HOMEBREW Digest #1575 Thu 10 November 1994

Digest #1574 Digest #1576

		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor

  Beer tasting (Aidan "Krazy Krausen Kropping Kiwi" Heerdegen)
  Split batch yeast trials (Tom Clifton)
  Slow start (Guy Mason)
  Re: My Virgin MASH! (Jim Ancona)
  Propane Indoors (A.J. deLange)
  Corny kegs & blackstrap molassus ("Klaus Vogel")
  Questions -Keg vs bottle (Steven Lichtenberg)
  Patient critical; need second opinion. (Curt Erickson)
  Master Judge is Stumped! (Chuck Cox)
  Dallas visit/ iodophore plug (CGEDEN)
  stalled or finished? (CGEDEN)
  Hallertauer Mittelfrueh Hops??? (Gene Kraus)
  beerstone, swim suits, yeast, plastic, huge stout (uswlsrap)
  Sweet stout, acronyms(AA%), chlorine, water analysis, IDs (Nancy.Renner)
  Yeast Culturing (Randy M. Davis)
  A Bacterial Infection? ("JESUS H. CHRIST")
  Seattle/PNW Beers:  Summary ("Timothy P. Laatsch)
  Roller Mill,PH Meters, Weinstephan Yeast (Chris Barnhart)
  primary vs secondary (Greg Niznik)
  On/Off-line HBD Discussion (npyle)
  Minor correction (Fred Waltman)
  yeast culturing (Eamonn McKernan)
  Bass Ale (Cecila Strickland )
  The Hop Source (Glenn Tinseth)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 9 Nov 94 15:20:51 EDT From: Aidan "Krazy Krausen Kropping Kiwi" Heerdegen <aidan at rschp2.anu.edu.au> Subject: Beer tasting Full-Name: Aidan "Krazy Krausen Kropping Kiwi" Heerdegen "Jerry Cunningham (ESMPD)" <gcunning at Census.GOV> wrote: > I am trying to get better at recognizing and describing flavors in > beer. Brian Pickerill <00bkpickeril at leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu> wrote: > I have to admit that as a brewer of only just over 1 year, I still have > a lot of trouble understanding what tastes like, for example, diacetyl. Never fear gents, there is something advertised on the rec.crafts.brewing newsgroup which may be just what you are looking for (this is an old one but I see them posted quite regularly): Newsgroups: rec.food.drink.beer,alt.beer,rec.crafts.brewing Subject: IRC Beer Tasting #11 Date: 28 Oct 1994 04:37:51 GMT The eleventh IRC beer tasting will take place on Tuesday, November 1, at 10pm EST. We will meet on #tasting of IRC. The beers for this week's tasting were selected by those in attendance at the previous tasting. The common beer will be Celis White. The second beer will be any Belgian Wit (white) style beer. I hope to see lots of people. Catch y'all on the rebound, --Alex (harpua at new-orleans.NeoSoft.com) The best source of more detailed information on IRC is the IRC FAQ, available at `http://www.undernet.org/~agifford/undernet/underfaq'. Sorry of that was a bit long .. in the spirit of not being arcronymist (discriminatory toward the acronym impaired), IRC stands for Internet Relay Chat .. a sort of group interactive typing conference thingy. Seeing as I can't get any of the beers mentioned here (and I have been unable to set up an IRC client .. &*^% at *! thing!) I have not tried joining in .. so I don't know how good they are. Hope that didn't take up too much space that could have been devoted to a discussion of copyright law .. Cheers Aidan - -- Aidan Heerdegen e-mail: aidan at rschp2.anu.edu.au Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 8 Nov 94 15:59 EST From: Tom Clifton <0002419419 at mcimail.com> Subject: Split batch yeast trials As an educational process I am wanting to prepare a wort and split it into six one gallon fermenters to develop a familiarity with different yeasts. To facilitate this I anticipate a fairly neutral 1.040 wort and fermentation of all beers at a fixed temperature. The game plan is: For 5 gallons 5.5 LBS Alexanders pale liquid extract 0.75 OZ Willamette 4.5%AA bittering hops - boil 60 minutes 1007 Wyeast German Ale 1028 Wyeast London Ale 1056 Wyeast American Ale 1084 Wyeast Irish Ale ???? Edme Dry Ale Yeast I am assuming that I will have 12.5 IBU's with a 25% utilization as I can only boil 2 gallons of wort in a 12 quart kettle. I anticipate being able to place five 1 gallon jugs in my brew fridge and to hold the temperature at 60 to 65 degrees. Any advice on temperature? Any suggestions on the hops (or does it matter?). Bottling and priming can be accomplished by boiling 500ml of water with 3/4 cup of corn sugar and placing 10ml in each bottle before filling. This should be a means of consistently carbonating as might be expected for a normal 5 gallon batch that would fill perhaps 50 bottles of beer. I would love some Email from anybody that has done this or that has some expertiese along these lines. Tom Clifton St. Louis, MO. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 94 8:34:22 EST From: Guy Mason <guy at polo.matrixnet.com> Subject: Slow start Greetings Fellow Brewers, 1. I recently started a Cranberry\Wheat beer using Wyeast Bavarian Wheat liquid yeast (sorry no number). The foil package took 3 days to swell, starter was slow, and fermentation didn't start for 2.5 days. Is this normal for this yeast? 2. What does the CW (Collective Wisdom for you acronym fans) recommend for a 2-3 cup starter? How much malt? How much hops? How long to let it ferment? TIA /=====================================================\ | Guy Mason \\|// o(57 ) | | Matrix Software |O O|oo (Channels ) | | guy at matrixnet.com | U | (and Nothin) | | \ - / (On ) | \=====================================================/ Return to table of contents
Date: 9 Nov 94 8:51:10 EDT From: Jim Ancona <Jim_Ancona.DBS at dbsnotes.dbsoftware.com> Subject: Re: My Virgin MASH! In HBD #1574, Timothy P. Laatsch wrote a very informative post about his first partial mash. A few comments: >MASHING SCHEDULE: I have been using the lager variation of the George Fix mash schedule (50-60-70 deg C), and like it a lot. You may want to reread his post titled Yield in HBD 1506, where he describes his mash schedule and says: Note - I now feel (with Narziss) that the time spent in the range 45-55C should be keep below 15 mins. if highly modified malt is used. I don't think the 15 minute protein rest at 50C (122F) is necessary with (highly modified) Pale Ale malt. Not doing it would simplify the mash process a bit. >SPARGING: >BIG, BIG Problem-----I may have caused/done hot-side aeration by allowing too >much splashing of the sparge outflow. Is that the proper term? What >ill-effects could the finished product have? Papazian simply mentions >"oxidized" flavors, but I seem to remember something on the HBD about a "wet >cardboard" taste. God be with my brew. I'll just be sick if all this work >was for nothing. I plan to make some minor equipment modifications to avoid >this problem with my next batch. Relax, don't worry... I believe 'wet cardboard' is the classic oxidation taste, but I thinks it usually tends to show up after several months in the bottle, not immediately. I also think I remember reading the HSA is more of a problem with bitter (hopped) wort (after the boil), rather than with sweet wort. Anyone else remember this? >MASH YIELD: I think the predicted extract numbers you used to calculate your efficiency are too low. I don't have a book here, but I think the numbers are more like 33-35 pts for Pale Ale and 25-30 for Crystal malts. Even so, your efficiency is up around 90%. Very good! Now all you need is a larger boiling pot to do a full mash. Good luck! Jim Ancona janco at dbsoftware.com jpa at iii.net Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 94 09:55:14 est From: A.J._deLange at csgi.com (A.J. deLange) Subject: Propane Indoors "CANNON_TOM" <CANNON_TOM at hq.navsea.navy.mil> posted last week a summary of 28 responses to a question on the advisability of using propane burners indoors. While I agree in principal that this may be inadvisable I'd like to comment on some the points the respondants raised. My comments are not to be interpreted as an endorsement of the use of propane in the house: >1.) Propane sucks in large amounts of oxygen, on the order > of depleting an enclosed house of its total supply within an > hour. Massive amounts of ventilation required (more than a > few open windows) in order to resupply oxygen. I estimate that a 35,000 BTU/hr propane burner at full bore consumes 330 cubic feet of air in an hour (calculation at end of post). My kitchen is 19 x 18 x 7.5. (all feet) for a volume of 2565 cubic feet. Thus, to stay ahead of the burner, about 13% of the air in the kitchen needs to be replenished each hour. This demand is easily met by an open window. >2.) Carbon Monoxide build-up after combustion is also life > threatening requiring serious ventilation (again, more than > a few open windows). Combustion takes place in the open air and the burners are equipped with car- burettors that provide, or can be adjusted to provide a correct mixture. Carbon monoxide production from a *properly adjusted* burner is at safe levels (but note that propane refrigerators whose burners accumulate rust flakes have been responsible for CO deaths in enclosed cabins/houses). The 35,000 btu/hr burner also produces about 6 pounds of CO2 in an hour. That is probably more of a threat than the CO. >4.) Occasionally, you have propane leaks. Being a truly > orderless and colorless gas, this can lead to situtations > resulting in death. The propane one buys is definitely not odorless. I think this is because the suppliers dose it with mercaptans (as the natural gas suppliers do) rather than the smell of the propane itself. >5.) Propane is not the cleanest burning gas in the world > and could result in large soot stains on ceilings. Propane burns very cleanly if the burner is properly adjusted. If it isn't, the soot goes onto the bottom of the pot. >6.) Do you really want to risk a 15.5 gallon boilover > inside a house? Boil-overs are sad events inside or out. The wrath of the brewster is secondary to the tragedy of lost beer. The major danger with propane indoors was not mentioned. This is its density relative to air which causes it to accumulate in low areas. E.g. if an un- attended bottle sprung a leak, the gas might find its way to the basement. A spark from a furnace, water heater etc could then ignite it. The big caveat with propane is DON'T STORE IT INDOORS. Air Requirement Calculation : 35,000 BTU/hr is about 37,000 kJ/hr and the heat of combustion of propane is 2219 kJ/mol so that one of these burners goes through 37,000/2219 = 16.7 moles of propane per hour (at 44 grams per mole this is 734 grams or 1.6 pounds). Each mole of propane requires 5 moles of oxygen: 5*16.7 = 83.4 mol. One mole of oxygen occupies about 22.4 litres (at normal pressure and 15C) thus 22.4*83.4 = 1868 litres of oxygen. As air is only 20% oxygen, five times this volume or 9340 litres of air are consumed per hour. There are 1000 litres in a cubic meter so the air volume is 9.34 cubic meter/hr which is 330 cubic feet.The combustion of 1 mole of propane also produces 3 moles of CO2 and so 16.7*3 = 50.1 moles are produced per hour at 35,000 BTU/hr. The molecular weight of CO2 is 56 so this means 56*50.1 = 2805 grams or 6.2 pounds per hour are given off. The combustion also produces 66.8 moles of water (i.e.about 2.6 pints). Lisoi! A.J. A.J._deLange at csgi.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 1994 09:18:14 EDT From: "Klaus Vogel" <VOGEL at net2.eos.uoguelph.ca> Subject: Corny kegs & blackstrap molassus A while back I posted a request for a cheap source of corny kegs and I would like to summarize the replies.Sorry bout the delay,but it gets busy here. Scott replied that there seems to be a glut of cory kegs in the USA.He calls scrapyards and has aquired several for $5 !!!He suggested I ask for soda kegs,not to many laymen know the name corny kegs. Bob replied that he has succsess asking in restarants and contacting beveage distributers. I did not get any replies from Canada,apparently there is no glut in this country. Blackstrap molassus.Terry replied he got a recipe for Old Peculiar from Dave Lines book,Brewing beers you like to buy that has Blackstrap molasus as one ingrediant.He says he was very pleases with the results.Joe uses it at the rate of 8 oz. per batch ,just enough to so the sampler knows there is something in there ,but can't recognize it.I will try a batch with blackstap molassus as soon as I can locate some.The closest i got was cooking molassus.Does anybody know if cooking molassus is a suitable ingediant for beer or/and if they know of a supplier for blacksrap ??? Klaus Vogel Laboratory Manager University of Guelph School of Engineering Guelph,Ontario Canada Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 1994 09:08:59 -0500 (EST) From: Steven Lichtenberg <steve at Pentagon-EMH6.army.mil> Subject: Questions -Keg vs bottle Recently I came across some strange phenomena and wanted to ask the collective wisdom of the group what is going on. In trying to gain more control over color in my brews, I brewed a pale ale. I was able to hit the color I was after exactly (for the first time, as I always seem ot overshoot color). THe beer turned out pretty good. I did several different things to this beer at bottle time just to play with it. First I kegged 5 gallons as I usually do with my beere (no washing silly little bottles for me!)). This beer came out a little estery on first tasting but this aged out to a ne=ice clean taseing ale. At the same time I took the rest of the beer from the fermenter (approx 3.5 gallons) and bottled it. Into half of the bottles I placed halepeno peppers, 1 per bottle, straight from my garden. The pepper beer turned out GREAT! much better than I thought it would. It tasted like a mexican restaurant smells, full of peppers and beer.. I was very pleased with this. The rest of the bottles were filled primed with gyle and capped. After approx 2 months in the bottle, there is a slight phenolic taste to the beer in the bottles. THis is where I am confused. All bottles and the keg were sanitised using the same solution of iodophor, they were all bottled at the same time and bottled form the same batch. No other variables changed at bottling time. The only difference was that the keg was immediately placed in the refrigeratot and forced carbonated. All of the bottles were placed in empty cases and left at room temperature. When I finally killed the keg, I started chilling the bottles and got the phenols. This has not happened with the chili beer (at least I can't taste it) so storage conditions should not be a factor. My question is where could the phenols have come from? I usually do not rinse the iodophor from my kegs, bottles and simply let them air dry (too manby years woking in restaurants with the health department looking over your shoulder). TIA for any help in resolving this issue. Hoppy brewing-- - --S ^ **** ---- "There's always time for a Homebrew!" ---- **** C|~~| -------------- Steven Lichtenberg ------------- C|~~| `--' -------- steve at pentagon-emh6.army.mil ------- `--' ------------------------------------------- ENJOY LIFE--THIS IS NOT A REHEARSAL Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 94 9:52:57 EST From: Curt Erickson <erickson at koicpk08.delcoelect.com> Subject: Patient critical; need second opinion. THE PATIENT: 5 gallons of a Liberty Ale knock off of Stephen Tinsley's recipe. THE SYMPTOMS: The taste test, when racked from primary to secondary, revealed beer which was; booooooring, tasteless, and without any redeeming hop value. (not that I won't drink it mind you). MEDICAL HISTORY: 8 lbs Pale Passion extract 1/2 lb 40L Crystal Malt 1/2 lb Munich Malt 1/2 lb Cara Pils Malt 1.5 oz. Mount Hood 60 minutes 1.0 oz. Mount Hood 30 minutes .5 oz. Mount Hood 10 minutes .5 oz. Mount Hood 2 minutes EDME dry yeast I tried a partial mash rather than my usual steep. 150 degrees 30 minutes 158 degrees 15 minutes raise to 168 and sparge with a quart of 170 degree water. Brewed Saturday specific gravity 1.052 Racked from primary to secondary Tuesday specific gravity 1.020 UNCHARTED TERRITORY: The mash temperatures were measured via meat thermometer, accuracy unknown. The hops was a gift. It came in the form of a "loose brick" (4inx6inx1in), Alpha acid % unknown. DIAGNOSIS: As I write this, the error of my ways becomes all to evident. Rather than adding hops at the appropriate time and leaving the previous hops in the boil, I added at the right time but I removed the previous hops bag upon the new arrival. HOPUS INSUFFICIENTUS. TREATMENT POSSIBILITIES: 1. Dry hop the secondary, that way it will at least smell like beer. 2. Boil 2 oz of hops in a quart of water for an hour, add to secondary. 3. All the above. SECOND OPINIONS: ???????????????????????? Thanks Curt erickson at koicpk01.delcoelect.com I'm not a beer doctor but I play one at home. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 94 9:53:10 EST From: chuck at synchro.com (Chuck Cox) Subject: Master Judge is Stumped! Sometimes it seems everthing goes wrong... I recently brewed a disappointing batch of Oktoberfest. The problem is that so many different things went wrong at once. I have brewed this award-winning beer several times with no problems, but this time something went very wrong. Based on standard diagnostics, there must be at least half a dozen different things that went wrong. However, I have a hard time believing that so many things could go wrong at once. I suspect that there is a single cause to the problems, but I can't determine what it is, so I figured I would see if anyone else had any ideas. The beer was a 1/2 bbl of all-grain Oktoberfest, made with Belgian and Canadian malts and continental hops. There was nothing unusual about the ingredients or processes involved. The beer exhibits the following flaws, which were not present in previous batches: - Reduced Maltiness - Reduced Complexity - Increased DMS - Increased Oxidation - Increased Haziness In addition, I have experienced some unpleasant side-effects that appear to be a result of drinking this beer: - Upset Stomach - Increased Flatulence - Reduced Sex Drive Please let me know if you have any suggestions for a single error that could account for all these faults. - -- Chuck Cox <chuck at synchro.com> SynchroSystems / Riverside Garage & Brewery - Cambridge, Mass. A disarmed citizen is an oppressed citizen. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 09 Nov 94 10:27:00 EST From: CGEDEN at NERVM.NERDC.UFL.EDU Subject: Dallas visit/ iodophore plug I'll be visiting Dallas next month for a few days and would greatly appreciate any info on brewpubs, micro's, and interesting Texan beers. Thanks! - Chris Geden (cgeden at nervm.nerdc.ufl.edu) PS - It seems to me that we need an electronic brewpub directory that folks could access easily before a trip. Maybe a faq containijng a guide to to beer in the 50 most populous American cities. Does such a thing exist? PPS - I tried an iodophore the other night to sanitize about 50 bottles. I'll never use bleach again! No smell, no stains, no rinsing, almost no soaking. Great stuff. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 09 Nov 94 10:29:09 EST From: CGEDEN at NERVM.NERDC.UFL.EDU Subject: stalled or finished? After doing all singe-stage fermentations for the past year I decided to go two-stage with a 1.062 OG IPA. After 6 days of "open" fermentation I racked to a glass carboy dry-hopped with 1 oz. of East Kent Goldings hop pellets. As expected, most of the CO2 in solution was lost during racking, but it never really came back. That is, ever since about three days after racking there has been some foam on the beer surface but no bubbling through the airlock. Positive pressure, but no bubbles. It has now been almost two weeks in this stationary phase and the only change that I've seen is that most of the hops have settled (what a pain in the neck waiting for those hop pellet particles to settle!). SG is static at 1.024. It doesn't taste "sweet" but hop bitterness in the recipe was high so I don't know if I can trust my palate. Also, the beer doesn't look very clear to me, but most of what is suspended in solution *looks* like little teeny flecks of hop pellets (boy am I sick of those dry hopped pellets!). If its done then why is the final gravity so high (yeast=M&F dry)? Why is there still foam on the surface but no 1)change in SG and 2) bubbles in airlock? If I bottle it now will I have exploding bottles in two weeks? Am I "worrying" about nothing at all and should just go ahead and bottle it, high fg, foam and all? Or should I relax and wait all the filthy pellet particles settle and the beer is clear and still? Sorry to use up bandwidth over such a simple question but after year of brewing I am still perplexed over *when* fermentation is sufficiently complete to go ahead and bottle. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 94 10:53:48 EST From: gkraus at uv1.im.med.umich.edu (Gene Kraus) Subject: Hallertauer Mittelfrueh Hops??? I am planning on brewing a True German Lager for the holidays and wanted to use Hallertauer Mittelfrueh hops. I called HopTech in California and was told that these hops no longer exist. They said that all the brewers that were using Mittelfrueh hops are now using Hallertauer "Traditionals". Does anyone know if this is true and/or has anyone used these new traditionals? Gene Kraus gkraus at med.umich.edu Never let your morals get in the way of doing what you know is right! Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 09 Nov 94 10:33:26 EST From: uswlsrap at ibmmail.com Subject: beerstone, swim suits, yeast, plastic, huge stout - -------------------- Mail Item Text Follows ------------------ To: I1010141--IBMMAIL From: Bob Paolino Research Analyst Subject: beerstone, swim suits, yeast, plastic, huge stout BEERSTONE: I'm not sure where I picked this one up, but I've had some success with boiling water and dishwasher (that's -er, not -ing) detergent in my five gallon S/S pot. SWIM SUITS: Jeff Stampes' comment suggests that _all_ public beaches require swim suits. Go read rec.nude (if you can stand the endlessly repeated topics from uninformed virtual gawkers). Beer and naturism do go together, but keep itto beer here. :-) YEAST: $5-$10 for liquid yeast??? Where are you buying this stuff??? I pay about $3-$4 for Wyeast and YeastLab. But, yes, you can get more than one use, particularly if you brew every week, as you stated. A couple options. Save the slurry from your primary (better than using the secondary) in a sanitised jar--cover it with foil or plastic wrap rather than a lid (you don't want a yeast and glass bomb in the fridge). You can pitch that as is (but try to leave most of the trub behind), but I prefer to put it in a starter--even if only a few hours ahead if you forget to plan ahead. Without the knowledge or microscope to check things out (I like to keep things simple, too), I wouldn't _re_use more than twice. If you brew frequently enough (and want to use that same strain of yeast in your batches over a short period of time), divide the slurry into more than one jar--that way you're getting second-generation for each batch. Obviously, the longer it's been stored, the more important it is to get a good starter going before you brew with it. The other thing that I've read (but haven't done) refers to "parallel yeast propagation." Before you even brew with it, make a starter and let it ferment out completely. Bottle and refrigerate a half dozen bottles of this weak beer and use the dregs from each as an "original" culture--add to starter, et cetera.... The person who wrote this said something about adding it to a faq, so you might want to check for details. Perhaps someone who's done this can comment about results. PLASTIC BOTTLES: I wouldn't do it just for aesthetic considerations, but I've seen commercial brews packaged in 1l and 2l bottles. When I was last in BC I noticed a few. I bought a 1l PET bottle of Nelson Brewing Traditional Ale. It was quite good (yes, I shared it at a club meeting--I didn't drink it all myself :-) ). Note that it was not a _clear_ PET bottle. I don't know how well it would hold up over time. I would be less concerned about it holding pressure (it works for soda, doesn't it?) than I would be about possible off flavours from long contact with plastic. HUGE STOUT: Brian Ellsworth describes his huge stout (13.6 pounds of extract ina 5 gallon batch) and wonders why it's so damn sweet. Yes, it's definitely underhopped--3 ounces of S.Goldings isn't going to balance all that malt. Now about that yeast--you said you used a dry ale yeast and a champagne yeast. Did you pitch both at the same time, or did you add the champagne yeast later (and when?) With all that malt, you need an alcohol tolerant yeast. If added at the same time, the champagne yeast may not have done any good; perhaps someone moreknowledgable can comment on how the two strains would "compete" with each other. I'd use some champagne yeast now to try to finish the fermentation. And, BTW, get a hydrometer. It's a very simple addition to your equipment and procedure and, I would say, essential--as your present batch demonstrates. No need to apologise for using extracts, but you really do "need" a hydrometer. If you'd used one, you'd know how huge your brew really is and would be able tosee that your yeasties were quitting under all that alcohol. Good luck with it. Bob Paolino Disoriented in Badgerspace Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 94 11:37:22 EST From: Nancy.Renner at um.cc.umich.edu Subject: Sweet stout, acronyms(AA%), chlorine, water analysis, IDs (From *Jeff* Renner) Brian Ellsworth wonders why his stout has finished so sweet (but he doesn't use a hydrometer). Brian, it's supposed to be sweet. Why? Because, with 13.6 lb. malt extract and 2 lbs of grain, you've made an IMPERIAL STOUT with a gravity of at least 1100! It will probably continue to ferment slowly, but I'd guess the terminal gravity will be at least 1030, which is sweet, especially since it is rather underhopped for an imperial (you really won't get very good hop utilization with that high a gravity wort, even if you boiled full volume). You might try making a hop tea with another oz. of Chinook and adding it to bring up the bitterness, although you said you liked the bitterness level. *** Gary Bell has published a list of acronyms for beginners. Thanks for the effort, Gary, and I'm sorry you got flamed. I think that jargon, an any sociologist will tell you, is too often used by the "in group" to exclude outsiders from understanding. I agree that we need to be as inclusive as possible. I try to define acronyms and jargon (ie, Zapap, a lauter tun made from a bucket within a bucket with a gazillion holes in the bottom of the inner bucket for a false bottom, which I submit as an addition to your list) the first time I use them in a post. I think there is room in the digest for occasionally defining less common acronyms, but I agree with Jeff Frane that many common ones are useful shortcuts. A jargon FAQ is a great idea. Now for a gentle correction: >AA% Percent Isomerized Alpha Acid Not quite. The % alpha acid in hops is not isomerized. That happens in the boiling. *** Don Rudolph states that preboiling brewing water will eliminate chlorine (wrt a discussion of chlorophenols). Not if the chlorine is added as mono-chloroamine, as is now being required by federal standards. This is heat stable. You need a charcoal filter. (This info from the water chemist at the Ann Arbor Water Dept.). My experience with chlorophenol (once, that's all it takes to change procedure) is that it doesn't go away. It's plenty stable. And it is a carcinogen, although I doubt that a few ppb or even ppm in one 5 gallon batch will be a problem. I just can't stand the taste. *** Dana Brigham has a water analysis in mg/l, and wonders how to convert that to ppm. They are equivalent, Dana. In answer to using that water for brewing, it's quite soft. You'd need Ca for mashing, and sulfates for pale ale bitterness. It would work for pilsners as is. But why do you mistrust your municipal water, especially if you filter it for drinking? Get a free analysis from the water department, filter it through a charcoal filter to get rid of organics and chlorine, and adjust it as necessary for minerals. The consensus here on plastic carboys is that they are hard to sanitize because the scratch easily, but are lightweight and unbreakable, so some folks use them for primary fermentors. However, the are O2 permeable, so the are not suitable for long storage, such as secondaries. *** A repeat request. I find it useful and enlightening to have a name, not an anonymous ID, and a location for posters. How about it? Location especially helps when you have a post that may be affected by geography. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 94 10:07:30 MST From: Randy M. Davis <rmdavis at mocan.mobil.com> Subject: Yeast Culturing Robert W. Mech asked several questions concerning yeast culturing and the level of difficulty it involves. I too was investigating this topic some time ago and had come to the conclusion that my rather risky method of sharing sedimented yeast from primary fermentations with a fellow brewer was the best I could do without investing too much time and money. Then I read the yeast FAQ and I saw the solution to my problem. Robert, I know you asked me not to do this but... in the yeast FAQ; Section III Part 4 Parallel Yeast Culturing details a painless, extremely inexpensive and IMHO relatively safe method of doing just what you seem to want to do. You also said "I want answers from people who do this on a regular basis, cheaply and efficiently, not chemists." O.K. I have been doing this on a regular basis, cheaply and efficiently (sort of) and I am definitely not a chemist. If you make beer and bottle it and your techniques are good enough that the beer is drinkable, then you can use this technique for yeast culturing. There is no reason that you can't get a dozen starters from a single package of liquid yeast for the cost of the yeast, a little malt extract and some bottle caps. The only drawback I have discovered so far is that I have much more yeast around than I will ever be able to use which is not very efficient. I'm sure that this method satisfies all of the concerns you expressed in your questions and will meet your needs. I notice that there are a number of pages prior to Part 4 in the FAQ that deal with the more complex approaches to yeast culturing and washing so I suspect that may be why you missed the single page description which was written for cheap buggers like us. :) - --- +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Randy M. Davis rmdavis at mocan.mobil.com Calgary Canada (403)260-4184 | +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+ Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 09 Nov 1994 08:57:00 -0500 (EST) From: "JESUS H. CHRIST" <S72UWLK at TOE.TOWSON.EDU> Subject: A Bacterial Infection? I've only been brewing for about a year now (I have yet to make the jump to all grain brewing). I have recently brewed a batch of IPA (it was a "True Brew" kit which I modified). I have followed cleanliness guidelines carefully to avoid any risk of infection from wild yeast, bacteria, and even cooties <g>. Nonetheless, this batch seems to taste a bit, well, off. It doesn't show any of the hallmarks of an infected batch and it doesn't taste like the batch has gone bad, per se. It tastes a little plastic-like (maybe that's a bad description as the taste is ever so slight), maybe a little bit yeasty (also an ever so slight taste), and even a little bit "not so clean". I realize that these descriptions are somewhat vague, but the taste is vague as well (although it's not awful-I've brewed a batch of awful, infected beer and this tastes nothing like that catastrophe!). I did alter the recipe as far as the hop content is concerned. I decided to experiment (oh-boy) and blended Cascade, Fuggles, Chinook, and Pearle varieties. I used the Chinook and Pearle for bittering (although I saved a small portion for finishing) and the Cascade and the Fuggles for finishing (although I used a small amount of these for bittering also). Otherwise I have followed the kit instructions precisely. Does anyone have any diagnostic advice? I honestly don't think that I have an infected batch on my hands, but again, I've only been brewing for about a year. Could this be a lethal combination of hops (I expected bitterness, but not these other "off" flavors)? Could this be a "mild" form of infection (remember, there's no "ring around the collar", gushing, or any other telltale signs of infection)? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 1994 11:29:07 -0600 (CST) From: kschlage at casbah.acns.nwu.edu Subject: Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 09 Nov 1994 12:39:14 -0400 (EDT) From: "Timothy P. Laatsch <LAATSCH at kbs.msu.edu>" <LAATSCH at kbs.msu.edu> Subject: Seattle/PNW Beers: Summary Hey brewers, As requested by Bob Badgerspace, here is the summary of responses I received in my quest for Seattle and other Pacific NW bottle-conditioned beers. Sources can be provided by private request. Deschutes Brewing: Black Butte Porter Cascade Bitter Mirror Pond Ale Obsidian Stout Big Time Ale House: good brewpub w/ some 22 oz. bottles also Bhagwan's Best IPA (theirs?) Liberty Brewing: no specific varieties mentioned Others to note: Pyramid Hefeweizen Thomas Kemper Heffe-weizen (both MAY NOT be fermentation yeast) I presume that this is by no means a comprehensive listing. Anyone like to embellish?? - ---------------------------------- On another note, it seems that my "Virgin Mash" calculations were a bit conservative for predicting OG---i.e. it should have been higher due to larger contributions from the extract and the pale. IOW, my efficiency was not 100%, but more like 85-90%. My numbers were based on info in the Brewer's Resource catalog---numbers which have been disputed in several replies. Some respondents have sent me alternate numbers, but have not stated a source---so can anyone direct me to a source for good contribution numbers of various constituents? To the potential masher: GO FOR IT! Although, it was quite chaotic, it's not nearly as daunting as it sounds in print. Later, Bones ==================================================================== laatsch at kbs.msu.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 94 12:50:54 EST From: Chris Barnhart <clbarnha at letterkenn-emh1.army.mil> Subject: Roller Mill,PH Meters, Weinstephan Yeast Hi all, First, for those interested, the roller mill project is almost complete. I'm still waiting for the rollers from the machine shop. Once I drop the rollers in and test it I'll post the details. Second, Anyone have experience with digital PH meters like the Checker (TM) or the like? Sources? Third, Just brewed a traditional wheat beer with NorthWestern wheat extract and Wyeast Weinstephan yeast. Boiled for 75 minutes. Splashed the cool wort around a bit for aeration. Pitched a 500 ml starter begun 24 hours before from the swelled yeast pack. Fermentation took off within 18 hours. Got worried on day 2 when I noticed a horrible smell emanating from the fermentation lock. Smelled not quite vegetal, kind of uric acid like (didn't wet my drawers, have a new baby, diapers and all that), not buttery. The smell seemed to go away around day 8, bottled on day 9. The nasty odor seems to have scrubbed out. Beer tasted fine, semi-clove taste, major banana esters. Any others with similar experience? Typical of Wyeast Weinstephan? What was that smell and the likely cause? Private E-mail fine. Barny clbarnha at letterkenn-emh1.army.mil Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 94 10:06:07 PST From: CGV1%PSE%SG at bangate.pge.com Subject: CD ROM HBD? So I guess the irony will be when I go to buy My CD ROM version of the HBD and it all amateur copyright law discussions...... Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 94 13:55:43 EST From: Greg Niznik <GENIZN01 at ULKYVM.LOUISVILLE.EDU> Subject: primary vs secondary Graduate Student Phone: 852-5756 Thanks to all who replied to my question regarding primary vs secondary fermentation. Most of the replies gave similar information: Using a secondary fermentation is better because: 1) It get the beer off of the trub, dead yeast ect that will eventually produce an off flavor in the beer 2) It helps clear the beer before bottling (sort of like racking wine) 3) It allows one to bottle at one's convenience Thanks again Greg Niznik Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 94 12:21:53 MST From: npyle at hp7013.ecae.StorTek.COM Subject: On/Off-line HBD Discussion Dave Smucker asks that we carry on more conversations in the HBD, rather than via email and I tend to agree with him. Here's the trend I would like to see, although I'm quite sure some others will disagree: HBD Discussions: Brew Sessions, i.e. techniques Ingredients discussions, including sanitizers, etc. Equipment discussions (my personal favorite) Troubleshooting AoB/AHA discussions Club discussions that have general appeal (how to do Dr. Beer sessions, etc.) Brewing article discussions, i.e. Zymurgy/BT Mail order supplies, because they have a widespread audience National Competitions, details left to email Federal, State and local laws (including copyright, shipping, etc.) related to brewing; even the local stuff may have commonality with other places Safety Issues, definitely Commercial beers, especially if there is something to be learned from them by the homebrewer Brewery tours/reviews Beer/Brewing Festival Reviews Things to take to email: Local homebrew supply stores Local brewery information requests (I have a not-too-out-of-date summary of CO breweries for anyone interested, BTW) Local club information Local contests Major Flameage If you detect a trend here, you are not alone. I feel that local information should remain local, and not hashed out over the net. I'm *not* saying that I don't ever want to see anything vaguely resembling a localized issue discussed here. I *do* think that a local discussion can be started on the HBD and then taken off-line (note the words "take to email"). All interests are served with this method, and most people will be happy with it. Please don't take this as anything but what it is intended to be: my personal preferences. If I don't state what I like, I'm sure nobody else will do it for me. And yes, I feel discussing *this* issue on the HBD to be a very fair use of the medium. Cheers, Norm Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 1994 11:49:33 -0800 (PST) From: Fred Waltman <waltman at netcom.com> Subject: Minor correction The other day the Coyote had mentioned Oliver D. Ennis in a post about tap supplies. They are no longer at the address mentioned (in Culver City) but have a new address and local phone #: Oliver D. Ennis 9001 Oso Ave, Unit B Chatsworth, CA (818) 701-9765 Of course, if you have the urge to visit Culuver City, we are just down the street from Ennis' old location <g> Fred Waltman Culver City Home Brewing Supply Co. waltman at netcom.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 94 15:20:08 EST From: Eamonn McKernan <eamonn at rainbow.physics.utoronto.ca> Subject: yeast culturing Robert asked about yeast culturing. I just take a bottle of homebrew which was made with the yeast I want, drink the beer, and pitch the dregs (and about 2 oz of beer for good measure) into some wort. just like starting a store bought liquid yeast. As long as the beer tastes good, I figure the yeast is O.K. to culture again. Often people reccomend that one only re-pitch a few times before replenishing your yeast source. Quick. Simple. Effective. Cheap. Dont'cha just love brewing! Eamonn Mckernan eamonn at rainbow.physics.utoronto.ca Return to table of contents
Date: Wed 9 Nov 94 12:38:01-PST From: Cecila Strickland <CID at mathom.xkl.com> Subject: Bass Ale Hi, There was a recent posting about a brew that was a Bass clone. I haven't had much luck in replicating this recipe, and wonder if it could be posted. Also, thanks for the Liberty Ale recipe. Mine is happily fermenting! Cyd - ------- Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 1994 13:26:58 -0800 From: gtinseth at teleport.com (Glenn Tinseth) Subject: The Hop Source As many of you know, I've owned and operated the Hop Source for the last two years. I started the Hop Source because there was a big need for a hop dealer that took good care of hops (ie vac-sealed, barrier package, sub-freezing storage). Since then a lot of people have joined me in this quest--other hop dealers, hop brokers, and even homebrew shops. Call it ego, but I think I have, in some small way, helped catalyze this paradigm shift (buzzword alert;-) Times change, and families grow--at least mine has. In order to spend more time with my family I made the incredibly tough decision to sell the Hop Source. I was too busy, and since the OR Dept of Ag rules for a home business wouldn't let me hire a helper, I had to call it quits. To cut to the chase, Mark Kellums of Just Hops in Mt Zion, IL, has bought the Hop Source. Mark started Just Hops last March, and meets all of my criteria for a responsible hop dealer. He uses the same packaging system that I do and specializes in whole hops, especially hard to find imported varieties. His retail, club, and wholesale pricing is very similar to mine. If you want to contact Mark at Just Hops, his phone number is 217-864-4216; his address is 335 N Main, Mt Zion, IL 62549. I will continue to be an active participant on the HBD. The hop utilization experiments are continuing (thanks Martin and Jim), I'll keep you posted. I guess I should add a disclaimer. How's this: The Hop Source was my baby and I'd love to see Mark do well. However, I don't have a stake in Just Hops, I'm now just a happy customer and an occasional technical consultant (unpaid). Thanks for the bandwidth and the support over the last two years <sniff> Glenn "Just Another Homebrewer" Tinseth Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1575, 11/10/94