HOMEBREW Digest #1862 Fri 20 October 1995

Digest #1861 Digest #1863

		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor

  John Palmer (WattsBrew)
  Styles or Lack Thereof ("Richard Scotty")
  Re: White spots/stuck mead (ED IACIOFANO)
  bulk head fitting ? ("Frederick L. Pauly")
  Tidbits & Rye (IHomeBrew)
  Green Solutions ("Palmer.John")
  Re: Milking Equipment ("John P. Linton")
  More mash temps (John Girard)
  RIMS Clarification, You'd Hope ("Fleming, Kirk R., Capt")
  pumpkin beer (KrisPerez)
  Mash out (MR SCOTT H MOBERG)
  Celsius to Farenheit (Elizabeth Blades)
  freezers vs fridges, cleaning immersion chillers (Jim Dipalma)
  Airstat Zener and Scotch Ale (Wayne Hocking)
  Road Dog Ale .jpg (Gregory Ziegler)
  leaky keg (Tim Laatsch)
  Help... stuck brew ("Ed Lustenader")
  Re: Aluminum brewpot ("John Lifer, Jr.")
  Re: Home Brewing Without Failures by H. E. Bravery (Dave Thayer)
  Wort cooling the slack way (Derrick Pohl)
  mason jars / bitterness (MR MARK W LEVESQUE)
  Storage temp of Ales (Rian Rademeyer)
  Re: Two-litre Pop Chiller? ("Michael D. Fairbrother")
  Styles Vs Eclecticism (CHARLIE SCANDRETT)
  RE: Sanatizing question/Pumpkin Ale/Book ? (MClarke950)
  re: Concrete Rollers (Robert Waterfall)
  Those Pesky Labels ("Dan Wilson")
  Re: Concrete Roller (Paul A. Hausman)
  Fermentation question (William H. Kitt, Jr.)
  Finnings (sp?) (DC)
  Coming up roses (Pierre Jelenc)
  iodophor = ? (Craig Amundsen)
  Vienna malt---Has the guality improved? ("Michael R. Swan")

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 09:51:39 -0400 From: WattsBrew at aol.com Subject: John Palmer Did anyone else see John Palmer on "What's Your Hobby" on HGTV last night? The show is about hobby's and last night they did homebrewing. That is quite a brewery you have built for yourself, John. Congrats on your 15 minutes of fame. Bill Watt, Clarence Center, NY (Wattsbrew at aol.com) Return to table of contents
Date: 18 Oct 1995 08:06:05 -0700 From: "Richard Scotty" <richard_scotty at msmgate.mrg.uswest.com> Subject: Styles or Lack Thereof I don't know if this exactly fits the current discussion on styles, but did anyone else attending the GABF notice that there were no less than 5 styles of "American Lagers" defined? These are the style categories that the big three (and virtually no one else) compete in. This year we had: American Lager, American Light Lager, American Premium Lager, American Specialty Lager and American Malt Liquor. I can discern no significant difference among the first four of these "styles" and wonder why the AOB has set up these categories other than to be able to award medals to the big three (Yes Miller, of all the beers that don't taste like anything, yours doesn't taste like anything the best?) While an arguement can be made that American Lager is a legitimate category, why is it so finely parsed? I can't tell the difference between Red Dog (gold medal winner??) and Miller Genuine Draft, yet they are entered in separate categories. Meanwhile, the American Amber Ale category had 99 entries. This is where further style delineation could and should be made. So, I propose that the American Lager categories be consolidated into a single category since they all taste the same anyway and that we sub-divide the most popular category of real ales to allow further distinction. This is not in any way intended to be a slam against the GABF or the AOB. They do one hell of a job and I'm certain that putting together the GABF is a logistic nightmare. I just wanted to float this out there for further discussion. Rich Scotty Spent Grain Disposal Specialist - The Crapshoot Brewery Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 10:33:26 -0400 From: iaciofano at leds.enet.qntm.com (ED IACIOFANO) Subject: Re: White spots/stuck mead Rolland Everitt writes about white spots in his bottles: >...I used >Edme dried ale yeast for that batch, and am still wondering >what the spots are all about, ... Gosh Rolland, have you been in my basement? I used two packs of EDME ale yeast for each of my last two batches, a stout and a brown ale. Each beer has white spots in the beer around the neck of *some* of the bottles. Because it seemed random I thought that the problem was dirty/infected bottles. The beer smelled fine and foamed like crazy when I poured it down the sink... I used EDME ale yeast because it was quick and came in 11g packs. I think I'll be going back to the liquid packs even if this problem is only yeast floating around. /////////////// Brian Travis writes about a mead that won't start fermenting: >Perhaps I should note that the original batch from which the yeast was >salvaged started at 1.088 OG and at racking to secondary was .992 gravity. ... >The batch that failed to "ignite" is a higher gravity "sweet mead" with 7.5 >pounds of raspberrys and 20 lbs of "generic" honey (OG 1.135). ... Yikes! 1.135?!?!? Your yeast probably croaked from osmotic pressure, being dumped from a 0.992 gravity liquid to a 1.135 must. Think of how you'd feel if you dove from air into a pool of wet cement. From what I've learned, yeast (even wine yeast) don't like starting gravities that high. One way around this might be to acclimate the yeast through starters of increasing starting gravity, perhaps 1.05 to 1.10 to the 1.135 must. Also, a starting gravity of 1.135 puts your potential alcohol at about 17.5%. You'll be bumping the upper limit of wine yeast alcohol tolerance. A few suggestions: With 20 lbs. of honey in solution, your champaigne yeast may poop out with too much sugar left. The Prise de Mousse (Lalvin EC-1118) strain is a champaigne yeast that should be able to go to 18% alcohol and is a fast fermenter. Use at least 10g. for five gallons. I suggest fermenting around 60 deg F, this *may* reduce production of harsh high order alcohols. You may need more than 1t of yeast nutrient; two or three more will probably not affect the final flavor. Yeast hulls are very good, and cheep. If all else fails, dillute the must down to 1.100 and ferment. /Ed_I Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 11:02:00 -0400 From: "Frederick L. Pauly" <flp2m at galen.med.virginia.edu> Subject: bulk head fitting ? I'm looking for a brass,stainless, or high temp plastic bulk head fitting with 1/4" female NPT treads. Does anyone know where I can get such a fitting. I have a thermometer for my hot water tank with 1/4" male NPT threads. Rick Pauly Nuclear Med Tech Charlottesville, VA Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 11:31:49 -0400 From: IHomeBrew at aol.com Subject: Tidbits & Rye All, Miscellaneous tidbits concerning recent threads... **************************** Tim, here are your metric/American conversion formulas: Celsius = 5/9(Farenheit - 32) Farenheit = (9/5*Celsius) - 32 **************************** Someone asked about brewing schools a few days ago: American Brewer's Guild 2110 Regis Dr. Davis, CA 95616 Contact: Maria Tebbutt 916-753-0497 FAX 916-753-0176 American Craftbrewers Academy 23883 Madison St. Torrance, CA 90505 Contact: Jean Pugh 310-375-2739 FAX 310-373-6097 American School for Malting & Brewing Science & Technology University Extension, UC Davis Davis, CA 95616 Contact: Debbie Roberts 916-757-8899 FAX 916-757-8634 California State University, Stanislaus 801 West Monte Vista Ave. Turlock, CA 95382 Contact: Liz Graham 209-667-3111 FAX 209-667-3299 Siebel Institute of Technology 4055 West Peretson Ave. Chicago, IL 60646 312-463-3400 FAX 312-463-4962 **************************** Todd, To answer your question about breweries injecting oxygen into their cooled wort, go back and reread some of the threads from the past couple of HBDs about injecting/aerating wort with the use of a small aquarium pump. **************************** Bruce, There is a nice little discussion about how to make low/no alcohol beer in Papazian's _The_Homebrewer's_Companion_ on pages 370-372. Distillation, reverse osmosis, yeast "management" and special yeasts are the way in which to do it. **************************** Does anyone have a good all-grain recipe for a rye beer (like Redhook's Rye)? Sorry to take up so much bandwidth! ...Clark in Tacoma Return to table of contents
Date: 18 Oct 1995 08:37:52 U From: "Palmer.John" <palmer at ssdgwy.mdc.com> Subject: Green Solutions Don asked about the green-ness of the solution after brass cleaning has proceeded too long. The green is from the copper and is a result of the copper being oxidized by the hydrogen peroxide, and the oxides being dissolved by the acetic acid. What a person is shooting for is to immerse the brass item for as long as it takes to dissolve of the surface oxides and lead, but remove it before the solution has nothing to act on but the clean brass (and the copper constituent). The part is not damaged at all, though to restore the butter gold appearence you need to scrub the surface with cleanser and re-soak it in fresh solution. Once the solution has turned green, the solution is no longer usable. Coating your threads with teflon tape is a very good idea when joining dissimilar metals. Grounding the copper might make it worse, it depends on what metals you have joined and whether there is any charge across them. By grounding one of them, you might in essence complete a circuit and have vigorous galvanic corrosion take place. John J. Palmer - Metallurgist for MDA-SSD M&P johnj at primenet.com Huntington Beach, California Palmer House Brewery and Smithy - www.primenet.com/~johnj/ Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 95 10:35 EST From: "John P. Linton" <0003726529 at mcimail.com> Subject: Re: Milking Equipment Last week a came across a pile of old milking equipment. It mainly consisted of 2 to 3 gal. SS canisters with a handle on top that resembled an oversized hot water kettle that is commonly used to heat water on a stove for tea, instant coffee, etc. There were also several 5 gal. glass containers that had a 1.5-2" hole in both the top and bottom and also the side offset to one end. With these items there was an assortment of glass pipe. I am quit new to HBing (currently on my third batch of extract brew) and am not quite sure if these items could be of use at some point and time in my HBing future. Being the packrat that my wife accuses me of being, I am wondering if I should cart the lot home and find a place in the attic to store this stuff. If anyone has used these items or knows of a use, I would appreciate all responses. Thanks. PS. I already have (2) 5 gal glass carboys for 2nd fermentations. and a 16 qt brew pot. jl Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 09:23:02 -0700 (PDT) From: sprmario at netcom.com (John Girard) Subject: More mash temps I have been closely following mash temperature discussions, and have a few questions I wanted to pose. As I understand it (and someone please correct me if I'm wrong), one of the benefits of a 60-70C (140-158F) step program is that it allows for more control over enzymatic activity. This is because 60 and 70C fall squarely in the zones for beta- and alpha-amylase activity, respectively? I assume that because a rest at 65C leads to more combined (alpha and beta) activity it is thus less predictable? Also, was reviewing some old posts by George Fix that discuss his 40-60-70 program for highly modified malts. Have others duplicated his results (i.e., much increased yield over a 50-60-70 or 60-70 program)? Among other things, Fix mentioned that he witnessed a threefold increase in the rate of the increase in SG in this mash. I paired this with a post by someone the other day (Jeff Renner?) who suggested that with his set-up a 15 min rest at 60C, then a boost to 70 for 45 (?) minutes produced a (dextrinous), malty sweet brew, while a 45 min rest at 60C, then boost to 70 yielded a drier product. My question: does anyone have any data on the effect of the 40C rest on the maltiness of the finished product? Seems to me that if such a step increases the rate of starch conversion, one would want to spend proportionally *less* time at 60C to produce as dextrinous a wort as would be produced in a longer rest at 60C *not* preceded by the 40C rest. Whew! I think I got that right.. Any thoughts? -John Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 95 10:29:00 MST From: "Fleming, Kirk R., Capt" <FLEMINGKR at afmcfafb.fafb.af.mil> Subject: RIMS Clarification, You'd Hope In #1860 in reference to the temperature of the recirculated wort exiting the heat application region, I said: > ...it's THIS temperature that absolutely cannot be allowed to go > above the setpoint (at least not by some unknown amount). Well, that parenthetical comment was a little confusing. I'll try to clarify. If you want a rest at say, 155F, then in a recirculating system I assert that you don't want the wort coming off the heating element at 157F, for example. Now, iff the system were steady-state throughout the entire mash, you could then just bias your setpoint down to ensure the wort off the heater was no higher than 155F. However, when you do a ramp you may not know ahead of time how much that overtemp amount is, and even if you find out what it is, it's not likely to be the same value for ramps started at different temps. This is what was behind the parenthetical comment. Now, with a PID controller the liquid *at the thermocouple* will never exceed the setpoint. IMO then, the thermocouple has to be at the location where the wort is hottest. If not, then there is some proportion of total mash time spent at some temp which is higher than the desired mash temp. [This time proportion could be computed if you knew the 1) time the overheated volume of wort dV spent overheated, 2) the recirculation flow rate, and 3) the total mash volume. I think this would be a tough nut to crack outside the lab.] Again, I think one system design goal is to minimize the temperature delta across the heating region--that delta will vanish as the recirc rate goes to infinity, so you, The Engineer, must find the happy medium. Keith Royster asked a related question: > How do you keep from denaturing your enzymes by over heating, or > is this not a real concern? *I* think it's a real concern in system design for the reason I just suggested: overheating represents, in effect, a time-proportioned rest at that over temp condx. IOW, if the wort passes thru the chamber, goes 4F over setpoint and spends 1 min at that temperature, then with continuous recirculation you have an n-minute rest at 4F over. Now, in practice here's what actually happens with my setup. The wort is heated by direct fire as it passes over the bottom of the Sankey keg. The flow pattern is radial from all points directly to the center of the bottom, into a pickup pipe, vertically upward through the false bottom and then out the side where is flows over a stainless bi-metal probe. When I see the needle on the 3" dial drop 1/2F, I hit the burner. Over the following 50-60s I see the needle climb to 1/2F overtemp and cut off the burner. Over the following 9-10 min the needle gradually drops to 1/2F below setpoint, and I fire that mutha again. Since flow is continuous (and probably nearly 3 gpm) during the burner firing, I just don't see overheating happening--except maybe in the attached boundary layer :-). The dynamics of a heating-chamber system won't be the same--and I think the question is one of Kcal/cm2 or maybe Kcal*s/cm2, I dunno. NOTE: For those who are about sick of these speculative RIMS rants all I can hope is that you fully enjoy the nutmeg and spaghetti discussions, and we can call it even :-) KRF Colorado Springs Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 12:34:54 -0400 From: KrisPerez at aol.com Subject: pumpkin beer I'v seen several posts on pumpkin beer in the last week or so, but haven't seen this point brought up so I'll mention it here. DON'T USE JACK-O-LANTERN PUMPKINS! Pumpkins grown for jack-o-lanterns aren't even real pumpkins, they are usually some hybrid squash. They are grown for size, not flavor. If you have ever tried to make a pie out of one, then you know. They are incrediby bland. Find a real eating pumpkin. You may even want to substitue a more flavorfull winter squash variety, (Butternut or Sweet meat), who's going to know? I think the easiest way to cook the squash or pumpkin is to cut it into big pieces and bake it in the oven. about 375 for 45-60 min, depending on the size of the pieces. When you can easily poke it with a fork, it's done. Kristine Perez KrisPerez at aol.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 12:36:55 EDT From: HYMT59A at prodigy.com (MR SCOTT H MOBERG) Subject: Mash out This is my first posting, so beer with me. A friend and I have Homebrewed for about 3 yrs now. Have made 5 all grain batches the last couple months using 10 gal Gott cooler. How do you raise the temp to 170F to stop activity, sparging doesn't do it with water at 170F, have tried removing grains, heating to 170F, returning to cooler. Is this the only way, is it necessary? Sorry if this has been answered 100 times before. Thank you Scott Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 95 17:34:43 BST From: blades at airtime.co.uk (Elizabeth Blades) Subject: Celsius to Farenheit Hi, To convert from celsius ro Farenheit all you do is multiply by 9 divide by 5 and add 32.Dead easy!!!! Cheers Liz Blades Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 95 13:51:45 EDT From: dipalma at sky.com (Jim Dipalma) Subject: freezers vs fridges, cleaning immersion chillers Hi All, In HBD#1860, Jay Reeves asks: >I'm ready to invest in a brewing fridge. I've seen some of you mention >that you use a chest-type frezzer - others use an upright refridgerator. >What are the pros/cons of each? I have both a 21 cu ft upright refridgerator, and a 23 cu ft chest freezer. Before I got the freezer, I used the fridge to store Corny kegs from which I dispensed beer. I can store only 4 kegs in the fridge, there's a lot of wasted space above the kegs. The chest freezer holds 13 kegs, more than adequate, even though I regularly brew 10 gallon batches. It also has enough space to store my slants and jars of sterile wort. I don't keep anything in the kitchen fridge, a fact that greatly pleases the spousal unit. So, I think it's a tradeoff based on your brewing volume. If you brew the occasional 5 gallon batch, an upright refridgerator that holds 3-4 kegs is probably adequate. If you need to store more than 3-4 kegs, go with the freezer. The only con I can see with the freezer is that if the external temperature controller goes south, you could end up with a bunch of beer-sicles. The battery in my Hunter airstat died recently, the temp in the freezer got to 30F even though the display read 45F. I noticed frost building up on the inside, realized the controller wasn't working (well, DUH), changed the battery, re-programmed it and all was well. If you use the fridge for dispensing, you won't need an external controller, it should be able to maintain 45F or so without help. ********************************** Also in HBD#1860, Guy A. DeRose asks: >I am finally making an immersion chiller for my beer (after about a dozen >extract and partial-mash batches) out of copper tubing and have the >following question. How should I clean the copper to remove any oils or >solvents from the manufacturing process (3/8" x 50' of "refrigerator coil"), >and should this be done before or after bending the tubing into its final >form? I wouldn't worry about cleaning the inside of the tubing, you won't be passing wort through an immersion chiller. To clean the outside, I fill an old 7.5 gallon plastic fermenter with water, add a teaspoon of acidblend to acidify it, then drop the chiller in for a few minutes. I wouldn't recommend prolonged contact time, copper is fairly reactive, you might accidentally turn your chiller into a sparge manifold :-). After a few minutes, the tubing comes out nice and shiny. Cheers, Jim dipalma at sky.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 08:10:35 +0200 From: ruwh at lockmtn.dom.EG.net (Wayne Hocking) Subject: Airstat Zener and Scotch Ale 1. The zener often described as failing on Hunter Airstats is available through the distributor network of NTE. They have an info number that can be used to find the outfit closest to you. 800-631-1250. Their part number is : 5137A, this is the equivalent of a 24V 5 Watt Zener. (1N5359B) Probable cost is around $5.00, and they will sell you just one. 2. I am interested in brewing a Scotch Ale similar to the product sold in the US as MacAndrews Scotch Ale. Has anyone tried this either extract or whole grain. I have the Noonan book from the classic series, but he does not have any recipes that match his description of this beer. He references something called torrified wheat, and I can find no reference to this product in any of the brewing books I have. What is this? Appreciate any responses off line, as I live in Egypt and have the journal sent by disk each month. (we have to pay for each kilobyte of transmission) Wayne Hocking ruwh at lockmtn.dom.eg.net >From the shadow of the Pyramids Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 14:44:29 -0400 From: Gregory Ziegler <wyegz at friend.ly.net> Subject: Road Dog Ale .jpg Now that I've read all the accounts of the ill fated Road Dog Ale I was hopeing to get one step closer to the real thing. Anybody have access to a scanner and a bottle of Road Dog Ale? I found my self wanting a glimpse of the bottles label more than a gulp of it's contents (strange but true). I already checked the HBD Archives images section, but to no avail. If anybody out there could submit a jpg. into the archives I'm sure alot of Hunter S. Thompson and Ralph Steadman fans would be very appreciative. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 16:29:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Tim Laatsch <LAATSCH at kbs.msu.edu> Subject: leaky keg Hey Everyone, Simple question: can hop aroma be scrubbed out of solution by CO2 in a leaky keg on constant CO2 supply? My latest pale was dry-hopped in the keg and force-carbonated by intermittent pressurization. The beer had excellent hop character, but was a little on the flat side. I hooked up the CO2 tank for a continuous supply to the keg and have noticed a dramatic decrease in hop aroma after only one day. In fact, I would say the hoppiness is completely gone. This was a major disappointment and I think this same keg may have caused a similar problem before. Should I transfer this beer to a different keg and dry-hop again?? Should this keg be taken out of service until I can replace the poppets, o-rings, etc.?? Thanks. Tim Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 17:27:48 EDT From: "Ed Lustenader" <usfmcf9t at ibmmail.com> Subject: Help... stuck brew As a long time lurker, I am finally in need of some help from the collective regarding a recent brew that hasn't fermented well. This past weekend I brewed the following: 5 lbs American 2 row 1 lb. each of crystal, carapils, Munich malt 1/2 lb. of wheat Mashed at 159F for 2.5 hrs. and sparged at 180F. OG was 1.040. Used the yeast from a previous batch of ale (American 1056) that was jump started with a little DME the night before. After boiling and cooling, the yeast started to ferment in 2 hrs. and promply quit after 24hrs. I thought the yeast might not be enough and added one package of Whitbread Ale yeast. No luck. Ale is sitting with no activity. Any suggestions as to what I might do to save this brew? This is only my third batch of all grain so I'm still on the learning curve. TIA. Regards, Ed Lustenader Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 19:23:20 -0500 From: "John Lifer, Jr." <jliferjr at felix.TECLink.Net> Subject: Re: Aluminum brewpot Randy, I'll have to second Greg's post. I've been brewing only a short time,but If you only new the restaurants that use aluminum stock pots, then if you think that a little brew boiling will cause you problems, then what do you think about eggs, bacon, beef, seafood, vegetable oil, sugar, caffeine, fats, and all the myraid of things that you and I ingest each day. Be sure of this--- no matter what you do, you will die of something sooner or later. Also, just drill a hole in the side where you want a valve and put a short piece pipe thru the hole. My pot is thick enough for a tapped hole. John in Mississippi ( not always such a pessimist) Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 23:15:07 -0600 (MDT) From: Dave Thayer <dthayer at netcom.com> Subject: Re: Home Brewing Without Failures by H. E. Bravery Jerry Miller asks about Home Brewing Without Failures by H. E. Bravery. Well, my copy is 20 years old (Cover price $0.95) so this information may or may not be of any use: Published by ARC Books, 219 Park Ave S, New York NY 10003. No ISBN as such, but in tiny print 668-01436-9, which resembles ISBN format on more current books. FWIW, the recepies seem to rely on using a lot of added sugar, and the techniques have refined a lot over the last 20 years. I made several crappy batches of beer in the 70's and gave up until last year. What a difference! dave t. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 1995 01:20:06 -0700 From: pohl at unixg.ubc.ca (Derrick Pohl) Subject: Wort cooling the slack way Rolland Everitt (af509 at osfn.rhilinet.gov) writes: >I do not presently use a wort cooler, and I am wondering just >how important they are. After cooking, I remove my hops (bagged), >cover the pot (cover is reasonably sterile), and let is sit until >cool (usually overnight). The trub settles nicely, and I am able >to siphon the wort off it easily. My method of low-tech, slack wort cooling is only slightly more complex, but I think worth the extra effort. Immediately after the boil, seal the lid on with plastic wrap and plunge the pot into a bathtub full of cold water. Put the pot near the tap and let the water flow at a trickle (assuming your tub has an overflow drain near the top) to keep cool water moving around the pot. This cools a big stainless steel pot holding 5 imperial gallons (6 U.S. gallons) of hot wort down to pitching temperature in about an hour, maybe less. Then dump the cool wort through a strainer into the waiting fermentation vessel - the strainer catches most of the hops and trub and (*bonus*) the pouring beautifully aerates the wort. The advantages over your method are: less time for infection to occur, and the wort quickly cools to a point where the aroma hops will contribute aroma as they should, not bitterness. All that said, anyone who was thinking of getting me a wort cooler for Christmas is still welcome to do so! - ----- Derrick Pohl <pohl at unixg.ubc.ca> Vancouver, B.C., Canada Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 1995 05:41:30 EDT From: LFCP67A at prodigy.com (MR MARK W LEVESQUE) Subject: mason jars / bitterness A friend of mine has loads of the mason type canning jars in his basement. They must be airtight since people use them to can veggies etc. for the long term. Anyone out there ever try using those to bottle home brew? I guess one concern would be strength/thickness of the glass. I'm still a fairly new home brewer and am starting to try out hops/grains and extracts. (first few batches were hopped extracts and corn sugar). I used the bags for the grains and the finishing hops and boiled the bittering hops directly into the wort. My problem is that I didn't strain before I went to the fermenter or bottles. There is a bit of cloudiness and small floaties in the bottles. And the first taste of a pale ale had more bitterness than any beer I've tried (I spent several years in the UK and tried lots of ales/bitters). My question is, will this stuff mellow out a little with age, and will the floating bits settle to the bottom with time? They have been in the bottle for 2-3 weeks. Any help/advice is greatly appreciated.........Mark Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 1995 12:57:34 -0200 (GMT) From: Rian Rademeyer <rrad at lss.co.za> Subject: Storage temp of Ales Hi HBDers I am planning to stockpile beer for the Christmas season. As we are going into summer here in the Southern Hemisphere, I would like to know the maximum temp an ale can be stored at without damage. I currently store at 15 C but my storage temps. in my store room could go as high as 25 C (outside 35C+ 100F). Would this cause damage over 2-3 months Rian Rademeyer - Cape Town rrad at mail.lss.co.za Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 1995 07:16:13 -0400 From: "Michael D. Fairbrother" <mdf at apollo.hp.com> Subject: Re: Two-litre Pop Chiller? > Mark Moylan, in the latest Zymurgy (p.89), states that frozen 2 litre pop > bottles can be effective wort chillers; is this true? Wouldn't the plastic > melt and/or effect the flavour of the brew? Has anyone tried this method? > Douglas, I can't say I have tried it, but you can boil water in a paper cup with a flame (which I did try many years ago), so I wouldn't think that the plastic would melt, due to the ice cooling it down. Michael Derry, NH, U.S.A Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 95 22:04:02 +1000 From: CHARLIE SCANDRETT <merino at ozemail.com.au> Subject: Styles Vs Eclecticism Thanks to Dr. Gillian Grafton for the historical record on the flavour European Oak. I knew about pitch lined beer barrels but correctly guessed the IPA barrels weren't lined because I've never seen a lined wooden barrel on a sailing boat. The endless motion literally polishes it off, the inside is quite smooth. The motion and heat would also probably render the beer completely flat. My point about the now fashionable sharp bitterness and hop aroma stands. The modern IPA style is a great drop but we can't claim history as authority for it. Algis Korzonas writes, >Charlie also says: CS>1/ Why can't an excellent American Bock beat a very good Helles Bock in a CS>competition? They are close enough to be compared and contest. >Of course it could, but only if the American Bock was judged as an American >Bock and the Helles Bock as a Helles Bock. Head-to-head the American Bock >(e.g. Augsburger Bock, Frankenmuth Bock...) would be far too weak and watery >compared to Ayinger Mai Bock, Einbecker Mai Ur-Bock or Forschungs St. Jakobus >Bock. Judged as American Bocks, these three would be tossed out for being >too big and too alcoholic for style. I rest my case! From and outsider's point of view (I have never competed or known of a competition, I am outside organized homebrewing) with experience of wine competitions, this seems absurd. Wine is grouped into styles (usually grape varieties) and judged on excellence. I have never heard of points for comformance to style?! >Finally, Charlie says: CS>Let the brewer woo the palate within broarder categories! >Is something broken? Does something really need fixing? Nothings broken, homebrewing and craftbrewing are growing fast and eclectically! The Australian wine industry however has been at this craft fermenting thing much longer and is well established. It's hard to get beer craft brewing of the ground here.They are technology intensive and exellent by world standards. . So much so, that a sizeable number of Australian winemakers are working in France teaching techniques! Why? Not because our European winemakers are more talented than theirs, but as a very young country, the industry has been freed of the shackles of tradition and purists copying styles, many of which had flavour profiles containing fermenting flaws. (familiar anyone?) E.G. A progressive brewer in Burton would be tinkering feverishly about in the water lab trying to isolate what is positive for brewing, and what is negative, in the ionic soup they call natural water. This way they could treat it to achieve greater heights in pleasing the palate. A craft stylist in the USA would be tinkering just as feverishly trying to duplicate the natural Burton water exactly and delving into history to replicate the "true" Burton style? Why? This is OK as a hobby, but where it overlaps into quality commercial brewing it seems a little fundamentalist to me. My attitude to styles is that they are important reference points in navigating the labyrinths of beer flavour. I am amazed they are so important in competition. The AHA publishes "The style guidelines are in constant evolution and expansion, and the AHA would be the last to say that (they) are the only source to use when you brew. <snip> But it isn't gospel. We change them to accomodate suggestions <snip> and to include styles that are newly popular. The guidlines are simply a tool, a measuring stick, to help homebrewers compare their own brews to the ones they buy and taste." Bravo !! So why do the evaluations and reviews I read give style so much importance? Charlie (Brisbane, Australia) ""Style' is instead an invention of our imaginations, something that can be changed as easily as we change our minds about it." Rob Lauriston. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 1995 08:22:41 -0400 From: MClarke950 at aol.com Subject: RE: Sanatizing question/Pumpkin Ale/Book ? Paul Tully (PAUL_TULLY at HP1700.desk.hp.com) asked: Sanatizing question: >What is the best sanitizer to use? I recently read in a homebrewing >book that B-Brite is not a sanitizer, it's a cleanser. Is a household >bleach solution a better sanitizer to use? Also, has anyone tried the >new no rinse C-Brite? I don't know about best, but I use household bleach and Iodaphor, seperately. Bleach is great for cleaning bottles and carboys, It just about dissolves the yeast caked on the sides. I also use on things that will be stored and not used for a while. I use the Iodaphor when the beer will be in contact with the sterilized surface in short order, racking canes, hoses, carboys *before* filling and bottle caps. >I also read (same book) that bottles can be sanitized by heating them >in your oven at 200 degrees for 10 minutes. Is this a good idea? Does >anyone use this process? I bake my bottles at 200F for 15 minutes. It works great, never had a problem. I do rinse them thoroughly after using them and inspect them before baking. >What is the best way to sanitize your bottle caps? Is it necessary to >boil them or can you just soak them in a sanitizer solution. Won't >boiling have an effect on the rubber seal inside the cap? That's why I use diluted Iodaphor solution to soak them in. The boiling *may* affect the rubber seal under the cap. It did to mine. If you use those special oxygen absorbing caps boiling will ruin them. Pumpkin Ale: >> Peel and remove seeds from pumpkin and cook until soft. In your brewpot, >> add your malt, Mt. Hood Hops and cooked pumpkin meat and boil for 30 >> minutes. Add burton Water Salt and Irish Moss and boil for 15 minutes >> more. Add finishing hops and boil for 5 minutes more. >> >what is the procedure for cooking the pumpkin? Do you bake it? Boil >it? Cut it into larger pieces? Small pieces? I made a pumpkin ale last year. I "skinned" the pumpkin meat and steamed it for 10 minutes. I would steam it until soft. I used the meat as part of a mash so YMMV. Wade Wallinger posted this not-too-long-ago: <snip> >Rinse the pumkin, leave skin on and cut into large sections. Bake in 350f >oven for 1hr 15min. Remove skin and crush meat. <snip> Good Luck! Book Question: Does anyone know where I can get a copy of "Brewing Old New England's Beer and Wines"? I think the titles pretty close. Cheers, =Mike Clarke in Seattle, WA. USA (MClarke950 at aol.com) Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 1995 08:30:12 -0400 From: Robert Waterfall <waterr at rpi.edu> Subject: re: Concrete Rollers Todd Kirby said in HBD1860: >I thought C.D. Pritchard's use of concrete rollers was quite interesting. <snip> >Chemicals from concrete dust are supposedly >harmful to breathe, so I would think you would want to avoid getting it in >your wort as well. Would it be possible to coat the roller with epoxy or >polyurethane as a preventative? Comments anyone? Is his beer ruined? Todd Kirby - ----------- Todd, I believe the problem with concrete dust (Portland cement dust) inhalation is the crystalline silica content. The effects would be irritation of the lungs by the physical (not chemical) properties of the dust. So if C.D. Pritchard is getting some dust in his grist, it will probably a) increase his brewing water hardness due to lime content, b) mostly settle out due to alumina and silica content, and c) cause him no harm unless he snorts his beer. ;^) Bob Waterfall Troy, NY, USA Return to table of contents
Date: 19 Oct 1995 08:01:08 GMT From: "Dan Wilson" <DWILSON3 at EMAIL.USPS.GOV> Subject: Those Pesky Labels A question I've never seen addressed, for the colective wisdom. Everyone tells me to soak off those labels. No one has ever mentioned why. Private Email works, dwilson3 at email.usps.gov Standing by to be educated. Dan Wilson Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 12:39:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Paul A. Hausman <paul at lion.com> Subject: Re: Concrete Roller > Todd Kirby <mkirby at isnet.is.wfu.edu> > > I thought C.D. Pritchard's use of concrete rollers was quite interesting. > Seems like an excellent idea, however I'm curious how much of the flour at > the end of the grind might have been concrete dust? Did you coat the roller > with anything to prevent this problem? Chemicals from concrete dust are > supposedly harmful to breathe, so I would think you would want to avoid > getting it in your wort as well. Would it be possible to coat the roller > with epoxy or polyurethane as a preventative? Comments anyone? Is his beer > ruined? "typical" concrete is primarily silica and carbonate salts. These, as well as most mineral dusts are harmful to breath, particularly if in very small particle sizes. They tend to accumulate in the lungs and cause irritation. Silica dusts are suspect as contributing to lung cancer (similarly to asbestos). So don't inhale your beer. As far as ingestion, Silicates is mostly insoluble in water, and I suspect also in beer. I would doubt they would get into your finished product. Calcium salts should merely add hardness. Might affect style, but not toxicity. I would be more concerned about the toxicity of (non-food-grade) epoxies. - ------------------------------ Paul A. Hausman paul at lion.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 9:54:00 -0400 (EDT) From: wkitt at melpar.esys.com (William H. Kitt, Jr.) Subject: Fermentation question I am a novice homebrewer, am concerned that my most recent attempt and brew has gone awry, and am looking for advice. Sunday, 10/15, I began my third batch of homebrew: an amber. 3-4 hours after pitching the yeast, fermentation had obviously started (gas was being expelled through the airlock). By Monday morning fermentation was vigorous. Tuesday morning, the volume of gas being expelled was minimal. This left me wondering if something was terribly wrong because vigorous fermentation lasted three+ days for my first two batches of homebrew. It is now Wednesday morning and fermentation is still taking place (at least gas is being expelled via the airlock), albeit at a slow rate. The one thing that I noticed different from the first two batches was the temperature at which fermentation is taking place. Monday night was our first frost, and the room in which I store the fermentation bucket is not temperature controlled. The temperature was about 57'F Tuesday afternoon leading me to believe that it was much colder Monday night for many hours. I added a space heater to the room Tuesday evening which is keeping the room in the mid 60's(F) in an attempt to recover this batch. Did this much lower than optimal temperature contribute significantly to the early reduction in fermentation rate? Have I ruined this batch? Can it recover if I stabilize the temperature to the mid-60's(F)? Any other comments that could help? Thanks in advance, ******************************************************************* William H. Kitt, Jr. (Bill) * Phone: (703) 560-5000 Sr. Systems Engineer MS N201 * extension 4490 E-Systems, Falls Church Div. * FAX: (703) 280-4627 7700 Arlington Boulevard * Internet: wkitt at melpar.esys.com Falls Church, VA 22046 * Opinions: Are mine alone ******************************************************************* Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 1995 08:34:25 From: DC at carlsonco.com Subject: Finnings (sp?) I've been brewing in the dark for 6 years. Six year away from HBD. It's nice to be back. I purchased some finnings in the UK about 4 years ago and finally got around to using them in an Oktoberfest this year. The finnings did a great job of clearing the top inch or so of beer in the carboy, but the remainder of the beer was very cloudy. Any thoughts, I followed the directions (mix with 1/4 cup of H2O). Do finnings have a shelf life? Private post is fine if this has been hashed to death in past 6 years. doug connolly dc at carlsonco.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 95 10:38:03 EDT From: Pierre Jelenc <pcj1 at columbia.edu> Subject: Coming up roses Andy Walsh <awalsh at crl.com.au> asks: > Hop Oils > Can anyone tell me which of linalool and geraniol is the rose-smelling > one? What does the other smell of? Geraniol smells of roses. Linalool smells of bergamot. Both rather convincingly so, Pierre Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 1995 09:35:38 -0500 (CDT) From: Craig Amundsen <amundsen at biosci.cbs.umn.edu> Subject: iodophor = ? Hi - The other day I found myself in the local Fleet Farm(tm) (what a _great_ store! (#include <std.disclaimer>)), so I strolled over to the dairy section. It was my intention to buy a gallon of iodophor-based tank sanitizer for $10. I did find some sanitizer for $10/gallon. It was a no rinse variety and had a certain amount of "titratable iodine" in it. The problem is that the label didn't have the word "iodophor". It did have a very long chemical name (no doubt IUPAC approved) that started with iodine. Does anyone know the actual chemical name for iodophor? I really want to start using iodophor to sanitize, and $10/gallon is the right price, but I want to actually buy iodophor. TIA - Craig - -- +-----------------------------+------------------------------------------------+ | Craig Amundsen | DILBERT - Sometimes I wonder if it's ethical | | amundsen at biosci.cbs.umn.edu | to do these genetic experiments. But | | (612) 624-2704 | I rationalize it because it will | | 250 Biological Sciences | improve the quality of life. | | 1445 Gortner Avenue | DOGBERT - What are you making? | | Saint Paul, MN 55108 | DILBERT - Skunkopotamus. | +-----------------------------+------------------------------------------------+ Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 95 10:23:48 -0400 From: "Michael R. Swan" <mswan at fdic.gov> Subject: Vienna malt---Has the guality improved? I just finished George and Laurie Fix's excellent book on _Marzen- Oktoberfest-Vienna_ beers (1991) and had a question: On page 35 of the book, the authors state: "What is truly disappointing is that Vienna malt from Europe, while generally made from two- row barley, is not that much better than Vienna malt made in the United States from six-row barley." Because of this, the authors recommend making Vienna and Oktoberfest beers using only Pilsener quality two-row pale malt supplemented by German light and dark crystal malt and English caramel malt. My question is: Has the quality of Vienna malt improved since this book was published? I have seen a number of recent recipes for Vienna/Oktoberfest beers and they seem to use Munich and/or Vienna malts. Does anyone have any brand recommendations for this malt or should I just stick to Pilsener and crystal malts when making these beers? Thanks in advance. ************************************************************************ * Mike Swan * "The path of the righteous man is * * Dallas, Texas * beset on all sides by the inequities * * mswan at fdic.gov * of the selfish and the tyranny of * * "My views are my own" * evil men." Pulp Fiction * ************************************************************************ Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1862, 10/20/95