HOMEBREW Digest #1791 Wed 26 July 1995

Digest #1790 Digest #1792

		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor

  Brewing Questionnaire Author Responds (Gaspar James M)
  Yeast Cake (CINIBUMK)
  Inlet Filters for aeration (Chuck and Grace Burkins)
  RE: Brass, FDA vs. AOB ("Palmer.John")
  cloudy blowoff hoses ("mike spinelli")
  God help us in this burning hell! (Kenneth K Goodrow)
  Lagering (Imakebeer)
  Competition Announcement (Stephen T. McKenna)
  brewery job (MicahM1269)
  Dry Hop Impaction (Stan Gregory)
  Yeast sediment/Laaglander staters/Banana Weizen (Philip Gravel)
  Re: Killer oatmeal #3 ("Andrew D. Kailhofer")
  Homebrewing and Septic Systems (Jim Grady)
  Homebrewed Septic Systems (Curt Freeman)
  DWC Belgian Pilsner Malt (Phil Brushaber)
  Re: Over carbonation problems (david lawrence shea)
  Alt with Wyeast European Ale (1338) and Irish Ale (Keith Frank)
  IPA with two yeasts / Bitter from same batch (Keith Frank)
  Sanitation tip for racking canes (Keith Frank)
  Bulk purchase of Durst or Ireks Pils Malt (Shane Docherty)
  Bulk purchases of Durst or Ireks (Shane Docherty)
  When to stop sparging ("Lee A. Menegoni")
  Re: Re: Ginger wit recipe (Jeff Renner)
  Cherries. (Russell Mast)
  bottle conditioning lagers /RIMS (Eamonn McKernan)
  Wet and Dry Flaming (Tim Laatsch)
  Motorizing Malt Mills (GRMarkel)
  keg question. (MSMHRN01.RADAMS01)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 14:46:09 -0500 From: Gaspar James M <jmg7730 at usl.edu> Subject: Brewing Questionnaire Author Responds I am responding to the criticisms of my brewing questionnaire that I believe stem from a lack of understanding of the architectural design process. The origin of an architectural thesis is an idea, a point of view, a passion. This 'nugget' is then developed into a thesis topic, not a building type. It is at this point in the design process that thesis research truly begins, the topic being the lens through which the research is focused. For architecture to be successful it must take into consideration a multitude of variables, one of most important being the people who will actually use the building. Without an understanding of the potential users, a building is nothing more than a shell, void of the richness and celebration that is necessary to architecture. Unfortunately, our world is filled with shells. The vast majority of projects that architects are hired to design are business related: corporate, institutional, medical, governmental, small business. In the economic reality of business today any client who hires an architect will demand evidence of quantifiable claims submitted in a design proposal. If a proposal states that office workers will be more productive because of Design A versus Design B the architect must be able to substantiate this position. One method of research, among many, that will allow an architect to substantiate a position is the use of a questionnaire. It must be pointed out that responses to a questionnaire are small, but important pieces of information necessary in the development of a design project. A successful architectural design in the 'real world' is the result of the efforts of individuals from a variety of professions: architects, landscape architects, engineers, sociologists, marketing analysts, contractors, electricians, plumbers, carpenters, steel workers and so on. I do not have a team to assist me in my research. As an architecture student the success or failure of my thesis is my responsibility alone. I posted my brewing questionnaire in an effort to develop a picture of the brewing community. With your responses I hope to develop an understanding that I might not otherwise be privileged to, and therefore, allow my design to truly represent the needs of its intended users. This was my first public release of a questionnaire. Of course there are flaws and I expected criticism - that is part of the learning process. What I did not expect was a lack of understanding in the purpose of the questionnaire. There is an obvious lack of understanding of what an architect does for his/her fee and how the design process works. Any confusion that my brewing questionnaire has caused is unintentional. In no way have I misrepresented myself, who I am, the purpose of the questionnaire or how the responses will be handled. The reason I asked if a responder would be willing to complete a second questionnaire is that, as my research continues and my understanding deepens, the formulation of a building type will emerge. To give the exact building type I have in mind at this point in time could skew responses to the brewing questionnaire. I apologize if I inadvertently offended some of you with this brewing questionnaire. That was not my intention. James Gaspar jmg7730 at usl.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 24 JUL 95 16:0:9 EST From: CINIBUMK at ml.wpafb.af.mil Subject: Yeast Cake I just racked my latest batch of IPA from the primary fermenter and found that the yeast cake which is usually a smooth dense layer looks more like a rather loosely packed layer of browned hamburger (for lack of a better description). The only difference from what I have done in the past was to use darker crystal malt (120L instead of 60L) and Irish moss. The fermentation temperature was 70-72F, not the usual 66-68F. Yeast is Wyeast #1968. Anyone have any ideas? Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 16:08:57 +0059 (EDT) From: Chuck and Grace Burkins <burkins at world.std.com> Subject: Inlet Filters for aeration In HBD 1788, Bryan P. Dawe said >Also, I am planning to use a 5 or 10 micron inlet filter as an airstone >in my aeration system. Previous postings on this forum indicate that these >are available from RAININ (1-800-4RAININ). I will give these people a >call at some point, but I do not have a catalog. If there is someone >in the HBD Collective with a current catalog that can make a recommendation >and provide a catalog number and price Bryan: I use these inlet filters that you describe all the time on HPLC's (an instument found in many protein chem labs). I cannot attest to their utility in you application. I checked catalogs for Rainin and Upchurch (800-359-3460). At work I use the Upchurch part at $13 for Part No. A302. Rainin does however have a filter which is claimed to have a stepped connector capable of connecting to 1/16, .085, or .119 inch teflon tubing. ( Part No. 05-0141, $ 12.35). Both of these filters are stainless steel and have a porosity of 10um. I could only guess at the optimal porsity. None of the filters of this type that I've seen would be small enough to stop bacteria, although the size of the bubbles formed might be of some importance. Rainin also sells a filter much like these in 2um and 5um. Hope this helps. Chuck Burkins burkins at world.std.com Return to table of contents
Date: 24 Jul 1995 14:16:36 U From: "Palmer.John" <palmer at ssdgwy.mdc.com> Subject: RE: Brass, FDA vs. AOB Dion Wrote: >OK, John, so how do you react to the blurb in BT about the FDA >"outlawing" brass in contact with food pH < 7 ? (page 12, v3n4). Is >this just another one of the FDAs, "Well, we're not sure so we'll just >disallow it" cover their ass schemes?? >I use a small number of brass fittings and have always basically >agreed with you in regard to this issue. I still am not going to >worry, but maybe the FDA has some "proof" behind their "guidelines". >What is really crazy is that this applies to "copper and copper >alloys". I can maybe understand a cause for concern of lead in brass, >but pure copper??? As a matter of fact: I had been contacted by Jim Neighbors of AOB (not Gomer) to help prepare an Alert and information sheet that was sent out to many concerned parties. I provided references from the ASM Metals Handbook explaining under what conditions Copper and Copper alloys would be dissolved by acidic solutions. The upshot is that beer does not corrode copper or copper alloys by itself. It can act as a electrolyte for galvanic corrosion, but so can tap water. The reason for the FDA Alert is that copper can cause heavy metal poisoning when dissolved into food or water and ingested in mass quantities. So will lead, cadmium, and lots of other metals. This IS a case where the FDA has taken a legitimate concern and expanded it to an illegitimate solution. They would better serve the public by explaining that low pH foods and liquid will dissolve copper under oxidizing conditions. If you were to whip beer full of air, then it would dissolve copper. (Matter of fact, if you were to oxygenate your wort in a copper vessel, you would dissolve a lot more than normal beer would.) The same holds true for other acidic foods. Beer that has not been aerated or beer that is post fermentation carbonated will not significantly corrode copper (no oxygen). By the way, for those of you who are relatively new to the HBD, brass does contain lead as an aid to machining properties. During the machining of brass, the lead becomes smeared over the machined surface, where it can be gradually dissolved by acidic solutions. We are talking about minute amounts (micrograms) smeared over small surface areas. I do not consider it a threat. Nevertheless, it can be removed by a soak for 10-15 minutes in grocery store white distilled vinegar and common hydrogen peroxide, mixed in a 2:1 volume ratio of vinegar to peroxide. The brass will turn a buttery gold color as it cleans. If the solution turns green, then you have gone a bit too long and the copper is starting to dissolve. John J. Palmer - Metallurgist for MDA-SSD M&P johnj at primenet.com Huntington Beach, California Palmer House Brewery and Smithy - www.primenet.com/~johnj/ Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 17:21:26 -0400 (EDT) From: "mike spinelli" <paa3983 at dpsc.dla.mil> Subject: cloudy blowoff hoses Does anybody know how to clear up the cloudiness in my 1" blowoff hoses. Is it caused from soaking them in Bleach solution? Thanks, Mike Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 17:01:31 -0500 (CDT) From: Kenneth K Goodrow <goodrow at orion.etsu.edu> Subject: God help us in this burning hell! As eagerly as you reached this message, thinking it was another exciting religion post, it is not. Sorry. Rather, I am writing on the burning hell of East Texas in which I currently reside -- specifically, the heat wave which is holding up my brewing. Yesterday I had a batch planned, but alas, 100 degree weather. My quandry is this, I usually don't use air-conditioning even in such heinous conditions, but I am wondering if anyone has input on how to brew in the heat -- how to get around it, etc. I don't have an extra refrigerator for lagering. I have heard of those belts that can be wrapped around fermenters to keep them at a steady 78 degrees (anybody have any results on these buggers?). I don't want to give in to the fact that I might have to wait another month for things to cool down, but will that be the case? I'm not nuts for abstaining from air-conditioning, just a grad. student with a wife and two cats. Maybe I can sell my brew for donations and make enough to afford more AC. Anyone done that before? Other ideas? Gracias, Kenn Thought for the day: "Nothing changes until it becomes what it is" --Fritz Perls Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 19:54:49 -0400 From: Imakebeer at aol.com Subject: Lagering After two years of making ales, I've decided to try to make a lager. I have a cold box and can regulate to temp. down to 45 deg F. The only thing I am unsure about is pitching the yeast. I plan on using the Wyeast liquid Lager blend and making a starter. I am assuming I should follow the directions on the package of yeast and pop the inner sack and let it rest at room temp (70 deg) until it swells. Once I make my starter and pitch my yeast, should I cool the starter to 45 deg or let it sit at room temp? If I shouldn't cool my starter, should I pitch at 70 deg and try to cool my wort to 45 deg? My only concern then is cooling the wort too rapidly and shocking the yeast. If anybody has experience making lagers and can give me a step by step procedure on yeast pitching, from package to fermenter, I would much appreciate it. All the references I have only give fermentation temps, but no procedures on how to get the yeast going. Private e-mail is fine, I'll post a summary. TIA, Robert Hops Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 95 19:59:51 CDT From: stmckenna at amoco.com (Stephen T. McKenna) Subject: Competition Announcement The Urban Knaves of Grain and Famous Liquors present the Famous Urban Knaves of Grain Homebrew Competition An AHA-sanctioned competition Saturday October 21, 1995 Famous Liquors 105 E. Roosevelt Rd. Lombard, IL 60148 All styles are welcome. The organizers reserve the right to combine some categories if there are insufficient entries. Judging will be according to AHA style guidelines and will be conducted by BJCP-certified judges and apprentices. Ribbons will be awarded for 1st, 2nd, and 3rd place in each category judged; and for 1st, 2nd, and 3rd best of show. Entries are due between October 9 and October 17 to Famous Liquors. Entries may be delivered in person or shipped (UPS). Please package all entries securely and indicate "Famous/UKG Competition" on the outside. The entry fee is $5 per entry (if entering 1 to 3 beers) or $4 per entry (if entering 4 or more beers). Checks should be made payable to "Urban Knaves of Grain". Two 10-14 oz. bottles are required per entry. Bottles must be...OK, OK, you know the rules. Entry forms and style guidelines will be available at Famous Liquors or by contacting Steve McKenna (708-961-7846, stmckenna at amoco.com) or Frank Dobner (708-979-5124, fjdobner at intgp1.att.com. Please refer questions to Steve or Frank, not Famous Liquors. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 21:15:05 -0400 From: MicahM1269 at aol.com Subject: brewery job I have an opening for a assistant brewer. Long hours, hard work, reasonable pay. Angels Camp, Northern Ca. Serious inquirys only e-mail or 209 736 2739 6- 2:30 PDT micah millspaw Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 95 22:24:02 EDT From: cn1428 at coastalnet.com (Stan Gregory) Subject: Dry Hop Impaction First post. Made an all grain English pale ale (bitter) and decided to dry hop with a 0.5 oz E. Kent Golding plug. First mistake was adding the plug to the primary before fermentation had settled down. The aroma was scrubbed by CO2 for the most part. Later racked to secondary and probably should have dry hopped then. I didn't. Decided to add a plug of K. Golding to the Corney at kegging, having read that hops float. Big mistake. They don't all float, and small hop particles impacted the out flow. Tried back flushing the beverage side with CO2, thinking that would clear the obstruction. It didn't. Finally ended up attaching a copper Chore Boy scrub pad to the siphon tube and transferred the beer to another keg. Is there a good way to dry hop in a keg or should it go in the secondary? Thanks for any experience and advise. Stan Gregory Jacksonville, NC cn1428 at coastalnet.com Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 95 21:39 CDT From: pgravel at mcs.com (Philip Gravel) Subject: Yeast sediment/Laaglander staters/Banana Weizen ===> Kitty O'Neil asks about clearing yeast sediment: >I'd like to hear some ideas for clearing yeast sediment from finished beer. >I've left ale in secondary for 3 weeks or so which has cleared 90% of the >sediment, but I still get a little in the bottom of my bottles. Is it >possible to end up with no sediment? Not if you bottle condition, i.e. prime and let the yeast carbonate the beer. To get no sediment, you'd have to filter through a a very fine filter or pastuerize your beer. You'd then have no yeast to condition the beer so you'd have to force carbonate. ===> Lee Bollard asks about using Laaglander DME for yeast starters: > The other day I bought a bunch of Laaglander DME for making yeast > starters. Today I read about the high percentage of unfermentable > sugars in this DME. Will this affect my yeast starters? As far as yeast starters are concerned, I don't think it really matters. ===> Mark Peacock asks about ruined beer: >I live in the MidWest, and was brewing a wheat beer with Wyeast #3068 >Weihenstephan yeast during last week's heat wave. I just racked to the >secondary what smelled like a banana smoothie. Is my beer ruined? I don't think so. Weizens have clove and banana notes to them. As the fermentation rises, the banana notes tend to dominate over the clove notes. Over time, the banana notes will fade. - -- Phil _____________________________________________________________ Philip Gravel Lisle, Illinois pgravel at mcs.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 06:51:03 -0500 From: "Andrew D. Kailhofer" <andy at aerie.bdy.wi.ameritech.com> Subject: Re: Killer oatmeal #3 In message <58630.paa3983 at dpsc.dla.mil>, "mike spinelli" writes: >Yo Andy ! > >I read your thread on a Pear brew and caught your ravings about your >Oatmeal Stout. > >How 'bout firin' me your recipe? > >I've been dying to get a good recipe since trying Sam Smith's Oatmeal. > >TIA, Mike Not only for Mike's edification, but also for everyone else... I did a partial mash OMS (Oatmeal Stout #2) that took a 1st/BOS at the '94 Midwest Regional, and wanted to try it all-grain. Boy, am I glad I did. The comments so far have ranged from "Wow!" to "Sam Smith's has got nothing on you!" to "This is the best beer I have ever had anywhere, anytime!" Oatmeal Stout #3 Use Wyeast Irish Ale, stepped twice to 1qt. We were working with bottled water from central Wisconsin. In 16qts 128F water, dough in with 14# Klages and 2# Quaker "quick" (the "1 Minute" rather than the "5 Minute") oats. [No, don't use "steel cut" oats, and don't use the "5 Minute" kind. You have to pre-cook them, and it's a hassle.] Rest at 122 for 30 min. Add 2t Burton water salts. Heat to 149F over 15 minutes. Rest for 50 minutes. Raise to 159 over 15 minutes. Rest 50 minutes. [In actuality, the last step was to heat to 165 over 15 and rest for 2 hours with continuously falling temps, ending somewhere around 150F] Add 1/2# 50L crystal, 1/2# roasted barley, 3/4# "chocolate" malt, 1/4# black patent. Raise to 170. Hold 10 minutes. Transfer to lauter tun, rest for 30 minutes to stabilize the grain bed (make *sure* you underlet this, or you'll suffer the consequences). You'll probably want to insulate your lauter-tun for this part. Sparge with 8gal 180F water. Boil to reduce volume appropriately. [We had kettle size problems... Given larger kettles and lauter-tuns, we could have gotten even more good runnings than we did.] Once you think that your volume is right... This is T=0. Add 1-1/2 oz. 4.4% leaf Fuggles. At T+20 add 1-1/2 oz 7.7% Brewers Gold pellets. [No, I don't remember why I used the hops in that order.] At T+80, add 2t Irish Moss and you immersion chiller. At T+98, chill. Aerate with filtered air (or go ahead and pour it back and forth between two carboys about 27 times to actually get enough dissolved O2). Adjust OG from 1.092 to 1.072 [we overshot our reduction, and had to adjust to the planned OG of 1.072, Thanks to Diane.] Pitch. Ten days in the primary. Three months (yes, three months, you should try it, it makes a beer smooooooth) in the secondary. FG = 1.020. Enjoy! Andy - -- Andy Kailhofer Sr. Analyst, Ameritech Network Services 414/678-7793 andy at aerie.bdy.wi.ameritech.com FAX: 414/678-6335 740 N Broadway, Room 430, Milwaukee, WI 53202-4303 pXoXsXtmaster at ameritech.com Member: League for Programming Freedom Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 07:59:46 -0400 From: Jim Grady <grady at hpangrx.an.hp.com> Subject: Homebrewing and Septic Systems There have been several posts in the past few years asking about the effects on a septic system of dumping bleach down the drain. Well, I just moved into a house with a septic system and was talking to my plumber when he said that it would really help out the septic system if once a month I would dump a bunch of yeast down the drain! He went on the say that his friend who owns a local sewer & drain company told him (this is getting to be gossip at this point!) of a customer who was a homebrewer and his septic system was in very good condition because of all the yeast that goes down the drain (I assume he uses a sanitizer!). So now I have to brew at least once a month. I hate it when that happens! :-) - -- Jim Grady grady at an.hp.com Hewlett-Packard Medical Products Group Andover, MA Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 95 8:40:53 EDT From: Curt Freeman <curtf at hpwarkv.an.hp.com> Subject: Homebrewed Septic Systems Full-Name: Curt Freeman Jim Grady writes: >There have been several posts in the past few years asking about the >effects on a septic system of dumping bleach down the drain. Well, I >just moved into a house with a septic system and was talking to my >plumber when he said that it would really help out the septic system if >once a month I would dump a bunch of yeast down the drain! I assume the yeast doesn't thrive in the septic system as in one huge underground ferementer (you'll never think of Brown Ale in the same way again). Perhaps to the critters that inhabit the septic tank - "Yeast is good food". Now I know one way a post and a response can show up in the same issue of the digest! - -- Curt Freeman curtf at an.hp.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 95 07:58:00 -0600 From: phil.brushaber at u2u.com (Phil Brushaber) Subject: DWC Belgian Pilsner Malt Through a cooperative agreement with my homebrew club I have an opportunity to buy DWC Belgian Pilsner Malt for $25 for a 50 lbs. sack. Before I do I'd like your input... What do you think of this grain? Has it provided good results? Would it be a good substitute for my base (2-Row) grain in recipes? - ---- USER-TO-USER PCBoard (214)393-9317, 9 Nodes, Dallas, TX Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 08:08:24 -0500 (EST) From: david lawrence shea <dshea at indiana.edu> Subject: Re: Over carbonation problems Phil Brushaber wrote about over carbonation in his bottles. Phil, yes you can uncap your bottles, let them sit, and then recap. I have done this on a number of occasions with great results. Take a large group of bottles uncap them and let them sit. You will want to use one bottle as a test bottle for carbonation. Sip this bottle every 5 minutes or so until the carbonation is at a more desirable level. A word of warning, this can be messy. Usually, my bottles have foamed over the top slightly leaving a mess on the bottles and counter. After you recap, just wipe the bottles and put them away. The foam that is inside the bottles after recapping will disappear in a few hours. Finally, this process always seems to take longer than expected. My average wait has been about 30 to 40 minutes for carbonation to settle, although I have only done this a couple of times. Good luck, hope this helps. David L. Shea dshea at nickel.indiana.edu Indiana University Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 08:57:46 -0500 From: keithfrank at dow.com (Keith Frank) Subject: Alt with Wyeast European Ale (1338) and Irish Ale ***** from Bruce DeBolt ***** Since Wyeast 1084 makes such good stouts and porters I wanted to compare it to my standard alt yeast (Wyeast 1338) using the same wort. The original recipe came from Zymurgy's Winter 1994 article on Alt, with modifications from HBD input and gut feel. I've been trying to duplicate Otter Creek Copper Ale, but it's been so long since I drank one (Texas is a long way from Vermont) I can't honestly say how this compares. Recipe for 5 gallons: 7 lb Shrier 2 row pale 1 lb German Munich 1 lb German Vienna 1/2 lb Brit. Carapils 1/2 lb Belgian 50 Lov. crystal 1/2 lb Brit. 50 Lov. crystal 1/2 DWC Aromatic 1/2 lb German wheat 1 oz. Roast Barley added last 10 min. of mash Mash at 156-155 for 60 min. 1/2 tsp gypsum in very soft mash water. Hops - Tettnanger 0.7 oz. (3.8a) and Liberty 0.6 oz. (5.2a) 70 min. - Liberty 0.5 oz. each at 30 min., 15 min., and 5 min. Wort split into two fermenters, with a one quart starter of each yeast. Fermented at 66-70F in primary for 7 days, 72-80F in secondary for 10 days. O.G. 1.053, SG for both yeasts 1.018 Flavor comparison after two months in the bottle: - Malt aroma - 1338 a little more pronounced than 1084 - Malt flavor - 1338 is smoother, but I prefer the slightly "rougher" flavor of 1084 - Bitterness - 1338 has a pleasant slight bitterness in the finish, 1084 a little more pronounced - 1338 has a fruitiness that is not as noticeable in 1084. Comments - I prefer the 1084 overall. At a recent club meeting the vote was for 1084. Both beers are good, but the 1084 flavor is more distinct. With a lower FG or more bittering hops it would be just what I'm after. Has anyone made a pale ale with the Irish Ale yeast? Bruce DeBolt Lake Jackson, TX Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 08:59:40 -0500 From: keithfrank at dow.com (Keith Frank) Subject: IPA with two yeasts / Bitter from same batch ***** from Bruce DeBolt ****** After hearing the praises of the ESB yeast on the Digest I compared it to 1056 on an IPA. At bottling I diluted the 1056 version 50% with water to make a low alcohol "IPA", what I got was a good Bitter. Recipe for 6 gallons: 9 lb Shrier pale 0.25 lb 110 Lov. Brit. crystal (wanted 80 Lov., but store didn't have it) 0.5 lb 50 Lov. Belgian crystal 0.5 lb 50 Lov. British crystal 0.75 lb British carapils 0.5 lb Belgian wheat (head retention) Mash at 155 F, one hour, with 1 tsp gypsum in very soft mash water. 1.5 lb Briess pale DME added at the boil Hops - Cascade pellets (6.1 alpha) for all additions: - 1.8 oz. 60 min., 0.5 oz. 30 min., 0.5 oz. 15 min., 0.5 oz. 2 min. Pitched 3 cup starter of each yeast. Dry hopped 1056 in secondary with 0.35 oz. Cascade (3 gal) Dry hopped 1968 in secondary with 0.25 oz. Cascade (2.5 gal) Primary ferment 7 days at 68-73 F. 14 days in secondary at 76- 85 F. S.G. 1.061, OG 1.013 both yeasts Notes - Comments on HBD indicated the ESB yeast would benefit from rousing the carboy, so I roused both to be fair. 1968 fermented a little slower than 1056, but the FG's were the same. Flavor comments after 6-8 weeks in the bottle: - Common attributes of 1056 and 1968 batches - No hop aroma (disappointing), caramel flavor, bitterness lingers, warming alcohol sensation. Wyeast 1968 ESB has a pleasant, mellow diacetyl flavor up front, then the bitterness kicks in and lingers nicely. The 1056 bitterness is up front and throughout, not as smooth as 1968, more "in your face". These beers may be closer to an ESB than an IPA with the caramel flavor. - Normally I would dry hop with 1 oz. of Cascade on a 5 gallon batch, but I cut back this time to try for a more subtle aroma, but there was none. Given the high alcohol content and long time in the secondary I was a little surprised. The hops were '93 pellets stored in the freezer in a thick polypropylene bottle, perhaps they were too old. Next time I'll try whole Cascades from Just Hops and go back to 1 oz. - 50% Diluted 1056 (essentially 1.030 OG, 1.007 FG) - I tried this after coming back from Colorado on vacation and the first thing that popped into my mind was "Sawtooth Ale" from Left Hand Brewing, it tasted very similar. Maybe next time I'll dilute the whole batch and make 12 gallons of this instead. I should have diluted some of the 1968 batch also to get more of a traditional Bitter. Note: I used a dilute solution of corn sugar, 1/16 cup in 36 ounces water (for one six pack), to get enough carbonation, but for a true bitter you might want to leave out the sugar altogether in the dilution water. This idea came from various people on the Digest who have discussed high(er) gravity brewing and dilution as a way to get more flavor in lower alcohol beers. Bruce DeBolt Lake Jackson, TX Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 09:01:11 -0500 From: keithfrank at dow.com (Keith Frank) Subject: Sanitation tip for racking canes ***** from Bruce DeBolt ****** I shared this at recent club meeting and based on the positive response decided to post. When sanitizing my racking cane I put it in a longer piece of 2" PVC pipe with a PVC cap glued on the bottom. It will stand on its own. Fill with iodophor and just pull out when needed. I cut most of the bend off my plastic racking cane so it would fit inside. It's also a handy container to stuff your siphon hose in, but that takes a little cramming. This came in most useful when I finally used an accumulated series of equipment and procedure tips from the Digest. Prior to getting my equipment act together I used to pour cool wort from the 33 quart brew pot through a funnel into the carboy, making a mess in the process and not helping my back at all. Now I rack from the brew pot with a 3/8" copper racking tube through vinyl tubing, into a short piece of copper tubing with holes drilled in the top (to suck in air), connected to the carboy by an orange plastic carboy cap. The siphon is started by sucking on a sanitized tube conneced to the other outlet on the carboy cap. Once assembled the whole thing is sealed off from any potential microbes except for the racking cane. I connected the siphon tubing to the racking cane, placed the cane inside the iodophor filled PVC pipe, and carried them together out to the garage (it helps to have a carboy handle). Just before siphoning, pull the cane out of the iodophor, let it drain and place in the wort. Works great for doing split batches with different yeasts as you just crimp the hose when you've filled one carboy, move the assembly to another carboy and let it go again. I've also switched from a plastic false bottom to a copper manifold in my Gott cooler and think it works much better - no floating and very easy sparges. A belated thanks to all who have posted on these topics over the last year and a half. Bruce DeBolt Lake Jackson, TX Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 07:15:13 -0800 From: docherty at Arco.COM (Shane Docherty) Subject: Bulk purchase of Durst or Ireks Pils Malt Does anyone know the address or phone number of the wholesalers for Durst or Ireks Malt ??? I would like to put together a club buy for a ton or so but don't have any addresses. Our club is in Anchorage, Alaska so anywhere in the Northwest or on the West coast would be closest if there are multiple wholesalers. Any suggestions on the cheapest way to ship it also gratefully accepted, probably by barge from Seattle. I'm looking for good Pils and Munich malts in particular, so any other suggestions also accepted, e.g a DeWolf-Cosyns wholesaler, but from what I've read lately Durst or Ireks are likely to be the best the available. Private email please as I'm a sporadic reader over the summer. Thanks in advance. Shane Docherty - Anchorage, Alaska Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 07:15:54 -0800 From: docherty at Arco.COM (Shane Docherty) Subject: Bulk purchases of Durst or Ireks Does anyone know who the wholesalers of Durst or Ireks are ?? I would like to put together a club grain buy for a ton or so, but don't have any addresses or phone numbers. We're mainly interested in good quality Pils and Munich malts for this buy, but any other addresses of distributors for future reference would also be appreciated. Any suggestions on the best/cheapest way to ship it up to Anchorage would also be good. Probably by barge out of Seattle with a consolidator ??? Please reply by email as I only read the HBD sporadically over the summer and will be gone for a week. TIA Shane Docherty - Anchorage, Alaska Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 95 12:33:40 EDT From: "Lee A. Menegoni" <lmenegoni at nectech.com> Subject: When to stop sparging A recent post stated: "For convenience, I also note that until the *hot* SG falls below 1.000, there is no need to chill the sample. With a typical (150F outflow) sparge, you can keep going until about 0.990 *hot* SG. =Spencer Thomas in Ann Arbor, MI (spencer at umich.edu)" I use the same technique, 1.00 hot wort out of the tun I stop, I may be able to squeeze a few more points out but figure its not worth the risk of tannin extraction. Lee Menegoni NEC Technologies 1414 Mass. Ave / MS 2110 Boxborough MA 01719-2298 v 508-635-6282 f 508-264-8787 LMenegoni at NECTech.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 95 13:11:00 -0400 From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu> Subject: Re: Re: Ginger wit recipe Carl Etnier (A transplanted Yank in Trosa, Sweden, Number of days since last snowfall: 70) asks: > But what is "grain of paradise," pray tell? Sounds like an epithet > for our beloved barley, but you've got it listed under spices. My > dictionary says it means either the medicinal African plant > _Aframomum melegueta_, or cardamom. Rajotte mentions it and Michael jackson suggest that it may be a secret ingredient in som wit(s?). The look as though they are indeed related to dardamom, but I have a fair colledtion of Indian, other Asian and Middle East cookbooks, and can't fin it listed, either under "grain(s) of paradise) or _A. melegueta_, so I don't know their origin or in what kind of cooking they are used. I got my 3 gm. from Dan McConnell who got them from Tony Babinec (Thanks, Tony), but Dan has seen them at the spice place whose name escapes me in Detroit's Eastern Market. They are very aromatic and resiny in taste with a pungent peppery aftertaste. It certainly has an aromatic similarity to cardamom, but it is quite distinct. > And cardamom (also spelled > cardamum) can either be the Asiatic _Elettaria cardamomum_ or the > inferior _Amomum cardamomum_ from the East Indies, according to my > deep American Heritage Dictionary research in spice botany. What did > you use? You don't think I'd use anything inferior, do you? ;-) I buy cardamom at the local food co-op, and it seems identical to that sold in Indian groceries, so I feel sure they are the Asian variety. It is a favorite spice of mine, but there aren't that many dishes that use it. Indian cuisine is a passion of mine! Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan c/o nerenner at umich.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 12:09:44 -0500 From: Russell Mast <rmast at fnbc.com> Subject: Cherries. > From: Nick Hiams <oleum at spuddy.mew.co.uk> > PS does anyone know what to to with between 5 and 10 lb of dark very ripe > cherries. I can't eat any more [I must've eaten about 10 lb already in the > last week...and my wife ...and my kids...and everyone at work]. I thought > of steeping them in brandy to make cherry brandy something like sloes and > gin but I'd rather make a cherry beer. Anyone have a recipe for Liefmanns > Kriek? This is gorgeous. You could try the lambic digest. They consider Liefmanns a bit too sweet (and Lindemann's downright syrupy). If you're going to go for the rest of the lambic character, you'll need some Brettanomyces, which is going to ferment polysacharrides and result in a very dry beer unless you play with artificial sweeteners or pasteurization. You could just do a sour mash and use all the cherries and hope for the best. 5-10 lbs is often recommended for a 5 gallon batch, but I've found a little more to be better, depending on what kind of beer you put it in. If you put it in a very light, subtly flavored beer, 5 might be plenty. In a darker beer or a beer with a stronger character, 10 might not be enough. On advice from the lambic digest, I used 20 lbs in a recent batch, and some sticklers were saying that wouldn't be enough. I tasted it last night and it's a _lot_, but it won't be ready to drink for at least another year, so we'll see how much is left then. -Russelll (Three L's, cuz more is better) Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 13:15:11 -0400 From: eamonn at chinook.physics.utoronto.ca (Eamonn McKernan) Subject: bottle conditioning lagers /RIMS Barry Browne wants to bottle a lager that's been lagering for 8 weeks. Now most of the yeast will have settled out, but that shouldn't mean that it's no good, only that it's not in suspension. So when you rack to a priming bucket Barry, gently wipe the racking cane along the bottom layer of yeast/trub when the carboy's almost empty. This way you'll pick up a small amount of the sediment. You don't need alot of yeast, unless you're impatient for it to carbonate. but since you've been waiting 2 months already, what's a few extra days for full carbonation? This is alot simpler that adding fresh yeast, and decreases the chance (however slight) of infection. *** I've re-plumbed my RIMS so that input and output to the heating chamber are along the top, but now there's no way to empty it of liquid. In fact, there are a couple of areas where liquid will not easily drain from the pipes after a brew session's over. Now it's a real pain to take it all apart (the flare fittings that would have allowed easy disassembly leaked, so now everything's soldered). So what's a brewer to do? In fact, since I only brew once or twice a month, what's the best way to store this baby? Copper corrodes. A good hot water flush takes off the corrosion, but the aquarium silicone I have is not rated to boiling temperatures, so I'd have to limit the water temperature to around 180F. And extensive cleaning really adds to brewing time. This sucker was supposed to be a labour *saver* after all... *** Speaking of silicone, at present my thermistors are in a small metal tube, pushed through a small bung, covered in silicone, and pressed into one end of a 1/2" copper T connector, and sealed again around the outside with more silicone. Mechanical stress eventually leads to leaks. I haven't yet brewed copper pipe ------------------------------------------ bung |--------| | | tube _________________ wires==================* <-- thermistor bead, wires, tube(inside and out), tube ----------------- the holes in both ends of the bung, | | and wherever the bung meets copper all Bung |--------| smeared liberally with sealant. copper pipe ----------------| |------------ | | | | | | (Like Rodney Morris describes) with this baby, but what will i do if a leak develops halfway through? (This is the main reason I'm testing the system so thoroughly right now). There's gotta be a better way to do this. Preferably without using silicone. The stuff makes me nervous for numerous reasons: no good at high temperature, takes a week to cure fully so can't be repaired in the middle of a brew session, possible chemicals leeching into beer, smells terrible, poor mechanical strength (leaked in 3 test sessions). Lots of questions! TIA, Eamonn McKernan eamonn at atmosp.physics.utoronto.ca "One more time: Speed does NOT kill. Speed isn't the problem; speed is the objective. If we weren't in a hurry, we wouldn't need freeways. We'd walk." -Jim Kenzie on highway speed limits Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 13:26:25 -0400 (EDT) From: Tim Laatsch <LAATSCH at kbs.msu.edu> Subject: Wet and Dry Flaming Hey All, I stand corrected by Pierre Jelenc: >>Tim Laatsch <LAATSCH at kbs.msu.edu> says: >> After racking to the secondary, I flame-sterilize the mouth of my >> primary carboy by wiping it down with ethanol and setting it on fire. >> It's not really dangerous and it can be quite thrilling. >Note that this is not likely to do much sanitizing unless the contact time >is quite long. In a microbiology lab there are two different flaming >techniques: dry flaming, routinely done on such things as pipets, bottle >mouths, inoculating loops, etc, relies on the _heat_ of the gas flame to >sanitize or sterilize the heated area. Alcohol flaming is altogether >different; it is designed to burn off the alcohol in which an object, such >as a spreader, has been soaking. I should have technically referred to the wet-flaming technique as flame-sanitation. I use the alcohol as a topical disinfectant and solvent, then burn it away with the flame. I failed to mention that I also dry-flame the carboy neck after the wet-flaming as an extra measure of protection. This is not perfect sterilization, but as close as one needs to or can hope to get at home and in this particular application. >The flame itself cannot be counted upon >to heat-sterilize the object; indeed very often the object stays quite >cool since the alcohol evaporates and burns away from the surface. I have to disagree here, the wet-flamed surfaces can become quite hot and can very easily burn the skin. Try dipping some tweezers or a glass rod in ethanol, igniting the ethanol on the object, and tilting it so the burning ethanol runs toward your fingers (careful here...we don't want any more flaming body parts)---the tweezers heat up very nicely before the flames ever reach your hand. You may even be inclined to drop the tweezers and cry out in pain. [This stunt performed in cyberspace by professional idiots, please don't try this at home]. Nonetheless, dry-flaming is a more aseptic technique. I use ethanol with reckless abandon in my brewery, flaming or not, and have had excellent results. Decide for yourselves. None of this, of course, applies to on-line flames, for which the only real protection is thick layers of asbestos. ;-) Shields up, again. tim *=============================================================================* | Timothy P. Laatsch | email: laatsch at kbs.msu.edu | Aspiring | | Graduate Student-Microbiology | biz phone: 616-671-2329 | All-Grain | | Michigan State University/KBS | fax: 616-671-2104 | Homebrewer | | Kalamazoo, MI (Home of Bell's) | obsession: American Pale Ale | & Scientist | *=============================================================================* Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 15:46:05 -0400 From: GRMarkel at aol.com Subject: Motorizing Malt Mills Just another note on motorizing malt mills. I've been through 2 revisions of motorizing a "Malt Mill". The power source was a 1/10th HP gearmotor with a 30 RPM output and torque rating of 113 in/lbs. The reason for this motor selection? Easy - it was free! The 113 in/lbs seems like enough (in my seat of the pants engineering judgement), the 30 RPM a little slow, (based on hand cranking speed) but the price was right. The first design was mounted behind the "Malt Mill" and driven via a 1/2" timing belt. This was OK but always had problems with belt tension and skipping teeth (slipping) under load. I also didn't like the idea of side loading the driven roll, my fear was the bronze bushing would die a premature death. But it did work, (although slowly) providing a good crush. The 2nd revision I pulled out all the stops, remounting the mill on an elevated platform hold both the motor and mill, allowing the collection bucket to slide in and out without lifting the mill and motor,(as in revision 1) and replaced the belt drive with an in-line jaw type coupling. This has been in service at my local homebrew shop for the past 9 months with no problems. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 19:24:19 -0400 From: MSMHRN01.RADAMS01 at eds.com Subject: keg question. Simple keg-as-kettle question: I have picked up an old gravity tap AB half keg, thinking that its existing "bottom valve" is already adequate as-is - at least, for a hot liquour tank or a boiling kettle. I haven't seen the inside guts of the assembly yet, so can't evaluate how it might be adapted for mash/lautering. Simple solution might be a stainless 'hinged' disc that sits atop the valve. I also picked up a couple quarter kegs cuz they were there, but can't think of uses other than using them to make 5 gal size batches (again). Any ideas on either points? Thanks (ia) Rick Adamson msmhrn01.radams01 at eds.com Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1791, 07/26/95