HOMEBREW Digest #1400 Sat 16 April 1994

Digest #1399 Digest #1401

		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor

  Reciculating wort and RIMS (Bob Jones)
  Survey research on small brewers. ("N. S. Miceli")
  Iodine, Yeasty Flavor, Sparge pH, Fruit Extracts (R. KEITH FRANK, DCR&D B-1222, 409-238-9880)
  Grant's Celtic Ale (WESTRA_MICHAEL/HPATC2_02)
  To Mash or Not to Mash? (Kevin Emery DSN 584-2900  )
  Japan ("Daniel E. Listermann")
  Grain vs. Extract $ (PRATTE)
  Dortmunder Recipes? (officerron)
  MacEwan's Strong Ale ("Glenace L. Melton")
  Early bottling / Jeff did it (npyle)
  RE: resusing yeast slurry/corny keg CO2 probs ("McGaughey, Nial")
  Glass Canes and Co2 (ELQ1)
  BW/Yeast/autolysis (braddw)
  Re: Extract vs. All Grain (Drew Lynch)
  Yeast Labs Yeast (pasti)
  Torrified Wheat (Andrew S. McKenzie)
  Homebrew Digest #1398 (Ap (Bill Rust)
  Czech Pilsner Yeast ("CANNON_TOM")
  Weizenbier Priming (Todd Jennings)
  Re: Peter Austin & Hop Perculators (Jim Busch)
  All Potato Mash (GANDE)
  Re: wort pH (Jeff Frane)
  Brew of the month clubs (Eugene Sonn)
  cheapskates/mini-jugs (RONALD DWELLE)
  doctored beer (btalk)
  Priming with brown sugar (Tim Anderson)
  Carapils (Michael Inglis)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 14 Apr 1994 07:57:34 +0900 From: bjones at novax.llnl.gov (Bob Jones) Subject: Reciculating wort and RIMS As some of you might have guessed the comment to Miller in the latest Brewing Techniques about recirculationg wort was from Micah. I haven't even read the article yet, but Micah's point on recirculation is that the lipid stripping can cause stability problems in your finsihed beer. This was also one of the points in the article we coauthored in Zymurgy. These problems may only show up if you ship your beer or it is stressed in some form, like when you ship it to a competition. If you want to test your beers for stability, try taking several bottled beers and elevate their temp up to about 90-100 deg f for several days. The longer they stay clear and taste good the better. Haze forming can be from bacterial problems as well. Micah told me recently that he routinely takes sample bottles from the breweries bottling line and stress tests them. He has had his beers tested at Coors and got really good marks. I wish he were still around to give more details on these tests. The RIMS issue never occured to me until I read it here. I would say that RIMS made beers would be less stable than none RIMS made beers. I'll leave the proof/disproof as an execise for the student. Just one more reason I'm an anti-rims zealot. Cheers, Bob Jones bjones at novax.llnl.gov Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 94 10:34 CDT From: "N. S. Miceli" <BA0845 at UOKMVSA.BACKBONE.UOKNOR.EDU> Subject: Survey research on small brewers. Dear Homebrew Digest and Beer-L List Members, I want to thank those of you who were kind enough to point me in the right direction regarding published sources for brewing industry data. Your help has made the research for my paper much easier than it would have been otherwise. I hope that you will not mind too much if I ask you for a few minutes of your time, and information which you possess. I would like to gather data on small brewers, micro-brewers, brew pubs, etc. How you identify yourself doesn't matter. But I would like to gather data which will let me compare this segment of brewers to the large brewers. I can guarantee that I will keep all responses confidential. I will be the only one to see individual responses. Any data will be used in the aggregate, or to develop statistics (e.g., average capacity, productivity ratios, etc.). If an individual's response could identify them (e.g., as the only person in a class), then I'll combine their data into another category. The information I'm looking for is similar to that which I've gathered from the Brewers Almanac. If the list members want, I could send the statistics (averages, etc.) on the HBD for you to see. But if anyone would object to even this type of presentation, I won't put it on the list. I would like to be able to develop trends over time (e.g., annual increases in brewing capacity), but that information may not be readily available for everyone. I'd like to see as much or as little information as you'd care to send me. If you like, you can respond to the following questions on this e-mail, and just send it right back to me. If not, sorry to have bothered you. If you have any questions, please feel free to contact me directly. Nicholas Miceli Doctoral Student (Management) University of Oklahoma ba0845 at uokmvsa.backbone.uoknor.edu (405) 325-3244 = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 1. In what state are you located? 2. How many brewing facilities do you operate? 3. How would you describe your operation (micro-brewery, brewpub, etc.)? 4. What types of beer or malt beverages do you produce? 5. Are they sold or consumed on-site, off-site, or both? 6. What other ways do you sell or market your products? 7. Who do you consider your main competition? 8. What was your first year of operation? 9. In that year, and each year since then (or for as many years as you'd care to provide data) what was your volume of production? Please help me out. If you measure production in barrels, let me know how many gallons a barrel is. If you use gallons, than that's great. Just let me know what your unit of measure is. 10. In your first year of production, and each year since then, how many total persons did you employ? How many of them directly worked on producing beer? 11. In your first year of production, and for each year since then, what was your total dollar investment in brewing or brewing-related equipment? 12. Tell me about yourself. How did you get involved in brewing? What do you like and dislike about running your business? What do you think is the biggest opportunity for your business? What do you think it the biggest threat to your business? Any other information which you would care to share would be appreciated. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 1994 12:26:31 -0400 (EDT) From: /R=HERLVX/R=AM/U=KLIGERMAN/FFN=KLIGERMAN/ at mr.rtpnc.epa.gov Subject: Smoky Mountain Stout Just a report on a sample of bottled stout from the Smoky Mountain Brewery in Waynesville, NC. Our homebrew club (TrUB) had a stout night and had commercial samples of stout including Old 38, Dragon Stout, and Young's Oatmeal Stout. As I was leaving the store I saw Smoky Mountain Ale-"A stout" brewed in NC so I thought I would give it a try. We tried this last so we could compare it to the better known commercial stouts. Well it has been awhile since I opened a bottle and had it shoot up in my face. Yes, it was a gusher and so was the other bottle. To be fair maybe it was just this lot; however, it was a poor beer with off flavors, little body and worse than many homebrews I have had. I was disappointed as I was hoping more good brews would be brewed in NC. Anyone else sampled beers from that brewery or have any info. on it? Andy Kligerman Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 1994 13:24:19 -0400 From: keithfrank at dow.com (R. KEITH FRANK, DCR&D B-1222, 409-238-9880) Subject: Iodine, Yeasty Flavor, Sparge pH, Fruit Extracts From: Bruce DeBolt, Brew Bayou Club, Lake Jackson, TX To address some messages in recent days: 1. Iodine After having some sanitation problems I switched from bleach and rinse to iodophor (BTF brand) and no rinse. I've made 10 batches without any problems. Dosage is 1 Tb per 5 gallon or 1/2 tsp per gallon. Let sit at least two minutes (minimum time). Of course your container should be clean first. Iodophors must be acidic to work, typical products are formulated with acid to a pH range of 3.5-5.5. This allows them to work in somewhat basic water (my tap water is pH 8.5), just make sure there is a yellow to amber color. Shelf life stability of the concentrate is very long, but I don't have an exact number. To conserve iodophor treat your carboy first, then use that solution for everything else. It is much more cost effective to buy the big bottles of BTF (1 liter) than the smaller ones. 2. Yeasty Flavor When I switched from dry yeast to liquid yeast the residual yeasty flavors in my beers, especially pale ales, disappeared. I have always made a starter with liquid yeast - 2 Tb extract in 2 cups water, plus 2 hop pellets. Boil, cool, pitch. Pitch in fermenter within 12-24 hours. To date I've used Wyeast American, European (Alt), and English ale. 3. Sparge pH Miller recommends lactic, phosphoric, and/or gypsum for adjusting sparge water to 5.7 in his book. An award winning brewer at the local homebrew supply says just get it below 6.0. My brew water is essentially free of ions and neutral (pH 7.0) - I use 1 tsp gypsum (to get some mineral content) and 1/4 tsp lactic acid to hit pH 5.7-5.8. 4. Fruit Extracts I've used cranberry and peach extract from St. Patrick's in Austin. I split a 5 gallon pale ale batch in half and used 2 oz. of each flavor. The peach had a lot of aroma, and some flavor. The cranberry was stronger in flavor, and somewhat tart - better overall than the peach for the base beer brewed. One thing to keep in mind is extracts are pure flavor, there is no sugar. To taste like "fruit" you want some residual sweetness. For pale ales use a less attenuative yeast (such as Alt) and/or mash at higher temperatures. Watch the hop additions. My pale ale was too bitter for the peach flavor. I'll be bottling a pale ale this week with peach, cranberry and pear extacts, will let you know how it goes. See HopTech's catalog for more details on bittering and extract dosages (1-800-DRY-HOP). 5. HOMEBREW COST - ALL GRAIN, BULK EXTRACT, CANNED EXTRACT I originally wrote this article for our homebrew club newsletter. You can adjust the economics to suit your local supplier or recipe, but it serves as a good general example. The following is a comparison of making Generic Ale using four options based on a simple recipe. For prices I used typical numbers from an area retailer. There are discounts by going elsewhere and those will be mentioned at the end of the article. I'll assume a 5 gallon batch yielding fifty two 12 oz. bottles. The simplest recipe is based on a hopped extract kit with added corn syrup. The other options use only malt, either extract or all grain. I've assumed that the extract kit is lightly hopped and kept the hop content moderate in the other options. The ratio of grain to extract is based on a guideline of 7 gravity points per pound of liquid extract vs. 5 points per pound of grain. In actual practice most brewers would probably add other things to their brew, such as specialty grains, but this example will be kept simple. Basis prices Canned hopped extract, 3.3 lbs $12.00 Brewery grade corn syrup $1.50/lb Bulk liquid extract $2.00/lb Bulk grain $1.00/lb Hops $1.25/oz. Priming sugar $0.50/batch Dry yeast (liquid - add $1-3) $2.00 Options for making batch: - Kit #1 - Canned extract with yeast packet included. 2 lbs corn syrup added to increase gravity. This beer would taste "lighter" than those below, so it wouldn't compare exactly. - Kit #2 - same as Kit #1 but two cans used to achieve higher gravity, better malt flavor, with no corn syrup. - "Bulk Extract" or "All Grain" according to the following Generic Ale recipe: Liquid extract 6.6 lbs (to equal amount in can extract) or All Grain 9.2 lbs (7/5 ratio vs. extract) Hops 2 oz. (1 oz. bitter and finish) Dry yeast 1 package Priming sugar 1 cup THE BOTTOM LINE Kit #1 Kit #2 Bulk Extract All Grain Malt 12.00 24.00 13.20 9.20 Corn syrup 3.00 - - - Hops - - 2.50 2.50 Yeast - - 2.00 2.00 Priming sugar 0.50 0.50 0.50 0.50 TOTAL 15.50 24.50 18.20 14.20 Price/bottle 0.30 0.47 0.35 0.27 Price/6 pack 1.80 2.82 2.10 1.64 As the table shows the main cost is malt, usually followed by hops, then yeast. For higher gravity beers the malt or grain cost goes up and everything else stays about the same (sometimes extra hops). Extract companies do the mashing for you so it costs more than grain. As you move towards the right in the table (starting with Kit #2) costs go down and control over the final beer goes up. The most obvious conclusion is that for cost reasons, if you like all malt beer you should buy bulk extract or go all grain, it is much cheaper than buying cans. HOW DO YOU LOWER THE COST? For an all malt brew the cheapest way to is to go all grain. Liquid yeast can be re-used if you are careful about sanitation. Some people really lower the yeast cost by re- using several times, or by culturing multiple slants from the original package. I've been re-using it once per package with no problems (12 batches), saving the rinsed dregs from the primary. This brings the cost down to dry yeast, or less. If you have cheaper ingredient prices this can significantly affect the economics. For example (from a mail order catalog): Liquid Extract $1.65/lb Dry Extract $2.35/lb for 3 lb, $2.00 lb for 50 lb Grain $0.55/lb for 50 lb bag Hops $2.40 for 3 oz., $8.50 for 16 oz. Dry Yeast $1.00 Liquid Yeast $3.50 If you substitute the cheapest of these prices in the table above the Bulk Extract 6 pack drops to $1.28 ($11.08 batch) and the All Grain 6 pack is only $0.98 ($8.48 batch). If a home brewer can make a six pack for under $1.00, imagine how low the ingredient costs in a six pack must be for the big breweries! Bruce DeBolt c/o keithfrank at dow.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 94 13:26:00 -0400 From: WESTRA_MICHAEL/HPATC2_02 at i3125ent.atl.hp.com Subject: Grant's Celtic Ale Greetings... Does anyone out there in HBD-land have an extract/specialty grain recipe for Grant's Celtic Ale? I received a six-pack of this stuff from "Beer Across America" in March and LOVED it. It is lower in calories, lower in alcohol, light in body... but has a super burnt (almost coffee-like) flavor. If you don't have a recipe, does anyone have an idea on what kind of grain/malt gives this kind of flavor? Please reply to the Digest or to: mwestra at stpaul.msr.hp.com Thanks and Cheers, Mike Westra HP-St.Paul mwestra at stpaul.msr.hp.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 94 13:51:37 EDT From: Kevin Emery DSN 584-2900 <ksemery at cbda9.apgea.army.mil> Subject: To Mash or Not to Mash? I have a quick question about mashing. Up 'til now I have been just an extract brewer and have invested large amounts of money into my kegging system. Now there are external controls which are keeping me from spending more money on this hobby of mine. My brew kettle will safely boil 3 gallons of water. Until I am allowed to purchase a mash bin, could I: Mash 2 gallons of water with all the grains. Dump this into a sparging bag in the primary fermenter, and sparge with water until the level comes up to 3 gallons. Bring this back to a boil and finish brewing as with kits. I realize I won't get everything out of the grains, but it would cost less than kits. If this works, it would allow me and others to try their hand at all grain brewing without investing more $$$. Is this worth the effort? Return to table of contents
Date: 14 Apr 94 15:07:24 EDT From: "Daniel E. Listermann" <72723.1707 at CompuServe.COM> Subject: Japan Rob Reed, Your friend can find homebrew supplies through: Sadat Yamanaka N B Japan LTD 301 Mlyanaga Bldg 1-5-1 Motoakasaka Mineto-ku Tokyo 107 Japan They carry our stuff in Japan. His phone number is (03) 423-6060. His english is excellent. Dan Listermann Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 1994 15:22:36 EST From: PRATTE at GG.csc.peachnet.edu Subject: Grain vs. Extract $ This note is just to keep the flame going. It was nice to see several recent all-grain brewer's fess up to the hidden cost in all grain (ex. propane cost, mashers, lauter tuns, etc.). According to their data, I would have an initial up-front cost of between $180- $270 to convert to all-grain (and before anybody jumps in about building the equipment yourself, remember tools, supplies and sweat cost money). They also state that the cost for grain and fuel run them about $8-$9 for a 5 gallon batch (This is, of course, excluding the occassional person who get get their grain from their local microbrewery for a couple of bucks). Considering that I can purchase enough decent quality malt (Northwestern, Yellow Dog, for example) for the same batch at about $10-$15 and that it only cost me about $.10 per boil for electricity, this means that the cost differential is about $2-$7 per batch. At the lower end, this means 90-130 batches to recoup the cost; at the upper end, 26-39. Last year, I brewed 17 batches. This means that it would take me a minimum of 2 years to recoup the up front charges for my beer. By the time I do recoup my losses, there's a good chance that I will have to start replacing some of this equipment. Now, there is a good chance that people out there can do this a lot cheaper (remember, too, that I could make extract beer a little cheaper by using some cheaper adjuncts). The point is, it seems to me that economics (especially when you consider the time) are not a good reason why to switch to all-grain. Better beer, more control, more fun in your hobby, these are good reasons. However, I have fun making extract beers and enjoy drinking them. I have more fun tinkering with special ingredients (fruits, herbs, honey, etc.) and seeing there effect on the beer than I do with tinkering with protein rest times. The point: to each there own, do it your own way. That's the whole point to homebrew; I don't have to drink what the mass producers make; I have the freedom to drink what I like. There, now back to the fun stuff. John Pratte P.S. : Zima taste like alcoholic FRESCA, not Sprite. Taste compare them and you'll see. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 94 15:19:46 EDT From: officerron at aol.com Subject: Dortmunder Recipes? Hello everyone, this is the second day of my HBD subscription and I have a question...does anyone have a recipe for making a Dortmunder type beer, such as D.A.B. Dark or Dortmunder Union Dark? Any help would be appreciated! Thanks! Ron Renken Washington, IL Return to table of contents
Date: 14 Apr 94 15:05:45 EDT From: "Glenace L. Melton" <71242.2275 at CompuServe.COM> Subject: MacEwan's Strong Ale Request to homebrewers north of the border (i.e. Canada or Scotland): Down here in the Benighted States it is impossible (after years of trying) to buy MacEwan's Strong Ale. Scotch Ale and other, yes, but not STRONG Ale. I have tried emulating this superior product but success is less than apparent. Does anyone NOTB have a clue as to the type of dark grains or sugars that will approximately reproduce MSA? If so, please reply to above CIS address. [END] Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 94 9:57:58 MDT From: npyle at n33.ecae.stortek.com Subject: Early bottling / Jeff did it Michael Ell writes that he bottled his ale early (1.028). I agree that this is early, but you have less to worry about than you might think. If the bottles are truly "similar to Grolsch" then I would venture to say you will not have bottle bombs. The Grolsch bottles are especially thick and the rubber seal at the top will give up before the glass. The other thing you have working for you is that you can easily bleed off excess pressure from these bottles with a quick open-shut. You might cool them first to prevent the beer from gushing out. No worries, mate. ** P.S. to Dave Burns: that Zymurgy article on brewing with sugar was written by none other than the HBDs own Jeff Frane. FYI. Cheers, Norm = npyle at n33.stortek.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 94 13:13:00 PDT From: "McGaughey, Nial" <nmcgaugh at hq.walldata.com> Subject: RE: resusing yeast slurry/corny keg CO2 probs re:Subject: Reusing yeast and misc. >John DeCarlo x7116 <jdecarlo at homebrew.mitre.org> WRITES: >My suggestion (and what *I* do): > Reuse from primary but *wash* your yeast. Washing, even with boiled >and cooled water (instead of an acid-wash which can clean even better), >is relatively easy and you get clean yeast slurry to reuse. Ok, this is kinda obvious (maybe) but for those of us that aren't microbiologists, what is the procedure for *washing* your yeast? I would like to know, as reusing yeast slurry is a common pratice for me, and I have had good luck with pitching from a refrigerated sample taken from the primary. TIA. re: Cornelius keg CO2 dissatisfaction: On getting CO2 into solution, I've had the same problem with too much foam. While my foam/beer ratio steadily decreases with the number of pours during a KegBout (tm), the amount of CO2 in solution is rarely satisfactory. My procedure is: siphon unprimed beer into keg, flush headpace with CO2, seal lid, pressurize to 24psi, shake vigorously, repressurize back to 24psi, then set out on back porch for about 1 week (temps are mid 40's to low 50's) during the week reshaking and repressurizing every other day. on tapping day, depressurize keg and immediately repressurize to about 10psi and dispense. Beer tasted great, but no CO2 in suspension except for about 15 seconds during the initial pour (looks like a pour from a Guinness pub draught). Yes I have a despised 'cobra head' tap. what gives? would putting a little priming sugar help the CO2 along? Sitting in flat beer, and hotbreak infested yeast slurry, I remain- Nial McGaughey, Wall Data #include <standard disclaimer> go <see the egress> Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 94 11:39:28 PDT From: ELQ1%Maint%HBPP at bangate.pge.com Subject: Glass Canes and Co2 Morning all you brew people, After the discussion of contaminated racking canes, I sought a solution to cleaning, first was a Q-tip [tm] drawn thru the cane with fishing line. Also thought of using SS tubing for canes, but you couldn't see thru them. The other came to mind when discussion of glass air locks surfaced, so I took some 3/8 glass tube and made a clean bottling and racking canes. No more dull plastic disposable canes for me, glass is although fragial, it is cleaner in appearance. Next, glass transfer tubing... On another quick note, has anybody else seen Connections, the TLC program? So many advances in medicine,industry and chemicals can be directly related to beer making, one of them is Ether, first found by an inventer who lived next to a brewery and found that if you hang a live mouse just above the fermenting wort, the rat would die. He would save the Co2 and use that as a laughing gas, ether was developed from other expermentations using this gas. What a gas. Ed Quier ELQ1 at PGE.COM ptt 707-444-0718 co.375-0718 Return to table of contents
Date: Thu Apr 14 17:11:55 1994 From: braddw at rounder.rounder.com Subject: BW/Yeast/autolysis One last post on the subject. I don't know who it was (sorry) but someone mentioned that the high alchohol levels would weaken the cell walls of the yeast and it would most likely breakdown thus excreting nasties into the BW. A friend once told me that in bottle conditioned BW's this is part of the style, and that over time the resultant off-flavors will mellow, adding character(?) to the finished product. My question: is my friend full of s**t? Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 94 15:47:57 -0700 From: Drew Lynch <drew at chronologic.com> Subject: Re: Extract vs. All Grain Basically, I am replying to a message which claimed the need for a mini-kitchen in the basement, and 8 hours of free time to brew an all grain batch. It just isn't so. I am an all grain brewer. I changed from extract primarily to get more control over the brewing process (particularly the ratio of fermentable to unfermentable sugars) and save money. My early all grain batchs were of significantly lower quality than my late extract batches. Experience changed this drastically. With more control comes more responsibility. After experimenting with multi-step mashes and pseudo-decoctions, I settled on the single infusion process, 10 gallons at a time. The only equipment that I have now that was unneeded for my previous 5 gallon extract batches is: A powerful propane burner ($65 inc. propane tank), a cutoff keg brewpot ($15 + 3x$2 sabre saw blades) and a 54 quart cooler with slotted copper manifold ($20 + $2). I'm not saying that I haven't bought/built extra toys, but this is what I _needed_ to make the switch. I brew in my backyard. Once I settled on this equipment and process, I also settled into a brew schedule which takes about 4 hours from start to finish, including cleanup. Compared to 2x5 gallon extract batches, I'm coming out ahead. And, in that time is fair amount of free time. The way I'm set up, I need pay little or no attention to the mash or sparge. The only part I watch really closely is the initial boil, to prevent boilover. Don't bet me wrong, I'm a _big_ advocate of enjoying whatever method of brewing you choose, be it chew up the grain and spit it into a pot. I just don't want people to be unneccesarily scared away from alternate brewing methods. Drew Lynch Chronologic Simulation, Los Altos, Ca. A VIEWlogic Company (415)965-3312x18 drew at chronologic.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 94 22:19:22 EDT From: pasti at aol.com Subject: Yeast Labs Yeast Hello All, It's so good to be back. You really miss Cyberspace when your employer tells you not to use it anymore. Anyway, I bought A Yeast Labs Trappist Ale Yeast. The stuff comes in a tube with an expiration date that said August 1994. Well, I pitched into a starter (1 quart) and it's taken well over 2 days for any action to happen(I shake the starter and see if any CO2 comes out of solution). Before this the starter was completely dead. I assumed the stuff was dead and bought a Wyeast Belgian Ale Yeast to replace it. I'm thinking of pitching both. My question is: what's the chance that the Yeast Labs stuff was dead and my starter just kicked in with some infected fermentation? I'd really like to use the stuff if I could. Liquid yeast isn't cheap. Andy Pastuszak Philadelphia, PA Keep those extract reviews coming! I'm getting more requests for the completed product than I am getting extract reviews! Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 94 23:03:06 EDT From: asm at med.unc.edu (Andrew S. McKenzie) Subject: Torrified Wheat After returning recently from London and visiting with several brewers I noticed that most of them add a small percentage of torrified wheat to their mash. The purpose of this is to improve head retention and after stopping by the hand pumps on the way out I did discover that this and other aims where mightily achived. Thinking this practice was unique to English brewers I was surprised to find microbrewers in Penns. and Maryland also adding this to their grist. Nostalgia sweeping over me I look through old Zymurgy's and here again I find reference to this odd grain in the recipe's for English ales. Frustration and perplexity have overtaken me now because for some reason you can't get this poor fellow from any homebrew shops, or at least any I tried (about 20). Well, they did say I could buy a 55lb bag from them but then agian so did Crosby & Baker. So, as this narrative grows longer, my question is where can I get this stuff or why doesn't anyone on a homebrewing level use it. Or mayber a better question would be how can I convince other brewers to call their local shops for it? One clarifier: for what ever reason there is a terminology chasm associiated with this word "torrified" that leads many to direct me to cereal aisle at the local grocery. I don't want puffed wheat for breakfast and I certainly don't want it in my beer. Crosby & Baker's use of this word applies to a hard "pearled" grain. So any help or discussion would be most helpful. A. McKenzie Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 94 21:54:00 -0640 From: bill.rust at travel.com (Bill Rust) Subject: Homebrew Digest #1398 (Ap As a great actor once said, "I'll be bock." ... and so I am. The results are in from the Zima/Shandy field test: I tried Zima with an old favorite, Guiness Extra Stout (hey, I'm planning on making my own stout next Christmas. Don't let that get in the way of science!) In the true spirit of the Scientific Method, I tried several solutions with the following ratios: ZIMA GUINESS COMMENTS ----------------------------------------------------------------------- 50.0% 50.0% At first, effervescent, citrus, thin, too much Zima! 25.0% 75.0% Better. Still too much citrus aftertaste, tho. 12.5% 87.5% Not bad! Guiness Lite?? (kind of an oxymoron, huh?) 0.0% 100.0% Ahhh, there's the rub! Best yet; I think I should patent this stuff! Other observations: I was right about the strength (phwew!). However, I guess I missed the mark on that point. Apparently Shandy was derived to allow the youth of our cousins across the 'puddle' to partake of the wonders of finely made beer (a point that was graciously pointed out by one of our recently tansplanted readership). If you do want to give it a try, just put in a generous splash. It tends to sweeten the stout a bit, make it a bit lighter, and the citrus quality adds a certain... character. I wonder if you could make a Black & Tan with this stuff?? Black & Clear? That concludes my unofficial field test. Any ideas what I can do with the other 5 Zimas? (keep it clean, kids...) SPECIAL NOTE: As I often see notices about new brew pubs and the like, I thought I might mention that a fairly new restaurant/brewery, J.D. Nicks (formerly Wolfgang's) is operating in O'Fallon Illinois (near St. Louis). On April 18, they are opening a homebrewer's supply store (in the back of the restaurant). I have no affiliation; I just think it's great that us 'Boys from Illinois' no longer have to drive 45 minutes, one way, to get to a local supply store. They also plan to start a homebrewers' club, and the masterbrewer had offered to sell Briess malts and starters from the yeasts at the micro-brewery! I think this part of Illinois is finally starting to come 'round! Cheers, Y'all! +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | As he brews, so shall he drink. | BILL RUST | | | Systems Analyst | | BEN JONSON C. 1573-1637 | Shiloh, IL | | Every Man in his Humour [1598], Act II, sc. I | bill.rust at travel.com | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ - --- ~ SPEED 1.40 [NR] ~ Operator, trace this call and tell me where I am! Return to table of contents
Date: 15 Apr 94 08:22:00 EST From: "CANNON_TOM" <CANNON_TOM at hq.navsea.navy.mil> Subject: Czech Pilsner Yeast Message Creation Date was at 15-APR-1994 08:22:00 We're brewing a pilsner this weekend, and decided to use the Czech Pilsner Yeast (WYEAST 2278 - I think). Do any of you all out there have any experience with this yeast - surprises, idiosyncrasies, etc. TIA. Tom Cannon DH Brewery Fairfax/Annandale VA Return to table of contents
Date: 15 Apr 94 09:25:08 EDT From: jennings at readmore.com (Todd Jennings) Subject: Weizenbier Priming Hey all, Now that Spring has more than sprung, I'm working on summer wheat beers. Also, up 'til now I've been priming all my homebrews with corn sugar. My wife has commented that the carbonation just doesn't seem right, and I endeavor to resolve that by priming with malt extract. In this case, I am planning on making a priming starter with WHEAT malt. a) Is this fine to do? I was unsure about the level of fermentables in wheat as opposed to barley. b) How much do I use in my priming wort? Will 1.25 cups do for 5 gallons, just as is recommended for malted barley? Thanx for any help you can provide. Todd 8^) tjenning at readmore.com New York, NY Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 1994 10:18:34 -0400 (EDT) From: Jim Busch <busch at daacdev1.stx.com> Subject: Re: Peter Austin & Hop Perculators > During the microbrewers conference going on the last few days here in > Portland, I talked with one of the representatives from Peter Austin & > Partners, a British firm building breweries and brewpubs around the > world. I was particularly intrigued by their systems because they > appeared to be much less expensive than many, they use open fermenters, > and they were right next to my booth. At any rate, they have something > innovative they call a Hop Percolator, into which the finishing hops are > placed at the end of the mash. It is a closed unit, which soaks the > hops in hot water and prevents any of the volatiles from boiling off. > After the boil is finished, the wort is whirlpooled, then run through > the Hop Percolator on the way to the chiller. They are very hot on this > idea as a way to assure absolutely consistent utilization of finishing > hops, and made a fairly convincing argument in its favor. > > The nature of the operation *requires* that it be closed. In other > words, this wouldn't work at home unless you could pump the wort through > some kind of vessel in which you'd been steeping your hops. But... it > was interesting. Peter Austin is a familiar manufacturer around here (MD). Alan Pugsley has setup Wild Goose in Cambridge, MD, and REd Feather, in Chambersburg, Pa, and the Wharf Rat II in baltimore. I agree that the Hop Percolator is a good thing, but its hardly revolutionary or even innnovative. Its basically a hop back. And you're right, its better if they are closed. A closed system will have water vapor in the head space so oxygen transfer is minimized, hence less of the dreaded HSA (which IMO is over emphasized as a problem for homebrewers, but is certainly a concern for a shipping micro). There is no douubt that the use of a properly designed hop back is great way to go for ale brewers or for any brewers using whole hops. It is quite true that the vessal needs to be big enough to allow a reasonable flow rate of cast out wort. What may be innovative or at least different from classic hop backs is that the wort is whirlpooled to remove trub and hop pellets prior to the Percolator stage. Classic hop backs are usually designed to handle the entire hop load of a batch, the kettle , flavor and finish hops are all run through the hop back. I would imagine that the Percolator would result in better clairity of cast out wort into the fermenters. Open fermentation, its *the* way to make traditional ales. Best, Jim Busch Return to table of contents
Date: 15 Apr 94 15:04:37 GMT From: GANDE at slims.attmail.com Subject: All Potato Mash A person that I don't know that lives very far away from me would like to mash 20 or 30 Lbs of potatoes. Does anyone have any experience with this sort of thing? How does one sparge this obviously gooey mess? Or is it fermented as is and then "processed" I realize that distilling is outside the scope of the Digest, but I thought that this question rested more on the stuck-sparge/fermenting something side of things. Private EMAIL is fine: GANDE at SLIMS.ATTMAIL.COM ....Glenn Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 1994 07:10:30 -0700 (PDT) From: gummitch at teleport.com (Jeff Frane) Subject: Re: wort pH Jack is explaining the Right(TM) Way(TM) to Do(TM) It(TM) > It's best to monitor the mash and wort pH before you do anything to the > water. > > Don't be surprised if you get a few other opinions on the subject but you > will learn more trying my way. > Jack will soon be selling the EasyAcidifier(TM): a bag of cracked malt. The original poster might, in fact, find it valuable to read a little bit about mash pH (maybe not Greg Noonan's book!), to get a few more [informed] opinions. Jack occasionally sticks his neck out, assuming that whatever [presumably] works for Jack will work for all. Apparently, Jack is under the impression that water is water, no matter where you are. It is true that measuring the pH of the mash is of more valuable than measuring that of the tap water. Jack may not have noticed, but the contribution from grain can vary considerably, depending on the nature of the grist and the method of mashing. I've lost track of the original poster, so apologies for leaving out his name. But, whoever you are, you will probably get more value by the correct use of gypsum, in your case. If you contact your local water department, they will send you a copy of your water analysis (assuming, of course, you are in a municipal water system). With this and a decent brewing text (perhaps Miller's book is a good place to start), you should be able to make some simple additions. Come to think of it, the simplest explanation I've seen was in Dave Line's Big Book of Brewing, and he offered a handy chart for additions for various beerstyles as well. Although Jack will apparently disagree, control over your brewing water is *enormously* important to an all-grain brewer, and one of the most essential elements in successfully brewing to style. You cannot brew a pale ale with Munich water, anymore than you can brew a Dunkel with Burton water. Really, Jack. - --Jeff Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 1994 10:37:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Eugene Sonn <eugene at sccs.swarthmore.edu> Subject: Brew of the month clubs I know someone posted a list of several brew of the month clubs a few months ago. Could someone with a copy e-mail it to me, please? A friend of mine wants to sign up for one, but needs to compare what's out there. Thanks in advance, Eugene Sonn Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 94 10:56:40 EST From: dweller at GVSU.EDU (RONALD DWELLE) Subject: cheapskates/mini-jugs As the cheapskate who started the discussion, let me chime in again. I don't keep great records, but while I was doing my taxes last night, I let my "quicken" take out all the check stubs to the brew-source shops for last year. This covered all my grain and other supplies for 21 5-gallon batches, except for some molasses, the water, a few weird spices I tried out of the cupboard, and the natural gas in the stove. For 1993, cost per 5-gallon batch was $8.79. I think I'm lower than some other postings mostly because I re-cycle liquid yeast as much as I can (until I start to worry about it). (Did someone really say that they use a brand-new Wyeast package for EVERY batch?) In equipment, I'm a cheapskate too and don't go in for the hi-tech gizmos that the high-fliers use (we cheapskates call those people "hobbyists"), unless I can find the gizmo at a garage sale for less then $1. Last year I "rented" two carboys for $14 (actually, it's a deposit at a water place, so I could get the money back, I suppose), and I bought an el-cheapo 33-quart boil pot on sale, $17, which I made into a sort-of-rube-goldberg-schmidling-like mashertunboiler, using parts scrounged from the basement. I've maybe spent a total of $10 in $0.99 airlocks, stoppers, plastic hose, etc. in the last year (that's mostly included in the $8.79 above). (I dont' know how much I have in bottles--maybe $25-- but it's not quite an expense, since I could take them all back and get a refund.) For grainer-newbies, I say, you CAN spend big bucks for all-grain brewing equipment (easy), but then we throw you out of the cheapskate club and turn your name over to the Republican National Committee. While I'm in the cheapskate mode, let me inquire. I like the idea of the mini-kegs but blanch at the expense (and I'm not too crazy about the construction of the things--especially whatever the lining is that can't stand bleach). But, look, I've got all these heavy-walled 3 and 4-liter wine bottles (Gallo, Carlo Rossi, and other cheapskate samples of the vinter's art) lying around that I just have to take back to the re-cycler. They all seem to have the same screw-threads on top, they're nice and green, they fit in my fridge, and they even have a little carrying handle. Can't someone make a dispenser/CO2 thingy like the one that sits atop the store-bought mini-keg, but which would fit a big wine jug? WHAT A GREAT IDEA! I'll even lay aside my cheapskate mantle and buy the first one that one of you entrepreneurs manufactures (at a reasonable price, of course). Or maybe just an adapter for the mini-keg model? Are you out there, Jack? Cheers, Ron Dwelle (dweller at gvsu.edu) Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 94 11:26:50 EDT From: btalk at aol.com Subject: doctored beer I want to do a 'doctored beer ' program for my club. Basically, this is lacing corporate beers with flavorings, spices, chemicals to mimic off flavors and aromas. I have some info but am wondering what else is out there. the main things are what to use and how much. regards,Bob Talkiewicz, Binghamton, NY <btalk at aol.com> Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 94 08:29:16 PDT From: tima at wv.MENTORG.COM (Tim Anderson) Subject: Priming with brown sugar A small, but meaningful, data point: A beginner friend and I did a double batch of porter. We did a 5 gallon boil, chilled, evenly divided into two carboys, diluted with equal amounts of Bull Run water, pitched an evenly divided 2 liters of starter (Wyeast London Ale), fermented in the same room, and gave each carboy an equal amount of affectionate petting during fermentation. At bottling time we primed one with 3/4 C of corn sugar, boiled in a bit of water. We primed the other with the same amount, by weight, of brown sugar, boiled in an equal bit of water, for the same amount of time. I don't remember how much the sugar weighed, how much water it was, how long it boiled, what the weather was like, or whether my socks matched. So far, (her beer is gone, mine is getting close) noone has been able to detect any difference whatsoever between the batches. Your mileage may vary. tim Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 94 08:34:18 PDT From: mri10 at mfg.amdahl.com (Michael Inglis) Subject: Carapils I was reading Miller the other day and noted that he contends that Carapils malt is added as a specialty grain primarily to aid in body through the introduction of larger proteins into the wort. He also recommends mashing the grains with the main mash and mentions nothing about residual sweetness associated with the grain. He seemed to imply that the residual sweetness of Carapils is a "myth" brought about by the common homebrewer's misunderstanding that dextrines contribute to body and mouthfeel, while it is actually protein (i.e. since Carapils does add body and dextrines are what add body to beer, then Carapils must contain dextrines.) I have stimulated discussion in this forum a couple of times on this subject in an effort to better understand the effects of Carapils on the final product but I still don't feel that the complete picture has been painted. Would anyone care to comment on Miller's assertions? Have personal research or observations corroborated them? Mike Inglis mri10 at mfg.amdahl.com Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1400, 04/16/94