HOMEBREW Digest #1630 Fri 13 January 1995

Digest #1629 Digest #1631

		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor

  Primary fermentation using lager yeast (ecklund)
  Honey in beer.... how much? (uswlsrap)
  Ice bock (rnantel)
  Redhook ESB recipe (mlloyd)
  5 liter Mini Kegs (Nigel Townsend)
  NDN: Homebrew Digest #1629 (January 12, 1995) (Gateway)
  Sam Adams Winter Lager (Anthony Meehan)
  water chemistry help ? (Jon Petty)
  thanks for help (William Moulis)
  Mexicali Rogue (Robin Garr)
  2L PET bottles (Ed Hitchcock)
  Supply Store Info. (M_MACADAMS)
  Responses (Douglas R. Jones)
  Fermentap Inquiry (Schwab_Bryan)
  One problem with the spigot on the EasyMasher<tm>: (Philip DiFalco)
  RE: water chemistry (Jim Dipalma)
  Infusion question (Mark Evans)
  re:Champagne Bottles ("Glen A. Wagnecz, X6616")
  re: Oates ("Glen A. Wagnecz, X6616")
  Oatmeal Stout Recipe ("Glen A. Wagnecz, X6616")
  Warm temp Lagers / decoction mash ("Lee A. Menegoni")
  using licorice (Tim Lawson)
  beer fridge questions (Chris Lovelace)
  Kegging Lagers Question (Jeff Stampes)
  stuck fermentation (chc2)
  Information on homebrewing (ANTHONY  HARWARD)
  Bottle "crimes" (Bruce Beckwith)
  Honey in Brewing (John Landreman)
  Culturing wild yeast (Linscheid, SSgt James)
  Mega gingered holiday ale (Paul Baker)
  oxygen permeable plastic? (ANDY WALSH)
  foxmail (DONBREW)
  Mac brewing software (JimSomers)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 11 Jan 1995 15:30:51 -0500 From: ecklund at tcpcs3.dnet.etn.com Subject: Primary fermentation using lager yeast Being a novice at the "homebrew game", I am about to cook up a recipe that will be my first experience using lager yeast. The particular concoction that I am contemplating is Papazian's Rocky Racoon Honey Lager (TNCJOHB). Although this recipe simply states that the beer can be bottled once fermentation is complete, I thought that an extended period of time at a reduced temperature in a secondary fermenter would be required to obtain the proper results. In addition,I believe that I read that using a liquid yeast as opposed to the dry variety can yield substantial benefits especially in lagers. The remaining portion of C.P.'s instructions seem pretty straight forward but I would certainly appreciate any first hand input from anyone who has tried this recipe or who might be able to shed some light on my dilemma. Thanx in advance, Bill from Kazoo Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 1995 16:28:09 EST From: uswlsrap at ibmmail.com Subject: Honey in beer.... how much? - -------------------- Mail Item Text Follows ------------------ To: I1010141--IBMMAIL From: Bob Paolino Research Analyst Subject: Honey in beer.... how much? I've been an all-malt snob about my brewing. Other than corn sugar for priming, a couple times with brown sugar in a cider or Imperial, and various fruit and vegetable additions, I've been hesitant to use non-malt fermentables. Okay, maybe not _quite_ a purist,and after all,those Belgians use sugar all the time. Well, I'm going to use honey for the first time to boost a high-gravity brew, one that would be damn big on the basis of its malt content alone, but want it just that little bit bigger. I _thought_ I was going to brew last night (but the yeast told me otherwise), and just got the supermarket variety honey (store brand, "fancy Grade A") in a two pound jar. The alternative was something labelled "mostly clover honey." The store brand stuff was cheaper per pound than even the five-pound jug and looked lighter in colour than the other stuff. I don't want the honey to have an obvious effect on the flavour of this beer. I'm not looking to make a "classic style _specialty_" beer, to use AHA style terminology; I just want a boost in gravity and perhaps a subtle effect from the honey. Does two pounds in a 4-5 gallon batch sound about right? Should I use more? At what point would the honey begin to have a noticeable effect? (It may well be listed in a book in my library, but what's the approximate contribution to gravity for a pound of honey?) Is grocery store honey going to be okay in this small amount? In larger amounts? Thanks for sharing your experience and expertise. Now go have a beer, Bob Paolino / Disoriented in Badgerspace /uswlsrap at ibmmail.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 95 14:36:46 +0000 From: rnantel at ibm.net Subject: Ice bock It is -15F and rather than complain, I've decided to see the benefits of this frigid cold wave instead of dreaming of warm, sandy beaches. It would seem I have all the cold I need to attempt to brew an ice bock. I'm hoping to get something as great as Niagara Falls Brewing's Ice Bock; Canada's finest beer. Here's the plan: 1. Brew an all-grain Helles based on a recipe in Richman's Bock book - -- available only in paperbock ;) 2. When fermentation is complete after ? amount of time in glass secondary, rack to a primary plastic bucket and place outside for ? amount of time. 3. Remove large chuncks of ice thereby substantially increasing strength. Any ideas? Any comments? //---------------------------------------------------------------------------- // Richard Nantel // Westmount, Quebec Canada // (rnantel at ibm.net) Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 95 20:06:44 EST From: mlloyd at cuix.pscu.com Subject: Redhook ESB recipe David Shea had a question about cloning Redhook ESB. I am pleased to offer my mash-extract recipe for a clone of Redhook ESB. I call it Trolleyman ESB and the figures for a 5 gallon batch are OG: 1.050 and FG: 1.013 with a color of 12.1 SRM. Trolleyman ESB 6.6 lbs Alexander light malt extract syrup 10 oz. 60 degree Lovibond crystal malt (crushed) 4 oz. malto-dextrin 32 IBU Willamette hop pellets (boil) 1.0 oz Tettnang hop pellets (finish) 1.0 oz. Tettnang hop pellets (dry hop) 1 tsp Irish moss Wyeast # 1098 (British ale) liquid yeast 3/4 cup corn sugar for priming Steep crystal malt in 4 gallons 160 degree water for 30 minutes and strain out grains. Bring water to boil and add malt extract syrup, malto-dextrin and Willamette hops for a 60 minute boil. Add Irish moss for last 30 minutes of boil and add Tettnang hops for last two minutes of boil. Turn off heat and allow to steep for 30 minutes while chilling your wort. Transfer to primary, top off to 5 gallons and pitch yeast at 72 degrees. Rack to secondary and add 1 oz. Tettnang hop pellets as dry hop. Add appropriate clarifiers, add 3/4 cup corn sugar and bottle. You will note that I use no water treatment. During a Redhook brewery tour, I was told that they use no water treatment. Since I live near Seattle and use the same water, I opted to not use gypsum. Our water is very soft, your water may of course vary. I have refined this recipe over several batches. It cannot be told from Redhook ESB in a blind taste test. The fresh Tettnang finish lasts longest when oxygen absorbing caps are used on the bottles. Michael G. Lloyd Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 1995 15:39:01 GMT From: nigelt at delm.tas.gov.au (Nigel Townsend) Subject: 5 liter Mini Kegs Dan (DBURKE at smtpgate.tnrcc.texas.gov) asked 3 Jan about the effects of over priming a keg. I have done the same with a 40 litre plastic keg and all I did was to release pressure the a valve on the top. As the hiss stopped whistling and slowed down, I released the valve. I did this daily until the pressure increase slowed. At this time the beer was drinkable (but very sweet) so I released pressure by drinking the beer. The beer was very foamy at this point. 2 pints of froth became 1 pint of beer in about 5 minutes. It became less sweet with time (4-5 weeks). Hope this is useful. - -- Nigel Townsend nigelt at delm.tas.gov.au Tasmania, Auastralia Return to table of contents
Date: 12 Jan 1995 01:46:09 -0000 From: Gateway at foxmail.gfc.edu (Gateway) Subject: NDN: Homebrew Digest #1629 (January 12, 1995) Sorry. Your message could not be delivered to: Robert Hoover,George Fox College (The name was not found at the remote site. Check that the name has been entered correctly.) Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 1995 07:07 -0500 (EST) From: anthony_meehan at Merck.Com (Anthony Meehan) Subject: Sam Adams Winter Lager A friend of mine asked me what I thought the difference was between Sam Adam's Lager and Sam Adam's Winter Lager. Unfortunately I have no idea. Can anyone help me out on this one? Tony Meehan meehan at merck.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 95 8:04:07 EST From: Jon Petty <jpetty at PICA.ARMY.MIL> Subject: water chemistry help ? Since we have a thread on water chemistry going I'd like to solicit an opinion. My typical pale ale mash has a PH of about 4.5. The books say to add chalk (calcium carbonate) to adjust PH to 5.2. I have to add gobs of this stuff to see any change because it doesn't readily dissolve in water. Also I don't want all the carbonate in a pale ale. I have used sodium bicarbonate and a teaspoon is enough to get me to 5.2, but again I don't want the carbonate or the sodium. Most pale ale recipes call for additions of CaSO4 but this would lower my PH further. My choices seem to be; run the mash at 4.5 or add the bicarbonate or ? Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 1995 07:26:54 +0100 From: wjmoulis at facstaff.wisc.edu (William Moulis) Subject: thanks for help Hello All, I would like to thank all of the friendly people that replied to my request for help in getting started. I would have preferred to thank you individually, but between Christmas and New years day, one of my children accidentally reformatted the hard drive on my pc and I lost all my saved email messages. Again, thank you all. Bill Moulis <<<< [..]- ( U ) ________________________________oOOo_ \_/ _oOOo____________________________ { } } William Moulis; Electronics Technician | voice: (608) 265-2600 { { University of Wisconsin | fax: (608) 265-0325 } } Division of Information Technology | wjmoulis at facstaff.wisc.edu { { Audio Visual Installation & Repair } } 1327 University Ave. Madison, WI 53715 { { } }___________________________________________________________________________ { Return to table of contents
Date: 12 Jan 95 08:54:00 EST From: Robin Garr <76702.764 at compuserve.com> Subject: Mexicali Rogue In Digest No. 1629, Mark Thompson proposes to brew a clone of Rogue's Mexicali Rogue. A fine choice! Mark said: > I was planning on using a pale ale as the base but I'm not sure how to > proceed with the chipolte. > So my question is how much chipolte to use and should I: > a.) Add to the mash (or specialty grain steep). > b.) Add to the boil and if so how long. > c.) Make a chipolte tea... Mmmm > d.) Dry hop (or dry pepper in this case). I first encountered this delicious brew at the Great American Beer Festival in 1992. The folks at the Rogue booth were a little sketchy with the details, but they definitely said that they "dry-pepper" with chipotles in the secondary. I'd suggest experimenting with quantities by steeping a small amount of chipotle (maybe 1/4 of one average-size pepper) in one 12-ounce bottle of similar beer overnight. Taste it after 24 hours, and keep experimenting until the combination of time and amount steeped make the beer taste just right. Then multiply that amount of peppers by 48 to calculate the correct amount for a five-gallon batch. (This probably goes without saying, but you'll want to use dried chipotles, not the canned variety in sauce!) Robin Garr | "I have enjoyed great health at a great age because Associate Sysop | every day since I can remember I have consumed a bottle CompuServe | of wine except when I have not felt well. Then I have Wine/Beer Forum | consumed two bottles." -- A Bishop of Seville rgarr at iglou.com 76702.764 at compuserve.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 1995 10:16:33 -0400 (AST) From: Ed Hitchcock <ehitchcock at sparc.uccb.ns.ca> Subject: 2L PET bottles Al, in response to Dana, states that PET bottles should only be used for storage under 1 month, due to O2 diffusion. I disagree. Though PET plastic is fairly permeable to CO2, it is not nearly as permeable to oxygen. I have stored beer in 2L PET plastic bottles for three months or more (in a cool, dark place) with little problem. I would reccomend, however, that you bottle some beer in 2L, some in 1L, and some in regular bottles (you can use 22 oz bottles if you like, that cuts down on capping). That way if you feel like having one beer, you don't have to open the equivalent of a six pack. Save the 2L bottles for parties. ---------------- Ed Hitchcock, now on the right side of the student/staff division ehitchcock at sparc.uccb.ns.ca Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 1995 09:17:20 -0500 From: M_MACADAMS at Mail.Co.Chester.PA.US Subject: Supply Store Info. I know this isn't a business forum, but a friend of mine is considering opening a homebrew supply store and would like to talk with someone who has done it. If there is anyone out there that has and would be willing to answer some questions, please e-mail me. Thanks, Mike Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 1995 09:29:18 -0600 From: djones at iex.com (Douglas R. Jones) Subject: Responses >Ron writes: > at my basement's winter temperature (about 52 to 62 degrees, depending ><snip> > slower, but okay. Both versions of American Ale are still fermenting > after 18 days in the jug, and a sniff test shows some peculiar > "fruity" smell in both. It'll be a while before I can do serious taste I am not sure why you have a "fruity smell". This is not something that I have encountered before. What I would like to suggest is something that is working VERY well for me. I have a 32 gallon plastic trash can in my garage. It is wrapped in an old sleeping bag. Inside is my carboy sitting on a couple of bricks. The trash can is filled with enough water so that the beer is covered. You don't want too much water as you can float the carboy. I use a aquarium heater to keep the temp constant. It has been holding a steady 65F for 3 weeks now. Try it. It was cheap to setup, got the carboy off the bathroom counter (which makes the other half VERY happy) and it works! >Tom Ausfeld wrote: >I currently have three cornelius kegs, which are all full. But I >have an Oatmeal Stout sitting in its primary fermenter (carbouy) >since 12/30. Here's my question: If I rack over to a secondary >fermenter, how long can I safely leave it in there to condition? >Should I rack over every couple of weeks or is a month OK? It has been my experience (ie what works for me YMMV etc.) that one week in the primary and then 2 - 4 weeks in the secondary. Based on my experiences I would save 4 - 6 weeks would probably be fine. Doug - -------------------------------------------------- 'I am a traveler of | Douglas R. Jones both Time and Space' | IEX Corporation Led Zepplin | (214)301-1307 | djones at iex.com - -------------------------------------------------- Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 95 09:51:00 CST From: Schwab_Bryan at lanmail.ncsc.navy.mil Subject: Fermentap Inquiry Fellow Hbrs, has anyone any experience or opinions on the "Fermentap" shown in the winter Zymurgy issue? If so, I'd like to hear about it. Private E-mail or otherwise TIA Bryan {SCHWAB_BRYAN at LANMAIL.NCSC.NAVY.MIL}:DDN:NAVY Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 95 10:36:13 -0500 From: Philip DiFalco <sxupjd at gds.fnma.COM> Subject: One problem with the spigot on the EasyMasher<tm>: > In HBD #1628, Steve Robinson mentioned that: > > One problem with the spigot on the EasyMasher<tm>: > The taper on the nozzle makes it difficult to keep > a hose from slipping off. I've experienced a similar concern. Even a hose clamp does not resolve this problem too well. Has anyone come up with a solution for this problem? (email or post if you have any solutions). Thanks. - --- Philip DiFalco, sxupjd at fnma.com FannieMae, 3900 Wisconsin Ave., NW, Washington, DC 20016 1-202-752-2812; 1-800-SKY-FNMA (PIN#471-1735) Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 95 11:36:41 EST From: dipalma at sky.com (Jim Dipalma) Subject: RE: water chemistry Hi All, Regarding the thread on water chemistry, I cited Noonan: >>"It contributes a harsh, bitter flavor overwhelming in delicate lagers, and >>carbonate in excess of 200 ppm (which my water has - Jim) is tolerable only >>when a dark roasted malt is used to buffer its excessive acidity. >>Preferably, carbonate should be less than 50 ppm when pale malt or infusion >>mashing is used." In HBD#1629, Al K. responded: >As you well know, no book is error-free and if indeed this is not a typo, >it should have read: "only when a roasted malt is used to balance its >excessive alkalinity." I don't think it's a typo, but I agree that the sentence is not particularly well written. It can be interpreted that carbonate itself is excessively acidic, and that the dark roasted malt is providing the buffering, which is clearly incorrect. I think Al's response states the intended semantic much more accurately. >Also, I don't agree that infusion mashing does not >lend itself to high-carbonate water -- surely London's Porter and Dublin's >Stout are infusion mashed. Agreed. My take on Noonan's statement is that a mash comprised of pale malt does not sufficiently acidify during infusion mashing *if* the water used is buffered by high carbonate levels, and thus either dark malts or decoction mashing should be used. I base that statement on what I've read about the production of pilsners in Pilsen. The water there is extremely soft, it certainly is not high in carbonates, but it also has a very low level of the calcium ion. As so eloquently stated by Bob Hall a few days ago, calcium is a key player in mash acidification. The triple decoction mash procedure used by the brewers of Pilsner Urquell is at least in part an adaptation to low levels of calcium in the local water supply. I'm somewhat embarrased to admit that I don't know exactly how or why decoction mashing contributes to mash acidification, (I've done over 40 decoction mashes myself) if anyone can provide some details, I'd appreciate it. Cheers, Jim dipalma at sky.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 1995 10:41:48 -0600 From: evanms at lcac1.loras.edu (Mark Evans) Subject: Infusion question I've used the infusion method to mash grains for years. I used to use two steps--a protein rest at about 122F and then up to around 155F. Then I would heat the pot to mash out temp (170F) on the stove. Since I have gone to highly modified malt, I have also gone to a single step infusion to save time. To reach the mashout temp I have inverted the papzian method and add a small amount of boiling water to raise the pot to mashout temps in my insulated tun. Question: What is the collective wisdom of doing the final temp raising this way? Most methods call for raising to mashout temp "over a ten minute period" (e.g.) etc. Whaddya think? Am I okay? I get the right temperature in the end. thanks brewfully mark Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 95 12:55:30 EST From: "Glen A. Wagnecz, X6616" <wagnecz at PICA.ARMY.MIL> Subject: re:Champagne Bottles Tom Puskar asks various questions regarding champagne bottles. Some quick points: 1) Several people have had problems capping them with the hand held lever cappers, although most of the arbor types work (I have a "colonna" from Red Bank Brewing in NJ, which will even cap the 1.5 Liter "Magnums"). 2) There are several brands of campagne bottles that have a lip diameter hat is slightly larger than that of a standard beer cap (one of these is Cooks brand). Always bring a beer cap with you to discriminate if you're not sure. 3) I highly recommend "Korbel" and Marinelli" brand bottles, as they are fairly robust, de-label easily, and are fairly common at the Recycling center. 4) To de-label, soak in bleach water in a slop sink or 5-gallon pails. Let them sit for a couple of days and the solution will do the work. I've heard people suggest ammonia instead of bleach. They both work about the same, but bleach doesn't stink up the basement the way ammonia will. Hope this helps- Glen (This year's haul was close to 200 bottles, although all the campagne I had to drink was about 2 oz.'s... :) ) Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 95 13:03:27 EST From: "Glen A. Wagnecz, X6616" <wagnecz at PICA.ARMY.MIL> Subject: re: Oates Daniel Crawford asks for advice on oates to use in an oatmeal stout. I like to use Shoprite brand "Old Fashioned Oates". The container says "rolled oates". They need to be cooked for about five minutes. I also like to get them as close to my mash temperature as possible. Someone also suggested to me that the oatmeal can be used to adjust the temperature of a mash, given its potent thermal mass. I could see this in the case of bringing the temperature up after a protein rest, but I usually just do a straight 155 F. conversion for stouts. Quantity should be one pound per 5 gallons of intended wort volume (before cooking dry weight). I'll post my stout recipe for those that want it. Glen Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 95 13:14:34 EST From: "Glen A. Wagnecz, X6616" <wagnecz at PICA.ARMY.MIL> Subject: Oatmeal Stout Recipe Sand Pit Special* This recipe was adapted from Bob Jones "Smoooth Stout". Further guidance regarding the use of oatmeal was provided by Spencer Thomas. The rest was just plain experimenting (Evil Scientist/Boo!). This recipe is one of my most well received by both beer and non-beer drinkers alike. Some call it a "desert beer" because of its richness. Grain Bill: These grains are mashed per below: 25# 2-Row Pale 3.5# 60 L Crystal 4.0# Carapils Prepared separately: 3# Shoprite Old Fashioned Oates (Rolled Oates), cooked for about 10 minutes around 160 F. Use a big pot for this! These grains are steeped after mashout (see "Steep" below): 1.75# Roast 0.25# Black Patent 1.0# Chocolate Mashing Procedure: Preheat the picnic cooler with boiling water, dump, and add the grains (pale, crystal, and carapils). Strike with between 7 and 8 gallons of 175 F. degree water (YMMV) to get to about 155 F. When the temperature is stable (10 minutes), add the prepared oatmeal and stir gently. Let sit for 1 1/2 hours and begin sparge. Use enough water (9-11 gallons) at 170 F. to collect 16 gallons. Why 16? Because I like to drain 1 gallon off of the bottom for my next starter! After you've got the 15 remaining gallons in the boiler, ignite the jet engine or other device capable of supplying the heat that this big thermal mass will soak up. My experience is that I'm usually around 135 F. at the start. Steeping. Take the specialty grains and place them in a section cut from some nylon pantyhose and secure with a knot. Tye a string to this and drop into the kettle. About every minute or so raise the bag and allow to drain slightly. Steal a clear glass of the wort and check it for taste (should taste roasty and somewhat nutty, but not overpowering, because the sweetness that is presently balancing the taste will be gone after fermentation). My second test is the black cat test. Glance pass the glass to the black cat and color should be close. If you don't have a black cat, hold the glass up to a medium light and you shouldn't see through it. Take another sip. Yum. A word of caution, if you don't get the taste before 165 > 170 F. (you probably will well before), kill the heat and finish the steep before proceeding. The Boil. Approach the boil carefully (use a thermometer). The same things that give this beer its nice creamy head just ask for a boilover. DO NOT TAKE YOUR EYES OFF THE KETTLE UNTIL YOU GET A HOTBREAK. At boil, add 1/2 ounce of Nugget (13% AA) or the equivalent AA% of a similar bittering hop and boil for an hour. Remove the Nugget, kill the heat. Add 1 ounce of East Kent Goldings + 2 ounces of Fuggles (I use a hop bag so you may want to reduce this quantity some) and turn on the cooling. Pitch yeast starter around 75 F. YOU MUST USE A BLOWOFF TUBE FOR THIS ONE. I have never made this batch without experiencing a good day's worth of eruptions. The Irish is nice, however, in that it finishes rather quickly, two weeks at most. Carbonate per your tastes. The starter. I use the Wyeast Irish Ale Yeast (1084?) puffed and pitched to a 1.050 starter. Leave yourself at least two days in advance to "farm" around 3/4 gallon of krausening starter. Like Bob's original recipe, it tastes OK after about2 weeks in the bottle, but tastes killer after about 6-8 weeks. Holds its good taste for months after that... It's called Sand Pit Special because the water comes from the spring that feeds the sand pit out back... Glen Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 95 11:47:49 EST From: "Lee A. Menegoni" <lmenegoni at nectech.com> Subject: Warm temp Lagers / decoction mash Warm Temp Lagers: In a few recent post brewers have asked if it was: 1) ok to use lager yeast at warm temps , 60F or so,and 2: if they have to cold condition after primary ferment. In short the answers are 1: no 2: yes, if you want a beer that tastes and smells like a lager then you need to follow accepted practices if not you compromise the final product. A lager beer is typically chacterized by a clean taste and aroma of malt and hops. As one raises the fermentation temp beyond the suggested range for a yeast it tends to produce flavor and aroma chacteristics that are ale like and aren't part of the lager style. If one want s to produce a Lager like beer , assuming the fermentation temp doesn't drop much below 60F I would suggest using a lager recipe and 1056 yeast, Yes it will ferment slow and you may have to agiate the carboy to resuspend yeast but it will produce a very clean beer with minimum fruityness and esters. The results are much more predictable than warm temp ferments with lager yeast. A beer brewed this way may take a few weeks to finish but a true lager will take at least a month and typically two or more. . During the cold conditioning, lagering, phase of beer production a couple significant things occur, diacetyl produced in the early stages of fermentation are reduced by the yeast to other compounds with higher taste and aroma thresholds also sulphury flavor and aroma components are minimized. These clean up the flavor and aroma of the beer. Yes diacetyl reduction can be sped up by doing a diacetyl rest after primary but its absolute level is a function of primary temp so a warm ferment may produce more than the yeast can later reduce. . Additionally yeast and proteins will fall out of suspension and you will have a clearer brew. In another post someone posted about why decoction mash and what effects it has on a brew. As a regulat user of this technique, even in ales, let me comment: Benefits of a decoction: 1) improved yeild due to additional starch gelanization. I have not done detailed experiments to measure yeild increase. 2) increased melanodin formation from boiling A fellow brewer who makes a fine steam beer does a single decoction on the pale malt for one batch he didn't this batch had a noticable lack of maltyness in its flavor and aroma. IMHO any beer style in which malt flavor and aroma are important componets of the style are enhanced by decoction mash these would include Bohemian Pilsner, Ofests Bocks and many other German style lagers. 3)means of adding heat to an unheated mash tun I have started using the 40, 60, 70C mash schedule for highly modified malts, which most malts are now. A decoction is an excellent means of raising the main mash from 60 to 70C, 140 to 158F. After infusing the main mash to 140 I let it sit for 5 minutes, I pull a decoction and heat this to 158 hold 15 minutes and boil for 5 minutes. I add this to the main mash and let it sit until all is converted, this really doesn't add much to the mash time since it occurs in parallel to the main mash. The 5 minutes at 140 plus the heating to 158 and the 15 minute sach rest allow for most if not all the starch to be converted, any unconverted starch plus the gelatanized starch from the boil get converted in the enzyme rich main mash. Down side: 1) more time consuming Each decoction step takes about 40-60 minutes 2) potential tannin extraction if decotion is too thin. Not really a problem if the decoction is mostly grain and little liquid. Lee Menegoni Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 95 14:39:20 EST From: Tim Lawson <lawson at clcunix.msj.edu> Subject: using licorice I would like to brew a stout with licorice and would like some suggestions from those of you who have used it. I would like to know (a) what type of licorice to use (licorice root, brewer's licorice, etc), (b) how much to use to be noticeable but not overpowering, and (c) at what point to add it to the wort/beer (e.g., boil 60 minutes, boil 2 min., add to secondary fermenter, etc.). Thanks in advance! Tim Lawson Cincinnati, Ohio lawson at clcunix.msj.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 1995 14:59:32 -0500 From: lovelace at pop.nih.gov (Chris Lovelace) Subject: beer fridge questions Hello, all. I've been away from the HBD for a while, but I just got done scanning through the last month's worth of digests. There's been some discussion of beer fridges, but I have a couple of other questions: I've decided to spend the $$ I got for Christmas on a kegging setup (CO2, corny keg, fittings, etc.), and I want to get a small fride and add a tap for dispensing. I've been looking for a used 6 cu. ft. fridge so I can mount a tower tap on the top and have room for two corny kegs inside, but I've been unable to find one (a new one is $300...a tad out of my range). I can, however get a 10 cu. ft. fridge for $50, although I'd need to put the taps on the door instead of the top. Does anyone know of a reason _not_ to use a fridge this size? I just want to be sure before I go out and spend $50. I've sold my roomates on the idea of investing in the taps and fridge so that we could use it for megabrew kegs at parties (I'll get Sankey keg fittings). The only problem is I'm not sure whether a 1/2 or 1/4 bbl keg will fit in a 10 cu. ft. fridge, which is about 24'' wide and 58'' tall. Does anybody have any ideas on the feasablilty of this? private e-mail ok TIA! Chris LOVELACE at POP.NIH.GOV CL1779A at AMERICAN.EDU Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 95 08:36:07 MST From: jeff at neocad.com (Jeff Stampes) Subject: Kegging Lagers Question Is it my imagination, or is this the second time in three months that we've had mail bouncing back from George Fox College on a continuing basis? Anyway, I have recently begun two processes I have never undertaken before: lagering and kegging. I never had an appropriate environment for lagering before, but with a basement that hovers around 40F, I decided it was time! I should add that there is a storage area that runs about 45F as well. I began my lager at 45F for 11 days, and then upon racking to secondary, moved it down to the 40F (Oh...it's a modified version of Papazian's smoked Weiss-Rauchbier). General questions: How long should it stay at 40F prior to kegging? Since it has been staying so cool, I imagine that I should *not* try and naturally condition it in the keg, correct? Would I have to bring it to a warmer temp, or can I just prime it, keg it, stick it back in the basement and wait afew weeks? Would force carbonation be 'better' in some way? TIA for the help! - -- Jeff Stampes -- NeoCAD, Inc. -- Boulder, CO -- jeff at neocad.com -- - -- Ultimate Frisbee...It's not just for dogs anymore. -- - -- Any fool can make bread out of grain...God intended it for beer! -- Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 1995 16:33:00 +0100 From: chc2 at acpub.duke.edu Subject: stuck fermentation Hello all, I got a number of responses about my stuck fermentation so I thought that I would summarize the advice I received and tell you how I resolved my problem. There are four things which might need to be done if your wort doesn't bubble: 1) aerate it again, but this wasn't my problem b/c I agitated, stirred and foamed this batch more than I have any other. 2) make a yeast starter, to ensure that you have a healthy bunch of critters to chew through even the thickest wort. I should have done this but b/c I had already pitched it twice, I didn't really want to pitch it again. 3) measure the SG again just to make sure it didn't ferment on the sly. Sometimes dry yeasts can be almost explosive and if you don't look at it for the first couple of days, fermentation may already be complete. Again, this wasn't my problem. 4) and the overwhelming favorite was raise the fermentation temp (given that it is low to start with). This was the problem. My study is not heated right now and the temp must have been down around 50-55F in there. I moved it into the bedroom, nearer the heater, and with the warmer temps that have rolled in here lately, fermentation started. No foul odors, no overt signs of infection, so hopefully no unwelcome creatures started growing in the interm between cooling and the start of fermentation. I wanted to comment on the whitish film or spots which many people have noticed infecting their beers. I have had a couple of cases of this myself, one particularly bad case was in a Stout, every bottle had a kind of greasy looking cake of white flocculation on top. It tasted rather odd and not being one to give up very easily, I left them under the house for a couple of months until one day, I needed bottles and fetched a box full to pour them out. As I watched the first couple of bottles of dark brown liquid swirl down the sink, I just couldn't resist tasting it again. I was very pleasantly surprised, the odd flavor had mellowed into something quite nice and almost tart. It was an excellent brew, only when I shared it with friends, I made sure that I poured an inche off the top before I served it to them. So, not all infections are bad infections. Cheers, Chuck Chuck Cannon Duke University, Botany Dept. Box 90339 Durham, NC 27708-0339 email: chc2 at acpub.duke.edu w: (919) 684-3715 f: (919) 684-5412 Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 1995 15:37:57 -0700 From: ANTHONY HARWARD <1HARWAAO at UVSC.EDU> Subject: Information on homebrewing I am a student in Utah and I was hoping that you would send me some information on making your own beer. I would really appreciate if you would send me some material. Thanks. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 1995 17:50:01 -0500 (EST) From: Bruce Beckwith <bbeckwit at bih.harvard.edu> Subject: Bottle "crimes" I thought I would throw caution to the wind and respond to the thread about keeping bottles with a deposit. I warn readers that I have no real knowledge of the subject, just a faint memory of a newspaper article and personal observations. I think that the bottle deposit system varies by location. I live in Mass. and I recall seeing a newspaper article that said something like the state keeps all of the money from unredeemed bottles, not the manufacturer or distributor or retailer. I believe that the Mass. bottle return law works only to keep the streets relatively clear of discarded cans and bottles. In the supermarkets there are alum. can, plastic bottle, and glass bottle "recyclers". These crush or chip the container after reading the bar code to confirm it is a deposit bottle. Clearly these bottles are never going back to be refilled! My own guess is that many manufacturers may find it easier and cheaper to just build the cost of the bottle into the price. If they do get returns, all the better (free bottles). I don't ever recall purchasing an obviously reused bottle in Mass, unlike the many Bud (shudder) bottles I remember from campus bars (many moons ago). I seriously wonder whether it would be financially rewarding to have a return system for those wonderful imported ceramic bottles (that would have to be shipped back to Europe empty for refilling!). Suffice it to say that I keep bottles without a second thought. Thats my $0.05. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 95 15:42:56 MST From: jlandrem at atmel.com (John Landreman) Subject: Honey in Brewing In HBD #1626 Scott Bennett said > As far as getting honey taste or flavor, I have brewed two recipes from > Papazian's book with honey in it and was always dissapointed that there > wasn't any honey taste. Maybe it would be better to use it in the same way > as flavoring or aroma hop. I guess you would want to use it only in lightly > hopped beers, though as a novice I could be completely wrong. Scott, I would suggest adding the honey at the end of the boil so as to just pasteurize it. Boiling causes the honey to lose some of its aroma. Pasteurizing is the suggested procedure for maximizing aroma in mead making. Back in July of last year there was a post in the HBD about using honey in beer and it suggested paseurizing the honey in some water and adding it to the fermenter at high kraeusen. So I guess the best way to look at honey in beer is to consider it the same as fruit. Try to make sure it is not contaminated while trying to maintain it's volatile aroma. The post had a number of other suggestions on how to maximize the honey flavor in beer. If you would like me to e-mail you a copy of it let me know. Cheers John Landreman Colorado Springs, Co Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 95 15:27 From: CGPCS07.WING at WING.SAFB.AF.MIL (Linscheid, SSgt James) Subject: Culturing wild yeast Hello, Of all of the sub-topics dealing with the art of homebrew, the culturing of yeast is the most interesting to me. Although I have yet to read some of the better books dedicated to the subject, I have read the FAQ as well as what Papazian and Miller have to say about it in their books. What puzzles me is the lack of positive discussion about wild yeast. Except for Lambics brewed in Belgium, I have only read about the evils of wild yeast. All of the "domestic" varieties of yeast had to have been wild at one time. It seems to me that we may be selling nature short by assuming all of the world's great yeast has been discovered, and that it all lives in Europe. Has anyone ever tried to isolate wild strains of yeast to determine its suitability in brewing? I realize that it would mean wasting a lot of wort, but the prospect of discovering a new yeast seems worth it. I would like to hear what some of you think about this. After all, one of the advantages we have as homebrewers is not being locked into brewing beers from a long-gone "golden age." At the risk of flames, I think we should be pushing the fermentation envelope looking for that perfect brew that may, or may not have been brewed before. James Linscheid Brewer - Beer drinker Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 95 10:32:00 PST From: Paul Baker <bakerp at amhsgwy.jpl.nasa.gov> Subject: Mega gingered holiday ale Dear holiday ale gurus; All of the great tasting holiday ales available last year have inspired me to make my own this year. I choose to make my first holiday ale a traditional one based on a recipe using: (for five gallons) 7 lbs. light DME 1/2 lb. light crystal malt 1/2 lb. chocolate malt 1 lb. orange blossom honey hops (don't have the specifics on hand, about 28 IBUs) BrewTek Belgian Ale #2 from slant (1 qt. starter) For spices I used: 1 oz. fresh grated ginger 6 inches crushed cinnamon stick 1 Tsp. grated orange peel in the last 15 minutes of the boil. Just before bottling I simmered: 1/2 oz. fresh grated ginger 3 inches crushed cinnamon stick 1/2 Tsp. grated orange peel for 5 minutes and then strained the resulting tea though a coffee filter and added it to the bottling bucket. The fermentation went normally and I bottled after two weeks. It has been in the bottle for six weeks now. So here's the problem: the ginger is completely overwhelming. It dominates the flavor profile so much that only a touch of cinnamon can be found. The orange peel is nonexistent and the slightly dry finish that the honey should have added is not there. In fact this holiday ale starts and ends with mega ginger. None of the other spices have a chance of coming though. Hopefully, the ginger will mellow with age, but I am finding it difficult to be optimistic. So, where did I go wrong. Many holiday ales are made with 3 to 5 ounces of ginger. It is difficult to imagine using that much after taking a sip of mine. Paul Baker Telos Corp/ Jet Propulsion Laboratory Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 13 Jan 95 11:17:22 +1100 From: ANDY WALSH <awalsh at ozemail.com.au> Subject: oxygen permeable plastic? Hello. Al wrote: >Dana writes: > - man, only finished my second ferment and this bottling is > for the birds! what's the current concensus on using 2 liter pop > bottles for beer that will be consumed with 1 month of bottling? > Procedures? Caveats? >If they will be consumed withing 1 month, I'd say no problem. Those >bottles are not oxygen-barrier and despite the high pressure of CO2 >inside, O2 will still permiate in oxidizing the alcohols and creating >unpleasant aldehydes. I have heard this before on the digest, along with "plastic fermenters are oxygen-permeable" and even "plastic linings in bottle caps are oxygen permeable". Clearly PET bottles are not CO2 permeable (neither are plastic linings in bottle caps), or you'd get flat soft-drink if you bought an old bottle! I have never heard of this happening. I believe the CO2 molecule is only slightly larger than the O2 molecule, so I have wondered how this thread first started. Is there any *hard* evidence out there to support the O2 permeability of plastic? If there is, kindly post it to the digest, as I am sure I am not the only one who has wondered about this. ***** Tom Ausfield wrote: > If I rack over to a secondary >fermenter, how long can I safely leave it in there to condition? >Should I rack over every couple of weeks or is a month OK? I have left beer in a plastic secondary for 3 months with no noticable bad effects (in fact the beer was wonderful!). I have left beer in a glass carboy for 6 months with no ill-effects. Strong beers in particular (eg. >1070) seem to benefit from this. I certainly would not rack every couple of weeks as you increase the risk of infection, oxidation etc.. So just leave it alone and it will be fine, but preferably in a cool place (eg. 60F). Andy W. (awalsh at ozemail.com.au) PS. How about nuking George Fox College? Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 1995 20:44:01 -0500 From: DONBREW at aol.com Subject: foxmail > >Date: 11 Jan 1995 01:43:07 -0000 >From: Gateway at foxmail.gfc.edu (Gateway) >Subject: NDN: Homebrew Digest #1628 (January 11, 1995) > >Sorry. Your message could not be delivered to: > >Robert Hoover,George Fox College (The name was not found at the remote site. >Check that the name has been entered correctly.) > Wait a Dammed minute!!!! nobody sent me #1628!!!! Is this foxmail thing what is screwing things up? Donbrew at aol.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 1995 22:17:14 -0500 From: JimSomers at aol.com Subject: Mac brewing software In HBD #1628 the table of contents listed Mac brewing software, but I did not see anything in the text about it. Is there Mac brewing software available? Jim Westfield, MA Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1630, 01/13/95