranoid ? Will my batch be ruined ? And how > do you know that the light in the fridge goes out when you close > the door ? Don't worry about the fridge light, but do be concerned about sanitation. Poor sanitation is the only think (just about) that will make your beer undrinkable. Here's how I siphon: 1. Fill carboy or bucket with 5 gallons of water and 5 tablespoons of Household Bleach. 2. Hold the end of the siphon hose (which, by the way, was cleaned and rinsed thoroghly after the last use) up against the faucet and fill the hose with tapwater. 3. Shut off the plastic hose clamp (these is really make it easier and they only cost about $.25) or pinch off the hose to keep the water from running out. 4. Stick the in-end of the hose in the Bleach water and let the water running out of the hose start the siphon of the Bleach water. 5. Pinch off the hose and stick both ends in the Bleach water to sanitize the outside as well as the inside. 6. Let this sit for about 10 minutes. 7. Dump out the carboy or bucket into another bucket for later use if you need it. While you are doing this, you need to keep the hose in a sanitary place -- I either hang it from the ceiling by a string or hand it to an assistant if I've got one. 8. Rinse the carboy or bucket well (this is the vessel you will be siphoning into) and rinse the outside of the hose -- don't let the Bleach solution run out of it... keep it pinched off! Larger diameter hoses siphon faster, but don't hold water well... I use a 5/16" OG hose. Put a gallon or so of clean water in the vessel -- if your tapwater is not sanitary, final rinse in boiled water or industrial beer and use a gallon of that in the vessel instead of tapwater). 9. Dip the rinsed hose (or racking tube, which is what I use -- it's just easier to keep the end of it at the bottom of the vessel) into the vessel and use the Bleach water to start the siphon of water through the hose. Let it run for a minute or so, but don't let it run out! 10. Shut off the hoseclamp or pinch off the tube and move it to the beer you want to siphon. 11. Use the water or industrial beer to start the siphon of the real beer. Let the first cup or so go down the drain, cause it's mixed with what you had in the hose. 12. The above was sort of the "siphon from one carboy to another" instructions. After you're done siphoning into the bottling bucket on top of the priming solution, don't let all the beer run out of the hose! Stop it right before the end and then you can use this liquid to start the siphon for the bottling too. >OK, so now it must be obvious that I'm a neurotic miserly penny pinching >flake. What variety of beer would best fit my personality ? All of them. ************************** Alex writes: >I hope this question isn't too obvious. But I was wondering why most >literature on homebrewing that I have read says "DO NOT USE TWIST OFF >BOTTLES". >I have used twist offs for about 10 batches and have not had any problems. Twist off bottles are made for a different kind of capping machine than we use. In fact you can buy twist-off caps. The two reasons that I would recommend not using twist-off bottles are: 1. they are thinner glass at the top and are more likely to shatter during capping, and 2. the press-on cappers that we use are not the right kind for this type of bottle and there's a chance that the cap won't seat properly and there will be a leak (flat beer). ********************** There's been a lot of conflicting information posted regarding Bleach, Iodophor and Stainless Steel. I'm in the process of thoroughly researching the "bottom line" and will post (what I hope will be) the definative answer when I have collected all the data from experts in the appropriate fields. Stay tuned. Al. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1993 11:37:45 -0800 From: pohl at unixg.ubc.ca (Derrick Pohl) Subject: Hangovers In HBD #1162, cjh at diaspar.HQ.Ileaf.COM (Chip Hitchcock) writes: > Certainly dehydration plays a part in hangovers; if you've binged one of >the better protections is aspirin and lots of water \before/ you crash. But >I don't think it connects to lack of hangover in homebrews. Yeast may be >part of the effect, since B vitamins are commonly claimed to be effective >against hangovers; I don't know whether any sound research has been done on >this This inspires me. Having been an early contributor to the recent headache/industrial brew thread, no doubt a frequently arising topic of discussion, let me launch what is probably another recurring thread: hangover cures. Here's mine: it's common sense, and works wonders. In order of importance: 1) Water. Lots of it. As much as you can stomach before bed (at least a pint), put a pint beside the bed for when you wake up, and drink more (water, that is) after you wake up. 2) Sleep. As much as you can get away with. An extra hour or two will make a world of difference. 3) Acetominophen/Caffeine/Codeine (8 mg) compound tablets. These are available over the counter in Canada. You have to ask the pharmacist for them. Generic brands are way cheaper than the Tylenol version. Take 2 or 3 upon wakening. The acetominophen is easier on the stomach than aspirin, the codeine makes life much more pleasant (but can cause nausea in large amounts, so don't pop those Tylenol 3's you've been saving from your wisdom tooth operation - they have 30 mg codeine apiece), and as for the caffeine, see below. 4) Caffeine. Not only does caffeine have analgesic properties of its own, it also increases the analgesic power of acetominophen and aspirin by something like a factor of two. Put on the coffee pot immediately upon awakening. 5) Cannabis. Seriously. Really helps take the edge off things. An effective analgesic, anti-nauseant, and appetite stimulant (see below). 6) Food. Don't starve yourself, cuz low blood sugar will only make matters worse. Of course, there's always the hair-of-the-dog-that-bit-you school.... I haven't mentioned vitamin B, but I think it's pretty important too. I've found I get more of a headache from commercial natural brews that have had the yeast filtered out than I do from bottle-conditioned beer, be it commercial or homebrewed. Happy quaffin'! - ------ Derrick Pohl (pohl at unixg.ubc.ca) Vancouver, B.C. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 93 14:28:16 -0500 From: caudill at crss.com (Patrick Caudill) Subject: HELP FOR BEGINNERS My friend and I just got started with a kit (yes, real newbies here) and we were wondering about good stores in the Oklahoma/Texas/Arkansas/Kansas area that carry homebrew supplies. We'd appreciate any pointers that you experts could give. Also, suggestions for a good, simple beginners' book would also be appreciated. Please e-mail to the following addresses caudill at crss.com phcaudil at midway.ecn.uoknor.edu RYAN at rmg.pge.uoknor.edu Thanks! Return to table of contents
Date: 15 Jun 1993 15:49:43 -0500 (EST) From: STROUD%GAIA at leia.polaroid.com Subject: brewing capitol of the world Every so often I see proclamations in this forum or others that make statements such as "Portland is Beer Heaven" or (as in yesterday's HBD) "Colorado (the brewing capital of the world)". Please, let's not be so provincial. It is very easy in the current renaissance-in-brewing atmosphere in the US to get wrapped up in our own little corner of the world and think that we sit on top of the best beer. But the truth is that we're not even close. There is high quality brew in this country, but there is also a *lot* more mediocre beer being made, whether you're talking the East Coast, the West Coast, or somewhere in between. Beer Heaven (and the Brewing Capitol of the World) in undoubtedly located in Europe. I'd nominate Belgium for Heaven, Bavaria for the Capitol, with the British Isles and the rest of Germany as close also-rans. The USA is hardly in the race. If you've been to Europe, you know what I mean. If you haven't been there, what are you waiting for? Steve Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 93 15:14:06 CDT From: jay marshall <marshall at pat.mdc.com> Subject: counter pressure fillers I'm looking for a counter-pressure filler and was wondering if anybody has used the one made by Benjamine Machine Products (Modesto CA) that is advertised in Zymurgy occasionally. Also, I have heard that the CPF made by Foxx doesn't work as well as it should. Can anybody comment? thanks, - -- Jay marshall at pat.mdc.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 93 13:55 From: CCASTELL.UNIX11 at mailsrv2.eldec.com (CCASTELL) Subject: Re: Dogbolter Joseph Gareri asked about Dogbolter. I have used it twice and have been quite satisfied both times. The first time I made it almost according to the instructions. (I was curious what it tasted like, never having been to any of David Bruce's pubs.) The first attempt was: 4 lbs Dogbolter hopped malt extract syrup 2-1/2 lbs corn sugar 1 tsp Irish moss Brewer's Choice 1098 (British Ale) liquid yeast (in at least a pint of starter) yield: 3 gallons Bring 3 gallons of water to a boil. Add syrup and sugar, stirring vigorously until dissolved to avoid scorching. Boil for 15 minutes, adding Irish moss for final 5 minutes. Cool. Strain into carboy. Pitch yeast. Rack to secondary after about a week. After two weeks in the secondary, rack to a 3-gallon keg. Force carbonate. (I was in a hurry.) Chill to cellar temperature and serve. This makes a Strong Pale or Amber Ale. I took this to a friend's Christmas party along with a 3 gallon keg of an all-grain stout. Both were completely consumed, but EVERYONE liked this as opposed to the slightly smaller group that liked the stout. For my second attempt, I thought that I'd try a "Winter Warmer". I thought about using some specialty malts, but figured anything they might add would be overwhelmed by the malt and alcohol. Winter Warmer 8 lbs Dogbolter hopped malt extract syrup 3 lbs rice syrup 1 tsp Irish moss Brewer's Choice 1056 (American Ale) liquid yeast (in at least a pint of starter) yield: 5 gallons Bring 5 gallons of water to a boil. Add syrups, stirring vigorously until dissolved to avoid scorching. Boil for 15 minutes, adding Irish moss for final 5 minutes. Cool. Strain into carboy. Pitch yeast. Rack to secondary after about a week. After two weeks, rack to 5-gallon keg. Force carbonate. Chill to cellar temperature and serve. This mades a very dark Strong Ale. I took this to the same friend's Christmas party this past year along with an extract/ specialty malt Christmas ale (spices, oranges, etc.) Once again, both were emptied. However, those who had thought the stout was too dark/heavy/chewy had no problem drinking this dark strong ale, which was quite dark and very potent! Cheers. Charles Castellow ccastell at eldec.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 93 18:00:52 PDT From: Mark Garetz <mgaretz at hoptech.com> Subject: Hop Utilization Glenn Tinseth and Bob Jones write about my hop utilization table. Bob would still like to see the yeast calculation separated from the boil time utilization, and Glenn basically agrees. Glenn goes on to say that the boil time has no effect on the yeast's absorbtion of alpha acids. I agree perfectly with Glenn's statement. I was not meaning to imply with the table that there was a direct relationship between the effect of the yeast and *the amount of alpha acid isomerized per minute of boil time*. However, the table is NOT a table of percent alpha isomerized, but is a UTILIZATION FACTOR table. The utilization as it relates to IBUs in the finished beer. Just because Rager only put boil time in the table, doesn't change what it attempts to accomplish (I verified this by checking Rager's article just now). I have simply added another dimension to the table, for yeast effects. There is no special magic here, the yeast calculation is a straight percentage reduction or increase from the "average" value in the table (20% either way). Since you multiply this percentage times the "average" value, it makes no difference in the final calculation whether you combine the steps as I did, or do them separately as Glenn and Bob suggest. I was simply trying to make the IBU calculations easier by combining the step. (It also keeps Rager's formula the same). I can see Bob's point that if the yeast adjustment value is wrong, the table will need to be updated. But as Glenn points out, that is inevitable anyway as we get closer to better utilization curves. Also as Glenn points out, there are many more factors to be considered other than boil time, gravity and yeast. Eventually, I'm conviced that the whole table will be thrown out in favor of a much more complicated formula that will take a lot of these other factors into account. If one wishes to separate the yeast adjustment factor out, then use the "average" value in the table and adjust your utilization up or down to account for the effect of yeast. BTW, Rager credits not only Eckhardt for the calculations, but also Byron Burch and Dave Miller. Eckhardt only gets sole credit for the table of beer styles vs. IBUs. Mark from HopTech Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 93 22:50:50 -0400 From: jxs58 at po.CWRU.Edu (J. David Stepp) Subject: Re: Dogbolter Joe Gareri asks about Dogbolter. I've brewed this kit twice in the past few years and really enjoy the end result. Both times I used 2 cans (8 lbs. total) + 3 lbs. M&F light dry malt. My OG's were 1.054 and 1.059. It is definitely a strong ale (5-6% EtOH) with a full flavor and dark amber color. I used their yeast both times. I've since cultured and plated out some of the yeast and found no bacterial contamination (on YEPD plates). I vote yes, spark it up! (By the way, I'm an extract/specialty grain brewer with about 4 years/40 batches under my belt, and a graduate student in a yeast lab.) Dave - -- Dave Stepp Department of Molecular Biology and Microbiology Case Western Reserve University Cleve-burg, OH Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 93 21:49 CDT From: fjdobner at ihlpb.att.com Subject: How Long On Fruit Brewers of Fruit, I am interested in the experience of those having brewed with cherries. I brewed a Cherry Weiss with limited success last summer and am attempting at doing it better this year. I am using very tart cherries of which I pitted and froze about 30 lbs. last year. In my current creation, I am using about 11 lbs. for a 5 gallon batch. The question that I have is how long a period time is it recommended to let the fruit sit on the beer? I have already gone through primary fermentation and have racked the fermented weiss onto the cherries and would like to know how long it is that I must now wait. I am sure the answers will be all over the board but so be it. This is my wife's beer so I wanna do good. I will post the recipe. I sought a sweeter end product so I it incorporates 1 lb of crystal and 5 oz of lactose. Frank Dobner Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1993 20:00:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Thomas Feller <thomasf at ursula.ee.pdx.edu> Subject: French Oak This is a post for a friend of mine. Help! I'm making a French Biere de Garde for the upcoming AHA convention in Portland. I would like to use some French Oak, but I'm not sure how much to use. Anyone have any ideas? Thanks Kevan and Tom Return to table of contents
Date: 16 Jun 93 08:34:08 From: "Rafael Busto" <SUPERVISOR at bnk1.bnkst.edu> Subject: Rotten egg smell Help! after two days of fermentation a rotten egg smell is coming out of my bucket. It is a continental light beer, nothing special. Should I discarded and start over or should I wait a little longer? I think that the response is obvious but I need some inputs. Thanks in advance Rafael Busto rafael at bnk2.bnkst.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 93 08:31:13 -0500 From: gjfix at utamat.uta.edu (George J Fix) Subject: Brewing Calculations The June issue of Brewprint, the newsletter of the Boston Wort Processors, had a article by Bob Jones and one by myself containing numbers relating to the use of chlorine. I have got some e-mail asking how these numbers were derived, and the following is an explanation of the ones that appeared in my article. The particular bleach I use has "Active ingredient: 5.25% sodium hypochlorite" on the label. The first term is clear, but the last ones are potentially ambiguous. I contacted a rep, and was told that the hydrated form of sodium hypochlorite is used to make this product. Referring to the CRC Handbook of Chemistry and Physics, one can see this is NaOCl.5H2O. (Sorry folks I can not do subscripts!) The relevant molecular wts. are (in rounded form): Na = 23; Cl = 35.5; O = 16; 5H2O (water of hydration) = 90. This form of sodium hypochlorite thus has a mole. wt. of 164. The Cl fraction is 35.5/164 = .217, and the OCl fraction is 51.5/164 = .314. (I can not do superscripts either so valences are missing!) I was also told that the term "5.25%" could be taken in the sense of vol/vol. Therefore, my bleach contains 52500 ppm in the sense of vols. The rep concurred with this number, although it must be said that storage of bleach at elevated temperatures can lead to lower values. If one dilutes bleach by adding 1 ounce in 1 gallon of water, one will get a sodium hypochlorite concentration of 52500/128 = 410.2 ppm, and a Cl concentration of 410.2*.217 = 89 ppm. (The OCl concentration is 128.8 ppm). Data published by Siebel suggests at these levels, 15 min. contact time is sufficient for bacteria relevant to beer. In an earlier post I mentioned that I do not choose to use this type of soln. with ss eqpt. I meant this as a statement of personal brewing style, and did not put it forward as a scientific principle. The same can be said for iodophor. As a brewer I am sensitive to the active ingredients in these products, which fortunately are always listed on the label. The products I feel comfortable with have iodine (1.75%) and phosphoric acid (18.75%) as the only active ingredients. They are widely used in commercial brewing. I can see how a toxicologist might feel more comfortable with a version where the phosphoric acid is replaced with fatty constituents used in soaps, but I see that too as simply an opinion and not a basic principle. Roger Bergin, an award winning brewer and full time brewing consultant, is preparing an article on sanitation that is aimed at small commercial operations and serious homebrewers as well. He will bring the perspective of a hands on brewer, something this topic badly needs. This paper will appear in Vol. 3 of Brewing Techniques. By the way, Vol. 2 will have an article by Martin Lodahl, which could turn into the most widely read and discussed article in the history of brewing. He deals with malt extracts. To head off anticipated flames, let me state that I get paid $0 for being an editor of BT, and authors get the same compensation. George Fix P.S. I talked on the phone with Mark Carpenter of Anchor yesterday, and found out that Diversity Chem. is not the only one making brewery grade iodophor. Bergin's article will contain a list of the relevant players for this and other compounds. P.P.S. Cushing Hamlen > I still can get through via e-mail. Call me at 817-561-1781. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1993 9:46:55 -0400 (EDT) From: R_GELINAS at UNHH.UNH.EDU (Russ Gelinas) Subject: ppm -> IBU Mark the hop guy, How does the ppm of the hops oil relate to IBU? Or is the oil designed for finishing only, not bittering? Russ Gelinas esp/opal unh Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 93 13:48:26 GMT From: u4imdmre at cpc41.cpc.usace.army.mil (Markham R. Elliott) Subject: Subscription Problems // Japanese Beer Club Fellow Brewers, First, and foremost, has anyone else out there been mysteriously dropped from the HBD distribution list for no apparant reason? I stopped receiving the Digest with issue #1158, Tuesday 8 June. For about 4 issues prior to that, I would receive 2 copies of the day's digest, then on the 8th, they just stopped coming all together. I have been FTPing daily to keep current, but the procedure is getting tedious fast. Can someone who is "e-mail smart", or involved with the Digest's publication/distribution help me get straightened out again please, or is the solution just to re-subscribe and hope I don't get multiple copies daily? Thanks in advance. ... Secondly ... A colleague at work clipped out an article from a magazine and gave it to me the other day, I found it worth sharing. I don't know what publication it came from, or its date. So, obviously it is reprinted here without permission. Japanese Pay $23,000 to Drink Beer at $78 a Pop Beer-loving Japanese businessmen shell out a whopping $23,000 just to become members of a club where they guzzle foreign brews--for nearly $80 a bottle! Beer made in Japan tastes so dreadful that big-wigs eagerly pour into Tokyo's Club Knox, where they can sip beer shipped in from Britain, Switzerland and Belgium. In the ritzy club, the vintage beer from overseas is treated like fine wine, stored in a wine cellar and served in crystal glasses. The oldest vintage in the club's massive collection is 1983 Samischlaus. The fancy Swiss beer is brewed just once a year in December. The most expensive is a 1985 bottle of the British brew Gales Prize Old Ale-- which goes for $78 a pop. - -------End of Article----- Sure glad we don't have to pay prices like that. Noch einmal, bitte!! Mark - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Markham R. Elliott u4imdmre at cpc41.cpc.usace.army.mil Information Technology Laboratory (601) 634-2921 Waterways Experiment Station Vicksburg, Mississippi USA - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 93 10:40:29 EDT From: Jim Busch <busch at daacdev1.stx.com> Subject: RE:filtering with cotton In the last digest, Jack comments on filters: snip snip <Furthermore, it is darker in color and made of cotton. It would seem to me that despite the improvement in performance that Jack found with this cartridge, the reusability of a cotton based filter would be low. What do you do to clean and store a cotton filter? I am not sure I would want to spend $11+ on a filter that I would have to discard or watch get moldy. If you want a cotton filter , my local HW store sells one for $5 and I used it successfully on a cask hopped barley wine and then discarded it. I would also point out what I posted on rec.crafts.brewing: One must be careful of the point of conditioning that you filter. A period of cold conditioning helps to remove the bulk of yeast in suspension, and results in better filtration. Other important factors are the % efficiency of the filter used, and the flow rate. Too high a flow rate results in poor filtration with the cartridge filters. I bought a 5 micron polypro filter from the filter store and it is a good filter for a polished beer, not a sterile filtered or crystal beer. Note I said 5, not .5!! Micro filtered beer is stripped of important beer constituants, that I definetly want in my beer. <Not willing to accept these results, I purchased a known .5 micron filter cartridge from McMaster Carr and ran some tests on it which convinced me that the .5 micron cartridge that came with the filter, most assuridly was not. I am not of the opinion that the Filter Store is misleading brewers as to the size of the cartridge. Why is the McMaster Carr filter a "known" size and the other not?? Good brewing (flame suit on), Jim Busch Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1993 10:56:07 -0600 From: mgerard at caen.engin.umich.edu Subject: Liquid Yeasts I have a question about GW Kent's liquid yeast. I have been trying to use this liquid yeast recently because it's not expensive and readily available (at least in Ann Arbor,MI). Here's my question: How big of a starter do you need and what is a "normal" lag time at 75 degrees? Also should I start with one big starter or should I start with a small starter (12 ounces) and then transfer to a larger starter (1.5 liters)? I've used their yeast in four different batches now and it seems like I need to make about a 1-1.5 liter starter and let it ferment for 4-5 days before pitching to get a lag time shorter than 12 hours. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks, Mike Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1993 10:56:20 -0400 From: an982 at yfn.ysu.edu (Steven Zabarnick) Subject: Full wort boil I finally took the plunge -- I did my first full wort boil this past weekend. I used a new 33 qt ceramic-on-steel kettle and a new Brinkman propane burner. The burner provided excellent control for the boil. I was able to bring 5 gals to boil in 30 mins, and I was VERY conservative about turning the flame up high. My new immersion wort chiller (50 ft of 3/8 inch copper tubing) also worked well; it brought the wort to pitching temperature in <30 minutes. I do have some comments and questions about the process, though. With 5 gals of water and 6 lbs of DME at a rolling boil, the 33 qt kettle was quite close to full. How does one do an all-grain boil in a kettle this size, where one needs to boil about 7 gals? As I boiled out on the porch and set up to chill in the kitchen, I had to carry the full, hot kettle with copper tubing protruding. This was much more challenging then expected. Do most people avoid carrying the hot wort by chilling in place (using a garden hose)? During chilling the kettle cover does not completely seal due to the copper tubing; should I have used plastic wrap to keep out the nasties? Steve Zabarnick Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 93 10:58:49 -0400 From: polstra!norm at uunet.UU.NET Subject: Homebrewing in Germany IMHO there is no need to homebrew in the kingdom in heaven, this meaning a anywhere in Germany. The variety and quality are amazing. Use the time in Germany to recalibrate your taste buds, watch some soccer, enjoy the life styles, join the anti-nazi protest marches, etc, etc. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1993 08:49:58 -0700 From: Richard Stueven <gak at wrs.com> Subject: Re: Texas Micros & Brewpubs >From: drwho2959 at aol.com > >I live in Houston, and frequently >visit several excellent beer bars with literally SCORES of micro >draft taps, including Anchor, Sierra Nevada, August Schell, and >Boston Beer Company products. Well...three out of four ain't bad... have fun gak Richard Stueven, Castro Valley CA gak & gerry's garage, brewpub and hockey haven Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 93 11:01:42 -0500 From: gjfix at utamat.uta.edu (George J Fix) Subject: Extract - Gravity Conversion I have been working on a sequel to my book on brewing science, one that is more practical and quantitative in its orientation. A particular problem that I am facing is the need to find an alternative to listing the complete Plato/Balling tables relating specific gravity SG to extract E (i.e., % extract by wt. or if you like degree Plato). What I am looking for are formulas that can give a digit or so more accuracy than the "factor of 4" rule. Quite by chance I came across one. I have no idea where it came from, and in particular can not take credit (or blame!) for it. I mention it in the forum to solicit reactions. In any case here it is: E = 668.72*SG -463.37 -206.347*SG*SG. This one smells like a curve fit. I bet (this needs to be checked) that a linear fit of the Plato tables gives the factor of 4 rule, and the above is a quadratic fit of the data. Presumably it was introduced to capture the first nonlinear effects. Example 1. Let SG =1.010. Then the above gives E = 668.72*1.01 - 463.37 - 205.347*1.01*1.01 = 2.563. The Plato Tables (17.5 C version) give 2.562. Example 2. Let SG = 1.080. Then E = 668.72*1.08 - 463.37 - 205.347*1.08*1.08 = 19.331. The Plato Tables give 19.311. One can use the quadratic formula to solve the above for SG as a function of E. Since we are only concerned about the first three significant figures in E, one step of Newton's method should give a reasonable result not involving square roots nor choice of sign. This gives the following: SG = 1. + E/( 258.6 - .8796*E). Example 3. Let E =20 P. Then SG = 1. + 20/(258.6 - .8796*20) = 1. + .083 = 1.083. This is the value quoted in the Plato tables. Has anyone seen any of the formulas before? I am sure that at one point in brewing history they must have been "well known". George Fix Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1164, 06/17/93