HOMEBREW Digest #1492 Thu 04 August 1994

Digest #1491 Digest #1493


	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  Decoction? (braddw)
  homebrewing in France? (Allan Rubinoff)
  Wyeast 1968 ESB (Norm Hardy)
  milky spore/beetles (Roger Lepine)
  Hops and etymology - a REALLY useless post 8~) (Dan Strahs)
  sanitation/off flavors/aging (Victor Franklin)
  Please Resend.  Amber now w ("AMBER")
  Re: BruProbe/JB Distributing (Jim Grady)
  Mayville, WI brewers? ("Charles S. Jackson")
  Cleveland, Kriek, & Suds (Bill Rust)
  outdoor brewer to be (BToddL69)
  Chlorine/Bisulfite (Philip Gravel)
  Please Resend ("OAKQM3")
  Please Resend ("OAKQM3")
  yeast info (ANDY WALSH)
  Wicked yeasties (Matthew Reagan)
  INBOX Message (See Below) (Mailer.MC1)
  Hopping steam beers (David Draper)

****************************************************************** ** NOTE: There will be no digest administration from July 27 ** through August 7. PLEASE be patient when requesting changes ** or cancellations. ****************************************************************** Send articles for __publication_only__ to homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com (Articles are published in the order they are received.) Send UNSUBSCRIBE and all other requests, ie, address change, etc., to homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com, BUT PLEASE NOTE that if you subscribed via the BITNET listserver (BEER-L at UA1VM.UA.EDU), then you MUST unsubscribe the same way! If your account is being deleted, please be courteous and unsubscribe first. FAQs, archives and other files are available via anonymous ftp from sierra.stanford.edu. (Those without ftp access may retrieve files via mail from listserv at sierra.stanford.edu. Send HELP as the body of a message to that address to receive listserver instructions.) Please don't send me requests for back issues - you will be silently ignored. For "Cat's Meow" information, send mail to lutzen at novell.physics.umr.edu
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue Aug 2 14:52:01 1994 From: braddw at rounder.rounder.com Subject: Decoction? I Tuesday's (8/2) digest the following statement was posted. I'm not entirely sure who is speaking here but, nonetheless it's got me confused. >Date: Mon, 1 Aug 94 12:34:05 PDT >From: berkun at decwet.enet.dec.com >Subject: Mash & Sparge Times Is this the person speaking below? >My (respondent's) process is like this: mash store ground grain in >picnic cooler (same as yours)for about 2 hours, stirring about every 20 >mins or so then doing 2 temp steps (temps depend on style of beer) >taking first runnings for a decoction mash for both (boiling the first >runnings and then adding them back to the mash to raise temp). I then >sparge, trying to keep about 2" of water above the top of the grain as >i'm sparging. adjust the outflow to comnpensate for this. I recycle the >wort as I feel, (if i stir vigorously, or I'm using poorly ((floury)) >ground grain) recycling more to clear cloudier wort. Exactly what is decoction mashing? It was my understanding that a portion of the grist was boiled and then returned to the mash, and this statement suggests that just the first runnings being boiled and and returned is the method. Is there a decoction FAQ? Am I missing something? If so, please forgive my naivete. **** ---- "There's always time for a Homebrew!" ---- **** C|~~| ----------------------------------------------- C|~~| `--' --------------braddw at rounder.com------------- `--' ------------------------------------------- Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 2 Aug 94 14:55:27 EDT From: Allan Rubinoff <rubinoff at BBN.COM> Subject: homebrewing in France? One of my coworkers in our company's Paris office is interested in homebrewing. I offered to try to find out about homebrewing in France. Specifically, the answers to these questions: - Is homebrewing legal in France? If so, are there many homebrewers? - Are homebrewing books available there? (English is OK.) - Where does one get equipment and ingredients? Thanks in advance for any information. If you don't think the answers are of general interest, please e-mail me directly. -Allan Rubinoff <rubinoff at bbn.com> Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 2 Aug 94 13:10 PDT From: norm at polstra.com (Norm Hardy) Subject: Wyeast 1968 ESB I tried to post a long ditty on the 1968 yeast but it bounced back, so here is the short version: it is HIGHLY flocculant and makes a wonderful cask conditioned beer, ready in record time. I ferment the primary in a 7 gallon carboy and after 2 days of ferment, I roused the carboy around and got the stuff to settle out even faster. There is no problem in this because the CO2 has pushed all the oxygen out of the carboy. I made two batches with the 1968: a OG 1.040 ESB and a OG 1.032 brown mild. Both came out smooth with a nice finish. This is one fine yeast! Norm Hardy, Seattle Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 2 Aug 94 16:35:42 EDT From: Roger Lepine <lepine at hpanrd.an.hp.com> Subject: milky spore/beetles The following excerpt was taken without permission from National Gardening Magazine dated August 1990. Pest Control Japanese Beetles / by Lee Reich The milky way It's ironic that the two popular methods of Japanese beetle control -trapping and milky spore disease- are of dubious effectiveness. Yellow traps baited with scent or sex attractants are familiar sights in backyards, and in fact are very efficient in attracting adult beetles. The problem is that Japanese beetles are good fliers, so the traps draw more beetles into an area than are captured. The result: plant damage can actually INCREASE! Milky spore is a bacterial disease(caused by Bacillus popillae) that kills the grubs. (skip stuff) Though milky spore infects grubs in the laboratory, ongoing research suggests that in the field it may not work well, especially in cold soils, such as those found in New England. Today's guidelines are based largely on USDA research of a half century ago. But those scientists inundated large areas with spores, and their inoculant was manufactured by a different method. (end of excerpt). I have found where I live (New England) that this stuff has no affect on beetles. I also understand (from our groundskeeper here at work) that the conditions must be almost perfect for the spore to work anywhere, such as moist soil, warmer winters, or an abundance of grubs. Furthur on in the article he makes a statement that I agree with whole heartedly, "But remember that plants (and hopefully,you) can tolerate some damage, so there's no need to spray at the first sign of attack." Large portions of my hop leaves are missing or full of bullet holes. Will this effect my yield? I doubt it. I'll let them have some leaves if they leave me some flowers. The gentleman who had had his vines completely stripped has a battle on his hands and should try everything (except companion planting ie. marigolds etc. these things don't work IMHO). And finally, I've found that these beetles have a much greater preference for my grapevines and roses than for my hops. Maybe some of you people could throw in a vine or bush somewhere and let the bugs have their way with them. roger l. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 02 Aug 1994 14:57:05 -0500 (EST) From: Dan Strahs <STRAHS at msvax.mssm.edu> Subject: Hops and etymology - a REALLY useless post 8~) Given the recent discussion about where the word 'hops' comes from, I pulled my American Heritage Dictionary off the shelf, ignored the smell of mildew and checked on our favorite flower. Hop (weird characters) - Any of several twining vines of the genus Humulus; especially H. lupulus, having lobed leaves and green, conelike flowers. Plural - the dried, ripe flowers of this plant, containing a bitter, aromatic oil and used in brewing beer [Middle English hoppe, from Middle Dutch. see 'skeup-' in Appendix*] This appendix is compilation of Indo-European root words. So... skeup-: Cluster, tuft, hair of the head. 1) Germanic 'skauf-', Old English 'sceaf-' bundle, sheaf. 2) Germanic 'skuft-', Old Norse 'skoft' hair of the head, scruff 3) Germanic 'hupp' Middle Dutch 'hoppe' the hop plant (having tuftlike inflorescence). The reference the dictionary gives for this interpretation of the Indo-European root is Julius Pokorny's 'Indogermanisches Etymologisches Worterbuch' published in Bern, 1959. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the dictionary or the interpretations of (possibly) long-deceased authorities. But it makes sense to me. After all, hops do go to your head 8~). Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 2 Aug 1994 13:49:54 -0700 From: Richard B. Webb <rbw1271 at appenine.ca.boeing.com> Subject: The beginners guide to advanced and all-grain brewing The beginners guide to advanced and all-grain brewing By Richard B. Webb, the Brews Brother's 1993 Homebrewer of the year The purpose of this guide is to give you the brewer all the information you need to strike off into unknown territory, and to help you become the ultimate brewing god. In it, I will try to communicate my brewing philosophy and techniques. In short, I will teach you the summation of everything I know about brewing and life! Zymurgy (pronounced Zi-mer-gee, with the i pronounced like 'eye') is the study of living, organic chemistry. It seeks to use and manipulate chemical compounds (such as salts and sugars), living organisms (yeast), and a universal solvent (water!) to create a pleasant tasting, psychoactive substance called alcohol. Alcohol is a drug, similar to many other drugs that every culture known to man has used to expand the consciousness, commune with the gods, or just to catch a buzz. Alcohol in general, and beer in particular, may have been the driving force behind the eventual civilizing of the beast, man. After all, without fermentables, there is no alcohol, and without cultivation, and therefore civilization, there are precious few fermentables. Some societies come by their alcohol requirements the hard way, doing all kinds of mean, nasty, stupid things to make it. In modern times, and with modern methods, you and I can drink like kings, if not like gods. The word alcohol describes a range of molecules, formed from carbon, oxygen, and hydrogen atoms. These molecules are formed by the metabolization of certain sugars by living organisms, called yeast, leaving roughly equal parts alcohol and carbon dioxide as a by-product. We use this special ability of the yeast to make various types of beverages which include alcohol. Equipment 1. All grain brewing: What new equipment do I need? 1.1. Boiling pots The process for all grain brewing is actually pretty easy. If you are an extract brewer now, you probably have the beginnings of an equipment pile already. An extract brewer can get away with a three or four gallon boiling container, but this is just a spittoon to serious all grain brewers. The first thing that you need for all grain brewing is a larger boiler. All grain brewing typically produces a gallon of water for every three or four pounds of grain, and it doesn't take much grain before the volumes of water begin to strain that old coffee cup of a boiler. My first bit of advice is to invest in a large boiler, the bigger the better, with a minimum of seven gallons is best. You may find yourself outgrowing even that size of boiler as your brewing plans become more ambitious, so consider getting an even bigger pot to start with. Stainless steel pots are ideal for brewing, but they can be a bit pricy. My first big boiler was an aluminum stock pot, coming to the scale at around eight gallons, but I wasn't very happy with it. The aluminum scratched easily, and stained too readily. Cleaning it up took up layers off the bottom, and fears of excessive intake of molecular aluminum led to the eventual discarding of the pot. If you do use aluminum, do not use it to store wort for very long. The acidity of wort often dissolves the aluminum, leading to discoloration or worse. An alternative to stainless steel is enameled steel. This is made by heating a glaze onto the surface of a cheaper type of steel kettle. This can work for you, but remember that any chip in the enamel that exposes the underlying steel will allow that steel to begin rusting. My advice? Find a used stainless steel mega-pot and use it until you feel the need to upgrade. 1.2. Cooling systems Your old small boiler may have fit just fine in a sink filled with cold water and ice for cooling the wort after boiling, but your bigger boiler will never fit. If you don't have one already, invest in a wort chiller/heat exchanger of some sort, or better yet, learn to make your own. They are frightfully easy to make, and if you can get other people interested, you can sell wort chillers that you've made to them. I prefer the copper coil immersion wort chillers myself. As the hot wort is cooled rapidly, proteinaceous matter (also called floating junk) condenses and precipitates out of solution. An immersion type chiller allows this stuff to settle out to the bottom of the boiling pot before it is transferred to the fermentation containers. If you get really creative, you can build a couple of wort chillers and chain them together, with the first chiller immersed in a bath of ice water, pre-cooling the water before it begins to chill your hot wort. Immersion chillers are best kept clean prior to use, and are sterilized by placing into the wort while it is still hot. If there is any water inside the chiller, especially if there are also air bubbles inside, the heat from the kettle will force the water out of the chiller. Watch your shoes! Another type of chiller is called a counter-flow chiller. This tube inside a tube system allows the draining of hot wort through a copper tube whose outside is being cooled by water. The picture formed is the opposite of the immersion chiller where the wort is on the outside of the tube, with coolant water flowing through the tubing. The counter-flow chiller has the advantage of siphoning the wort from the boiling container into a fermenter at the same time as it is being cooled, saving a step of transfer later on. This idea is seductive, especially if you have no better way to transfer cool wort to the fermenters in the first place. The use and care of the counter-flow chiller is a little more involved than the immersion chiller. Because the counter-flow chiller is much more efficient at cooling the wort flowing through it, the proteinaceous matter that precipitates out of solution tends to stick to the sides of the tube. Care must be taken to completely flush this matter out of the tube prior to the next use. Failure to do so will ensure that your next batch of wort will be contaminated by nasty beasties growing in your chiller between batches. Proper cleaning of the chiller involves back flushing the tube with a series of nasty chemical baths which themselves leave residue which may taint future batches! I guess you can tell which kind of chiller system I prefer. The system you pick depends on what your priorities are. You can choose high efficiency, balanced against the need for intensive cleaning protocol, or you can accept a lower efficiency, easier cleaning system. In either case, pick a system that works for you and your brewing system. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 2 Aug 1994 13:40:31 -0700 (PDT) From: uswnvg!vfrankl at uunet.uu.net (Victor Franklin) Subject: sanitation/off flavors/aging Hi everyone! A friend and I are having a small disagreement about the necessity of strict sanitation practices. He doesn't get the HBD so I am trying to explain some of the information to him. I have even gone as far as making copies of posts and giving them to him. He is unswayed. He isn't nearly as tedious/anal about it (sanitation) as I am and he has never had an infected batch! So I can't really tell him he is doing something wrong. My question is this: what types of off flavors are caused by lack of sanitation, HSA, or general poor handling of beer? -and- Will some of these or all of these flavors mellow or disappear over time? also does hop flavor/aroma get stonger or softer over time? My friends ages his beer about 3 or 4 months in his kegs before he drinks it. So I am thinking that possibly the reason he has to age it this long before it tastes good is because he doesn't treat the beer well and it takes time for the strange flavors to disappear. Could this be the case? ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ The keg FAQ says to age for at least two weeks for a normal (ale) type beer. Why would he need to age his so long before it is any good? any posts to the HBD or private are much appreciated! Victor Franklin vfrankl at uswnvg.com Return to table of contents
Date: 2 Aug 1994 06:05:27 U From: "AMBER" <AMBER at amber.spawar.navy.mil> Subject: Please Resend. Amber now w Mail*Link(r) SMTP Homebrew Digest #1490 (August 02, !!!! Original Message >= 24K; See following enclosure. Preview follows !!!! HOMEBREW Digest #1490 Tue 02 August 1994 FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor Contents: INBOX Message (See Below) (Mailer.MC1) Cascades in Anchor Steam clone??? (Dick Dunn) Wyeast ESB 1968 and Sodium Metabisulphite (ANDY WALSH) 5 liter mini-keg questions (John Williams) Harvesting Hops ("Pamela J. Day 7560") Re: Cold Box Paint (Tel +44 784 443167) mild ale recipe request (Patrick Casey) Re: nano-review of bacteria (brewing chemist Mitch) Japanese Beetles (John DeCarlo x7116 ) Re: Attenuation/weizens (Jim Busch) Archive Info (npyle) Yeast Culturing (Terry Terfinko) English pub info (Jim Dipalma) Jim Koch/SA Double Bock (Bob Guerin) IBU's (Douglas R. Jones) French Canada info needed (Miu Wang) Various Topics / Feedback Requested (Louis K. Bonham) Bittering without hops (Sean C. Cox) Randy's Fun Hunter Club ("MICHAEL L. TEED") Oregon brew spots (Marc Hugentobler) calling all aussies (Steve Peters) Mash & Sparge Times (berkun) brewpubs (jehartzl) Hops (Douglas R. Jones) Saxer lemon lager (John Loegering) Re: Canned Beer, HBD #1489 (August 01, 1994) ("Christopher V. Sack") '-acation-va' programs Are OK (Conan-the-Librarian) Plastic Fermenter Help Neede (Phil Miller) ****************************************************************** ** NOTE: There will be no digest administration from July 27 ** through August 7. PLEASE be patient when requesting changes ** or cancellations. ****************************************************************** Send articles for __publication_only__ to homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com (Articles are published in the order they are received.) Send UNSUBSCRIBE and all other requests, ie, address change, etc., to homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com, BUT PLEASE NOTE that if you subscribed via the BITNET listserver (BEER-L at UA1VM.UA.EDU), then you MUST unsubscribe the same way! If your account is being deleted, please be courteous and unsubscribe first. FAQs, archives and other files are available via anonymous ftp from sierra.stanford.edu. (Those without ftp access may retrieve files via mail from listserv at sierra.stanford.edu. Send HELP as the body of a message to that address to receive listserver instructions.) Please don't send me requests for back issues - you will be silently ignored. For "Cat's Meow" information, send mail to lutzen at novell.physics.umr.edu - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 1 Aug 94 02:39:13 U From: Mailer.MC1 at hesdmail.mmm.com Subject: INBOX Message (See Below) InBox Message Type: Error InBox Message Subject: Undeliverable message InBox Message Text Follows: Message not delivered to 'MC2' (Disk full) - ------------------------- Original Message Follows - ------------------------- Message too large (greater than 30000 bytes). See enclosure! - ------------------------- RFC822 Header Follows - ------------------------- Received: by hesdmail with SMTP/TCP;1 Aug 94 02:34:26 U Received: from pigseye.mmm.com by mmm ( 3M/SERC - 4.1/BDR-1.0) idAA27624; Mon, 1 Aug 94 02:44:28 CDT Errors-To: homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com Received: by pigseye.mmm.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA21658; Mon, 1 Aug 94 02:37:47 CDT Errors-To: homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com Errors-To: homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com Received: from hpfcrdg.fc.hp.com by hpfcla.fc.hp.com with SMTP (1.37.109.4/15.5+IOS 3.20) id AA18307; Mon, 1 Aug 94 01:37:02 -0600 Received: by hpfcmi.fc.hp.com (1.36.108.4/15.5+IOS 3.22) id AA03330; Mon, 1 Aug 1994 01:01:00 -0600 Date: Mon, 1 Aug 1994 01:01:00 -0600 Message-Id: <9408010701.AA03330 at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com> To: homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com From: homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com (Request Address Only - No Articles) Reply-To: homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com (Posting Address Only - No Requests) Errors-To: homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com Precedence: bulk Subject: Homebrew Digest #1489 (August 01, 1994) - ------------------------------ Date: 1 Aug 94 02:30:08 MDT (Mon) From: rcd at raven.eklektix.com (Dic - ------------------ RFC822 Header Follows - ------------------ Received: by amber.spawar.navy.mil with SMTP;2 Aug 1994 06:03:35 U Received: from hpfcla.fc.hp.com by opal.spawar.navy.mil (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA09955; Tue, 2 Aug 94 03:50:42 EDT Received: from hpfcrdg.fc.hp.com by hpfcla.fc.hp.com with SMTP (1.37.109.4/15.5+IOS 3.20) id AA15630; Tue, 2 Aug 94 01:45:49 -0600 Received: by hpfcmi.fc.hp.com (1.36.108.4/15.5+IOS 3.22) id AA07181; Tue, 2 Aug 1994 01:00:55 -0600 Date: Tue, 2 Aug 1994 01:00:55 -0600 Message-Id: <9408020700.AA07181 at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com> To: homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com From: homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com (Request Address Only - No Articles) Reply-To: homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com (Posting Address Only - No Requests) Errors-To: homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com Precedence: bulk Subject: Homebrew Digest #1490 (August 02, 1994) Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 2 Aug 94 20:14:25 EDT From: Jim Grady <grady at hpangrt.an.hp.com> Subject: Re: BruProbe/JB Distributing Spencer Thomas had some questions about my BruProbe post so I figured he is not the only one. Here is his question and my reply: > > It's not clear from your post (nor, exactly, from the article), but > does one still have to buy all the parts (except the probe) for the > circuit, and assemble it? > The BruProbe consists of the brass wand with the temperature sensor, a 2 kohm resistor (to prevent ringing), a cable that goes from the end of the BruProbe to the display circuitry, and a 3-pin, male DIN connector. J.B. Distributing also provides a mating connector with the wand so you can easily connect it to your circuitry. BTW, the article incorrectly states that the sensor is the LM34D; it is the LM34C which the author seems to recommend since it has an expanded temperature range. The wand is $20. J.B. Distributing also sells a PC board for making a circuit that will display the temperature. It is a bare PC board with instructions for putting it together and a parts list for ordering the parts from Digi-Key. The circuit is made up of a voltmeter chip an LCD display and some support components. When I learned that the output of the BruProbe was 10 mV/deg F, I decided to just buy a digital multimeter instead (I can put it to other good uses). Even though I only bought the BruProbe, J.B. Distributing gave me all the instructions to help me power the probe properly and get the connections right. I hope this clears up any confusion. - -- Jim Grady grady at hp-mpg.an.hp.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 2 Aug 94 21:08:00 CDT From: "Charles S. Jackson" <sjackson at ftmcclln-amedd.army.mil> Subject: Mayville, WI brewers? I am asking this for my good friend and brewing buddy who is quite computer challenged (does not even own one) but is looking for any brewers in the Mayville, WI area. He, like me, is new to brewing and looking for a local "big brother" to admire (spelled p-e-s-t-e-r) and look up to. I promised him I would ask. So it is done! Secondly, it seems as if, almost on a daily basis, I see another state listed where brewing is illegal. I just saw that CA forbids such activity. To date I count Mississippi, Colorado, Utah, California (?) and this fine state I live in: Alabama. Are there others? Thanks for all of the help I have received from this digest. Steve a.k.a. The Alabama Outlaw - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Brewing beer is far more exciting when it is both a hobby AND a felony! The Alabama Outlaw Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 2 Aug 94 20:50:00 -0640 From: bill.rust at travel.com (Bill Rust) Subject: Cleveland, Kriek, & Suds Thanks Folks! Occasionally, I see requests for pub info here in the Digest, and I have wondered who really responds to those; Now I know. Wow, did I get a lot of enthusiastic reponses to my query. BTW, it seems that Great Lakes Brewing Co. is the clear winner (every single responder recommended it highly!) Also, thanks for the Kriek tips. I'll be trying them out, although it may be Christmas before I can sample it. Several digests ago a reader asked about brewing software. I responded by recommending Suds, but only as a record keeping program. Well, it seems I need to eat my words. I have been evaluating version 3.0a of the program, and I am happy to say that it has a powerful new recipe formulator. Also, if you call Homebrew U. BBS, you can get The Cat's Meow in Suds format. THIS IS A MAJOR UPGRADE!. It's a pleasure to use (although, there are a few minor bugs.), and it's only $20. My apologies to you Suds users out there! BTW, why did Zymurgy ignore Suds in their Software review last spring????? Anyway, thanks for all the kind inputs, and keep up the great work! +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | "If God dwells inside us, like some people say, | BILL RUST | | I sure hop He likes enchiladas, because that's | Systems Analyst | | what He's getting! | | | | --=_=-- | | | | | JACK HANDEY | Shiloh, IL | | Deep Thoughts | bill.rust at travel.com | +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+ - --- ~ SPEED 1.40 #1651 ~ Jazz is not dead, it just smells funny. - FRANK ZAPPA Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 02 Aug 94 23:07:54 EDT From: BToddL69 at aol.com Subject: outdoor brewer to be Help! I've been banished from my kitchen, so it is time to move the operation outside. Therefore, I am in need of some advice on propane beer cookers. Where's the best place to find a reasonably priced,efficient, and sturdy unit? While searching back issues of the HBD I found a reference to Metal Fusion, manufacturer of King Cookers, but there was no phone number/address. If this is a worthwhile source I'd appreciate the info. On a more health/science oriented note, does anyone know of any harmful effects associated with the intense aromas that are prevelant while boiling hops and wort indoors? The KEEPER of my kitchen claims nausea as a byproduct, hence my banishment. TIA for replies. Todd Little Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 2 Aug 94 23:12 CDT From: pgravel at mcs.com (Philip Gravel) Subject: Chlorine/Bisulfite ===> Andy Walsh asks about chlorine and sodium metabisulfite: >Secondly, I remember reading (either in Zymurgy or was it Noonan?) that sodium >metabisulphite was useful in "neutralising" chlorine. So a question for you >chemists - what is the actual reaction? What are the biproducts? Would sodium >met. be useful in treating plastic buckets impregnated with bleach, or for >removing residual chlorine from equipment sanitised with bleach? >Granted the pH of beer and water make sodium met. not useful for sanitising, >but perhaps it could have other uses? Yes, bisulfite will "neutralize" chlorine since chlorine is an oxidizing agent and bisulfite is a reducing agent. The chemical reaction is: Cl2 + Na2SO3 + H2O ----> 2 HCl + Na2SO4 Sodium bisulfite could be used to treat buckets impregnated with chlorine though from a physical standpoint it would probably take as long to neutralize the chlorine as it took to impregnate. According to the above equation, the reaction of chlorine with bisulfite creates hydrochloric acid so the solution would become more acidic. This would degrade the bisulfite by allowing it to be lost as sulfur dioxide: 2 HCl + Na2SO3 ----> 2 NaCl + SO2(g) + H2O - -- Phil _____________________________________________________________ Philip Gravel pgravel at mcs.com Return to table of contents
Date: 2 Aug 1994 03:04:19 U From: "OAKQM3" <OAKQM3 at oakqm3.sps.mot.com> Subject: Please Resend Mail*Link(r) SMTP Homebrew Digest #1490 (August 02, !!!! Original Message >= 24K; See following enclosure. Preview follows !!!! HOMEBREW Digest #1490 Tue 02 August 1994 FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor Contents: INBOX Message (See Below) (Mailer.MC1) Cascades in Anchor Steam clone??? (Dick Dunn) Wyeast ESB 1968 and Sodium Metabisulphite (ANDY WALSH) 5 liter mini-keg questions (John Williams) Harvesting Hops ("Pamela J. Day 7560") Re: Cold Box Paint (Tel +44 784 443167) mild ale recipe request (Patrick Casey) Re: nano-review of bacteria (brewing chemist Mitch) Japanese Beetles (John DeCarlo x7116 ) Re: Attenuation/weizens (Jim Busch) Archive Info (npyle) Yeast Culturing (Terry Terfinko) English pub info (Jim Dipalma) Jim Koch/SA Double Bock (Bob Guerin) IBU's (Douglas R. Jones) French Canada info needed (Miu Wang) Various Topics / Feedback Requested (Louis K. Bonham) Bittering without hops (Sean C. Cox) Randy's Fun Hunter Club ("MICHAEL L. TEED") Oregon brew spots (Marc Hugentobler) calling all aussies (Steve Peters) Mash & Sparge Times (berkun) brewpubs (jehartzl) Hops (Douglas R. Jones) Saxer lemon lager (John Loegering) Re: Canned Beer, HBD #1489 (August 01, 1994) ("Christopher V. Sack") '-acation-va' programs Are OK (Conan-the-Librarian) Plastic Fermenter Help Neede (Phil Miller) ****************************************************************** ** NOTE: There will be no digest administration from July 27 ** through August 7. PLEASE be patient when requesting changes ** or cancellations. ****************************************************************** Send articles for __publication_only__ to homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com (Articles are published in the order they are received.) Send UNSUBSCRIBE and all other requests, ie, address change, etc., to homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com, BUT PLEASE NOTE that if you subscribed via the BITNET listserver (BEER-L at UA1VM.UA.EDU), then you MUST unsubscribe the same way! If your account is being deleted, please be courteous and unsubscribe first. FAQs, archives and other files are available via anonymous ftp from sierra.stanford.edu. (Those without ftp access may retrieve files via mail from listserv at sierra.stanford.edu. Send HELP as the body of a message to that address to receive listserver instructions.) Please don't send me requests for back issues - you will be silently ignored. For "Cat's Meow" information, send mail to lutzen at novell.physics.umr.edu - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 1 Aug 94 02:39:13 U From: Mailer.MC1 at hesdmail.mmm.com Subject: INBOX Message (See Below) InBox Message Type: Error InBox Message Subject: Undeliverable message InBox Message Text Follows: Message not delivered to 'MC2' (Disk full) - ------------------------- Original Message Follows - ------------------------- Message too large (greater than 30000 bytes). See enclosure! - ------------------------- RFC822 Header Follows ------------------------- Received: by hesdmail with SMTP/TCP;1 Aug 94 02:34:26 U Received: from pigseye.mmm.com by mmm ( 3M/SERC - 4.1/BDR-1.0) idAA27624; Mon, 1 Aug 94 02:44:28 CDT Errors-To: homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com Received: by pigseye.mmm.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA21658; Mon, 1 Aug 94 02:37:47 CDT Errors-To: homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com Errors-To: homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com Received: from hpfcrdg.fc.hp.com by hpfcla.fc.hp.com with SMTP (1.37.109.4/15.5+IOS 3.20) id AA18307; Mon, 1 Aug 94 01:37:02 -0600 Received: by hpfcmi.fc.hp.com (1.36.108.4/15.5+IOS 3.22) id AA03330; Mon, 1 Aug 1994 01:01:00 -0600 Date: Mon, 1 Aug 1994 01:01:00 -0600 Message-Id: <9408010701.AA03330 at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com> To: homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com From: homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com (Request Address Only - No Articles) Reply-To: homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com (Posting Address Only - No Requests) Errors-To: homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com Precedence: bulk Subject: Homebrew Digest #1489 (August 01, 1994) - ------------------------------ Date: 1 Aug 94 02 - ------------------ RFC822 Header Follows ------------------ Received: by oakqm3.sps.mot.com with SMTP;2 Aug 1994 03:04:10 U Received: by motsps.sps.mot.com (4.1/SMI-4.1/Email-2.1) id AA12113; Tue, 2 Aug 94 01:06:02 MST Received: from UA1VM.UA.EDU by spsgate.sps.mot.com (4.1/SMI-4.1/Email 2.1 10/25/93) id AA29475; Tue, 2 Aug 94 01:03:20 MST Message-Id: <9408020803.AA29475 at spsgate.sps.mot.com> Received: from UA1VM.UA.EDU by UA1VM.UA.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 2665; Tue, 02 Aug 94 02:59:59 CDT Received: from UA1VM.UA.EDU (NJE origin LISTSERV at UA1VM) by UA1VM.UA.EDU (LMail V1.1d/1.7f) with BSMTP id 3686; Tue, 2 Aug 1994 02:59:54 -0500 Date: Tue, 2 Aug 1994 01:00:55 -0600 Reply-To: Posting Address Only - No Requests <homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com> Sender: Homebrew Digest Redistribution List <BEER-L at UA1VM.UA.EDU> From: Request Address Only - No Articles <homebrew-request@ HPFCMI.FC.HP.COM> Subject: Homebrew Digest #1490 (August 02, 1994) X-To: homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com To: Multiple recipients of list BEER-L <BEER-L at UA1VM.UA.EDU> Return to table of contents
Date: 2 Aug 1994 02:44:27 U From: "OAKQM3" <OAKQM3 at oakqm3.sps.mot.com> Subject: Please Resend Mail*Link(r) SMTP Homebrew Digest #1490 (August 02, !!!! Original Message >= 24K; See following enclosure. Preview follows !!!! HOMEBREW Digest #1490 Tue 02 August 1994 FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor Contents: INBOX Message (See Below) (Mailer.MC1) Cascades in Anchor Steam clone??? (Dick Dunn) Wyeast ESB 1968 and Sodium Metabisulphite (ANDY WALSH) 5 liter mini-keg questions (John Williams) Harvesting Hops ("Pamela J. Day 7560") Re: Cold Box Paint (Tel +44 784 443167) mild ale recipe request (Patrick Casey) Re: nano-review of bacteria (brewing chemist Mitch) Japanese Beetles (John DeCarlo x7116 ) Re: Attenuation/weizens (Jim Busch) Archive Info (npyle) Yeast Culturing (Terry Terfinko) English pub info (Jim Dipalma) Jim Koch/SA Double Bock (Bob Guerin) IBU's (Douglas R. Jones) French Canada info needed (Miu Wang) Various Topics / Feedback Requested (Louis K. Bonham) Bittering without hops (Sean C. Cox) Randy's Fun Hunter Club ("MICHAEL L. TEED") Oregon brew spots (Marc Hugentobler) calling all aussies (Steve Peters) Mash & Sparge Times (berkun) brewpubs (jehartzl) Hops (Douglas R. Jones) Saxer lemon lager (John Loegering) Re: Canned Beer, HBD #1489 (August 01, 1994) ("Christopher V. Sack") '-acation-va' programs Are OK (Conan-the-Librarian) Plastic Fermenter Help Neede (Phil Miller) ****************************************************************** ** NOTE: There will be no digest administration from July 27 ** through August 7. PLEASE be patient when requesting changes ** or cancellations. ****************************************************************** Send articles for __publication_only__ to homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com (Articles are published in the order they are received.) Send UNSUBSCRIBE and all other requests, ie, address change, etc., to homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com, BUT PLEASE NOTE that if you subscribed via the BITNET listserver (BEER-L at UA1VM.UA.EDU), then you MUST unsubscribe the same way! If your account is being deleted, please be courteous and unsubscribe first. FAQs, archives and other files are available via anonymous ftp from sierra.stanford.edu. (Those without ftp access may retrieve files via mail from listserv at sierra.stanford.edu. Send HELP as the body of a message to that address to receive listserver instructions.) Please don't send me requests for back issues - you will be silently ignored. For "Cat's Meow" information, send mail to lutzen at novell.physics.umr.edu - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 1 Aug 94 02:39:13 U From: Mailer.MC1 at hesdmail.mmm.com Subject: INBOX Message (See Below) InBox Message Type: Error InBox Message Subject: Undeliverable message InBox Message Text Follows: Message not delivered to 'MC2' (Disk full) - ------------------------- Original Message Follows - ------------------------- Message too large (greater than 30000 bytes). See enclosure! - ------------------------- RFC822 Header Follows ------------------------- Received: by hesdmail with SMTP/TCP;1 Aug 94 02:34:26 U Received: from pigseye.mmm.com by mmm ( 3M/SERC - 4.1/BDR-1.0) idAA27624; Mon, 1 Aug 94 02:44:28 CDT Errors-To: homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com Received: by pigseye.mmm.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA21658; Mon, 1 Aug 94 02:37:47 CDT Errors-To: homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com Errors-To: homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com Received: from hpfcrdg.fc.hp.com by hpfcla.fc.hp.com with SMTP (1.37.109.4/15.5+IOS 3.20) id AA18307; Mon, 1 Aug 94 01:37:02 -0600 Received: by hpfcmi.fc.hp.com (1.36.108.4/15.5+IOS 3.22) id AA03330; Mon, 1 Aug 1994 01:01:00 -0600 Date: Mon, 1 Aug 1994 01:01:00 -0600 Message-Id: <9408010701.AA03330 at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com> To: homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com From: homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com (Request Address Only - No Articles) Reply-To: homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com (Posting Address Only - No Requests) Errors-To: homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com Precedence: bulk Subject: Homebrew Digest #1489 (August 01, 1994) - ------------------------------ Date: 1 Aug 94 02:30:08 MDT (Mon) From: rcd at raven.eklektix.com (Dic - ------------------ RFC822 Header Follows ------------------ Received: by oakqm3.sps.mot.com with SMTP;2 Aug 1994 02:44:18 U Date: Tue, 02 Aug 94 00:46:09 MST From: homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com (Request Address Only - No Articles) Subject: Homebrew Digest #1490 (August 02, 1994) Reply-To: homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com (Posting Address Only - No Requests) To: homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com Apparently-To: "Paul_Ingersoll-R17164 at email" <paul_ingersoll at oakqm3.sps.mot.com> Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 3 Aug 94 15:48:37 +1000 From: ANDY WALSH <awalsh at ozemail.com.au> Subject: yeast info I have had many requests from people to send them the Compuserve yeast information I referred to in a previous posting. I personally pay for my Internet access, and even worse, I pay per byte of data I send and receive over the net. This multiplies if I send the same data to multiple recipients. So, sorry folks, to all those who requested the yeast info, but I won't send it to you. I would post it to the HBD, but it is very large, and much of the data is advertising material for Advanced Brewers Scientific. I am also uncertain about the legalities of chopping it up and sending the relevant data to the HBD. Interested parties without Compuserve access should contact Advanced Brewers Scientific via email at gummitch at teleport.com. I am sure they would be happy to post their catalogue to you. This catalogue has all the yeast info referred to, along with recommended strains for different styles, and a stack of yeast culturing gear. (I have nothing to do with this company etc.) Andy W. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 2 Aug 1994 16:41:17 GMT From: matthew.reagan at father.com (Matthew Reagan) Subject: Wicked yeasties I just finished a six of Pete's Wicked Lager and, while rinsing the bottles for recycling (twistoffs!), I noticed a trace of yeast on the bottom. Has anyone tried reculturing this stuff? Is it THE yeast or a strain used only for krausening? I wonder the same about the trace of yeast in my Celis White bottles--could I possible use it to get that wonderful clove-ness? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - Matthew Reagan matthew.reagan at father.com - - Dept. of Chemical Engineering reagan at eniac.seas.upenn.edu - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Return to table of contents
Date: 3 Aug 94 02:38:06 U From: Mailer.MC1 at hesdmail.mmm.com Subject: INBOX Message (See Below) InBox Message Type: Error InBox Message Subject: Undeliverable message InBox Message Text Follows: Message not delivered to 'MC2' (Disk full) - ------------------------- Original Message Follows ------------------------- Message too large (greater than 30000 bytes). See enclosure! - ------------------------- RFC822 Header Follows ------------------------- Received: by hesdmail with SMTP/TCP;3 Aug 94 02:35:19 U Received: from pigseye.mmm.com by mmm ( 3M/SERC - 4.1/BDR-1.0) idAA29544; Wed, 3 Aug 94 02:45:25 CDT Errors-To: homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com Received: by pigseye.mmm.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA21862; Wed, 3 Aug 94 02:38:40 CDT Errors-To: homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com Errors-To: homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com Received: from hpfcrdg.fc.hp.com by hpfcla.fc.hp.com with SMTP (1.37.109.4/15.5+IOS 3.20) id AA08234; Wed, 3 Aug 94 01:39:24 -0600 Received: by hpfcmi.fc.hp.com (1.36.108.4/15.5+IOS 3.22) id AA12255; Wed, 3 Aug 1994 01:00:59 -0600 Date: Wed, 3 Aug 1994 01:00:59 -0600 Message-Id: <9408030700.AA12255 at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com> To: homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com From: homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com (Request Address Only - No Articles) Reply-To: homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com (Posting Address Only - No Requests) Errors-To: homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com Precedence: bulk Subject: Homebrew Digest #1491 (August 03, 1994) Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 3 Aug 1994 19:31:34 +1000 (EST) From: David Draper <David.Draper at mq.edu.au> Subject: Hopping steam beers Dear Friends, my contribution to the current activity on steam beers, especially the way they are hopped. Jim DiPalma asks about "inside info"; don't have any except what's in MJ's Beer Companion, which mentions three additions of Northern Brewer. I brewed a steam a while back using the American hops I had on hand; the schedule was 17 g 11.3 Chinook 60 min, 20 g 6.4 Clusters 40 min, and 14 gr 5.4 Cascades 10 min (all pellets, for a 23 litre batch). This gives IBUs in the neighborhood of 40, which is about right I reckon. This produced a pretty decent beer (used Wyeast 2112 BTW), but it was not anything like Anchor, mostly because of the hops (could have used a little more body but that's another story), definitely upholding Dick Dunn's comment about Cascades in the finish not being on target. My most recent batch (partial mash this time, first was extract + spec. grn) is another steam (23 litres, 3 kg pale malt, 250 gr 80L crystal, single infusion, plus 1.25 kg extract syrup, Wyeast 2112) but this time I stuck to the Ungloved One's info, and did three additions of 6.8% N. Brewer pellets at 60, 10, and 2 minutes (IBUs also around 40). The difference is phenomenal, and not only do I think this will end up as the best beer I have made to date, but it is actually going to taste something like a beer that people have heard of <grin>. So based on this exhaustive one-data-point study, I'd say if you want steam, go for the three additions of N Brewer and forget the other suggestions. In particular, there was a recipe a couple digests ago (don't have the details handy) that had British hops and either 1028 or 1098 yeast--no chance for that one IMHO. Finally, one unrelated comment: awhile back someone suggested that Jeff Renner thinks he is his wife. This is obviously absurd. He thinks he is his wife's *computer*. Cheers, Dave in Sydney - -- ****************************************************************************** David S. Draper, School of Earth Sciences, Macquarie University, NSW 2109 Sydney, Australia. email: david.draper at mq.edu.au fax: +61-2-850-8428 ....I'm not from here, I just live here.... Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1492, 08/04/94