FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  Got Copper Sulphate on my chiller (allison shorten)
  re:Mini Kegs (EWD1)
  Newbie help (Jack Boatman)
  RE: Indigenous Recipes ("/R=FDACB/R=A1/U=RIDGELY/O=HFM-400/TN=FTS 402-1521/FFN=Bill Ridgely/")
  Need to Protect Secondary from UV? (macdonald)
  5 Liter Mini Kegs (GNT_TOX_)
  re- perle hops (George Tempel)
  whole hops (TODD CARLSON)
  Wyeast 1056 redux (George Kavanagh O/o)
  Source of Perle rhizomes (Jim Grady)
  HDM grain any good?? (EDWARDP)
  not-so-stout stout (/R=HERLVX/R=AM/U=KLIGERMAN/FFN=KLIGERMAN/)
  Using plastic carboys (Mike Colyar)
  GROLSCH BOTTLES/CHICAGO BEER BARS/DUNKELWEIZENBOCK (708) 938-3184" <HANSEN.MICHAEL at igate.abbott.com>
  Tumbleweed Trip Review (U-E68316-Scott Wisler)
  coolers for mashing ("JSDAWS1 at PROFSSR")
  GLENBREW YEAST & ROTTEN EGGS (BUCKHOLTZ)
  Mini-Keg question? (Theriault Kenneth M.)
  REC.CRAFTS.BREWING??? (btalk)
  NEW MD BREWPUB (NASARC07)
  cloudy brew (RAY _ HANDER)
  homebrew request (c_whitehead)
  Plastics and Permiability (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
  Brewpot Cleaning, Turbinado Priming (Kirk L. Oseid)
  poles for growing hops ("Daniel Ratchen")
  Regulators for Kegging (GNT_TOX_)
  Portland Brewers Conference (Tom Lorelle)
  Re:anaerobic kegging (don)
  Vinegared beers, &c. (Ash Baker)
  Getting cut-off SS kegs (Jim Grady)
  Homebrew supply shops ("BKYLE")
  decoctions and enzymes/Red Star starters/aeration/Chimay takeover? (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
  Filters (b_turnbaugh)
  non alcoholic? (Zach Fresco)
  patron saint of brewers... (Thomas_Fotovich-U2347)
  Oregon Homebrew Competition (Ted Manahan)
  Teflon Coated Pots? (mrmike656)
  aerating wort (Tim Lawson)


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For "Cat's Meow" information, send mail to lutzen at novell.physics.umr.edu



----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Mon, 28 Mar 1994 19:59:03 +1000 (EST)
From: allison shorten <shorten at zeus.usq.edu.au>
Subject: Got Copper Sulphate on my chiller

The header basically says it all. My father-in-law, a very knowledgeable
and practical bloke for a non-brewer (but he loves mine) says that this is
probably the gradual result of using it in mildly acidic worts, and that I
should not use it again until I get it off. He suggests soaking it in a 10%
solution of hydrochloric acid. He further suggests that in future I clean
it in a bicarb soda (alkaline?) solution after use.
  I would appreciate any advice from HBDers on this topic, as I am only a
humble economist and dont know diddly about chemistry. Thanks
Brett Shorten
Toowoomba, Queensland,Australia

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Date: Mon, 28 Mar 94 2:09:34 PST
From: EWD1%CRPTech%DCPP at bangate.pge.com
Subject: re:Mini Kegs

Hi There,

	I wanted to respond to the question (and subsequent discussion) 
regarding the "mini Keg" system.  I purchased one several months ago thinking 
it was the solution to the worlds problems (at least my home brewing ones).  
The first one I got, the CO2 tap leaked by which pressurized the beer to the 
point that no liquid came out, just foam.  I called Brew HaHa and was told to 
send it back and they'd replace it.  I sent it back and got another which has 
essentially the same problem.  The needle valve in the tap doesn't hold the 
CO2 pressure back so the beer keg just continues to get to higher and higher 
pressure until the CO2 cylinder is empty.  Consequently, the beer is overly 
foamy (not good) and it takes about 3 cylinders of CO2 for each keg (also not 
good). Another unrelated problem was that I cannot find a local supplier of 
the CO2 cylinders, so I have to mail order them too.  So, the end result is 
that my mini keg setup is in a closet gathering dust right now.  Anyone who 
wants it, I'll give you a real good deal!   Keep up the good work.

							 Ed Davidson


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Date: Mon, 28 Mar 94 08:29:43 EST
From: Jack Boatman <c23jrb at kocrsv01.delcoelect.com>
Subject: Newbie help

Forgive thee ignorant newbie...

I'm using a Coopers Real Ale kit (3.75# hopped malt extract syrup) plus an
additional 3# Laagander light malt extractc syrup. No sugar.

Everything started out fine. I had vigorous action & blow-off within 24 hrs.
Temperature was about 74 F which I was concerned about, but then again, the
Coopers instructions state that temperature should be kept at about 74 F or
above.

Blow-off was done in about another 24 hrs. Installled an S-lock. Was getting
about 40 bubles/minute. Temperature about 72 F.

Temperature dropped to about 68 F. and bubble rate dropped to about 1 or 2 per
minute. I put together a light bulb/box arrangment and got the temperature back
up to around 73 F. Bubbles now about 1 per 45 seconds.

The carbouy is pretty cloudy although it looks like maybe an eighth or quareter
inch of the top edge has cleared.

Questions:

What its a reasonable bubble rate?

Should I try to keep it warm in order to keep the bubble rate up?

Shouldn't it start to clear at the top and then progress to the bottom by the
time it's done?

How long should I wait before deciding it's done (no 0SG reading)? or doing 
something else (like re-racking or pitching or scrapping....)

I'm trying not to panic :-)


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Date: Mon, 28 Mar 1994 08:16:00 EST
From: "/R=FDACB/R=A1/U=RIDGELY/O=HFM-400/TN=FTS 402-1521/FFN=Bill Ridgely/" at mr.cber.fda.gov
Subject: RE: Indigenous Recipes

  In HBD #1382, John Norton writes:
  
     >In the last issue of Zymurgy, there was an article about indigenous
     >brews of the Himalayas and the Andes.  I am interested in trying my
     >hand at the Andian recipe for "chicha," which is a corn-based brew.
  
     >... it is quite difficult to find grain corn that hasn't been treated
     >with a fungicide (?), especially in the city of Chicago!  I've been to
     >health food stores, and even called a few feed stores, but all of their
     >corn had already been treated.
  
  Wendy and I used feed-store corn quite successfully for our early chicha
  experiments. We were concerned about the fungicides as well but were
  assured that the corn used for animal feed was untainted. It germinated
  without difficulty, and the chicha turned out fairly well.
  
  For the 10-gallon batch we brewed for the AHA conference, we special-
  ordered 50 pounds of whole-kernel, organically-grown blue corn from a
  Washington, DC-area health food store called Healthway. It came from
  Arrowhead Mills in New Mexico. I was told that Arrowhead did not deal
  directly with the public, but I'll try to get a phone number and post it
  to you privately if you want to inquire further.
  
     >Finally, has anyone else tried brewing with corn as a primary
     >ingredient... Or tried malting it?  I'd greatly appreciate any insights
     >and or advice ...
  
  Corn grits used as brewing adjuncts are boiled first to break down the
  starches and then added to the mash. Malted whole corn can be crushed and
  mashed independently, or it can also be used as an adjunct. Malting is
  fairly simple. Just follow the directions in the Zymurgy article. The only
  major concern is potential molding of the soaked corn, but if you turn the
  corn bed once a day (we used a potato masher as a rake), the risk is
  minimized.
  
  Bill Ridgely (Brewer, Patriot, Bicyclist)                         __o
  ridgely at a1.cber.fda.gov                                          -\<,
  ridgely at cber.cber.fda.gov                                     ...O/ O...
  


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Date: Mon, 28 Mar 94 09:03:58 EST
From: macdonald at akocoa.enet.dec.com
Subject: Need to Protect Secondary from UV?

Is it necessary to protect the brew from UV while in secondary? I use a 
clear 5 gallon carboy, and generally just set the secondary on the
floor in a spare bedroom which has the shades pulled, and not in the
direct line of any window in any case. I customarily pull a plastic
garden bag over everything, just letting the neck protrude. But in the
winter when I use a heating strap to keep the ferment going ( ambient temp.
of about 58 degrees requires some help for an ale fermentation) then
I do not put the plastic over the carboy for fear of creating a "too-warm"
mini-climate underneath the plastic ( Maybe I could put the heat-strap over
the plastic?) In any case, I've got a two to three week secondary going
at the moment, without any UV protection other than it being out of the
drect sunlight. Should I be protecting the secondary from UV?
Bruce

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Date:     Mon, 28 Mar 94 09:49 EST
From: <GNT_TOX_%ALLOY.BITNET at PUCC.PRINCETON.EDU>
Subject:  5 Liter Mini Kegs

I took the plunge on Friday afternoon and bought me a 5 Liter mini keg setup.
I paid $55.00 for 4 kegs, 4 bungs, a box of 10 cartridges and a Brew King Tap.
Bottling was so much easier now that I only have 4 containers to fill instead
of some 50+.  The bungs are a real bitch to get all the way down.  I eventually
took a hammer to them and ended up slightly bending one of the kegs.  We'll
see how it goes.  I'll give a progress report in a couple of weeks when I
tap one.

Andy Pastuszak
Philadelphia, PA

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Date: Mon, 28 Mar 1994 09:11:47 +0000 (U)
From: George Tempel <tempel at MONMOUTH-ETDL1.ARMY.MIL>
Subject: re- perle hops

                      re: perle hops
>From: pacasey at lexmark.com (Patrick Casey)
>Subject: source for Perle hop rhizomes?
>


well, i _just_ planted my mt hood, perle, and cascade (2 each)
yesterday. I got them from Freshops in Oregon
503/929-2736, and they were at least as thick as my
thumbs (and much longer too!). I've no connection
other than, at the moment, a happy customer.

Good luck


l8r...
ty (george tempel, home = netromancr at aol.com)
"kiss cats: the dachshund and the deer are one"--wallace stevens



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Date: Mon, 28 Mar 94 09:58:49 EST
From: carlsont at GVSU.EDU (TODD CARLSON)
Subject: whole hops

          I brewed last friday using whole hops for the first time.
          They were given to me by a friend who buys hops in bulk.
          I asked for 1 oz of perele and 1 oz of cascade.  I
          previously have used pellets purchased in 1 or 2 oz packages
          so I never had to weigh out my hops.  Since the whole hops
          are a lot more "fluffy" than pellets, I just assumed that
          these large bags contained 1 oz.  Midway through brewing I
          began to wonder if I shouldn't have weighed them to be sure.
          Since it is too late to weigh and too early to taste, could
          some experienced brewer tell me about how many cups is 1 oz
          of loose whole hops?  I know this is an inexact way to
          measure but I just want to get an idea of what I brewed.  My
          "1 oz" bags measured up to about 3 cups.  I boiled 1/2 of
          each bag for 60 min, 1/4 for 30 min, 1/8 for 10 min, 1/16
          for 5 min and 1/16 for 0 min.

          sleepless in grand rapids

          todd
          carlsont at gvsu.edu

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Date: 28 Mar 1994 10:01:46 -0500
From: George Kavanagh O/o <George.Kavanagh at omail.wang.com>
Subject: Wyeast 1056 redux

In RE: my query on whether 1956 was known to
have trouble restarting at priming/bottling time
to provide bottle carbonation.

Thanks to all who provided input.  I have heard from
many who have had no similar problems, and a few who
have.  The consesus is that:

1) If you plan to store the brew in a coolish place, let the
    bottles sit a week or more at room temp to let the yeast
    get going before moving to storage.
2) Let the yeast do its thing for a coupla months.  I went
    back to a stash of ale I had bottled last october &
    had given up on (i had sampled it after a few weeks
    & it was only slightly carbonated).  Now they are
    just fine; wonderful in fact - flavors nicely blended
    and properly carbonated.


 -gk  ( George.Kavanagh at omail.wang.com )
======================================================

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Date: Mon, 28 Mar 94 10:19:46 EST
From: Jim Grady <grady at hpangrt.an.hp.com>
Subject: Source of Perle rhizomes

Freshops has Perle rhizomes.  Their address & phone number are:

        Freshops
        36810 Kings Valley Highway
        Philomath, Oregon 97370
        503.929.2736

They have the following types of rhizomes (prices vary by type):

Cascade, Centennial, Chinook, Hallertauer, Hersbrucker, Kent Golding,
Mt. Hood, Northern Brewer, Nugget, Perle, Saaz, Tettnanger & Willamette.

They recommend Cascade, Nugget & Perle as beginner varieties. (But did I
follow their advice? Nah!)

Minimum order, 2 rhizomes.

Standard Disclaimer.
- --
Jim Grady             
grady at hp-mpg.an.hp.com

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Date: Mon, 28 Mar 94 10:31:02 EST
From: EDWARDP at INDY.NAVY.MIL
Subject: HDM grain any good??

The local retailer can get HDM belgian malt at a very attractive price
compared to Dewolf-Cosyns.  The Wholesalers are telling him "it's the
same".  I'm skeptical.  It may be as good, or maybe not as good, but
probably not the same.

What has the collective experience of HBD have to say about HDM, good,
bad or indifferent?  Al K, Do you sell the stuff?  Dr. Fix, have you
tested any HDM malt?

Private E-mail acceptable.

 -- Paul E.  (edwardp at indy.navy.mil)

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Date: Mon, 28 Mar 1994 10:10:38 -0500 (EST)
From: /R=HERLVX/R=AM/U=KLIGERMAN/FFN=KLIGERMAN/ at mr.rtpnc.epa.gov
Subject: not-so-stout stout

Hell HBD:

I need to tap the wisdom of the HBD.  I just made an all grain stout with a
new SS brew pot I constructed from a keg.  Not having marked the 5 gallon
level very accurately, I wound up with 6 gallons of 1.039 OG wort.  The
recipe was as follows:
7# of Belgian pale malt
0.5 # roasted black malt Belgian
10 oz. of 6 row roasted barley
1# of Belgian special B
1 oz of Northern pellets at 7% a.a. boiled for 1 h
1 oz. of Willamette pellets at 5% a.a. boiled for 1 h.
Single infusion mash at 158 to 162 F
Pitched with Coopers dry ale yeast from Finland!

I plan to keg this and have it on tap.

The questions are:  Is this too low a gravity for a draft stout?
Should I add dry malt extract to raise the gravity?  Should I freeze the
wort before it goes into the secondary and remove chunks of ice to
effectively raise the gravity and create an "ice stout". Any help will
be appreciated either by e-mail of over the HBD.
Thanks
Andy Kligerman
kligerman%am%herlvx at mr.rtpnc.epa.gov



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Date: Mon, 28 Mar 94 09:20:54 -0700
From: Mike Colyar <colyma at zinc.com>
Subject: Using plastic carboys

Has anyone had any success using plastic carboys instead of the glass  
variety for fermentation?  They are easier to obtain and safer to  
handle than glass.

Thanks,
mike

Mike_Colyar at zinc.com

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Date: 28 Mar 1994 10:22:00 -0600 (CST)
From: "Michael D. Hansen (708) 938-3184" <HANSEN.MICHAEL at igate.abbott.com>
Subject: GROLSCH BOTTLES/CHICAGO BEER BARS/DUNKELWEIZENBOCK

Hey All!

As someone once said "A little bit about a lot of things..."

To the lucky guy with the Grolsch-drinking Pop: Nab those bottles right 
quick young man! I have been using Grolsch and other swing top bottles for 
a while now and all I can say is more! more! more! I wish I had more! 
Luckily I found a weizen (Oberdorfer) that I like which comes in swingtops 
that are sold by the bottle at my local liquor store. Fischer makes a 
bitter and an amber which come in 22 oz. swingtops and Altenmeister's 
altbier comes in swingtops. I use the rubber gaskets twice. Just flip them 
over for the next batch. Discard and replace every other batch. I sanitize 
the whole kit-and-kaboodle in bleach solution and rinse in very hot water 
with a bottle washer replacing the water every half dozen bottles or so. I 
have never had a problem with uneven carbonation and swingtops look very 
classy.

Another good Chicago beer bar to add to the list posted a couple of HBD's 
ago:
The Great Beer Palace 4128 N. Lincoln Ave. Many, many micros and imports on 
tap. If you try their sampler platter you get a really neat paper Viking 
helmet (like the Burger King crowns)

I brewed my second all-grain batch this weekend. Well almost all-grain. It 
was a dunkelweizenbock which was a dunkelweizen via all-grain and then 
"bocked" with weizen extract (Shh, don't tell; I just didn't want to boil 
down ten gallons which would've taken all day. It took long enough as it 
was). I purchased a 33 qt. enamel on steel brewpot which fit nicely over 
two burners on my gas stove. Great, I thought. Well, it did get nice and 
hot to get 6.5 gallons to a full rolling boil in about 20 minutes (good) 
but during the 90 minute boil, I scorched the counter top next to the stove 
because of that same heat (bad). Chalk-up another installment of the 
angry-wife syndrome.

A caution to all you Zapap Lauter tun users: watch the level of the liquid 
that comes up between the two buckets! I didn't and ended up with a quart 
or so of precious juice all over the counter (yes, the to-be scorched one), 
floor, and the inside of my winter coat (Huh? you say? My lauter tun was 
donning it for insulation; Looks really funny). Chalk up the second 
installment of the angry-wife syndrome in the same brewing session.

I'll post the recipe for the yet-to-be-named dunkelweizenbock provided it 
turns out the way I wanted it to. I have good feelings about it. 

Brew on my friends!
Mike Hansen  (HANSENMD at RANDB.ABBOTT.COM)


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Date: Mon, 28 Mar 94 11:54:02 EST
From: U-E68316-Scott Wisler <wisler_scott at ae.ge.com>
Subject: Tumbleweed Trip Review


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Date: 28 Mar 1994 08:45:08 PST
From: "JSDAWS1 at PROFSSR" <JSDAWS1 at PB1.PacBell.COM>
Subject: coolers for mashing

I've been using a freinds Gott 30-qt cooler w/copper manifold for about a
year and getting 25/26 pts/lb/gal.  I'm looking (with little success so far)
for a cooler and am exploring alternatives.  I've got questions.

1.  I've read and heard that Gott or Rubbermade are preferable to Igloo.
    Is this fact or opinion ?

2.  Any ideas on the relative efficiency of round vs rectabgular shaped
    coolers for extraction efficiency ?

3.  Has anyone used both a copper manifold and an easymasher in a cooler ?
    Can the EM be easily installed in a cooler ?

Thx in advance

|    Don't anthropomorphize computers...  They don't like it.         |
| ------------------------------------------------------------------- |
| JACK DAWSON  -  JSDAWS1  -  415 545-0299  -  CUSTOMER BILLING  (BG) |

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Date: Mon, 28 Mar 1994 11:14:54 -0600 (CST)
From: BUCKHOLTZ at uwplatt.edu
Subject: GLENBREW YEAST & ROTTEN EGGS


I AM INFORMING ALL HOMEBREWERS THAT I HAVE HAD BAD EXPERIANCES WILL GLENBREW
YEAST.  IT FERMENTED FOR ONLY TWO DAYS AND THEN QUITE.  MOREOVER, THE SMELL
OF ROTTEN EGGS IS OVERWHELMING.  IT HAS SPOILED A BATCH OF WHAT WOULD HAVE BEEN
AN EXCELLENT MAPLE SAP PILSNER.  ANY COMMENTS OUT THERE?  I'LL NEVER USE IT
AGAIN.  I WAS TALKED INTO USING IT BY A SUPPLIER IN VIRGINIA.  SHE STATED THAT
THIS "NEW" PRODUCT WAS MORE TOLERANT TO ALCOHOL. IT'S NOT.  WARNING::: DON'T
BE FOOLED OR MISLEAD.

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Date: Mon, 28 Mar 94 12:30:02 EST
From: theriaul at sde.mdso.vf.ge.com (Theriault Kenneth M.)
Subject: Mini-Keg question?


As far as I understand, the 5 Liter Mini Kegs all use a CO2 cartridge fitted
into the mini-keg tap.  Is there a way to connect a CO2 line up to it from
a regulator/tank setup?  I like the idea of the small kegs, but the idea
of buying my CO2 in cartridges sounds a little expensive in the long run.

Ken
theriaul at sde.mdso.vf.ge.com

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Date: Sat, 26 Mar 94 08:27:25 EST
From: btalk at aol.com
Subject: REC.CRAFTS.BREWING???

I've seen this mentioned a number of times on the HBD, and have always
wondered what it was . How does it compare /contrast to the HBD? 
Subscription info? Is it worthwhile subscribing to if I already get the HBD?
Later, BOb Talkiewicz, Binghamton, NY

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Date:         Mon, 28 Mar 94  14:22:03 EST
From: <NASARC07 at SIVM.SI.EDU>
Subject:      NEW MD BREWPUB

*** Resending note of 03/28/94 14:16
To: HOMEBREW

From: ALLAN JANUS

Last week, I reported that the Old Town Tavern in Gaithersbug Maryland would
open on March 31 - well, scratch that... I called, & that's just for the
Chamber of Commerce and other damned aristos... the mob doesn't get in 'til
Monday, April 4. I pressed my nose against the window last Friday and noticed
they hadn't actually gotten around to brewing yet (a minor detail) so the dear
knows what'll be on tap on Der Tap Tag. It's a very handsome looking place - I
look forward to getting stinking drunk there - See you there, DC area pals of
Gambrinus!


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Date: Mon, 28 Mar 1994 11:01:35 -0900
From: RAY _ HANDER <FSRH at aurora.alaska.edu>
Subject: cloudy brew

I have a light lager that is about ready to bottle and it has not settled
out thus leaving it cloudy.  Is there a cure for this prior to priming and
bottling?  I'm an intermediate brewer with about 15 batches experien and
this is the first time this has occured.  What causes this cloudiness?
Thanks in advance, reply on HBD or at FSRH at aurora.alaska.udu



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Date: Mon, 28 Mar 1994 14:27:47 EST
From: c_whitehead at queens.edu
Subject: homebrew request

please send me information about getting onto your mailing list regarding 
homebrewing...............Thank You..........Craig Whitehead

                          (c_whitehead at jtk.queens.edu)

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Date: 28 Mar 94 17:57:00 GMT
From: korz at iepubj.att.com (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Subject: Plastics and Permiability

Oops!  My keyboard at home has a sticky "m" key.  Therefore, I'm not
surprised that there was an "m" missing in the post about O2-permiability.
The units should have been:


             /      cc-mm       \
            |   --------------   |  10^-10
             \  sec-cm^2-cm Hg  /

Sorry.
Al.

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Date: Mon, 28 Mar 94 13:09:47 EST
From: klo at fluent.com (Kirk L. Oseid)
Subject: Brewpot Cleaning, Turbinado Priming

Hello:
 
Tim Lawson was having trouble cleaning the bottom
of his brewpot.  The answer is a 15-minute soak
using just enough vinegar to cover the bottom.
This will loosen the ``beerstone'' to the point
that it will come off with a light scrubbing.
 
The latest Zymurgy contains an article about
brewing sugars, written by Jeff Frane.  I have
some Turbinado sugar that I planned to use in
the kettle, but never did.  Jeff's article
got me thinking about using it in place of
corn sugar for priming.  Does anyone know of
the Turbinado-equivalent of 1/2-cup of corn
sugar?  I understand different types of sugar
will create varying degrees of carbonation if
used in the same quantity.  I want to use the
Turbinado to lightly carbonate bitters and
pale ales.  Would the Turbinado produce a
detectable flavor when used as the priming?

Thanks,
 
Kirk L. Oseid                              klo at fluent.com
Fluent, Inc.                               tel 603/643-2600
10 Cavendish Court, Lebanon, NH 03766      fax 603/643-3967

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Date: Mon, 28 Mar 1994 10:13:11 -0800
From: "Daniel Ratchen" <daniel_ratchen at rainbow.mentorg.com>
Subject: poles for growing hops


All you Hop Growers...

I am having trouble finding some lengthy poles to support my hop plants. 18'
long poles just aren't available through the normal gardening channels. If I
could only get a line on a hop grower that has a couple extra poles...

Do you folks have any ideas about supporting hop plants? What materials you
used? Where you got them? If someone near Portland, OR knows of some suppliers
for hop growers that would be excellent!

Thanks in advance for your help.

E-mail is fine, daniel_ratchen at mentorg.com



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Date:     Mon, 28 Mar 94 15:50 EST
From: <GNT_TOX_%ALLOY.BITNET at PUCC.PRINCETON.EDU>
Subject:  Regulators for Kegging

Question about regulators for kegging.  We have this regulator sitting
here at work.  It was used to dispense argon and is now sitting around
doing nothing.  It's a rather big one, made for a 2o pound tank.  Can
it be used to keg homebrew?

Andy Pastuszak
Philadelphia, PA


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Date: Mon, 28 Mar 1994 12:56:39 -0800
From: macbrew at netcom.com (Tom Lorelle)
Subject: Portland Brewers Conference


I am travelling to Portland for the PubBrewers conference next month. My
original lodging plans fell through and I looking for a place to stay or share
a room with someone. If anybody is interested or has some suggestions, please
e-mail me at macbrew at netcom.com.

Thanks,

Tom Lorelle

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Date: Mon, 28 Mar 94 14:58:45 CST
From: don at tellabs.com
Subject: Re:anaerobic kegging

>  Ben Woodliff suggests purging your c-keg before filling to prevent
>  O2 contamination. I agree and take it 1 step further.
>  
>   - With both locks on and the bung open, fill the keg with CO2 from
>  the bottom. Use the 'out' lock with the dip tube connected to the
>  CO2. 
>  
>   -Close the bung and bleed the CO2 from the 'in', again from the
>  bottom to the top. The keg is now completly purged.
>  
>   - Connect the siphon hose to the 'out' lock (the dip tube) and
>  siphon the beer, filling the keg again from the bottom to the top.
>  The CO2 displaced by the beer will vent from the 'in' lock, it
>  must be on or the siphon won't work. Keep an eye on the siphon
>  hose, if you start to suck some muck, you can probably pull the
>  lock off before it gets into the keg. The lock will neatly seal
>  right away.
>  
>  Cheers
>  
>  Bill Nichols     <bnichols at mlab.win.net>
I've thought about filling kegs in this manner but have not since
it would be difficult to sanitize the locks themselves and the 
male locks on the kegs. I suppose one could disassemble the female
locks and sanitize then apply 80 proof vodka to the parts on the kegs.
I have not tried this myself. Any other ideas??

don




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Date:         Mon, 28 Mar 94 14:58:04 EST
From: Ash Baker <3AVHB at QUCDN.QUEENSU.CA>
Subject:      Vinegared beers, &c.

I need a little help, and as this is the only place I can post, I'm hoping one
of you can help me.

In February, I went on a beer-buying binge.  I guess I must have had about
ninety bottles by the time I was finished -- micros from Ontario and Quebec,
and imports that are unavailable in Ontario that I got at the Societe des
Alcools.  My problem is this: over the past few days, eleven bottles have
turned out to be vinegared.  The skunk is absent, but the vinegar makes the
beers either totally undrinkable, or spoils the flavour sufficiently that I
might as well be drinking a Budmilloor.  So what's happening?  Yes, some of
the beers I bought might have been sitting on shelves for ages, but a bottle
of Giraf that has a month to go until its date expires was vinegared just as
much as a bottle of Molson Porter Champlain that (I later discovered) had been
sitting around since 1992.  Reinheitsgebot beers seem just as vulnerable as
adjunct-laden ones.  Is the problem with my storage methods?  I have been
keeping some in a beer fridge turned down so the cooling is only about to 40-45
Celsius.  The rest I keep in a lightless box by my cold window -- they stay
below 50 Celsius.  Is the inevitable temperature fluctuation causing the beers
to vinegar on me?  Should I just keep them in a cold fridge (though I know that
will adversely affect the bottle-conditioned ones).  I often get two or three
vinegared beers in a row -- will the flavour cling to my glass, even through
a good rinse with cold water?  Help me!  What I am I doing wrong?  I must have
dumped about five litres of beer down the drain in the past week -- I don't
want to continue!  I know that in future I should buy beer as I need it and
not hoard, but there must be some reason why beers are going vinegar, even
before their expiry date.  Any and all help would be very much appreciated --
please reply by private e-mail, and I will summarise and post the results.

Ash Baker (3avhb at qucdn.queensu.ca) Queen's University, Ontario, Canada.

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Date: Mon, 28 Mar 94 17:02:15 EST
From: Jim Grady <grady at hpangrt.an.hp.com>
Subject: Getting cut-off SS kegs

There have been a lot of requests lately for addresses to get a cut-off
SS keg.  I finally have a couple of minutes to reply -- sorry for the
delay. 

I got my 15.5 gal Sankey keg with the top already removed from BCI for
$42.50 (last Dec) + shipping (about $15 to Mass.).  Overall, I am quite
pleased but it sure does seem to go through the propane quickly!  It
looks like I should work on building a heat shroud as someone posted
earlier.  Anyway, the address and phone info are:

> BCI can be contacted at 
> 
> Bev-Con International
> 6400 HIghway 51 South
> Post Office Box 396
> Brighton, TN.  38011
> (901)476-8000
> (800)284-9410

They do NOT take credit cards!  I called to find out what shipping would
be and sent them a check.
- --
Jim Grady             
grady at hp-mpg.an.hp.com

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Date:      Mon, 28 Mar 1994 15:45:09 MST
From: "BKYLE" <BKYLE at library.csf.edu>
Subject:   Homebrew supply shops

Can anyone tell me where some quality homebrew supply stores are in
Southern California.

Thanks,

Brendan Kyle

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Date: 28 Mar 94 19:22:00 GMT
From: korz at iepubj.att.com (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Subject: decoctions and enzymes/Red Star starters/aeration/Chimay takeover?

Jack writes (quoting wyatt):
>     >Also anyone have any suggestions for insulating my Brewpot
>     when mashing?  <snip>
>
>     sometime's worry about destroying enzyme viability although I have
>     never had a problem).
>
>I think you are creating a problem where none exists.  Compare what you are 
>considering with the absolute enzyme destruction in large proprotions of the 
>mash with decoction.  

I agree with Jack (sheesh) that enzyme destruction should not be a big
worry if you stir periodically while heating and if you're careful to not
overshoot your temperatures.  However, I don't think comparing enzyme
preservation in decoction mashing is applicable.  From reading Greg Noonan's
Brewing Lager Beer and his articles on decoction, I believe that most of
the enzymes are in the liquid part of the mash and this is why he recommends
that you take the thickest part of the mash (mostly grain, little liquid)
for the decoctions.  The enzymes would be preserved in the liquid while
surely all the enzymes in the decoctions themselves would be denatured.
In the final decoction (the one that takes you to mashout) the thinnest
part of the mash is taken (mostly liquid) and therefore the enzymatic
activity is completely stopped at this point in the process.  Note that
another reason for avoiding as much of the grain as possible in the final
decoction is because, at this point, any liberated starch would not have
any enzymes to convert it, leaving a starch haze.

*************
Jonathan writes:
>Yahoo! I just brewed my biggest batch ever, 100 gal. Had a some problem
<snip>
>I used Red Star Ale yeast, pitching it into 4 cups of a malt\water
>solution at 95 degrees following the instructions on the package. After 5
>hours, there was no activity, so I made another starter, this time starting
>at 90 degrees. After 4 hours, there was some activity, but not much. In a
<snip>
>Next morning, no activity. Yikes!! In a full panic, I went to the local
 
First of all, despite what the package might say, you should rehydrate
the yeast in pure, sanitary water and not wort.  The additional osmotic
pressure of the wort inhibits the water absorption and slows down the yeast.
Secondly, if you used only one package of Red Star in a 100 gallon batch,
you probably underpitched more than brewers who use Wyeast without a starter
in their 5-gallon batches.  If I were you, I would have use 10 to 20 packages
of yeast in a 1-gallon jug of boiled-then-chilled-to-100F water.  The
beer will probably turn out just fine, but next time you'll rest easier if
you use more yeast.

***********
Jim writes:
 to do its thing, he says "The surest way to introduce a sufficient amount of
 oxygen is to splash the wort around as you pour it into the fermenter."
 
 Would too much aeration produce nasty oxidation crud?  Does just transferring
 the wort to the fermenter aerate it enough (without having to splash it
 around)?

The key is the temperature at which you aerate, for two reasons:

1. if you aerate hot wort (say, over 80F) you will then have oxidation
of wort components and it will produce that "nasty oxidation crud" --
i.e. sherrylike flavors, poor shelf life, low hop aromas, etc.

2. oxygen is more soluble in cooler wort than in warmer wort and thus
splashing around cool wort is generally enough to give the yeast
sufficient oxygen for normal-gravity worts (you don't *have* to resort
to airstones and pumps -- also, high gravity worts (say, above 1.075)
would benefit from additional aeration, but you can do it by splashing
longer/more).

A datapoint:  an 1100 OG Barleywine which I aerated simply by pouring the
cooled wort into the carboy through a funnel and then swirling the carboy
some more (used a 1 liter starter of Wyeast American Ale #1056) won a
second place in this weekend's Brewers Of South Suburbia competition.

******
Rob writes (quoting Steve):
>Chimay has been taken over by Interbrew (the brewers of Stella Artois) late
>last year. There has been a noticeable increase in the amount of Chimay
>available since then (especially USA ?). Therefore IMHO not all Chimay is
>being brewed at the monastry. This was confirmed by a Belgian brewery contact
>I have. Also same applies at Maredsous.

I'm sure this is a cruel joke.  Indeed, Chimay White (White cap and Cinq
Cents) has been contract brewed for a while now, but by *another Trappist
brewery* (Rochefort, I believe).  I have noticed a similarity between Chimay
and Rochefort 10 and would not be surprised if they used the same yeast.  I
can't see Chimay being taken over by Interbrew.  Even more disturbing would
be if Maredsous was taken over by Interbrew -- they are the brewers of Duvel
as well as the four Maredsous beers.

Al.

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Date: Mon, 28 Mar 94 15:14:45 PST
From: b_turnbaugh at csc32.ENET.dec.com
Subject: Filters

Would someone point me to the digest that described using a filter between
two soda kegs??? Or if someone has first hand info please email be some
suggestions.  Thanks Bob.

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Date: Mon, 28 Mar 1994 15:25:29 -0800 (PST)
From: Zach Fresco <zfresco at bush.edu>
Subject: non alcoholic?

I have a friend who is not on the net who recently started a batch of 
beer.  However he forgot to siphon it into the secondary and so its been 
in the primary for about 2 weeks.  Is the bear ruined?  It doesnt seem 
infectes so should he throw it out and start over or just bottle it.

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Date: 28 Mar 94 09:00:00 -0600
From: Thomas_Fotovich-U2347 at amail.mot.com
Subject: patron saint of brewers...

     Steven Tollefsrud wrote
     
     >RONALD DWELLE wrote...
     >>Is there a patron saint of brewers (or homebrewers)?
     
     >I believe that St. Arnold is the patron saint of brewers and beer.
     
     I do believe that it's St. "I'll be Boch" Arnold who is the patron 
     saint of brewers and beer.
     
     
     Okay.  Somebody had to say it 8-).
     
     
     Paddy Fotovich
     Motorola/UDS
     u2347 at email.mot.com
     "I'm not an actor and I don't play one on tv."

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Date: Mon, 28 Mar 1994 17:37:34 -0800
From: Ted Manahan <tedm at hpcvcdq.cv.hp.com>
Subject: Oregon Homebrew Competition
Full-Name: Ted Manahan

			      ANNOUNCING
			       
			   THE 12th ANNUAL

	       OREGON HOMEBREW COMPETITION AND FESTIVAL

		  On Saturday, May 14, 1994 at 12 noon.
   Benton County Fairgrounds - 110 SW 53rd Street, Corvallis, Oregon.

Sponsored by The Capitol Brewers, Cascade Brewers Society, Heart of
the Valley Homebrewers, Mary's Peak Lagers, and the Oregon Brew Crew.

		   With Special Guest Fred Eckhardt

For full information regarding the competition please send e-mail to Ted
Manahan at internet address tedm at hp-pcd.cv.hp.com


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Date: Mon, 28 Mar 94 23:37:00 EST
From: mrmike656 at aol.com
Subject: Teflon Coated Pots?

Greetings -
     I was looking for a pot to make small batches of starter wort. My wife
spotted one that was just the size I was looking for, but it was Teflon
coated. Is a Teflon coated pot okay to brew in?

Mike Maimone

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Date: Mon, 28 Mar 94 18:33:56 EST
From: Tim Lawson <lawson at clcunix.msj.edu>
Subject: aerating wort

  Jim Constantopoulos asked aerating wort.  Most of what I've read suggests
that simply splashing your wort around it not enough to aerate the wort 
properly.  Oxygen in the wort is necessary for proper yeast growth and it
does not produce oxidation prior to the onset of fermentation.  The 1992
special edition of Zymurgy has some nice ideas on aerating wort.  I use a
method based on the ideas presented by Larry Barello (p.34).  I have a
hard plastic racking tube in which I drilled 4 holes (1/16" diameter) about
one inch down from one end.  This end it attached to a soft racking tube so
the holes are not covered.  The soft tube is connected to the spigot of my
bottling bucket which contains 5 gallons of cooled wort.  The hard plastic
end it inserted into my 6.5 gallon glass carboy and I rack the wort.  The
holes suck in air as the wort is transferring.  The drawback to this method
is that the air is not sterile.  However, I've had no contamination problems.

Tim Lawson               
Behavioral Sciences Department 
College of Mount St. Joseph   
Cincinnati, Ohio 45233-1670 
lawson at clcunix.msj.edu    


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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1384, 03/29/94