HOMEBREW Digest #1665 Sat 25 February 1995

Digest #1664 Digest #1666

		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor

  hop storage ("Charles S. Jackson")
  Hopping beer (JAH)
  Re: B-Brite (Jim Ancona)
  secondhand bottling equipment needed (Scott_Lutke)
  Brewpubs??? (Schwab_Bryan)
  Yeast vs PSI ? (molloy)
  moosebrew and IBU (SnowMS_at_CNTORSSA)
  Counter flow chiller question (smtplink!guym)
  Beer quality - homebrew vs. commercial ("Richard T. Whitney")
  Extraction Rate Help (Kirk R Fleming)
  Belgian White ("BARRON, GRAHAM LARS")
  Phil's Philler/Siphoning/Yeast Nutrient (Jeff Hewit)
  Playing with Grolsch bottles (Dmitry Kagansky)
  AHA and Norm Pyle (" Patrick G. Babcock")
  Recipe Info... (Guy Mason)
  A few questions ("Keith Royster")
  cheap counter-flow chiller ("Keith Royster")
  IBU's/Gott/Judging $.02 (Mark Ohlstrom)
  Recommendations for a good scale (Dan Wood)
  HSA: a religious war? (Michael Sharp)
  testing a yeast starter (Gary A. Meier)
  Re: Beer line pressure drop (David S. Burlage)
  skimming & dropping ("Babinec, Tony")
  Request for Competion Info (Ken Schroeder)
  dry hopping... (abaucom)
  Club only Mega-brew-a-thon! (Richard B. Webb)
  Modified Malt and Balling (Waldon, Tracy )
  Fifth Annual March Mashfest (Brian J Walter (Brewing Chemist))
  AHA IBUs/B-Brite/Great Western/dropping != racking (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 21 Feb 95 12:49:11 CST From: "Charles S. Jackson" <sjackson at ftmcclln-amedd.army.mil> Subject: hop storage Norm, in response to Fred Waltman, said: > >Bingo! If you are buying your hops from a local homebrew store, I'd ask a >LOT of questions: Who do you buy your hops from? Do you separate them >yourselves into 1 oz. packages? How is this done? Do you use O2 barrier >packaging? Does your supplier? How are they stored? etc. etc. etc. In a year of reading the digest I have not seen a discussion of the proper/best way to store hops. I have taken to using brown jars (ovaltine works nicely), purging w/co2 and freezing. Seemed to be a reasonable alternative to the cost of buying a heat sealer, o2 impermeable bags and some nitrogen. I do know that the last hops I bought were scooped out of a regular plastic bag that was retrieved from the refrigerator and closed with a twist-tie. The store owner told that he had just gotten his hops a few days ago and so I figger'd that there couldn't have been too much decrement yet. Anyway it would be nice to see/hear how other keep their hops. Steve (from Alabama and *NOT* rubbing it in) - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Brewing beer is far more exciting when it is both a hobby AND a felony! The Alabama Outlaw Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 1995 14:42:11 -0500 (EST) From: JAH at cvlab.harvard.edu Subject: Hopping beer Dear HBDers: A friend of mine, without HBD access, recently brewed and kegged a batch of ale using his left-over hops. Apparently, the hops were no good, as the resultant beer has neither hop aroma nor bitterness. Is there any way to hop finished beer and save this batch? Private e-mail is o.k. TIA Justin Haber jah at cvlab.harvard.edu Return to table of contents
Date: 21 Feb 95 15:00:55 EDT From: Jim Ancona <Jim_Ancona.DBS at dbsnotes.dbsoftware.com> Subject: Re: B-Brite In HBD 1663, Patrick G. Babcock (USFMCHQL at IBMMAIL) writes: > -=> Matt K asks about B-Brite... > >In its less costly form, B-Brite is known as Arm & Hammer Super Washing Form. >Sodium Carbonate, for the most part. Not quite. I believe B-Brite is mostly sodium percarbonate, which releases oxygen when dissolved in water. So it sanitizes, as well as cleans. Sodium Carbonate (Washing Soda) is a good cleaner, but not a sanitizer. Jim Ancona janco at dbsoftware.com jpa at iii.net Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 95 15:26 EST From: Scott_Lutke at vos.stratus.com Subject: secondhand bottling equipment needed Hi Group, Does anybody have any knowledge of secondhand bottling line equipment ect... I now do 4 bottles at a time taking 2.5 minutes per case. Im opening a small micro and am interested in increasing my output. If you know of any equipment, you can E-mail me at: Scott_Lutke at vos.stratus.com Thanks, Scott (Massachusetts) Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 95 14:38:00 CST From: Schwab_Bryan at lanmail.ncsc.navy.mil Subject: Brewpubs??? Greetings to one and all!! I am need of some assistance from those of you within the San Jose, Sunnyvale Ca area. Are there any good Brewpubs out there? I'll be within that area the end of this month and I do not want to go thirsty! Thanks! Bryan Schwab_Bryan at lanmail.ncsc.navy.mil}:ddn:navy Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 1995 16:29:40 -0500 From: molloy at tcpcs3.dnet.etn.com Subject: Yeast vs PSI ? Papazian <and I don't quote> tells about yeast serviving temperature changes ok but not pressure or loss of very well. I am wondering about the Wyeast as it has much pressure inside the package at the time it is ready to use. Could their be any ill effect on the the yeast from this? I am also wondering if K. Flemings yeasties exploded due to the change in pressure. I just pitched some Wyeast Sunday that did not go full term in the package and it seemed to perform better than other times when the package was buldging. PS. The yeast went in my Amber ale, thanks for everyones input on Amber. BELL'S RULES Kzoo Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 95 16:38:14 EST From: SnowMS_at_CNTORSSA at CCIP.PERKIN-ELMER.COM Subject: moosebrew and IBU Les Wood asks for info on Moosehead beer. I am going to assume you are asking about their lager since they don't export Ale (IMHO their best product). I would recommend a mash using Harrington( 2-Row) from Canadian Malting(try 70-75%) and the remaining 25-30% Corn(flaked maize). Use German Hops(Low Alpha,noble)for bittering (try for 13-15 IBU) and same for aroma/flavour. For yeast that is a different story, I have used the above with Yeast Lab's Canadian Ale (Labbatt's ?) with excellent results. I would like to comment on hop utilization, I have analyzed approx. one dozen beer for BU's(done by a brewery) and they are quite varied from the expected formula. I believe that it is not possible to have a formula that will work for everyone in all cases. An example if one looks at the second edition of Malting and Brewing Science, Table 9.10 (p288)shows the "effects of "standing" infusion mash...and derived beers". This table shows that the bitterness can vary from 30 to 22(mg/l). The temperatures varied from 57 to 65.5 C. The explanation was "At lower temperatures the alteration in the Lundin fraction showed that proteolysis was more complete. This was also reflected by a higher hop utilization, probably due to the reduced break caused by the presence of lesser quantities of complex nitrogenous substances to bring down the bittering substances". This type of trend is also shown in Table 9.14(p298). The bitterness of the beer varied from 23-24(mg/l for 100% Malt) to 28-30 (mg/l for 50% Malt, 50% adjuncts(Wheat flour, Maize, Rice flakes). Miles in the Maritimes Canada. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 95 14:23:15 MDT From: exabyte!smtplink!guym at uunet.uu.net Subject: Counter flow chiller question I see a general agreement in the Digest that chiller tubing (copper) should be 3/8". My question is, 3/8" i.d. or o.d.? I'm specifically interested in which one is needed for the Phillchill Phittings as I ordered a set of these last week. It says that 25' of 3/8" copper tubing is needed but, again, doesn't specify inner or outer diameter. I was in Home Depot over the weekend with the intention of buying the tubing but they carried both and I passed. My gut tells me I need 3/8" o.d. but I wasn't sure enough to make the purchase. Also, I have a half-barrel converted keg brew kettle I bought from BCI that I would like to put a spigot of some sort on like the Sabco kettle. I know that theirs has a welded nipple but I wondered if one couldn't attach a 1/2" brass ball valve simply using a fiber washer (or no washer) like on the Easymasher. Perhaps the stainless steel is too rigid to allow for a good seal in this fashion? Any input would be appreciated - email is fine. -- Guy McConnell \/ Exabyte Corp. /\ Huntersville, NC \/ guym at exabyte.com (Hey Norm, does "Huntersville" in the sig line count? We DO have Dilworth Brewing Company down the street in Shah-lotte.) Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 95 21:16:00 PST From: "Richard T. Whitney" <pp000171 at interramp.com> Subject: Beer quality - homebrew vs. commercial Several questions for those of you out there with much more homebrewing experience than I. 1) How does the "best" homebrew compare with the the "best" commercial beer? "Best" is difficult to determine, but can any generalizations be made with respect to the beer produced by homebrewers versus commercial brewers, once a reasonably high level of competence is attained? 2) How do the raw materials used by commercial brewers differ from those used by commercial (micro) brewers? I would imagine that the malt is quite similar, the yeast more varied, and have no idea about the hops. 3) Finally, how much of largescale brewing is art vs. engineering, or asked another way, could many other micro breweries produce a copy of, say an Anchor Liberty Ale or a SN Celebration Ale, if it were in their business model to produce such a product? If money was no object, and a brewery wanted to produce a five star beer, using the best ingredients and state of the art equipment, could most brewers pull it off or are there still lots of intangibles left which translate into a disparity of results. Thanks for any insights into these questions. Rich Whitney Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 1995 19:18:22 -0700 From: flemingk at usa.net (Kirk R Fleming) Subject: Extraction Rate Help RE: HBD #1663 >From: jeff at neocad.com (Jeff Stampes) >Subject: Extraction rte help! >I ended up with an OG of 1.047...at LEAST 15 pts lower than I wanted You didn't say how much wort you produced, but from your msg I figured you used a total of about 7.5 gal then boiled for an hour. So, just to get an idea of how 'bad' you did, I used 6 gal as your final yield. That figure, along with a back of the envelope yield rate of 30 pts*gal/lb gave me: (30 pts*gal/lb)*(9 lb/6 gal) = 45 pts If you reduced to 5 gal then computed yield would be 54. In all it looks pretty predictable to me. The figure of 30 pts*gal/lb is just a number I find to be what folks actually GET when they brew this way, and it often provides a good estimate. My point here is: *take good notes*. It just doesn't matter what anyone else gets with their brewing, except as a goal to shoot for. What I *think* you care about is knowing ahead of time what to expect--you can only do that with careful notetaking. There are other factors here as well (many), one of which is your thermometer--for example, we have a digital handheld unit that MAY be off by as much as 4F too high--don't know yet. If you are using one that's off by that much, percent of fermentables in the final product may be a big surprise (in either direction, depending on the thermometer error). Again, it's not yield per se, but repeatability that I think you're after. Wow--I guest that was about $.08 worth. Kirk R Fleming -flemingkr at afmcfafb.fafb.af.mil -BEER: It's not just for breakfast anymore. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 95 21:37:53 EST From: "BARRON, GRAHAM LARS" <GBARRON at MUSIC.CC.UGA.EDU> Subject: Belgian White Dear HBDers, This is my first time using the HBD, and I must give kudos to everyone. This is indeed one of the most helpful resources for homebrewers, especially novices such as myself. Anyway, I'm interested in brewing an extract beer along the lines of Celis White in the near future. I know I could never achieve a beer that complex or good using extracts, but I'd like to give it a try. I have obtained a couple of "Celis-alike" recipes from friends, but I thought I would ask for any suggestions from you veterans out there. There is a Belgian White recipe in the latest issue of ZYMURGY, but it is a mash or partial mash recipe. If anyone has any suggestions about possible extract substitutions in that recipe, I would also be interested. Please e-mail me. Anything helps! Thanks in advance to everybody and keep up the good conversation. Graham L. Barron gbarron at music.cc.uga.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 1995 22:32:15 -0500 From: jhewit at freenet.vcu.edu (Jeff Hewit) Subject: Phil's Philler/Siphoning/Yeast Nutrient PHIL'S PHILLER I just used my new Phil's Philler for the phirst (sorry, I had to do that once) time, and I think it's great. It's made of brass, and fills bottles faster than my plastic filler. I didn't bother with a time trial, but I know it's faster. It's also easy to set the level in the bottle without spilling as much as before. They cost about $14 (won't make the Frugal Brewer FAQ), and are in many homebrew catalogs. SIPHONING There's been a lot of talk lately, here and especially on RCB, about siphoning. There're various methods for filling tubes, and for blowing and sucking. One thing I've thought of, but haven't seen, is flexible bulb that would be somewhere in the tube between the carboy and the bottling bucket, much like the siphoning tubes available at automotive stores. I hesitate to use an item designed for gas on my beer, but I haven't seen one any where else. Has anyone seen such a beast, suitable for transferring beer? If so, where? YEAST NUTRIENT I recently saw an add for yeast nutrient for use in making beer. (I am aware that its use in making mead is standard, although I have not yet made mead.) The add pointed out the positive results of using nutrient, and the quick and healthy ferments one could expect. So far, my ferments have seemed fine, but I guess they could always be better. Anyway, has anyone used yeast nutirent in making beer? As always, TIA for any advice. - -- Jeff Hewit ****************************************************************************** Eat a live toad first thing in the morning and nothing worse will happen to you the rest of the day. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 00:08:42 -0500 (EST) From: Dmitry Kagansky <dkagan1 at tinker.hofstra.edu> Subject: Playing with Grolsch bottles I bottled a stout a week ago, and used 2 party pigs, and 2 grolsch bottles. Now the question: Can I open the grolsch bottles, pour some off to taste, and then re-cap them? Logically (in my mind), it would work, but be a little flat. Opinions? Why? The stout is going to take longer than my regular ales, but I'm impatient, and have never tried this (the re-capping thing). Usually, my beer goes all at once, and the bottles are drained before I can even try this method. But not many of my friends like stouts ('I can't SEE through it!' whining abound), so I want to start drinking as soon as possible. I figured I can use the bottles as 'testers.' Thanks, Dimi DKAGAN1 at TINKER.HOFSTRA.EDU Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 00:21:18 EST From: " Patrick G. Babcock" <usfmchql at ibmmail.com> Subject: AHA and Norm Pyle *** Resending note of 02/21/95 16:40 To: INTERNET--IBMMAIL Internet Addresses * Man's mind, stretched by a new idea, never goes back to its * * original dimension. - Oliver Wendell Holmes * Subject: AHA and Norm Pyle IN HBD 1663... -=> Norm Pyle comments on the 'level' of brewers catered to by the AHA... I think you've got something there, Norm. Rather than deal with the student beginning to challenge the master, the master chooses to ignore. This would be consistent with their autocratic method of management (benevolent dictatorship?) and the pullout from the BJCP; in effect, divorcing themselves from their 'graduate students'. Since they've given themselves a 10% raise, I guess I'll renew only if I get a 10% raise at work this year... -=> Lee Bussy answers 'What can a judge do with his certificate?'... Lee: I have an idea, but I'm holding my tongue... ;-) (Just kidding. I actually DO appreciate what you guys do.) -=> Chris Strickland asks about his frozen starter... I wouldn't use these right out of the freezer. I'd boil them to both reduce their SG and to sanitize them. Otherwise, sounds plausible to me! -=> Andrew Keegan asks about texture on malt mill rollers... In a previous quest to do as you are doing, I was told that the texturing of the rollers helps to graw the grain in between. Cross-hatch patterns were most often cited as best. (I've since given up on it and bout a Malt Mill. Long story...) Brew it! Don't chew it! Patrick G. Babcock USFMCHQL at IBMMAIL (313)33-73657 (V) (313)59-42328 (F) Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 95 9:21:34 EST From: Guy Mason <guy at polo.matrixnet.com> Subject: Recipe Info... Hello HBDer's, Some quick questions from an Internet-challenged friend. Anyone have an extract recipe for Corona? Has anyone tried the Uckleduckfay Oatmeal Stout from TNJOHB? Is it similar to New England Brewing Company's Oatmeal Stout? Private e-mail is fine, if I get enough requests I'll post the results. Thanx ============================================================================ Guy Mason Matrix Software guy at matrixnet.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 09:40:03 EST From: "Keith Royster" <N1EA471 at mro.ehnr.state.nc.us> Subject: A few questions I have a few questions I would like to direct to the collective. (I feel like Loqutious of the Borg when I say that ;-) ) 1) I have the opportunity of getting a soda fountain despensor for fairly cheap. I have never seen the inner workings of one of these things, so I don't know exactly how they work and what equipment is included. My question is, is there any body out there that knows if one of these things would be compatible with a cornelius kegging system (or other type of kegging system) and what other equipment would I need to complete the setup? Also, do you forsee any potential problems. Finally, this is at an auction and I have no idea what the item might be worth new so as to estimate what to offer. I was thinking maybe $50 - $100. 2) I'm toying with the idea of going full-grain (actually, I know I want to, it's just a matter of money). I saw a Gott 5gallon cooler for about $25 yesterday. Right now I'm only doing 5gal batches, but might go to 10gal when I go all-grain. Is a 5gal Gott big enough for mashing/lautering or should I go bigger? 3) On the subject of going all-grain, my local brew supply store has a gas cooker rated at 200,000Btu for $45. This sounds like a fair price, but I haven't shopped around much. Does anyone know of a better deal? Unless you feel it to be of general interest, private e-mail is fine. TIA +------------------------------+-------------------------+ | Keith Royster | NC-DEHNR / Air Qualtiy | | Environmental Engineer (EIT) | 919 North Main St. | | n1ea471 at mro.ehnr.state.nc.us | Mooresville, NC 28115 | +------------------------------+ Voice: (704) 663-1699 | | "I think I ran over my | Fax: (704) 663-6040 | | Dogma with my Karma." | | +------------------------------+-------------------------+ Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 10:25:28 EST From: "Keith Royster" <N1EA471 at mro.ehnr.state.nc.us> Subject: cheap counter-flow chiller Maybe someone has already figured this out, but I haven't seen a post on it lately. I think I have built possibly the cheapest counter flow chiller yet (sounds like a challenge to me ;-| ). Ingredients Quantity Cost each garden hose (25' x 1/2") 2 $3.47 Y-garden hose adapter-plastic 2 $0.97 plastic hose coupling (male) 1 $1.17 plastic hose coupling (female) 1 $1.17 copper tubing (20' x 1/4") 1 $7.20 TOTAL $18.42 First insert the 20' of copper tubing in the 25' garden hose (I used mineral oil as a lubricant) through the male end of the hose, leaving about 6" to 8" sticking out. Feel the hose to find the other end of the copper tubing and cut it, again leaving about 6" to 8" of Cu tube sticking out. Now put the male coupling on this end of the hose (hose should now be male on both ends). Attach the Y-hose adapters to each end, carefully threading the copper tubing out one side of the Y-adapter so as not to crimp the tubing. Seal the gap between the Cu tubing and the adapter with Silicon glue. Coil the whole thing up to your liking, careful not to crimp the tubing inside. Now cut the male end of the _other_ hose off and replace it with the female coupling, making it all female. This hose is the "water in" connector to your chiller. Use the scrap of hose left over from the first hose as the "water out" draining hose. That's all there is to it. You will probably need some other adapters, such as some inexpensive compression fittings, for the ends of the copper tubing, but that might me specific to your setup, so I'll leave the rest to you. Happy Brewing +------------------------------+-------------------------+ | Keith Royster | NC-DEHNR / Air Qualtiy | | Environmental Engineer (EIT) | 919 North Main St. | | n1ea471 at mro.ehnr.state.nc.us | Mooresville, NC 28115 | +------------------------------+ Voice: (704) 663-1699 | | "I think I ran over my | Fax: (704) 663-6040 | | Dogma with my Karma." | | +------------------------------+-------------------------+ Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 07:24:34 -0800 From: Mark Ohlstrom <mohlstr at CATI.CSUFresno.EDU> Subject: IBU's/Gott/Judging $.02 As a new subscriber to the HBD, I have read with interest (and occasional amusement) the topics available to we, the homebrewers. I must enter the fray of IBU discussion with my observations, and more particularly, questions about the process. Currently, I am an all-grain brewer that mashes in a 5 gallon Gott cooler, and I boil in a converted straight-sided keg. I practice infusion, have found a practical grain limit of 13-14 lbs in the tun, and mash-out to an initial volume of 7-8 gallons. Once in the pot, I boil down to 6-7 gallons, and yield 4.5-6 gallons to the fermenter, depending on the amount of trub/hot break. My gravities range from 1.040 to 1.060; I attribute that in part to the sparge volumes and the boil times. None of the texts I've read on calculating IBU's make a point of discussing *initial* boil volumes and how/if this should play into the calculations. Is there any significance to the initial volume? Using some hypotheticals (and please bear with my Excel calcs), if I use the *kettle* volume (6.5) in the Rager formula, 1 oz of 10 % AU, a 60 minute boil with 30% utilization, an O.G. of 1.050, I come up with 34.44 IBU's. If I use my final fermenter volume (5.5), then I get 40.71. Perhaps it is common sense, but none of the texts I have read has made a distinction about the *proper* volume to use. Most of us would be inclined to say *fermenter*, correct? I would argue that the final kettle volume is the right one, since a gallon of unusable wort is still one gallon of wort. Some brewers may not lose a gallon in the process, as I do, but accurate calculations must have accurate measurements. Since I am a late comer to the IBU debate, I presume that the disparaging of Garetz's approach to IBU calculation is with utilization rates, not the formula itself. I say this because the formula in Papazian's book works out pretty darn close to Garetz's if you use the same utilization rates. I would concur that the Garetz formula/utilization understates the IBU's: some of my own brews hit the perceived high-end of the style, supported by the Rager %, yet fall in the midpoint under the Garetz. Naturally then, the high end of the Garetz calculation will make your brew out of style. That said, I recall one writer in the HBD recently to say 20% is tops. Practically speaking, I have determined (for now) to take the average of the two to be consistent. I've not yet explored other IBU formulas/theories, and would appreciate further insight. If anyone would care to send me the text of an alternate formula/utilization schedule, please do so! On efficiency and the Gott cooler: as I stated, my *best* all-grain gravity has been a 1.060 with infusion. Due to my setup, I have resigned to sparge out to as much as 8 gallons to hit the 5-5.5 gallon target. Perhaps the 1.060-ish gravity is all that can be Gott. Lastly, on judging: it is a necessary evil. How can one explain the variations, except for subjectivity? I saw not one but *two* 50's awarded in the Pale Ale category during the AHA regional last year! More than anything, a judges personal preferences play into a score. Can you really expect a judge who doesn't like Pale Ale to be unbiased? How many good brews have fallen due to a certain panel's composition? Now that my opinions are exposed and fair game to all, I trust you will be kind (?) if not persuaded! I brew when you yeast expect it. Mark Ohlstrom (mohlstr at cati.csufresno.edu) ***************************************************** Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 09:45:13 -0600 From: Dan Wood <wood at cig.mot.com> Subject: Recommendations for a good scale In short, I'm looking for a good scale to weigh leaf hops, preferably for under $40. I've started buying hops in bulk from Just Hops (no affiliation, just a delighted customer), and I'm finding it hard to gauge how much of a 1 lb bag to use. Most of the "diet" scales I've seen have granularity of an ounce or less, and their accuracy is questionable. On the other hand, I'm not ready to jump to a triple-beam. Anyone know of a simple balance, good electronic scale, anything in between? TIA Dan Wood wood at cig.mot.com Motorola is not responsible for any statements contained in this post. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 11:10:04 -0400 (EDT) From: WHITE ZOMBIE <LEET_77 at access.ohio.gov> Subject: QUESTION ABOUT HOMEBREWING: HOW MANY DRINKS CAN OYU BREW AT HOME? HOW MUCH DO THE INGREDIENTS COST FOR SOME OF THEM? TIM ANDERSON Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 09:36:03 -0800 From: Michael Sharp <msharp at Synopsys.COM> Subject: HSA: a religious war? Art Steinmetz <asteinm at pipeline.com> writes: > Subject: HSA ignored at Breckenridge > > I was at the Breck brewpub in Breck. the other day (can you say "multiple > feet of fresh powder?") and saw the sparge in progress. The hot wort flows > into an open stainless bucket called a "gran-<something>" and from there is > pumped into the boiler. Much foaming occurs in this bucket. The brewer on > duty said HSA was not a concern, that's just the way the system was > designed and that their Denver location uses a completely closed system. > > This setup looks to be a very efficient HSA *generator*. Can anyone > explain what's going on? Thanks. About a year ago I got a VIP tour of the Anheusier-Busch (sp?) plant as part of the quarterly MBAA (Master Brewers Assoc of America) meeting. They have developed equipment to mix hot air with the hot wort as soon as it leaves the kettle. This is done in an ~3 story tall tower maybe 15' in diameter. In this tank the uncooled wort is dropped from the top (I imagine some kind of large assembly for distributing it evenly over the diameter of the tank) against an upward air flow of something in excess of at least 100F, I believe 160F was the number buut this was a while ago. The bottom of this tower collects the hot wort and channels it to the necessary chilling equipment. This step caught me by supprise so I asked specific questions to make sure I didn't misunderstand. The person answering was a very knowledgable plant foreman with something between 15 and 20 years of experience so this was not the case of a confused tour guide. In the past HSA has been described to me as a bit of a religious issue. There are two obvious sides and you're in one camp or the other. All the data produced by one camp will never convince the other and vice versa. I realize this doesn't really explain to you why anyone would do one thing over another. I'm really not interested in starting a relgious war so I'm going to avoid that all together. However, I think that it is important to point out that there are two equally valid sides to this issue. (aside: you should have seen the look on the foreman's face when he witnessed my giving two tubes of brewery contaminants to someone I was meeting there _after_ we had toured every nook and cranny of the brewery. Well, I reassured him that they where only hop tollerant strains of Pediococcus and Brettanomyces 8-) I was a good meeting. ) --Mike (Lambic digest coordinator) Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 12:55:28 -0600 From: gameier at fmc.com (Gary A. Meier) Subject: testing a yeast starter Keith Royster cited advice from his local supply store regarding how to tell if a yeast starter is active: "They instructed me to take a pinch of sugar (table sugar is fine) and drop it into the starter bottle. If the yeast are active in sufficient quantities, they will attack the sugar agressively, almost consuming it all before it hits the bottom of the bottle. The result will be a column of CO2 bubbles rising quickly to the surface of the wort. It is actually quite amazing to watch!" That sounds like too rapid a response to be attributable to the yeast, and there is an alternative explanation. If the solution is supersaturated in CO2 (as a yeast starter is likely to be after the yeast have digested the available sugars), then adding sugar or any other finely divided solid causes CO2 to bubble out of solution. The solid provides "condensation nuclei", around which the gas bubbles form. Try adding a pinch of sugar or salt or sand to nearly-flat soda or pasteurized commercial beer. You should see a column of CO2 bubbles rising quickly to the surface, even though no yeast are present. The test itself may still be useful, but I think it is telling you that yeast were previously active in the starter. This is a good sign, but it is not quite a guarantee that the yeast are still healthy. ************************************************************************** Gary Meier, Ph.D. Senior Research Computational Chemist FMC Corporation Agricultural Chemical Group phone: (609) 951-3448 Box 8 fax: (609) 951-3835 Princeton, NJ 08543 email: gameier at fmc.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 13:09:36 -0500 From: bq240 at cleveland.Freenet.Edu (David S. Burlage) Subject: Re: Beer line pressure drop Pressure drop per foot of hose is not simply a number that you cann assign to a type of hose. Pressure drop per foot depends strongly upon the flow rate through the hose. At zero flow, there is no pressure drop, and the pressure drop per foot increses as flow rate increases. The type of flow also makes a big diference. In laminar flow, the roughness of the hose is not nearly as important as it is in turbulent flow. See any basic text on fluid dynamics. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 95 12:09:00 cst From: "Babinec, Tony" <tony at spss.com> Subject: skimming & dropping I've enjoyed the recent thread on "dropping," especially various postings by Brian Gowland, Jim Busch, and Jim Cave (Hi, all!). I recommend Graham Wheeler's "CAMRA Homebrewing Guide" and Wheeler and Protz's "Brew Your Own Real Ale at Home" for their insights into the British brewing practice, which is somewhat different than the US one. I'd like to try to put the discussion of dropping into some context. My understanding of this is based on reading the above plus touring a couple British breweries. Brewers in Britain use ale yeasts, some of which are strong top croppers. The process of "skimming" consists of the following: As fermentation takes off, the yeast develop a head, or berm. At ale fermentation temperatures, fermentation can be quite vigorous and the head quite pronounced. A couple days in to the ferment, the head discolors with some brown material. This brown material is, variously, cold and hot break, hop by-products, spent yeast, trub. There are purported deleterious flavors from this material, and purported flavor benefits in the finished beer from removing this material. The brewer would use a spoon to skim the head and remove some of the trub and yeast. The beer nonetheless retains a strong top crop of yeast. The problem with skimming is that one has to intermittently skim the yeast and trub from the beer. To the extent one doesn't, then as fermentation winds down, the head and yeast fall through the beer, mixing all the originally lifted material that hasn't been removed back into the beer. A homebrewer can easily put skimming into practice by conducting open fermentation, as has been well described by Jim Busch. The blowoff method can also be seen as a variant of this method. Rather than skimming, the brewer relies on an active fermentation plus some hosing to blow the trub off of the beer. One other point: The Burton Union system employed for so long by Bass and still to this day by Marston can be seen as a variant of this method. Given the problem with removing yeast and trub from beer, someone had the bright idea to instead remove the beer from the yeast and trub. This is the "dropping" method. Dropping refers to dropping the beer out of a vessel into a vessel below (a vertical arrangement naturally suggests itself). Pre- and post- dropping, the beer is still in primary fermentation. The trub is left behind, while active yeast are carried along with the dropped beer. This evidently is common practice in commercial British brewing. Brian Gowland suggests an ersatz dropping method consisting of racking the beer a couple days into primary fermentation, leaving the stuff on top in the first vessel. I don't know whether deliberate aeration at this point is necessary or desirable. There are so-called "Northern yeasts" that seemingly require splashing and aeration in order to do the job. The sustained mouthfeel and smooth buttery flavor of Samuel Smith's is the result. The Yorkshire Stone square system is the fermentation system used for this type of yeast. I suggest that on the homebrew level we can do a lot of experimentation. Relatively recently, there has been a virtual explosion in the availability of true British yeast. Contact Dan McConnell at Yeast Culture Kit Company and ask him what he has available "behind the scenes." Or, take a look at the Brewers Resource catalog for a half-dozen or so interesting British yeast. Regards, Tony Babinec tony at spss.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 95 10:18:37 PST From: kens at squid.nsc.com (Ken Schroeder) Subject: Request for Competion Info In an attempt to help my brew club, I am gathering information on homebrew competitions to include in our newsletter. I have scanned the various places on the www but not all competitions are posted. It would help if competition organizers could email to me as much info as possible, even if it just a contact name and phone number. As I compile the list I would be glad to send it to any who are interested. Since the club I belong to is in San Francisco (San Andreas Malts), I am keenly interested in west coast competitions. My email address in a change mode as we install a new mail server. You can mail to me at either of these two addresses: kens at lan.nsc.com or kens at squid.nsc.com. Thanks for the help. On another note, I haven't had the time to thank all those who responded to my "cloudy beer problem". (My mother in law was staying at my house :-0). I am going to try some of the sujestions this weekend and will post the results in an effort to help others. Ken Schroeder Sequoia Brewing Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 95 13:18:47 EST From: abaucom at fester.swales.com Subject: dry hopping... Is it OK to dry hop in a corny keg AFTER forced carbonation? I'm worried about hops coming out of the hop bag and clogging the dip tube/valve assembly due to the agitation of forced carbonation. tia, -Andrew - ------ Andrew W. Baucom, abaucom at fester.swales.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 10:26:07 -0800 From: Richard B. Webb <rbw1271 at appenine.ca.boeing.com> Subject: Club only Mega-brew-a-thon! Clear the decks and empty your carboys, there's plans abrewin! My first homebrew club, The Impaling Alers of Kent, WA, has got something special planned for National Homebrewing day the first Saturday in May. I'd heard about the Great Northern Brewer's Homebrewing Club in Alaska and their setting the homebrewing record of 450 gallons made in a single day. I thought that we could give it a try, or at least die in the attempt! At the very least, and if you can, plan on coming to Larry's Brewing supply on May 6 and watching us make batch after batch of homebrew. We'll be doing all grain, all extract, combinations, maybe even a mead or two! What we need is quantity for the record, but quality will be nice too! We've got the 50 gallon pilot brewery that can go a long ways towards filling a lot of carboys. We also need you to bring your empty carboys and fermentation buckets down that day to collect X gallons of chilled wort, suitable for yeast pitching. So here's the deal. You can make your own brew if you're in the club, or buy some of the club wort, or both! This is gonna be great! I can brew twice that day in my own system, and fill up maybe 4 or 5 carboys with those two different batches, and I can help brew in the 50 gallon tank, and claim two or more carboys of wort from that batch. I can fill every fermentation container I have, plus more, if only they are ready (empty) on May 6. Friday night I can have no brew going, and Sunday morning comes, I won't be able to sleep for all of the carboy bubbling going on! Start planning for this now. Plan on having all of your available fermentation containers empty come May. And plan on setting up a lot of yeast starters suitable for pitching on May 6. And bring plenty of coffee, 'cause it's going to be a long day! More info to come... Rich Webb Return to table of contents
Date: Wed Feb 22 13:33:31 1995 From: <TWALDON at fcc.gov> (Waldon, Tracy ) Subject: Modified Malt and Balling Over the weekend I brewed with D-C Pils malt for the first time in over a year, having been using MF Pale Ale most recently. The interesting thing I noticed was that when using the modified Pils I had no problem with balling during the mash-in, but when I switched to the highly modified Pale Ale malt, balling became a serious problem. At the time I thought it was due to the level of modification, but it occured to me this weekend that with the Pale Ale my strike temp was generally about 158 F, but would be in the range of 128 F with the Pils. So, which is it, temp, modification, or both? I imagine someone who uses a single step mash with Pils malt has the answer for me. Would this balling test be a good test for when you buy the occassional generic bag of "malt"? Norm Pyle's response to Jeff Hewit brought up a subject near and dear to all of our hearts: <After you've been brewing for 3 years or so, those ads <get very tiring. How many times do I need to sift <through the same ads for Charlie P slogans and <sayings? After you've seen them 10 or 20 times you <start to wonder if the magazine couldn't fill that <space with something a little more useful. Not that I disagree with you, Norm, but how could we support the globe-trotting staff without all the advertising revenue (Note: no emoticon here)? Which probably gets to the heart of my concerns over the AHA; absolutely no accountability over the funds collected from the "members" of the non-profit org. Not that I plan on entering the great IBU math debate, but Al K. is such a great straight man that I couldn't resist. Many, many unsuspecting homebrewers have bought the book and have brewed with the formulas that Garetz published and they have brewed overhopped beer with them. Overhopped beer? You must be kidding, never had one! :-) Almost forgot... Bruce DeBolt was asking about substituting 1 lb. of Aromatic for an equal quantity of Munich, My experience with both D-C malts is that the Aromatic adds an incredible malty aroma and a strong malt character. I would guess that 1 lb. would probably be too intense, though I once put a pound and a half in an Octoberfest and the judges comments were WOW, w.r.t. the malt character. Since that time I've never used more than 8 ounces (in 5 gal.) and get very strong malt character from that. All I can say is to experiment, but be prepared for an intense malt character. ************************************* Tracy Waldon twaldon at fcc.gov Just another paranoid anarchist on the ISH ************************************* Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 11:35:46 -0700 (MST) From: walter at lamar.ColoState.EDU (Brian J Walter (Brewing Chemist)) Subject: Fifth Annual March Mashfest Second (and last) Request for Entries and Judges For The Fifth Annual March Mashfest An AHA Sanctioned Homebrewed Beer and Mead Competition Run By The Mash Tonuges of Fort Collins, CO Entries Due: 27 February to 10 March 1995 Judging: Friday 17 March and Saturday 18 March 1995 If you would like more info please contact: Brian J Walter 618 Tyler Street Fort Collins, CO 80521-3122 303.493.2586 walter at lamar.colostate.edu Send USMail address for formatted copy of entry packet, or email address for ascii version Return to table of contents
Date: 22 Feb 95 09:22:00 -0600 From: korz at iepubj.att.com (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583) Subject: AHA IBUs/B-Brite/Great Western/dropping != racking Pat writes: >How are the AHA *desired* IBUs determined? They are meant to represent the IBU ranges typically found in commercial beers. Some of them are way off, but they have been getting closer and closer each year. Actually, I'm pretty happy with the 1995 guidelines compared with those terrible 1994 guidelines (check out the "sweet maltiness" in the Dry Stout subcategory). Alts are finally beginning to get into the proper range to represent the *Dusseldorf* Alt they have been pretending to be! There is still much work to be done, but I think that if you compare the 1995 guidelines with, say, the 1990 ones, you would notice BIG differences. So, in fact, getting an accuate formula that estimates the IBUs you get from your system is rather important. *** There were two posts yesterday that said that B-Brite is Sodium Carbonate. I assure you that there's more oxygen there than you think. No, it's Sodium PERcarbonate, which, when added to water, basically makes something similar to Sodium Carbonate in Hydrogen Peroxide. That's why it sanitizes. Sodium Carbonate does not sanitize. *** Mark writes: >klages. However, I have seen Klages refered to as both a pale and a lager >malt. I know that Klages is a barley strain not a malt variety. However, >is it made into both Pale and Lager malts? I have ordered it as both and Great Western may be like Schreier, i.e. they just make one and deliver that when you request either lager or pale ale malt. Schreier calls theirs 2-row Brewer's Malt. *** Sorry, I just deleted the question about whether dropping is the same as racking, so I don't have the posters name. Actually, if you look again at the timing of the transfer, dropping is quite specific. You'll note that, when you make a beer, about a day or two into the fermenation, there is a dirty head that rides up on top of a white foam. The concept of dropping (which, incidentally could be done via racking, it doesn't requite a spigot) is based upon the idea that you remove the beer before this dirty head has a chance to fall back into the beer, so you leave it in the primary. Al. Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1665, 02/25/95