HOMEBREW Digest #1831 Thu 14 September 1995

Digest #1830 Digest #1832

		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor

  All-grain starter wort? (CGEDEN)
  1995 Capitol District Open (Fred Hardy)
  Rocky Mountain Shootout (Lynn Danielson)
  labels, labels, labels! (Rolland Everitt)
  Propane Cookers (Brian Barnett)
  Experiences with coffee and chocolate (Bryan L. Gros)
  Use of gelatin (John)
  Temperature Control Unit Questions (Mark Thompson)
  Do no use TSP on glass (Ronald J. La Borde)
  How to homebrew Sake (Mutsuo Hoshido)
  Stopping run-off, 'cos cup overflow error ("Frank R. Oppedijk")
  What's Under Tomorrow's Lid ? (CHARLIE SCANDRETT)
  Keg fittings (Greg Holton)
  Saving $$$ on yeast ("Dave Ebert")
  Warmed Beer ("Jim Webb")
  ageing (Adam Rich)
  Thanks, oh yeasty ones! (pbabcock)
  WYeast 1338 / Hot break ("Keith Royster")
  Hawaii Beer Update (Tim_Fields_at_Relay__Tech__Vienna)
  Yet another Pub/Micro Request (RANDY ERICKSON)
  ...no subject... ("richard myers")
  RE:  Warmed beer? (Jeff Renner)
  Carbonation problems (Steve Armbrust)
  Re: Wyeast 3068 (Jeff Frane)
  H2O Measurements/Paint Stirrers (rich.byrnes)
  Re: 3068, roasting, scum (Jim Dipalma)
  Wild Goose intrigue (rik)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 12 Sep 95 15:01:23 EDT From: CGEDEN at NERVM.NERDC.UFL.EDU Subject: All-grain starter wort? Todd Mansfield has found that his starters do best when he uses all- grain wort, presumably doing back-to-back batches or saving aliquots of his wort for future use in starters. Interesting. How would you do this if you were starting from scratch? A mini-mash of 0.5 lb malted barley with a pint of water at 150 deg. for one hour, sparged to get a total of 16-24 oz. wort? Has anyone ever tried this sort of thing? It wouldnt be much more bother than breaking open a bag of DME, measuring and spilling extract powder all over the kitchen! Chris Geden Gainesville, FL Where summer brewing is a way of life year-round Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 1995 15:27:27 -0400 (EDT) From: Fred Hardy <fcmbh at access.digex.net> Subject: 1995 Capitol District Open 1995 CAPITOL DISTRICT OPEN, Washington, DC Saturday, November 4, 1995 AHA Sanctioned/BJCP Recognized Homebrew Competition. Once again we are able to use the Hyatt Regency Capitol Hill for our competition. Since last year the facility has been renovated and much improved. The competition is open for beer, ciders and meads. Sake will be accepted, drunk by the organizers, but will not be judged. This year requirements have been lowered to 2 bottles per entry, with the usual AHA restrictions on size, lettering, etc. Entry fees are $6 for the 1st entry, $5 for the 2nd, $4 for the 3rd, and $2 each for the 4th to the nth. Enter early and often, with no restrictions on how many entries per category or subcategory. ENTRY DEADLINES: All entries, whether shipped or dropped off, must be received between MONDAY, October 16, and 6:00 pm TUESDAY, October 31, 1995. DC area drop offs are Brew Masters Limited (Rockville, MD), Brew America (Vienna, VA) and The Wine Seller (Herndon, VA). For entry information contact: Fred Hardy (703) 756-5103 days or (703) 378-0329 evenings & weekends email at fcmbh at access.digex.net Entry information is available in both InterNet and print format. Judges are needed. First preference goes to BJCP participants. Wassail, Fred ============================================================================== We must invent the future, else it will | <Fred Hardy> happen to us and we will not like it. | [Stafford Beer, "Platform for Change"] | email: fcmbh at access.digex.net Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 1995 16:01:48 -0600 (MDT) From: lynnd at ihs.com (Lynn Danielson) Subject: Rocky Mountain Shootout The Unfermentables--Denver Area Homebrewers invite you to judge, steward and/or enter our Fourth Annual Homebrew Shootout, to be held in Denver on October 20 and 21. We will accept beer and mead, but not cider or sake. Awards will include ribbons for the first 3 places in each category, as well as brewing supplies, glassware, etc, donated by our sponsors. If you would like to judge or steward, please contact John Barnholt at 303-355-8727, or you can e-mail Mark Groshek on the Internet at theshek at rmii.com. Each beer should be entered according to 1995 AHA style guidelines by category and subcategory. Limit of one beer per entrant per subcategory. We must receive 3 bottles per beer entry, or 2 bottles per mead entry (meads will not participate in overall Best of Show). Categories will be combined as necessary to accommodate the number of entries we receive. Entry fee is $5 for the first entry and $4 for each additional entry (checks made out to "The Unfermentables"). Entries should be shipped via common carrier to The Great Divide Brewing Company, 2201 Arapahoe, Denver, CO 80202. Entries should be received between October 4 and 14. The deadline is 12 noon on Saturday October 14th. Entry forms can be obtained by calling John Barnholt at 303-355-8727. You can also e-mail Mark Groshek at theshek at rmii.com, but forms requested by e-mail will not go out until September 28th. You may also bypass the official entry forms if you wish. If you do, entries must be accompanied by a recipe, and must include your name, address, telephone numbers (day and evening, please), and your homebrew club affiliation, if any. You must include the beer/mead name, and the AHA category and subcategory in which it is being entered--please include the name as well as number and letter of the subcategory you enter, to be sure there is no confusion. Each bottle should have an ID form attached with a rubber band (not glue or tape). The bottle ID form must include your name, address, phone numbers, the beer/mead name, and the AHA category and subcategory in which it is being entered. We are looking forward to a great competition--hope you'll participate as you can. Mark Groshek Internet: theshek at rmii.com What would life be without beer? Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 1995 18:26:13 -0400 From: af509 at osfn.rhilinet.gov (Rolland Everitt) Subject: labels, labels, labels! I make my own labels by hand. I write in a fine calligraphic hand using a pheasant quill dipped in beet juice. For paper, I use my own homemade papyrus (I grow the stuff down by the river). I stick the labels on the bottles using the gum of the jub-jub tree. They never come off - ever. If I want to re-use the bottles, I have to make the same kind of beer again. Top that! Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 95 16:54:45 -0600 From: barnett at slc.unisys.com (Brian Barnett) Subject: Propane Cookers Several people have recommended Camp Chef and Superb 35K BTU cookers. Does the Camp Chef require modification to work efficiently? It appears that the burner will be quite far from the keg when its placed on the heating grate. The model I looked at has four legs, a squarish grate, and a cylindrical shield around the burner. I found this unit priced at $65.00. The only Superb model I have found is 13"X13" and 6.5" in height with no legs, possibly a table top version, model # 16-20E. The burner is basically in a metal box. This model was about $120.00. I not sure this is the model people have been recommending. I would prefer something that didn't require modification. Can somebody straighten me out? Model numbers would be helpful. Thanks, Brian Barnett Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 1995 16:39:27 -0700 From: bgros at mindseye.berkeley.edu (Bryan L. Gros) Subject: Experiences with coffee and chocolate I know that we've been through this before, but I'm interested to hear responses from people who have used coffee and/or chocolate in beers. What kind of coffee or chocoate, what kind of recipe, what results etc. I'll certainly take private responses, and report back. In fact, I may compile results if I get enough and upload it somewhere. I noticed some recipes in the Cat's Meow, but not all of them had comments about the results. Thanks. - Bryan bgros at mindseye.berkeley.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 1995 22:05:08 -0400 From: jjh at intac.com (John) Subject: Use of gelatin [lurk mode off] I've scanned the files at stanford, and a few other brewing resources, and can't find what I'm looking for. What is the best way to use gelatin or other finings to reduce the suspended yeast in kegged beer? The only information I have is from TNCJOHB, which says to add one tablespoon to to one pint of cold water and heat till desolved (but do not boil). Does this method work? If not, what does the collective recommend? E-mail is fine, I'll summarize in a couple of days. TIA, john Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 1995 21:31:58 -0500 From: Mark Thompson <mthompso at mail.utexas.edu> Subject: Temperature Control Unit Questions Last weekend I installed a Johnson Controls Temperature Control Unit (model no. A19ABC-24C) in my beer fridge. It seems to be working, but the actual temperature seems to be around 5 degrees higher than the dial temperature on the controller. I mounted the unit on the inside wall of the fridge with some velcro because I really didn't want to drill any holes. The sensor bulb is attached to about 8 feet of copper wire that is coiled up in the shape of a mini immersion chiller. I stretched out about 2 feet of the wire and then ran the sensor and wire over the cooling elements and let it hang in the center of the fridge. The sensor itself is not touching the cooling elements, but the copper wire is touching. So... here are my questions: 1.) Is the fact that the unit is mounted inside the fridge affecting it's accuracy? 2.) What should I do with the excess copper wire attached to the sensor? Should I uncoil it or leave it alone? 3.) Is the unit getting a false reading because the copper wire is touching the cooling element? 4.) What is the proper placement of the sensor? Any comments are appreciated. Mark Thompson <mthompso at mail.utexas.edu> Austin, Texas Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 95 22:05:10 -0500 From: rlabor at lsumc.edu (Ronald J. La Borde) Subject: Do no use TSP on glass In #1829 Robert wrote: >They sell TSP at the local wine shop, here in Berkeley. I have purchased TSP in a local giant supermarket. I was planing to use it for general glass bottle and carboy cleaning. Upon reading the product label I read that the product was not to be used on glass. WHAT!!!!! So I turned the lights on brighter, put on reading glasses and tried again - Do not use on glass! Wait a minute, what is this??? The package had a telephone number to call for further instructions or information. I called and the lady replied that yes the manufacturer strongly suggested that the product not be used on glass. So I said why. She said it's VERY hard to rinse off. Any further information from fellow digest members on this? The label read pure TSP so I do not think the product had any other additives. This just dosen't make sense - hard to rinse off. Why would a cleaner be hard to rinse off? On the other hand, the manufacturer surely has no desire to limit sales so he may have very strong reasons to put the warning on the label. ************************************************************** Ronald J. La Borde | Work (504)568-4842 | "Never wrestle with a pig. You'll both Home (504)837-0672 | get dirty, and the pig enjoys it." Metairie, LA | ************************************************************** Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 95 16:07:20 JST From: hoshido at gman.rme.sony.co.jp (Mutsuo Hoshido) Subject: How to homebrew Sake How to homebrew Sake After the very hot summer, suitable season for Sake brewing is approaching.Following is the one of the simple Sake brewing procedures to enjoy Sake taste. Materials:1500g(3.3lb) rice,400g(0.9lb)koji,5g(0.18oz)citric acid Water.Dry yeast(I used bread yeast.I heard wine is better. Sake yeast is not available at present.)5g(0.18oz) Koji is available at a grocery store in Japanese during the winter time. Koji is sold as a cooking material to make "amasake", very sweet pasty liquid which has no alcohol and not as a homebrew material. Equipment: electric rice cooker(steam cooker is better), 10liters(2.6gal) enamel deep cooking pot with lid. big spoon(stainless is better) 1.Wash 1500g(3.3lb) rice and then put the rice in a basket for at least one hour. 2.Cook the rice with 1800ml(0.48gal)water using rice cooker. 3.After cooking the rice,cool down the rice to 20deg C(68deg F). 4. Melt the citric acid with 2.4liter water in the enamel cooking pot. Temperature to be lower than 20deg C(68deg F). Citric acid will prevent contamination of bacteria and add slight sour taste to Sake. 5.Add 400g koji and well melt it by agitating with the big spoon. 6.In thirty minuets,add the cooled rice and well mix by agitating with the big spoon. 7.Pitch the dry yeast and place the lid on the pot and keep it under 20deg C(68deg F). 8.Stir it at least once a day.In two or three days you can enjoy Sake smell.Be careful about bacteria contamination. I used 70% ethyl alcohol spay around the pot and to myself. 9.In two weeks fermentation will stop. 10.Filter the sludge using a sterilized basket or cheese cloth. 11.Enjoy the filtered Sake.Do not drink too much. Alcohol content is two to three times more than beer. Cooling the filtered Sake is the best way to taste. 12.Remaining sludge can be used to cook vegetable pickles in a refrigerator.Cucumber is the most suitable vegetable. If real "Amasake" is available (sake sludge mixed with suger is not real amasake),directly pitch dry yeast in a bottle.You can brew Sake. In Japan,at present,fermenting more than 1% alcohol without license is illegal. Before world war one,I heard that every family had been enjoying home sake brewing. It was the Japanese culture. But the war destroyed the culture too. At present,members of " Homebrew News Letter" is only less than 300.It is supposed that about ten thousand homebrewers exist in Japan.We do not always brew beers but sometimes Sake. Just two years ago the minimum amount of beer production was reduced from 2000kl/year to 60kl/year by the pressure from the USA. It was the beginning of small local beer brewers. We,most of general Japanese people, are wanting more pressure from the USA for free homebrew and for free trade. Commercial Sake brewers use very expensive materials such as 50% polished specially selected kind of rice,which looks very small crystal beads because of the excessive polishing process. We never eat such a rice, we usually eat normally slightly polished normal rice grown only for eating. When I visited Sake brewer near my house,the manager told me that he tried to eat that sake rice but that it was not tasty. Homebrew Sake is very simple to make and satisfactorily tasty if you do not compare with commercial real Sake. I heard that US Sake brewer produce only real Sake because of US tax law.Real Sake means Sake only from rice.In Japan, tax law allows mixture of so called industrial ethyl alcohol to Sake within a certain percentage.Real sake (Junmaishu) is very expensive. I hope you enjoy homebrew Sake. Mutsuo Hoshido Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 95 09:47:29 GMT From: "Frank R. Oppedijk" <fro at vicorp.nl> Subject: Stopping run-off, 'cos cup overflow error Hi all, In HBD #1829, korz at pubs.ih.att.com wrote about recirculating early runnings when lautering: (snip) >I use a small measureing cup for >catching the early runnings and therefore I can again gently lay down the >runnings back into the top of the laeuter tun without aeration or disturbing >the grain bed too much. I must admit that there is a disadvantage to the >small measureing cup in that I have to stop the runnoff between cups of >runnings. I have to think more about solving this problem since starting >and stopping the runnings has a tendancy to un-seat the grain bed a little >each time. Think about using 2 small cups so you can alternate. This way you won't have to stop the run-off any more. Just a small hint from this long-time lurker (finally I can contribute something to this high-quality digest. Keep up the good work, guys!). Brew on! Frank _____________________________________________________________ Frank R. Oppedijk froppedijk at vicorp.nl / fro at vicorp.nl Software Engineer Vicorp Benelux, Utrecht, The Netherlands Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 95 20:20:32 +1000 From: CHARLIE SCANDRETT <merino at ozemail.com.au> Subject: What's Under Tomorrow's Lid ? First, thanks for the thoughtful and interesting replies to my boiling questions from, Jim Busch, Algis Korzonas, Steven Lichtenberg, and Philip Gravel. It seems that, High pressure/temp (150C) boils must be brief to avoid excessive melanoiden or caramelization reactions. Alfa Laval doesn't boil at this temp, they just hold it for 2 monutes. They boil at 80C. I understand the difference between batch and continous processes. However with the tiny ammounts that homebrewers brew, we can approximate an increment of the continous process if there is an advantage. I can go to 140C "instantly" as I have a 3000kW steam boiler! However it is more convenient to go from 100C to 140c in 10 minutes with a 35kW gas burner and then flash cool to 80C by releasing the pressure and hooking up a 15litre/ min diaphram pump and lowering the pressure to 1 ATM.. It also seems hot break is pressure dependent, the higher the better. I'll find out why, I've emailed Alfa Laval.. Complete sterilization is possible at elevated temps. If the desirable isomerization of hop bittering compounds and the protein break are accelerated in the short time at 140C, and a prolonged 80C boil does the DMS removal well (SMM coverts to DMS at >70C), the high temp/low temp combination may result in significant melanoid and caramel reduction. I have set up a test and when my gas fitters are finished I will "boil" three different ways and have the resulting wort analysed by our university. If I post a positive conclusion in about 2 months, it will be relatively easy for a homebrewer to emulate the technique in part. The average beer keg can be used as a pressure vessel to 3 ATM, and a diaphram pump can be picked up cheaply. The reason for my heavy metal approach to brewing techniques is my increasing allergy to some staling compounds in beer and wine. I can become violently ill on 1 litre of badly brewed or old beer. It was Sulphur headaches that drove me to building heat exchangers. I am becoming an anti-oxidation and clean brew freak, I am researching every aspect of oxidation or off flavour production I can find. I am compiling a "Fresh Beer Guide" on every point of possible oxidation, if other members would like to contribute their wisdom it would be appreciated. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 08:36:37 -0500 (EDT) From: greg at kgn.ibm.com (Greg Holton) Subject: Keg fittings > ... > >------------------------------ > > I have a very similar setup except I believe I used 3/8" nipple, a > couple of additional comments on construction. > > You should get a 'hole saw' for stainless steel to fit a hand drill in > order to make the hole. SS is very tough to drill. I believe that > 5/8" is the proper size for a 3/8" pipe. > > I've found thick nylon washers at my local hardware store which are > the proper size to act as the inside gasket in place of the copper > gaskets Greg cleverly made. I forgot to mention in my arrangement that the copper pipe cap that serves as a metal gasket is left whole in the case of the mash tun. The strainer arrangement consists of the appropriate sized copper pipe slipped into the pipe cap on the inside and secured with a brass screw. The pipe runs the length of the bottom of the keg, with a 90 deg elbow on the end facing down for support. The pipe is drilled with MANY 1/16" holes. After much experimentation, I found that this arrangement worked much better for sparging than others, such as hacksaw cuts in copper tubing. | 2" drilled copper pipe | | | pipe cap doubles as gasket | | | | | | v | / adapter: 3/8 compression | V | / to 1/2" pipe thread | | / | ___________________________________---| / __ 1/2" ball valve | | | =_______ _| | | |_____________________________ =-------| |=== \ flare fitting | | | ---| 3" nipple | for copper tubing | | | <-- 90 deg elbow w/cap | |_|___|_________________________________| Greg Holton Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 07:26:38 MST-0700 From: "Dave Ebert" <Dave.Ebert at UCHSC.edu> Subject: Saving $$$ on yeast I understand the need to save $$$ when brewing but I think an easy way for getting the most bang for the buck has been overlooked. I smack a fresh pack of Wyeast and prepare about 1 gallon of 1.030 wort that has been highly aerated and supplemented with a good dose of yeast nutrient. When the yeast pack has swollen properly I pitch the yeast. Ferment lock in place, I let 'er go for about 10 days. I carefully rouse the slurry back into solution and siphon the fluid into 11 12oz bottles. I cap them, label them, and place them in the fridge. When I get ready to brew a new batch, I pull one of my yeast bottles from the fridge, transfer the contents to a 22 oz bomber, top it off with fresh wort, and put on a ferment lock. The next day I brew and then pitch the 22oz of high krausen yeast. This method gives me 11 batches from a single pack of yeast. That does not count any repitches of the slurry on the bottom of the carboy! YMMV Dave Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 95 14:04:15 -0400 From: "Jim Webb" <"webb_j%Organization=Mineral Sector Analysis Branch%Telephone=705-670-5889" at a1.torv05.umc> Subject: Warmed Beer [This message is converted from WPS-PLUS to ASCII] Carl Etnier was inquiring about warmed ales. Although I know nothing of the Viking brews, and haven't tasted a heated brew, I have a little family history that I grew up with that may be of interest. Hanging beside my grandmother's fireplace (and now hanging beside my brother's fireplace) was/is a copper cone, about 12 inches tall, about 6 inches in diameter at the top, with a handle on the side (mug-style). My gram called this (apparently rare) antique a 'beer warmer'. An ale would be poured into the implement along with spices, and jammed into the coals of the fire to warm. This was the more genteel method than the standard practice of plunging a hot fire-poker into your mug. As I recall - and is written in Websters - 'wassail' is a hot, spiced ale traditionally drunk around Christmas. Jim Webb Sudbury Ontario Canada Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 08:25:48 -0500 From: rich.adam at mayo.edu (Adam Rich) Subject: ageing Hello, Some tiem ago I posted regarding problems with ageing... My beer is best for a window of time, say between 2-6 weeks old. I suspect, after mulling over many responses, that the primary concern is oxidation. This could occur during handling of the hot wort (HSA), or at bottling. Either way, the end result is relatively unstable beer that may taste good at first but then rapidly declines. One 'supposed' signiture of oxidation is that the hops aroma/ flavor is lost first, then sherry-like flavors begin to pop up. Note that I store beer in my basement, with temperatures ranging from 65 to 75 F. Now, this past weekend I was lurking in a friends basment refridge and found 3 older bottles of beer that I made. My supplies of these particular batches have long since been metabolized. So, I was extremly interested to see how these bottles 'aged'. Well, they taste pretty good, sort of as they tasted when they were 'in the window'! Obviously the oxidation/ ageing reactions are slowed down thu spreserving the desired beer characteristics. One additional note, the beer was all crystal clear! I have admired this in others beer at our local homebrew club meetings. The response, 'my beer always comes out this way' by the knowledgeable (read arrogant) all-grain brewer was crap. He ages in the 'fridge. I must admit that I have more recently altered my brew schedule and gone to a partial mash, thus improving the overall quality a great deal (in my opinion). However, this tasting was an eye opener for me. The moral is, age at cool temperature if it is possible. Otherwise, don't save any! This is a bummer, for me, since I enjoy haveing 2-3 styles on-hand which means I brew 3 weekends in a row, take 2-3 weeks off, then brew agin. However, storeing 4-5 cases is no good at my basement temperature. Someday, when I get a real job, I'll buy a beer 'fridge! best of luck, Adam Adam Rich: richa at mayo.edu Department of Physiology and Biophysics Guggenheim 9, Mayo Foundation Rochester, MN 55905 507-284-0879 (lab)/ 507-252-8115 (home) Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 09:41:25 EDT From: pbabcock at e-mail.com Subject: Thanks, oh yeasty ones! THIS IS A CORPORATE DOCUMENT - YOU KNOW THE DRILL.... Pat Babcock Internet: pbabcock at e-mail.com Bronco Plant Vehicle Team - Body Construction Assembly Engineer Subject: Thanks, oh yeasty ones! Thanks to all who have responded to my yeast questions posed in HBD #1827. The information was enlightening! I will not summarize as all responses were contained in subsequent issues of the HBD... And Dan: Keep on that soap box! I agree that repitching is the most realistic way in which we homebrewers can attain proper pitching rates. This ties in well with the discussions regarding storage of the yeast cake from the primary and/or secondary fermentor: If your brewing schedule doesn't permit immediate reuse of the yeast cake, store it for future use! Thanks again! Oh, and check out my new home page at http://oeonline.com/~pbabcock/howdy.html IYWIDRTYMJFDIY Best regards, Patrick G. Babcock Michigan Truck Plant PVT Office (313)46-70842 (V) -70843 (F) 38303 Michigan Wayne,MI 48184 Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 09:53:59 +0500 ET From: "Keith Royster" <N1EA471 at mro.ehnr.state.nc.us> Subject: WYeast 1338 / Hot break In a recent issue of the HBD someone commented that they had used WYeast 1338 (European Ale) in a batch and had noticed it to be quite slow. They commented that the slap pack was slow to swell, the starter was slow to start, and that once pitched in the batch of beer, had a fairly long lag time. A few others then responded to the HBD stating that they had similar experiences and concluded that it was normal for this yeast. I would like to add a data point to this by explaining my very different experience with this yeast. In a recent batch of Holiday Cheer (Papazian) that is currently fermenting in my fridge, I used this yeast. The slap-pack swelled inside of 24 hours and the starter was at high kreusen in 24 hours. Furthermore, I split the starter in half since I had made a 10 gallon batch in 2 carboys. The starter was pitched at about 10:30 pm and was already at high kreusen (spewing out of the air locks and running down the carboys!) the next morning less than 12 hours later. The only time I have seen a quicker and more vigorous fermentation is when I repitched the yeast sediment from a previous batch. Besides relating another data point for this yeast, I am telling you this because it possibly relates to a comment made by Rolland Everitt in HBD #1830. > "The work of Wildiers...showed in 1901 that some yeasts would not > grow in simple synthetic media, unless there was added a little of > either an old culture fluid, or an extract of yeast cells; <snip> > Wildiers' results were confirmed in 1919, and the stimulation of > yeast growth..has come to be called the bios effect." *** > He goes on to identify the "bios factors" - they are vitamins. I found this interesting because, when making my starter, I noticed a bottle of multi-vitamins sitting on the kitchen counter and thought, "what the heck...it couldn't hurt" and crushed one and added it to the boiling wort. Also, in preparation for pitching into 10 gallons I added about 3/4 cup of corn sugar to the starter (in addition to 3/4 cup of DME) to give the yeasties a little boost. I wonder if the addition of these vitamins could partially explain why this yeast responded so well, contrary to others' experiences. Any comments? - ---------------------- Kirk Fleming comments: > ..and what puzzles me is that several (I think) homebrew books talk about > having to boil for about 30 min to generate the hot break. I've found > the hot break *always* forms prior to the onset of the boil, and *never* > appears afterward. Anyone else seen that statement? Comments please! I have not noticed this reference to 30 mins in any books, but perhaps I have just over looked it. In my experiences, the hot break always forms at the beginning of the boil, within the first 5 or 10 minutes. As soon as my wort begins to boil it tries to boil-over because of the surface tension caused by the un-flocculated proteins holding the bubbles together better. So I adjust the boil by backing the heat off in an attempt to continue boiling without boiling-over (doesn't always work =)). Within about five minutes the foam settles down because the hot break has occurred, thus removing a lot of proteins from solution and lessening the surface tension. I can then crank the heat back up to a rolling boil without worrying about a boil-over. Am I incorrect in believing that this is when the hot break is occuring? Am I missing something? - ------------- One last thing: should I conclude from the silence to my request for info on how to duplicate Red Seal Ale that nobody knows much about it? I know how to make a Pale Ale, but this wonderful beer seems to have a unique hop flavor that I would like to know more about. Besides what kind of hops, I would also like to know if it is acheived by dry hopping, hop backing, or just as finishing hops. TIA. Keith Royster: KRoyster at mro.ehnr.state.nc.us Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 95 10:11:33 EST From: Tim_Fields_at_Relay__Tech__Vienna at relay.com Subject: Hawaii Beer Update My original posting RE beer in Hawaii was swallowed by the AI robot in it's recent death throws; so here is an abbreviated version. I found little info re beer in Hawaii via HBD archive search, so this will hopefully assist future queries. Thanks to Jim Overstreet for nudging me into reposting (and retyping :-) It goes without saying: Std disclaimers, the following is MO - go taste 'em for yourself! WWW page for the Hawaiian Food & Beverage Industry: http://www.lava.net:80/~brew/ Lots of good stuff. I visited 2 micros and one brewpub: ALI'I Brewing Company (micro) 500 Alakawa Street, #200 Hololulu, HI 96817 808-841-4883 Located on cannery row near the Dole pineapple canning factory - an *absolute must see*, this small micro is brewing some really good beer. Real "beer people", as opposed to the "build-it-to-go-public-and-make-money" type. Far and away my favorite of the 3 establishments visited. Samples served in _mugs_:-) ("Hey, You've got to have enough for a good taste"). Don't expect a fancy brewery - do expect quality brew. Ali-i beers are hard to find - limited production and distribution. BUT they told me that will improve. Beers tasted: Amber Ale (*REALLY REALLY REALLY* good) Pineapple Pale Ale (ok; a little too pineapply for my taste) Mango Wheat (I like mangos, this was *GREAT*! Just a hint of mango). Porter (also very good) Barley Wine ("private stock", "ties up the equipment too long to be cost effective", good stuff! :-) Others they make that were not being brewed during my visit: Macadamia Nut Brown Ale Kona Coffee Stout Kona Brewing Company (micro, seemed to be "marketing driven" as opposed to "beer" driven, samples served in little cups :-( 75-5629 Kuakini Highway Kailua-Kona, HI 96740 Beers tasted: Golden Ale (ok) Fire Rock Pale Ale (hoppy, pretty good, but kind of mono-flavored) Others they make: none at this time Gordon Biersch Brewing Company (brew pub, they will give out decent-sized samples) Aloha Tower Marketplace 101 Ala Moana Blvd # 1123 Hololulu, HI 96813 808-599 4877 (voice) 808-599-8433 (fax) Beers tasted: Export (lighter color, pretty good) Marzen (pretty good) Dunkel (pretty good) Others they make: Hefeweizen, and probably some more occasionally Misc: the Maui Brewing Company (whale ale and another ale): beer made on the mainland; not in HI. I tried the whale ale anyway-std mega brewery stuff. Cool label, tho. All three establishments visited had been in business 2 yrs or less. -Tim Tim Fields ... Vienna, VA, USA ... timf at relay.com "Contemplate this on the Tree of Woe" ... Thulsa Doom "So many recipes, so little time" ... most everyone "beers me" ... me "reeb!" ... Cask-conditioned Cole and Old Speckled Clyde Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 08:33:32 -0700 From: RANDY ERICKSON <RANDYE at mid.org> Subject: Yet another Pub/Micro Request I will be in the Warrendale/Pittsburgh PA area early next week. Anyone know of any "must check out" pubs, micros, bars, etc.? Thanks All -- Randy Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 95 9:38:02 CDT From: "richard myers" <Richard=Myers%Corp=Admin=Sys%IM=Hou at bangate.compaq.com> Subject: ...no subject... - --- Start Quote Okay, I may have brewed my first bad batch (it's only my 4th batch). The beer is real cloudy which suggests bacterial infection, but there was no deposit ring on the bottle. The beer does not taste like it's supposed to (it's a weizen). The beer could be better but it does not taste bad. My question is "can I still drink it?" The beer is definitely drinkable (although not the best tasting batch I've brewed). Will the bacteria make me ill or is the beer not really infected? I would hate to have to pour out 5 gallons of beer. - --- End Quote Yes... A weizen may (should) be cloudy. If the beer tastes ok then drink up. If the beer tastes bad pitch it. I am currently "pitching" a bad batch because I can not stand the flavor. I did have one other "bad" batch - which tasted fine (it showed the "ring" and had unidentifiable floating chunkies (techinical term :-) ). The advice I got from my HomeBrew store was - "If you can drink it do so, if not pour it out". They then added, "If it is infected drink it fast - it will only get worse". For the record, this batch became infected from a siphon problem (got clogged every 5 minutes and had to be restarted). I gave up on the batch and continued on through the process just to see what would happen. The first bad batch was a bottle infection (some of the bottles had a problem some were fine - still don't know why, they were all cleaned the same way.) Richard Myers Anxiously waiting for my latest American Amber Ale to carbonate and age - in the bottle. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 95 11:17:28 -0400 From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu> Subject: RE: Warmed beer? Carl Etnier, "A Yankee in Sweden (now on assignment in Switzerland, beer purgatory)" asks about warmed beer. I believe this was common in England centuries ago. I remember a scene early in the movie "Lion in Winter." The plotters against Henry VIII met in a tavern, and one of them pulled a hot poker out of the fire, plunged it into his mug of ale, and left it there until it was steaming. I thought at the time that this would probably also introduce soot and flaked iron into the ale. English ale back then was typically much stronger in OG than now (>1.080), probably cloudy with yeast and suspended starch and protein from poor mashing and sparging techniques, sweeter (higher FG), and unhopped. Probably a much different drink warm or cool than anything we have now. Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan c/o nerenner at umich.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 95 08:16:00 PDT From: Steve Armbrust <Steve_Armbrust at ccm.jf.intel.com> Subject: Carbonation problems Tim Fields complains of carbonation problems even when he used a lot of priming sugar. A few weeks ago, I reported that my English Bitter (using Wyeast 1968) was flat and that a yeast layer seemed glued to the bottom of the bottles. As a test, I took some of the unopened bottles and swirled them until I loosened the yeast layer from the bottoms. I left both swirled and unswirled in my cellar for a week. Then I refrigerated some of each. The swirled ones were carbonated and the unswirled ones weren't. You might try shaking some of the bottles to see if getting the yeast back in suspension will help. Steve Armbrust Steve_Armbrust at ccm.jf.intel.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 08:28:15 -0700 From: jfrane at teleport.com (Jeff Frane) Subject: Re: Wyeast 3068 Mark Roberson asked: > I have gotten conflicting advice about the 3068 Weihenstephan wheat yeast; >I have it in my head that in order to maximise the clove character you should >keep the fermentation temperature below 50F, but the guy at the brew shop >swears that it is an ale yeast which will poop out below 60F. I've cruised >everywhere I can think of on the net, without learning anything. > Would anyone have any advice? > Oddly enough, the shop guy was right! It appears that the truest weizen flavor is generated by that yeast (assuming everything else -- grist, etc. - -- is correct), when the fermentation is held around 68F. Below that, it doesn't generate the right compounds, although I'll have to say that in my experience it didn't generate much banana, either. The yeast tends to produce clove and vanilla. A friend did his first fermentation in a fridge, that held the ferment at 65F and the beer was way too mild. At an ambient temperature of 68F (which presumes the actual temperature of fermentation is maybe 5F higher), the flavor was spot on. - --Jeff Frane Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 11:31:58 EDT From: rich.byrnes at e-mail.com Subject: H2O Measurements/Paint Stirrers FROM: Rich Byrnes Subject: H2O Measurements/Paint Stirrers Hey everyone; First off I got 2 private E-mail responses on my inquiry of using an industrial paint stirrer for wort chilling and aeration assistance,both (Spence Thomas and ???oops) said it sounded good, but wait til the wort was below 100F (or even 80-90) to start whipping air into it. One other person answered online with a concern for lead solder, it's possible, guess I'll find a lead test kit unless someone else knows an easy way to check for lead solder, if it is lead, can it be coated with silver solder to seal it? <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Now for my question, using a "pico" type system with a raised copper false bottom, how do you measure your water for the mash, if you generally use 1.25 qts per pound or grist, is that 1.25 quarts above the false bottom? My mash tun holds 2.6 gallons of water under the screens, how does this come into the measurements? I've only had the system built for a few weeks and just did my first solo all grain batch this weekend (a wheat beer w/ a step mash schedule, piece of cake, I don't know why I waited this long to make the jump into all graining!) So I appeal to all the experienced all-grainers with 1/2bbl mash tuns for advice and wisdom. TIA Rich Byrnes Founder: Fermental Order of Renaissance Draughtsmen ignore the next 4 lines, I ususlly do! Regards,_Rich Byrnes Jr B&AO Pre-Production Color Unit \\\|/// phone #(313)323-2613, fax #390-4520 (.) (.) Rich.Byrnes at E-mail.com_____________________o000__(_)__000o Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 95 11:24:30 EDT From: dipalma at sky.com (Jim Dipalma) Subject: Re: 3068, roasting, scum Hi All, In HBD#1830, Mark Roberson asks: >I have gotten conflicting advice about the 3068 Weihenstephan wheat yeast; >I have it in my head that in order to maximise the clove character you should >keep the fermentation temperature below 50F, but the guy at the brew shop >swears that it is an ale yeast which will poop out below 60F. >Would anyone have any advice? > I ask because I did my previous batch at 58F and got almost complete >banana flavor with little detectable clove; I've had pretty good success fermenting with this yeast at 60F-62F. This strain does seem to produce a lot more banana than clove, a little too much so IMHO. Keeping fermentation temps in the low 60s helps to keep ester production down somewhat, while still producing a reasonable clove character. The last batch of dunkelweizen I brewed was a 22 gallon brewlength, split with fellow HBDer Lee Menegoni. We split it into 4 carboys, pitched 3068 and Andechs weiss yeast. Lee fermented his in the high 60s, I fermented mine in the low 60s, and his 3068-pitched beer had considerably more banana ester than mine. In this case, 5-7 degrees made a noticeable difference. ************************************************************** Also in HBD#1830, Russell Mast asks: >Brings to mind another question - is there a difference between chocolate >malt and black patent malt BESIDES the degree of roasting? Not to my knowledge. Both chocolate and black patent are malted (as opposed to roasted barley, which is not), then kilned at different temperatures, typically 80F-100F apart. >If you have a >"chocolate" malt from one maltster than weighs in at 500L, is that a better >match for another maltsters 550L "black patent" or a better match for their >300L chocolate? Over the years, I've seen chocolate malt with ratings that ranged from 300L to 500L, this is clearly an *enormous* difference. Consequently, I have gotten distinctly different color and roasted malt flavor contributions from chocolate malt from different maltsters. This makes it a little tricky getting batch-to-batch consistency in beers that use a high percentage of chocolate malt, such as porters and stouts. ************************************************************** Kirk writes: >>Al K writes: > The scum is actually the infamous Hot Break. > ..and what puzzles me is that several (I think) homebrew books talk about >having to boil for about 30 min to generate the hot break. I've found >the hot break *always* forms prior to the onset of the boil, and *never* >appears afterward. Anyone else seen that statement? Comments please! What I've read of this is that hot break formation is not a distinct point, but occurs throughout the boil. Much break material forms early in the boil, rather less as the boil proceeds and there is less soluble protein in the wort to coagulate and precipitate. Comments?? Cheers, Jim dipalma at sky.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed Sep 13 11:29:55 1995 From: rik at astea.com Subject: Wild Goose intrigue What is the general impression of Wild Goose brewery out there? Has anyone tasted these beers? Have you noticed the distinct smokey-buttery characteristic that all Wild Goose products seem to have? I've tried Wild Goose IPA, Wild Goose Wheat, and several others (I forget which ones) but they all had this characteristic. What causes it? I can't even decide if I like it or not, but it is very distinct. Is there anyway to recreate this via homebrew? (That is, if I decide I like it ;)) On a related note, I saw someone mention Red Seal Ale in a recent HBD. In my opinion this is one of the best beer's in America, and one of the best breweries in America. IF you get a chance try their other products (North Coast Brewery, Mendocino, CA) like Old No. 38 Stoudt, and Scrimshaw Pilsener, and thank me later. Rick What no homebrew??? Get me some Rogue and some malt...and hurry! Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1831, 09/14/95