HOMEBREW Digest #1793 Fri 28 July 1995

Digest #1792 Digest #1794


	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  Thermodynamic Sulphur Chillout (Part 2) (CHARLIE SCANDRETT)
  Dry Hopping (Norman C. Pyle)
  RE: Brewing in the flames of Heck (CGEDEN)
  Auto Reply from Watch_Mail for 26-JUL-1995 18:00 to 7-AUG-1995 08:00 (PAUL O'KEEFE LKG1-2/F08 226-7029 - NAC/ENT  26-Jul-1995 2033)
  Green Malt/Wind Malt ("Eric W. Miller")
  RJ Riptides in San Diego ("Michael D. Fairbrother")
  RE:  Yeast Cake (Dave Whitman)
  Fermentap (kgmiller)
  Oxygen tanks (Jim Busch)
  Wheeler Real Ale Books (Jay Weissler)
  re killians (Tim_Fields_at_Relay__Tech__Vienna)
  Re: Architecture Questionnaire revisited.... (Jim Dipalma)
  BBC Maerzen (Jim Busch)
  Liefmans (Jim Busch)
  Re: RIMS & Wyeast 3944 (Jay Reeves)
  One more Oud Bruin quip... (Russell Mast)
  more suggestions about Krieks (David Taylor)
  Marzen Yeast Strain (Rob Reed)
  Priming lagers / Upgrading equipment /$0.02 on Laaglander thread ("John MCCafferty")
  Sight Guage / Gambrinus (Norman C. Pyle)
  keg dry hopping... (bob dougherty)
  Re: Scientific Mashing Breakthru! (Dan Sherman)
  Basmati Ale (Saylor1/Apple)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 27 Jul 95 07:34:49 +1000 From: CHARLIE SCANDRETT <merino at ozemail.com.au> Subject: Thermodynamic Sulphur Chillout (Part 2) This is the second of a 2 part post about chilling and why. Part 1 was about Di-Methyl Sulphide. * Norman Pyle in HBD 1778 started a thread on "chillers" that I sympathize with. The thermodynamic terminology of homebrewers is esoteric and serves little technical purpose. * Robert Brown in HBD 1780 attempts to coin an awesome nomenclature. * Lee Allison in HBD 1780 wants to build a plate exchanger, I have a simple design. * Tom Williams (refreshingly) identifies "chillers" as heat exchangers and introduces the correct technical description but wants to know why? I left the Physics department for Literature 20 years ago, confident that the mysteries of thermodynamics would never torment me again. Alas, now I must dip my big toe in it again. As I said in a previous post, I am constructing a 70 litre test model of a full mini-brewery for assembly in central Russia. To this end I have been pestering engineers, beer in hand. FAQ- How do I chill it? With a heat exchanger of course. All our contraptions of copper, plastic and water are heat exchangers. Heat exchanging is a highly advanced industry that knows what it is doing, so why do we reinvent the wheel? The most common classes of heat exchangers are "parallel flow" in which the two fluids(or gases) flow parallel and in the same direction. "crossflow" in which they flow across each other's path,usually 90 degrees "counterflow" is parallel flow in oposite directions The reason for this terminology is that different mathematical formulas are used to calculate the heat transfer in these different configurations, heat exchangers are named by *how the two fluids move in relation to each other*. The "Cu tube in a hose" is a counterflow heat exchanger. The coolant water should run opposite to the wort because this is by far the most efficient. It is possible to cool the wort to below the exit temperature of the water. The "Cu tube in a bucket/bathtub of ice water" is a crossflow exchanger. It should be continously stirred and because the flow is not parallel to the Cu wall, boundary layers are not a problem outside the tube. The "cold coil in wort" system is also crossflow. The kettle in a snow drift (my Russian grandmother-in-laws method) is a non flow system and fraught with temperature stratification problems and the transmission coefficient of water. (stir vigorously and it has the same properties as crossflow.) FAQ-What is best? Well, let us look at some of the basics. Heat must flow from wort to coolant. The main barrier is the metal wall. *Wrong!* The first trap I fell into was confusing "coeficients of heat transfer" with "coeficients of heat transmission". Heat travels through things and most high school kids could find out that Cu is 7 times better at this than steel. But the heat *transmission* properties of water are lousy and in a laminar flow situation a boundary layer forms on the wall of you tube, becoming an insulator. As well, the interface between liquid/metal and then metal/liquid has it's own resistance called the coeficient of heat *transfer*. The actual bit of metal (if its under 3mm) contributes much less than 10% to the "overall coeficient of heat transfer". The rate of heat transfer depends on a few vital factors a/ The area of you exchanger (ie length of tube) b/ getting rid of the boundry layer by achieving "turbulent flow" (dramatic improvement, convection replaces transmission) c/ the thermal pressure, known as the "logarithmic mean temperature difference". (always greater for counterflow) d/ the overall coeficient of heat transfer, which depends a lot on b/ Without trying to understand Prandtl and Renyolds numbers, turbulent flow is achieved in a 1/2 " tube at .11 m/sec, in a 3/8" tube at .14 m/sec, and in a 1/4 " tube at .22 m/sec, which quite simply means in eachl case, *put 5 gallons through your (1/2":3/8":1/4") exchanger in under (22:31:46) minutes and you have turbulent flow*, (Charlie's Law) The overall coeficient of transfer jumps from about 1.25 KW/m2 K to about 12.5 KW/m2 K ! Fast flow systems rule OK? Example: Now 5 gallons of wort at 100 C cooled to 20 C needs to loose about 6300 KJ of energy, If the temp difference (dT1) at exit of coolant and entrance of wort (same end) is 30 C (run the hose fast) and at wort exit (dT2) = 5 C the the log mean temp difference O = (dT1-dT2)/(loge (dT1/dT2)) = 13.8 C Now Q=U A O (Q=heat transfer rate, U= coeficient, A= area, O= log mean temp diff) If we want to cool in 10 minutes we need a rate of 10.5 KW which translates theoretically into about 8 feet of 3/8 tube in a hose. Extra area in heat exchanges can't hurt and gives more control, so buy 12 feet. But tap water is seldom 5 C below the desired final temperature, especially for lager brewers. A crossflow "finishing" exchanger of 4 feet of tube in a ice bucket will pull it down a further 8 > 12 C without need to change the ice coolant. The "tap water in a hose around a tube of wort" and "tap water in a coil in stirred wort" are thermodynamically efficient, but suffer from the limitation of the tap temperature as some thermal pressure is needed to drive the heat exchange. The "coil in an ice bucket/bathtub" systems on their own need coolant changes and constant stirring. The combination counterflow, crossflow exchanger avoids most of this except the stirring, the tap water receives most of the energy, preventing the rapid heating of the ice bucket. To control you cooling for DMS results, the siphon height or outlet constriction will adjust your flow rate of wort and thus your cooling time. The tap water flow rate will adjust your final temperature to the desired figure. Record your results and taste the difference. FAQ- How do I clean it? Simple, a fishing sinker and some 40 lb line. Drop it down your tube propelled by water pressure and then pull through a rag with whatever cleaning agent you prefer. Those with military training with recognise the rifle pull-through technology. Pubs force tennis-size foam balls through their beer lines under pressure. Not so FAQ-What is a Plate exchanger? If anyone wants to build a simple plate exchanger, please post me. Plate exchangers have coolant and wort flowing on alternate sides of many plates of metal with gasket spacers, a sort of thermodynamic sandwich. Their advantages are massive surface area, good turbulent flow and you can take them apart to clean them! They are run counterflow and can be configured as very efficient heat-recovery pastuerizers. I'll work out how to send my drawings on this Internet thingame. "Religion is humankinds attempt to comunicate with the weather, beer is their attempt to ignore it" Anon Charlie (merino at ozemail.com.au) Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 95 12:30:41 MDT From: Norman C. Pyle <npyle at hp7013.ecae.StorTek.COM> Subject: Dry Hopping Stan Gregory wrote: >First post. Made an all grain English pale ale (bitter) and decided to dry >hop with a 0.5 oz E. Kent Golding plug. First mistake was adding the plug to >the primary before fermentation had settled down. The aroma was scrubbed by >CO2 for the most part. Later racked to secondary and probably should have I agree that you should dry hop in the secondary, rather than the primary, but another thing could have contributed to the lack of aroma from this. EKGs are not strongly aromatic. They have a fine aroma indeed, but it is not overwhelming. I would suggest at least 1 oz. of EKGs in 5 gallons for that real "hello!" aroma. >dry hopped then. I didn't. Decided to add a plug of K. Golding to the Corney >at kegging, having read that hops float. Big mistake. They don't all float, >and small hop particles impacted the out flow. Tried back flushing the >beverage side with CO2, thinking that would clear the obstruction. It >didn't. Finally ended up attaching a copper Chore Boy scrub pad to the >siphon tube and transferred the beer to another keg. The simple way is to use a hop bag. Boil the hop bag, insert hops, drop in keg. When the aroma is where you like it, pull the bag out (use your racking cane, upside-down and sanitized, as a hook). If it never seems to be getting too strong, you can just leave the bag in there until the keg is empty. Simple is as simple does. Cheers, Norm Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 95 18:39:41 EDT From: CGEDEN at NERVM.NERDC.UFL.EDU Subject: RE: Brewing in the flames of Heck Since I've never heard of anyone using a system quite like the one that I use, I thought I'd mention it here. I live in Florida where we don't get many 100 degree days but potloads of 95 deg. days. Like Ken Goodrow, we don't run the AC often or cold enough to solve the problem. Here is my solution: The fermenter is first placed in a 15-20 gallon plastic bucket with handles. At K-Mart they call them "laundry tubs"; in any event they are big, sturdy, have handles, and are cheap. The fermenter in a tub is placed on a sheet of cardboard onto which is glued a sheet of household insulation material. You could use any kind I'm sure, but I used the polyisocyanurate type sandwiched between refletive foil; this costs more than the "styrofoam" types but what the heck you don't need much of it. I then assemble a box aroun around the tub that is made up of 4 more sections of plywood with insulation gl u glued on it. Elmer's glue works fine for this, and the box is assembled with the insulation side facing inwards. The sides are held together by stretching rubber bands around metal push-pins that are positioned near all of the corners of each sheet. For a lid I then place on top two half-sheets of plywood- insulation amalgam with a semi-circle cut at the midpoint of one side so that the two pieces slide around the neck of the carboy like a Puritan prisoner's head in the stocks. Cold water is added to the laundry tub so that the fermenter is now sitting in a 10-gallon jacket of cold water within an insulated box. The only part that is outside the box is the very top of the carboy. I keep this fermenter-in-an-icebox in my garage, where temps range from a low of 75 to a high of 97 most days this time of year. By adding 2 small blue ice packs to the water in the tub in the morning, and one ice pack at night (actually I just rotate them in and out of the freezer, 2 in AM, 1 in PM), this system keeps the beer at a constant 63 degrees. What I like about this setup is that the insulated box breaks down to a small, flat object when its not being used so storage space is not a problem. Sorry for the long post, but this system really works well and IMO solves the problem of hot-weather brewing nicely without the expense of buying a second refrigerator just for beer. Chris Geden in Gainesviulle, FL Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 95 20:35:48 EDT From: PAUL O'KEEFE LKG1-2/F08 226-7029 - NAC/ENT 26-Jul-1995 2033 <okeefe at nac.enet.dec.com> Subject: Auto Reply from Watch_Mail for 26-JUL-1995 18:00 to 7-AUG-1995 08:00 Hi, I'm on Vacation from Thursday 7/27, returning Monday 8/7 Unless your good at tracking in the lakes region of Maine ... I'll see you on Monday ... August 7. If you need immediate assistance : For Wavelan/RoamAbout Vickie Prescott Delni::Prescott Jeff Schwartz Took::Schwartz If there are any cost center related questions, forward them to Dolores Miller Delni::Dolores Thanks, and I'll see you on the 7th of August Paul O'keefe Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 19:45:45 -0600 From: "Eric W. Miller" <emiller at mail.bbsnet.com> Subject: Green Malt/Wind Malt In HBD 1790, Jim Busch says: >I gather that >wind malt (green malt??) was not very modified. I had to look this one up, and I'm glad I did. Green malt is what malt is called right after germination, but before drying. Wind malt is just what it sounds like; instead of drying the green malt in a kiln, it is "prepared by thinly spreading green malt from six-rowed barley on screens, in special lofts, and leaving it to dry. This material is used to prepare 'old Louvain' beers, and presumably has a high enzyme content." - M&BS p. 141 I didn't see anything about the degree of modification of typical wind malts. Sounds like the idea is to use lots of enzymes (from the 6-row) and not waste any (by kilning) in order to convert the unmalted wheat easily. Anybody out there tried making their own wind-malt for a wit? Sounds like fun. Eric Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 06:25:26 -0400 From: "Michael D. Fairbrother" <mdf at apollo.hp.com> Subject: RJ Riptides in San Diego While in San Diego, I had some honey ale at RJ Riptides, it was quite good. Being new to the brewing process I was wondering how they got the honey flavor to be so pronounced. I suspect that they might of used some sort of yeast that dies off early. The one attempt that I tried ended up making a beer with quite the punch, all the honey fermented. Any way if anyone knows the scoop, I would love to try and recreate that beer. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 07:51:30 -0400 From: dwhitman at rohmhaas.com (Dave Whitman) Subject: RE: Yeast Cake In HBD #1791, CINIBUMK at ml.wpafb.af.mil asks: >the yeast cake which is usually a smooth dense layer looks more like a >rather loosely packed layer of browned hamburger (for lack of a better >description). The only difference from what I have done in the past was to >use darker crystal malt (120L instead of 60L) and Irish moss...Anyone have >any ideas? This is a normal result of using irish moss. The granular looking stuff is coagulated irish moss / protein complex - trub on steroids. I notice exactly the thing you describe on all batches in which I use irish moss. Your yeast is probably precipitating normally, but you've got these lumps of trub that break up the layer and make it look funny. - --- Dave Whitman Rohm and Haas Specialty Materials dwhitman at rohmhaas.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 95 09:03:31 EST From: kgmiller at wsicorp.com Subject: Fermentap I am considering purchasing the Fermentap. This is the airlock/valve which allow you to invert your carboy. Has anyone used this piece of equipment before. I would appreciate any opinions. Thanks, Ken Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 09:30:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Jim Busch <busch at eosdev2.gsfc.nasa.gov> Subject: Oxygen tanks Jim asks about the use of welding oxygen. I think A.J. covered it pretty well, but Ill relate my experiences as well. I have a 80 cu. ft. tank. I bought it new, but it is for welding. It has only had O2 in it. This tank stands about 4 ft tall and will aeriate about 15 BBls of wort, assuming use of a diffusion stone and run time of 45-60 minutes/BBl. I got a reconditioned welding regulator, it still cost me around $50, I wonder why O2 regs cost more than CO2. The reconditioning meant new seals. While I agree that O2 under pressure is sanitary, the fact that I use welding gas could lead to some residule oils/particulate matter. I use a .2 micron medical disc filter inline, after the reg. This filter is intended to be disposable in the medical field but Ive been using it for over 2 years now. If you have the option in regs, buy one that reads in litres/min. If you want to have a really cool professional system try adapting an inline diffuser into your counterflow chiller. I didnt do this, but it would be nice, I just bubble it into the wort with a SS stone. Inline is more efficient, but O2 is pretty cheap. I think the tank was about $100-120. Refills are about $12. For the newer brewers: you *must* aeriate the wort much more than the average "shake the carboy" method, and pitch enough yeast. A.J.: tell us more about the "oxygenator stone". Is it similar to a sintered SS stone, and how does it carbonate corny's, during transfer from one corny to another or somehow into the one corny??? Hope this helps, Jim Busch Colesville, Md busch at mews.gsfc.nasa.gov "DE HOPPEDUIVEL DRINKT MET ZWIER 'T GEZONDE BLOND HOPPEBIER!" Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 95 08:31:29 -0500 From: jay_weissler at il.us.swissbank.com (Jay Weissler) Subject: Wheeler Real Ale Books I'm thinking of mail ordering one of the Wheeler real ale books. The question is which one. How do they differ? Is one more process oriented and the other more recipe oriented ala the Miller books? I'm pretty comfortable with my process and would like a good recipe collection. On the other hand, if there is really something to be learned from his process (that hasn't been covered here, like the dropping discussion) or if you need his process to make the recipes work, then I would be more interested in that. TIA jayw Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 95 10:01:09 EST From: Tim_Fields_at_Relay__Tech__Vienna at relay.com Subject: re killians In #1792, John (jharding at aztec.asu.edu) asks: >I am wondering if anyone has a recipe for George Killian's >Irish Red. I have checked out The Cat's Meow and found >a couple of close ones. Can anyone lend a hand? I just bottled my first attempt at Dana's Smilin' Irish Eyes Red Ale - recipe from Cats Meow 3. I don't know how close to Killians it is (I don't drink K), but it tastes pretty good to me, and I'd recommend trying the recipe. One caveat: I substituted Ireks LME for the Alexanders called for in the recipe. If it helps - Guy McConnell (who contributed the recipe) opinionizes (yeah, I know - but it works) that this recipe is close to these commercial beers: Irish Ale from Boulevard Brewing Co, and Red Mountain Red Ale from Birmingham Brewing Co. -Tim Tim Fields / Vienna, VA, USA / timf at relay.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 95 10:22:25 EDT From: dipalma at sky.com (Jim Dipalma) Subject: Re: Architecture Questionnaire revisited.... Hi All, In HBD#1792, our resident quack, DocsBrew at aol.com spews forth: >Dear James, >Thank you for your posting of July 26. I think you have made your position >even more clear. I apologize for the paranoid portion of the hbd collective ^^^^^^^^ >who feel they must flame everyone for every reason ^^^^^ After seeing this, I re-read the posts from the only two people who responded (Tim Fields in HBD#1789, and Brent Irvine in HBD#1790). There is *nothing* in either post that can be even remotely construed as either flames or paranoia. *Both* of these posts merely pointed out that some of the questions in James Gaspar's questionnaire seemed more like the type of demographic survey done in marketing than anything to do with the technical aspects of brewing beer. This is *exactly* the same reaction I had when I read it. Further, rather than flame Mr. Gaspar, the posts simply requested clarification: Tim> what's this questionnaire got to do with architecture??? Brent> Perhaps if the student would enlighten us as to what he is seeking. To James Gaspar's credit, he promptly posted a clarification. FWIW, I am satisified that both the questionnaire and his motives are legitimate, that there was no misrepresentation of either. Doc (why won't you post your real name) continued to blather: >- the fact is that you >should expect flames every time you post anything. This from someone who posts under a pseudonym. So now who's being paranoid? Jim dipalma at sky.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 10:29:39 -0400 (EDT) From: Jim Busch <busch at eosdev2.gsfc.nasa.gov> Subject: BBC Maerzen Kirk says about Baltimores Maerzen: <These are exerpts from information sent to me from Robert: >The yeast is definitely the Weinstephan 07 lager yeast, which is the >same as Wyeast's #1007. All his malts are Gambrinus (yes, North >American) two row. I'm not sure of the percentages of the grain, but >it is a mixture of Munich, crystal and lager malt. Finishing hops >are most likely Saaz, and bittering hops are problably Cluster. >These are what he uses on most of his beers. Robert knows not what he speaks of. I have some experience with the brewers who have brewed at BBC between 89 and Jan 95. In fact, both of these brewers are involved in a startup micro that Im also involved with. The first BBC brewer is our CEO/brewmaster and the second brewer is our President/brewer. I know of what I speak. All of the lagers are BBC are fermented with Weihenstephan (note spelling) 34/70. I have no idea what Wyeast calls their version of this. 34/70 is a very clean, very popular lager yeast. Ive heard it is one of the most commonly used yeasts in brewing, worldwide. Ferment temps should be begun at 48F, with tons of aeriation. At the BBC they also employ a floatation tank to remove cold trub prior to fermentation, as is the norm in Germany. Ferments are typically 7-10 days. I would be suprised to hear if it ever climbs above 55F, but in August, this might occur. 34/70 is so clean that most brewers omit any diacetyl rest. After fermentation, the beer is dropped 2F/day until it reaches 31F where it lagers for 5-6 weeks. All of BBC's (as well as Penn Brewery) base malts are US 2 row made by Froederts. Froederts is a good US malt, I like it a bit more than Briess or GW. Gambrinus specialities are used, mostly in the hefeweizen but also as specialties.. Clusters for the boil have been used, mostly to reduce the trub load in the whirlpool for the abusively hopped Pils. The original maerzen was of more traditional OG, ~13P. It is now closer to 12P. A typical step infusion is used. This is not to be confused with a boiling water infusion. <Does this fit into the traditional Marzen category? It is a bit on the light side for a traditional maerzen. Compare to the excellent examples: Wurzburg Maerzen, Spatan and Paulaner which should be available in late August in fresh form. To really be authentic, one needs to find Vienna malts. Vienna and Munich malts and a double decoction will get you closer to the real thing. Try to get German malts too. Id also use Perle or Spalt or Hallertau Hallertau for bittering and keep the IBUs in the 25-30 range. Dont add finish hops past 15 minutes before knock out. Hope this helps, Jim Busch busch at mews.gsfc.nasa.gov "DE HOPPEDUIVEL DRINKT MET ZWIER 'T GEZONDE BLOND HOPPEBIER!" Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 10:35:50 -0400 (EDT) From: Jim Busch <busch at eosdev2.gsfc.nasa.gov> Subject: Liefmans <I was going to answer Nick, but the answer is not what most people want <to hear: no one knows how to make Liefmanns. Even Liefmans doesnt know how to make Liefmans!! Seriously, Liefmans is now run by Riva. As the great Belgian beer hunter, Peter Crombecq says, this is bad. Liefmans is now a sweetish fruit flavored relic of its former self. Goudenband has been bastardized to the extent of being 8% ABV with zero trace of lactic or sourness of any kind. If you can find the old Goudenband at ~5.1%, hoard it up for it will be soon be gone. This is one of my saddest discoveries of my last Belgian beer hunt :( < - if you really want to clone it right, you should think "brettanomyces" Really, Brett?? Jim Busch PS: Fortuneatly, Rodenbach and Rodenbach Grand Cru remain in excellent condition. Return to table of contents
Date: 27 Jul 95 10:42:44 EDT From: Jay Reeves <73362.600 at compuserve.com> Subject: Re: RIMS & Wyeast 3944 In #1791, Eamonn McKernan sez about his RIMS: > There's gotta be a better way to do this. Preferably without using silicone. There is: Here at the concentration camp, we design and manufacture computer controlled water management devices. One of the products uses a thermistor epoxied inside of a brass housing. We went thru about 4 different types of epoxy before we found one that kept its integrity up to temps of 180F. This had to be an FDA approved epoxy. It is called URA-BOND 24-HV from Resin Technology Group, Inc. They have 2 sits: Easton, MA (508-230-8070) & Germantown, WI (414-251-2275). You can call and ask for a sample - just don't let them know it's for a one-time personal use - make up some kinda BS about possibly using it to manufacture RIMS systems on a large scale (I know, it's lying, but hey, it's got me lots of free stuff that I'd otherwise have to spend my beer money on!) The stuff has a temp range of -60C to 120C, tensile strength of 2000 PSI, elongation of 800% (that's right!) and I can't find the coefficient of expansion rating but I know it was good enough to keep a water-tight seal with brass. Cure time is 30 mins tack free, 30-40 mins handling strength, 15 mins at 150F and overnight at room temp. It's also FDA approved which is exactly what is needed. I don't know much about RIMS (yet) but I would ditch the bung for a brass plug (hardware store) that has been drilled large enough to insert the thermistor, then shoot the epoxy in around it - solder this in the pipe. I would also be sure that the thermistor is out in the main flow instead of at the end of a tube like the ASCII-art shows - we've found that the temp can vary as much as 3-4 degrees with that setup due to an eddy current forming in the pocket, but then again I'm not sure how accurate you wanna be. On thermistors: I don't know where everyone gets theirs, but THE thermistor company is Fenwal Electronics in Milford, MA (508-478-6000). We've found that the standard NTC glass probe (not the glass bead) units are best suited for immersion applications. Again, free samples for white lies. Now a question: At what temp does everyone ferment Wyeast 3944? The Wyeast data sheet claims 60-68F but I'll be damned if it doesn't go to sleep or stop when it gets around 66F. -Jay "Will lie for beer" Reeves Huntsville, Alabama, USA Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 11:45:13 -0500 From: Russell Mast <rmast at fnbc.com> Subject: One more Oud Bruin quip... One more thing about the Liefmann's beers and their ilk. There's a certain velvetty softness to the mouthfeel. It's not like it's specifically thicker or thinner than other beers, but there's something else in there. I think it might be related in part to the long boiling time because there is a hint of that unique mouthfeel element in Kwak Pawuel (sp?), another Belgian beer which is hard to categorize. Kwak is made with rather pale malts boiled for an extremely long time and comes out rather dark. Very yummy stuff. It's mouthfeels like this that make me think that ranking mouthfeel in series might miss a lot of good info. I wouldn't call it 'smooth' and definately not 'viscous', but soft and resembling cloth in some way. Perhaps the source of the mouthfeel might be the same as the elusive flavors. Might have something to do with an odd strain of brett, pediococcus, cryptococcus, or who-knows-what-else. -R Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 10:55:27 -0600 (MDT) From: David Taylor <dptaylor at lamar.ColoState.EDU> Subject: more suggestions about Krieks > > From: Nick Hiams <oleum at spuddy.mew.co.uk> > > > PS does anyone know what to to with between 5 and 10 lb of dark very ripe > > cherries. I can't eat any more [I must've eaten about 10 lb already in the > > last week...and my wife ...and my kids...and everyone at work]. I thought > > of steeping them in brandy to make cherry brandy something like sloes and > > gin but I'd rather make a cherry beer. Anyone have a recipe for Liefmanns > > Kriek? This is gorgeous. > ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// As for a suggestion of what to do with the cherries, I like the Kriek recipe in the back of Dave Miller's book. I modified it by letting the fermentation get going for about 4 days in a covered plastic tub and then SLOWLY adding pitted cherries (which I had scalded in hot water). I left it in the secondary carboy for a month. For the first 2 months it was rather awful (like a mixture of Coors and cherry soda), but it then acquired a really nice flavor and character. The only change I would make would be to leave it in the secondary longer: although the beer was clear of particles after it was poured, there was a floqulant layer in the bottom half inch of the bottles and I had to decant carefully. I think that if I wanted a Leifmanns clone, I would start with about 3 gallons of underhopped rather stong brown ale and handle the cherries the same way. Dave Taylor \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 12:57:42 -0400 (CDT) From: Rob Reed <rhreed at icdc.delcoelect.com> Subject: Marzen Yeast Strain kwh at roadnet.ups.com (Harralson, Kirk) reports: > Last week, I posted a request for information on Marzens, particularly > DeGroen Marzen produced by the Baltimore Brewing Company. I had only > one reply, but it was extremely informative. > > These are exerpts from information sent to me from Robert Chizmadia: > > >The yeast is definitely the Weinstephan 07 lager yeast, which is the > >same as Wyeast's #1007. This looks like a typo 'cause WYEAST 1007 is German Ale, perhaps he was thinking about Wyeast 2124 Bohemian lager (Weihenstephen 34/70) strain? Cheers, Rob Reed Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 95 13:47:07 EDT From: "John MCCafferty" <johnm at giant.IntraNet.com> Subject: Priming lagers / Upgrading equipment /$0.02 on Laaglander thread A question for you lager brewers. I've noticed that my lagers are generally overcarbonated. I use 3/4 cup of corn sugar as with some other brews but they are just busting with bubbles when mature. I believe the problem is priming and bottling the beer when it is still cold and holding CO2. Do you generally let your lager warm up to room temperature prior to priming and bottling or do you adjust the priming rate based on the temperature of the brew at bottling? If the latter, is there a schedule or formula available that I can use to determine the proper priming amount? I also have some questions on upgrading equipment. I am currently a stove top all grainer. I mash in a 5 gallon SS stock pot, lauter/sparge in a Phils setup, and boil on an electric stove top in a 8 gallon ceramic on steel jobber. I've recently come upon some money (Happy to me!) and want to move my system out doors (I have a screened in deck). My first purchase is obviously a propane burner. Those of you that use propane burners. How do you do your temp step mashes on the burner in a kettle? On the stove top, I get to my target temp and then place the covered mash pot into the prewarmed oven. If I am ouside in the dead of winter, will the lowest setting on the raidal burner keep the temp stable or do I need to build an insulated box to put the kettle in b/t steps? Or do most of you do single step in a Gott cooler usig the burner for heating the mash water, the sparge water, and then doing the boil? How effective are infusions of boiling water into the Gott cooler to do step mashes? Would life be a lot easier with double burner model? I have been perusing the King Kooker catalog and am considering a couple of models. Can anyone comment on the following? #82PK recessed ring burner with 12" tripod, wind guard, 170K BTU ($57) #83PK recessed ring burner with 30 inch legs, wind guard, 170K BTU ($65) If I get a converted keg, I believe I need the extra height this model provides so that I can drain the keg without having to first lift it off the 12" tripod to rack into the carboy. #CS8 camp stove with 2 ring burners; 26 "" fold up legs, wind guard, 170KBTU ($85) Anyone know the cooking surface for this baby? The appeal is having sparge water on one and mashing on the other or do I even need to worry about geting the mash water to right temp on time given the BTUs? So next I think is a malt mill. I am leaning towards Jack's Malt Mill unless convinced otherwise. I like the idea of buying 50# bags of grain rather than paying $1+/pound at the brew store. OR should I go for a bigger brew length and get a converted keg for a brew kettle (vollrath and PBS stuff seems so expensive). Do the the Sabco kettles have a threaded/barbed spout to connect some type of hose to it? Do they come with a lid? What is the diameter of those sankey kegs they use? How heavy is one filled with 10 gallons of brew? If I go to the bigger brew length, I guess I go to kegging as well. I've already acquired 2 pin lock cornies in excellent condition for nada. I'll guess I'll then be asking all those keg questions I skip over now. On the Laaglander thread. I do not think the extract is bad per se. You just need to know what it is and use it appropriately. I've used it w/good results in combination with Alexanders pale LME. It adds the right amount of body to the beers I've brewed with it. I think Miller recommends it in his recipes in Brewing the World's Greatest Beers (great book BTW). I've used 2#s of Laaglander with a 4# can of Alexander's for a Kolsch (WYeast 1007), 1Lb with Alexanders and 1# of rice syrup solids for an american lager (2007), and 3#s with a can of M&F for a holiday brew. I believe all or some of these recipes are in Miller's book. It was a fair wind that blew a man to the ale. - Wahsington Irving John McCafferty Chelmsford, MA Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 95 12:44:06 MDT From: Norman C. Pyle <npyle at hp7013.ecae.StorTek.COM> Subject: Sight Guage / Gambrinus The BixMeister asked: >I have a new query rather a couple of queries. First for those >do-it-yourselfers-how do you construct a liquid level sight tube. I have Well I've done it a couple of different ways, both on hot liquor tanks made from converted kegs. The first one was pretty crude but it did the trick. Out of my hot liquor tank I adapted the fittings to sweat (that's soldered) fittings. I sweated on a T, with the "side port" pointing up. On top of that I clamped a piece of stiff opaque (I think LDPE) tubing. I backed it with a piece of aluminum and put level markings on that. In this case the outlet of the T went to the valve and then downstream. The major drawback here is that the low pressure caused by the flow of liquid out (when the valve was open) caused the sight tubing reading to be way off. I had to stop the flow to check the level. The advantage is that only one hole was required in the tank. The new improved version is sweet. I found a stainless steel L that had 1/2" MPT on one side and (I think) 5/8" compression on the other. I found a glass tube with the same OD as the compression side ID. The 1/2" MPT threads into the FPT fitting on my tank and the elbow points up. The glass tube fits down into the L and the compression nut slides down the glass. To keep from cracking the glass when you tighten the compression nut, replace the compression ring with a rubber washer of appropriate dimensions. As the nut is tightened, the rubber is compressed, making a good seal (this has never leaked in over a year). Now this setup is a dedicated sight tube, i.e. the valve comes off another outlet of the tank. Now I don't have the problem with the flow messing up my guage. Oh, I used finger nail polish to put 1 quart increments on the glass - works like a charm. I support the top of the tube with an eye-bolt attached to the top skirt of the keg. ** Kirk Harralson wrote, on Robert Chizmadia's description of Baltimore Brewing's Maerzen: > RC>same as Wyeast's #1007. All his malts are Gambrinus (yes, North > RC>American) two row. I'm not sure of the percentages of the grain, but > RC>it is a mixture of Munich, crystal and lager malt. Finishing hops KH> I was surprised by both the use of American 2-row and Cluster KH> bittering hops. Does this fit into the traditional Marzen category? First of all, let me say that I've never had the BBC Maerzen; I just want to comment on a couple of things. I'd be surprised if they get away with using Clusters in this beer, but I've seen much stranger. Secondly, I wouldn't call the Gambrinus malt "American 2-row"; that is misleading. The owner of Gambrinus, can't recall his name just now, is a Weinstephan graduate who markets his grain as a reasonable substitute, or maybe a better choice, for German grains. I think they shouldn't be compared to a Briess-malted Harringtons 2-row, because I don't think they are anywhere close to the same. Both are "American", that is North American - Briess from the US, Gambrinus from BC, Canada, and they both malt 2-row barley, but I think that's where the similarities end. I know Gambrinus sells to Tabernash Brewing Company in Denver, and they are a traditional, German style lager brewery. Cheers, Norm Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 12:05:13 -0700 (PDT) From: bob dougherty <wolfgang at cats.ucsc.edu> Subject: keg dry hopping... There have been several posts about keeping hop particles from messing with the pick-up tube when dry hopping in a keg. Some have suggested using a mesh bag to contain the hops. An alternative which I find a bit more elegant is to cover the pick-up tube with a fine stainless mesh. I got enough mesh to do two kegs from one of those "tea-balls" sold for making tea with loose leaves. Disassemble the ball and you have two half-sphere screens that are about the right size and can be sealed around the pick-up tube with some stainless or copper wire (although I find something a bit more flexible makes it easier to get on and off, like a good clean rubber or latex band). Obviously, it has to be attached from within the keg. I found it easiest to form it to the right shape with the tube removed, then just slip it on as you're sliding the tube back in. It's like a snug-fitting cap for the pu tube which can be easily slipped on and off for cleaning. With this method, I just dump whole hops right into the keg. The first pint or two will have some very fine hop particles (and lots of hop flavor!), but the subsequent pints are generally crystal clear. I've done this 20 times or so (with up to an ounce of whole hops) and never had a clog... Oh yea- for added protection from the finer hop particles, I've stuffed a "stainless steel line filter" (from American Science & Surplus, #4258, $2 for 6 of 'em) into the end of the pick-up tube. It's essentially a _very_ fine stainless mesh. I tried using just the line filter, but it clogs too easily without the coarser mesh from the tea-ball to catch the bigger stuff. This second mesh is quite optional, though. You'll just get a little more fine stuff in those first few pints without it... However, if you dry hop with pellets, you may need it. Actually, I haven't tried pellets (too many sources of superbly-handled whole hops!), so no promises there... have fun, bob -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Robert F Dougherty Board of Psychology (408)459-4559 (office) wolfgang at cats.ucsc.edu UCSC, Santa Cruz, CA 95064 (408)458-2428 (message) Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 12:14:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Dan Sherman <dsherman at sdcc3.ucsd.edu> Subject: Re: Scientific Mashing Breakthru! John Palmer <palmer at ssdgwy.mdc.com> wrote: >So! We now have a brewing constant for figuring how much grain can be >mashed in a fixed volume. 1 Pound of 2 Row Malt mixed with 1 Quart of Water >produces a volume of 42 fluid ounces. And, since 1 quart of water is 32 fl. oz., we can conclude that 1 pound of 2 row malt displaces about 10 fl. oz. So, assuming you use at least 1 qt/lb: mash volume (in ounces) = (total quarts of water)*32 + (lbs of malt)*10 or mash vol. (gallons) = (total quarts of water)*0.25 + (lbs of malt)*0.08 >In summary, 10 lbs of Malt at 1.5 qt/lb would fill just over 4.5 gallons mash vol. (gal.) = (15)*0.25 + (10)*.08 = 4.55 gal. Thanks, John. Great job!! Cheers! Dan Sherman San Diego, CA dsherman at ucsd.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 13:00:47 -0700 From: Saylor1/Apple at eworld.com Subject: Basmati Ale A few days back I posted a request for information regarding the proper method of preparation of rice for the mash. I've got this crazy notion that Basmati rice would lend a very interesting aroma to an IPA. I've received several reply's stating that this sounds like a cool idea, and requests to hear of the results but no help with how to actually prepare the rice. So if anyone out there has the know-how I'd really appreciate your input. Look's like some others would as well. TIA Brew On Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1793, 07/28/95

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