HOMEBREW Digest #1494 Sat 06 August 1994
Digest #1493
Digest #1495
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Re: Infection (Bryan Dawe)
Isolating wild yeast (Jeff Benjamin)
Re: Counter Pressure Bottle Filler (Jon Higby)
Plastic Fermenter Help Needed (Jim Ancona)
Wyeast 1338 (Domenick Venezia)
Saaz wars (Douglas R. Jones)
More Saaz Wars (Douglas R. Jones)
My unusual fermentation (Bill Harrigan)
RE: cylindroconical fermentors, whats the big deal? RE:Mead/carboy ("McGaughey, Nial")
Unpleasant postage experience with AHA (allison shorten)
Re: sanitation/off flavors/aging (Tel +44 784 443167)
Re: beginner's guide (John DeCarlo )
Sam Adams & Truth in Advertising (Ian_Sutherland_at_AMSNYO01)
Looking for Corona Mill replacement plates (John Isenhour)
Using Green Beer to Prime (Chris Strickland)
keg system leak (Mike Mueller)
Cost of all-grain equipment (mlittle)
Decoction / Schteem Bier (Robert H. Reed)
suds, pilsner (Jay Weissler)
More beer-related word etymology (Jeff Benjamin)
Waste water management (Tom Wurtz)
Beer survival in Atlanta (Mark A Fryling)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 3 Aug 94 13:42:54 MDT
From: Bryan Dawe <bryand at gr.hp.com>
Subject: Re: Infection
Dan Wood writes of an infection that has been troubling him and some
friends. I don't have my notes handy, so there might be errors in
what I am about to say. Hopefully others in HBD will correct me as
needed. My response to Dan follows.
Based on the symptoms you describe I have reached a fairly firm
conclusion of the nature of your problem . . . And the answer is . . .
[ i think :-) ]
Coliform bacteria present in minute amounts in your water. I would
guess that it is getting into your beer when you *rinse* your fermentor
following sanitization. Below are responses to selected symptoms.
> 2. The infections mostly occur in brews made in late spring and summer.
Seasonal infections are common, particularly in spring/summer since
the air is simply teaming with microbiota. More to the point, municiple
water supplies often change on a seasonal basis. It is reasonable that
the coliforms are only present in your water during late spring and summer.
> 4. It smells of rotting vegetables (definitely not HSA), and has a slightly
> sour taste. The smell is much worse than the taste.
Sounds like dimethylsulfide (DMS) [ H3C-S-CH3 ], often described as
"cooked cabbage." And coliforms make the stuff in large quantities.
> 5. The degree of infection grows exponentially with longer lag times.
Bingo. Coliforms are low pH or ethanol intolerant (uh, I don't remember
which, maybe both). As soon as the yeast get going lowering pH and making
ethanol, the coliforms cease to do their damage.
> 6. The infection has been present in both hazy and clear beers. It does
> not create gushers. There are no visible indications of infection.
The coliform bacteria is either dormant or dead by the time your beer gets
into the bottle. See item 5.
> 7. It seems independent of the yeast: whether dry yeast (usually Yeastlabs
> Whitbread) or generous Wyeast starters were used.
As stated earlier, it is not comming from dry yeast, but your water. As
for yeast starters, how generous? Underpitching is one of the most common
mistake amoung homebrewers. Lets face it, growing all that yeast is a
pain in the butt. Do it. Minimum pitching quantities for a five gallon
batch are slurry from a quart starter for ales and slurry from a two quart
starter for lagers. Dan, you *need* starters this size. Unless you *like*
that aroma in your beer.
Another thing to be careful of is relative temperatures of the yeast and
the beer. Significant differences in temperature at pitching time weakens
or kills yeast, making for long lag times and weak fermentations. You
can not afford long lag times.
> 8. It has happened regardless of whether the siphon was started by
> mouth-to-straw or prefilling the hose with water.
Yes, but if you take steps to sanitize your fermentor rinse water you
might start to see a corrolation with infection and prefilling your
siphon hose with unsanitized water *iff* you siphon your beer from your
boiler to your primary. This item is related to the discussion under
symptom 5 above.
> 9. It is evident in the primary carboy, not caused by racking, kegging,
> or bottling.
Yes, again, see symptom 5 above.
> I managed to avoid it on my last batch (fingers crossed) through use of
> extreme sanitation procedures: 1+ hour bleach-water soaks, rinsing in
> preboiled water, misting all surfaces with vodka, etc. ^^^^^^^^^^
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
There you are. Kill the b*st**ds before they get to your fermentor.
What to do:
1) Adopt methods that avoid use of any unsanitized water prior to onset
of fermentation. Some sanitizing agents do not require a rinse. I
don't recall what they are (I use bleach) but I am sure others in HBD
will gladly assist you here. Another approach is simply to sanitize
your rinse water. Pre-boiling rinse water is arguably the best approach,
but rather difficult. You can also rinse in a weak bleach solution
(one ounce per 5 gallons). This approach is controversial, as you
can well imagine. If the bleach is too strong, you taste it, too weak
and it doesn't do the job. Be careful that the cure is not worse than
the disease.
2) Pitch adequate quantities of yeast as described under symptom 7 above.
3) Call your local water department and ask to speak with the "water
quality lab." You will probably get to talk to the head water chemist,
who is also the only employee of the water quality lab. And she will
probably talk your ear off once she realizes you are not calling
complain about the taste of the water and are really interested in
the water chemistry. Yes, this person likely works alone all day and
may be starved for intelligent conversation about her work. At least
that is the way things are where I live. You can learn a great deal
from such a conversation. This step will help to confirm (or deny!)
the theory I have presented.
Questions to ask: What is the bacteria count? [you might get a "pat"
answer of zero, which is what it is supposed to be. In this case a
concilliatory response of "Gee, I can see how such a strict standard
may be hard to adhear to, do you ever have a problem with bacteria?]
Do bacteria issues vary with season? How does the water supply vary
with season? Do you have more than one source of water?
Ask about nitrate/nitrite concentrations and how they relate to
bacteria in the source water. [There is an important connection
here, but I don't recall what it is. Your local water chemist
will know more than I ever have. Others on HBD will also be able
to help. Anyone?]
Another tack is simply to describe what you ar doing (brewing beer)
and the problem you are having and ask for advice. Say something
like "Sometimes when I brew beer I get this rotten vegatable smell.
Someone I know said this smell might be dimethylsulfide and that
coliform bacteria can produce this compound. Does this explanation
make sense to you?" The chemist will likely have a lot to say about
the topic.
Good luck.
Bryan P. Dawe
Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 3 Aug 94 9:55:00 MDT
From: Jeff Benjamin <benji at hpfcbug.fc.hp.com>
Subject: Isolating wild yeast
My next brew is going to be a Colorado pale ale -- I have 10 lbs of
locally grown and malted barley, homegrown hops, and pure Rocky Mountain
spring water(tm). The only "imported" ingredient will be the yeast.
This got me thinking. How difficult would it be to isolate some local
strain of wild yeast that would make good beer? I've done some
culturing, but I'm not sure I have the expertise or equipment to
accomplish this task.
I imagine the procedure (greatly simplified) would be something like this:
1. Set out a plate of yeast-hospitable medium for a day or so.
2. Using a microscope, pick out single cells of yeast that look like
they may be of different varieties. (How might I do this?)
3. Place each "single cell culture" onto its own plate or slant to grow.
4. Try each yeast strain in a test batch (1 liter?) and rate its
characteristics.
What are the chances that I'd find a strain that worked well? Would it
have to be some variety of S. cerevisiae, or are there other yeast
species that would work? Would I be wasting my time? This certainly
would be a lengthy process. If I found a good strain, could I patent
it, or would it just be a trade secret? :-)
- --
Jeff Benjamin benji at fc.hp.com
Hewlett Packard Co. Fort Collins, Colorado
"Midnight shakes the memory as a madman shakes a dead geranium."
- T.S. Eliot
Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 3 Aug 94 14:29:17 CDT
From: unisql!jonh at cs.utexas.edu (Jon Higby)
Subject: Re: Counter Pressure Bottle Filler
Dan Houg asks about counter-pressure bottle fillers:
CPF (Counter Pressure Filler) are designed to fill a bottle under the same
pressure as the keg is under. This keeps the disolved CO2 from escaping during
the filling. Once the CPF is removed, the bottle needs to be capped ASAP.
I looked into a number of them and ended up buying one from BrauKunst in
Mn. It has a pressure relief valve (releases at about 6 PSI) where all the
others have a valve for releasing the pressure out of the bottle (which
allows the beer to flow into it). I put a finger over the release valve to
control the flow rate. I have no problem filling bottles by myself (have heard
others say that it is a 2-man job).
I've been very happy with it. Price: $36 which included the gas and beverage
tubing and the appropriate quick disconnect for the liquid out line from
your keg. Stainless steel tube, brass joints, brass valves for the gas and
liquid lines. It seemed to me to be the best for the $$.
I've also heard good things about the "Benjamin Products" CPF. Cost is closer
to $55 and it is plastic. Heard bad things about the Fox CPF. St. Patricks
also has a new one - stainless steel, but I haven't tried it ($40).
Jon /
/ Austin
- --
Jon Higby ---- UniSQL, Inc. ---- email: unisql!jonh at cs.utexas.edu
Denial clause: Prices subject to change w/o notice, actual mileage may vary.
Fat-free, high fiber, tastes great. If you've read this far, you must be
looking for this: Any opinions I expressed are just that - my opinions.
Return to table of contents
Date: 3 Aug 94 8:40:21 ES
From: Jim Ancona <Jim_Ancona at dbsnotes.dbsoftware.com>
Subject: Plastic Fermenter Help Needed
In HBD #1490, Phil Miller asks about getting the old beer smell out of his
plastic fermenter. My suggestion is SUNLIGHT. After each batch, I clean the
bucket well, then leave it out in the bright sun for a day. It seems to get
that smell right out of there. Obviously, you must still sanitize the bucket
before reusing it. Good Luck!
Jim
(BTW, does that old beer smell remind anyone else of their college fraternity
basement?)
Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 3 Aug 1994 08:07:50 -0700 (PDT)
From: Domenick Venezia <venezia at zgi.com>
Subject: Wyeast 1338
As some may remember, I re-plated Wyeast's European Ale yeast because the
first plate appeared to be a mixed strain. My results strongly indicate
that 1338 is a mixture (always hedging). One of the strains grows very
fast and vigorously (larger colonies), the other somewhat slower (smaller
colonies). This is consistent with the observation that 1338 is a fast to
start/slow to finish fermenter.
If anyone has a way to verify this with Wyeast I would appreciate it.
Also, if this is a yeast that Wyeast "developed" perhaps a rationale for
the mixed strain might be forthcoming from the company.
By the way I am very happy with the performance of the yeast in my Alt. It
did finish somewhat malty (as hoped) with a low ester profile. The Mt.
Hood tang comes through quite nicely. I'm anxious to try it after 3 weeks
cold conditioning in the 'fridge.
Domenick Venezia
ZymoGenetics, Inc.
Seattle, WA
venezia at zgi.com
Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 3 Aug 1994 16:54:58 -0600
From: djones at iex.com (Douglas R. Jones)
Subject: Saaz wars
>Hi Doug,
> apologies if it sounded like I was telling you off for
>using Saaz for bittering - it wasn't intended that way. Saaz
>in the UK are more expensive than other hops and are regarded
>as giving good aroma and flavour so I wouldn't spend the extra
>if I was simply bittering. If they aren't more expensive where
>you are then that's differnet but it still seems a shame to do
>it. You mention a figure of 4.6% AAU, my book says 5.5% (maybe
>different units) but that is still not very high. There are
>many others including "high-bittering" hops with percentages
>of 9%-12%. Hops are generally categorised as aroma, general
>purpose, bittering or high-bittering. Saaz is considered as
>an aroma hop. I normally "bitter" with general purpose hops but
>for a high bitterness would use bittering or high-bittering
>hops for economy and convenience.
No offense taken. I am being, perhaps, a bit sensitive anyway! I need more
homebrew, quite obviously!
Thanks for your comments and help. Though I have not done extensive
research into costs here in town. Each pkg I have bought (2 AAU values of
Saaz, Hallertau and Kent Goldings has always been the same price) I will do
some price checking in the future.
Many believe for the type of beer I am brewing, which I think may finally
have been determined to be a Brown Ale, using a lower AAU hop and more of
them will yield a better ale.
Doug
- -------------------------------------------------------------------
'I am a traveler of | Douglas R. Jones
both Time and Space' | IEX Corporation
Led Zeppelin | (214)301-1307
| djones at iex.com
- -------------------------------------------------------------------
Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 3 Aug 1994 16:55:35 -0600
From: djones at iex.com (Douglas R. Jones)
Subject: More Saaz Wars
>Date: Wed, 3 Aug 1994 16:50:59 -0600
>To:homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com (Posting Address Only - No Requests)
>From:djones at iex.com (Douglas R. Jones)
>Subject:Re: Homebrew Digest #1491 (August 03, 1994)
>
>>Date: Tue, 02 Aug 1994 12:27:04 -0300
>>From: Ed Hitchcock <ECH at ac.dal.ca>
>>Subject: Bittering hops
>>
>>Douglas R. Jones seems to be taking flak for using Saaz at the brew store's
>>reccommendation. Sazz are not generally used for pale ales. However, for
>>any of you out there flaming poor Doug, have you tried it? Hmm? I would
>>bet that his pale ale is excellent. What some people fail to recognize is
>>that isohumulone is not everything in a hop, and more is not necessarily
>>better when it comes to %aa of hops. As a bittering hop Saaz would not
>>impart its usual spiciness, but would impart its wonderful vegetal flavour.
>>You see, hops are not simply volatile aroma and flavour components and
>>alpha acid. They also contain a whole lot of subtle plant characteristics,
>>many of which remain after a long boil. If you want that english bitter
>>flavour, you have to use tonnes of low-alpha hops, rather than a pinch of
>>high alpha hops, in order to get that earthy, vegetal background note. Try
>>it out. And think about the hops as a whole, not simply as a number on the
>>bottom of the pack. Remember, high alpha hops were devised by big
>>breweries who a) want to spend as little as possible on their product and
>>b) want as little flavour contribution from the hops as they can manage.
>>
>
>>Date: Tue, 2 Aug 94 9:25:25 MDT
>>From: npyle at hp7013.ecae.StorTek.COM
>>Subject: Saaz
>>
>>Sounds like Doug Jones really caught hell from you HBDers over his choice of
>>using Saaz for bittering. If it had been any other hop in the world, Doug,
>>you probably wouldn't have gotten so much flack for it. Its just that Saaz
>>is highly regarded as a finishing hop for the finest lagers. Many people
>>though, including myself, using "finishing" hops for bittering, since they
>>seem to give a less harsh bitterness compared to high alpha hops, even when
>>the same IBUs are in the finished beer. BTW, 4.6% AA is high for Saaz, but
>>certainly not considered a high alpha hop. There are some varieties as high
>>as 15%; I think anything over 9-10% could be considered a high alpha hop.
>>
>>Cheers,
>>Norm npyle at hp7013.ecae.stortek.com
>
>
>Thanks Ed and Norm! While I DID get some rather blistering reply's I must
>admit that the majority of those who mailed me privately offered many positive
>comments to my efforts. For this I am grateful.
>
>I seem to have stumbled upon an interesting issue. The high AAU vs low AAU for
>bittering. Though I have no real reason to do so, I tend to think that the low
>AAU and more of them is the way to go. I guess I just need to look around and
>see what other hop besides Saaz I can use ;-)
>
>I also got some replys (and had one homebrew shop tell me) that
>experimentation when you are a rookie is verbotten! Fortunately many HBD'ers
>and myself find that train of thought to be total bunk! I am brewing for one
>reason and one reason only, 'cause I like to! I am interested in what other
>people think of my beer and exchange with other homebrewer's whenever I can. I
>do not yet belong to a club or the AHA. My current experimentation is to find
>a high body, high malt low bitterness low hop ale. I haven't hit it yet but
>then I am only on round 2. I'll get there. I understand the merits of 'brewing
>to style', but it's not for me. Based on the style guide (thanks Rick and
>Jim!!) I guess the closest I have seen is English Brown Ale. Wrong hops but
>the numbers match. So if someone asks this what they will get told.
>
>I plan on brewing to style later, just as I will revisit some of the kits. But
>for now it's exploration alley!
>
>If anyone is interested I will post the actual recipe and I would love
>comments on what to expect.
>
>Thanks for the help,
>Doug (on the Quest for MY ale)
>
>
- -------------------------------------------------------------------
'I am a traveler of | Douglas R. Jones
both Time and Space' | IEX Corporation
Led Zeppelin | (214)301-1307
| djones at iex.com
- -------------------------------------------------------------------
Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 3 Aug 1994 20:09:45 -0500
From: ttra1908 at uriacc.uri.edu (Bill Harrigan)
Subject: My unusual fermentation
Hi all, I just brewed a batch of brown ale and what happened is I pitched
the yeast at 7:00 in the morning and by 6:00 in the evening, it was foaming
up alot (pretty unusual I thought). anyway, by the next morning, the foam
was going down somewhat, and by that evening, there was no more foam. What
happened? It seemed to be going so nicely at first and then nothing! I
used Edme dried yeast if that makes any difference.
E-mail responses please,
Bill
ttra1908 at uriacc.uri.edu
Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 03 Aug 94 18:16:00 PDT
From: "McGaughey, Nial" <nmcgaugh at hq.walldata.com>
Subject: RE: cylindroconical fermentors, whats the big deal? RE:Mead/carboy
> (3) Assuming a vessel made
> from food grade plastic, would the advantages of a "mini-unitank"
> process be enough for homebrew veterans to switch from glass?
> (4) How much would would people generally be willing to fork over
> for plastic / glass small cylindroconical fermenters?
Indeed... what gives with cylindroconical fermentors, anyways? why are they
the BruBowl (TM) of choice for 'serious' gearhead type brewers, that and
RIMS (Ramtha??) (oohhhmmmm oohhmmm) seem to be the holy mountain of brewing
toys...is it yeast pancake compaction, break whirlpooling or what? flames
invited, Email is fine (assuming out Network is stable (HA!!!)) Brew Heads
with too much dough need to know...
RE:Subject: Carboy airspace
>.I've got a batch of mead that has been aging in the carboy for a few
months
> after fermentation was finished. It's been racked several times,
>so I doubt that there is any more CO2 headspace on top of the mead. The
>mead is several inches below the carboy neck, and I was wondering if I
If you havent been popping the fermentation lock off of the mead, you
shouldnt have any problem, I had a mead that took 6 months to fully ferment
out, and the flavors to mellow. you should'nt have any problems. Also
look into using Bentonite (its a clay..) as a clarifier. 2 applications are
usually what it takes to get your mead crystal clear, and hopefully take any
oxidization(if you have it) components with it...
Nial McGaughey
Wall Data Product Development
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Date: Thu, 4 Aug 1994 13:50:24 +1000 (EST)
From: allison shorten <shorten at zeus.usq.edu.au>
Subject: Unpleasant postage experience with AHA
This post is motivated by Gary Sink's post in HBD 1491 re bogus
discounts on AHA books.
I just had a very unpleassant experience of this nature the other day. A
while ago, I got a glossy leaflet from the AHA advertising a special
pre-release deal on Richman's Bock book, no. 9 in the Classic Beer Styles
Series. As far as I can remember, the order form (which I used to order
the book so dont have any more) quoted a price of $10.15 plus $4 for
postage and handling. I cant recall anything that said any more was
payable for customers here in Australia (or any other foreign country).
But when the book arrived a few days ago, they had charged me $9, or
nearly the price of the book, for postage and handling.
If anyone out there still has an intact copy of the glossy leaflet I
refer to, could you check and let me know whether the order form says
anything which might justify my being charged $9 for postage and handling
on this item, please?
Brett Shorten
Toowoomba, Qld, Australia
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 4 Aug 1994 11:27:31 +0000
From: Brian Gowland <B.Gowland at rhbnc.ac.uk> (Tel +44 784 443167)
Subject: Re: sanitation/off flavors/aging
In HBD 1492. uswnvg!vfrankl at uunet.uu.net (Victor Franklin) wrote:
> A friend and I are having a small disagreement about the necessity
> of strict sanitation practices.
In a disagreement (two or more conflicting opinions) it is almost
always the case that each side can learn something from the other(s),
often to the advantage of all concerned.
> He doesn't get the HBD so I am trying to explain some of the
> information to him. I have even gone as far as making copies of
> posts and giving them to him. He is unswayed.
I hope, in fairness, that you copy this posting to him even
though it is biased more towards his views than yours.
> He isn't nearly as tedious/anal about it (sanitation) as
> I am and he has never had an infected batch! So I can't really
> tell him he is doing something wrong.
You've said a great deal there. I suggest you stop trying to tell
him that he is "doing something wrong" until the day arrives when (if
ever) he makes a bad batch that can be proved to be as a result of
poor sanitation practices. Then you can really gloat! :)
You do not say how bad your friend's practices are so I may be being
unfair. Perhaps he does some really disgusting things but I am
assuming that he at least washes his equipment after use - at least to
the extent that he washes the plates, knives, forks etc. that he eats with.
I do NOT advocate poor practices in any way shape or form but have a real
problem with those who preach sanitation/sterilisation to the level of
paranoia as I have seen many times on HBD and r.c.b. Cleanliness and
common sense should prevail.
I do not use any chemical sterilisation/sanitation agents - I clean
my equipment with washing-up liquid after use (rinsing very well). My
hydrometer and thermometer are simply rinsed under the hot tap after use
and dried with a clean towel. I use English top-working ale yeast and
leave my fermenting vessels open to the air as is traditional with such
yeasts. I use plastic utensils some of which are 3 years old. In the
past few years, I have brewed 30+ batches of brew (kits, extract and
full grain) and 30+ gallons of wine (some kit, some real fruit). I have
never made an undrinkable wine (early efforts were a little yeasty due
to not finishing properley) and only 4 batches of "bad" beer - two were
from the same make of kit which I decided was a poor kit, one (another
kit) had a satchet of hop extract which I added all of instead of
a small amount making the thing VERY bitter and the other was as a result
of flourination of the water where I used to live. None of my friends or
family have ever refused any of my beer or wine and my efforts have
inspired a couple of them to starting making their own. I shall continue
to be less than paranoid about sanitation/sterilisation of my equipment
until the day I get an infected brew. If this ever happens I promise to
tell you all about it so you can say "I told you so".
This message was not intended to offend nor was it aimed specifically
at Victor Franklin. This in my opinion is a candidate for the saying
"Relax, Don't Worry..." etc.
Cheers,
Brian (reaching for his flame-proof suit).
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 4 Aug 94 07:40:56 EST
From: John DeCarlo <jdecarlo at homebrew.mitre.org>
Subject: Re: beginner's guide
Richard B. Webb writes:
>first big boiler was an aluminum stock pot, coming to the scale at around
>eight gallons, but I wasn't very happy with it. The aluminum scratched
>easily, and stained too readily. Cleaning it up took up layers off the
>bottom, and fears of excessive intake of molecular aluminum led to the
>eventual discarding of the pot. If you do use aluminum, do not use it to
>store wort for very long. The acidity of wort often dissolves the aluminum,
>leading to discoloration or worse.
Actually, if lessons learned from cooking apply to brewing, you *want* such an
aluminum pot to be discolored. This means a protective oxide coating has
formed. You are lucky to have this happen, as it means you get no more
aluminum dissolving. If you happen to scrub it shiny, you are in bad shape
once again.
So, like you would with a well-used aluminum pot or pan, wipe food off it, but
try and keep it in the discolored state, as it protects the pot from
dissolving and your food/wort from excess aluminum.
John DeCarlo, MITRE Corporation, McLean, VA--My views are my own
Fidonet: 1:109/131 Internet: jdecarlo at mitre.org
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Date: Thu, 04 Aug 94 08:20:24 EST
From: Ian_Sutherland_at_AMSNYO01 at mail.amsinc.com
Subject: Sam Adams & Truth in Advertising
I have been amused with the controversy of Sam Adams advertisements. In
one of the recent ads you must have heard Jim smashing bottles of SA that are
past their due dates. I guess Jim never reuses his bottles, and I always
believed in special effects!!
Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 3 Aug 94 18:34:22 CDT
From: john at hopduvel.chi.il.us (John Isenhour)
Subject: Looking for Corona Mill replacement plates
I've been experimenting with modifying my Corona, and so far
have made some improvements by fixing the plates so they
are constantly parallel and tuning it etc.
Recently I wanted to modify the grinding plates to see if I
could reduce the amount of shredding of husk. I began to grind the
plates so the grooves were not so sharp. It seemed to be working
as I ground them more and more flat, until I went a bit too far.
I finished it off by grinding them completely flat to see if it
would more like a regular mill. It became really hard to crank.
I began grinding rounded edge grooves back into the flat plates
and might end up with something interesting eventually.
In the meantime, the darn thing is too hard to crank and anyway I'd
like to get some new plates for comparison purposes.
Any ideas on where to find them?
-john
- --
John Isenhour
renaissance scientist and AHA/HWBTA National Beer Judge
home: john at hopduvel.chi.il.us
work: isenhour at lambic.fnal.gov
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Date: Thu, 4 Aug 94 08:51:12 -0400
From: stricklandc at cocoa12.ksc.nasa.gov (Chris Strickland)
Subject: Using Green Beer to Prime
Actually two questions here:
1st: Why can't you just bottle early inside of priming?
2nd: I've heard of people storing a small amount of wort in the fridge, then
using this green beer to prime the batch after fermenting. But I've
heard its complicated to figure out how much green beer to store. So
what's involved in doing this?
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Chris Strickland | Allin1: stricklandc |
| Systems Analyst/Statistician | Email : stricklandc at cocoa12.ksc.nasa.gov |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
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Date: Thu, 4 Aug 94 8:51:52 EDT
From: Mike Mueller <sparky at atf.lle.rochester.edu>
Subject: keg system leak
Greetings All,
Well I've got a slow leak somewhere in my system. I thought I had it fixed when
I put new O-rings on the keg locks and bought a new regulator but I was wrong.
I am using a pin lock Cornelius keg. I've replaced the o-rings around the
outside of the pin locks. I'm using about 12 psi of CO2 and I dump a tank about
every 10 days. I've checked for leaks using a liquid leak check detector and
can't seem to find any. There also a new washer between the CO2 tank and
regulator. The large O-ring on the lid seems to be sealing ok (can;t see a leak)
but maybe I should replace it. I've got a new one from Williams brewing thats
supposed to be better than the original ones.
If anyone has any advice or experiences they would like to share please drop me
a message. This CO2 is expensive!
Many thanks,
- --
Mike
Michael R. Mueller (716) 275-0297
email: sparky at lle.rochester.edu
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Date: Thu, 04 Aug 1994 09:02:00 EDT
From: mlittle at cclink.draper.com
Subject: Cost of all-grain equipment
<<<<<< Attached TEXT item follows >>>>>>
Text item: Text_1
Hi Folks,
A few months ago there was some discussion about the cost of acquiring
equipment for all-grain brewing. I have been buying stuff for that
same purpose, and have been keeping receipts. Note that I *didn't*
try to do this as cheap as possible. I elected to get highest (IMHO)
quality stuff that will last a long time.
The equipment I purchased/fabricated is:
Mash/Lauter Tun consisting of a 10 gal. Gott cooler with a Phils
Phalse Bottom. I replaced the spigot with a valve, and used various
tubing sizes to connect the valve to the false bottom.
Sub-Total $78.02
Wort Chiller is of the counter-flow variety. Length is 25 feet. The
chiller is fastened around a 5 gal bucket and has a ball valve on the
wort outflow end. The valve regulates wort flow, and also allows
filling the device with a sanitizer solution for storage.
Sub-Total $52.29
Brew Pot is a converted 1/2 bbl. Sankey keg. The keg has a hole
drilled near the base with Cu tubing inserted and sealed with some
bulkhead fittings. A Cu pot scrubber is fastened to the 'inside the
keg' end of the tubing, and a ball valve is attached to the other end.
1/2" thread-to-compression fittings on both the keg outflow and
chiller inflow allow connection with a 1 ft. high temperature hose.
Sub-Total $73.80
Brinkman Stove (160K BTU) with a 20 lb. propane tank is the heat
source. I had to have a friend weld some supports on the stove ring
to accommodate the keg's diameter(this can be done at a local weld
shop for $10 - $20).
Sub-Total $81.20
Grand Total $285.31
This setup works _very_ well. Gravity moves the liquids and all
interfaces are mechanical (no siphoning). It may sound to some like a
large investment, but the ingredients for a 5 gal. batch cost $15 less
now as compared with my extract batches. So, it'll pay for itself in
20 batches.
Private e-mail if you want detailed prices and materials, or to
comment.
Mark
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Date: Thu, 4 Aug 1994 09:08:59 -0500 (CDT)
From: Robert H. Reed <rhreed at icdc.delcoelect.com>
Subject: Decoction / Schteem Bier
braddw at rounder.com asks:
> Exactly what is decoction mashing? It was my understanding that a
> portion of the grist was boiled and then returned to the mash, and this
> statement suggests that just the first runnings being boiled and and
> returned is the method. Is there a decoction FAQ? Am I missing
> something? If so, please forgive my naivete.
Decoction is the process of bringing a portion of your mash up fairly
slowly through saccharification temperature range, boiling it for
several minutes, returning it to the main mash, and repeating if
desired. You may do a single decoction to boost you from a protein
rest to starch conversion temp, or a double or triple decoction as
well.
I believe the consensus is to remove the thickest part of the mash
for each decoction to minimize enzyme denaturing during boiling,
except for a decoction used to boost from starch conversion to
mash-out. For this decoction, mash liquid is run-off, boiled and
returned to the mash to minimize unconverted starch brought
back into the main mash by this final decoction.
I think Noonan's 'Brewing Lager Beer' is the best decoction reference
of the commonly available brewing books.
- -- -
Dave in Sydney wrote:
>
> So based on this exhaustive one-data-point study, I'd say if you want
> steam, go for the three additions of N Brewer and forget the other
> suggestions. In particular, there was a recipe a couple digests ago
> (don't have the details handy) that had British hops and either 1028 or
> 1098 yeast--no chance for that one IMHO.
>
IMO, Anchor Steam has a kind of weird bitterness that I beleive to be
unrelated to Northern Brewer hops, but to me seems like a bitterness
that is sometimes obtained in pale, bitter beers made with carbonate
water. Comments?
-Rob Reed
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Date: Thu, 4 Aug 94 09:18:31 -0500
From: jay_weissler at il.us.swissbank.com (Jay Weissler)
Subject: suds, pilsner
Bill Rusts says:
>I responded by recommending Suds, but only as a record keeping
program. Well, it seems I need to eat my words. I have been
evaluating version 3.0a of the program,
Is this a new version? When I look at the HB Index I only see 3.0 How
do I get the update?
Also, Please keep the pilsner recipes coming, so far I've only got
one, several requests for me to forward what I get, and a pointer to
Miller.
thanks
jayw
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Date: Thu, 4 Aug 94 9:31:23 MDT
From: Jeff Benjamin <benji at hpfcbug.fc.hp.com>
Subject: More beer-related word etymology
Dan Strahs <STRAHS at msvax.mssm.edu> gave us the ("REALLY useless" 8~)
etymology for the word hops. I'm curious if anyone has a complete
etymology for the word "bine".
My American Heritage College Dictionary has the following:
bine n. The flexible twining or climbing stem of certain
plants, such as the hop or woodbine. [Alteration of BIND,
VINE.]
vine n. 1.a. A weak-stemmed plant that derives its support
from climbing, twining, or creeping along a surface. b. The
stem of such a plant.
Not much help in determining how hop stems got their own word. My
Webster's Unabridged at home isn't much help either. The alteration
is fairly obvious, but why the separate designation? Any linguists
out there have an answer?
- --
Jeff Benjamin benji at fc.hp.com
Hewlett Packard Co. Fort Collins, Colorado
"Midnight shakes the memory as a madman shakes a dead geranium."
- T.S. Eliot
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Date: Thu, 4 Aug 94 09:26:23 MDT
From: twurtz at neocad.com (Tom Wurtz)
Subject: Waste water management
I have somewhat of a newbie question. I've been solely an extract brewer
for several years and am gearing up to switch to all-grain. I know
what I need now and plan to obtain all that stuff within the next few
weeks or months (I'm in the process of moving and my new home will
have a great brewery in the basement). I plan to make an immersion
chiller, because of the relative ease of making one. My question is
this, here in Colorado, (and I imagine all over the west) we technically
live in a desert and it's considered evil to waste water. I estimate
running water through a wort chiller for 10-20 minutes would send
upwards of 50 gallons down the drain. Do any of you people have convient
ways to reuse the water? What's the word, water conscious brewers?
t
ps. maybe I should collect the warm water into a tub and give my dogs a
bath every time I make another batch o beer. they would love me for that.
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Date: Thu, 4 Aug 1994 08:28:21 -0700
From: Richard B. Webb <rbw1271 at appenine.ca.boeing.com>
Subject: The beginners guide to advanced and all-grain brewing
I guess that people would rather read this stuff than the bounces
of HBD #1490 again and again, so here is yet another installment of
The beginners guide to advanced and all-grain brewing
By Richard B. Webb, the Brews Brother's 1993 Homebrewer of the year
part 2
1.3. Mashing and Lautering
A tun is a container that is used to maintain certain environmental
conditions while
the malt sugar is being created. The mash tun holds the grain in a
soup of water and
sugar during this process. A lauter tun allows the liquid surrounding
the grains to be
drained off, while allowing more rinsing water (the sparge) to be
run through the grains,
allowing even further sugar extraction. One attribute of a good mash
tun is the ability to
allow liquid to flow easily through a straining system incorporated
in the tun. An example
of this kind of mash tun involves a bucket with some sort of false
bottom inside of
another bucket. This sieve design allows the grains to form a filter
bed while allowing the
sweet liquor to flow through the false bottom strainer. I tried this
system, but I wasn't
very happy with it. The sieve design took forever to make, and the
whole thing suffered a
major flaw in temperature control. Another of the attributes of a
good tun is the ability
to maintain a steady temperature, and the un-insulated bucket system
just falls short.
The most versatile tun that I've found is made from a large
picnic cooler, with straining
filters placed in the bottom to let the liquified sugars pass through
while restraining the
spent grains. This set up combines the best attributes of the mash
and lauter tuns into a
single device, saving money, process steps, and a mess on the kitchen
floor. (Another
reason I do my mashing in the garage...) My tun system incorporates
a series of PVC pipe
sections into which slits have been sawn. These sections are joined
with PVC elbow, Tee
and X sections to form a sieve type filter. The original design had
a lot of joining
sections, with poles of PVC pipe jutting into the bottom of the grain
bed. This unwieldy
structure was connected to the cooler drain spout, which allows the
liquid to be drained
out. A small rubber stopper fits over the spout, and a valve in the
other end of the
stopper allows the control of liquid flow from the tun.
My latest design of the sieve is a very simple one. Instead of a trident
design of pipes
all along the bottom of the tun, I now use two four inch sections
of slotted pipe, joined at
the center with a PVC Tee section. End caps keep the grain out of
the ends of the plastic
pipes, and the outlet from the Tee section is connected to the cooler's
outlet. Not only is
this design simpler, but it is also harder to dislodge from the outlet.
The smaller number
of slits gives a longer sparge time, which increases the sugar extraction
rate.
If one of your goals is to maximize the amount of sugar that you can
create from your
grains (the ones that you've spent good money for!), then you need
to know about
sparging. In this example, sparging is the running of hot water through
the hot grains to
dissolve the last bits of sugar from the mash. This is best done gently
and slowly. If the
water is flushing through the grain, pathways of water are formed,
channeling the water
around, and not through the grains. Hot water is used, but the temperature
of the grains
should never exceed 170 degrees Fahrenheit, as this would leech out
harsh bitter oils
from the grain husks. And the quantity of water must be such that
after a sixty minute
boil, the amount of wort called for in your recipe is the amount you
wind up with. If you
do make an error, it's probably better to wind up with to little liquor
after the boil,
because it's relatively easy to add sterile water to the fermenter,
while any excess liquor
is subject to contamination as it is stored. The important points
to remember are 1)
gentile sparging, 2) temperature control, and 3) try to get the quantities
right!
When creating such a tun and filter system, there are some points
that you should
keep in mind. The size of the tun determines the amount of grain you
can mash, and if
your tun is too small, you will be restricted to making light and
wimpy beers, because you
simply have no room to mash larger amounts of grain. When buying a
cooler to make
into a tun, get one with a drain system already in place. Drilling
your own hole is a
gateway to frustration. Finally, use high temperature PVC pipe for
your filtering system.
The maximum temperature required in a tun is about 170 degrees Fahrenheit,
a
temperature sufficient to melt many thinner grades of pipe. The pipes
won't become
liquid at that temperature, but they will warp, allowing grain to
enter the sieve, plugging
up your system. You haven't lived until you have to spoon 25 or more
pounds of grain
into a straining bag because your filtering system has failed.
Next time: The Mash
Rich Webb
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Date: Thu, 4 Aug 94 12:56:07 EDT
From: Mark A Fryling <mfryling at magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
Subject: Beer survival in Atlanta
Hullo,
I will be starting a new job next month in Covington, GA (about 30 miles
east of Atlanta) and I need some help from local beer lovers. Can those of you
in the know give me info on local:
A) Brewpubs in the Atlanta area
B) Shops at which to buy homebrew supplies - I am partial mashing right
now, but I am rapidly moving towards all grain (especially since I
will now be able to afford an 8 gal. Vollrath, a wort chiller and a
King Cooker!)
C) Good commercial beer sources (ie. large selection of imports and
quality domestics).
Thanks for your assistance.
At the risk of starting another mill argument (oh no!), I would just like to
say that I recently acquired a Glatt Mill and like it very much. I have also
used the Phil Mill and the Malt Mill (TM) and I think the Glatt crush is as
good as the MM and superior to the PM. As I see it the big advantage of the
Glatt is the complete adjustability of the rollers. The advantage of the MM is
the convenience of sitting on top of a 5 gal bucket (less mess). Both seem to
do a great job crushing and I think both are good purchases. BTW, I payed $109
plus $8 shipping from CA for my Glatt, and I had to mount it to a table top
before use.
No affiliation, just thought I'd give my impressions.
Have fun, and brew well my little droogies.
Mark Fryling
mfryling at magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1494, 08/06/94