HOMEBREW Digest #1588 Fri 25 November 1994
Digest #1587
Digest #1589
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor
Contents:
blowoff (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Re: iodophor (Jeff Frane)
Re: Kegs to Bottles (Dion Hollenbeck)
Blowoff and Head Retention (Philip Gravel)
A Raspberry Ale Catastrophe! (Eric Hale)
NDN: Homebrew Digest #1587 (November 24, 1994) (Gateway)
Going All-Grain in Norway (Renato Bugge)
Beer Party (BrewerLee)
Polyclar (MYETTE)
Recipie request (John Hippe)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 23 Nov 94 22:17:00 GMT
From: korz at iepubj.att.com (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Subject: blowoff
Allan writes:
>I don't know whether you lose much yeast using a blow-off, but I believe
>you lose a lot of the proteins responsible for head retention. The
>krausen that forms on the top of the beer during fermentation is the
>same stuff that makes the head on your finished beer.
I believe I'm the one who first proposed this theory on HBD, but I'm not
so sure that it is correct. Judging from some imcomplete data, I would
have to say that I think that head retention is affected only minimally
by the blowoff method. I'm still waiting for the rest of the analysis.
Jeff writes:
>About blowoff. I like it. I think it may reduce my bittering slightly,
>but it seems to result in cleaner tasting, smoother beers. I like to
I have to agree there. It does reduce bittering, and a lot more than
I had expetced (again, judging from partial data).
Bill writes:
>No rebuttal, just a remark that an experiment I did and described about a year
>ago in the HBD, supports your line of thought. I pitched my yeast starter into
>a 6 1/2 gallon batch of SG 1.041 Special Bitter, then racked into two 5 gallon
>carboys, filling one to about 3 inches from the top. Active fermentation was
>visible in both batches after about 10 hours and the filled batch began blowing
>off after 12 hours. After 10 days (66F) the non-blowoff batch was finished
>with a SG of 1.011, while the blowoff batch was still at 1.020. I bottled the
>non-blowoff batch and reracked the blowoff batch and let it sit in secondary
>for another 10 days, then bottled with a FG=1.013.
I'm afraid that this was not an ideal experiment. You see, the two sub-batches
have varying fermenter geometries -- the partially full carboy being similar
to a short, squat fermetner. George Fix has reported that the effect of
fermenter geometry can be a significant factor for some yeasts as has DeKlerck.
Personally, most of my batches have been done using the blowoff method and I
have *tried* (on some batches) to fill my fermenters to such a level that
there is *a little* blowoff (as someone else (sorry) mentioned they do), but
since I use about eight different yeasts (and plan to try a few more) and
since my fermentation room temperature varies 10 degrees over the course of
the brewing season and since the gravity of the wort (which has a lot to do
with both the vigor of the ferment) varies quite a bit from batch-to-batch.
I've been unsuccessful in getting the fill level "right" 90% of the time. I
think that it is not a good idea to try to get "a little blowoff," since you
can never really tell how much blowoff there will be and therefore cannot
compensate for the loss in IBUs, for example, when formulating the recipe.
No, I think you really have to commit to blowoff or give the batch ample
headroom in the fermenter to get consistent results.
Al.
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Date: Wed, 23 Nov 1994 16:02:03 -0800 (PST)
From: Jeff Frane <gummitch at teleport.com>
Subject: Re: iodophor
Kirk Harralson wrote:
> Subject: Iodine concentration, again...
>
> Could this particular brand have a lower free iodine content
> which would necessitate using it at 25 PPM, or are the authors just
> being over cautious? I like the idea of using iodophors exclusively
> to sanitize, without rinsing. If I have to rinse, I might as well go
> back to bleach. Also, when using iodophors without a rinse, I know
> that air drying is a necessity. Just how dry is dry enough?
The particular brand is BTF (isn't it?--I cut your copy a little too
deeply). At any rate, 12.5 ppm is plenty, there's absolutely no reason
to rinse, and airdrying is barely necessary. I've been using BTF for,
um a year or two now, after querying George Fix on iodophor. George
told me the only time he rinses at all is in yeast propagation vessels;
those he rinses with cheap commercial brau. Open a can and spray it
out!
There's so little actual iodine left on the glass or SS that
"air-drying" is pretty much a euphemism for "get all the liquid out you
can shake, and then relax."
I used chlorine for years and years, and would never go back. Iodophor
is faster, cleaner, no stink, and I don't have to worry about damage to
kegs.
- --Jeff
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Date: Wed, 23 Nov 94 18:17:26 PST
From: hollen at megatek.com (Dion Hollenbeck)
Subject: Re: Kegs to Bottles
>>>>> "Dave" == Dave Setser <dsetser at nttfsrv.gsfc.nasa.gov> writes:
Dave> I've just purchased all the equipment necessary for kegging my homebrew,
Dave> and love the convenience. The one problem that I've encountered is
Dave> that of bringing samples to club meetings, friends, etc. Does anyone
Dave> know of a method whereby I can condition my beer in the keg, and then
Dave> use the keg to fill a limited number of bottles? Common sense tells
Dave> me that if I just dispense to the bottle and cap it, I'll have problems.
Dave> I'd appreciate any response - the more detailed, the better. Thanks
Dave> in advance!
There are a couple of ways. The simplest (but which has never worked
for me since I don't have fridge space) is to chill the keg down very
cold. Sanitize and chill bottles (freeze them if you can), attach a
vinyl hose over your picnic tap long enough to go down into the bottom
of the bottle and fill the bottles and cap right away.
The best method, IMHO, is a counter pressure filler which does the
same thing, but keeps the beer under the same pressure as in the keg
as it fills the bottle. The pressure is slowly bled off and then the
beer capped.
In either case, be aware that for you to have the correct pressure in
the bottle, you need to force carbonate with about 10psi more than is
correct for dispensing from the keg. I suggest that you determine the
amount you wnat to bottle and then transfer it over into a second
sanitized keg and "overpressure it" and then bottle it after a few
days. How to know how much has been transferred. Put the empty keg
on a scale and watch as the weight goes up as you tansfer. Use the
weight of water as an approximate guideline. Account for any beer
which will stay in the bottom of the keg (about 4 oz.). Just as an
aside, you do know how to transfer beer between kegs using the closed
system method, don't you? Once you get your beer in a keg, there is
never any need for it to come in contact with the outside environment.
If you don't know how to do this, just ask.
dion
Dion Hollenbeck (619)675-4000x2814 Email: hollen at megatek.com
Staff Software Engineer Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California
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Date: Wed, 23 Nov 94 23:33 CST
From: pgravel at mcs.com (Philip Gravel)
Subject: Blowoff and Head Retention
===> Allan Rubinoff comments about krauesen, blowoff and head retention:
>I don't know whether you lose much yeast using a blow-off, but I believe
>you lose a lot of the proteins responsible for head retention. The
>krausen that forms on the top of the beer during fermentation is the
>same stuff that makes the head on your finished beer. During blow-off,
>you lose a lot of krausen.
I won't argue about the potential value that proteins have in head
retention. But I wonder about whether the proteins in the blowoff
contribute much to head retention. Most of the material in the
krauesen of the beers I brew ends up coating the inside surface of
the carboy in the head space area. This material is rather sticky
and insoluble. I normally use diswashing detergent to dissolve it
when cleaning the carboy.
It would seem to me that the proteins that contribute to head retention
are dissolved in the beer. The blowoff material, OTOH, seems to be
rather isoluble. If it's not dissolved in the beer, I don't see how it
could contribute to head retention.
- --
Phil
_____________________________________________________________
Philip Gravel pgravel at mcs.com
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Date: Wed, 23 Nov 94 19:19 EST
From: Eric Hale <S=Eric_Hale%S=Hale%G=Eric%I=ER%BECHTEL at mcimail.com>
Subject: A Raspberry Ale Catastrophe!
Help! Sunday (11/20) I brewed a ale flavored with raspberries. I
used a basic ale recipe (I don't have the recipe in front of me.
It's basically something like: 3.3 lb malt extract, 2 lb light
DME, Munton and Fison Ale Yeast, 1 oz Fuggle hops flavor, and 1 oz
Cascade hops finish). I added 5 12 oz packages of frozen
raspberries when I pitched the yeast and gave it a good shake. I
filled my carboy to the bottom of the neck with the wort (I had to
throw a little away). I ran a blow-off tube to a pail with bleach
and water mixture.
//======\\
|| \\
( ) ||
| | \\
|o0oOo| ||
Raspberries --> /o0OooOo00\ ||
/0OoO0ooo0oo0O\ \\
/oOo0o0o0ooO0oOoo0\ \\
| | \\
| | ||
| | ||
| | ||
| | ||
| | |___||___|
| | | || |
| | | || |
(___________________) (________)
Everything was great on Monday. I changed the bleach water
mixture. I noticed the raspberries had swelled a little and moved
a bit up the neck of the carboy maybe 1/2 inch. The blow-off was
steady; a bubble every 5 seconds or so.
I came home yesterday (Tuesday 11/22) and there was freaking mess
everywhere! Most of the raspberries and a bunch beer all over the
floor. If I didn't know better, I'd swear someone poured it out.
The level of the beer is now about 5 inches less than before and
about 3/4 of the raspberries went on the floor. There's no krausen
to speak off on top of the raspberries
//======\\
|| \\
( ) ||
| | \\
| | ||
/ \ ||
/ \ \\
Raspberries --> /oOo0o0o0ooO0oOoo0\ ||
| | ||
| | //
| | //
| | //
| | // |0o___o__|
| | || | O |
| | || | o |
o0 o0o 0(oo_OOoo0_oo0Oo0o_oo)0 oo (_oo0_o__)00ooOoOo oO0o
I cleaned up the mess and put an air lock on.
Do I have to trash this batch? Is it appropriate to throw in some
campden (never used it before)? Is there anything else I can do to
make this batch come out okay? Did I screw up? What when wrong?
Help!
Eric Hale
6465348 at mcimail.com
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Date: 24 Nov 1994 02:47:11 -0000
From: Gateway at foxmail.gfc.edu (Gateway)
Subject: NDN: Homebrew Digest #1587 (November 24, 1994)
Sorry. Your message could not be delivered to:
ymoriya,George Fox College (The name was not found at the remote site. Check
that the name has been entered correctly.)
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Date: Thu, 24 Nov 1994 15:58:39 -0100
From: renato.bugge at fys.uio.no (Renato Bugge)
Subject: Going All-Grain in Norway
Hi there!
This is a story of how I became an all-grain brewer here in Norway.
Many years ago, when I first brewed my own beer, I did not know exactly
how to do it. I had consulted an old book (from about 1870) where beer
was simply a mixure of sugar, water, some spices and baking yeast. Later
I began brewing my beer using some malt-extract in it, and even later using
hops from my parents garden. The beer was never a big hit among my
friends, but all along it was beer. About a year ago, I found my first beer-
kit in a store here in Oslo. To my great satisfaction it also tasted like=
beer
and it was cheap in comparison to the ENORMOUS taxed beers in the
stores (in Norway). My first batch consisted of 1 Ironmaster Irish Stout
kit and 1kg of sugar. The next batch, which I called Dark Export, was a
mixure of 1 Ironmaster Export kit and 1kg hopped porter malt extract. This
was a major hit among friends and when I later found a bottle from the
first kit-batch, I must say it was a great improvement. I will never forget
this sour citron-like taste that sugar gave my first batch (no, it was not
oxidized beer). After this I made some more batches with beer and also
a batch of apple cider:
7 liter Delight concentrated apple juice
250 g raisins,
1 kg glucose sugar,
15 liter fresh water,
a packet of champagne yeast.
Ferment for 1-2 months. Mature in bottle for another 2 months.
Finally I decided to go all-grain, but I got this little problem:=
Where
could I buy malted barley grains? The problem was the price: =A32.5/lb=20
($4/lb)!! This meant that going all-grain in Norway was more expensive
than using extracts. To solve this problem, I phoned this firm in England
that had all sorts of brewing-things. He was not able to help me as the
shipping price would exceed the grain-price several times. I later posted
and mailed many people without very much results. I got some nice ideas,
though, and later decidet to try to malt myself. A month later I gave up
the idea as I was not able to get the required information ( Yes, I know,
it's on sierra.stanford.edu now, but not then).
Then there was a beer-festival, actually the first in Norway ever,=
that
got me in touch with this man. He told me that his brewery actually sold
malt in sacks of 25 and 50 kg at the price of 14 - 8Nkr /kg ( =A30.58-=A30.3=
3/lb
or $0.91-$0.52/lb). As I needed 3-4 different types of grains and most of
pale malt, I soon figured out that I had to split this with someone else.
Happily, Hans Ludvig wanted to brew he too, so we went to buy some.
The brewer was a nice fellow so we bought 50 kg pale malt + some
smaller quantities of crystal, chocolate and black malt. (We didn't have to
buy whole sacks of those). He also sold us some fresh hops and gave us
a bottle of living yeast for free (the yeast smelled like fresh flowers). I=
can
not remember his name, but it is he that runs (and owns, I think) Akershus
Bryggeri here in Norway. Thank you again!
Last weekend we got together (Hans Ludvig, I and a friend of his) to
try to make some thing out of this grain. We had a 20 liter (4 gallon) metal
bucket which we used to mash the grain, a grain sack which I had made,
fermenting wessels and all the other necessary equipment. As we wanted
to make two batches, we decided to make a stout and some christmas beer.
We crushed 3.5 kg of pale malt and 0.5 kg black malt for the stout. 1 kg of
crystal malt (uncrushed) was also added. After mashing and sparging
our wort!, we got an original gravity of about 1.034. We thought this was
strange, but has happy anyway. We had made beer from grains, it could
actually be done, what a joy!
The next day, we discovered what was wrong with the first batch.
After having mashed 6 kg of crushed grains for 1 hour, Hans Ludvig put
his finger into the malt sack, and it was cold! Not even room temperature!
The water outside was at perfect mashing temperature (66C), but inside the
sack it was cold, cold and even colder. So we decided to drop the grain-
sack and mashed 1/2 hour without it. Result: Original gravity 1.054. Not
good, but better.
To try to minimize the damage, we decided to put some extra malt=
into
the stout. It was also an experiment to see if uncrushed grains contributed
with any malt at all. We used 1 kg of uncrushed pale malt with 4-5 liters of
water. After 1 hour mashing, the mash had got a corn-flavour, but it was
not sweet (no malt it there). So we threw it all away and decided that light
stout was better than no stout at all.
As I have experienced with kits, bottle-washing is the most boring
procedure of homebrewing. Happily, Hans Ludvig got this nice idea: Why
not buy washed bottles from a large brewery. So I phoned Ringnes
Brewery here in Oslo and a man named Lislelien (I hope this was his name),
said that they should wash 1/2-litre bottles this week and it was no problem
at all. Today I collected 5 cases of clean 1/2-liter bottles (the one with
squeesing caps, not screw-caps). He gave me many advices on cleaniness
as it was the main problem in their jobs. "Milk acid bacterias", he said,=
"is
what will ruin your beer". He also learnt me that I had to wash the clean
bottles in boiling water (as some dust will always enter under transport),
then cover them with aluminium-foil until using them. The nice man also
gave me some bottle-caps for free, and I have promised him a taste of the
finished products.
Back to the beer: Yesterday the beer was fermenting madly, and I=
think
it will turn out nice. So, to all you out there that will like to make a=
REAL
x-mas beer with only malt, hops and water in it, here is the recipe:
Oslo christmas ale.
-----
5 kg Crushed Pale Malt,
1 kg Crushed Crystal Malt,
200 g Crushed Chocolate Malt,
30 g Fresh saaz hops,
30 g Hallertau hops,
Fresh, living top-fermenting ale yeast,
Clean, fresh water.
Crush the grains. 200 g chocolate malt gives a rather dark x-mas beer. 100 g
will give a more Norwegian-type-x-mas-beer-look. Mash grains with 20-
10 liters of water (20 is best, 10 is good enough). Filter out grains and=
heat
up for boiling. Pour in the Hallertauer hops and boil for 50 min., then add
the saaz hops. Boil for another 15 min. and filer out the hops. Pour the
boiled wort into fermenting wessel with the rest of the wort (we only boil
half of the wort). Pitch the yeast when the wort has cooled. After=20
fermentation (7-14 days), transfer to another container containing 200g
of pale malt extract (heated with some water to get it more liquid). Be
careful not to oxidate the beer (bringing oxygen into it will turn some
alcohol into vinegar acid that tastes sour). Then transfer the beer into
bottles, removing the cover just before tapping the beer into one and cap
it at once. Allow 2-3 weeks maturation.
If you don't want to use malt extract for priming the bottles, you could
make some yourselves. Use some crushed malt (1 kg?) and mash it. Boil
the wort until most of the water has evaporated and use it for priming.
(Remember to keep very cool in sterile container(s) as it can easily get
infected when it is not hopped). I don't think it is any problem by freezing
the extract either.
So long, happy x-mas brewing!
Renato Bugge - Physics & homebrewing.
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Date: Thu, 24 Nov 1994 11:37:47 -0500
From: BrewerLee at aol.com
Subject: Beer Party
Stan White writes in 1587:
I've hosted quite a few parties as you have suggested. It has gone a big way
towards if not educating them them then to keep them from wondering why I go
through all of this (BJCP, competitions, brewing, etc).
I started with a Framboise (!), a, American Wheat (I think Boulevard), went
to a Sam Adams Lager (I hate SA stuff but there was a purpose to my madness)
and I think we went to a mild German Pilsner like a Warstiener. I don't
remember if we did a Porter that night but I have served Big Shoulders Porter
before. A very nice porter with a rich, chocolaty taste. We finished with a
Guinness Pub Draft complete with a dissertation about the head qualities and
the reasons for the NO2 in the bottom of the can. The stout served as more of
an after dinner coffee and most people enjoyed it at that point. The most
important addition to the table was Michael Jackson (whom I met the other
night at a local brewery *smirk* :)) I always have his books around while
tasting and _ALWAYS_ when showing friends around the wonderful world of beer.
He is able (after years of practice I assure you) to put into words what I
can't about the flavors and the experience of the beers.
It's a fun thing to do and by all means go for it!!
By the way, If anyone cares I'm changing my server from AOL to a full service
one. My new address is: leeb at southwind.net
On a related note: I now receive the HBD on three addresses and can't
shuttem' off! Anybody know the EXACT way to send an UNSUBSCRIBE?
-Lee Bussy
BrewerLee at aol.com
leeb at southwind.net
Wichita, Kansas
November 24, 1994
10:26 am
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Date: Thu, 24 Nov 1994 12:26:07 -0500 (EST)
From: MYETTE at delphi.com
Subject: Polyclar
My son was reading in Homebrew Bible and it mentions the use of Polyclar to
help in preventing chill haze, which we have some problems with. No big deal,
but I would like a clear beer. Papazin mentions 2 tsp for 5 gallons, but he
fails to mention how to prepare the stuff.
Do I just dump 2 tsp in the secondary?
Boil it with water?
Mix it with vodka?
Anyone help us out
Ann
Myette at delphi.com
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Date: Thu, 24 Nov 1994 15:07:02 -0500 (EST)
From: John Hippe <johnd at iglou.com>
Subject: Recipie request
My wife and I had Samuel Smith's Winter Welcome Ale last night and we
both really enjoyed it. This is the first beer that my wife has enjoyed
so I am anxious to try to make a clone. Does anyone have a recipie or
ideas for a recipie?
TIA
- --
John David Hippe
Internet: johnd at iglou.com
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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1588, 11/25/94