HOMEBREW Digest #1748 Sat 03 June 1995

Digest #1747 Digest #1749

		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor

  Forget the Mercury - Leaded Crystal Once Again (daniel eugene gates)
  So long and thanks... (Ed Blonski)
  Celis Pale Bock/batch yeast starter/Sparge from Hell/extract colours/HSA/judging (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
  etiquette and protocol (Robert Lauriston/Patricia Bennett)
  (Painted) Hot Water Circulator Pumps (Philip DiFalco)
  filterbeds (Robert Lauriston/Patricia Bennett)
  Styles in Compention (StanM13541)
  Target Hops (offpeak)
  Hunter-Thompson Air Conditioning Controller (offpeak)
  Priming foam (Philip Gravel)
  Priming foam (mike.keller)
  Brewpubs and Brewing supply in the Boston Area (Gilad Barak)
  Course/Sanitation (Kevin Emery DSN 584-2900  )
  Michael & Growler Informaion (Alton Clark Dubois)
  Tubing for steam (Mark A. Stevens)
  Hoplessly Lazy (Joseph.Fleming)
  Hop Plant Fertilizer (Art McGregor)
  rhubarb  wine (Jackie MacDonald)
  Where are the results? (WOLFF)
  Starters/All-Grain/Current Threads (Jeff Stampes)
  --Non-informative subject line -- (Russell Mast)
  Re: inexpensive hop scale (David Ard)
  CO2 in the Fridge--Again (Kirk Fleming / Metro Technologies)
  Yeastcicle! (Aaron Shaw)
  Lee vs Larry/Yeast Starters (3 Items) (Kirk Fleming / Metro Technologies)
  Micros in the Netherlands (Nir Navot)
  Rick's Wicked Summer Brew (WattsBrew)
  Summer yeast, Wit (kpnadai)
  Root Beer Beer (Tfranklin)
  munich malt (Btalk)
  re: green beer (jwolf)
  New technical brewing conference and trade show (BTEditor)
  Thanks (Nikolaus Matheis)
  RE:Free-Style Competition (Scott Howe)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 31 May 1995 13:33:34 -0600 (MDT) From: daniel eugene gates <gatesd at unm.edu> Subject: Forget the Mercury - Leaded Crystal Once Again Having remembered the extensive thread on Leaded Crystal I happened upon an article titled "FDA Advice on Leaded Crystalware" from Art Hazards News (from an FDA Talk Paper dated March 12, 1991). The article shows that storing Port Wine, having a normal lead level of 0.089 ppm showed increasing levels of lead, increasing to 3.5 ppm after 4 months. Another example, using apple juice and crystal baby bottles and regular baby bottles, showed that lead levels in the juice rose from 0.001 ppm to 0.166 after four hours, with no increase in the regular bottles. Similar results were noted in using warm infant formula (contributed to the heating of the formula). The primary study reviewed 60 containers from 17 different countries. Using a 4% acetic acid solution (similar to household vinegar) the tests being conducted over 1 24 hour period showed that lead levels rose from non-detectable to 7.2 ppm. One conclusion was that the longer the wine and spirits sat the greater the lead levels. Sorry if this is still beating a dead horse, but at least it's nothing on mercury, or beating up the dentists, or blowing up my hand on a CO2 cartridge. TIA, SYRS, TWA, CYZPDQ, RSVP ASAP, and all the rest. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 31 May 1995 14:46:50 -0500 From: s851001 at umslvma.umsl.edu (Ed Blonski) Subject: So long and thanks... for all the beer! (my apologies to Douglas Adams) I finally did it! I got my Masters from Concordia Seminary and will be ordained and installed as Pastor of Christ Lutheran Church in White Cloud, MI! As a result, I'll be losing my account in St. Louis so I'm saying goodbye for now. I'll probably be back online through Compuserve sometime this summer. Thanks for all the help and insight and just plain fun! I'm a better brewer for reading the HBD! Look for me at the supply store and micro-brewery in Grand Rapids, MI! See ya! *-----------------------------------------------------------------------* *Ed Blonski (s851001 at umslvma.umsl.edu) "But I'm young enough to remember* *Rush fan (the band and the man!) the future and the way things * * ought to be!" NP * *Titus 1:5-9 Concordia Seminary, St.Louis - Class of 1995 * *-----------------------------------------------------------------------* Return to table of contents
Date: 31 May 95 14:53:00 -0500 From: korz at iepubj.att.com (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583) Subject: Celis Pale Bock/batch yeast starter/Sparge from Hell/extract colours/HSA/judging Jim writes: >I'm planning on brewing a Belgian Pale Ale (a la Celis Pale Bock) in a >couple of weeks. I've read Jeff Frane's series on brewing Belgian beers, and >was planning on using the Brewtek CL-300 yeast. But then a friend of I split >a bottle of Chimay Grand Reserve last night... I'm culturing it now, and >wondering if it would be at all an appropriate choice. Celis Pale Bock is really not very "Belgian." In my opinion, it's a slightly nutty pale ale brewed by a brewery formerly owned by a Belgian expatriate. I have yet to get that kind of nutty flavour profile from any of Wyeast's strains and have not tried the Brewtek yeasts, but Nottingham dry yeast has given me a slight nutty flavour in the past. I don't know if it is alive or not, but if the yeast in the bottom of the Grant's beers is alive, it would be a good choice, I think. All the Grant's beers have a "peanutty" kind of aroma and perhaps fermented cooler (low 60's), might work to emulate Celis Pale Bock. If it a flavour like Chimay Grande Reserve that you seek, then it is not Belgian Ale that you are longing for, but rather Trappist Strong Ale. The Yeast FAQ I got (could not get the up-to-date one) did not have CL-300 in it, but if CL-300 is the old CL-30, then my guess is that it could be similar to the Chimay yeast. If you do use the Chimay yeast, keep your fermentation cool (low 60's) so that the esters and peppery flavours don't get out of control. To answer the question in your subject, "Chimay Yeast for Belgian Pale Ale?" I would say, no. Chimay Yeast is a bit too peppery/spicy for a Belgian Pale Ale. My advice for a Belgian Pale Ale would be one of the yeasts of Belgian origin from The Yeast Culture Kit Company or Head Start. The yeasts of Trappist origin usually have too much character for a Belgian Pale Ale. *** Dion writes: >By starting yeast out in a small quantity of starter wort and shaking it >up often to oxygenate, you keep the yeast in their multiplication >phase. When they are just about to go into alcohol production >(usually the next day), you dump them into fresh wort in a larger >size, shake often again and keep them in multiplication phase. What >you are suggesting will, IMHO, get you a much smaller population of >yeast and they will be in hibernation, all spent. What you really >want is a huge population still multiplying to beat the band. I disagree. Assuming there was enough oxygen in the headspace of the starter to cause the yeast to forgo the fermentation phase and stay in the respiratory growth phase (Pasteur effect) this would only favor exactly what we would like: lots of yeast. Why should we care if the starter yeast went in to alcohol production (fermentation) or not? I would be more concerned about the fact that Nigel was suggesting using pure dextrose. His other source of food (DME) would be much better. Once monosaccharide levels reach a critical level (sorry, have to look in a book for this one) respiratory growth is suppressed completely (Crabtree effect). In gerneral, brewing yeast don't respire too well on monosaccharides (glucose (dextrose), fructose, etc.). This is why DME is a far better idea. Finally, as I've posted many times in the past, glycogen levels should ideally be high at pitching time. Glycogen levels are the highest just after the yeast begin to flocculate, so this is the ideal pitching time, not high kraeusen like most books say. Yes, you may get a shorter lag time, but lag time (I feel) is a poor measure of the quality of a ferment -- consider also acetaldehyde production and reduction, diacetyl production and reduction, alcohol tolerence, attenuation, etc. *** Mark writes: > No adjucts or anything, and I gave it what I thought was a fairly coarse >grind in my phillmill. This has worked beautifully for the past 30 batches; >the only thing I did different this time was that I use deWulf-Cosyns malt >instead of my usual Briess or Munton&Fison. The DeWolf-Cosyns malts appear to have become less and less well-modified in recent shipments. I did not have any problem with several recent batches made with 7# of DWC Pale and no other grains, but I used a JSP MaltMill and EasyMasher. My suspicion is perhaps that for your grind and laeuter tun, the lower modification is causing the problems. I just did a 60/68 upward infusion. I would have expected your 60F rest to have taken care of the gumminess. Did you mash out? Did you let the grain bed run dry? Maybe a longer rest at 40C would help? My 60F rest was 20 minutes and the 68C rest was 1 hour. Maybe you should try increasing your 60C rest too? *** Curt writes: >color, type of malt(s) used, and the process itself. I am perplexed about how >Northwestern Gold is darker in color than NW Amber, and that Alexanders Pale >is lightyears lighter than any other extract syrup on the planet. At least in my store, the Northwestern Amber sells more than twice as fast as the Northwestern Gold. As extracts age, they darken. Could you have been comparing old Gold with fresh Amber? NW is one of the few mfrs who put packaging dates on their boxes. Check the dates. I would recommend using the extract within 6 months of the packaging date unless it is kept refrigerated, and even then, I'd say about a year, max. Alexanders seems to move quite quickly too, but have you noticed that it is quite a bit less syrupy than all other extracts? This is intentional since the makers are trying to minimize the caramelization that is inevitable during the concentration process. You will not also that Alexanders gives you less pts/lb/gal than other extracts (see the Zymurgy article on extracts). *** Tim writes: >My normal procedure is to pour the just-boiled >wort into a plastic fermenter, into which I have placed a nylon mesh bag to >catch all the hop "crud" and other stuff. This has the obvious benefit, >but it occurs to me it may also have a drawback: am I loosing some hop >flavor (and perhaps aroma) by removing so quickly the hops that were added >within the final 10 minutes of boil (from 10 minutes to flameoff)? I boil my flavour hops 15 minutes and with 1 ounce of fresh Cascade pells in a 5 gallon batch get a hop flavour that coats your tongue. Yumm! No, I think 10 minutes is fine for hop flavour and don't worry about removing the hops too early, but I *would* worry about Hot Side Aeration (HSA) if I were you. Aerating hot (over 80F or so) wort oxidizes it very quickly and the flavour result from this is often associated with "sherry" or "nuts." Try cooling before pouring and you will be surprized at the improvement in your beer. *** Stan writes: >Also I must take what the judges say with a grain of salt. Not all judges are created equal. With experience, most judges improve and while the chance of getting a good judge was low 10 years ago, your odds are far, far better these days. It's still a crap shoot to win a competition but after reviewing my AHA 1st round scoresheets, I'd say that only two of my eighteen entries could have been judged better and of those two, one may have been an odd bad bottle. I'm an experienced judge, but I gained a world of insight from that *impartial* feedback. Even at club meetings you can't always get honest feedback from a fellow brewer when you're standing right there next to your beer. Al. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 31 May 95 13:05:31 -0700 From: robtrish at noif.ncp.bc.ca (Robert Lauriston/Patricia Bennett) Subject: etiquette and protocol Q?: What is/should be HBD etiquette? (Beyond the standard intro comments?) My unoriginal suggestions, # 1. Be brief. Edit your posting to shorten it. Continue the Hg thread or slag it, but don't waste space. # 2. I would suggest that those who pose questions be prepared to receive responses privately, acknowledge receipt to the senders, compile the responses and share the results. I'll do that for the etiquette question. The benefits would be quicker response to the questioner and a compiled answer for subscribers that would likely be better than that provided by most individuals. Tim Fields's roundup re Irish Moss in 1737 shows the virtue of this procedure. # 3. corollary of 2: Most reponses should initially be private with the exception of those responding to multiple questions together, who feel they can speak with particular authority and those who don't feel like it. The anarchy of the forum is wonderful and monstrous. The HBD is amazingly orderly despite the potential for chaos. People will do what they like, I'm hoping some will find these suggestions appealing. I'm not going to write to anyone twice if they don't acknowledge my attempt to share knowledge. Reducing the turnaround time on the HBD would in turn reduce the redundancy. I hate to see the spread of incorrect information and feel an obligation to nip it in the bud. The numerous rebuttals to Mr. Sysil concerning stuck fermentations make me feel that there are many like minded subscribers. Redundancy here shows a weight of opinion and should be good. BTW, I have a lot of fun trying to get and give the best information. I don't think the witty banter that takes place sharing a beer translates well to this medium. Comic genius misplaced is a waste. Pardon me if this subject has been covered and is FAQed. I'm restricted to E-mail, not by my connection, but by ignorance and a 386. Ignorance will pass, but remedies from quacks and hacks are invited. "Am I a jerk if I don't lurk?" - -- Rob Lauriston <robtrish at noif.ncp.bc.ca> for those who like acronyms with meaning: North Okanagan Information Freeway Northern Computer Products British Columbia, Canada Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 31 May 95 16:09:35 -0400 From: Philip DiFalco <sxupjd at aikman.fnma.COM> Subject: (Painted) Hot Water Circulator Pumps I'm looking to buy a new Hot Water Circulator Pump. I have a March pump and am satisified with its construction (all bronze, no painted parts) and its performance. But I'd like a little more pumping power. So, I'm also looking at the Teel and Tayco pumps. The ones I've looked at cost about $120 (from Graingers) and are 1/40 hp, bronze construction, rated for potable use. The thing I don't understand is, "why do they paint the pumps red or tan"?. Not only are the outsides painted, but it appears that the insides (to the extent where fluid would come into contact) are painted also. I'd be interested in hearing from anyone with experience with these sort of painted pumps. Thanks. - --- Philip DiFalco, sxupjd at fnma.com FannieMae, 3900 Wisconsin Ave., NW, Washington, DC 20016 1-202-752-2812; 1-800-SKY-FNMA (PIN#471-1735) Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 31 May 95 15:34:25 -0700 From: robtrish at noif.ncp.bc.ca (Robert Lauriston/Patricia Bennett) Subject: filterbeds I worked with a German made lauter tun with height adjustable rakes and you could rake to within a couple of inches of the slotted screen (in a grainbed over two feet deep) without causing the wort to become cloudy. In their lowest position, the rakes just skimmed about a quarter inch above the screen -- this was used for removing the spent grain. If you raked that low during runoff, the wort definitely became cloudy. This happened when the hydraulics leaked and allowed the rake to fall below what was intended. >From this I would conclude that, while there are fine particles held back throughout the whole grainbed, it is the very bottom which is critical in maintaining clear wort. (BTW, a recirculation of five minutes gave brilliant wort.) I had to add this because p.90 of the Practical Brewer is misleading if not plain wrong. Rob Lauriston Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 31 May 1995 19:45:26 -0400 From: StanM13541 at aol.com Subject: Styles in Compention I agree brewing to a style and producing what you expect is important. But arbitrary style catagories don't help, especially if commercial ales don't fit into the style catagories!! Examples: Thomas Hardy Ale OG 1.127, barleywine max OG 1.120 (from suds) EKU 28 Dopplebock OG 1.112, dopplebock max OG 1.080 Old Peceular Ale Color in the 50's and NO English styles come close to it. McEwans Scotch Ale black as coal, Strong Scotch ale max color 47.0 srm I believe the competion style catagories are seriously flawed when commercial ales we're trying to clone won't fit into ant of the styles. I will swear to brew only to style if everyone in favor of ridgid styles swears to never drink a commercial brew that doesn't meet the proper style for color, IBU, gravity, etc. (you'll miss a lot of classic brews) Direct flames to Stan at boil.tun (a little caramlization is good for Scotch ales) Stan Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 31 May 1995 22:27:58 -0400 From: offpeak at aol.com Subject: Target Hops Does anyone know of a source of Target hops? (pellets). Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 31 May 1995 22:32:20 -0400 From: offpeak at aol.com Subject: Hunter-Thompson Air Conditioning Controller Does any one know of a source of the Hunter-Thompson Digital Air-Conditioning contoller? I know Builder's Square used to carry them, but our local store closed up. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 31 May 95 22:25 CDT From: pgravel at mcs.com (Philip Gravel) Subject: Priming foam ===> David Wright asks about priming foam: >I am an extract brewer who has also experienced foaming when adding >priming sugar prior to bottling. I have not been making a solution >with the priming sugar but just adding it straight into my beer. The >only foam I get is on the top of the beer in the bucket I use to >bottle from. I don't get any foam in the bottles themselves. Is there >a better way to do this? The sugar crystals provide nucleation sites where gases (CO2) gather and form bubbles. The 'solution' to your problem is to make a priming sugar solution. - -- Phil _____________________________________________________________ Philip Gravel Lisle, Illinois pgravel at mcs.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 95 03:11:00 UTC From: mike.keller at genie.geis.com Subject: Priming foam In HBD 1745 David Wright asks the correct amount of priming sugar for 5 liter minikegs. General wisdom says about ONE HALF the normal priming sugar for a batch. If you use 3/4 cup normally to five gallons, that would be 3/8 cup. Since I only keg part of a batch, and bottle the rest, I generally just add 1 tablespoon of corn sugar to the keg and fill it, then prime the rest of the batch in the priming bucket at the correct proportion (takes a bit of math, there) and then bottle the remainder. Hope that helps, I've only screwed up one keg and I don't think I overprimed, as the bottles were foamy, too. Mike Keller, SysOp, Zymurgy RoundTable, GEnie Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 1995 10:54:36 +0300 From: gilad at orbotech.co.il (Gilad Barak) Subject: Brewpubs and Brewing supply in the Boston Area Hello brewers in the Boston area, I will be visiting the Boston area (Newton, Woburn, Billerica area to be more specific) within a week or so for 1-2 weeks. Could any of you please recommend good brewpubs in the mentioned suburbs and closer to town (Cambridge, Brookline etc.). I would also like to get a list of brewing supplies stores. The only one I know is in Woburn (I think) on Old Boston rd. Will any of the brewpubs let me into their brewing area? Private email is prefered. TIA, Gilad - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gilad Barak - Israel gilad at orbotech.co.il - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 95 8:01:04 EDT From: Kevin Emery DSN 584-2900 <ksemery at cbda9.apgea.army.mil> Subject: Course/Sanitation Greetings! I will be conducting and introductory brewing course this fall at one of our local community colleges (If enough interest). Anybody out there been there/done that????? Also, in an effort to maximize sanitation... I added my yeast during the last 15 minutes of the boil along with an ounce of mercury (adds to mouth feel). My question is... Is my beer ruined? One last note... Lets get off the horse about kits vs all grain... Its the folks that don't keg that annoy me! Owner, Operator and Best Client of the Tiger Brau - Nano Brewery! Kevin North East, MD Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 01 Jun 1995 08:10:43 -0500 (CDT) From: Alton Clark Dubois <CRFDUBOISAC at CRF.CUIS.EDU> Subject: Michael & Growler Informaion I'm sorry to bother everyone, but I misplaced Michael's email address and wanted to respond to him re where to buy Growlers. Please respond on my email - CRFDUBOISAC at CRF.CUIS.EDU. Thanks Alton Clark Dubois Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 1995 09:11:02 -0400 From: stevens at stsci.edu (Mark A. Stevens) Subject: Tubing for steam Phil Gravel writes: : You might want to give polyethylene tubing a shot. It is the stiff, : milky white tubing sold along with the clear, vinyl (Tygon brand) tubing : in hardware stores. It can withstand higher temperatures than vinyl : tubing and does not contain plasticizers. Yes, but get the high density polyethylene, not the low density polyethylene. HDPE is listed as having a working temperature of 180 F, LDPE as 140 (too low for many homebrewing purposes----are these okay for food use?). Actually, since Art Steinmetz's original post said he was looking for a steam line, even 180 might be low. Tygon (and vinyl) tubing is rated at 165. Some other options are polyurethane hose (200 F), and the silicone tubing that Art Steinmetz mentioned (500 F). Art mentioned that the silicone was "Obviously not food grade", but you can get FDA approved silicone tubing from US Plastics (but it's more expensive than the HDPE). Here's cost/performance table from specs in the US Plastics catalog for some tubes that look like they'd have good applications in homebrewing (this isn't a recommendation---you should check for FDA approval and resistance to substances that you will use with the tubes): Type ID" OD" Wall MaxTemp Cost/100 ft. ================================================================ Vinyl tube (Tamco) 3/8" 1/2" 1/16" 165 $20.34 LDPE 3/8" 1/2" .062"* 140 $24.98 HDPE 3/8" 1/2" .062" 180 $24.39 Polypropylene 3/8" 1/2" .062" 212 $25.69 Bev-A-Line VHT 3/8" 1/2" 1/16" 200 $164.55 + " " " IV 3/8" 1/2" 1/16" 160 $52.73 + Polyurethane 3/8" 1/2" 1/16" 200 $66.41 ++ Silicone 3/8" 1/2" 1/16" 500 $96.36 + ================================================================ * For the math impaired, 1/16" is about equal to .062" + Specifically listed as FDA approved. ++ Specifically listed as *NOT* FDA approved. Cheers! - ---Mark Stevens stevens at stsci.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 01 Jun 95 09:11:37 est From: Joseph.Fleming at gsa.gov Subject: Hoplessly Lazy I am lazy. Unfortunately I am also busy. Regretfully my lust for brewing is not great enough to view yeast starters as anything else than a pain in the butt. Why doesn't liquid yeast come in larger smack packs with a higher cell count? Ray Daniels cites an average of 1 to 5 billion cells in a swollen liquid yeast pack and a needed cell count of 200 billion for pitching. OK, so maybe they can't make the pack 80 times bigger, but can't they increase the cell count and create something that approximates a good pitching rate? Well, I figger there's reasons - can yeast wizards elaborate? Should I market the Smack-N-Go? On my hydrometer question; drinking is certainly second nature to us homebrewers, so its not surprising that we polish off the samples. But does anyone pour the sample back into the wort when taking a OG reading, preferring to wait for a conditioned and carbonated pint? How about when sampling for FG readings? I guess I'm wondering if people throw caution to the wind and risk contaminating their brew by replacing samples (well, if everything's sanitary it should be OK, right? Right?). I was hoping to hear from people about their practices. How about time honored yeast starting techniques or toys (I use an apple juice bottle) that people are fond of? Joe - joseph.fleming at gsa.gov Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 01 Jun 1995 09:54:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Art McGregor <mcgregap at acq.osd.mil> Subject: Hop Plant Fertilizer Hi All, I have some Hop plants growing in their second year, and would like to add some fertilizer, as their growth has stalled for the past few weeks. In their first year I mixed composted cow manure with the soil prior to planting, and the plants grew well. Since the cow manure has been composted in soil I can't add much of the composted manure mixture on top of the plant mounds. What is a good alternate fertilizer for hops? Is Miracle Grow any good, or only a short term fix? TIA Hoppy Brewing :^) Art McGregor (mcgregap at acq.osd.mil) Northern Virginia, USA Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 95 08:23:58 MDT From: jmacdon at terranet.terranet.ab.ca (Jackie MacDonald) Subject: rhubarb wine >To: homebrew at hpfcm.fc.hp.com >From: jmacdon at terranet.terranet.ab.ca (Jackie MacDonald) > > I am looking for information on making rhubarb wine. I am wondering if anyone in this group would know how to do this or if someone may be able to direct me to the correct group. I would like to know the process I would need to follow to make the wine from the plant. Thanks for any information you are able to provide me with. > >Thanks > >Jackie MacDonald >Grande Prairie, AB >(403) 539-2368 > ><jmacdon at terranet.ab.ca> > Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 1995 11:01:36 -0400 (EDT) From: WOLFF at eclus.bwi.wec.com Subject: Where are the results? Carolina Homejrewers held a competition on April 29. To date other than contact that!I have initiated by calling the president of the club I have received no results. Has anyone else received any results(non-club members)? I was told they were sent out on May 8-10 time frame. Then was given the excuse that a letter was left out of the address, but the zip code was correct. I brew over 200 gallons a year and have enteree other contests. I've not had this problem. It's not like I'm waiting with bated breath, but if one goes thru the effort of brewing and entering a contest the organizers should get their"act together and run a professional competition. The competition doesn't end when the beer is finished.and I'm sure others are waiting for results-if not and by some reason I got lost in the rush -I apologize beforehand-otherwise I'm not alone in waiting. Flame retardant and nuclear hardened!! BW Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 95 08:45:59 MDT From: stampes at neocad.com (Jeff Stampes) Subject: Starters/All-Grain/Current Threads In #1746, Ray Daniels Asserted: >When using liquid yeast you MUST make a starter if you hope to have a decent >ferment. Not to be argumentative, but my experiences have showed this statement to be untrue. I have probably used liquid yeasts for my last 25-30 batches, and have made a grand total of *2* starters. Every single batch has has a decent ferment. Admittedly, if I don't pop it early enough, it can take 48 hours for the ferment to become really active, but as I now fill the carboy headspace with CO2, this never concerns me. (I never worried anyway actually). To further tempt fate and conventional wisdom, there has been one or two times, where I have not been able to wait for the pack to swell (brewing the night before vacation and forgetting to pop the pack early for example) and I have cut open a totally flat pack, dumped it in and prayed for the best. Guess what? It worked just fine. Starters are the ideal scenario. However, if you don't make one, you will in all likelihood end up with a healthy, active ferment. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= In HBD#1745, Pat Babcock asks: >I don't believe there is anyone out there as an "all-grainer" who >exclusively brews all-grain batches, is there? Sure is. I've been on all-grain for 18 months now, and haven't touched extract in that time. I am not disputing the fact that you can make EXCELLENT beers with extract...of course you can! For me it's like cooking though. If I'm going to have stew for dinner on a Saturday, I'll start early and make it from scratch rather than open a can of Dinty Moore. If I don't have time to do that, I won't have it. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= On other current threads: Mercury: Cool element or just a really fast guy with wings on his feet? My advice, don't eat it or paint your face with it. If you do ingest some, follow with a coriander chaser, make a Belgian Starter and contact your poison control center. CO2 tank temps: My tanks and kegs sit out in my shed. With a dirt floor, a shady location, and an elevation of over 9,000' it stays a pretty constant 45F in there. But no matter where I take them with me, I leave the regulator alone, and beer is always the same. Styles: Some do, some don't. Those that do, are currently stuck with the AHA guidelines. If you don't like their guidelines, come up with your own. Ok? Normal consumption: Dunno what 'normal' is. I know that I probably have between 16-24 beers a week, but almost NEVER get 'drunk' (2 most nights, 3 some nights, and I may have 4 on weekends). 'nuff said - -- Jeff Stampes -- NeoCAD, Inc. -- Boulder, CO -- stampes at neocad.com -- - -- Ultimate Frisbee...It's not just for dogs anymore. -- - -- Any fool can make bread out of grain...God intended it for beer! -- Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 1995 11:44:09 -0500 From: Russell Mast <rmast at fnbc.com> Subject: --Non-informative subject line -- > (Note: This message has been degenerated by a programmer) > > From: nr706 at mcs.com > > Subject: 'Normal' intake > > > microbrew drinkers > > average "6.3 beers a week, compared with 4.7 a week for non-micro > > drinkers." > > The question is, however, is this (non-micro)-drinkers or > non-(micro-drinkers). That is, is this 4.7 group _beer_drinkers_ who don't > drink microbrews, or are these just _anyone_ who doesn't drink microbrews. > If you have some non-drinkers thrown in there, or wine-drinkers, or something, > that's going to skew the sample downwards. > > Also, it might be the case that people who drink lots of beer are more likely > to occasionally grab a micro-brewed beer than those who don't drink much, and > then they switch to the other category, skewing the micro-group upwards. > > I guess what I'm saying is that, all other problems with phone-polls aside, > this study is pretty darned useless unless they have well-defined categories. > Still, it's pretty cool that someone's asking. > > > From: equinox at halcyon.com (Michael Collins) > > Subject: Re: Split HBD? > > > Like I said, the thought was fleeting and I apologize for bringing it up. > > I did my homework and searched through HBD archives for 'split' and > > realized my error. > > Well, I forgive you for it, but I'm not sure I havmuch say in the matter. > After all, I'm just an all-grain brewer. > > -R > > Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 1995 11:58:30 -0500 (CDT) From: David Ard <davidard at mmc.mtmercy.edu> Subject: Re: inexpensive hop scale I read an evaluation of a small hand held postal scale in Consumer Reports a couple of years ago and realized that it would work for weighing hops. I find that by attaching a small plastic sandwich bag to hold the hops I could accurately weigh them. It is accurate within 2 grams. It is scaled in ounces on one side and grams on the other. It is scaled up to 4 ounces and 100 grams. When I bought it, it cost about $5. It is called an MP 4000 SCALE. Order from METAL PRODUCTS ENGINEERING, INC., 3864 Santa Fe Ave., Los Angeles, CA 90058. For Credit Card Orders, call 1-800-824-0222. This information is taken from the card that came with the scale. I have no financial interest in this company. I hope these are still available. It seems the perfect low cost solution to accurate hop measurments for homebrewers. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 1995 11:15:51 -0600 (MDT) From: Kirk Fleming / Metro Technologies <flemingk at usa.net> Subject: CO2 in the Fridge--Again Jeff Renner and Lee Bristol exchange info re: CO2 pressure and refrigerated tanks, etc. My read on this is that Jeff and Lee agree that the regulator will supply the indicated pressure (low-side pressure) to the kegs regardless of ambient keg temperature. They also seem to agree that the regulator will deliver more CO2 to the colder tkeg, in order to maintain the indicated guage pressure. I *think* what Lee may have been saying is that although this is indeed true, it isn't what you *want* to maintain the level of dissolved CO2 in product. IOW, you don't need to do anything to compensate for guage readings due to temperature changes in the system, but you *do* need to lower the pressure if you don't want to overcarbonate colder beer. Did I miss what the point of contention was? As the beer is cooled in the keg, the regulator supplies more gas to maintain the pressure due to reduced temp, AND supplies yet more gas to "replace" in effect the increased volume of CO2 that goes into solution. This latter effect is one you don't want if you desire the same carbonation level you had at the higher product temp. - ------------------------------------------------------ Kirk R Fleming / Colorado Springs / flemingk at usa.net - ------------------------------------------------------ Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 1995 13:45:18 -0400 From: ar568 at freenet.carleton.ca (Aaron Shaw) Subject: Yeastcicle! Dear Fellow Brewers, My beer fridge got too cold and I froze my packet of Wyeast 3278 (Dooh!). I had not popped the inner seal yet. Will I be able to use this yeast? Or have they gone to that great Lambic Heaven in the sky? - -- "Come my lad, and drink some beer!" Aaron Shaw Ottawa, Canada Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 1995 12:20:21 -0600 (MDT) From: Kirk Fleming / Metro Technologies <flemingk at usa.net> Subject: Lee vs Larry/Yeast Starters (3 Items) In my recent post re: CO2 in the fridge I mistakenly referred to Larry Bristol as LEE and I want to apologize for the error and try to nip it. Yeast Starters (1) Ray Daniels' point re: relative population sizes of dry yeast vs liquid packages is a good one. However, based on common usage I've seen and heard part of the term 'starter' is apparently used to mean either a treatment meant to make (dry) yeast happy and prepped, and also to increase the population of (liquid) yeast. So, some folks may be talking 'starter' in the dry yeast context, meaning warm water pretty much. Yeast Starters (2) RE: Ray Daniels' comments about starter population increases. The figure of 20E7 cells for a 1L starter, from an original package size of 1-5E7 indicates two cell splits (help me out here), roughly. My question is: for some given cell count-to-sugar mass ratio can one expect a certain average number of such splits? IOW, if you know the mass of food and know the number of cells, can you estimate how many times the cells will split before the food is played out? Yeast Starters (3) Lots of folks culture Chimay from the bottle. I tried it one time by decanting the Chimay (that was good...uhhmmm) and pitching the sediment into a like-temperature wort. This was all at about 55F I'd say, both beer and wort. I then let the wort warm up to room temp, about 70F, for a week with no growth/activity of any kind. Other than letting the sediment warm up first and pitching into 70F wort, are there any 'tricks' to culturing this yeast? Does anyone know for certain whether the yeast in the bottom of the Chimay bottle is the primary ferment yeast vs just a bottling yeast? Kirk R Fleming / Colorado Springs Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 1995 21:41:16 +0300 From: diagen at netvision.net.il (Nir Navot) Subject: Micros in the Netherlands Do you know of any micros or brewpubs in Holland? I need adresses, telphone numbers and general information since a friend of mine with whom I am contemplating the establisment of a micro will be going there in a short while. Many thanks. Please reply by private email. Nir. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 1995 15:42:35 -0400 From: WattsBrew at aol.com Subject: Rick's Wicked Summer Brew Re: Rick's Wicked Summer Ale I'm an extract brewer and have been lurking for about two weeks now. I am going to try Rick's Wicked Summer Brew recipe from HBD #1744 converted to extract. What I really need to know is "What is the gravity contribution per pound per gallon of Munton's Wheat DME? TIA from a newbie extract brewer. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 95 14:33:14 PDT From: kpnadai at adsnet.com Subject: Summer yeast, Wit A few HBDs ago, I missed a discussion about high temp yeast for unrefrigerated ale brewing in summer. I am interested in this yeast, I think from Dave in Sydney. He called it Cooper's yeast. Is it the same yeast that comes in the Cooper's real ale kit I accidently bought the other day? If not, where can I get this "summer yeast"? Does anyone have any recipes for two cans of Cooper's real ale kits? Hey Dave in Sydney! Way cool posting on priming by weight today! Has anyone either sampled Wit beer or read over the offering circular? Brew Bayou, Kevin Indiana, USA Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 1995 16:14:11 -0400 (EDT) From: Tfranklin <franklin at nando.net> Subject: Root Beer Beer I'm getting ready to make my first batch of Root Beer Beer. I've gotten a variety of answers to my question: How much Root Beer Extract should I put in for a 5 gallon batch? So, to increase my confusion and compound the number of suggestions, I'll ask it here. "How much Root Beer Extract should I put in for a 5 gallon batch of Root Beer Beer?" E-mail me directly with suggestions and/or complete recipies. They'll all be appreciated. I'll even post the findings should there be enough interest. Thanks. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 1995 16:16:31 -0400 From: Btalk at aol.com Subject: munich malt Al K amplifies my comment about using Munich malt in extract brews for more maltiness, by saying to use it in a mini mash to get anything other than haze out of it. Oops, sorry. I guess I forgot to say that in my original post. Thanks for mentioning that Al. When making an extract brew I always mini mash all the specialty malts. Regards, Bob Talkiewicz, Binghamton, NY <btalk at aol.com> Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 01 Jun 95 14:31:09 EST From: jwolf at smtplink.penril.com Subject: re: green beer I have received a lot of direct mail asking if there was a response to my thread of aging beer. The answer is: "Not Much." I did get one serious response (below) but that's it. Does this mean that within the "BEER COLLECTIVE" knowledge of what happens during the aging process is a mystery? I doubt it. This has the promise of becoming a very interesting thread. This should be more interesting and informative than spilled mercury or RIM systems. It certainly hits us all closer to home. TIA, Jeff Wolf jwolf at penril.com ______________________________ Forward Header __________________________________ Subject: re: green beer Author: CSS2 at OAS.PSU.EDU (SPEAKER.CURTIS) at INTERNET Date: 5/24/95 8:37 AM Jeff: Besides the ethanol and CO2 that the yeasties make when the are going through active fermentation, they produce a lot of other by-products; many of them are esters. Once the yeast has used up all of the corn sugar/DME/gyle that you primed the beer with, the yeast will begin to work on these other materials. Depending on the amount of "unfermentable" dextrins in your finished beer, this may take days, weeks or even months. The example that comes to mind immediately is acetylaldehyde. This chemical is what gives green apples their characteristic "bite". It is produced by all yeasts, but especially by lager yeast (Wyeast #2007 in particular). It is what gives Bud it's signature flavor. But if you make a lager with #2007, and let sit in the bottle for a few months, this characteristic will fade (I just experienced this firsthand). Diacetyl is another chemical that will give you a butter/butterscotch flavor in beer; lagering at a low temp (<50F) will cause the yeast to reabsorb the diacetyl for food. I am not a brewing scientist; but with a B.S. in biochemistry, I do know a little about yeast and their lifecycle. Hope this helps Hoppy Brewing Curt Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 1995 16:36:17 -0400 From: BTEditor at aol.com Subject: New technical brewing conference and trade show BrewingTechniques magazine is organizing a technical brewing conference and trade show in Portland, Oregon, 26-28 July 1995. The technical program focuses on hops, malt, and the business of brewing and includes styles seminars (tastings) and workshops on hop and malt quality evaluation. Optional events include tours of hopyards and a malthouse, and a beer banquet at McMenamin's Edgefield. The event is scheduled to conclude on the opening day of the Oregon Brewers Festival (28-30 July), on the Portland Waterfront. For more information, contact BrewingTechniques by direct e-mail: btcirc at aol.com. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 1995 13:40:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Nikolaus Matheis <psu04289 at odin.cc.pdx.edu> Subject: Thanks I'd just like to thank everyone who so kindly responded to my request for info. on the Headstart Brewing Cultures company. Your private e-mail was greatly appreciated. I have not yet been in touch with Mr. Nummers, but am armed with plenty of info. to get in touch with him soon. Also thanks for responding on my rather quirky request fo info on lemongrass and lemon thyme. Now, those of you who have used Headstart cultures: how good are they? What have you used them for? I have requested a catalog, but I live across the country from the company and would like some input on the quality and practicality of the cultures sold: are they slants? are they stable? do they perform as claimed? As always, private e-mail is great. Belgian Nikolaus "Spice is the variety of beer." Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 1995 14:08:59 -0700 From: Scott Howe <howe at appmag.com> Subject: RE:Free-Style Competition Greetings. rmast at fnbc.com writes: >All this stuff on styles gives me an idea, though. Maybe someone should >sponsor a "free-style" competetion, where we just dole out scores based on >overall impression (give or take a mood or whim). Or maybe we could just >give verbal descriptions, and not even numerically rank these beers. Yeah, >send me a couple bucks and a couple bottles and I'll live it up. Whadda y'all >say? I think they should all be judged on Mouth Feel! I also think that one person should not be saddled with this much responsibility. I will be a martyr with you and try and sort all this out. The two of us can surely sit down and suffer together. We can split the money we get too! Anyone who makes one with a mercury flavor gets extra points too! as well as corriander and siphon bubbles. Someone also asked about the lack of an HBD on last Saturday... The AI robot determined the content was so bad, that it did not send one out that day. --Aubrey Howe, III howe at appmag.com Santa Barbara, CA Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1748, 06/03/95