HOMEBREW Digest #1755 Mon 12 June 1995

Digest #1754 Digest #1756

		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor

  Re:  CO2 Regulator Pressure (Troy Howard)
  RE:  BT Siphoning/ageing and conditioning/Mashing summary (Brian Pickerill)
  San Francisco Brewpubs (mike.keller)
  HBD etiquette (Robert Lauriston/Patricia Bennett)
  Q:starch in malt/ O:ageing beer/ I:FTP (Robert Lauriston/Patricia Bennett)
  Re: Nitrosamines (harry)
  Mashing wheat beers (Kirk L. Oseid)
  jumbo slap packs / regulator mechanics ("Keith Royster")
  asbestos thread (Btalk)
  Ice beer (Btalk)
  Yeast Farming and Marmite (Ray Robert)
  10 Gallon batches (Steven Lichtenberg)
  All-Grain Vs. 10-gallon (Russell Mast)
  Pressure Regulators (Lance Stronk)
  re:Liquid Yeast Bag Expanded Too Much (Robin Hanson)
  CO2/How regulators work/In&out of the fridge (Dr. David C. Harsh)
  Publist/Seattle/SFBayArea/KingKooker (David Allison 225-5764)
  Alt questions (Mark E. Lubben)
  RE: Homebrew Club Beer Related Activities (Robert Bendesky)
  STOUT - Cherry pits and honey (Eric R Hale)
  Brewing Time ("Douglas Rasor")
  Grain/Extract storage (Brian Pickerill)
  How does a regulator work? (Jeremy Ballard Bergsman)
  Ideal gas law. (Phil=Meyers)
  Hops Tea (Chris Strickland)
  Rye beer (TPuskar)
  Best aging times for different types of brew??? (dflagg)
  Kegs and airtravel (RCBEER)
  Malt extract syrup vs dry (Edwin Thompson)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 8 Jun 1995 13:58:39 +0000 From: troy at opthalmos.jsei.ucla.edu (Troy Howard) Subject: Re: CO2 Regulator Pressure In HBD 1751 Larry Bristol <larry at bristolpc.bmc.com> makes a valiant (but ultimately incorrect) effort to explain his theory of gas hydrostatics: >Have you noticed that the high pressure gauge on a bottle of CO2 at 75F reads >about 850psi, but that the pressure will "drop" to only about 500psi when >it is >cooled to 45F? Why is this true? Is there any less CO2 in the bottle? >No, it >is because (for CO2) 500psi at 45F is equivalent to 850psi at 75F. This is >simply the effect of the physical laws pertaining to the behavior of gasses. >Play with this hypotechtical - suppose we have one CO2 bottle at >850psi/75F and >another at 500psi/45F and we put a line between them. Will gas flow from one >to the other? No - they are at equilibrium. This is completely incorrect. If you connect a bottle of gas at 850psi/75F and another at 500 psi/45F with an unobstructed line, gas will flow from the 850psi bottle into the 500psi bottle until the PRESSURES are equalized, regardless of their respective temperatures. Temperature cannot exert a force (although it can affect pressure). PRESSURE can (by definition) exert a force. Pressure is defined as a force per unit area. Gas flows (indeed any object moves) because of net forces acting on the object. The "equivalency" you note above is illustrated by the ideal gas law: PRESSURE*VOLUME ~ MASS*TEMPERATURE. (I know that pressurized CO2 does not follow the ideal gas law, but instead a rather more complex equation of state. However, the true equation of state will show similar sorts of behavior and so I feel the ideal gas law is suitable for illustrative purposes). You can see from the above proportionality that when you decrease the temperature, the pressure will tend to decrease also. Your observation of the pressure drop in a colder CO2 cylinder is in essence an observation of the constant of proportionality. It most definitely DOES NOT imply an equilibrium state between two cylinders at different pressures and temperatures. >Have you noticed that the pressure of the earth's atmosphere drops as one >gains >altitude? Shouldn't the higher pressure gasses at sea level rush to >"equalize" >the low pressure gas at higher altitudes? No. Because there is no NET force on the higher pressure (lower altitude) gas in this example. Gravity exactly balances the force induced by the pressure differential. This IS an example of an equilibrium situation. As to the practical question of how to interpret cold regulator gauge readings, I have no idea! It's a fun thread though, so I hope those who know more about gauges and regulators than I do (which is zip) will continue to chime in. -Troy - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Troy Howard | Live fast, troy at oculus.jsei.ucla.edu | die young, Jules Stein Eye Institue, UCLA | and leave a good looking corpse. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - -- Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 08 Jun 1995 16:21:45 -0600 From: 00bkpickeril at bsuvc.bsu.edu (Brian Pickerill) Subject: RE: BT Siphoning/ageing and conditioning/Mashing summary Domenick Venezia writes about siphoning... >Throw away the milk jug. Get a second 2-hole carboy cap and put it on the >empty receiving carboy. Attach a short tube to the 2nd port (air port) on >the receiving carboy cap and suck. Great idea. I tend to use CP's technique of filling the hose with water. Works fine once you get the hang of it. I waste an oz or 2 of wort and put my thumb in, but it's sanitized and I have had no problems. Besides, I only have one glass carboy--so far. About ageing and conditioning... This is a fascinating thread. ALL the beers that I thought had problems so far were only because I had not waited long enough before tasting. I would recommend trying one bottle at 2 weeks bottle conditioning, and then if you don't think it is as good as it should be, WAIT. My problem is that I have often drank most of the batch before it gets really good. Dooh! I think cold conditioning has definite benefits. It seems that most brews are better after sitting in the fridge for a couple of weeks. Also, it seems that lagering the beer or leaving it in the secondary does not do nearly as much for the beer as bottle or keg conditioning. (thought I am just getting into kegging.) Finally, I would like to say THANKS to Al K. for the excellent Mashing/ steeping summary. I knew most of that, but the summary really gave a great overview of the subject. "Welcome to President Bush, Mrs. Bush, and my fellow astronauts." - Ex US Vice President Dan Quayle - --Brian K. Pickerill <00bkpickeril at bsuvc.bsu.edu> Muncie, IN Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 9 Jun 95 04:21:00 UTC From: mike.keller at genie.geis.com Subject: San Francisco Brewpubs Be sure to check out the 20 Tank Brewery in the area South of Market Street (sorry, don't remember the address, I was just visiting). They brew 4-5 of their stable of 20 brews all the time, plus carry plenty of other micros, and on Wednesday and Thursday they serve from beer engines. Good luck on finding a place to park near Anchor.<g> In fact, try to avoid a car in downtown SF entirely, if you're there a few days, plan on using the public transit. Parking downtown runs from a couple of dollars an hour to $20 a day. Sorry for the extra chat, but it's EASY to find good beer in SF. (I stumbled into a sports bar that had its own brew that was darn good, as well as having a million others on tap) The trick is getting to it. Mike Keller Zymurgy RT GEnie Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 9 Jun 95 00:40:47 -0700 From: robtrish at noif.ncp.bc.ca (Robert Lauriston/Patricia Bennett) Subject: HBD etiquette The guidelines in the HBD intro message is all the manners yous need. Response to my posting was small and contained no suggestions for modus operandii. As an unmoderated forum, there is obviously no enforcement. Those who might want a more organized forum seem to feel that subscribing to any conventional protocol was pointless without broad participation, and those not inclined to participate (Domenick aka D.V.us) saw it as the slim grim edge of a fascist wedge which would turn the world grey. Of course, 'my HBD' would have been nothing like DV.us described it. It would have been a paradise where we all had a personal dialysis machine to spare our livers and rehydrate our brains whilst we slept, with sweet dreams and hop burps. Alas. conclusion: to kill a thread, ignore it (like this one, RIP) Rob Lauriston, The Low Overhead Brewery (better between the joists) Vernon, British Columbia <robtrish at noif.ncp.bc.ca> Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 9 Jun 95 00:40:54 -0700 From: robtrish at noif.ncp.bc.ca (Robert Lauriston/Patricia Bennett) Subject: Q:starch in malt/ O:ageing beer/ I:FTP question re starch in malt: Bravo to Al Korzonas for his posting re mashing and steeping. One followup re malts that are 'mashing in the husk'. I would expect all such malts to contain some unconverted starch, am I wrong? There always remains some portion of the endosperm which is less modified and the enzymes cannot reach and convert the starch there, even in stewed malts. Mashing a milled grain is different. This may have little practical consequence, but does anyone have an opinion/info? opinion ageing beer: Ken Goodrow was wondering about the optimal ageing time. While there may be some common preferences, isn't this a matter of personal taste? Most beer flavours (including 'flaws') are acceptable in some beers, under some circumstances or to some people. Bless a beer with a Belgian label, and many a 'knowing' taster will swoon over what they would otherwise call swill. info about FTP: David Draper was directing people to publist.Z (/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer/docs at ftp.stanford.edu). This is available to every subscriber here through ftpmail, as described in the intro to each digest issue, but you have to be able to uncompress it. Also there ascii: hbd.faq P.S. using_enzymes.Z is also here (the 'beer' part of the path was missing from the post in 1737. Rob Lauriston, The Low Overhead Brewery (better between the joists) Vernon, British Columbia <robtrish at noif.ncp.bc.ca> Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 9 Jun 1995 07:41:24 -0400 From: hbush at pppl.gov (harry) Subject: Re: Nitrosamines Kit Anderson asks: >are there actually carcinogens called nitrosamines in >beer? And if so, in significant concentrations? Nitrosamines are an integral component of beer. They add to mouthfeel. Harry ................................................................. "Over the gums and into the tum, yummy, yum, yum!"- Capt. Pissgums .................................................................. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 9 Jun 95 09:11:03 EDT From: klo at fluent.com (Kirk L. Oseid) Subject: Mashing wheat beers Brewers: I am a longtime single-infusion ale brewer. I use a 10-gallon Gott. I am ready to try a wheat beer, but am concerned about how to run the mash. I have brewed several of the recipes out of Miller's "Brewing the Worlds Great Beers" and have always found that the results agree well with the expectations. In other words, the recipes seem to be reliable and well tested. Miller's wheat beer recipe calls for an infusion mash at 150F with an _optional_ rest at 120F. Given my experience and the fact that I use a Gott as a mash tun, I am inclined to skip the protein rest and treat it as a single-step infusion at 150. Note that this recipe calls for 70% wheat malt! On the other hand, Eric Warner writes in "German Wheat Beers" (Classic Beer Styles Series) that "only a true komikaze" would attempt to mash a wheat beer with a single-step infusion. He advocates the decoction method. Have anyone of you homebrewers been able to execute a single-step infusion with 70% wheat? I would like to use this simple method for my first attempt at wheat beer. I'm not adverse to using a decoction, but I'ld like to defer that to another brew somewhere down the line. It's summertime and I need a wheat beer soon! Practical advise is welcome. Don't bother to respond if you are a disciple of decoction and have a fanatical hatred for infusion mashers. Thanks in advance! Kirk Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 9 Jun 1995 09:16:46 EST From: "Keith Royster" <Royster at mro.ehnr.state.nc.us> Subject: jumbo slap packs / regulator mechanics In a previous issue Joseph Flemming asks about larger sized liquid yeast packs that would not require a starter. Well, last night I was reading the front of my package of WYeast. Under the list of available yeast culters is says that this package contains 1.75 fl.oz. (50mls) of liquid yeast and malt nutrients for making 5 gallon batches. I then noticed at the very bottom of the package that they also offer two yeast culture blends - "special blends concentrated for larger volumes of beer." It listed an Ale blend #1087 and Lager blend #2178 which contain 2.75 fl.oz. of liquid yeast and malt nutrients for making 10 gallon batches. So the answer is 'Yes' they do make larger packs. However, it sounds like you loose some flexibility since you only have an Ale and a Lager blend to choose from. I would also wonder if the extra ounce of (concentrated?) nutrients intended for a 10 gallons batch would even create the proper sized started that you should have for pitching into a 5 gallon batch. ****** Concerning the thread on how regulators work: I remember a discussion a few years back in my Strengths of Materials class. The professor was telling a story about how a regulator on a scuba tank failed. He described the workings of the regulator just as an earlier posting to the HBD did. There is a coiled tube inside the regulator that attempts to uncurl as the pressure in it increases, just like one of those annoying, squacking party favors. This coil is attached in such a way that when it uncoils it closes a valve, stopping the flow. You adjust the point at which this happens by turning the screw in the regulator. This is very similar to how many household AC thermostats work. The only difference is that temperature, not pressure, causes a thin metal strip to coil or uncoil (thermal contraction or expansion) which then either opens or closes a circuit to the air conditioner. +------------------------------+-------------------------+ | Keith Royster, E.I.T. | On Non-alcoholic brews: | | Environmental Engineer | The man who called it | | NC-DEHNR / Air Quality | 'near beer' was a bad | | (704) 663-1699 | judge of distance. | | Royster at mro.ehnr.state.nc.us | - Philander Johnson | +------------------------------+-------------------------+ Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 9 Jun 1995 09:17:19 -0400 From: Btalk at aol.com Subject: asbestos thread Oh No, not asbestos!!! While not directly related to beer brewing, I thought some brewers might find it useful. >From a book on winemaking that I have in a chapter that talks about filtering/clearing wine'..mix in a handful of asbestos...' No kidding, this is for real. I'll give the reference if someone is really interested. I can see it now! Toxic Wasteland Brewery. Brewed with only the most highly polluted water from the slopes of Mt Trashmore, filtered with the finest recycled asbestos. Later, Bob Talkiewicz, Binghamton, NY <btalk at aol.com> Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 9 Jun 1995 09:17:32 -0400 From: Btalk at aol.com Subject: Ice beer Someone asked about making ice beer. I can't imagine making an icebeer like those being heavily marketed now, but an authentic ice beer had always fascinated me. Last fall I made a Barleywine out of some 'old' extracts. I didn't particularly like it, so I just let it sit/age in the keg. This past January the outdoor temp was headed sub zero for a few days. Figuring I had nothing to lose, I stuck the keg of Barleywine outside. 4 days later I siphoned off the liquid part. Wowee! this stuff made my eyes water when I smelled it! The 'final ' gravity ended up at 1.070, up 20 points after freezing. This brew is getting better as it ages. Now it sorta tastes like liquid licorice. A little goes a long ways. Later, Bob Talkiewicz, Binghamton, NY <btalk at aol.com> Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 09 Jun 95 10:12:00 PDT From: Ray Robert <rayr at bah.com> Subject: Yeast Farming and Marmite Hello Brew Collective, I wanted to ask the masses what their thoughts were on the idea of bottling the yeast "sediment" at the bottom of the primary fermenter for use at a later date. I don't normally brew back to back batches where I would be able to rack new wort directly in with the old (sleeping) yeast. Can this be done easily and successfully? Also, I ran across a product called "Marmite" in the Bread yeast section of my local grocery store. It is a yeast liquid extract for spreading on crackers, sandwiches, and the like. Are there any hard-core yeast aficionados who have eaten this stuff. (Sounds pretty disgusting IMHO). Robert Ray rayr at bah.com "Hand-crafted brews from Robert's Beer Closet" Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 9 Jun 1995 10:31:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Steven Lichtenberg <steve at Pentagon-EMH6.army.mil> Subject: 10 Gallon batches Jim Dipalma (dipalma at sky.com) wrote about his reasons for going to 10 gallon batches. I agree wholeheartedly. the difference in the amount of work in producing 10 gallons as opposed to 5 gallon batches is almost nil. Yes there is some extra time in grinding the grain and as Jim stated it does take a little longer to sparge etc. but the benefits are too great to pass up. Instead of having to brew once a month I brew about every other month (good and bad points to his) My wife doesn't have to give me too much hassle about taking up all my time on my hobbies and While yes I can brew nad spend time with the kids, this way I don't have o give up all my time on brewing and can play with the kids more. As an additional benefit, I get less hassles about going to club meetings since I am not devoting even more time to my hobby. Of course, I sytill only go to aabout every third meeting but I am working on this. I would like to be able to brew more often but with two preschoolers and a wife..... Hope this gets someone going on bigger batches as it really is less problem. **** ---- "There's always time for a Homebrew!" ---- **** C|~~| ------------ Steven Lichtenberg --------------- C|~~| `--' ------ steve at pentagon-emh6.army.mil --------- `--' -- Programmer/Analyst - Datanamics, Inc. -- -- Gaithersburg, MD & The Pentagon --- ----------------------------------- ENJOY LIFE--THIS IS NOT A REHEARSAL Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 9 Jun 1995 10:00:41 -0500 From: Russell Mast <rmast at fnbc.com> Subject: All-Grain Vs. 10-gallon > From: dipalma at sky.com (Jim Dipalma) > Subject: 10 gal batches, 1098 yeast > There's another way of looking at this. I can devote a Saturday to brewing, > and get 5 gallons of beer. Or, I can devote a Saturday to brewing, and get > 10 gallons of beer. A classic no-brainer, IMHO. Obviously, we're having about 8 different discussions here. The originator of this thread said that he was not going to brew all-grain batches because he didn't have the time. Someone said that you could save time/gallon by brewing in larger batches. Duh. The problem is not time/gallon, it's getting that amount of time in a row. Some people can't afford to devote an entire Saturday to brewing, regardless of HOW much beer they get from it. Then, you have people like me, who _can_ devote an entire Saturday to brewing but don't have the money and space for the equipment required for 10 gallon batches. I'm moving from a two-flat (it's a Chicago thing, don't ask) to a large apartment building, uh, tomorrow. It's a sqeeze accomidating my 5 gallon batch equipment there. So, I'll continue to brew 5-gallon batches of all-grain, instead of 10-gallon batches of extract, or whatever the hell is going on here. Also, why would anyone brew a 10-gallon batch when they could brew a 15 gallno batch? (What's wrong with you people???) Of course, I'm just an all-grain brewer, so what would I know? -R Return to table of contents
Date: 09 Jun 1995 12:02:00 -0500 (EST) From: Lance Stronk <S29033%22681 at utrcgw.utc.com> Subject: Pressure Regulators I have been following the thread on pressure and temp and the like. Someone asked if anyone knew anything about pressure regulators and I referenced notes from a process control class that I had taken given by an instructor named Bela Liptak. He had written an article on pressure regulators and it can be found in a professional publication, Chemical Engineering, dated April 13, 1987, pp 69 - 76. I am sure there are other articles and texts around that describe pressure regulators but this is one I happen to have on had at this moment. Some excerpts from the article; "The regulator is a complete, self-contained, feedback control loop with only proportional-control action."..."The [inlet] pressure acts on the diaphram, which moves the valve plug (by compressing the spring). The initial spring compression sets the pressure at which the valve begins to open. For each pressure on the diaphragm, there is a corresponding seat position or valve opening." The article goes on to say that the diaphragm acts as the brains of the regulator by acting as feedback, error detector and actuator. _______ <spring adjustment or reg set point adjustment - _ - _ <spring - _ ___________ - _ _ - <Diaphragm | --- <regulated pressure \__P_____ In______|____| This is very crude ascii art so if you want a better picture, consult the article or other text. The "P" denoted in the picture is the plug which unseats to let the "IN" inlet pressure into the diaphragm. There are equations in the article as well but will not include them in this already confusing post. Hope what is here helps. As Steve Martin said once, "This man was teaching this woman to sing.... from her DIAPHRAGM! I mean...it would take YEARS to learn something like that wouldn't it????" ;.) Lance Stronk LStronk at Sikorsky.com Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 9 Jun 1995 10:22:57 -0600 From: rhanson at nmsu.edu (Robin Hanson) Subject: re:Liquid Yeast Bag Expanded Too Much Liquid Yeast Bag Expanded Too Much Jim wrote in that he had had this problem, I had the same thing happen to me over the weekend with a bag of Brett. yeast. I added it to the wort with success. Robin Robin Hanson Rhanson at nmsu.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 9 Jun 1995 13:49:01 -0400 From: dharsh at alpha.che.uc.edu (Dr. David C. Harsh) Subject: CO2/How regulators work/In&out of the fridge There's been alot of "discussion" about regulators. Here's by $0.02. 1) Pressure variation throughout a kegging system. If you have a regulator set at 10 psi, the keg and the lines will all be at 10 psi as long as you are not dispensing. The static pressure will be the same - the pressure drop along the lines only matters for flowing systems [ok, there is a pressure drop, but for a non-flowing system it is negligible]. It doesn't matter if the cylinder is inside or outside of the fridge. Of course, as some of us have noticed, the pressure setting decreases when you put the cylinder in the fridge because of how the regulator works (more later). So, if your regulator is set at 10 psi, that will be the pressure in the keg. Your carbonation/volumes of CO2 is still a function of the pressure and temperature of the keg, not the cylinder. 2) How does a regulator work? First, the reference pressure. The reading you see on your pressure outlet is the actual pressure in the lines minus atmospheric pressure. So if there are large pressure changes (i.e. drinking keg beer during a hurricane), the reading "10 psi" will be less than when a high pressure system is in the area. Maybe the actual keg pressure shouldn't be your first concern under such conditions ;) Normally, the difference between high and low pressure systems is on the order of 0.3 psi, so I don't think you have a lot to worry about. The mechanism of a regulator? Well, the picture says alot and I apologize for my lame ascii graphics. Essentially, there is an orifice with a spring-loaded valve that is held shut under normal conditions. The spring is on the high pressure side and pushes the seat into the orifice. On the low pressure side is a diaphragm that the valve seat is attached to. The diaphragm is attached to an adjusting screw via another spring - moving the adjusting screw in presses on the spring which presses on the diaphragm which presses on the valve seat which opens against the force of the spring on the high pressure side. Air can now flow through the opening and the downstream pressure is determined by the size of the orifice and the upstream pressure. As downstream pressure increases, the force against the diaphragm counteracts the adjustment screw/spring force and the valve closes. [Ref: The Chemist's Ready Reference Handbook, G.J. Shugar and J.A. Dean, McGraw-Hill, 1990, p. 32.1] One last point - why does putting the cylinder in the fridge affect your pressure? As many have pointed out, the cylinder pressure is affected by temperature, so when the cylinder cools, the upstream pressure decreases and there is less pressure drop across the orifice. Thus, pressure decreases. AAA <---This is what you adjust -everything AAA else is inside the case AAA AAA S S S S DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD X Note: the valve & opening is conical _____/X\______ | X | X - valve seat assembly | X | S - Springs | XXX | D - Diaphragm | XXX | A - Adjustment screw | XXX | | S |____ | S ____------> to high pressure air | S | | S | =============== Sorry for the bandwidth. Hope this helps. Dave ____________________________________________________________ | Dave Harsh | | Newsletter Editor for the Bloatarian Brewing League | | Opus Lost Brewery North Avondale, Ohio | |__________________________________________________________| Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 08 Jun 1995 17:02:00 -0800 (PST) From: David Allison 225-5764 <ALLISON.DAVID at a1gw.gene.com> Subject: Publist/Seattle/SFBayArea/KingKooker To Dave Draper or others who may get peeved when folks ask about pubs (or the like) in an area they plan to visit -- Although Publists are available through Stanford Archives and WWW sites, they say nothing with regards to recommendations of people who may live in (or know) an area. Just because a pub is listed somewhere doesn't mean it is worth visiting or they may be so many (like here in the SF Bay Area or the Pacific NW) that a person may want just to know the "don't miss" ones from knowledgeable folks on the HBD. For example, I am going to the Seattle Area at the end of August, so I did a "Seattle" search from Spencer's WWW site (BTW, thanks Spencer) and got a list of names from HBD folk from the area (or know about the area). I e-mailed them personally and most got back to me regarding my query. (people there are proud of what they have to offer in the great NW -- as they should be) But that doesn't mean that everyone has this capability, nor does that mean that there are not people (like myself) who may also be interested in other peoples queries regarding places to go. Hell, I even find out about places in the SF Bay Area that I may not yet know about (like the one on mentioned recently on Broadway). Which leads me to... Tim Lawson's query on pubs in SF -- don't forget the Anchor Tour (a must) and also check out the Toronado on Haight Street (at Fillmore). Also... if anyone has info on "must see or go or do" places in the Seattle Area please let me know either by e-mail or here on this _public_ forum. Not that there shouldn't be a general net-etiquette, I agree with Dominick on his suggestions. We cannot limit people to only ask and answer the questions that are of personal interest. As long as they are about beer or beer related subjects, it's all fair game. Personally, I just scroll through the onesthat I am not interested in reading (ie. Corona clones, mercury threads, malt extract recipes). BTW (for those of you who care), I just saw 170K BTU King Kookers at the Price Club/Costco for $49. These are the adjustable types with a 32 hole burner and a ring on the top which has the same diameter as a Sanke keg. - David (allison2 at gene.com) Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 9 Jun 1995 15:40:43 -0400 From: mel at genrad.com (Mark E. Lubben) Subject: Alt questions Does anyone know what hops are traditional for Alts made in Germany? Also, is Schnell Brewing "Schmaltz's Alt" similar to GERMAN Alts hops-wise? In the literature I see recommendations: Charlie P. Northern Brewer Miller aromatic (not very specific huh?) Moshner "Spalt is traditional" The reason for my question is cause the taste of the Schnell Alt didn't match my impressions of Spalt or Northern Brewer. I would associate the vaguely "1950s Pabst" character I tasted with descriptions of Clusters. Whoa! the guy from the next cubical was just telling someone else about the Harpoon Fest in Boston this weekend and showed me a flyer with their new Alt. Lo and behold, it lists CLUSTERS Hallertaur and German Spalt. hmmm..... I know I am running into my AI-robot quota of questions, but I am thinking about using the low attenuation Wyeast 1338 Alt yeast in a spiced Christmas beer (nutmeg & corriander). Anyone got experience with 1338 and spices? TIA, Mark Lubben (mel at genrad.com) ==== Styles Styles Styles -- Is it still an Alt at 8'L and with spices? ;-) Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 9 Jun 1995 15:46:12 EST From: robert_bendesky at Merck.Com (Robert Bendesky) Subject: RE: Homebrew Club Beer Related Activities Mark DeWeese asks: >Do any of you know of other fun beer related activities >that would be easy to organize and inexpensive to fund? Sam & Max, in _Freelance Police #1_ offer the following: Let's Play Fizzball! It's the wacky new game that's filling hospital concussion and laceration wards across the nation! And it's so easy to play. o Equipment Get yourself a few cases of that cheap, nasty beer that's usually found stacked and on sale near the checkout counter right before National Drinking Holidays. o The Pitcher Ready to play? Shake the can vigorously. Get about 15 feet from the batter to pitch. A real easy underhand pitch is used. You're not trying to strike the guy out. You want to see the can blow up, right? Right! o The Batter You'll need an axe or mattock handle or some primitive looking branch. Think Atomic War-Club size! Yeah! Swing like a mad ape. The object is to hack through the soft middle and split the can wide open! Yahoo! Some fun, eh? o Fielders What are you gonna do, try to catch a shredded metal can? What are you, stupid? == Reference Section == Various Fizzball Phenomena == Create your own! The Pinwheel - This is a great Fizzball effect! The can is smacked open and rotates in the air forever, drenching everything in a 20 foot radius with beautiful ribbons of foam! The War of the Worlds - Picture the top of the batted can, snapped free, spinning and gaining altitude like a hovering alien craft! Wow! The Cannonball - This one is often frustrating. The swelling can is bashed over the fence, unruptured and out of reach. But you might want to keep an eye on the kids next door when they try to open it. Hee Hee! The Time Bomb - A tiny rupture starts a fine spray-leak as the spinning can skitters across the ground. Get it back in play before it's a dud! Have fun and be sure to wear protective head gear (but only if you're some kind of Goddam pansy), and maybe next time we'll tell you about 8-track tape skeet shoot. Return to table of contents
Date: 9 Jun 95 09:10 GMT From: Eric R Hale <Eric.R.Hale at naperville.nalco.infonet.com> Subject: STOUT - Cherry pits and honey I'm about to start a stout. I'm using glenn brew irish stout malt extract (as the all-grainer's cringe) and steep some grains I got hanging around (klagges, choc malt, and roasted barley). I've made a few raspberry beers. I've never used cherries. I plant to add them to the secondary fermentation. Should I leave the pits in or out? Is three pounds enough for a 5 gal batch? It seems that if you pit them, you'd get more utilization. But some people seem to think the pits do some good. I also have a couple a pints of honey that are looking pretty funky. I was going to toss them into the wort. I've searched everywhere and haven't found a recipe where someone used honey in a stout. I've seen it in porters, e.g., J(tm)i(tm)m(tm) K(tm)o(tm)c(tm)h(tm)'(tm)s(tm) H(tm)o(tm)n(tm)e(tm)y(tm) P(tm)o(tm)r(tm)t(tm)e(tm)r(tm). Does anyone have experience with it in stouts? Comments? When I put the batch together, I'll post the recipe. Best brewing, Eric Hale Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 09 Jun 95 16:33:36 EST From: "Douglas Rasor" <drasor at HOFFMAN-ISSAA2.ARMY.MIL> Subject: Brewing Time Since I am the one who started this thread, let me clarify what I meant by 4 hours of time for an extract batch. To sanitize my implements, boil the wort and transfer to the primary and clean-up takes about 1.5 hours. There is alot of idle time waiting for the water to boil (I crack my specialty grain during this time lag) and in the boil itself. The other time is cleaning the bottles, haven't gone to kegs yet but fathers day is soon (wishful thinking), sanitizing bottles, filling bottles, capping bottles and labeling bottles. If I took out the bottle part, it would take about 2 hours to brew and keg my 5 gallon batch. I don't know much about the all-grain process, so I'll show my ignorance. I cannot believe that with preparation (i.e. sanitation, set-up of equipment, etc), boiling, sparging, transferring to a fermenting vessel,transferring to a secondary, transferring to a bottling container, cleaning up and stowing the equipment away, then cleaning bottles, sanitizing bottles, filling bottles, capping bottles and finally labeling bottles that it only takes 5.5 to 8 hours. BTW Is it unhealthy to keep pictures of Mecury around the house? Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 09 Jun 1995 16:09:50 -0600 From: 00bkpickeril at bsuvc.bsu.edu (Brian Pickerill) Subject: Grain/Extract storage Hi, I've been wondering about storage of grain and extracts for awhile. I've checked the faqs, but don't find anything on it. One thing that got me wondering about it again (besides some grain I have in 1 lb plastic bags in the fridge) was a comment from Al Korzonas in #1748: >I would recommend >using the extract within 6 months of the packaging date unless it is kept >refrigerated, and even then, I'd say about a year, max. I thought that extract would keep longer than that. I would guess that dry would keep a lot longer than liquid. Is the main concern the color of the extract, or will it actually get a STALE taste? About grains, I know they keep longer when not milled, but how long is too long to use? I bought the grains at a discount, so I guess they were a bit old to begin with. I assume the refrigeration might help keep them fresh? Any ideas? Thanks in advance, and happy brewing, - --Brian K. Pickerill <00bkpickeril at bsuvc.bsu.edu> Muncie, IN Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 9 Jun 1995 14:53:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeremy Ballard Bergsman <jeremybb at leland.Stanford.EDU> Subject: How does a regulator work? eamonn at chinook.physics.utoronto.ca (Eamonn McKernan) writes (in his post correcting Larry's ideas on pressure): > I don't wish this to seem like I'm flaming Larry, I'm just trying to > correct some mistakes which many people are guilty of making. It seems > truly surprising that noone (myself included) on the HBD knows how > pressure regulators work! > Anyone? > Eamonn McKernan > eamonn at atmosp.physics.utoronto.ca I have taken apart two regulators recently and have built one based on what I learned (this was a very low pressure regulator to reduce the pressure of natural gas, .5psi --> ~.2psi), so I think I have it mostly figured it out. The idea is simple. The regulator has a high pressure side and a low pressure side. Between them is an opening that can be closed by a "door." The position of this door is biased by a spring. The force of this spring on the door (tending to close it) is what you adjust when you adjust the regulator. The force divided by the area of the door (a pressure) is the difference in pressure between the low and the high pressure sizes. In the regulators we use for CO2, the "door" is about 1/16 of an inch in diameter. If the tank pressure is 815 psi and you want to output 15 psi, you need 800 psi on the door (over and above the force needed to seal it -- this turned out to be the biggest surprise for me when I designed mine). For this door the area is 3E-3 square inches so the spring needs to have a force of 2.4 pounds. When the pressure on the low side is 15 psi, the net force on the door is 0 (relative to the sealing pressure) and no gas flows. When the pressure on the low side drops, the door opens and gas flows. If the pressure on the low side rises, the door is shut more tightly -- it is a stable system. Note that if I am correct, the setting of a regulator does not result in a certain pressure being output under all conditions. The output pressure depends on many factors. Practically these are ignored and the spring is tightened or loosened until the correct output pressure is reached as judged by a gauge on the low pressure side. P.S. I'm sorry I flamed Larry so hard, but his sureness that he was right got under my skin. Jeremy Bergsman jeremybb at leland.stanford.edu http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~jeremybb/index.html Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 9 Jun 95 17:12:25 CDT From: Phil=Meyers%TS=DeskCase%CS=Hou at bangate.compaq.com Subject: Ideal gas law. Please ignore my prior failed logic on the gas pressure issue. Here's a better explaination that comes from a good friend who shall remain nameless. I feel he is qualified as he is completing his PhD in Physics.... "So, PV=nRT. V is a constant, and P is the same on both sides, so if T is lowered on one side, n will rise. In other words, gas will flow from the warm container to the cold container until the pressures equalize." The failure in my logic was I was assuming a constant density which is not the case. Phil The following was included as an attachement. Please use UUDECODE to retrieve it. The original file name was 'ATTRIBS.BND'. begin 666 ATTRIBS.BND M0F5Y;VYD(%!A8VME9"!!='1R:6)U=&5S`$%45%))*```````261E86P at 9V%S M(&QA=RX````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M`%!(24P at 345915)3```````````````````````````````````````````` M``````````````````````````````````!Q:2PV*S=207%J```````````` M````````0F5Y;VYD(%!R;W!R:65T87)Y($1A=&$:`````!$`````````!`` at M`P``````````````````````````5&5X=!$"4&QE87-E(&EG;F]R92!M>2!P M<FEO<B!F86EL960 at ;&]G:6, at ;VX at =&AE(&=A<R!P<F5S<W5R92!I<W-U92X at M($AE<F4G<R!A(&)E='1E<B!E>'!L86EN871I;VX at =&AA="!C;VUE<R!F<F]M M(&$ at 9V]O9"!F<FEE;F0 at =VAO('-H86QL(')E;6%I;B!N86UE;&5S<RX at ($D at M9F5E;"!H92!I<R!Q=6%L:69I960 at 87, at :&4 at :7, at 8V]M<&QE=&EN9R!H:7, at M4&A$(&EN(%!H>7-I8W,N+BXN" at HB4V\L(%!6/6Y25"X at (%8 at :7, at 82!C;VYS M=&%N="P at 86YD(%` at :7, at =&AE('-A;64 at ;VX at 8F]T:"!S:61E<RP at <V\ at :68 at M5"!I<PIL;W=E<F5D(&]N(&]N92!S:61E+"!N('=I;&P at <FES92X at ($EN(&]T M:&5R('=O<F1S+"!G87, at =VEL;"!F;&]W(&9R;VT at =&AE(`IW87)M(&-O;G1A M:6YE<B!T;R!T:&4 at 8V]L9"!C;VYT86EN97( at =6YT:6P at =&AE('!R97-S=7)E M<R!E<75A;&EZ92XB" at I4:&4 at 9F%I;'5R92!I;B!M>2!L;V=I8R!W87, at 22!W M87, at 87-S=6UI;F< at 82!C;VYS=&%N="!D96YS:71Y('=H:6-H(&ES(&YO="!T M:&4 at 8V%S92X at " at H*4&AI;`D!`P`1` at (!` at `"````" at `!``$``0#;```````` M``(`W``V`0```````#C_````````D`$``````````$U3(%-A;G, at 4V5R:68` M`````````````````````````````$S_````````D`$``````````$-O=7)I M97( at 3F5W``````````````````````````````````$``0#9``$`V at #:``$` MVP`E`0$`) at %P`0$`<0&T`0$`M0&U`0$`M at $+` at $`#`(,` at $`#0(-` at $`# at (2 M` at ```````````````&0``:0!`4 at #`>P$`9`&`30(`= at )`7P+`2`-`<0.`6 at 0 /`0P2`;`3`505`? at 6+P`` ` end Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 9 Jun 1995 19:01:26 -0400 From: cstrick at iu.net (Chris Strickland) Subject: Hops Tea I'm trying to make the clean up easier, so I'm wondering if anyone has tried this. Boiling your hops separately, then straining the hop tea into your beer at the end of the boil. Any ideas, suggestions? - -------------- Chris Strickland cstrick at iu.net Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 9 Jun 1995 20:36:44 -0400 From: TPuskar at aol.com Subject: Rye beer Earlier this week I had the pleasure of visiting the Spanish Peaks brewpub in Boseman MT. A number of their beers are really good including their signature Black Dog. I really enjoyed a rye beer they were serving this week as a specialty beer. The brewer wasn't there that night and none of the waitresses knew any details of the beer. Therefore I come to the ultimate source of information on beer recipes--the HBD. Does anyone have a recipe for a rye beer? Anyone know anything about the Spanish Peaks rye beer specifically? Thanks Tom Puskar Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 9 Jun 1995 21:22:37 -0400 From: dflagg at agate.net Subject: Best aging times for different types of brew??? > Kenn Goodrow writes: > I like to drink my beer and want to know the earliest > times I "can" do it. What does the practical wisdom have to > say? When I bottle I like to eke out 51 or 52 bottles; that is 3 or 4 loose bottles over two full cases. After bottling I grit my teeth, try reeeal hard, and wait a week. At that time I pop a loose bottle and try it. If it is good (and it ususlly is not) I start in on the rest. If it is not, I grit some more teeth, wait another week, then try another bottle...etc. I start drinking when it starts to taste good. I've found that if you wait until the whole batch is in perfect tip-top form (usually 1-1.5 months for me) you cannot consume the beer before it begins its downhill slide. Also, the expectation that the next bottle is going to be better than the last is one of the joys of homebrewing. ************************************************************ Doug Flagg | "A Homebrew a day... dflagg at orono.sdi.agate.net | Keeps the Worries away!" ************************************************************ Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 9 Jun 1995 22:05:50 -0400 From: RCBEER at aol.com Subject: Kegs and airtravel I would like some tips on transporting homebrew kegs on commercial airlines. Do they need to be boxed or are they OK as is? Are there any regulations that I need to know in order to avoild problems at the airport? Thanks, If you have any suggestions or experiences, E-mail me Rcbeer at aol.com Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 9 Jun 1995 21:44:12 -0700 From: ad339 at freenet.unbc.edu (Edwin Thompson) Subject: Malt extract syrup vs dry I'm just getting back into homebrewing and would appreciate any help you could give me. There's a recipe I'd like to try but it calls for dry malt extract, which is difficult for me to get in large quantities. Does anyone know what the equivalent of a pound of dry pale malt extract is when using the syrup, or have a formula for working it out? Again any information would be helpful Thanks Ed. - -- Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1755, 06/12/95