HOMEBREW Digest #1457 Thu 23 June 1994

Digest #1456 Digest #1458

		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor

  Re: SPEED SPARGE(tm) & YEASTY FLAVOR (Dion Hollenbeck)
  Kegs from scrap (Jeff Frane)
  Re: Beer keg "crimes" (Dion Hollenbeck)
  A recipe for MGD (Michael Froehlich)
  Counterflow Chiller extras (John Glaser)
  Finding Brewpubs (Fred Waltman)
  Dallas brew & world cup (Jason Sloan)
  Saratoga Brewpubs??? (Bob Bessette)
  Duesseldorf, Bierstadt (Jamie Magee)
  invert syrup; Alt yeast (Jonathan G Knight)
  spruce & Mexican Pubs (Jay Weissler)
  Scorching (Bob Monroe)
  Re: Cloudy beer (Automagical Mail Responder)
  Deriving formulas from tables (Gary S. Kuyat)
  Keg Ownership/THANKS! (Lee Hiers)
  Online resources (TG436)
  Beer thru Customs/Beer recomendations (Tony McCauley)
  re: Beer keg "crimes" (Dick Dunn)
  treatise on hangovers (Rick Dante)
  Req. for EEC mail order supplies (John Oberpriller x7937)
  Another outlaw... (alan l causey)
  Re: Dry Malt or Liquid Malt (Tel +44 784 443167)
  A couple of questions... (alan l causey)
  Coopers yeast (ANDY WALSH)
  NDN: Homebrew Digest #1447 (June 11, 1994) (Gateway)

Send articles for __publication_only__ to homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com (Articles are published in the order they are received.) Send UNSUBSCRIBE and all other requests, ie, address change, etc., to homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com, BUT PLEASE NOTE that if you subscribed via the BITNET listserver (BEER-L at UA1VM.UA.EDU), then you MUST unsubscribe the same way! If your account is being deleted, please be courteous and unsubscribe first. FAQs, archives and other files are available via anonymous ftp from sierra.stanford.edu. (Those without ftp access may retrieve files via mail from listserv at sierra.stanford.edu. Send HELP as the body of a message to that address to receive listserver instructions.) Please don't send me requests for back issues - you will be silently ignored. For "Cat's Meow" information, send mail to lutzen at novell.physics.umr.edu
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 21 Jun 94 09:32:56 PDT From: hollen at megatek.com (Dion Hollenbeck) Subject: Re: SPEED SPARGE(tm) & YEASTY FLAVOR >>>>> "Tim" == Timothy Sixberry <tsixber at msrapid.kla.com> writes: Tim> The first thing I would like to know is why do other brewers take Tim> so much time to sparge? I've heard times like one and a half to Tim> two hours for spargeing. My sparge only takes about 15 to 20 min Tim> with five gallons. I get really good extration rates too. So Tim> Whats up with the 1&2 hour sparges. My sparges are this short also, due to the fact that I use the pump from my RIMS system at slowest speed to pump wort from mash tun UP to my wort boiler. In that manner my sparge boiler and wort boiler are above the mash tun and pump and I do not have to have a high tower. My extraction rates are about 85% of "book" values as stated by Miller (about 29 ppg for pale malt). I have been concerned that I should be sparging more slowly, but the last runnings are just barely sweet and very light colored, the draff is not sweet at all. The SG of the last runnings is down around 1.005 so it appears to me that I am getting all I can with that short of a sparge. My only concern is that a fast sparge may be causing some astringency. dion Dion Hollenbeck (619)675-4000x2814 Email: hollen at megatek.com Staff Software Engineer Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 1994 09:39:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeff Frane <gummitch at teleport.com> Subject: Kegs from scrap I've been meaning to mention this for months, and an exchange with Ulick Stafford reminded me: for those brewers in Oregon or nearby, I noticed a nice big pile of beer kegs in a warehouse at Winkler Scrap Metal. I meant to give them a call some day, but haven't, so have no idea how much they want. The ones I saw were old, probably Golden Gates(?), and it seems to me there were some quarter-barrels in there. Winkler is at 3365 SE 17th (for now, apparently they'll be moving), and at (503) 231-0799. - --Jeff Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 94 09:45:34 PDT From: hollen at megatek.com (Dion Hollenbeck) Subject: Re: Beer keg "crimes" >>>>> "Louis" == Louis K Bonham <lkbonham at beerlaw.win.net> writes: Louis> In a letter published in the May/June issue of *Brewing Louis> Techniques*, the President of Sierra Nevada recently opined Louis> that it was a crime (specifically, theft and/or receipt of Louis> stolen property) for homebrewers to use a brewery's keg (i.e., Louis> to buy a keg of beer, not return the empty keg and forfeit your Louis> deposit, and then convert the keg to a boiler or what have Louis> you). I have heard Jim Sulier of SABCO make similar statements. Louis> While I can certainly understand the economic arguments made by Louis> these individuals, from a legal standpoint (and I am an Louis> attorney), I have serious doubts as to their accuracy, at the Louis> very least under Texas law. I find nothing in either the Texas Louis> Penal Code or the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Code that would make Louis> this a crime, or would limit the apparent authority a Louis> distributor or retailer to pass legal title to a keg to a Louis> purchaser; indeed, I can think of several doctrines that a Louis> person can acquire legal title (a/k/a ownership) of a keg Louis> *regardless* of what's written on the keg or what the brewery Louis> may want or have in its contracts with its distributors. Louis> However, I'm quite ready to be proven wrong. Anybody out there Louis> have any straight dope on this? How about a reference to a Louis> statute or applicable regulation? (I already know about the Louis> labeling / mismarking laws, and they don't affect the issue of Louis> who "owns" the container -- they only regulate what can be sold Louis> *in* them.) Or is this, as it appears, just so much hype? I agree with you that there may be ways to obtain legal title to a keg, but I think the point is that the brewery is the legal owner, not the distributor and the distributor has no right to pass legal title to anyone, this can only be done by the legal owner, the brewery? Right? And since the brewery has invested over $100 in the keg, I doubt that until the keg is "worn out" they would be willing to pass legal title to anyone for a measly $12 deposit. I see no reason why Alcoholic Beverage laws should apply at all or even mention legal title to kegs, since kegs are not alcoholic beverages. It seems to me that kegs would fall under common property laws and as such, if I loaned you my lawnmower and you sold it to someone else, I think I would have the right to prosecute and win against the buyer, given that I could prove legal title in the first place, and neither you nor he could come up with a bill of sale. Why shouldn't it be exactly the same for a keg? I mean, it may not have a serial number, but every one is surely emobossed with the brewery name, and without a complete and legal chain of bills of sale from brewery to end possesser, the end possesor cannot prove legal ownership. This precisely what SABCO is providing with the keg, is legal chain of ownership since you can produce a bill of sale from SABCO and they can produce a bill of sale from the brewery. I am *not* a lawyer and therefore these are just my opinions, not facts. Dion Hollenbeck (619)675-4000x2814 Email: hollen at megatek.com Staff Software Engineer Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 94 09:55:47 -0700 From: froeh at trojan.naa.rockwell.com (Michael Froehlich) Subject: A recipe for MGD Please don't flame me before I speak. I am getting married :-( :-) :-( :-) next week (July 2nd) in Ft. Worth, TX. I have made 40 gallons of beer and about 9 gallons of mead for the occasion. The beer and mead are being shipped from here in LA to Ft. Worth by truck :( and hopefully will arrive in as good a shape as it did when it left. Well Texas (or at least this part of TX) is in the dark ages as far as good beer is concerned. I couldn't talk my father-in-law into getting a keg of good beer (another rarity in this region, best keg I could get was Shiner Bock, an ok micro beer). Apparently some people are hooked on Miller Lite, Coors Light, or MGD. So, here is my question, 'Does anyone have a recipe for one of these "poor excuse for a beer" beers?' I am going to write up the other recipes ('Honeymoon Scream (Steam)', 'The Groom is Pale, Ale', 'Cranberry Orange Blossom Mead', 'Melon Honey Mead') and I would like to show the domestic recipe as well. With a little lick they may come and appreciate the ingredients of a fine beer vs a cheap American imitation beer. I thank-you Beer People for being you. p.s. If anyone has good names for the meads, I would like to hear them. Michael Froehlich |~~| froeh at ecrsb.naa.rockwell.com | |) "Cheers!" |__| Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 94 10:15:34 -0700 From: John Glaser <glaser at analog.ece.arizona.edu> Subject: Counterflow Chiller extras Tim Hahrner asked me how I was able to insert one copper tube in another. My reply got bounced, and I figured it might be useful for others as well, so here's how I did it: All I did was spend a fair bit of time making sure both tubes were as straight as possible. I suspect that this is probably the most important thing, but you need >40' of space to do it. I found that if I twisted the inside tube while pushing it through, I got over the sticky parts OK. I had both tubes laid flat out on the ground, and lifted as little as possible. If you lift them even a little too much, they will bend under their own weight. Also, I used a little spray lube (WD-40), but I didn't soak the thing in it. Finally, I made sure before I started that the edges of the tube ends were smooth and rounded. Be especially wary of the inside edge of the outer tube, as this is often pushed in by the tubing cutter, and may need to be filed or reamed. All in all, it took me about an hour from cutting the tubing and straightening it to having one tube inside the other. I was surprised at how well it went. I think it helps that the hard copper surface, especially with a little oil, has much less friction than most plastic. I used TSP to clean and boiling water to rinse. Hope this helps, John Glaser (glaser at analog.ece.arizona.edu) Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 1994 08:57:17 -0700 (PDT) From: waltman at netcom.com (Fred Waltman) Subject: Finding Brewpubs There has some comment on how the "publist" at the sierra archives is not updated very often. How about having a volunteer be the "keeper of the list" for their particular "area" (could be a metro area, part of a state, a whole state, depending on size). They could be uploaded to the archives as separate files (in a "publist" directory) and each would have the keepers address ("email changes, reviews, etc. to joe at whosis.com"). That way you download only the section of interest to you and have someone to send comments to. Fred Waltman Marina del Rey, CA waltman at netcom.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 1994 14:26:22 -0400 From: aa3625 at freenet.lorain.oberlin.edu (Jason Sloan) Subject: Dallas brew & world cup I got to see the World Cup soccer (football) match at Dallas this previous friday and it was an unforgettable experience. An interesting note is that the Dallas Brewing Co. sold about as much product as Budweiser did by the look of the lines. The next day I was able to visit their brewery in the West End district and sample a few of their beers. They had 4 on tap, a light, an amber, a pilsner, and another which I can't recall right now. The gentleman who served them to us was a grad. of UC Davis and was one of the brewers there. The tour, unfortunately, consisted of "that's the brewery there on the other side of the glass. You'll understand that we can't actually let you get close to the brewery because you are unclean and will spoil the beer. Oh well. The next stop was the Hubcap, a restaurant/brewery which had opened the night before. This meant that the stout that I sampled still was blowing some yeast out the tap. Too bad, though it was still tastier than the Guiness I get at the market here in mid-America. I decided to try a wheat to go with my fried jalepenos (good, but $6 for 6 small stuffed jalapenos). This one was better. I wanted to try them all but was running short on cash so had to return home. All in all a full, fun, but short, expensive weekend. I think I'll try it again in a month or so! Jason - -- Jason Sloan sloan01?jason at cc01.mssc.edu or aa3625 at freenet.lorain.oberlin.edu - ---Yo ho ho and a bucket of homebrew... Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 19 Jun 1994 22:16:25 EDT From: Bob Bessette <bessette at uicc.com> Subject: Saratoga Brewpubs??? Fellow Brewers, I had a lot of luck with sending an email of this type before I went out to the San Jose area. I was very fortunate to visit many excellent brewbups and enjoyed many California brew. Now I'm asking again. I am heading out to Saratog, NY in mid-July for a softball tournament weekend. I was wondering if anyone knows of any local brewpubs in the Saratoga, NY area. Please email me directly...Thanks in advance... Bob Bessette bessette at uicc.com Systems Analyst Unitrode Integrated Circuits Merrimack, NH 03087 Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 1994 14:16:43 -0500 From: jmagee at netcom.com (Jamie Magee) Subject: Duesseldorf, Bierstadt My hat is tipped to Mike for his interesting comments about Duesseldorf and Altbier. Although I haven't made it there in two years, when I am there, my Stammtisch is at the Oberkassler Hof, just across the Rhein from the Altstadt, and my Sunday Stammtisch is at the Brauerei zum Fuchschen. I often can be found at the Zille, which is right neat the bridge on the Luegalle. I was actually introduced to Altbier in Frankfurt at the Klapper 33 (Frankenheimer Alt).I know this is a homebrew newsletter, and, but any homebrewer would love the Altbier in Duesseldorf. It is quite simply the freshest, most delicious beer made in the world. Now, a few comments about and additions to Mike's letter: it's pretty common to see Germans putting the >coaster over the glass in the summertime when at outdoor biergartens. Keeps >off the yellowjackets. In Duesseldorf they also keep the bill on those deckel. One way they keep the beer fresh is by only serving you a .2 liter glass. By the time you finish it, the Kellner brings you a fresh one. He or she puts a line on your deckel to show how many you bought. Way cool. > Fuchschen, Shumacher, and Shlussel are all good but lack the bustling >my-God-why-doesn't-this-place-burst-apart-at-the-seams atmosphere. Who needs that? I love Fuchschen primarily for the Gegrillte Haxe-Grilled Pig Shoulder that would make the American Heart Association shudder. >And now the real good dirt: You can buy the stuff and take it home. >go to one of D-dorf's BIG department stores (I'd suggest Horton's on Graf- >Adolf-Strasse), and find their grocery section. I've never seen on of those ceramic bottles, but I do know that the local beer distributors sell Uerige and others with Grolsch type tops (I forget at the moment wat those are called). HOWEVER, the beer is stamped with the date for freshness and it should be consumed within three weeks time. Treating beer like milk: That's the respect that beer deserves! I am not sure that it travels well. >Would y'all believe that I found a cold bottle of Schlosser >Alt >at a hotel catering to Germans in Bagamoyo, Tanzania? Those bottled beers that travel outside of the Duesseldorf/Moenchengladbach area just do not taste the same as the beer that you get directly at the source. Schloesser is the best of them though. I would avoid Kutscher. Well, if anyone wants to pay our expenses, I would like to intoduce my wife to Duesseldorf's wonderful bierkultur. Our one year old has kept us from traveling, but in the meantime I've brewed a great porter! Anyone with any recipes for altbier homebrew should send them to me. Thanks for hearing me out! _______________________________________________________________________ - -----------------------------THE MACINTOSH GUY------------------------- Jamie Magee...........................................jmagee at netcom.com - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ++++++++++++++++++++++++Mail will be checked daily+++++++++++++++++++++ - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ALPHAMUALPHAMUALPHAMUALPHAMUALPHAMUCHIPSICHIPSICHIPSICHIPSICHIPSICHIPSI *********************************************************************** Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 1994 15:13:33 -0500 (cdt) From: Jonathan G Knight <KNIGHTJ at AC.GRIN.EDU> Subject: invert syrup; Alt yeast HELP! A long time ago someone published the recipe for making invert syrup. I have mislaid my printout of that posting: would someone do me the favor of re-posting or e-mailing direct to me? Thanks!!! I am gratified to see many of you weighing in to the discussion of Wyeast 1007 vs. 1338 ("will the real Alt yeast please stand up). So far, the evidence seems to be in favor of 1338, although there are some good arguments on the other side as well. For myself, I made a DARN good beer with 1007 that was supposed to be an alt.... Anyone ever used 1338 in a spiced holiday ale? I've never used it at ALL, and my previous essays using 1056 and 1098 were not entirely to my liking. I've been thinking something more malty would be nice. Any thoughts? Jonathan Knight Grinnell, Iowa Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 94 15:57:46 -0500 From: jay_weissler at il.us.swissbank.com (Jay Weissler) Subject: spruce & Mexican Pubs Awhile ago I asked about spruce beers. The happiest sprucers tended to brew a heavier ale as the base beer and add 1-4 cups (volume) of fresh new growth needles to their boil. Typically the needles are added at about the half way mark or later stages of the boil. The one most notable exception to the rule was a light ale spruced with 1/4 lb pine nuts crushed with shell. Those that followed Papazian were less (or not) satisfied. Those who used essence were not satisfied. These results represent the kind contributions of those willing to reply to my request and not a scientific study. Thanks to all contributors! Andy Walsh asks: >Does anyone know where good beer is available in the Mexico City >vicinity? Are there any decent Mexican beers or are they all like Corona in style? Having just returned from fishing in Baja, I can tell you that whatever was mas frio tasted real good to me, even corona. I prefered the Pacifica (as did most locals). The Dos Equis & Carta Blancas were all in cans and sub standard. BTW, If you're old enough to remember dime Cokes, you may want to try a Coke in Mexico. In most areas they are the good old-fashioned CANE Sugar variety of our youth and taste much better the corn sugar variety sold in the states. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 1994 16:28:49 -0400 From: Bob Monroe <monroeb at uicc.com> Subject: Scorching A week or two ago in the HBD, someone (I lost your address) posted an inquiry regarding scorching of wort in his steel/enamel brew pot, along with a request for ideas of ways to prevent this by adding some sort of heat spreader under the pot. I am curious to know if any responses were made to that post. Whoever you are, please post a summary of the responses, if there were any. Thanks, Bob Monroe monroeb at uicc.com P.S. I know I should have bought a Vollrath aluminum-clad pot, but I received a stainless pot as a gift and I plan to stick with it. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Return to table of contents
Date: 18 Jun 1994 00:53:55 -0800 From: "PDXML1" <PDXML1 at pdxml1.mentorg.com> Subject: READDRESS AND RESEND Mail*Link(r) SMTP Homebrew Digest #1453 (June 18, 1 !!!! Original Message >= 24K; See following enclosure. Preview follows !!!! Received: by pdxml2.mentorg.com with SMTP;18 Jun 1994 00:53:43 U Received: from mgc.mentorg.com by rainbow.mentorg.com with SMTP ( 2.08) id AA02648; Sat, 18 Jun 94 00:48:11 -0700 Received: from hpfcla.fc.hp.com by mgc.mentorg.com with SMTP (16.6/15.5+MGC-TD 2.20) id AA05195; Sat, 18 Jun 94 00:48:07 -0700 Received: from hpfcrdg.fc.hp.com by hpfcla.fc.hp.com with SMTP ( 3.20) id AA05445; Sat, 18 Jun 94 01:47:42 -0600 Received: by hpfcmi.fc.hp.com ( 3.22) id AA06449; Sat, 18 Jun 1994 01:00:53 -0600 Date: Sat, 18 Jun 1994 01:00:53 -0600 Message-Id: <9406180700.AA06449 at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com> To: homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com From: homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com (Request Address Only - No Articles) Reply-To: homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com (Posting Address Only - No Requests) Errors-To: homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com Precedence: bulk Subject: Homebrew Digest #1453 (June 18, 1994) HOMEBREW Digest #1453 Sat 18 June 1994 FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor Contents: Cloudy beer (Alexander J Ramos) sources for malted barley (SIMJONES) Early Blooming Hallertau Hops (Mark Evans) Spruce Extracts (Alan_Deaton_at_CTC) CPR cpvers homebrew (Aaron Birenboim) RE: Alt Bier Yeast (Jim Busch) Aflatoxin in moldy grain ("Jeff M. Michalski, MD") Yeasty beer/Malt liquor (Philip Gravel) Propane burners/Grain mill shipping (Philip Gravel) Filtration (George J Fix) Alternative to dry hopping ?? (keith.prader) Starter Media Again (Jeff Frane) Fw: Fw: Fw: Internet Virus Alert (Jim Brewster) cancel article 06161050.1152 (Jim Brewster) Filters and clarification (keith.prader) What's this fuzzy stuff? (Karl Elvis MacRae) Kingfisher Beer and Mark Garetz's Book (Jack Skeels) Australian Pubs (Robert Pryor) re:somebody help me dryhop.. (Steven B Gruver) Rightful brewing (Ilkka Sysil{) dryhopping/oak in IPAs/bottle bombs (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583) Disinfectant (fischer) king kookers (Btalk) Good Baltimore Microbrew Pub (e048???? - Dan Bethke) 1st Annual State Fair of TEXAS H (Ken Haycook) Brass vs. Plastic Valves ("JAMES W. KEESLER") Montreal Beer Fest (Richard Nantel) Floaters Solved by Cold and Drinking ("Andrew C. Winner") A dry hopped beer with really nice legs ("Steven W. Smith") Send articles for __publication_only__ to homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com (Articles are published in the order they are received.) Send UNSUBSCRIBE and all other requests, ie, address change, etc., to homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com, BUT PLEASE NOTE that if you subscribed via the BITNET listserver (BEER-L at UA1VM.UA.EDU), then you MUST unsubscribe the same way! If your account is being deleted, please be courteous and unsubscribe first. FAQs, archives and other files are available via anonymous ftp from sierra.stanford.edu. (Those without ftp access may retrieve files via mail from listserv at sierra.stanford.edu. Send HELP as the body of a message to that address to receive listserver instructions.) Please don't send me requests for back issues - you will be silently ignored. For "Cat's Meow" information, send mail to lutzen at novell.physics.umr.edu - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 16 Jun 1994 09:08:10 -0400 From: Alexander J Ramos <geotex at eecs.umich.edu> Subject: Cloudy beer Greetings: I have been brewing for about 2 years now (from extracts) and I am very happy with my finished products. A problem that I have been unable to beat thus far, however is getting the beer clear. Here is a quick overview of my process: Boil Chill with immersion chiller Filter through mesh collander into primary (poured through) When primary fermentation stops, rack to secondary. When beer clears in secondary, rack to bucket, bottle. I am not using any agents to help clear the beer right now. Does anyone have any suggestion on how to get my beer from being cloudy? - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jun 1994 10:19:05 -0400 (AST) From: S Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 1994 15:51:19 -0600 From: homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com (Automagical Mail Responder) Subject: Re: Cloudy beer (This message has been generated by a program, and is for your information only. No further action is necessary.) Your article has been received for publication in the Homebrew Digest. There are currently 40 article(s) ahead of yours in the queue that will be published first. If you would like to cancel your article for some reason, you may do so any time before it is published, by sending a message to homebrew-request whose body (not subject) contains the line: cancel article 06211551.17801 The cancel request must appear *exactly* as it does above, otherwise the request will fail. No need to put 'please' in there, since the requests are handled by a program. Remember, send the cancel request to homebrew-request, NOT homebrew! Thanks for your submission and your support of the Digest! Rob (program author) Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 94 18:11:57 EDT From: Gary S. Kuyat <gsk at sagan.bellcore.com> Subject: Deriving formulas from tables Full-Name: Gary S. Kuyat I have gotten a few responses to my "build a formula from a table" request that indicate I was unclear. What I am looking for is a program that will output a formula when a table is input. For example: 1 15.3 2 16.6 . . . 20 211 would give .5X^2 - .2X + 15 This way I can make formulas out of my tables, and enter them in my calculator! - -- -Gary Kuyat gsk at sagan.bellcore.com (908)699-8422 Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 94 11:22 EST From: Lee Hiers <0006701840 at mcimail.com> Subject: Keg Ownership/THANKS! I'm not a lawyer, and I don't play one on TV, but... How is the payment of deposit on a keg and treating it as one's own any different than payment of deposit on returnable bottles and keeping them? "Well, if the keg is going to be sliced and diced and permanently defaced it will no longer be useful to the original owner and he should be upset." "Yes, but while the bottles are not usually mutilated, they are pretty much taken out of circulation permanently and effectively lost to the owner. I suppose this can be justified by saying that the bottles "could" be returned at some time in the future?" So, it seems to me that if you've got a problem with "borrowing" kegs, you should also have a problem with "borrowing" bottles. Either that, or you're engaging in the old double standard. While purely a guess, I would think that the Big Boys lose more $ to homebrewers from bottle loss than keg loss. But in the grand scheme of things, (not just homebrewers) there are probably more $ lost from unreturned kegs, which is why they may be more sensitive to keg loss. If you have problems with "borrowing" kegs/bottles - don't do it! If it doesn't bother you - fine! As in all of life, it's your conscience, you've got to live with it. ///////////////////////////// Anyway, I really just wanted to say "thanks" to all on the HBD. I haven't brewed any for about 7 years, and had been thinking about starting back up several times recently, but just couldn't get off my butt. Well, I discovered the HBD and, flames and all, it seems to have inspired me. I now have a pale ale merrily bubbling away in the kitchen. I had forgotten how bad the waiting part was!! Thanks folks! Lee Hiers aa4ga at mcimail.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 94 22:56:50 EDT From: TG436 at aol.com Subject: Online resources Howdy fellow brewers! A while back someone asked for (and got) information on several homebrew BBSs. I would like to compile as near to a definitive list as I can. >From reading HBD I gather there are also lists devoted to mead, yeast and lambics, correct? Does anyone have these 'Net addresses? I also want as many brewing related BBS names and numbers as I can get. Any descriptive info on these boards/lists is also appreciated. Private e-mail to <tg436 at aol.com> is preferred to save bandwidth. I will post the compilation if there is interest. TIA, Tim Goral Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 1994 23:34:39 -0500 (CDT) From: afmccaul at rs6000.cmp.ilstu.edu (Tony McCauley) Subject: Beer thru Customs/Beer recomendations I have one of those opportunities of a lifetime. My sister will be travelling to Scotland and England on a business vacation. She has agreed to look for some beers to bring back for me, but I need to allay her fears about shipping or carrying beer across international frontiers. Since I don't have any experience to call on, I hope that some where out there in HBD land there are a few world travellers that could fill me in on the legal aspects of my request. What kinds of limits are there on carrying alcoholic beverages back into the US? Is there a special duty charged? Anything you think might help? Second question -- Now that I've taken care of the legal aspects of my indirect beer hunting, I want some recomendations for the beers that shouldn't be missed (but could still be safely tucked in a suitcase). I've taken the time to send her much of the information in Greg Noonan's Scotch Ale book (lucky dog gets to spend a week in Edinburgh). What about some other beers that might be available in Great Britian but not in the US? Isn't Budvar (the real stuff, not the American, ahem, imitation) available in GB? Private e-mails are fine unless you think the general public might be interested. Thanks in advance for the help. Hoppy Brewing. Tony McCauley -- afmccaul at rs6000.cmp.ilstu.edu . Return to table of contents
Date: 21 Jun 94 23:43:57 MDT (Tue) From: rcd at raven.eklektix.com (Dick Dunn) Subject: re: Beer keg "crimes" > In a letter published in the May/June issue of *Brewing > Techniques*, the President of Sierra Nevada recently opined > that it was a crime (specifically, theft and/or receipt of > stolen property) for homebrewers to use a brewery's keg > (i.e., to buy a keg of beer, not return the empty keg and > forfeit your deposit, and then convert the keg to a boiler > or what have you)... ... > While I can certainly understand the economic > arguments made by these individuals, from a legal standpoint > (and I am an attorney), I have serious doubts as to their > accuracy, at the very least under Texas law... Tell us...does Texas law not provide for any distinction between the concepts of "rental" and "ownership"? Under the normal procedure of renting a keg, a deposit is made with the renter to ensure that the rented property is returned. The deposit is not intended to represent the value of the keg in a transfer of ownership; it is intended to represent good faith that the keg will be returned to its rightful owner. > ...or would limit > the apparent authority a distributor or retailer to pass > legal title to a keg to a purchaser... The retailers and distributors do not own the kegs, ergo they do not have any right to "pass legal title" for the keg to anyone else. > ...How about a reference to a statute > or applicable regulation?... How about the fact that renting property does not constitute a transfer of ownership? Or are you of the Canter/Siegal net-school that "anything you can get away with (using appropriate lawsuits to intimidate justice) is righteous"? > I'm not saying that everybody should run out and decapitate > kegs right away. However, I have a knee-jerk reaction > to assertions that "x is a crime" without citation, And I'm not saying that "everything which is prosecutable is a crime"; however I have a knee-jerk reaction to assertions that anything you can get away with under the law is OK. Stealing is stealing...even if you're a lawyer! - --- Dick Dunn rcd at eklektix.com -or- raven!rcd Boulder, Colorado USA ...Simpler is better. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 94 23:35:22 PDT From: rdante at icogsci1.UCSD.EDU (Rick Dante) Subject: treatise on hangovers Ronald Narvaez sez: Well I think I have finally found the cure for hangovers. In the "Joy of home brewing" Papizian has a section on the effects of alcohol on your system. In this section it says that the alcohol robs your body of vitamin B complex. Therefor if you take a good dose of vitamin B complex (found at most health food stores) before going to bed along with a large glass of water you should not wake up too hungover. Last weekend was my 29th birthday and I brewed a batch of Goat Scrotum Ale to party with. The brew was prepared as per the recipe except I added more dry extract than called for to increase to kick of the brew. Well the beer was great and I drank and drank and drank some more. Boy did I get a good feeling from all this beer. Before I went to bed I took 3 Vitamins and 2 Tylenol geltabs with 32 oz of water. When I got up I took a hot shower and then ate a good breakfast. Well I didn't have any headache, upset stomach, or that tired feeling. I am not one to drink to excess that often but the next time I do I will repeat this cure and see if it works as well again. Has anyone else tried this or something that works just as well. * I know that the best way to avoid a hangover is not to drink too much, but there is always those few times when the beer just tastes sooooo good. Although my college years (which I'm finishing up this summer) have been all but devoid of wanton partying, when I was back in high-school excessive imbibment and frequent partying were much the same word. I would take a B-complex stress vitamin (you know, the kind with many many times the RDA dosage of each B) before setting out to consume what was usually in the neighborhood of about 10 drinks (gasp!). At least three items always accompanied me to whoever's house: a sleeping bag, which I always planned on using for I always planned to get smashed and would never drive with any booze in my system; Pepto Bismol, which I never used but probably should've; and Advil, which I never used at all. In fact I never had a hangover until freshman year in college on one of the few occasions I drank anything alcoholic. It was blue cool-aid spiked with a bottle of $5 Mexican everclear (definately NOT triple-distilled!) and I didn't have my stresstabs. All I can say about that was that my stomach lining was dyed blue for in the morning I got sick. And after I got sick till there was nothing left in my stomach (or so I thought) to be sick about I drank some water...and then got sick some more: BLUE liquid. It didn't matter how much water I drank and puked...it was all blue liquid. The combination of cool-aid and drink left my stomach dyed blue. And this leads me to my final point (in addition to Ronald's): Pepto Bismol For the longest time I felt that the queezy feeling I get after wanton consumption accompanying the spins which keeps me from sleeping were due to the poisoning effects of alcohol. This always irked me because I could never go to sleep while spinning. It made me feel sick. And so I would get up a do something all night long until I worked off the booze (in high-school I would help whoever clean up their house. Well, often they would be passed out so I would clean up their house. Not because I'm a nice person, but because I couldn't sleep). Well the spinning part is easy to account for. It's a brain thing that I'd be happy to go into (and reconstruct from my 2-year old knowledge of the relevant neuroscience) but I'll try to wrap things up since this is getting quite long. Anyways about the queeze. A lot of the queeze never seemed to be centered in the stomach so I never took my pepto bismol. This sort of makes sense since the sensory status of a whole bunch of internal organs (including the stomach) travel along a single cranial nerver, the Vagus nerve. A little bit of crosstalk can occur making it hard to pinpoint the exact site of pain. Ever wonder why "heartburn" is called such when it stems from the guts? Anyways, once this year when I had a queezy stomach after taunting my stomach lining with homebrew I took my pepto bismol BEFORE going to bed and it got rid of the queeziness. It coats, soothes, and makes your brain ignore the fact that your stomach lining has just fought the gastrointestinal version of World War I. Trench warfare style. With poison gas. So I've probably grossed the entire HBD out with my anecdotal accounts and such but with good reason. I'd guess that most of us will get smashed at least once a year. New Year's Eve. And many will be getting smashed at the intervening festivities. And some will get smashed because of that special homebrew that came out just right and tastes so good that they just can't help nay don't WANT to help themselves (except to the keg or bottles of said homebrew) *. And my advice, which really is nothing new, is to: 1: Take a B-complex stress vitamin before imbibing. I buy the cheapest. 2: Before bed, drink lots of water as per Papazian appendix 4. Take another stress tab now if you like. It might not be necessary though. 3: After the water settles about 5 minutes or so, take a dose of pepto bismol. Again I buy the cheapest I can get. For some reason I like the liquid. If you really overdid it you might need to do the following in the morning: 4: In the morning drink more water (the pepto seems to dehydrate your a little more). And take some more pepto if your stomach needs it but a little breakfast might make you feel better. If you get sick after eating your breakfast: a: your stomach needed the extra pepto and b: your stomach does NOT thank you for over-imbibing. The advice about a nice shower first thing is good too. So in short: The stress vitamin prevents headache hangovers. The pepto helps prevent stomach hangovers. The water helps everything and the shower helps you feel ready to tackle a fresh new day (with a fresh and clean body). It's nothing new but neither are the basic principles of healthy eating and weight loss. Sometimes you just need to hear it for the nth time. Rick Dante rdante at icogsci1.ucsd.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 22 Jun 94 09:42:32 MET DST From: John Oberpriller x7937 <s12int::l375bbk at alcatel.be> Subject: Req. for EEC mail order supplies Hello, I've recently received several requests for addresses of Mail Order Home Brew supply stores in Europe. To my knowledge supplies are only available in the UK and the Netherlands. I'm still checking in Germany. Could someone in each of those countries email me the addresses of suppliers in there area. I'll post the results in a few days. Thanks in advance. **** John Oberpriller **** **** Stuttgart, Germany **** **** Internet: l375bbk%s12int.dnet at alcatel.be **** Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 22 Jun 94 01:45:24 -0500 From: alan l causey <alc at fiona.umsmed.edu> Subject: Another outlaw... Hello, I've read with interest posts by a HBer who calls himself the "Alabama Outlaw" and imagined how exciting his/her life must be to live on the edge - just one short step from the slammer - In my reverie I was tintillated by the thought of a life of crime! When I came back to reality, I was a bit bummed that, no, I was just another ordinary Joe... UNTIL... I was reading in the paper the other day a column called "Ask Jack Sun" (sort of our local info person, and Ralph Nadar - people write in with questions or problems and AJS finds out the info, or calls people and does like Elvis, i.e., takes care of business in a flash). Anyway, someone wrote in asking about homebrewing, and AJS called the state ABC and discovered that home- brewing is ILLEGAL! Here I was, thinking I was just an ordinary lunk, but I'm not..well, OK, I'm still a lunk, but I'm a LUNK ON THE EDGE!! This is particularly interesting in that a couple of weeks ago a friend was featured (with a BIG picture, NAME, and place of employment) in this same paper describing how he brewed a batch of beer (Crying out Loud Ale, Teddy Beer, etc were the monikers) in honor of the birth of his new baby girl, and was passing out bottles like cigars! Well, no revenoors have busted down his door looking for his brewery........YET! Does anyone else out there live in a place as backwards as this - its OK to make wine, but not beer? - go figure.... By the way, does Mississippi law enforcement have any jurisdiction on the Information Superhighway, or is it just the Information Superhighway Patrol? Hoppy brewing BA...Lunk on the edge Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 22 Jun 1994 09:34:18 +0000 From: Brian Gowland <B.Gowland at rhbnc.ac.uk> (Tel +44 784 443167) Subject: Re: Dry Malt or Liquid Malt I've heard some people say that malt syrup gives more body to an ale than malt powder but I think that may be personal preference. They both have physical problems when using - syrup is messy and some find it a pain to handle. Powder absorbs air-borne moisture like a super sponge and is very sticky. One thing to remember is that malt powder is almost all fermentable where as about 75% of syrup is (I think thats right). This means for a given weight of one you need to adjust if you use the other. Apart from that, I've always been told that they can be used interchangeably. A slightly more technical problem with malt extract in general, is if you are using any specialist grains in your brew which need their starchs converted to fermentables. There are two types of extract - diastatic and non-diastatic. Diastatic malt extract contains the relevant enzymes (diastase) to help convert the starchs in the speciality grains. Non-diastatic extract doesn't (obviously). The use of one where the other is specified in a recipe will mean the results might not be what was expected. Brian Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 22 Jun 94 04:22:18 -0500 From: alan l causey <alc at fiona.umsmed.edu> Subject: A couple of questions... A couple of quick questions (private e-mail responses) 1) When in the brewing process does one filter the wort/beer? Seems to me that if one filters from primary--->secondary or secondary--->bottles the yeast would be filtered out--->no yeastie beasties to munch on the sugars to make the ETOH? I can see filtering the wort--->primary prior to pitching.... 2) The wife is forcing me to build a new house - I like where we are now!!! My consolation is that she has promised me that I can have a room (prob- ably a *closet*) which will be dedicated to hiding the brewery from the revenoors (see earlier post from yours truly). The room/?closet will probably have a sink (& might double as the wife's pottery studio - so much for "dedicated"). Now for the question...Does anyone "out there" have any suggestions as to a set up for a small room brewery with the boiling and whatnot outside to prevent CO poisoning? TIA BA...Lunk on the edge Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 22 Jun 94 19:43:53 +1000 From: ANDY WALSH <awalsh at ozemail.com.au> Subject: Coopers yeast Stephen Hudson asked about Cooper's yeast. Our homebrew club members culture yeast from Cooper's Ale bottles quite frequently. We regard it as a very good all purpose ale yeast. I have found it to finish on the sweet side when used in high gravity brews. I suspect it is the same as Yeast Lab A01 Australian Ale for the American readers. I have never used this, but the description in the yeast faq matches Coopers'. Aside from that, as Coopers' is the most easily available Australian yeast (it is bottle conditioned, unfiltered and unpasteurized), it is likely the only Australian yeast available in the USA (to my knowledge) is Coopers'. ("very complex, woody and flavorful...medium attenuation" in the yeast faq) The dried ale yeast is a different strain to the liquid yeast. I have never brewed two identical brews to compare the two, but members in my brewclub prefer the one cultured from the bottle. As Coopers is readily available, why not try a culture? Get a fresh bottle though. Andy W. P.S. This would have been a private message but I was curious if anyone had tried the Yeast Lab A01 out there on the HBD. Return to table of contents
Date: 22 Jun 1994 00:02:39 -0400 From: Gateway at necronomi.com (Gateway) Subject: NDN: Homebrew Digest #1447 (June 11, 1994) Sorry. Your message could not be delivered to: rec.crafts.brewing,The Familiar Spirit (The name was not found at the remote site. Check that the name has been entered correctly.) ========================================================= The Familiar Spirit BBS (201) 837-5914 is necronomi.com FirstClass GUI: General Interest & Files & Occult & More ========================================================= Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1457, 06/23/94