HOMEBREW Digest #1696 Mon 03 April 1995
Digest #1695
Digest #1697
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Propane Cooker (Rob Emenecker)
A-B's Crossroads Wheat (Jason Goldman)
Re: Re:Pre-cooking Ingredients (Spencer.W.Thomas)
Hoptech ("Anton Verhulst")
Indoor Propane Cookers? Yes I Am! (dsanderson)
ftp sites (Rob Emenecker)
Steam Beer with no Steam (Dale Moore)
unmalted adjuncts in extract, etc (Russell Mast)
Red Seal Clone (William Eric Hartnell)
Re: Moravian Barley (Steve Robinson)
Butterfly Brew (Roy Harvey)
Re: Pre-cooking Adjunks (Mark Thompson)
Lambic Culture Offer (Rich Larsen)
another coldbox (Michael Cullen)
Re: oxygen solubility (Steve Zabarnick)
? Brew Caps \ Radical Invert Carboy Idea (molloy)
O(2) Henry (A.J. deLange)
Re: Racking ("Thomas Aylesworth")
RE: Stuck CO2 Regulators (Brian Pickerill)
1-800 catalog numbers (James A Lindberg)
RE: Milwaukee Brew Pubs (Matthew Robert Koster)
Re: Moravian Barley (rdevine)
Re: Racking ("Troy" )
Rcpt: Homebrew Digest #1667 (Fe (NEEVES)
Dry-hops In the Copper (Kirk R Fleming)
Shreier malt/Scottish brewerie (t.olsen)
Moravian Barley/Excess Gypsum (A. J. deLange)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 95 09:10:56 PST
From: Rob Emenecker <robe at cadmus.com>
Subject: Propane Cooker
In HBD 1694 MK writes about a propane cooker...
> was wondering if you can use these things indoors? Is it at all
> harmful? Will my cats be the first to go? Or should I use pigeon
> detecters just to be sure.
If you do use it inside make sure your fire insurance is paid up
and any precious items removed from the house. I used to use stoves
now I live by a propane cooker BUT AT A PRICE! I always cook outside of
the house/garage/basement. There are two main reasons for that...
(1) The propane cookers will suck all of the air out of your house if they
are not getting a good dose of ventilation.
(2) CAN YOU SAY EXTREMELY FLAMMABLE (I.E. DANGEROUS)
(3) BUT... If you have a propensity for using Gas Grills inside your house
by all means go right ahead ;-)
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
: "There are only two things in life that oooooo :
: we can ever be certain of... _oooooooo :
: ...taxes and beer!" /_| oooooo :
: Cheers, // | ooo :
: Rob Emenecker \\_| oo | :
: remenecker at cadmus.com (Rob Emenecker) \_| o| :
: Cadmus Journal Services, Inc. |______| :
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 1995 07:25:50 -0700
From: Jason Goldman <jason at bluestar.cnd.hp.com>
Subject: A-B's Crossroads Wheat
Color me amazed.
Last night I went to a local beer tasting event (for the benefit of the
Humane Society: nothing makes me feel quite as good as drinking beer
for charity;') and had the opportunity to taste a new Anheuser-Busch
product. It was their Crossroads Wheat beer. This beer was purported
to be a hefe-weizen. Remembering Coors' weizen, I was not expecting to
get that "sitting near Marienplatz, sipping on a Schneider Weisse"
feeling;'>. And while the beer wasn't that good, it was surprising how
much better it was than expected. First sign that it's not a normal AB
product: the beer is quite cloudy. Next sign: the beer has flavor!!!!
Okay, they get major points for: 1) having a clue about the traditional
beer style and 2) being willing to step outside their regular target
market's taste buds. The clove character was nice and there was a hint
of ester. Downsides: the beer needed a little more sweetness and body
and it needed to have an improved finish because there was almost no
aftertaste.
Bottom line, the Crossroads wheat was closer to style than the Sam Adams
(tm) Cream Stout (tm?) that was also present.
Jason
jason at bluestar.cnd.hp.com
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Date: Fri, 31 Mar 95 10:01:36 EST
From: Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu
Subject: Re: Re:Pre-cooking Ingredients
FWIW, I have used made several Wit beers using raw wheat. Once I
boiled it. The other times, I didn't. Boiling the wheat didn't seem
to make a bit of difference in the extraction, etc. Thus, I conclude
that it is NOT necessary to boil raw wheat for a Wit beer.
=Spencer Thomas in Ann Arbor, MI
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Date: Fri, 31 Mar 95 10:10:49 -0500
From: "Anton Verhulst" <verhulst at zk3.dec.com>
Subject: Hoptech
Jay Richards asks:
> I recently received an order from HOPTECH which had a number of
> problems and was wondering if any one else has had problems......
I have ordered from Hoptech 4 or 5 times and have had only one minor problem.
I ordered Cascade and received Centenial (the next item on the price list). I
called Hoptech, they told me to keep the Centenial and they would send
the Cascade free of charge. Pretty good service, IMHO.
- --Tony Verhulst
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Date: Fri, 31 Mar 95 10:15:07 EST
From: dsanderson at msgate.CV.COM
Subject: Indoor Propane Cookers? Yes I Am!
Matthew Koster asks about the use of Propane Cookers Indoors...
I've been brewing all-grain and boiling the wort in a 15 gal Keg on a
propane cooker in my downstairs bathroom. Actually I've taken it over
completely and put a sign on the door "West Biochemistry Lab".
It's perfect; window for ventilation, sink and faucet for water and wort
chiller, shower stall for wash down, and a place to sit down with plenty
of reading material.
Regarding any concern about CO, there's plenty of ventilation and if you
think about it, it's no different than the billions of gas ranges in use
all over the world today.
Take my advice and take convert your second bathroom into something more
useful: a Homebrew Biochemistry Lab.
Dave
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Date: Fri, 31 Mar 95 10:22:11 PST
From: Rob Emenecker <robe at cadmus.com>
Subject: ftp sites
Does anyone know of a source listing FTP sites relating to beer, homebrewing,
zymurgy, etc. Please let me know. Thanks!
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
: "There are only two things in life that oooooo :
: we can ever be certain of... _oooooooo :
: ...taxes and beer!" /_| oooooo :
: Cheers, // | ooo :
: Rob Emenecker \\_| oo | :
: remenecker at cadmus.com (Rob Emenecker) \_| o| :
: Cadmus Journal Services, Inc. |______| :
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 95 09:42:42 CST
From: dmoore at adc.com (Dale Moore)
Subject: Steam Beer with no Steam
Hello Everyone,
I recently brewed up a "steam" beer using Wyeast California Lager yeast.
Everything went normal, primary for 1 week and secondary for 2 weeks then
bottled with 1 cup corn sugar (for a little more steam). It's been in the
bottles for 3 weeks now and there is absolutly no carbonation. Has anyone
experienced this in the past with this yeast? Did I let it set in the
secondary too long? I had another beer using the London ESB that took 2
weeks to carbonate but this batch is really bugging me because it tasted
very good during bottling, but now seems to be developing some off flavors.
Any hints or ideas would be helpful. By the way, it has been at around 65
degrees during the 3 weeks.
Thanks
Dale Moore
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Date: Fri, 31 Mar 95 10:00:19 CST
From: Russell Mast <rmast at fnbc.com>
Subject: unmalted adjuncts in extract, etc
Someone asks :
> (1) What's the best way to use oats or unmalted wheat
> in an extract beer? Can whole or cracked wheat be steeped
> like other adjunct grains?
You could try, but I doubt you'll get good results. To use
unmalted adjuncts with extract, you should do a partial mash.
However, to do justice to a very high adjunct beer like a Wit,
you're really not left with much option for a partial mash.
> (2) Is there any consensus at all about when to add
> coriander seed?
I use cilantro, the leaves of the same plant. Very different
flavor when fresh, but eventually takes on a very smooth
coriander flavor. I boil water, turn off the heat, toss in
a 'bunch' of cilantro, let it steep for a couple minutes, and
then pour the stuff through a strainer into the secondary.
Next time I'll try it in the primary.
Someone else asks :
> I am fairly new to homebrewing - and I'm on my third extract
> based batch right now. Previously I have ignored info on brewing
> beer from grains, but after seeing the prices of grain ($5/50lbs
> of barley...), the idea is becoming appealing :)
Well, if you think you're time is worth less than $1.25 an hour,
it's worth it. Seriously, the only reason I brew all-grain is the
taste and variety. If I could get similar results for twice the
price from extract, I'd do it.
> 2) What other grains can be malted from raw grain, and what are the
> proceedures?
I've seen malted rye for sale in a mailorder catalog, I think St. Pats.
If you can malt anything, you can probably malt that new "acnient Egyptian"
variety of wheat that's so popular in health food stores these days.
I think it's called "Kef".
> 3) What kind of relationship is there between raw grain, and dry
> weight malt extract produced? I've read 75%, but I'm not sure
Well, it depends on your techniques. I think my first few extract
batches were in the 40% range, and I'm probably up in the 60's now,
but I'd have to get out a calculator to figure it out.
> The idea of malting my own grain looks possible this Summer, since I
> live in nearly a desert area. We have a deck which gets HOT during the
> Summer, and a kiddie wading pool would be nice to dry the malt in :)
> I live west of Pueblo, CO BTW.
Well, if you start malting bizzare grains, and get a liscence to sell
them, you could probably make a little cash on the side.
Someone else:
> I inadvertantly added 2 'oz.' of gypsum instead of 2 'tsp.' I
> cringed at the thought of what monstrosity might be sitting in that bucket!
> Anyway, assuming I have fairly soft water, can someone tell me what I can
> expect from my finished beer (basically, should I throw it away now and start
> over)?
First, never throw beer out unti you're positive it's awful and will stay that
way. Wait a year.
Second, I've mashed with ridiculous quantities of gypsum in the past, with no
terrible effects. (One I recall was a bit high in tannins, but that was
probably due to overly hot strike water.)
Gypsum is not very soluble, so adding extra before boiling is like adding
lots of tiny stones, they just sit there. Also, gypsum is a buffer, so
having more doesn't have great effects on the pH. I don't know too much about
the other chemical effects. I wouldn't say you should do that every time you
brew, and you might have a beer that's less good than it otherwise would be,
but you certainly won't have 5 gallons of swill unless there's something
else wrong with it.
some aol'er :
> Please cancel me.
> Cancel.
Should we tell him how to unsubscribe or just let him flounder?
And is putting some copper in the mash going to be the next coriander?
Will we all get heavy metal poisoning?
> foot-pounds... the unit should be pound-feet
I think that x foot-pounds = 1/x pound-feet. Either that or
x(fp) = x(pf). Either way, it's a pretty simple conversion.
-R
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Date: Fri, 31 Mar 1995 08:13:19 -0800 (PST)
From: William Eric Hartnell <whartnel at farad.elee.calpoly.edu>
Subject: Red Seal Clone
I was wondering if anyone had a recipe for North Coast Brewing Company's
Red Seal Ale, preferrably, or any other highly hopped red ales?
Thanks,
Eric Hartnell
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Date: Fri, 31 Mar 95 11:27:01 EST
From: Steve Robinson <Steve.Robinson at analog.com>
Subject: Re: Moravian Barley
Ed Quier asks:
> Moravian Barley, Grows at altitude, so it malts up better, so the new Coors
> ad on TV states via one non-yuppie type. Anybody ever heard of Moravian
> Barley other than the Coors ad? Not that I want to make a Coors clone, just
> curious.
I'm doing this from memory (a dangerous thing), but George Fix talks quite
extensively about this barley strain in his excellent monograph on Vienna
lager. It seems that the particular qualities of Moravian barley were
responsible for the characteristics and quality of Dreher's efforts at lager
brewing in nineteenth century Austria. He also mentions that there is a
variety of this strain (called Moravian III or something like that) grown in
the US, but that it is controlled and exclusively used by Coors.
Regards,
Steve Robinson steve.robinson at analog.com
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Date: Fri, 31 Mar 1995 08:59:04 -0800
From: roy at harvey.com (Roy Harvey)
Subject: Butterfly Brew
A new recipe? Or perhaps yet another use for all those "failed ales"...
As seen in COUNTRY LIVING magazine:
"You may also want to offer a butterfly bait or feed until your
garden begins to flower. Butterfly expert Joan Heitzman suggested
mixing brown sugar or molasses with overripe bananas or other
fermenting fruit and allowing the concoction to mellow for a few
days. Then add a can of beer and put the mixture out in shallow
bowls in the garden."
Anyone want to venture OG and FG? ;-)
Roy Harvey
roy at harvey.com
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Date: Fri, 31 Mar 1995 09:09:17 -0800
From: Mark Thompson <markt at hptal04.cup.hp.com>
Subject: Re: Pre-cooking Adjunks
ALK wrote:
>When using cereal adjuncts, they must be pre-cooked to liberate the starch for
>the enzymes in the mash.
Not always. The original poster mentioned flaked wheat which is partialy
gelatianized mechanically. I have also heard mention that wheat gelatianizes
at around the same temp as barley. If you are using flaked maze, Oats (quick
or regular) you don't need to pre-cook either.
>
>Add the equivalent of 10% by weight crushed BARLEY MALT to yourcereal pot,
>preferably a 6-row or high diastatic power 2-row pale malt.
I did this on the last adjunct brew i did and it really helped.
>On its way to a boil, the cereal will be partially gelatinized
>and solubilized. This will help keep the porridge from becoming a
>gooey viscous mass.
and also keeps it from sputtering and burning your hands.
>Cook until done. The cereal should be soft and mealy, not hard or
>grainy. Maybe 10 minutes. Be careful not to scorch it.
This is what I have found in cooking times.
Rice - 30m boiling (helps to do it the night before and let it stand).
Corn Meal - 1h boiling (use flaked maze and avoid hassles with this stuff).
Flaked Red Wheat - none, good yeilds.
>You usually are
>concerned only with the starch fraction and not the protein of
>the adjunct.
Unless you are making belgium styles with wheat. See the Zymurgy article
on Belgium Styles for one persons take on dealing with wheat.
The main point is protein rest but not too much to assure cloudyness.
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 1995 11:32:00 -0600 (CST)
From: Rich Larsen <rlarsen at free.org>
Subject: Lambic Culture Offer
Hi all,
Just was looking through the latest mailing from Sam Adams and
came across an intersting article on brewing Lambic beer.
For those of you that don't know what a Lambic is, it is a
spontainiously(sp?) fermented ale. That means that the beer is
naturually fermented without the aid of any added yeasts. (Allthough
I'll bet some breweries do add some cultured natural occuring
yeast. ) Anyway, the wort is prepared and then allowed to cool in
large flat cooling trays in a room with the windows open. This
allows the wild yeasts and bacteria to blow in from the outside and
innoculate the wort. The only place in the world where the proper
microflora exsist is Belgium, so "Don't try this at home" :-)
The resulting brew is extremly complex, tart, fruity.... generally
speaking quite wonderful and distinctive. Sometimes fruit is added
to make a special beer. Examples of these beers are St. Louis Gueze
(I know I spelled that wrong) Lindemans, Timmermans, and Boon.
Anyway, one of the challenges of the home brewer has been to try
to duplicate this difficult style. You have to have the right
proportions of wild beasties to create the balance in the flavor.
Well is seems that it has been done by Boston Beer Co, of Sam Adams
fame. It appears that they received so many complaints from
homebrewers and beer enthusiasts about the "slaughter" of the lambic
appelation with their Cranberry Lambic, that they decieded to make
good and actually create a proper example. I quote..."With the
cooperation of Lindemans and Boon Brewerie, we were allowed to take dust
samples from the rafters and window sills from the cooling room. After
several attempts to culture from the samples we managed to isolate
nearly 200 different varities of wild yeast and bacteria. These
cultures did not however, create a beer as authentic as those
actually brewed in Belgium. Only when we hit upon the idea that
the proper organizims would be located only in the air, did we
manage to hit the style on the head. By carefully obtaining a sealed
case of Framboise from the brewery and transporting it to our brewey,
then forcing sterilized air though a hole in the box and bubbling it
through a starter wort, we captured the elusive bug. We then washed
and rinsed each bottle with the wort and allowed it to drain into
the culture.
After isolating the rare bacteria, we discovered it was previously
unknown to brewing science. Aptly dubbed, TRADEMARKED and PATENTED
as "Pediococcus kochus" after Jim Koch the discoverer. In keeping with
last years promotion of the "rare" hop sales to homebrewers, we will be
providing cultures to interested parties for a nominal fee and written
agreement that the culture is not to be propigated and distributed."
Advice from the article also stated that is is extremly easy to
duplicate the style with the use of this culture. All the homebrewer
has to do is brew a 20% wheat light ale and pitch a starter from this
culture. Ferment at around 70F for about three weeks. Also it states
that for a higher success rate the beer should be brewed only once a
year on April fools day. ;-0
=> Rich (rlarsen at squeaky.free.org)
________________________________________________________________________
Rich Larsen, Midlothian, IL * Also on HomeBrew University (708) 705-7263
"Spice is the variety of life."
________________________________________________________________________
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Date: Fri, 31 Mar 1995 10:13:12 -0800 (PST)
From: mcullen at netcom.com (Michael Cullen)
Subject: another coldbox
Hello all,
After reading John Palmers discription of his cold box and others, I
figured I'd put in my .02.
Before I had a beer fidge (or room for one) I made a cold box to
make my so-called lagers. I took a 4'x8' sheet of plywood and split
it lengthwise and cut it to make four 2'x3' sheets and two 2'x2'.
The 2'x3' will make the walls and the 2'x2' will be the top
and floor. I insulated the box and used an old oven rack/BBQ rack as a
shelf. This shelf is high enough to accomodate the carboy and airlock,
and low enough to hold the ice.
To keep this thing cold I scavenged three 1 gal. water bottles from the
nieghbors trash/recycle bin, and arotated through the frozen bottles each
day before work. With 3 bottles, I was able to make sure a completely
frozen block was used, and as it melted - no mess.
It worked ok. People from So. Calif. should now equate the strange heat
waves occuring in Dec-Feb with my attemps at lagers.
-on a another note, I was attempting to bottle a lager from my keg using
the old tubing/stopper on the tap method, which I've used succesfully
in the past, but this time I forgot the keg presure was 20+lbs
from conditioning (D'oooh). As the presure in the bottle equalized, the
hose detached from the tube. The beer, sensing the sudden change in presure
between the inside of the bottle and outside, promptly left the bottle in
a gyser splatering off the ceiling and back onto the fridge, floor,
table, and myself. Well, I know how to fix this, so I clamped the
hose to the tube and tried again. This time the hose connected to
the tap outlet came off, again with very similar effects. Another hose
clamp and lowering of the pressure in the keg seemed to do the
trick. A rag and a mop and a silent prayer of thanks that I was in the
garage, and I was ready to bribe my welder.
mike
long beach CA
Oh yeah, am I correct in hearing our very own brewer and metallurgist
John P. is now also a fledgling writer...
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Date: Fri, 31 Mar 1995 13:43:35 -0500
From: steve at snake.appl.wpafb.af.mil (Steve Zabarnick)
Subject: Re: oxygen solubility
In HBD #1694 Al Korzonas writes:
>I'm no expert on this, but faintly recall something which might spark
>an expert's memory: Nitrogen is used by some industrial brewers to
>scrub DMS and other undesirables out of wort. Recall in Dave's post,
>he said:
>>Of more importance is that there is no reason that air can't be used to
>>reach saturation if the gas is sufficiently soluble - this level of
>>saturation (40.89 ppm) doesn't care how you get there.
>Ahhh, but if the nitrogen scrubs out other dissolved gasses, wouldn't it
>also scrub out dissolved oxygen, no? Could this be the reason for the
>solubility of oxygen from air being different from the solubility of
>oxygen from pure O2?
It all goes back to Henry's Law. At equilibrium, the concentration of a
dissolved gas is proportional to the partial pressure of the gas above the
liquid. According to the original post, Anheuser-Busch circulates nitrogen
gas through a beer (or was it wort?) spray. Thus they create a condition
where the partial pressure around the beer is almost 100% nitrogen; the DMS
that is in the beer now "sees" a DMS depleted environment in the gas phase
and "corrects" this concentration gradient by diffusing into the gas phase.
Given enough time, all of the DMS can be removed; the rate of this process
is increased by the spray of beer.
Once again, the oxygen content of wort is proportional to the partial
pressure of oxygen; as air contains 20.9% oxygen, the oxygen content of air
saturated wort is about one fifth the oxygen content of oxygen saturated
wort (8.5 vs
40.9 ppm for the case of water).
Steve
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Date: Fri, 31 Mar 1995 13:44:09 -0500
From: molloy at tcpcs3.dnet.etn.com
Subject: ? Brew Caps \ Radical Invert Carboy Idea
I would like to know more about brew caps and how they are used. My guess
is that they are just a spicket that attaches firmly to a carboy, if this
is true follow my next thaught.
I checked at a glass shop about having a 3/4 hole drilled in the bottom of
a 5 gal. carboy, yes it can be done (carboy may shatter) not unlike my
last one that dropped in the kitchen (empty thank god) what a mess.
What I want to do, is plug the hole with a positive seal boat plug, and set
the carboy on a board with the plug suspended in a cut out. When the
wort is strained and funneled in, pitch the yeast, and install the brew cap.
Then invert the carboy, remove the plug, purge with Co2, and install a blow
off.
When the kraeusen drops, install a rubber stopper and splash the beer to
rinse the bottom, then install an air lock. At this point I should be able to
remove all the sediment and trube through the brew cap during the fermentation.
(This gets better) At bottling time the priming can be added through the
bottom of the carboy and you can bottle through the brew cap.
The beauty of all this is, *** you never have to rack the beer ***
not even to bottle! Throw the bucket away! No more turkey baster to
check gravity!
Could you maybe even, prime, install the boat plug, and cask condition
in the carboy?
CONSTRUCTIVE criticism please.
Phil Molloy Kalamazoo MI
I wish my tax money would get here so I can brew again.
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Date: Fri, 31 Mar 1995 14:07:49 +0500
From: ajdel at interramp.com (A.J. deLange)
Subject: O(2) Henry
dharsh at alpha.che.uc.edu (Dr. David C. Harsh) is under the impression that
Henry's Law is not applicable to the problem of solutions of oxygen at atmos-
pheric temperatures and pressures. Nonetheless a value for the Henry's Law
constant for oxygen in water at 25C is published ( Atkins, P.W. "Physical
Chemistry"; Freeman, San Francisco 1978 p214). Furthermore, in The Chemical
Engineer's Handbook (McGraw Hill) we find the statement "For many gases
Henry's Law holds quite well when the partial pressure of the solute
gas is les than one atmosphere." (p14-3 "Gas Absorbtion") This is illustrated
with an example in which the solubility of hydrogen at 200 mmHg in water at
20C is calculated.
The value given in the first reference for oxygen is 3.30E7 mmHg (for hydrogen
it is 5.34E7 i.e. hydrogen is about 2/3 as soluble as oxygen). With
a partial pressure of oxygen in the atmosphere of 159 mmHg the mole fraction
for dissolved oxygen is 159/5.34E7 = 4.82E-6. As such a dilute solution
is virtually all water the concentration of oxygen per litre is
(4.82E6)(1000/18) = 2.68E-4 mole/litre. At 32 grams per mole this amounts
to 2.68E-4*32 = 8.56E-3 grams/litre i.e 8.56 milligrams per litre. Does
that look familiar?
What this means (and I do sometimes fear we are losing sight of the forrest for
the trees) is that as long as a water solution is in contact with
atmospheric air
its dissolved oxygen content will come to equilibrium at about 8.5 mg/l (for
water and somewhat less for wort as discussed in previous posts).
Bottled oxygen users are also subject to this limitation if the wort surface
is in contact with atmospheric air i.e. oxygen will escape to the air to
equalize the partial pressures of oxygen on both sides of the liquid/air
interface. This can be circumvented by trapping the oxygen
at the surface as it bubbles up (e.g. sealing a unitank) so that the partial
pressure in the gas above the wort is higher than 159 mm but there is little
reason to want to do this as 8.5 mg/l is about as much oxygen as one wants in
his wort anyway.
In summary the advantage of bottled oxygen is not in that it permits
higher levels of dissolved oxygen to be acheived but in that it is
sterile (pure oxygen is quite toxic to living organisms) so that it does
not need to be filtered and already under pressure so that it does not
need to be pumped. It is quite safe to handle and store, readily obtainable
and not terribly expensive.
AJ
ajdel at interramp.com
A.J. deLange
ajdel at interramp.com
A.J._deLange at csgi.com
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Date: Fri, 31 Mar 95 14:19:26 -0500
From: "Thomas Aylesworth" <t_aylesworth at lfs.loral.com>
Subject: Re: Racking
Rob Emenecker asks about my advice that a secondary is not necessary
for ales:
> For the collective intelligence out there (G), is there any benefit to
> racking into a secondary (my primary is a 5-gal carboy) if I am not dry
> hopping? Would my brew benefit from additional conditioning in a
> secondary? My current batch is happily bubbling away after 5 days of
> active fermentation. Or, should I just take the blow-off off and pop a
> regular airlock onto the primary?
I have heard a few reasons given for using a secondary, and I'm sure
more experienced brewers around here can give more. First, many people
like to remove the fermenting beer from break material and hop sludge (if
pellets were used) as soon as possible, claiming that prolonged exposure
can lead to off-flavors. Second, it is well-known that yeast, after it
has consumed available nutrients, will start to autolyze, which adds a
rubbery aroma/flavor to fermenting beer. So, removing the fermenting beer
from a thick layer of yeast sludge as early as possible is definitely a
good idea. Third, I know some brewers like to cold condition their beers
for a couple weeks or so in a secondary before bottling. I believe the
reasons for this are to allow more yeast to settle out and to force
proteins that cause chill-haze to settle out before bottling -- leading
to a clearer, cleaner tasting beer.
The above is all based on brewing literature and the advice of brewing
friends far more experienced than I. As for my personal experience, and
the basis for my previous advice, I started brewing extract beers in
college about five years ago. At the time, I had a copy of Miller and
a copy of Papazian and was far more impressed with Miller's precision
and scientific attitude than Papazian's rdwhahb advice. So, I listed to
everything Miller said. Miller recommended using a secondary, so when I
bought my original brewing kit, I also bought a 5 gallon carboy for doing
secondaries. I religiously racked all my ales to a secondary. A little
more than a year ago, I discovered the HBD which reignited my interest in
this hobby and made me start experimenting more. I decided to go to the
absolute basics to see how different procedures and ingredients affected
my beers in my environment. So, in order to keep it as simple as possible,
I took a step "backward" and stopped racking to the secondary. I noticed
no change in the flavor or clarity of my extract beers. Over the past
year, I have made the change from extract to partial mash and, just under
3 months ago, to all-grain. Both of these steps made incredible
improvements in the flavor of my beers. I also switched from dry yeast
to liquid yeast, which I also believe improved my beers. My previous
post was intended to suggest that I think neophyte brewers should keep
it simple at first and experiment with how changes affect their beers.
I believe strongly that there are many areas where neophyte brewers can
make changes that affect the flavor of their beers more than going to a
secondary.
As for reasons why I don't notice much difference between using a
secondary and not using one? Well, I now do full boils and use a wort
chiller so I rack the wort off of the break material and hop sludge
when moving it to the fermenter, which takes care of the first point
above. However, even when I did extract brews and left the fermenting
beer on the break material, I didn't notice any significant off-flavors
I would attribute to this. This could be just because I was not as
experienced a brewer/beer taster. YMMV. As for autolysis, my only
experience with this has been to do an experiment recommended by Miller
where I purposefully left a large amount of yeast in a gallon jar at
room temperature in order to be able to recognize the smell. It is
definitely not something I would want in my beer!!! However, I have had
no problems in practice with this, even when I've left my beer in a
primary for 3-4 weeks. Since I have friends who have had problems with
autolysis in less time, I can say that this is not everyone's experience.
One slight advantage I might have is that I ferment my ales in my
basement which stays right around 60F year round. Higher temperatures
speed up autolysis. Again, YMMV. As for cold conditioning my ales, I'm
really not set up to do that (I can't lager either), but it is something
I would like to experiment with. I don't think beginning brewers should
bother, however.
In summary, I think beginning ale brewers should keep it simple. Don't
bother with a secondary until you've mastered/improved other techniques,
unless you have problems (like autolysis) that you know would go away
if you racked.
BTW -- did anyone else feel like they were reading the HBD when they
saw the newest Brewing Techniques? :-) Good job to those HBD regulars
who had articles in BT this month. Jim Busch -- if you are looking for
ideas for your column, I, for one, would be very interested in seeing
an article that takes up where your Malt FAQ stops. A detailed article
on available malts and grains, recommended mashing techniques for each,
etc. would be excellent, IMO.
- -------------------------------------------------------------------
Thomas Aylesworth | t_aylesworth at lfs.loral.com
Space Processor Software Engineering |
Loral Federal Systems, Manassas, VA | (703) 367-6171
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Date: Fri, 31 Mar 1995 14:31:18 -0600
From: 00bkpickeril at bsuvc.bsu.edu (Brian Pickerill)
Subject: RE: Stuck CO2 Regulators
Thanks to Lee C. Bussy, Jeff Kulick, and Kel Landrith, I now know that
my stuck regulator should be repaired at a welding supply store.
That's news to me, so I thought I'd post a summary. Also, the
consensus here is that any modifications could be very dangerous
if not done correctly, so it's definitely best left to a professional.
Now if I can find a repairman here to do this for a 6 pak of hb... ;-)
- --Brian Pickerill <00bkpickeril at bsuvc.bsu.edu> Muncie, IN
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Date: Fri, 31 Mar 95 13:44:43 CST
From: jal at ted.cray.com (James A Lindberg)
Subject: 1-800 catalog numbers
1-800 AND INTERNET BREW NUMBERS FOR HOMEBREW CATALOGS
Beverage People CA 800-544-1867
Big Basin Brewing CA 800-509-2739
Brewers Resource CA 800-827-3983
Brimhall Brew Barn CA 800-414-2739
Culver City Home Brewing CA cchbs at ix.netcom.com
Fun Fermentations CA 800-950-9463
Great Fermentations CA 800-542-2520
GFSR CA 800-544-1867
HopTech CA 800-379-4677
South Bay Homebrew Supply CA 800-608-2739 74557.1102 at compuserve.com
Williams Brewing CA 800-759-6025
Yeasty Brew Unlimited CA 800-928-2739
Highlander CO 800-388-3923
Rocky Mountain HOMEBREW CO sabbe at zymurgy.stortek.com
Maltose Express CT 800-625-8673
Barley & Hops Trading FL 800-810-4677
Best Brew FL 800-780-2739
Hearts Homebrew Supply FL 800-392-8322
Sebastion Brewers Sply FL 800-780-7837
Brew Your Own Beverages GA 800-477-2962
Brewtopia GA 800-540-6258
The Whistle Pig GA 800-947-5744
S.P.S. Beer Stuff IA spsbeer at ins.infonet.net
The Brewer's Coop IL 800-451-6348
Alternative Garden Supply IL 800-444-2837
Heartland Hydr & HB IL 800-354-4769
Home Brewing Emporium IL 800-455-2739 73427.1241 at compuserve.com
Beer & Wine Hobby MA 800-523-5423
The Modern Brewer MA 800-736-3253
Stella Brew MA 800-248-6823
The Vineyard MA 800-626-2371
Brew Masters MD 800-466-9557
Brew N Kettle MD 800-809-3003
Gus's Discount Warehouse MI 800-475-9688
The Yeast Culture Kit Co MI 800-742-2110
Brew and Grow MN 800-230-8191
Pine Cheese Mart MN 800-596-2739
James Page Brewery MN 800-347-4042
Northern Brewer MN 800-681-2739 http://www.winternet.com/~nbrewer/
Semplex MN 800-488-5444 jiminmpls at aol.com
Wind River Brewing MN 800-266-4677
The Home Brewery MO 800-321-2739
Alternative Beverage NC 800-365-2739
BrewBetter Supply NC Brewbetter at aol.com
Olde Fangled Fermment. NH 800-379-6258
Stout Billy's NH 800-392-4792
The Brewmeister NJ 800-322-3020
Red Bank Brewing Supply NJ 800-779-7507
Coyote Home Brewing Suply NM 800-779-2739
Mr. Radz Homebrew Supply NV gustav at enet.net
Brew By You NY 800-986-2739
Brewers Den NY 800-449-2739
The Brewery NY 800-762-2560
East Coast Brewing Supply NY http://virtumall.com/EastCoastBrewing/ECBMain.html
Great Lakes Brew Supply NY 800-859-4527
Hennessey Homebrew NY 800-462-7397
The Hoppy Troll NY 800-735-2739
KEDCO NY 800-654-9988
New York Homebrew NY 800-966-2739
US Brewing Supply NY 800-383-9303
The Grape & Granary OH 800-695-9870
Brew Ha Ha PA 800-243-2620
Beer Unlimited PA 800-515-0666
Bet-Mar SC 800-822-7713
U-Brew SC 800-845-4441
BrewHaus TN 800-638-2437
DeFalco's TX 800-216-2739
Homebrew Sup. of Dallas TX 800-270-5922
St. Patrick's of Texas TX stpats at wixer.bga.com
Scientific Service TX 800-894-9507
Beer Boy Enterprises VA 800-454-7401 (5786 after the beep)
The Brewer's Club VA 800-827-3948
HomeBrew International VA 800-447-4883
Something's Brewing VA tayers at aol.com
The Cellar WA 800-342-1871
Evergreen Brewing Sup. WA 800-789-2739
The Homebrew Store WA 800-827-2739
Jim's Homebrew WA 800-326-7769
Liberty Malt Supply WA 800-990-6258
Belle City WI 800-236-6258
Market Basket WI 800-824-5562
North Brewing Supply WI 800-483-7238
The Brew Place WI 800-847-6721
The Malt Shop WI 800-235-0026
BrewCrafters 800-468-9678 catalog at brewcrafters.com
BrewShack 800-646-2739
H.B. Discount Warehouse 800-491-6615 (just malt extract)
U.S. Brewing Supply 800-728-2337
Your Keg Company 800-968-0534
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Date: Fri, 31 Mar 1995 14:32:34 -0600 (CST)
From: Matthew Robert Koster <matthewk at csd.uwm.edu>
Subject: RE: Milwaukee Brew Pubs
Hi,
> I'll be traveling to Milwaukee, Wisconsin next week and
> am looking for info on brewpubs, microbreweries, and/or
> good watering holes.
There's is no real Brewpubs in the Milwaukee Area, but there are some good
microbrews here. Try Lakefront Brewery. They have great beer and they let
you sample lots of it! Good bars are Zur Krone, Von Triers, and the Uptowner.
If you need any more info just write me back.
Mk...
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
+ Matt Koster - Milwaukee, WI - matthewk at csd.uwm.edu +
+ WWW: http://www.uwm.edu/~matthewk/ +
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
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Date: Fri, 31 Mar 95 11:47:11 TZ
From: rdevine at microsoft.com
Subject: Re: Moravian Barley
> Moravian Barley, Grows at altitude, so it malts up better, so the new Coors
> ad on TV states via one non-yuppie type. Anybody ever heard of Moravian
> Barley other than the Coors ad?
It is a good strain of barley. I think that it is still used in
Pilsner Urquell.
Actaully, Coors uses a different strain of the origina, Moravian-4, I remember.
Bob Devine
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Date: Fri, 31 Mar 95 13:20:12 PST
From: "Troy" <troy at oculus>
Subject: Re: Racking
In Homebrew Digest #1694, Rob Emenecker <robe at cadmus.com> asks:
>For the collective intelligence out there (G), is there any benefit to racking
>into a secondary (my primary is a 5-gal carboy) if I am not dry hopping? Would
>my brew benefit from additional conditioning in a secondary?
<<snip>>
Personally, I rack to secondary for about a week primarily because it reduces
the gunk in the bottom of my bottles. It also gives me a lot more flexibility
on when to bottle.
I don't think that it actually IMPROVES most ales (its a different story for
lagers, of course), however, there _have_ been detrimental effects reported from
letting beer sit on trub for too long. The effect of trub on the finished beer
product has been the subject of much debate in the past. I don't know that it
was ever answered to anyone's satisfaction.
-Troy
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Date: Fri, 31 Mar 95 18:24
From: NEEVES at mailgate.navsses.navy.mil (NEEVES)
Subject: Rcpt: Homebrew Digest #1667 (Fe
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Date: Fri, 31 Mar 1995 17:33:32 -0700
From: flemingk at usa.net (Kirk R Fleming)
Subject: Dry-hops In the Copper
I'm not cheap or anything, but...
Is there any good reason why hops used for, say, a 3-day dry-hop
in the secondary could not be usefully employed as bittering hops?
Assume we're looking at an all-Cascade recipe, for example.
Kirk R Fleming
Colorado Springs
flemingk at usa.net
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Date: Sat, 1 Apr 95 00:19:00 UTC
From: t.olsen at genie.geis.com
Subject: Shreier malt/Scottish brewerie
Subjeect: Shreier Malt/ Scottish breweries
Recently I began brewing with Shreier 2 row barley fron Sheboygan Wisconsin.
So far I have been very satisfied using it for both my ales and lagers. It
appears to me to be a little plumper than Briess 2 row. Does anyone have thing
good or bad to say about it?
I have been asked by a friend who is getting married in Scotland this June
for a list of breweries/brewpubs to visit. Unfortunatly my Scotish ale book by
Greg Noonan is missing somewhere in the house. Does anyone have any suggestions
or know of any books/ beer tourists guides etc. available? Please email me if
any. TIA
Tim Olsen
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Date: Fri, 31 Mar 1995 18:45:39 -0500
From: ajdel at interramp.com (A. J. deLange)
Subject: Moravian Barley/Excess Gypsum
Ed Quier ELQ1 at PGE.COM asks
>Anybody ever heard of Moravian Barley other than the Coors ad?
Jean De Clerk has. He says "The best varieties of barley are cultivated in
Moravia,
especially in the valley region of Hanna. In fact, Hanna barleys are consided
the finest malting barleyus in the world." (Vol I p 12)
jds at equinox.ShaysNet.COM (john shearer) slipped and dumped 2 Oz of gypsum
into his
(presumably) 5 gallon batch of beer and asks for comments:
This amounts to about 11 grams per gallon or about 2.8 grams per litre. This is
more than can dissolve in water (2.2 grams/l hot or 2.4 g/l cold) so some
would never have gone into solution and would, presumably, have settled out
with other trub material. Nevertheless, 2.4 g/l is a lot of gypsum. This works
out to about 560 ppm calcium (compare 268 ppm for Burton water) and 1340 ppm
sulfate (compare 638 ppm for Burton). Thus this brew will have about twice
the levels of these ions as a Burton Ale. Expect hops bitterness to be extremely
harsh. The only problems I can think of with the calcium are excessive phosphate
precipitation which might lead to fermentation problems and production of
calcium oxalate haze. In for a penny, in for a pound, I'd stick with the
beer unless it won't ferment or a taste test proves it just too
minerally/harsh.
AJ
ajdel at interramp.com
A.J. deLange Numquam in dubio, saepe in errore!
ajdel at interramp.com
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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1696, 04/03/95