HOMEBREW Digest #1292 Wed 08 December 1993

Digest #1291 Digest #1293

		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator

  REAL ice beer (kopek.edward)
  Snakebite (Calum T. MacNeill)
  Brigand Ale/beer aging (Spencer.W.Thomas)
  Alpha Acid extraction (Ed Hitchcock)
  Commercial Beer Matrix, Part 2/2 (npyle)
  Brain reaction to Snakebites??? ( Robert DeMillo )
  CO2 buildup during lagering phase (Patrick Casey)
  Re: Snakebite (BRUCE)
  mead address (Shirley Thompson)
  Image files (Al Gaspar)
  dopplebock vs. barleywine (Keith MacNeal  07-Dec-1993 1147)
  America OnLine (GNT_TOX_)
  Disappearing Bitterness (Mark Garetz)
  Extract, reply (ELQ1)
  Different Beers - Same Flavor (David Allison 225-5764)
  Local Chicago Shops ("Peter Brauer 312/915-6157"                )
  Is Stoelting making a magic chiller? (Tim P McNerney)
  Unsolicited Mail Order Catalogue ("Mark T. Berard")
  Noche Buena (Chris Amley - 3M Telecommunications)
  dilution (Steve Piatz)
  hop utilization/Barleywine aging/HopGoRound/hop bags/fading bitterness (korz)
  KRUSH-OFF (Jack Schmidling)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 7 Dec 93 08:04:26 -0500 From: kopek at karloff.fstrf.org (kopek.edward) Subject: REAL ice beer 07129308034200E 0016800000000 Date: 07 Dec 1993 08:03 EST From: KOPEK.EDWARD (ACTG Data Mgmt Ctr, FSTRF, Amherst, NY) To: homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com cc: KOPEK.EDWARD Subject: REAL ice beer Attach: For anyone who wants to taste a _real_ ice beer, try EKU Kulminator Urtyp Hell 28 from Germany (That's the entire name of the beer, honest!). It is concentrated by freezing as are the North American "ice" beers. But, the flavor (and alcohol) are so concentrated, I found this brew to be undrinkable, unless diluted with some lighter-bodied beer. (I never thought I'd say a beer was undrinkable, but try it yourself and let me know how you feel about it.) You should be able to find this Kulminator without too much trouble; our local supermarket carries it in the imported beer section. I guess it's actually a doppelbock in style, except for the freezing treatment. Oh, and it is reputed to have the highest alcohol content of any commercial beer. (Maybe, maybe not). I know it is around 12%, and it packs a wallop! -Ed Kopek, somewhere in Buffalo, N.Y..... "Thank goodness this morning I woke up, instead of coming to!" . Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1993 13:38:42 +0000 (GMT) From: ctmn at sabhal-mor-ostaig.ac.uk (Calum T. MacNeill) Subject: Snakebite Smolinsky spoke of his little Welsh B&B giving him a taste of Snakebite and telling him of its illegal status. I have to say that this may be the case in England and Wales but us Scots are smarter than them so we have our own legal system which does not ban this tipple. Either that or my local hasn't heard anything to the contrary! In fact it is quite common around here to order a "snakebite black" which is the half lager, half cider mix but with a dash of blackcurrant. I have to admit though that neither of these concoctions really appeal to me. On a different note I wonder if anyone could help me with the problem I have with my present batch of 'instant' homebrew. It's one of these buy your tin of wort with everything included except water and sugar. The problem is that primary fermentation went like a dream, but now that i've transfered it to my pressure barrel for secondary fermentation nothing's happening, ie no pressure build up what so ever. I've tried adding extra yeast but to no avail. Please help ASAP as this is supposed to be the main attraction of a Christmas Eve party. HELP!!!!!!!!! Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 93 09:08:45 EST From: Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu Subject: Brigand Ale/beer aging Popped the cork on a bottle of this stuff last night. Wow! Vinous, fruity, old-ale aroma, beautiful orange-gold color, creamy head, strong!, hoppy in back. Yum! This is a "Special," a style designation that means almost nothing, as far as I can tell. With an OG of 1080, it's more-or-less in the "strong, blond" category, I'd think. Jackson says it's best 3-6 months from bottling. Well, the cork on this one said it was bottled 2-90. Still good. There was some crud on the bottom of the cork, which I carefully cleaned out of the neck before drinking. Also yeast "fluffies" in the bottom. I don't know what this says about aging "on the yeast" versus filtering, but it certainly indicates that a beer can last more than a few months (which many of us already knew). Although it smelt somewhat aged, it didn't taste "old" in any negative sense. I wonder what a new bottle would taste like? =S Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 07 Dec 1993 10:38:29 -0400 From: Ed Hitchcock <ECH at ac.dal.ca> Subject: Alpha Acid extraction I have been playing with Rager's and Garetz' tables, the equation from the hops faq and the like, and it occurs to me there is something missing. I seem to recall (from the spring issue of American Brewer, I believe) that increasing the hop rate decreases utilization. Thus, not only is the utilization rate not linear with time and boil gravity, it is also not linear with hopping rate. Does anyone out there have a polynomial for this? ____________ Ed Hitchcock ech at ac.dal.ca | Oxymoron: Draft beer in bottles. | Anatomy & Neurobiology | Pleonasm: Draft beer on tap. | Dalhousie University, Halifax |___________________________________| Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 93 7:55:10 MST From: npyle at n33.stortek.com Subject: Commercial Beer Matrix, Part 2/2 Sorry for the strangeness in the Commercial Beer Matrix, Part 1. It seems something between me and the HBD added a "- " to all of the long lines starting with "----"s. I don't get it, nor do I know how to prevent it from happening to Part 2/2. To clean it up, you'll have to remove the "- " in all those lines. Hope this is useful. -Part 2/2- Boston Brewing Company, Boston, Massachusetts - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Beer Name | Fermentables | Hops | Yeast | O.G. | Comments - -------------|---------------|--------------------|---------|------|---------- - -------------|---------------|--------------------|---------|------|---------- Sam | Klages / | Tettnanger | Lager |1.052 |Flagship Adams | Harrington | Tettnang | | |Product Boston | 2-row | Hallertauer | | | Lager | Crystal 60L | Mittelfrueh | | | - -------------|---------------|--------------------|---------|------|---------- Sam | Klages / | English | Ale |1.056 | Adams | Harrington | Goldings | | | Boston | 2-row | English | | | Stock | Crystal 60L | Fuggles | | | Ale | | Saaz | | | - -------------|---------------|--------------------|---------|------|---------- Sam | Klages / | Hallertauer | Lager |1.032 | Adams | Harrington | Mittelfrueh | | | Boston | 2-row | Saaz | | | Lightship | Crystal 60L | | | | - -------------|---------------|--------------------|---------|------|---------- Sam | Klages / | Tettnanger | Lager |1.081 |First Adams | Harrington | Tettnang | | |runnings Double | 2-row | Hallertauer | | |only? Bock | Crystal 60L | Mittelfrueh | | | - -------------|---------------|--------------------|---------|------|---------- Sam | Klages / | Tettnanger | Lager |1.056 | Adams | Harrington | Tettnang | | | Octoberfest| 2-row | Hallertauer | | | | Crystal 60L | Mittelfrueh | | | - -------------|---------------|--------------------|---------|------|---------- Sam | Klages / | Tettnanger | Lager |Varies|Recipe Adams | Harrington | Tettnang | | |Varies Winter | 2-row | Hallertauer | | |Yearly Lager | Crystal 60L | Mittelfrueh | | | | | English | | | | | Goldings | | | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Anderson Valley Brewery, Booneville, California - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Beer Name | Fermentables | Hops | Yeast | O.G. | Comments - -------------|---------------|--------------------|---------|------|---------- - -------------|---------------|--------------------|---------|------|---------- Poleeko | Pale 2-row | Eroica | Ale | | Gold | Crystal 40L | Nugget | | | Light | | Northern | | | Ale | | Brewer | | | | | Cascade | | | - -------------|---------------|--------------------|---------|------|---------- Extra | Pale 2-row | Nugget | Ale | | Special | Crystal 40L | Eroica | | | Bitter | Munich malt | Northern | | | | | Brewer | | | | | Tettnang | | | - -------------|---------------|--------------------|---------|------|---------- High | Pale 2-row | Northern | | | Rollers | (60%) | Brewer | | | Wheat | Wheat malt | Mount | | | Beer | (40%) | Hood | | | - -------------|---------------|--------------------|---------|------|---------- Boont | Pale 2-row | Eroica | Ale | | Amber | Crystal 40L | Northern | | | Ale | Crystal 80L | Brewer | | | | | Willamette | | | - -------------|---------------|--------------------|---------|------|---------- Centennial | Pale 2-row | Nugget | | | | Crystal 40L | Eroica | | | | Crystal 80L | Northern | | | | Munich 40L | Brewer | | | | | Mount | | | | | Hood | | | - -------------|---------------|--------------------|---------|------|---------- Deep | Pale 2-row | Nugget | Ale | | Enders | Crystal 40L | Northern | | | Dark | Crystal 80L | Brewer | | | Porter | Chocolate malt| Willamette | | | - -------------|---------------|--------------------|---------|------|---------- Barney | Pale 2-row | Eroica | Ale | |Flagship Flats | Crystal 40L | Northern | | |Product Oatmeal | Crystal 80L | Brewer | | | Stout | Munich malt | Cascade | | | | Chocolate malt| | | | | Wheat malt | | | | | Roasted barley| | | | | Oats | | | | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Anchor Brewing Company, San Francisco, California - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Beer Name | Fermentables | Hops | Yeast | O.G. | Comments - -------------|---------------|--------------------|---------|------|---------- - -------------|---------------|--------------------|---------|------|---------- Anchor | Pale 2-row | Northern | Lager |1.050 |Flagship Steam | Crystal | Brewer (US?) |(Wyeast | |Product | | | Calif. | |Fermented | | | lager?) | |at 55F | | | | |Lagered | | | | |at 50F | | | | |33 IBU | | | | |Kraeusened | | | | |3.9% ABW - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Norm Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 93 10:04:59 -0500 From: demillo at juliet.ll.mit.edu ( Robert DeMillo ) Subject: Brain reaction to Snakebites??? > Date: 6 Dec 93 07:25:00 EST > From: "DAVE SMOLINSKY" <SMOLINSKY at merlin.ndhm.gtegsc.com> > Subject: Snakebite > > Hi all, > >Back in September I was in Penryhndeudraeth, Wales in the U.K... >after hours I was chatting with the bartender and he told me about a >concoction pubs used to make, but is now illegal. It was called a *Snakebite*. >It was a combination of equal parts of a lager and a cider (I forget what the >lager was, possibly Tetley's[??], but the cider was Strongbow). The reason it >was outlawed was because of some chemical reaction that occured that had a not >so nice effect on brain cells. Anyone ever heard of this or know what it does >to people's brains?? You've *got* to be kidding me. This sounds like an "Old Wives' Tale" made into law. "Snakebites" are pretty common over here in brewpubs (at least in the Boston area), and are made from a strong lager and a cider, as the poster states. Usually the lager is the lager-of-the-house, and the cider is whatever is available. (At least one brewpub in Boston makes its own cider: Boston Beer Works.) If there is a chemical reaction that has a bad effect on people's brain cells, I haven't KnOwitist iT, aNd eYe drINCK a lT of snAkebytes.... - -- - Rob DeMillo | Internet: demillo at juliet.ll.mit.edu MIT Lincoln Lab | America Online: exgalileo at aol.com Weather Sensing - Group 43 | Reality: 617-981-2105 (office) "Operation Goofy now in effect!" --- Tom Servo, "Gamera vs. Gaos," Mystery Science Theater 3000 Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 93 10:55:30 EST From: pacasey at lexmark.com (Patrick Casey) Subject: CO2 buildup during lagering phase Hi. When I made my first and only lager this fall, I had a problem at bottling time -- the beer foamed a lot when I filled the warm bottles and later the beer had a way too high level of carbonation. Here's what I figure was going on: At the lager fermentation temps, the CO2 produced by the yeast tended to stay in solution rather than come out of solution like it does with my ales at ale fermentation temperatures. Since I bottled the beer right out of the fridge after a 2 week primary and 2 week secondary/lager phase, a lot of CO2 was still dissolved in the beer. This time I think I'll bring the beer out of the fridge a day or two before bottling to let most of the CO2 come out of solution. Seems like I read in Noonan's book that he says the CO2 can be brought out of solution by siphoning the cold beer straight from the fridge into a bottling bucket and then rocking the bucket to coax the CO2 out of the beer. What do you folks do? Thanks in advance, Patrick Patrick A. Casey pacasey at lexmark.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1993 08:19 PST From: BRUCE at ARVAX.Syntex.Com Subject: Re: Snakebite I believe you Welsh friend was spinning you a bit of a yarn with that brain cell story.... (I have always been faxcinated by Wales, BTW...) However, snakebites are definitely EVIL!! I have strayed to the DARK SIDE more times than I care to (or can...) remember. Many Pubs here in the bay area have Dry Blackthorn Hard Cider on tap, and are very familiar with snakebites. I was introduced to them at Jonathan's Roadhouse Pub in Tahoe City while on a ski trip, and, ever since, I have been hooked. If a place has the cider on tap, I know automatically what I'm going to order. They're a little sweet with some of the milder lagers, so I suggest trying it with Pilsener Urquell or one of the more robust ales. They're also pretty good with Guiness, believe it or not! I usually get them with the likes of Red Hook or Bass. With regard to the brain cell thing, I simply cannot believe that it was outlawed for killing brain cells. We all know what does that, and it has nothing to do with a reaction between cider and beer... These wonderful concoctions do, however have a tendency to sneak up on you and bite your behind! They are tasty, go down smooth, and have quite a kick. I don't know what the alcohol content of the cider is, but I have ended up more inebriated than I have intended on several occasions. I suggest you search out a pub that has a dry cider on tap, and have them pull a few snakebites for you. But make sure you have a ride home if you're there past closing like you were in Wales. Enjoy! Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 07 Dec 93 09:28:44 MST From: Shirley Thompson <DUSTHOMP at idbsu.idbsu.edu> Subject: mead address In response to Coyote, there is a mead digest at "mead-lovers-request@ ekletex.c om". Any chance of getting your Loganberry mead recipe? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Here's to it and to it again, if you don't do it, when you get to it, you may never get to it to do it again... -----------------------+-----------------------+------------------------- Shirley Mae Thompson | 1910 University Drive | Cren: DUSTHOMP at IDBSU User Service Center | Boise, Idaho 83725 | Internet: Boise State University | (208) 385-4357 | dusthomp at idbsu.idbsu.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 07 Dec 93 10:46:13 CST From: Al Gaspar <gaspar at STL-17SIMA.ARMY.MIL> Subject: Image files What do I need to look at the .jpg files in the images directory at the homebrew archive site? Can the be converted to other formats? I'd love to look at some of these. Thanks for the help. Cheers-- Al - -- Al Gaspar <gaspar at stl-17sima.army.mil> USAMC SIMA, ATTN: AMXSI-TTC, 1222 Spruce St., St. Louis, MO 63103-2834 COMMERCIAL: (314) 331-4354 AUTOVON: 555-4354 relay1.uu.net!stl-17sima.army.mil!gaspar Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 93 11:49:53 EST From: Keith MacNeal 07-Dec-1993 1147 <macneal at pate.enet.dec.com> Subject: dopplebock vs. barleywine Someone asked if dopplebocks are barleywines. The answer is, no there are differences between the two. The most basic difference being that a dopplebock is a lager and a barleywine is an ale. Lagers are brewed and aged at lower temperatures than ales. Dopplebocks are a high alcohol version of lager while barleywines are high alcohol versions of ale. Barleywines are generally higher in alcohol content than dopplebocks (a tripplebock might be in barleywine range). Keith MacNeal Digital Equipment Corp. Hudson, MA Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 93 12:29 EST From: <GNT_TOX_%ALLOY.BITNET at PUCC.PRINCETON.EDU> Subject: America OnLine While reading the brewing online text file I noticed that there was no e-mail address given for the author, so I will post the info here. There is a brewing forum on America OnLine in the "Wine and Dine" section. They keywork "Wine" will get you there. We have about 10 message bases and coming soon will be an interactive database containing HBD. America OnLine currently costs $9.95 for the first four hours of the month, and $3.95 for each additional hour. It's at 2400 baud, but going to 9600 with a month or two. Internet FTP access, UseNet, gopher, and archie access will all be coming before the end of the year. Internet E-Mail gateway already exists. I would be happy to get a detailed description of the message bases if anyone is interested.. I also have a text file conatining AOL recipes. I can u/l the file to the archive site on request. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 93 10:34:17 PST From: Mark Garetz <mgaretz at hoptech.com> Subject: Disappearing Bitterness Stephen Dillinger writes: >The basic "problem" is that the perceived bitterness in my bottled beers seems >to fade rather quickly (over a period of weeks). A beer that is extremely >bitter one week, is perfect the next, and a couple of weeks later the >bitterness is very subdued. I suspect what is happenning is that the iso-alpha acids (responsible for the bitterness) are dropping out with the yeast (Yeast adsorbs iso-alphas). Now if you say "Well my beer is clear when I perceive it to be bitter, so the yeast has already dropped out," I would say that reasonably clear appearing beer can still have lots of yeast suspended in it. Try this experiment: Shake up the beer to re-disperse the yeast and then taste it. Yes it will be yeasty, but I'll bet the bitterness returns. Solutions? Increase your hopping rate and let the beer settle a bit more before bottling. And/or use a more flocculent yeast strain. I haven't tried it yet myself, but the new Wyeast 1968 Special London Ale is reported to be highly flocculent. Mark Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 93 10:03:20 PST From: ELQ1%Maint%HBPP at cts27.comp.pge.com Subject: Extract, reply In HBD#1289 Larry asks about getting all the extract from pouchs. I use _Trinity Malt Works_, It comes in 6 lb bags that I put in to a sink of hot water to soften. It really flows smooth and is easy to get all the good stuff. I stick the box and all on top of my wood stove when I start the 5 gal. of water to boil and turn the box several times and I get very liquid malt. Michael Barre, my home address is; 6859 Eggert Rd. Eureka, Ca. 95503 707-444-8659 Ed Quier. ElQ1 at MAINT at HBPP Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 07 Dec 1993 11:18:00 -0800 (PST) From: David Allison 225-5764 <ALLISON.DAVID at A1GW.GENE.COM> Subject: Different Beers - Same Flavor I am having a problem that perhaps you folks out there in HBD-land could help me with. In short (hopefully), my last two brews came out with the same flavor, but I used different ingredients. First brew - 8# US 2-row 1# US 6-row 1# rye flake Hops: approx. 45 IBU (don't have varieties on hand) Yeast: Wyeast - Calif. Lager Yeast Second brew - 9# British 2-row 1# Crystal 40L Hops: approx. 45 IBU (don't have varieties on hand) Yeast: Wyeast - Chico Ale Yeast In both brews, I used a 1400 mL yeast starter (very active) and fermentation started in about 5 hours. Previously, I had used only only 500 mL starters, with fermentation in 24 hours. The problem is that both beers have a pronounced flavor component to them - -- sort of a pear/banana-like aroma and taste (IMO, but it is hard for me to judge). At about 40 hours of fermentation, the second brew went from having a medium-amber color with large aggregates circulating around to a light-amber color with a lot of small particles circulating. The fermentation was very active during this entire period. Is this characteristic of these yeasts or did something happen to the yeast during fermentation? Any ideas? If I could tell the difference between phenols, esters, aldehydes, ketones, long-chain alcohols, etc. - I guess I could troubleshoot the problem better. But my beer judging needs to improved. (another story) -- BTW, the beers are very drinkable, I just wasn't looking for that flavor. Thanks. David (allison2 at gene.com) Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 07 Dec 93 14:15 CST From: "Peter Brauer 312/915-6157" <$W$PR42%LUCCPUA.BITNET at UICVM.UIC.EDU> Subject: Local Chicago Shops Is there a list out there anywhere of Chicago areas supply houses? I only know about my brewmaster, "Brewin' Beer" out by O'Hare. I like his shop but am always willing to look at something new. Thanks. . Also, I am sure that I already missed this being new to this net, but has anyone tried "Clear Beer?" My family in Minnesota sent me samples when I told them I was making my own because they thought it was neat. I can't even give this junk away. One would think that they would assum e that I only liked something with flavor, body, taste, etc. but there is no accounting for family. While I can't in good concience throw it away (there are people in China going to bed sober after all) but i can't stomach the junk. Anyone else tried it? Are they still making it or did this particular brewery suffer a timely fire? Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 93 13:51:54 PST From: tpm at wdl.loral.com (Tim P McNerney) Subject: Is Stoelting making a magic chiller? I got this flyer from Stoelting which makes the following claims for its wort chiller: Chills 5 gallons of wort from 210F to 56F in 15 minutes at .33 GPM. So basically, 5 gallons of water (.33 * 15) to chill 5 gallons of wort from 210F to 56F. It seems to me that if you were able to obtain perfect heat transfer and the water you were using was 32F, the best you could hope to get is 121F. Am I missing something here? Here is the rest of the info: Wort chiller w/ stainless steel housing. Counterflow type. Chill rate: 5 gal. of wort from 210F to 56F in 15 minutes at .33 GPM. 3/8" ID stainless steel wort line wrapped with copper fins. Finned tube assembly centered in 3/4" cold water copper line. 8.5" high x 11.25" diameter. ________________________________ - --Tim McNerney - --Loral Western Development Labs - --(408) 473-4748 - --tpm at wdl.loral.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 07 Dec 1993 12:22:23 EST From: "Mark T. Berard" <mtberard at dow.com> Subject: Unsolicited Mail Order Catalogue Hello HBDer's, I have a digest (etiquette?) question. Today I received at work a mail order homebrew supply catalogue. I don't recall asking anyone to send this to me, and if I had, I'm sure I would have asked them to send it to my home address. While I appreciate getting this sort of thing, I would want to get it at home! It would appear that they pulled my address from my sig from a couple of recent postings to HBD. While I consider this improper, I'm not sure if it is considered a breech of NET etiquette. I would have prefered e-mail asking if I wanted the catalogue. By including my snail mail address in my sig, am I asking for this sort of thing? Could some NET "Miss Manners" please clue me in to proper behavior in this regard? Until then, just call me: Mark "no sig" B. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1993 17:00:10 -0600 From: ccamley at mmm.com (Chris Amley - 3M Telecommunications) Subject: Noche Buena In HBD 1289 Dr. Fix asks for a polite way to get across the fact that the "new" Noche Buena differs from the old in alcohol, color, and bitterness. It sounds to me like it's not the same beer, and that's what SW Brewing News should say: it's not the same beer. Any published note on this beer should also raise the question: is it ethical to call the new beer by the old name? Of course, the same note should point out the facts of the new beer. NB use to be available in Southern California around the end of the year and it seems a real shame that some people will be misled by this practice, especially given the rarity of Vienna-style brews. Chris Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 93 22:01:20 CST From: piatz at tamarack.cray.com (Steve Piatz) Subject: dilution In HBD 1291 Spencer.W.Thomas writes: > > Not sure what you want. You mean "what happens if I add 1 gallon of > water to 4 gallons of 1.040 wort?" Almost right formula: > 1.040 wort = 40 "points/gallon" = 160 "points" in 4 gallons > 160 points/5 gallons = 32 points/gallon = 1.032 wort > > To do it right, you first convert from gravity to degrees Plato. Fix > posted a cubic approximation to the tables recently. This gives you > %sugar (by weight as sucrose) (1 deg Plato = 1% sugar w/w). Multiply > by the mass of the solution (4 gallons * ???lbs/gal * 1.040) to get > the mass of sugar. Add your gallon of water, and compute the mass > of the new solution (original mass + mass of 1 gallon of water (don't > forget to temperature compensate)). Then compute the percentage of > sugar in the new solution (100 * original sugar mass / solution mass). > Finally, convert back to S.G. using the Plato table (or formula). > > A close approximation to deg Plato is to divide the "points" by 4. > But if you use that, you might as well use the simple method in the > first paragraph. > > I haven't compared this to Steve Piatz's table, but his code looks > like my first method. > To incorporate Spencer's concern for using the more accurate degrees Plato let's use the following: phys_con = pounds/gallon of water v = original volume of wort og = original specific gravity dilution = percent of original volume added as water Assume that the wort and the dilution water are both at the same temperature. percent_sugar = sg2plato(og) mass_sugar = percent_sugar * v * phys_con * og original_mass = v * phys_con * og new_mass = original_mass + (dilution * v * phys_con) new_percent_sugar = mass_sugar / new_mass Which is: (percent_sugar * v * phys_con * og) _____________________________________________ (v * phys_con * og + dilution * v * phys_con) Which simplifies to: = (percent_sugar * og) / (og + dilution) Which gives: fg = plato2sg((percent_sugar * og) / (og + dilution)) After doing all this the resulting table is identical to the more simplistic approach. The program follows, the #if SIMPLE determines which approach to use. #include <stdio.h> #define NUM_PERCENT 10 /* number of columns */ #define NUM_GRAVITY 30 /* number of rows */ #define PERCENT_STEP 0.05 /* percentage per column */ #define GRAVITY_STEP 0.005 /* gravity per row */ #define INITIAL_GRAVITY 1.010 /* gravity for first row */ #define INITIAL_PERCENT PERCENT_STEP /* percentage for first column */ double sg2plato (sg) double sg; { return 259.0 - (259.0 / sg); } double plato2sg(p) double p; { return -259.0 / (p - 259.0); } main () { int i; int j; double og, fg; double dilution; printf (" | Dilution By\n"); printf (" O.G. | "); for (j = 0; j < NUM_PERCENT; j++) printf (" %3.0f%% ", 100.0 * PERCENT_STEP * (1 + j)); printf ("\n"); printf ("-------|-"); for (j = 0; j < NUM_PERCENT; j++) printf ("-------"); printf ("\n"); og = INITIAL_GRAVITY - GRAVITY_STEP; for (i = 0; i < NUM_GRAVITY; i++) { og += GRAVITY_STEP; printf ("%6.3f | ", og); dilution = INITIAL_PERCENT - PERCENT_STEP; for (j = 0; j < NUM_PERCENT; j++) { dilution += PERCENT_STEP; #if SIMPLE fg = (og + dilution) / (1.0 + dilution); #else fg = plato2sg(sg2plato(og) * og / (og + dilution)); #endif printf ("%6.3f ", fg); } printf ("\n"); } exit (); } Steve Piatz Cray Research, Inc. steve.piatz at cray.com 655F Lone Oak Drive 612-683-5268 Eagan, MN 55121 Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 93 14:57 CST From: korz at iepubj.att.com Subject: hop utilization/Barleywine aging/HopGoRound/hop bags/fading bitterness Robert writes: >The unpredictability of results when hopping may be due more to the >isomerization of the hops than hop utilization. Yes, but isomerization is one of the many factors that collectively combine to result in a number we call "hop utilization." I disagree that it is unpredictable... I feel that for a given system, one can determine the hop utilization as a function of boil time and other factors. I say "for a given system" because among other things, kettle geometry, whether or not you use a hop bag, and heat source intensity (boil vigor) affect hop utilization. I don't know how much each of these factors, or which ones of them are significant, but for a given system you can figure out a set of formulas that will give you predictable bittering. >Isomerization is an altering >of the molecular structure of the substance in hops that imparts bitterness >to beer. It is the isomerized molecules that give the bitterness. Only a >fraction of the hops are isomerized during the boil (around 25% max) and >the degree of isomerization is directly proportional to the length of time the >hops are in the boil. Maximum isomerization occurs at around 45 min. of >exposure to the boil. After one hour isomerization actually begins to reverse! >Perhaps this explains why Andy's 90 min. boil was not as bitter as expected. Could you send me your reference for this... I'd like to read more about it. I've read many articles that contradict this assertion. Thanks. >So, actual IBU's can not be calculated without taking %Isomerization into >account. Since learning this information from the master brewer at a local >contract brewery, my beers have been much more predictable in terms of >bitterness and better overall. I believe this is because I now brew to a >specific target bitterness (based on style). What all the formulas (the ones Robert posted as well as Ragers, etc.) calculate are an approximation for the IBUs in the finished product, not really what gets into the wort. Here's an excerpt from a talk by Bob Foster (Coors Brewing Co) talk at the Siebel Institute of Technology: PROCESS UTILIZATION OF ALPHA ACIDS Formula %U = IBU(ppm)/AA added(ppm) * 100 ---------------------------------- Kettle Utilization: (EG.) %U = 45IBU(ppm)/92.4 AA added(ppm) * 100 %U = (0.4870) * 100 = 48.7% Fermenter Drop (EG.) %U = 25IBU(ppm)/92.4 AA added(ppm) * 100 RUH Drop: %U = (0.2706) * 100 = 27.1% Lager Drop: (EG.) %U = 23.5IBU(ppm)/92.4 AA added(ppm) * 100 %U = (0.2543) * 100 = 23.4% Blending (30% H2O): (EG.) 23.5IBU * 0.70 = 16.5 IBU %U = 16.5 IBU(ppm)/92.4 AA added(ppm) * 100 %U = (0.1786) * 100 = 17.9% Overall Utilization 16.5IBU - 1.0 IBU loss = 15.5IBU (packaged beer): %U = 15.5 IBU(ppm)/92.4 AA added(ppm) * 100 %U = (0.1678) * 100 = 16.8% Confusing? Yes, I agree, and I'm not sure if the numbers were actuals (measured) or if they were just for example's sake, so we can only take this information with a grain of salt. However, if we assume that the numbers are in the ballpark for a real system (granted, Coors' 650bbl system), then there are a lot more significant factors than just percent isomerization. ************* Jim writes: >> yeast, or champagne/wine yeasts. Aged 6 months to a year. >Well, Bigfoot is not aged like this, and I dont age mine either. It all >depends on your fermentation, if you properly attenuate the beer, the >aging time is greatly reduced. If you bottle at 1.030, it will need >considerable time to age, but may never be as good as one bottled at 1.020. >My latest is great at brew day + 10 weeks, or keg day + 8 weeks. It was >darn good at 3 weeks. I have wondered about this. I bought a sixpack of Bigfoot back in `91 from a store that is notorious for poor handling. The bottlecap said 1990. I tried one immediately and it was harsh and undrinkable. Very unpleasant. It tasted like it was very highly alcoholic but not a smooth, warming ethyl alcohol. Knowing that high-alchol beers often require aging (Samiclaus is aged 1 year before distribution), I put the beer aside in a cool crawlspace and forgot about it. Six months later, I tried another bottle -- better, but still harsh. A year after I bought it, I finally tried the third bottle: nectar! The harshness smoothed out wonderfully and it had a very interesting complexity of estery aromas and flavors over a perfectly balanced malt/bitterness/alcohol base. I have two bottles left right now, and I regret that I did not buy more. When the 1992 Bigfoot came out, I bought a case, this time from a better store. I tried a bottle immediately, expecting the harshness, but it was not there! I know that SN has been changing their procedures (and maybe also their recipes) over the years and perhaps they have reduced the OG or the fermentation temperature or something. The beer seemed more alcoholic than the 1990 version, but it was all the smooth, warming ethanol flavor. Comments? ************** Norm writes: >Until something big comes along to straighten out the mess, I'll use Rager's >utilization numbers and formula. Why? Because it is very widely used in the >homebrew community, making for a good point of reference. If someone tells me >a beer has 37 IBU, and I know (maybe I have to assume) they are using Rager's >numbers, I have a reference point to use in trying to duplicate it. Other >adjustments/utilization tables may be more accurate, but the comparisons are >what's important to me. I tend to agree. I recently bought "Dr. Bob Technical's Hop-Go-Round" a hop version of the Wheel of Beer. I used it last night to compare my Rager-derived numbers with the Hop-Go-Round. For a 60 minute boil in a 1081 wort, they were almost identical, but for a 15 minute boil the H-G-R said 6 IBU where my Rager-derived numbers said 3 IBU! I think that the H-G-R is much too optimistic at the lower end of the utilization curve. I plan to tape my own scale over the existing utilization scale on the back of the H-G-R. ******** Further, Norm writes: >I have had similar problems, Dion. My course of corrective action: use whole >hops whenever possible and always put the hops in a hop bag. Pellets are >terrible for this problem, and the hop bag will help even with pellets. I >would like to hear how others deal with clogging in the kettle. I add 10% to Rager's numbers when I use a hop bag (which is always). *********** Steve writes: >The basic "problem" is that the perceived bitterness in my bottled beers seems >to fade rather quickly (over a period of weeks). A beer that is extremely >bitter one week, is perfect the next, and a couple of weeks later the >bitterness is very subdued. Anytime someone reports something hop-related is good for a while and then turns bad after a while in the bottle, I suspect oxygen is the culprit. I'm not sure exactly how or why, but I would recommend that you evaluate your processes and see if you may be introducing oxygen while the wort is still hot. Another thing is that perhaps it is not bitterness that you are perceiving. Perhaps it is tannin astringency which *does* go away after a while. Perhaps you are extracting a lot of tannins from your grain and you are underhopping -- while the tannin astringency is still there, the beer tastes rather balanced -- when it fades, the beer tastes too malty. Could this be the problem? Al. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 93 00:16 CST From: arf at mcs.com (Jack Schmidling) Subject: KRUSH-OFF >From: STROUD%GAIA at leia.polaroid.com >Subject: Wort Processor Krush-Off: Part II >1) The Knurly GlattMill - Powered by a normal household drill, this mill crushed the malt in an impressive 26 sec., nearly as fast as the Schmidling MaltMill (21 sec) in our original Krush-Off. Clearly, a mill that is more than twice as large should demonstrate a significantly higher throughput at a given rpm than what you have described. This test is only valid if they are both run at exactly the same speed and no mention of the RPM was made. It should further be noted that the MM as shipped is set up for hand cranking and the grain guides provide a restricted flow to assure ease of cranking with the very large rollers. To miximize throughput when motorized, the grain guides can be trimmed to provide a larger hole that will feed the grain as fast as the 10" rollers will take them. I have a microbrewery customer that reports a throughput of 17 lbs per minute on his MALTMILL. That's 3.5 secs per lb, roughly 4 times the rate reported for the Glatt. >From: hollen at megatek.com (Dion Hollenbeck) >Subject: Wort boiler screen > The end of the nipple is covered with a coarse screen. I have no idea why it did not plug up the first two times, but did this time. You were lucky. If the screen is only as large as the diameter or the nipple, all it takes is one petal of a hop flower to clog it. >Here are my questions. If you are using a Chore Girl or an EasyMasher, since both of them are just screens, why do they not plug up? The EM screen is a 6" x 3/8" cylinder and needs far less luck to remain clear. js Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1292, 12/08/93