HOMEBREW Digest #1373 Wed 16 March 1994

Digest #1372 Digest #1374

		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor

  More ice beer absurdity (GONTAREK)
  IBU's ("Anderso_A")
  Canning Wort ("Jeff M. Michalski, MD")
  3 Tower all grain system (Jim_Merrill)
  Maple Wheat Beer (Jay Moser)
  Lactic Acid from Yogurt Culture? (Scott Barrett)
  Calculating AA in home grwon hops (Robert Schultz)
  Re: Oxygen & open fermenters (Jim Busch)
  Hop Vines (Rich Larsen)
  Re: converted keg, Metal Fusion burner (Dion Hollenbeck)
  AHA funding for projects? (Bob Jones)
  RE: extract recipes copies for popular beers (taylor)
  Fermentation _too_ fast?  Problem? (Brian Klimowski)
  Re: First Batch Paranoia, PsuedoEuroNewbieWannabe ("Palmer.John")
  Hop Planting/ Capper Buster/ Storing Wort (COYOTE)
  Hop utalization / Canning Wort (Lee=A.=Menegoni)
  FAQ: Stuck fermentation... (Christopher) <cwjones at microsoft.com>
  Stirring and SG measurements (Spencer.W.Thomas)
  What have I brewed?? (Spencer.W.Thomas)
  Starter culture (GNT_TOX_)
  Whiff of Banana (rprice)
  iodophor use/Sour Belgians/low OG/Dayton thermostat (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
  hop utilization/oxidized kraeusen... NOT (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
  Re: #1(2) Homebrew Digest #13... (budinski1)
  Re:  Broken bottle when capping! (Steve Christiansen)
  Finny thingies for cooling hot wort (Lee Bertagnolli)
  RE: Floating Thermometers in HBD #1372 (Kelvin Kapteyn)
  Recirculating Pumps ("Joe Stone")
  Hop Utilization vs. S.G. (Steve Daniel)
  Home kegging system ("Corey Janecky")
  Thomas Hardy Ale recipe wanted (Troy Downing)
  Alabama Home Brewing ("Charles S. Jackson")

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 15 Mar 1994 7:35:09 -0500 (EST) From: GONTAREK at FCRFV1.NCIFCRF.GOV Subject: More ice beer absurdity Hi, fellow brewers. While watching TV late Saturday night, I saw what I thought was a joke, but in fact it turned out to be a real commercial. It was for "Miller Lite Ice" Beer...I laughed so hard I almost cried! What's next? I can see it now..."Miller Genuine Dry Ice Draft Reserve". What do you think about a Dry Ice beer? "Pop it open, and watch it sublime" would be a good ad for it. Or how 'bout "New Miller Dry Ice: Don't put your lips on the bottle!". Anyway, I thought that I would share this with you. See Ya! Rick Gontarek gontarek at ncifcrf.gov Return to table of contents
Date: 15 Mar 94 07:58:00 EST From: "Anderso_A" <Anderso_A at hq.navsea.navy.mil> Subject: IBU's The following attachments were included with this message: __________________________________________________________________ TYPE : FILE NAME : MARK __________________________________________________________________ Mark G. writes: >I never, ever stated that wort gravity didn't have an effect. My >point was that wort gravity didn't matter *in the boil*, but did >matter greatly *during fermentation*. I too, like Glenn, Spencer, >Rager, most homebrewers and even a lot of the professional beer >scientists believed that boil gravity did matter. As Glenn >alludes to, it seems obvious. I set out to examine the brewing >research, not to prove the boil gravity effect wrong, but simply >to see if Rager's correction factor was right. [SNIP, SNIP] >I seem to have confused everybody with my original posts on this >subject, so lets be perfectly clear here: >Wort gravity *does* have an effect. A big one. But the gravity >during the boil is not what matters, it is the gravity during >fermentation. As I see it, your statement means little or no change to an all-grain brewer but significant change for an extract brewer. If I'm brewing an extract Pale Ale with an OG around 1.044, then the gravity of my wort would be about 1.090. I then double the volume with pre-boiled/chilled tap water to lower the OG down to the desired gravity. My all-grain beers start at 6 to 7 gallons & boil down to 5 gallons. When calculating my IBU's I would add hops based upon a gravity of 1.090 for the extract beer while the all- grain beer would get hops based on a 1.040 OG. The net result being the extract beer uses more hops than the all-grain beer. If I understand correctly what you posted, then my extract beers are being too heavily hopped. Is this correct? Does anyone else have empirical evidence to support or counter this? Thanks, Andy Anderson Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 94 07:18:53 -0500 From: "Jeff M. Michalski, MD" <michalski_jm at rophys.wustl.edu> Subject: Canning Wort Recently someone asked about the need for pressure canning wort for future yeast starters. The question came up recently at our monthly meeting of the St. Louis Brews. We had the good fortune of having the omniscient Dave Miller in attendance on that particular day! According to Dave: Hot water canning (no pressure) will kill all bacterial beer pathogens. IT WILL NOT KILL WILD YEASTS! Wild yeasts UNCOMMONLY plague the homebrewer. For most circumstances, pressure canning is "overkill". If you have a wild yeast infection, it will become apparent in your canning jars within a week or so by evidence of active fermentation in the wort. Storage of the canned wort can take place at room temperature. If you have evidence of fermentation in the jars don't use it. Consider pressure canning next time. Hope this helps. JEFF M. MICHALSKI michalski_jm at rophys.wustl.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 94 8:27 EST From: Jim_Merrill at vos.stratus.com Subject: 3 Tower all grain system I am attempting to enter the all grain world via the three tower, gravity fed concept. I'm currently doing partials. What is the best way to implement a mashing vessel using a 15.5 SS keg. The three options I am considering are: 1) False Stainless Steel bottom 2) A copper ring that sits in the bottom and has small slits in it. 3) An "Easy Masher" type installation with a screen. I will be using propane type cookers for a heat source and I am concerned about scorching. Should I not be adding heat to maintain temp or during mashout ? How do people do step infusion with a propane cooker ? What is the maximum BTU rating I should look for when buying a cooker, what is the minimum. When using a false bottom, should you try to minimize the area under the SS plate by using a plate that rests in the bottom curved portion of the keg? (I have found some 10" SS dinner plates in a camping store for $4 each) Any information would be helpful. TIA Jim Merrill Jim_Merrill at vos.stratus.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 1994 08:39:51 From: jdm at cherry-semi.com (Jay Moser) Subject: Maple Wheat Beer A fellow homebrewer here in Rhode Island has made a maple wheat beer. He bought a wheat beer kit (could not remember the specific kit) and only used 3 gal of maple sap. He boiled the wort with about 2 gal of tap water and after chilling the wort added approximately 3 gal of sterilized but not reduced maple sap (to make 5 gal). He then fermented as usual. The results were excellent. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 1994 09:13:51 -0500 From: scott at partech.com (Scott Barrett) Subject: Lactic Acid from Yogurt Culture? While eating a carton of yogurt the other day, I noticed that the active culture was listed as Lactobacillus acidophilus (sp?). Can this be used to produce an acid mash in the same manner as L. delbrueckii? I checked the yogurt-making entry in the Joy of Cooking and found the temperature recommendations similar to those in the Zymurgy article. Am I nuts? Yours in brewing, Scott Barrett scott at partech.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 1994 08:58:43 -0600 (CST) From: Robert Schultz <Robert.Schultz at usask.ca> Subject: Calculating AA in home grwon hops Can anyone detail the procedure to determine the alpha acid in home grown hops? I am contemplating growing some this year (nice southern exposure, etc.), but would like to know if it is feasible to calculate the AA on the quantities one could expect from a few plants. Rob. p.s. I won't be planting for a few days yet, as there is still 2 feet of snow in my back yard. Oh the joys of living in the 'frozen north.' ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Saskatoon Berry Brewers, Saskatoon, Saskatchewan No Dues, Just Brews .... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Robert.Schultz at usask.ca ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 1994 10:28:32 -0500 (EST) From: Jim Busch <busch at daacdev1.stx.com> Subject: Re: Oxygen & open fermenters Norm writes: > Subject: Wort Gravity vs. Hop Utilization > > Mark Garetz restates his position that boil gravity does not affect alpha > acid utilization. I remain open-minded about it all, but will offer > something to think about. Most homebrewers report that when they go to > full-volume boils, the beer became overhopped. This was certainly true with > me, although at the time I didn't know what an IBU was. I assumed that the > lower boil gravity (remember that the fermentation gravity didn't change) was > the reason. As most things here in the HBD, this is not scientific data, but > anecdotal evidence. It is also a small set of data (I know a little about > the importance of sample size). > > Also, the point about the iso-alpha acids oxidizing in the head has me a > little confused. We've been told forever that one of the affects of > fermentation is to push out the oxygen in the headspace of the fermenter. I > wouldn't expect much oxygen to be in the headspace for this process to > happen. Am I off? I could see this happening more in an open fermenter, > which are still used commercially in places. Perhaps the research was based > on this type of fermenter. I think it is intuitively obvious that the higher OG of a ferment will tend to "scrub" more hop character out of a beer. Hop constituants also tend to adhere to yeast, so yeast quantity and removal (filtering) effect hop character. Im still on the fence as to the actual boil gravity effects, but I agree with Norm that the super concentrated extract brewer tends to have more problems developing the same hop character. As for open fermenters and oxygen, I say it doesnt matter, provided a adequate quantity of healthy yeast is pitched. Now, I dont let my beer sit in the open fermenter long after it is done fermenting, I rack within a few days of the removal of the yeast head. And I dry hop in my primary. Best, Jim Busch (looking forward to reading Marks book) Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 1994 09:35:51 -0600 (CST) From: Rich Larsen <richl at access1.speedway.net> Subject: Hop Vines A Simple question about hops, as the growing season is about upon us. I planted a vine of Liberty last year. It attained a whopping 10 feet with no cones. I understand this to be normal for the first years growth. My question is, how many shoots should I allow to grow this year. Last year I only let one go. email is fine, unless you think the rest of the world would benefit from it. TIA => Rich Rich Larsen (708) 388-3514 The Blind Dog Brewery "HomeBrewPub", Midlothian, IL "I never drink... Wine." Bela Lugosi Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 94 07:48:02 PST From: hollen at megatek.com (Dion Hollenbeck) Subject: Re: converted keg, Metal Fusion burner >>>>> "KERRY" == KERRY WILSON <HWCEMC2.KWILSON at HW1.CAHWNET.GOV> writes: KERRY> I have a SS keg convereted kettle. Does any have any KERRY> suggestion as to the distance a 170,000 btu burner should be KERRY> from the bottom of the pot? 3 or 4 inches?? or suggestions to KERRY> determine correct distance. KERRY> Metal Fusion of Kenner, LA sell a 170,000 btu burner for $15.50 FOB KERRY> Kenner. 1-800-783-3885 The model # for the burner is "WKAf 1". KERRY> I have no connection to this company except being a happy customer. If this is the ring burner from the Kamp Kooker stove that they sell, here is how mine is set up. The Kamp Kooker has the burner in a wind shroud about 1" below the top of the shroud, then the grid for setting pots on which is also about 1" deep. With my kettle sitting on top of that, the ring on the bottom of the kettle keeps it another inch or two further off. So the bottom line is 3 to 4 inches from the flame for the lowest portion of the kettle bottom. A tip for your boiling arrangement. I have two converted keg kettles, one for sparge water and one for wort boiling. Rather that sit the first kettle on the burner and then have to move it, I made a platform out of wood, sort of like a workbench without any top and then welded up two kettle "holders" out of angle iron. The holders sit on the wood legs and hold the kettles and I added legs to the burner to make it sit about 1/2" below the holders so that I can just move the burner back and forth between the kettles without having to lift the kettles. I was able to buy the Kamp Kooker stove from Cabela's Sporting Outfitters for $49. Thay have an 800 number, but I don't have it with me. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 1994 07:53:13 +0800 From: bjones at novax.llnl.gov (Bob Jones) Subject: AHA funding for projects? >It seems to me the AHA could fund work like this. The cash outlay would >be minimal and the results could be very beneficial. Maybe they could >take time out from printing Charlie Papazian masks and "I wish this were >my homebrew" coffee mugs. Naah, what was I thinking? > >Joel Birkeland >Motorola SPS I proposed that very thing about 2 years ago. It all started over a discussion with George Fix about increasing the technical content of the conference and the magazine led him suggesting this to the AHA board of directors. As far as I can tell, nothing ever came of the idea. With Brewing Techniques now the mag for technical info and Zymurgy firmly settled into its nich, I don't think you'll see anything from the AHA. Now as for moneys to do this type of research? It is out there. You do need to write a proposal and submit it to some of the mega breweries. They have quite a large amount of money for basic research I'm told. Now you got the money, so you go out and find a university with some equipment and a grad student who likes beer. Now all you need is the time! Thats the hard part to come by. Bob Jones bjones at novax.llnl.gov Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 94 11:04:58 EST From: taylor at e5sf.hweng.syr.ge.com (taylor) Subject: RE: extract recipes copies for popular beers In yesterdays digest I should have mentioned that all these recipes were for a 60 minute boil.....I guess there was some questions about that. Please make the changes to you recipes......Todd Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 1994 09:04:14 -0700 (MST) From: Brian Klimowski <klimowski at marten.UWYO.EDU> Subject: Fermentation _too_ fast? Problem? I brewed up my 2nd batch of beer last Sunday: Papazian's "Vagabond Gingered Ale". Everything wend smoothly, and the brew was fermenting nicely initially: at 5 hours: 60 bubbles/min at 15 hours: 90 bubbles/min Then, everything came to a screeching halt... at 22 hours: .5 bubbles/min at 24 hours: .5 bubbles/min at 32 hours: no bubbles seen after 5 min of watching. I'm concerned that there may be a problem here...I expected the fermentation to last considerably longer. Is there any justification for worry here? I'm fermenting in a well-sealed plastic bucket, at 70 deg. I pitched the (dry) yeast directly onto the cooled wort. Should I re-pitch? Unfortunately, I don't have a hydrometer yet so those readings are not available. Somewhat concerned in Laramie, Brian A. Klimowski Return to table of contents
Date: 15 Mar 1994 08:32:09 U From: "Palmer.John" <palmer at ssdgwy.mdc.com> Subject: Re: First Batch Paranoia, PsuedoEuroNewbieWannabe Hello New Brewers, and those considering it. For David, who is currently enjoying the agonizing suspense of his first batch, Relax, grab some microwave popcorn and watch Mystery Science Theatre 3000. I doubt your fermentation is hung at 1.020. Wait a total of 2 weeks before you bottle it so you can be sure its done fermenting. A hydrometer is not going to help you that much when doing all extract, and opening up the fermenter to take readings is not a good idea. Wait and see what it is when you bottle. Its your first batch, you can do even better next time, right? The stuff stuck on the Fermenter sides is the protein ring (and some yeast), leave it alone, do Not stir your beer at this point. If the beer stays at 20 when you bottle, all that means is that it will be a bit sweet with less alcohol. Not a big deal. *** For Tad, the answer is Yes, You Can. For recipes, see those posted along with your post in yesterdays HBD 1372. Start-up costs can range from 50-100 dollars depending on what equipment you buy. Post your location next time and solicit email from other brewers in your area for brewshops or nearby mail order. *** Remember, there is a considerable quantity of information available on Brewing on the Homebrew archive at Sierra.stanford.edu In fact, that is where my How to Brew Your First Beer document now resides, and it contains a lot of helpful info on the brewing processes, equipment, terms and troubleshooting. If you don't have FTP capability or Gopher, you can email me for a copy, just use Specification as the Subject. John Palmer MDA-SSD M&P palmer#d#john at ssdgwy.mdc.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 1994 10:44:17 -0600 (MDT) From: COYOTE <SLK6P at cc.usu.edu> Subject: Hop Planting/ Capper Buster/ Storing Wort RE: Hop planting ideas. axed by Rick Dante rdante at ucsd.edu Why not try them all! :) I'd vote for the south side. The more sun- the better- with hops. You really don't need some huge big heavy pole, especially if you are right next to something big like a house! I simply attached fairly heavy hooks to the side of the house just below the roof line. There is a pretty high edge I can attach to. The lowest part was only 15 feet, and the hops climbed much higher! I had to attach more line higher up! Anymore and the cascade would have had to climb the electric wires! (NOT recommended!!!!) I used the rough hemp type twine. It has lots of rough edges that the hops can cling well to. It is heavy enough to take plenty of weight. The house is nice and white, so they get plenty of "reflected" light. It get's quite warm, but as long as they are well watered they don't seem to mind. They will also serve to shade the house- and keep things cooler. NOTE: They've only had one year so far. I plan to run more stringers this year. I have sprouts poking their way up now. Anyone ever try a "wall of water" on their hops! The sprouts do taste good! (oops I knocked a couple off from excessive fondling! :( ) A fellow brewer/grower did something like Rick described. He put in two 12 foot posts and ran a trellis between them. He has a small shed (8ft), and started vines up it, then ran across stringers to the top of the large posts. The hops will go where you want them. They are very trainable. (more than my dogs!) SOIL PREPARATION: Something else to consider is what the condition of the soil in the different locations is. But regardless I would recommend getting a bag of steer manure, and some fine bark, and peat moss. Mix the manure in well, deep down. Mix peat moss in the upper portion, plant rhizomes just below the peat layer, then layer bark on top. U can use coarser bark farther out from the growing portion of the mound. You'd have to examine the quality of your soil before deciding the best treatment. You might even want to add some sand to aid drainage, depends on you soil! The high school put up a nice 6 ft chainlink fence on the east side of my house. Sits a foot higher than my ground level. I plan to stick some rhizomes in there too. Just let them go wild on the fence. I figure the more mounds the better! I doubt the high school kids would bother them, now- if they were grapes, or hop cousins, might be a dif. story! *** >RE: Bottle busting from capper * I've had this problem -but mostly with odd shaped bottles using an Italien wing capper. Some bottles- like Michelob don't fit. Fat necks. They get in the way. My cheap- bench capper won't bust a bottle unless it's set at the wrong height and REALLY forced! The wing capper is much more likely to find a fault in a bottle. Overall I think the bench capper is more capable of capping dif. bottles, but the wing capper is easier/quicker to use as long at it'll fit the bottles, no "resetting" of heights- as with the bench capper. *** Jim Grady grady at hp-mpg.an.hp.com sed: Canning wort for use in starters: 1. "Hot water" canning should be sufficient. 2. ...not need to be refrigerated..Kept the jars...in the basement.. a year * My 2c worth: Jim, if it worked, great. My suggestion (as a personal rule of thumb) would be if you can autoclave/pressure cook the starters then they can be stored warmer (cooler is still better!), but if they are just "Hot water" canned you might be well advised to keep them refrigerated. Depends on how long you plan to store them too. If you're talking weeks; no problem, months; eh- probably ok, YearS...make starters more often! As an point of reference: Biology labs working with cell cultures generally store media in cold rooms. Small amounts might be stored on a lab shelf for shorter periods of time. Solutions that are autoclaved and sealed- are considered sterile until open. But a visual check can tell if contamination has occured. Cloudiness- sediment are signs. Something like culture plates (petri dishes) definitely should be stored cold. Even then, over a long time - some contamination is likely to occur, especially with the rich kind of media our fungi like! Plates are much more open to potential contamination than screw cap jars, or sealed mason jars! Just one spuds opinion. Take it or leave it. Bottom line: If it works- do it! |\ |\| \/| \-\-\- John (The Coyote) Wyllie SLK6P at cc.usu.edu -/-/-/ \ | ---- Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 94 13:32:09 EST From: Lee=A.=Menegoni at nectech.com Subject: Hop utalization / Canning Wort Re: Hop utilization in full gravity boils / canning I found my utilization increased when I went to full gravity, 6 gallon, boils using the Cajun Kooker, aka jet engine, from full gravity, 4 gallon, boils on the electric stove. I suspect that the more vigorous boil from the high BTU kooker was the factor in extracting more bitterness. RE: canning wort I use two pots, one with water, jars and lids the other filled with wort. I boil the wort and the pot full of jars and lids. After the wort has boiled for about 10 minutes I remove jars from the boiling water and fill them with wort and place a lid over them. I then replace the wort filled covered jars in the boiling water and boil another 10 minutes. I then tighten the lids and let the jars cool. I store them in unrefridgerated. By boiling the wort and then transfering them to the sanitized jars I speed the procees up. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 94 10:34:37 PST From: C.W. Jones (Christopher) <cwjones at microsoft.com> Subject: FAQ: Stuck fermentation... A quick question. I am doing a German WeiseBeer as per the recipe in The Complete Guide to Home Brewing. I just took the SG of it last night and it is at 1.49 (it will have been two weeks on Wednesday). Unfortunately, I spaced taking the SG when I first pitched, so I don't have anything to compare it to (other than the book's saying that it's starting SG should be between .43-.50). It isn't that it's not fermenting, as it has been bubbling away all through the last two weeks. Also, I tasted the sample I withdrew, and it tasted more like Apple Cider than beer (very sweet). Anyone else have a similar experience? Advice? Condolences? * ******************************************* /|\ * * / | \ * cwjones at microsoft.com * <======> * "I'd rather be sailing" * ~~~~~\\~~~~~ * * ******************************************* Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 94 14:39:03 EST From: Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu Subject: Stirring and SG measurements I thought that low OG measurements from not stirring were only a problem with partial boils in extract brewing. As an all-grainer, I figured I was immune. Well, the other night, I found out differently. I was making an experimental Belgian Wit beer using flour instead of raw wheat berries (pre-ground, doncha know?) As you might expect, the sparge was extreeeeemely slow (about 1ml/sec, or about 1 gallon/hour). Here's the picture: I've got a plastic tube running from the spigot on the lauter tun down into a pot on the floor that is collecting the run-off. At one point, I noticed that the tubing had sort of curled up so that the outlet was right at the top of the liquid in the pot. I tried to push it back down, but that's where it wanted to be. Eventually the sparge finished (I did manage it to make it go a little faster towards the end) when I had collected about 3 gallons (my target volume for this test batch). I took a sample by dipping the hydrometer tube into the pot, and measured it. 1.030. What!? I was aiming for 1.045! Hmm.... Stir.... Take another sample. 1.046. Whew! I guess what happened was that the wort coming out late in the sparge, near the top of the liquid in the pot, just stayed there, and didn't mix with the heavier wort below. I took my sample from the top... Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 94 14:45:19 EST From: Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu Subject: What have I brewed?? Re: beer made with Chimay yeast, wheat & malt extract. You made a unique beer, just like many Belgian brewers do. Who needs styles? A friend recently returned from Belgium with this story: He was shopping for beers he couldn't get here in the US. He picks up a bottle of "Roman", and asks the clerk "What kind of beer is this?" The clerk, pointing at the label, says "It's Roman." Friend says, "No, I mean, what style is it?" Clerk, pointing at label, says, more forcefully, "Roman!" This was not a unique occurrence. Friend eventually gets the message, and stops asking. =S Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 94 15:04 EST From: <GNT_TOX_%ALLOY.BITNET at PUCC.PRINCETON.EDU> Subject: Starter culture Someone mentioned a while back about leaving a starter culture open and seeing what happened. Well, I did just that. A starter has been sitting open in my kitchen for 7 days now, and not a lick of fermentation of any kind. I smelled the stuff. It still smells like wort. I'm going to smack an airlock on tommorow and see if anything else is happening. Oh yeah, it tastes like wort also. Conclusion: Wort is not as easy to infect as you might believe. True, stuff will grow in it, but the infecting agents obviously arent hanging around kitchen air just waiting to fall into wort. To conclude my study, I'm going to bring some Nutrient Agar plates home and leave them on the counter and see what grows. BTW: The starters grow yeast with no trouble. Andy Pastuszak Philadelphia, PA INTERNET: GNT_TOX_%ALLOY.BITNET at PUCC.PRINCETON.EDU BITNET: GNT_TOX_ at ALLOY.BITNET Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 1994 15:43:15 -0500 From: rprice at cbmse.nrl.navy.mil Subject: Whiff of Banana In Digest #1372 MacDonald writes about a whiff of Banana. Typically the banana odor you describe is amyl acetate, and not often among the alcoholic beverage/Fermentation products you find. Fermentation Products (common) Acetaldehyde, methanol, propanol, acetone, methyl acetate, ethanol isobutanol, butanol, isopropanol, ethyl acetate (?), diacetal, n-propanol, isopentanal, ethyl propionate, propyl acetate, isobutanol, acetol, butyric acid, isobutyric acid, henanol, propionic acid, fufural, isoamyl acetate (Ah !! thats it), Pentanol, acetic acid, 1 and 2 methylparaben, butyl acetate, ethyl butyrate, isoamylalcohol etc. etc. etc., I am sure Jim Fix has more. Perhaps an infected wort, but I do think I would look elsewhere, like excessive temps, etc. first. For you information I had purchased a bit of the London Ale yeast and noticed my 1 qt. starter had a similar growth on the sides and a skim on the top of the jug. All was super clean, and I suspect it is a contaminant within the culture itself. I have a sample of the contaminant but don't have the time to do the analysis. Make sure you clean everything, and try a new starter. I have had excellent luck either begging breweries or brewpubs that have brews I like for yeast. Most are good guys and help out. A few are less than nice but there are ways to leave with what one wants anyway. Ah! that new clean white hankie. Cheers ! Return to table of contents
Date: 15 Mar 94 21:03:00 GMT From: korz at iepubj.att.com (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583) Subject: iodophor use/Sour Belgians/low OG/Dayton thermostat Fudge writes: >When I keg, I use a sterilant that does not need a rinse, it is iodine based, >and after I scrub it out with hot water, I fill the keg up with the >sterilant. Then I cap the keg, and after waiting at least ten minutes for >the sterilization to take place, I drive the sterilant out with CO2. Then I >open the keg to rack, and I am racking into a CO2 environment, no Yes, but if you read the instructions on the iodophor, you will probably notice that the iodophor solution does not need to be rinsed if the item to be sanitized is allowed to *air dry*. I don't think there's a fear that you will get sick from this and since I'm not a chemist, I can't say where the iodine would "go" as the solution dries (I don't think that iodine is very volatile, or is it?). If you do decide that you want to rinse, but your water is not sanitary, you could rinse with cheap beer. ******** Mark writes: >I am one of the crazy ones who wants to start making belgian ales. My >question is: Is there a place I can purchace lactobacillus (lactic acid >bacteria) or do I need to create it by souring lactose? >The reason I am asking is that I am very interested in creating a >Flander's Brown or Belgian Red which could use the introduction of >lactic acid during a secondary fermentation. I could be incorrect on >this though. Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Various lactic acid-producing bacteria will sour beer, not just lactobacillus. I don't know of any commercial source for lactobacillus at this time, but you can buy Pediococcus from various sources -- ask your retailer to order you some. I made what has turned out to be a very sour beer (after a year and a half) by using just Pedio and no Lacto. Both pedio and lacto will eat most of the sugars in wort -- it doesn't just have to be lactose. It just so happens that they will also eat lactose (whereas most yeast won't) which is why you need to be very careful with sanitation if you add lactose to a brew. Some brewers have reported success with adding Lactic Acid, but the result was reported to be rather one-dimensional until the beer matured for a while. ******** GNT_TOX writes: >one without a starter) and I did the Papzian, boil all malt in 1 1/2 >gallons and dilute down method. > >Well, I used one can of M&F Wheat and a bag of Northwestern Weizen, >made five gallons. My O.G. was 1.030. It seems low. Sholdn't I have >an O.G. of around 1.046? What are the chances I didn't stir the stuff >good enough to get it all dissolved? 99% You probably did not mix well enough when you added the hot wort to the cooler water and most of the gravity was at the bottom. Don't worry, the yeast will stir things up... ********** >I use a Dayton "SPDT temperature control" model 2E399 attached to a 23 >cu ft chest freezer. It works great. My freezer stays within 2 degrees. >It is not as inexpensive as a air stat but it was my understanding that >an air stat will not work on a freezer. It will, but the problem is that the Hunter Air Stat is no longer manufactured. If you find one, it's just luck. >The infomation you will need to set it up. You will need wire and plugs. >Set freezer control to coldest. Tie the green (ground) together. Tie the white >together. The black from outlet to the red screw. The black from freezer to >the white screw. Ensure the the house wiring is correct for netural and hot. Actually, it is immaterial what temperature you set the freezer control at as long as it is lower than your replacement thermostat setting, which, in the case of a freezer, will be true at any setting related to fermenting/ lagering. Al. Return to table of contents
Date: 15 Mar 94 21:27:00 GMT From: korz at iepubj.att.com (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583) Subject: hop utilization/oxidized kraeusen... NOT Norm writes: >Mark Garetz restates his position that boil gravity does not affect alpha >acid utilization. I remain open-minded about it all, but will offer >something to think about. Most homebrewers report that when they go to >full-volume boils, the beer became overhopped. This was certainly true with >me, although at the time I didn't know what an IBU was. I assumed that the >lower boil gravity (remember that the fermentation gravity didn't change) was >the reason. <snip> My experience mirrors Norm's. I too believe that increased boil gravity reduces utilization. The reason I think there is no data out there from the brewing researchers is because the big breweries don't really care about this information. They formulate recipes and adjust hop usage based upon IBU tests on the finished product. I know that Anheuser-Busch buys hops in incredibly large amounts and then they store them sometimes for two or more years before use. I'm sure they test the hops for %AA periodically (especially when going to a new lot), but the final adjustments probably come from bitterness measurements in the final product. >Also, the point about the iso-alpha acids oxidizing in the head has me a >little confused. We've been told forever that one of the affects of >fermentation is to push out the oxygen in the headspace of the fermenter. I >wouldn't expect much oxygen to be in the headspace for this process to >happen. Am I off? I could see this happening more in an open fermenter, >which are still used commercially in places. Perhaps the research was based >on this type of fermenter. Don't be confused Norm -- Mark was wrong in saying that oxidation of kraeusen components makes them insoluble. Kraeusen is indeed bitter and, for the most part, insoluble in water, beer and alcohol, even in closed fermenters where it does not have the opportunity to oxidize, just as you noted. I too am trying to keep an open mind on the kettle utilization issue, but my experience leads me to believe otherwise. You can surround your fermenter with copies of the Proceedings of the ASBC Conferences, you can wave a copy of DeKlerck over your kettle, you can read every article published by the MBAA and none if it will guarantee that the beer you make is drinkable, let alone good. Just because the literature doesn't say it is so, doesn't mean that it can't be so. I put a lot more weight on my experience than I do on my reading (except the HBD -- because it is mostly a collection of experiences) when it comes to making decisions about my recipes and procedures. If my gut feeling says one thing and Hough et. al. say something else, then I go with my gut feeling and take good notes. Brewing is both an art and a science. Science can sometimes help explain why the art works, but it can't replace it. The final proof is in the quality of the beer you make and if you are happy with it. You can't learn to be a great brewer from a book... you have to roll up your sleeves. Al. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 94 16:30:43 EST From: budinski1 at aol.com Subject: Re: #1(2) Homebrew Digest #13... cancel please Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 94 13:51:45 -0800 From: Steve Christiansen <steven at sequent.com> Subject: Re: Broken bottle when capping! > Well, I was bottling my beer this weekend, and on the third to last > bottle, the neck broke in my capper! I've never experienced this > before - has anyone else out there? Yes, I've broken a few no-refill bottles with my double-lever capper. It hasn't happened often since I made two improvements: 1. I keep the capper oiled. The less force needed to work it, the less chance of breaking a bottle. 2. I'm careful not to torque the handles. In other words, I use a motion like pushing something straight into the ground, instead of a motion like breaking a stick in half. It may be all in my head, but it seems to help. > Also, I refuse to get worried when I think to myself "if this bottle > can't stand the force of my capper, will it withstand the force of > carbonation?" - but the thought does continue to pop up! Well this is just anecdotal evidence, but I've been brewing for several years now, I've broken several bottles with my capper, but I've never had a bottle bomb, even with a couple of over-carbonated batches. - -- Steve Christiansen Beaverton, OR steven at sequent.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 1994 16:10:10 -0800 (CST) From: Lee Bertagnolli <bertagno at eagle.sangamon.edu> Subject: Finny thingies for cooling hot wort In HBD 1371, Ronald Dwelle sez (in regards to his interesting brewpub tour): > And if anyone can figure out how to make a finny-wort-cooler > on the cheap, let me know. This thing is called a heat-exchanger, and is basically a set of embossed SS plates clamped together like a big accordian. The hot wort and cold water are channeled between alternating plates from the top, and cold wort and hot water come out the bottom. The whole thing comes apart for easy cleaning of the individual plates. The plates are hung from a pipe across the top, like a rack of suits at the clothing store. When I was a wee lad, my family used to run a creamery, and had one of these gizmos. It was huge (over 6' tall). It would take boiling hot pasteurized milk and make it ice cold for bottling. When my father decided to get out of the business (in the late sixties), he sold it (and several huge SS tanks, walk-in coolers, pumps, pipes, etc.) for scrap. What I would give to have some of that equipment now... It would certainly be a challenge to make one of these cheaply. **************************************************************************** * Lee Bertagnolli bertagno at sangamon.edu * * Sangamon State University "Seville der dago, towsin bus essinarow." * * Springfield, Illinois "Nojo, demmit trux, summit cowsin, summit dux!" * **************************************************************************** Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 1994 17:20:32 -0500 From: Kelvin Kapteyn <kelvink at mtu.edu> Subject: RE: Floating Thermometers in HBD #1372 Just to be clear on this Paul, I was one of the posters discussing making a floating thermometer. I already own one of the floating thermometers like you mention. I don't use it because I don't like to have to grab it to make it turn the right direction so I can read it. I also have to tilt it so I can line up the numbers. With the margarine bowl - homemade version we discussed, I can glance at my accurate and fast responding dial thermometer and read it without messing with it. Probably not enough of an improvment to revolutionize the homebrewing community, but I like it. -Kelvin (kelvink at mtu.edu) Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 94 15:07:52 PST From: "Joe Stone" <JSTONE at SJEVM5.VNET.IBM.COM> Subject: Recirculating Pumps I need some information on recirculating pumps. What type of pump should I use? Where can I buy one? How much should it cost? Please email me directly. I don't want to waste bandwidth. Joe Return to table of contents
Date: 15 Mar 94 18:31:37 EST From: Steve Daniel <71161.2610 at CompuServe.COM> Subject: Hop Utilization vs. S.G. Just my two cents worth on the hop utilization thing. What some folks fail to take into account when they use the argument, "My beers got more bitter when I went to a full-wort boil, so the lower gravity must increase hop utilization" is that two variables changed in the process. Along with a decreased gravity, the total liquid volume went up too. Since hop acid isomerization is an equilibrium reaction, volume (dilution) will definitely have a positive effect on utilization, and wort gravity may therefore play little or no part in the process. Has anybody done two same-volume boils, one at a low gravity and one at a high gravity, and then had the iso-alpha acid assayed? That would be the only way to tell. Steve "I'm glad we don't get all the government we pay for" Daniel Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 94 19:31:25 CST From: "Corey Janecky" <cjanecky at facstaff.wisc.edu> Subject: Home kegging system Ive been brewing for about a year now and I am contemplating purchasing a home kegging system. How much can I expect to have to spend? Any suggestions on the best deal via mail order? I don't care if its a new system or used. Thanks for the help. -WADE Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 94 15:35:31 EST From: downing at GRAPHICS.CS.NYU.EDU (Troy Downing) Subject: Thomas Hardy Ale recipe wanted I was in a local pub the other night and tried their "extremely rare" as they put it "Thomas Hardy Ale". It was a light amber, somewhat sweet, Barley wine type beer with a strong smell of molasses. If anyone out there has an all grain recipe that approximates this ale, I'd like to hear from you. Thanks, +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Troy Downing (212) 998-5753 (voice) | | New York University (212) 995-4320 (FAX) | | 34 Stuyvesant Street, 3rd Floor | | New York, NY 10003 downing at cs.nyu.edu | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 94 21:21:37 CST From: "Charles S. Jackson" <sjackson at ftmcclln-amedd.army.mil> Subject: Alabama Home Brewing HELP!!! (He says in a loud and paniced voice) Just read in the Birmingham paper that it is ILLEGAL to brew beer in Alabama, (and Oklahoma nad Utah - just to make a few other folks sweat a bit). I had been lead to believe that the changes in federal law during the Carter administration made it legal in all 50. Seems as if I was lead astray. The tone of the article was such that one could easily infer that the ABC folks were not going to be busting any doors to search for carboys but htey did say it was illegal to brew or possess homebrew - now how is a guy supposed to relax? With any luck I will not be living here after summer 95 (and you can bet I won't be looking to relocate into Oklahoma or Utah) but what can be done in the interim? How can there be homebrew stores here if the law prohibits the process? I must say I am a bit paranoid - a feeling not enjoyedfor MANY years but still just as unpleasant. Any advise from the old hands out there? A neophyte with his first batch in the bottles for just 2 weeks ************************************************************ \ Charles (Steve) Jackson \ Foolish consistencies \ \ sjackson at ftmcclln-amedd.army.mil \ are the hobgoblins of \ \ 73171.2135 at compuserve.com \ little minds \ ************************************************************ / The views expressed herein are those of the author, / / just the author and nobody but the author, so help me. / / You see nobody else would want them. (c) 1996 / ************************************************************ Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1373, 03/16/94