HOMEBREW Digest #1177 Thu 08 July 1993

Digest #1176 Digest #1178

		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator

  Specialty Products Intl. part 3 of 4 (korz)
  subscription request ( Russ Mclaren)
  Hops: Growin' & Dry (Derrick Pohl)
  Oxygenation during secondary rack (Domenick Venezia)
  Beer in Chicago, Beer at the ballpark (Philadelphia) (Matthew Mitchell)
  Problems with recent batches---cidery taste (Jim Graham)
  Techincal postings, Continuous brewing (waltman)
  Lee Slezak in '94 (chris campanelli)
  Weissbeir Yeast Cultures (Hardy M. Cook)
  Yeast info, steam beer recipe request, and a chest off-getting. (WEIX)
  Oxidation (geotex)
  Re: Cask Question (Conn Copas)
  starters,pH adjustment (Dave Justice)
  use of oxygen regulators with CO2 (DON'T). (gmeier)
  Re: brewing capitol of the world ("Donald G. Scheidt")
  Re: KQED San Francisco Beer Festival (David Adams)
  Bruheat etc. (Steve Lichtenberg x79300)
  RE: Copper question (Dave Gilbert)
  Re: KQED San Francisco Beer Festival (Richard Stueven)
  RE:Homebrew Digest #1176 (July 07, 1993) (John Mare)
  carboy -> chest freezer (Greg Jesus Wolodkin)
  Little Hole (Jack Schmidling)
  Hot break (Darren Aaberge)
  Re: Besieged by baleful bacteria / infection survey / adverts (Drew Lynch)
  Specialty Products Intl. part 4 of 4 (korz)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 6 Jul 93 16:45 CDT From: korz at iepubj.att.com Subject: Specialty Products Intl. part 3 of 4 This is part 3 of my review of "Home Beermakers Guide" by Leigh P. Beadle. Pg8: "PROCEDURE Fill your fermenter with 4 gallons of cold water." No mention of boiling and cooling, so I'm assuming that plain, chlorinated or bacteria-laden tapwater is recommended. Chlorinated water, if unboiled to drive off the chlorine, can result in chlorophenols in your beer which are detectable to taste at the parts-per-billion level. Bacteria, well, we all know what that will do to your beer. "Add 1/4 teaspoon of gelatin to the water in the saucepan without stirring, bring to a boil, and turn off the heat. Add a can of Superbrau Ingredient Mix and a level teaspoon of salt to the saucepan and stir until completely dissolved." Hmm? Gelatin? Salt? My ingredient count is up to 8, how about yours? Gelatin can reduce chill haze if used correctly, but it should be used at bottling time and not boiled -- just raised to 140F to sanitize. Boiling it would render it quite useless for fining-out the tannins that the author is presumably trying to remove. It's true that a little salt can improve flavor (Chlorine ions), but I'd say that this recipe is already beyond help. "Add 2 pounds of cane sugar (4 cups), and stir until dissolved. Reheat the mix to a boil for 2 minutes, then pour it into the cold water in the fermenter. Stir thoroughly or the hot mix will sink to the bottom. Next, pour a pack of Superbrau yeast into the beer and after 10 minutes, stir thoroughly." No mention of aeration. To me, "stir thoroughly" is different from aeration. Even though this is dry yeast that was "imported from overseas," it still requires that the wort be aerated. Again this 2 minute boiling time is a laugh and a half. By the way, cane and corn sugar will, indeed, create the same cidery flavors, but they are not actually the same. Corn sugar is dextrose (glucose) and cane sugar is mostly sucrose. Yeast can absorb glucose directly, but sucrose is a glucose molecule bonded to a fructose molecule and thus must be split outside the yeast cell by an enzyme that yeast release (whose name escapes me at the moment) before being absobed by the yeast. Pg9: "To carbonate, add on-half teaspoon of white household sugar to each of your clean 12 ounce bottles. You will need 48 bottles. Use a small funnel and 1/2 measuring teaspoon." No mention of sanitizing the bottles, spoon, funnel or the sugar. Bacteria and wild yeast can and do exist on clean glass, spoons, funnels and in sugar. Besides being unsanitary, inconsistent carbonation can be the result of this procedure, not only from inconsistent amounts of sugar, but also from incomplete dissolution of the granular sugar. No, a much better way of priming is to siphon into another food-grade vessel and add a measured amount, 1/2 to 3/4 cup dextrose boiled in a cup or two of water. To be continued... Al. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 93 17:13:11 PDT From: russ at netcom.com ( Russ Mclaren) Subject: subscription request Please add me to the list. Thanks, Russ mclaren at ikos.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1993 18:01:46 -0800 From: pohl at unixg.ubc.ca (Derrick Pohl) Subject: Hops: Growin' & Dry Two points re hops - one a question, the other a report: 1) Growin' Hops I planted two rhizomes about six or seven weeks ago, received from a mail order company. One was Nugget, the other Centennial. Nugget sprouted and is doing well, but no sign yet of Centennial. I followed the accompanying directions, i.e. planted upright with the top of the rhizome about two inches underground. I'm sure neither was planted upside down. Both had small traces of some sort of mold growing here and there on the skin of the rhizome (they were shipped wrapped in plastic bags). They've had plenty of water and are in a sunny spot, but the soil is not great. Realizing the soil was indeed substandard, I fertilized nine days ago and the Nugget, which had sprouted but was small, responded vigourously. But still, no Centennial. My question is: is there hope for the Centennial? How long can a rhizome conceivably sit underground without sprouting? Might it appear next year? Or is it now no more than a decomposing stick? 2) Dryhoppin' Just wanted to report with considerable glee that my first attempt at dry-hopping has resulted in a phenomenally hoppy and delightful pale ale! I think it's the only way to get that bright, in-your-face, almost citrus-like, aggressive hoppiness characteristic of the finest North American microbrew. I threw an ounce of loose Cascade hops into the secondary and bottled nine days later. The hops pretty much just floated on top, even though I tried to push them down a couple times with a sanitized slotted spoon, and I was worried that not enough hop flavour would get into the brew, but my fears were groundless. God knows what the hop utilization figures might be (though judging from the recent thread on the issue, even s/he is probably not sure), but the result was exactly the delicious mega-hoppiness I sought. And as has been suggested here, one does obtain a major aroma boost with little additional bitterness. I also had no clogging problems with the racking tube. The hops just floated at the top, and I siphoned the beer out underneath them. I look forward to trying it with my lagers next winter. So if you haven't tried dry-hopping yet, do it, do it, do it! - ----- Derrick Pohl (pohl at unixg.ubc.ca) UBC Faculty of Graduate Studies, Vancouver, B.C. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1993 19:07:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Domenick Venezia <venezia at zgi.com> Subject: Oxygenation during secondary rack In planning my next batch of beer, the question came up as to the extent of oxygenation when racking to the secondary. Anybody want to estimate the effects? Other than to be as gentle as possible any suggestions to minimize the oxygenation? How about throwing a small piece of dry ice into the secondary, and letting it evaporate. CO2 is heavier than air and as the dry ice sublimates it should force out all the air. Should I bother? Domenick Venezia ZymoGenetics, Inc. venezia at zgi.com Return to table of contents
Date: 06 Jul 93 21:59:10 EDT From: Matthew Mitchell <IEKP898%tjuvm.bitnet at TJUVM.TJU.EDU> Subject: Beer in Chicago, Beer at the ballpark (Philadelphia) From: Matthew Mitchell Sorry if this rains on anyone's parade, but I was quite disappointed by Goose Island when I visited Chicago a couple of weeks ago. Granted I didn't get to try the Hopscotch Ale which I was looking forward to (it's my kind of style) but there wasn't anything there that I liked as much as its counter- part which I had had at Dock Street (Philadelphia) the night before. Best example was the weissbier: I actually finished the sampler size at Dock Street the first weissbier I remember finishing| Generally, the Goose Island seemed less flavorful. To change the subject: someone pointed out the micro-brew available at the Stick. Veterans Stadium now has a stand on the 200-level which is exclusively imported beer (and some from Pottsville 8^) Price is $4.75 a bottle with a couple of exceptions like Sam Smiths. Now I didn't check to see if they actually had everything offered: I'd much rather bring a half-gallon of lemonade (99c) and maybe a flask if I have to have something alcoholic. Do we need to compile a Ballpark beer guide??? My recommendation: Blue Hen beer at Wilmington, Del. (As I've said before: Lion in Wilkes-Barre is #1 for contract-made beer both the late, lamented Trupert BTW: anyone ever try to match that or get the recipe from Joe Ortlieb? and Blue Hen. Apologies to West End, a close #2, if only because the Saranac they sell themselves) Howzat!?! Matthew Mitchell <iekp898 at tjuvm.tju.edu> <iekp898 at tjuvm.bitnet> Former Brewmaster, Penthouse Brewing Co., Haverford PA makers of Barclay Beer, Penthouse Brown Ale, and Big B Malt Liquor Inquiring minds want to know: how the h*** did SCHLITZ win the GABF??? Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1993 20:20:35 -0600 (CDT) From: jim at n5ial.mythical.com (Jim Graham) Subject: Problems with recent batches---cidery taste My apologies if this appears twice---it shouldn't. It seems that my first attempt at routing this via a faster UUCP path didn't quite work. :-( First, some background: I'm more or less a beginner.... I still brew from kits (or at least, from malt extracts+hops), and can't afford the equipment to go beyond this yet. I've made a fair number of batches, and all (except the most recent two) came out fantastic. Now, the problem: My most recent two batches have a cidery sort of taste to them. It's not really what I would call sour, as such, but it is pretty bad. The owner of the local homebrew supply shop tells me that sometimes, you'll get a batch that takes a *LOT* longer to age (he said sometimes even 5 weeks---the first of these has now been in bottles for roughly 3.5 weeks), and based solely on my description, he thinks these batches might just need to continue to age. Btw, both batches have good carbonation, and at the bottling stage, everything seemed perfectly normal (from what little I know, at least). Does this sound like anything people have seen before? Could these batches have gone bad on me? Does this have anything to do with the fact that the outside temps are no longer just in the 80s and low 90s, but more like 90s, with heat index readings at/near 110 deg. F? I do have central air, and keep the temperature inside at/near 78 deg., but I gather that there's more to it than just this? Any idea if these batches will recover? What about the batch in the fermenter now? Is it likely to suffer the same fate? --jim - -- #include <std_disclaimer.h> 73 DE N5IAL (/4) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ INTERNET: jim at n5ial.mythical.com | j.graham at ieee.org ICBM: 30.23N 86.32W AMATEUR RADIO: (packet station temporarily offline) AMTOR SELCAL: NIAL - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ E-mail me for information about KAMterm (host mode for Kantronics TNCs). Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 06 Jul 1993 23:02:52 -0400 (EDT) From: waltman at BIX.com Subject: Techincal postings, Continuous brewing As a new homebrewer (8th batch in primary) and a very new HBD reader (1 week, but have been reading archives) I thought I'd add to the discussion of the technicality of some postings. Even though there are many discussions I do not follow AT PRESENT -- as my knowledge of the chemistry and biology of brewing increases I hope to go back and understand them better at a later date. Similarly, I do not now do any kegging of my beer, so I do a quick scan of the posts on that subject, but when I do have decide to take the plunge it will be nice to have this information available. In the mean time, that is why the PageDown key was invented. So keep the technical posts coming and help me changed from a receipe follower to a brewing engineer and scientist. As for advertising, I do think a policy is required. Some of the posts remind me of the benchmark wars I've seen in other forums. As Mark Twain has been paraphrased "There are lies, damned lies and benchmarks." Announcements of new products by their distributors are great. So are third parties comments of "I used X and it was great" or "I tried Y and it was lousy." Distributors of products should not make negative comments about competing products and personal remarks should be avoided. On another note, does anyone have any references or information on continous brewing? My father is a mathematician and one class of problems he studies is the theory of chemostats -- which is essentially a continuous fermentor. Private e-mail is fine. Lastly, thank you to all who responded with advice on my question regarding importing homebew into Canada. I will let you all know how things turned out after the family re-union/ Fred Waltman. waltman at bix.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 93 22:01 CDT From: akcs.chrisc at vpnet.chi.il.us (chris campanelli) Subject: Lee Slezak in '94 I feel the compulsion to waist bandwidth for a wholly personal reason: Lee Slezak, if you are still breathing, I need the talk to you. Contact me asap. chris campanelli Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1993 06:55:00 EDT From: hmcook at boe00.minc.umd.edu (Hardy M. Cook) Subject: Weissbeir Yeast Cultures Concerning Dennis Lewis's question about Weissbeir yeasts: You might try Brewer's Resource at 1-800-8-brewtek for slants of wheat yeasts. CL-90 Belgian Wheat -- A top fermenting yeast which produces a soft, bread like flavor and leaves a sweet, mildly estery finish. CL-92 German Wheat -- A true, top fermenting Weizenbier yeast, Spicy, clovy and estery. High attenuative. CL-94 American Wheat - Offers a smooth, slightly sweet wheat beer, with a full, clean, underattenuated malt flavor. I have purchased the German and the American but have not had a chance to use these two cultures yet. The other cultures I purchased from BrewTek have worked great. Hope this helps. - --Hardy M. Cook HMCook at boe00.minc.umd.edu PS: the German Wheat is a single strain culture unlike the Wyeast variety. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1993 07:46:52 -0500 (CDT) From: WEIX at swmed.edu Subject: Yeast info, steam beer recipe request, and a chest off-getting. Thanks to all who responded to my recent request for info on yeast strain variance. Unfortunately the compiled information is greater than 8k which precludes posting it on the HBD whole; however, I found this information to be of great interest Given the certainty of this topic's reemergence, I was wondering if anyone else would like to see a Yeast FAQ for storage on the archive. I could and would submit the strain variances, proper rehydrating techniques, and culture methods as a FAQ resource. Can someone tell me how to go about this or who to contact? If there is no interest in an archive submission, I will chop the info up into 4 sections (Dry, Liquid Ale, Liquid Lager, and Misc/Wine/Funky_Belgian_Fungi/etc) and force it on the digest readership as a whole. One more request:I wanna make a Steam(tm) beer! I have looked at the recipe in Papazian's New Testament for The Sun Has Left Us on Time Lager, but am unsure of the fermentation times. Does one lager a steam beer? How cool does room temperature have to be? Please deluge me with your favorite award winning recipes! Thanks! Patrick Weix UT Southwestern at Dallas weix at swmed.edu P.S. Not to start a flame war or anything but why do people submit recipes that they have not tried? I hate to read an interesting recipe only to see "I'll let you know if this works" or some variant of same at the end. Show some restraint and tell us if it works after you've had a glass or three! Glad to get that off my chest! P.P.S. The above does not of course reply to harebrained ideas about papershredder/maltmills etc. That sort of free exchange of ideas and brainstorming makes the HBD great! (I use harebrained in the best intentioned way of course >(:p <--rabbit sticking out tounge?!?!). Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 93 09:51:06 EDT From: <geotex at engin.umich.edu> Subject: Oxidation Greetings. There has been a lot of talk about oxidation lately. Would someone be so kind as to give me an explanation of what exactly it is. I realize it has something to do with having hot wort exposed to oxygen (aerated). Is cooling the hot wort (before adding it to the cold water in the fermenter) the best way to prevent this problem? Fill me in! Thanks Alex Ramos geotex at engin.umich.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 93 15:41:17 BST From: Conn Copas <C.V.Copas at lut.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Cask Question Keith asks about wooden casks. I don't use one myself, but obviously they are not going to hold a great deal of pressure in the first place and, secondly, are likely to lose pressure with time. So you need a strategy in which (a) you are prepared to drink the brew quickly and young and (b) you encourage a prolonged secondary ferment in the cask. My advice would be to use finings both to hasten drinkability, but more importantly, to slow the primary fermentation down before it has gone quite to completion. This seems to result in earlier condition than that which is achieved simply by priming the cask. Lastly, (heresy button on) an attenuative dried yeast could be used to ensure prolonged fermentation. - -- Conn V Copas Loughborough University of Technology tel : +44 509 263171 ext 4164 Computer-Human Interaction Research Centre fax : +44 509 610815 Leicestershire LE11 3TU e-mail - (Janet):C.V.Copas at uk.ac.lut G Britain (Internet):C.V.Copas at lut.ac.uk Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 07 Jul 93 09:06:40 CDT From: Dave Justice <DD24005 at UAFSYSB.UARK.EDU> Subject: starters,pH adjustment Hi all, I've been reading HBD for a few months now and my brewing has improved as a result. This is a fantastic forum and I wouldn't change a thing. For this, my first post, I have one datapoint and one question. Datapoint: I've been getting much quicker and visibly impressive yeast starters going by using boiled or canned wort saved from previous (all-grain) batches. I usually pitch the starter before retiring at night and with this method, I'm seeing a good 1/2" to 3/4" krausen in the starter the next morning. No combination of DME and yeast nutrients ever worked this well for me, I was lucky to see any decent krausen after 1.5 days or so. Question: Lately I've taken to adjusting the pH of my sparge water using acid blend. Exactly what is that stuff? It takes about 3/8 tsp. per 5 gallons to get the pH of my tap water into the 5.5 to 5.8 range. My beers are turning out just fine, but it hasn't seemed to improve my extraction. I think there are other more significant factors at work there. Comments? Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1993 11:02:56 -0600 From: gmeier at ncsa.uiuc.edu Subject: use of oxygen regulators with CO2 (DON'T). David Skelton writes: >"I'm currently setting up a kegging system for my beer and I was wondering if >there was any reason why I can't use my O2 regulator from my oxy/acetylene >setup. If threads are the only problem then I could come up with an adapter >but I don't know if there is any difference in the regulator itself." I wouldn't do it. I don't know if there is any difference in the regulator itself, but regulators for oxygen service should never be allowed to be contaminated with anything potentially flammable (oil or other hydrocarbons are the most common problem). A contaminated regulator, when put back into service with high pressure oxygen, presents an explosion hazard. Regulators are so expensive that I assume somebody somewhere will hook up your oxygen regulator to an oxygen tank again. In the same issue of HBD, Al wrote: >"Regarding force carbonation, you can begin at a higher pressure, but in >eventually, you will need to use the tables to determine what pressure >you need to use for the temperature you've chosen. Be careful when >you lower the pressure at the gauge (release the pressure in the keg >first) or you will get a lot of foam and some may travel back up your >CO2 line towards the regulator." So it looks like contamination of the regulator is a real risk. Gary Meier FMC Corporation Box 8 Princeton, NJ 08543 (609) 951-3448 Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 93 8:15:39 PDT From: "Donald G. Scheidt" <dgs1300 at aw101.iasl.ca.boeing.com> Subject: Re: brewing capitol of the world In HOMEBREW Digest #1164, Thu 17 June 1993, we find: >From: STROUD%GAIA at leia.polaroid.com >Subject: brewing capitol of the world > >It is very easy in the current renaissance-in-brewing atmosphere in the US to >get wrapped up in our own little corner of the world and think that we sit on >top of the best beer. But the truth is that we're not even close. There is >high quality brew in this country, but there is also a *lot* more mediocre beer >being made, whether you're talking the East Coast, the West Coast, or >somewhere in between. Partly true. Microbrews hold a fraction of the market, and the big three or four lager brewers hold a huge share of the market among them. However, in the last 12 years, we've gone from 50 operating breweries in the USA to over 350 - and about 300 of these are putting out some quality products. In terms of volume, the USA is the brewing giant of the world - we 'Merkins brew more in quantity than any other country, although we don't consume more per capita (viz. Germany, Belgium, Czech Republic). In terms of quality, though, we're still re-learning lessons forgotten long ago, a result of Prohibition. The current wave of American beer-bragging is due to a recent phenomenon - we finally have beer to brag about! For years, Europeans could visit us here, and while we Americans could crow over their material life-style, they could justifiably sneer at the mediocre, flavourless American beers. Now we have good brews again (although some of the praise is not fully justified), and we've come a long way. As local people become accustomed, I hope they'll be able to relax and enjoy the good things being made with a quiet sense of pride. Some of our recent converts to Good Beer still have a bit to learn about the Rest Of The World; just give 'em some time. >Beer Heaven (and the Brewing Capitol of the World) in undoubtedly located in >Europe. I'd nominate Belgium for Heaven, Bavaria for the Capitol, with the >British Isles and the rest of Germany as close also-rans. >The USA is hardly in the race. Much has been said about the "beer-belt" of brewing that stretches from the UK across much of north-central Europe. The origins of most of our well-known beer-styles are in these lands. It's kind of ironic to brag about "locally- produced" pale ale, stout, or pilsener, knowing the origins of these styles. We might be able to make a case for Anchor Steam, it being a style all its own, but most of our beer is derived from some style imported from across the Atlantic. Lager from Germany and Austria, pilsner from Bohemia, bitter ale from the UK; even our basic barley and hops were originally imports, transplanted here. What was that about "our victuals and especially our ale being spent", entered in the log of a little boat called the "Mayflower"...? Hey, we've even imported actual brewers! Does "Celis" ring a bell? >If you've been to Europe, you know what I mean. If you haven't been there, >what are you waiting for? For a lot of folks, it's a matter of priorities. Raising a family, paying the rent or mortgage, or even a touch of good old xenophobia: all may con- tribute to settling for what's available in "my own back yard". In some cases, this has eventually hardened into an attitude that it's just plain "disloyal" to consume foreign products, because if it was American-made, it was good enough. Well, it often wasn't "good enough", as GM and Ford discovered in the 70s and 80s, and the big brewers are discovering as they fight for stagnating or declining market share, while the micros keep on growing, and the homebrewers keep on making their own. For those who go abroad, though, visit the old centers of brewing - and take one or two bottles of good New American micro-brew with you, to show the natives that maybe we are catching on, finally. I've done it once or twice. BTW, beer chauvinism is alive and well in Germany. They don't much care for beers from outside of Germany, with the very occasional exception. Of course, they may just be a teensy little bit justified, at least on occasion, in thinking that their country, especially the southern part, is some sort of center of brewing. Actually, I keep thinking that my brew-cellar is the brewing capitol of my own immediate neck of the universe (Maritime Pacific and Redhook notwith- standing). Don't all homebrewers regard their cellars this way ... ? ;-) - -- /\ \ | Don Scheidt | /\ \ / \ \ | Boeing IASL, 777 Cab Development | / \ \ / /\ \ \ | dgs1300 at aw101.iasl.ca.boeing.com | / /\ \ \ Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 93 11:18:34 -0400 From: David Adams <tmc!david at uunet.UU.NET> Subject: Re: KQED San Francisco Beer Festival Ron Hall writes... > I am surprised that there have been no posts yet about the KQED > San Francisco Beer Festival. Perhaps it is the format of the thing > that makes it not get the kind of recognition that the GABF or the Oregon > Brewers Festival get, as it may not appeal to some homebrewers. > Let me describe it this way: > ... One of the Boston NPR stations, WBUR (Boston University Radio?) has been running essentially the same event for a few years, calling it "A Brewer's Offering". Part of the price is tax deductible, and you get a free Pilsner glass (at least you did two years ago.) If you are in the Boston area, 90.9 FM is where you can get details. The event is more condusive to getting mildly trashed on quality brew than it is to actually doing some judging. Noise, banners, munchies, bands playing, CROWDS, more noise, too much to choose from, no space for taking notes. That said, though, it's a fun time for what it is. I, for one, am heading to Portland this year. See y'all at Tom McCall park... Dave ===================================================================== /vvvvvvv\ David Adams : \ / Monitor Company : -|- | Information Engineering : This space intentionally OO---&) | : ( | david at monitor.com -OR- : left blank | | uunet!tmc!david : ===================================================================== Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 93 11:32:09 -0400 From: steve at Pentagon-EMH6.army.mil (Steve Lichtenberg x79300) Subject: Bruheat etc. Hey now -- In HBD 1176 Richard Childers described hid ideas for building a mash/brew kettle. While this was quite detailed it seemed overly complicated (maybe a case of overanalysing a simple problem :-) ). The final product described in Richard's post sounds suspiciously like a commercial steam jacketed kettle as used by almost every restaurant in the world. These kettels are a dfouble walled stainless steel vessel which circulates live steam through the gap between the walls and are available in sizes from 3 gallon all the way up to 100+ gallons. I have been thinking that it would make an ideal mash/boil vessel and have been actively searching the used restaurant equipment dealers in the area for one. I have found many in a variety of sizes but they are all a little too expensive right now. In addition, I need one with a built in boiler (not many people have steam boilers in their houses) this adds to the price considerably. Used kettles in the 5 -10 gallon range that fit my requirements are available for around $300-500. I would like to find one for around 100 -150 in fair condition that can be cleaned up. The principle advantages of using steam to heat your wort are 1. Speed. Since steam has about 6 times more latent heat than water at the same temperature, it will bring 10 gallons of liqquid to a boil in a few minutes. 2. Ability to maintain a rolling boil without having to worry about scorching. Since there is a maximum temperature that steam can maintain it is much more difficult to scorch and/or caramelize sugars in the process. I do see some potential difficulties in trying to mash in this type of vessel though. Since steam is generally much higher in temperature than the target temps of the mash and the heat generated in the kettle is evenly distributed throughout the interior spaces it would be a little difficult to maintain targeted temperatures. Constant monitoring and adjustment would be necessary to avoid overshooting. i still think that a steam kettle would be worth investigating. Anyone out there wiht any experience using one is welcome to respond. - --S ^ Brewers do it while they mash Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1993 08:52:53 -0800 (PDT) From: Dave Gilbert <solomon!solomon.aha.com!dave at yoda.eecs.wsu.edu> Subject: RE: Copper question Jim Grady writes: > Well, I have finally started to build a coppper manifold and have a > question. I see two types of copper pipe in the hardware store; M type > and L type. What kind do I want? Do I care? Well I don't know what the M and L stand for, but last weekend when I was constructing my copper manifold, I discovered the hard way what the differences are between the two types of flexible copper pipe available to me. (deep breath, don't you love run on sentences) To make a long story short, the two types of copper pipe that I found are both the same O.D.(5/8ths I think), but one has much thicker walls and is, (with my limited skills) impossible to bend smoothly and in has some sort of greasy film on the inside. The other pipe has much thinner walls and is bright and clean on the inside. The thinner walled pipe can be easily bent into just about any configuration that you need. So, to sum it all up, get the thinner walled pipe, your life will be much more fulfilling, and your neighbors won't cover their childern's ears when they walk past your garage. Hope this helps. Dave Gilbert dave at aha.com Advanced Hardware Architectures Inc. Moscow, Idaho Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1993 09:38:51 -0700 From: Richard Stueven <gak at wrs.com> Subject: Re: KQED San Francisco Beer Festival In HBD# 1176, Ron Hall gives us this well-intentioned misinformation: > The KQED Beer Fest is on July 10 in San Francisco, I believe at >the Armory, south of Market Street near I-80. Disclaimer: I have >nothing to do with this Festival, just thought you should know. >also FYI, KQED is the local public television station. > > Bay Area Locals: Please post corrections or more specific info if >you know more than this. Here's the scoop, courtesy of the California Celebrator: July 10 San Francisco CA 11th Annual KQED International Beer & Food Festival, 1-4pm, Concourse, 8th & Brannan. $35 (members save on advance orders). 250 beers, micro pavilion, lots of food & music. 415-553-2200 for info. The Concourse is on Brannon between 7th and 8th. Get there early...there's usually a block-long line at the door! See you there... have fun gak (gak & gerry's garage, brewery and hockey haven, Castro Valley CA) P.S. July 17-18 Mountain View CA California Small Brewers Festival at the Tied House. Call 415-965-2739 for info. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1993 09:46:31 -0700 (MST) From: cjohnm at ccit.arizona.edu (John Mare) Subject: RE:Homebrew Digest #1176 (July 07, 1993) A few weeks back while in one of my favourite "real ale" pubs ("The Brewery Tap") in Glasgow, Scotland, I was told by the proprietor that he had read in the Glasgow Herald that A-Busch had bought a controlling interest in Budweiser Budvar! Bad, bad news if true! John M. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 93 10:00:42 PDT From: greg at bandit.berkeley.edu (Greg Jesus Wolodkin) Subject: carboy -> chest freezer Jonathan G Knight writes: >For those of you who have chest-freezers with top-opening designs, how do >get the full carboys in and out w/o breaking your backs? You could use a milk crate to "protect" the carboy, providing handles for it at the same time. Now all you need is a block and tackle over the freezer and you're all set ;-) Cheers, Greg Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 93 12:05 CDT From: arf at genesis.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling) Subject: Little Hole >From: mdcsc!gdh at uunet.UU.NET (Garrett Hildebrand) >I, too, have a six-gallon Vollrath. I have been thinking about modifying it with a valve on the bottom, as has been mentioned by others, and of trying out the "easysparge" type of system discribed by js and others, but I haven't found anybody to do the welding, and I also don't know where to get a suitable stainless valve. Two points here. If you use the easymash concept, no welding is required and you can get by just fine with brass fittings available at any hardware store. >After reading your comments about your lautering manifold and the use of a syphon, it sounds like you have gotten around the problem of needing a valve on the pot. It has been pointed out by several that the easymash screen can just as well be put on the end of a long piece of copper tubing that rises up out of the kettle and connects to a hose. It produces a siphon and the screen is far easier to make than the tubing manifold. Having said that, a spigot on the bottom of a kettle just seems to add a touch of class and convenience that I could not live without. I will never understand the reluctance of some people to drill a hole in a kettle that they bought specifically for the purpose of brewing, when that little hole will make the kettle a "real" brew kettle. js Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 93 10:17:14 PDT From: dra at jsc-ws.sharpwa.com (Darren Aaberge) Subject: Hot break In hbd 1159, Al says this about adding hops to the boil to help with protein coagulation: >Indeed hop particles will help with protein coagulation, but I feel that you >should wait till after the hot break to add the hops in the first place. >The last time I recall reading about this is in a post from Stuart somewhere >around HBD 1150. My contention, as that mentioned by Stuart, is that the >hops will do too-good a job coagulating proteins *AROUND THEMSELVES* thereby >reducing the utilization. Now, if you wait till after the hot break, I >suggest that there will still be some coagulation of proteins around the >hops, but not nearly as much as if the hops were added before the hot break. > >Why does this matter? Well, the theory is that the protein coagulated >around the hops will reduce utilization. I always wait until after the hot break to add hops for this reason. However, I also always find myself wanting very badly to add the hops to avoid a boil over. Does anyone else have an opinion on this? Has anyone done a side by side analysis of this? I have observed that even waiting until after the hot break to add hops, they still get coated with protein. Darren Aaberge Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 07 Jul 93 09:51:48 -0700 From: Drew Lynch <drew at chronologic.com> Subject: Re: Besieged by baleful bacteria / infection survey / adverts Jeff Benjamins bacteria problem: Acck! I just got rid of a nasty infection which ruined 6 5 gallon batchs. It's almost enough to send you back to the liquor store for commercial beer. I think that our problems differ in source, but not in result. My contamination was occurring due to a contaminated primary fermenter, and a desire to dump less bleach into the environment. Anyway, I think my soulution may work for you as well. I became a serious anal retentive when it comes to sanitization. I bleach the shit out of everything(1 cup/[3-5] gallons). I use long contact times on everything, at least 15 minutes, including the fermentation locks, rubber stoppers, my rubber gloves, everything. I rinse with *chlorinated* tap water. Three points with you method: 1) Try reboiling your canned starter wort just prior to use. You may have bacteria collecting around the lid of the jar, creating an infection upon opening. Put the lid on the boiling pot prior to turning off the heat, so even the lid is steam sterilized. 2) Put a drop of bleach in each fermentation lock used, so bacteria will not be able to "swim" through it.. 3) Let the Wyeast package swell until you are sure it will burst, then a little more. Get that population as high as possible before exposing it to your environment. ==================================================================== Infections in general: About 6 months ago I posted a request for people's infection rates and sanitization methods. I did this because I had heard so much about other folks problems, and had had none myself, and was curious about my good fortune. Well, I guess I forgot to "knock on wood" before posting "I've never had a contaminated batch" :-( Anyway, I got 30 responses but was unable to find a reasonable thread of cause/effect. I will mail out a compressed, uuencoded tarfile of the responses if anyone is interested. ===================================================================== Advertising: How about this: Once a month, each person who sells a product may post a "I sell this product" message. No claims, no hype, no prices, no details, just a clear statement of intent to sell. Interested parties may then send them private email requesting info on their product. These people should then refrain from taking part in discussions on their or competing products. People with personal or financial interest (close friends of sellers, etc) should show similar restraint. Recomendations from satisfied customers in responses to queries from other list members would always be welcome. Drew Lynch Chronologic Simulation (415)965-3312 x18 drew at chronologic.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 93 09:49 CDT From: korz at iepubj.att.com Subject: Specialty Products Intl. part 4 of 4 This is part 4 of my review of "Home Beermakers Guide" by Leigh P. Beadle. Pg10: "To establish a siphon you must such on the end of the siphon hose while it is lower then the opposite end." Actually, the author is not only showing that they know nothing about microbiology, but also that they know nothing about physics. For a siphon to work, the position of the inlet does not matter as long as it is under the level of the liquid. The level of the siphon outlet must be below the level of the top of the liquid and is NOT AT ALL DEPENDENT ON THE LEVEL OF THE INLET! Back to microbiology. Besides the zillions of bacteria on your hands, there are hundreds of zillions of bacteria in your mouth. Sucking on a siphon hose with your mouth is probably one of the best ways to infect your beer with lactobacillus which is everpresent in the human mouth. Lactobacillus will eat sugars that the yeast have left behind and cause your beer to gush about four to six weeks after bottling. "Unlike commercial beers, which start deteriorating as soon as they are bottled, your home-made beer has an unlimited shelf life. This is because of the natural preservative quality of the yeast." No, the author's beer has an unlimited shelf life because the author has infected their beer by using an unsanitized fermenter and by sucking on unsanitized siphon hoses and there is nothing left in the beer to spoil. Also, the bacteria and wild yeast have produced so many off-flavors, combined with the chlorophenols from the tapwater, that any further spoilage would not be noticeable. Please also note that there are commercial beers such as Sierra Nevada and Bell's that do have yeast in them. It is unfair (besides being wrong) to include these fine beers when criticizing the industrial megabrewers. Pg13: "Types of Beer... CANADIAN LAGER Throughout the world pilsner beers represent the highest class of beer. This recipe will produce a refreshing, non-filling beer with rich European flavor and aroma." I will not debate the highest class of beer, although I, personally, prefer Belgian and English ales over pilsners. Given that the author says: "Do not ferment your beer in rooms that are less than 60 degrees..." none of these kits are for making lagers. They are for making (to use the expression very loosely) ales. Also, if it has a "rich European flavor and aroma," then why call it "CANADIAN LAGER?" "AMBER This beer is traditionally brewed during the Octoberfest season in Germany and is made using lightly roasted malt. It has an amber color and heavier malt flavor than most beers." I think the author incorrectly believes that this is an Octoberfest recipe. Octoberfest is a lager and is traditionally brewed FOR Octoberfest not DURING. It has traditionally been brewed in March for consumption in October. Nonetheless, at fermentation temperatures above 60F, what will probably be made is a very watery and cidery scottish ale. Pg15: "For a European-style beer, simply increase the boiling time for the Ingredient Mix. For a Heineken or Becks style beer, give the mix a high boil for 10 minutes... A fifteen minute boil produces a strong British ale, and a 20 to 40 minute boil with the Dark Mix makes a moderate or strong stout. for a richer stout, leave out a gallon of the cold water..." The magic of brewing, eh? Gosh, I never new it was so simple. Beginners: please just forget you ever read the above quote -- it is so wrong, I can't even begin to correct it. Pg21: "SOME FINAL THOUGHTS The unique feature of our Ingredient Mixes is that they contain 1/2 ounce of fresh, uncooked hops. (These are the lumps you see in the syrup when you pour it out.) This gives you an infinite variety of beer flavor which you tailor to your own taste simply by extending the normal 2 minute boil." "The beer should be consumed within a month after bottling..." Hey, what happened to unlimited shelf life??? "...This is because the yeast may slowly convert some of the remaining sugars in the beer and cause it to become thinner flavored and may over-carbonate it. If the carbonation remains normal after 3 weeks in the bottle, no problem." No, it means that you have been lucky and did not infect your beer too bad. Of course it's not the yeast that continues to eat the sugars, it's the bacteria, but I don't think Leigh P. Beadle has ever bothered to learn about bacteria, despite the fact that he is the author of some "best selling" books on brewing. Yeah, right. This is a comedic brochure, right? This company doesn't really exist, does it? Did Chris Campanelli write this for laughs? No, I'm afraid this is a real company and they are really misguiding beginners into brewing a "beer" that tastes worse than the industrial megabrews. The prices are reasonable, but are not the best available through mailorder. They do have a Pure Malt Extract (without lumps, and allegedly without corn syrup) for the same price as the mercifully named "Complete Ingredient Mixes" but you must buy it by the case and the price is still higher per pound than Northwestern (100% malt) Malt Extracts. Al. Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1177, 07/08/93