HOMEBREW Digest #1866 Wed 25 October 1995

Digest #1865 Digest #1867

		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor

  Road Dog Ale ("Glyn Crossno")
  aging in a carboy? (Larry Lowe)
  Fischer d'Alsace (levis)
  Slant Inoculation (hollen)
  Dangerous chemical in beer (Rolland Everitt)
  Glassware (Rolland Everitt)
  Re:#1056 Problems (Suzette Smith)
  Wort Storage ("Michael A. Owings")
  Brewing Programs (Bob Sutton)
  American Oak Brew (Bob Sutton)
  St. Amboise, Smithwick, Tartan, and Double Diamond's (Douglas Painter)
  The polls are closing ("Pat Babcock")
  /An experiment ("Pat Babcock")
  Doggy Styles and more. (Russell Mast)
  GLATT MILLS (Evan Kraus)
  But seriously, folks.... (Dan McConnell)
  SABCO experiences (DICKERSONP)
  hazelnut extract source? ("mike spinelli")
  Delayed yeast pitch (THaby)
  Dissolving oxygen; are iodophors safe? (Ulick Stafford)
  Re: Sanitizing Questions (Bob Sutton)
  FREE book! ("Jeffrey W. Van Deusen")
  Re:pseudo Easymasher (Regan Pallandi)
  "Complex unfermentable sugars": What are they? (Ken Willing)
  Styles (Algis R Korzonas)
  The HomeBrew Flea Market - Dump I ("Pat Babcock")
  Mason jars and positive pressure (Dick Dunn)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 10:42:16 CST From: "Glyn Crossno" <CROSSNO at novell2.tn.cubic.com> Subject: Road Dog Ale See last weeks _News_Week_. My wife was telling me about see it, when all I had done was read it. Glyn Crossno Crossno at novell2.tn.cubic.com Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence on society. Mark Twain Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 95 10:41:57 CDT From: Larry Lowe <lnl at apwk01g3.abrfc.noaa.gov> Subject: aging in a carboy? Full-Name: Larry Lowe to the collective wisdom, i am currently short on bottles (yes, i know, if i kegged i wouldn't have that problem) and one of the beers i am going to brew on wednesday calls for aging 4 to 6 weeks. my question is, can this be done in the carboy as effectively as in a bottle. it seems logical to me. i would appreciate private e-mail as i am working evenings, and would not read the responses in the HBD 'til wednesday night and i want to brew wednesday day. i will be happy to report on the consensus if anyone wants. tia and hoppy brewing - -- from: Larry N. Lowe NOAA, National Weather Service Arkansas-Red Basin River Forecast Center lnl at apwk01g3.abrfc.noaa.gov Off: (918)832-4109 FAX: (918)832-4101 Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 22 Oct 95 07:52:22 PDT From: levis at xpoint.COM Subject: Fischer d'Alsace Over the weekend I had the good fortune to sample a beer from France called LaBelle from a brewery by the name of Fischer d'Alsace. Quite nice !! I would like to try and reproduce this at home. Anyone out there ever come across the recipe for this beer ??? Mike L. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 08:46:46 -0700 From: hollen at vigra.com Subject: Slant Inoculation The following message is a courtesy copy of an article that has been posted as well. Could people please comment on the advantages/disadvantages of the two methods of slant inoculation, smearing on top of surface vs. embedding the loop into the agar? thanks, dion Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 11:47:00 -0400 From: af509 at osfn.rhilinet.gov (Rolland Everitt) Subject: Dangerous chemical in beer Dan McConnell warned us about the dangers of dihydrogen monoxide in beer, but failed to mention the equally dangerous hydrogen hydroxide! Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 11:45:13 -0400 From: af509 at osfn.rhilinet.gov (Rolland Everitt) Subject: Glassware Todd Gierman asks for information about large stemmed glasses which he has been told are called schoopers (sp?). He also asks about the history of this type of glass. I can't help with the history, but I can tell you that around my neck of the woods, these glasses are called schooners. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 12:20:47 -0400 (EDT) From: Suzette Smith <SSMITH1 at drew.edu> Subject: Re:#1056 Problems Date: 23-Oct-1995 12:15pm EST From: Smith, Suzette SSMITH1 Dept: FAC/STAFF Tel No: (201)-408-3208 TO: Remote Addressee ( _in%HOMEBREW at HPFCMGW.FC.HP.COM ) Subject: Re:#1056 Problems I too have experienced problems with the September '95 batch of Wyeast #1056. I'd brewed a very light ale and it never cleared. I've brewed this recipe several times before and it usually is ready to bottle in 10 days and is a lovely pale color. This time it is a cloudy, darker color. It tastes a little "muddy". Not like dirt, but not the crisp clean flavor of the previous batches. I'm a little concerned since I decided to pitch a strong ale onto the dregs. It is cloudy too. I dumped some champagne yeast on top so we'll see what happens. The strong ale will be aged for over a year anyway, so maybe everything will eventually settle out. Still, seems like something is up with September's #1056. Suzette Zoologist & Zymurgist Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 09:44:10 -0700 (CDT) From: "Michael A. Owings" <mikey at waste.com> Subject: Wort Storage I have just completed my first all-grain batch yesterday. I had a lot of fun with it, but given the amount of time involved, it would be nice to be able to break up the brewing session over 2 days -- mash and sparge on one day, boil, cool and pitch on another. In order to do this, I would need to be able to store the wort for some period of time without risk of substantial infection or oxidation of the wort. Since I'm going to eventually boil the wort, and can hold the stored wort pretty near freezing, I'm assuming that infection is not a tremendous risk, but oxidation might be. So here's my plan: 1) Mash, sparge and collect the wort into a large, sanitized glass carboy (s). 2) Purge any carboy head space with CO2 and cap w/ sanitized stopper. 3) Place in brewing fridge and lower temp to near freezing. 4) On boil day, remove wort from fridge and boil w/ hops, cool and pitch yeast as usual. So waddaya think? Will this work? Have any of you tried this? How long can the wort be stored this way? Could a bucket be used instead of a carboy? I'd like to be able to store the wort for at least a week. A month would be better. I guess even overnight storage would be helpful. Any comments, tips, alternative suggestions would be greatly appreciated. TIA -- mikey Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 95 12:17 EST From: Bob Sutton <BSutton_+a_fdgv-03_+lBob_Sutton+r%Fluor_Daniel at mcimail.com> Subject: Brewing Programs Text item: Text_1 LEE_BOLLARD at HP-Spokane-om2.om.hp.com stated: >I rely on a couple brewing programs. I use "Brewbe" to calculate infusion >mash temps and water quantities. I use "Brewers Calculator" for recipes and >really like the way it PRINTS an entire recipe, including ingredients, mash >details, water additions, boil, fermentation and tasting information, along with >NOTES for each of these on ONE PAGE. NICE! Where would I find copies of these programs. TIA - --- __o Bob - ------ \<, (soon to be homeless on the information highway offramp) - ----- ( )/ ( ) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 95 12:31 EST From: Bob Sutton <BSutton_+a_fdgv-03_+lBob_Sutton+r%Fluor_Daniel at mcimail.com> Subject: American Oak Brew Text item: Text_1 Kris Thomas Messenger <kmesseng at slonet.org> said: >European oak doesn't impart any flavour to >the beer which is why the casks are used unlined. American oak >however gives the beer a strong oak flavour - I've never tried it >but have been told that the flavour can be overpowering. Well I've tried American oak, chips that is, and I can sum it up thusly: BIG MISTAKE !!!! :-( I added about a half cup of oak chips to my secondary. I boiled these chips three times (approximately 15 minutes/boil), before using. After 5 days I bottled my IPA. One might characterize the flavor as "woody" <g> For those of you wishing to get similar results, I would suggest you put a fresh ground "chaw" of oak sawdust in your cheek as you enjoy your favorite brew. Even my dog couldn't be coaxed to drink the stuff. Pssst...pass the Bud Light. BTW, the "if operating systems were beers" post was a classic. Our IS staff is still howling (never knew them to laugh before). - --- __o - ------ \<, Bob - ----- ( )/ ( ) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 13:42:45 -0400 From: Douglas Painter <painter at CAM.ORG> Subject: St. Amboise, Smithwick, Tartan, and Double Diamond's Thanks everyone who responded to my mash/lauter tun question, and the pop-chiller. I have now a 5 gal. Gott and Phil's Phalse Bottom and Sparge arm. Now that I seem very close to brewing my very first all grain brew I would like to brew a beer that I am familiar with and like. My subject lists my favorites and most of you may not be aqainted with the first, which is a pale ale out of Montreal's great micro Mc Auslan (check out their web page). So does anyone have recipes that would come close to these that I have named; St. Amboise, Smithwicks, Double Diamond, and Tartan (this later has a scotchy peaty aftertaste... do they add some scotch?) I have the recipe that Dave Line gave for DD but alas I am uncomfortable with saccharin tablets. Thanks for the recipes! I'm sure many would like to know. Douglas in Montreal, Canada -- but for how long ... Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 13:58:01 +0500 From: "Pat Babcock" <pbabcock at oeonline.com> Subject: The polls are closing Had to split this up. 8K limit, dontcha know! "Your article sent to homebrew is being rejected. The reason: -- Article is larger than 8k limit --" ================================== Greetings, beerlings! Surprisingly few wanted their opinions heard on the posting of the used items for sale web page contents to the HBD (shades of the US electorate). Only 13 (Ah! Lucky 13!) votes were received. o Nine voting yes o One voting no o One voting "Hell no!" (Need a nap, don't ya Chuck?!?) o Two voting no with interesting suggestions. Being a statistical kinda guy, I'd say thta's 2.25 to one in favor; however, I like one of the suggestions. Let me detail the two suggestions: One, from Kelly Jones, was shared publicly via the Digest. The suggestion was to use WEBMAIL to pull the page down into e-mail. I tried that. I tried it at noon, in the evening, in the morning, during the 'wee hours', and a lot this weekend. To no avail. The thing times out on the page constantly, and all I've ever gotten back was an error message, and an 'ad' for their 'internet tourbus' - "that dog don't hunt." I think it has to do with the level of formatting and graphics I incorporate in my page. Something I flat-out refuse to change. And I really don't need to spend my time keeping duplicate pages - one graphic, one not - up to date: that blows the spousal approval meter to the floorboards, if you get my drift ("That's all you do - beer and computers, beer and computers..."). It was a neat thought, though... The other suggestion came from Dave Draper, and is, as usual, excellent and worthy of pursuit: Use a script in my mailer to recognize requests for the page contents and automatically send them out. Kinda like a repeater. I _LIKE_ that idea! Since I check my mail at least once a day, It would be more timely than a monthly digest post as well! One problem: I'm very fond of the mailer I currently use, and will not change it. So, the question goes out to anyone who can answer: Does Pegasus 2.1 support scripts of any kind? If it does, it's not apparent via the help command. I will begin the "echo" with this issue and continue it at the end of each month until (a) the Digest bores of it or (b) I give up the homepage or (c) I find a mail-echo method that works or (d) any reason not covered by (a), (b) or (c). Part I of III Pat Babcock | "Beer is my obsession, and I'm late for President, Brew-Master | therapy..." -PGB and Chief Taste-Tester | "Let a good beer be the exclamation point Drinkur Purdee pico Brewery | at the end of your day as every sentence pbabcock at oeonline.com | requires proper punctuation." -PGB SYSOP on The HomeBrew University - Motor City Campus BBS (313)397-9758 Visit the Homebrew Flea Market via http://oeonline.com/~pbabcock Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 13:58:01 +0500 From: "Pat Babcock" <pbabcock at oeonline.com> Subject: /An experiment Yet another term of grad school is here with yet another experiment requirement. So, like last year, I'm brewing beer to satisfy my grade requirements (ain't life grand?). Last year, as you may or may not recall (did I post the results here?) I brewed 40 gallons of nut brown ale from extract varying the boiler geometry and yeast pitching levels. The results were higher percent attentuation when the wide, squat boiler was used and the pitching levels turned out to be 'noise' (Traditional DOE with two- two level factors). I think the attenuation came from higher OG from the lower carmelization occurring in the wide squat pot... This year, I'm brewing four-five gallon batches of 'Nondescript Pale Ale' varying the base malt (2-row pale vs 6-row pale) and the mashing schedule (40/60/70 two with 15 at 60, 45 at 70; two with 45 at 60, 15 at 70) and will again be looking at percent attenuation. Taguchi methods will be used (as this is a class in the Taguchi method...). I'll post the results here when I know 'em. Part II of III Pat Babcock | "Beer is my obsession, and I'm late for President, Brew-Master | therapy..." -PGB and Chief Taste-Tester | "Let a good beer be the exclamation point Drinkur Purdee pico Brewery | at the end of your day as every sentence pbabcock at oeonline.com | requires proper punctuation." -PGB SYSOP on The HomeBrew University - Motor City Campus BBS (313)397-9758 Visit the Homebrew Flea Market via http://oeonline.com/~pbabcock Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 13:53:36 -0500 From: Russell Mast <rmast at fnbc.com> Subject: Doggy Styles and more. > From: Todd Gierman <tmgierma at acpub.duke.edu> > Subject: a question of glassware > My mother recently presented me with two large and very heavy goblets of > leaded glass. She maintains that they are called Shoopers (Shupers, > Schoopers, Choupars?) and hinted that they cost her a pretty penny at an > auction. She claims that they are servingware for beer. Those glasses are very dangerous. Send them to me for proper disposal. (Well, I tried...) They're called "Schooners", like the variety of boat. (pr. skOO ners) I'm not sure I buy the notion of different glassware being appropriate for different beer styles, but these are fun to drink from. A couple bars in Nashville would always serve Gerst Amber in these. (A pretty good regional brew.) > From: "Edmund C. Hack" <echack at crl.com> > Subject: Re: Styles Vs Eclecticism > I see the beer judging as being modeled after dog judging. For each breed > of dog, there is a standard. Judges compare the dog to the standard, and > the winning dogs are those closest to the standard. Well, being new to dog judging (having four years experience with cat juggling competitions), this sounds wacky to me. In cat judging, we simply compare all the cats together, and judge based on "excellence". Feeble attempts at humor aside, I think there is a lesson in the dog judging analogy. I don't know the ins and outs of AKC rules (American Kennel Club, the folks who "officially" state whether a dog is a certain breed), but the rules are (or were) restrictive enough that significant inbreeding occured, and certain breeds of dogs (Golden Retreivers and Cocker Spaniels come to mind) which used to be among the more intelligent are now notoriously stupid and often have other health problems attributable to inbreeding. (Like I said, I don't know the details and am probably misrepresenting this to some extent, but the analogy stands. Pretend its hypothetical if my account is wrong.) Basically, because people were overly concerned with the individual categories and their current definitions (as opposed to their historic origins and breeding techniques), the categories themselves suffered, as did the quality of the members (dogs) in those categories. This should be a warning to us when considering beer styles and the -guidelines- associated with them. > From: "Fleming, Kirk R., Capt" <FLEMINGKR at afmcfafb.fafb.af.mil> > Subject: Oatmeal Mash Technique > Since there was no oatmeal grain in the mash, sparging was normal. I was always under the impression that the gummygoo you extracted from the oatmeal was the stuff that makes the sparges stick. Perhaps to brew a parallel batch with the rest of the oatmeal would shed some light on it? -R Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 15:01:25 -0400 (EDT) From: ejk at bselab.bls.com (Evan Kraus) Subject: GLATT MILLS Over the weekend while grinding some malt with my Glatt mill I managed to break the gears. Well in my quest to find some new ones I guess I am gonna have to buy a new mill. Looks like GLATT bailed !!!!! I have 2 Phone #s for GLATT and both are disconnected !!! So if U have a GLATT mill and unless U know who manufactured the gears for GLATT or if U know who might have a large supply of them left!! U are SOL !!! By the way does anyone know who might have the gears or where GREG GLATT is ??? Evan Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 15:15:32 -0400 From: danmcc at umich.edu (Dan McConnell) Subject: But seriously, folks.... Dihydrogen Monoxide has the chemical formula H2O, usually, but not always known as water. IT WAS A JOKE. DanMcC Attempted humor in this post=0 Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 12:04:21 -0400 From: DICKERSONP at aol.com Subject: SABCO experiences Hello great collective wisdom: I'm about to purchase a converted-keg brew kettle. I read the keg conversion FAQ and it seems that SABCO is the best deal. What I'm wondering is if anyone has personal experience with their kettles. They have a $90 kettle, and a $289 kettle with thermometer, false bottom, etc. Anyone have either of those two and like to comment on them?? Another question related to the two kettles. What would you use the $289 kettle for? If it has a false bottom, wouldn't you use it for mashing and/or lautering? Would you really boil in it? What am I missing? As background, I'm an extract brewer with three batches under my belt (or above my belt, if you look at my developing beer gut). I have never attempted all-grain, but would like to buy a kettle that could be used for that purpose. I kind of plan to go the Gott cooler route for mash/sparge/lauter. So, any wise advice would be appreciated. If anyone is interested, I'll be glad to summarize replies. Phil Dickerson Raleigh, NC WWW: http://users.aol.com/dickersonp/phil.htm e-mail: dickersonp at aol.com Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 15:56:42 -0400 (EDT) From: "mike spinelli" <paa3983 at dpsc.dla.mil> Subject: hazelnut extract source? Fellow HBD'ers Can someone advise on the best commercial hazelnut extract to use in beer? Also the ideal amount used at bottling time per 5 gallons. Thanks. Mike in Cherry Hill, New Jersey Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 95 12:51:30 CDT From: THaby at swri.edu Subject: Delayed yeast pitch Hello all, I brewed an IPA on Sunday and the yeast did not take. It was a dry ale yeast that was hydrated prior to pitching. My question is how long can wort sit in the primary without yeast activity and still be useable? Thanks for any help you can give. Tim Haby/N5YEB thaby at swri.edu Return to table of contents
From: ulick at chemcon.internet-eireann.ie id m0t7Ssy-0006TJC; Mon, 23 Oct 95 20:50 BST Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 20:50:15 +0100 From: Ulick Stafford <ulick at chemcon.internet-eireann.ie> Subject: Dissolving oxygen; are iodophors safe? To: Posting Address Only - No Requests <homebrew at hpfcmgw> In-Reply-To: <199510230700.AA133671607 at hpfcmgw> Message-Id: <Pine.3.89.9510232027.A106-0100000 at chemcon.internet-eireann.ie> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I noticed in some postings that there is a report that it is impossible to oxygenate wort to a harmful level using oxygen. This seems to be slightly erroneous. The amount of gas one can dissolve in a liquid is directly related to the partial pressure of the gas and also related to the liquid temperature. The maximum amount of oxygen that can be dissolved in water by aerating with air at normal atmospheric pressure is around 8 ppm at normal wort temperatures. This is related to the .21 atmospheres partial pressure of oxygen in air. The maximum amount that can be dissolved using pure oxygen at atmospheric pressure is around 35 ppm at normal wort temperatures. I have read that 14 ppm is an optimum oxygen level, and levels over 20 ppm are harmful. I believe that a statement was made that even if the dissolved oxygen reached a higher level, it would quickly drop to around 8 ppm, the amount of dissolved oxygen in equilibrium with oxygen in air. This would suggest to me that the experiments upon which the report was based were not conducted in enclosed vessels similar to homebrewing carboys, but in small open flasks of similar (I would appreciate the actual details). In my opinion brewers should be careful. If one oxygenates in an enclosed vessel using a fermentation lock or similar to keep oxygen in the vessel the concentration of oxygen will approach the maximum for wort at the given temperature in equilibrium with pure oxygen at atmospheric pressure ~ 35 ppm. This level will not fall until the composition of the headspace gases changes. Unless it is apparent that production of CO2 in the early stages of fermentation causes this partial pressure to drop quickly causing dissolved oxygen to come out of solution, it is likely that the yeast will consume harmful levels of oxygen in the lag phase. One could say that if one oxygenated and then opened the vessel to the atmosphere a harmful level of oxygen would not remain in the wort (although I would be curious even in this situation as to how quickly the oxygen would come out of solution in a carboy or similar). However, the same amount of dissolved oxygen could be reached by aerating with air at much less expense (although not as quickly). I always thought that the reason large breweries used oxygen was to get the level rapidly up to around 14 ppm. IODOPHORS. I have been searching for a suitable iodophor product on this side of the Atlantic. I purchased a gallon of a Ciba-Geigy product called `Iosan D' sold for cleaning dairy tanks (2% available iodine, 20%w/v acid). However, it seems to be quite soapy. I phoned up Ciba-Geigy asking about the product formulation and got a load of secrecy crap as an initial response. When I worded my request that I wanted a product without detergent and preferably without acid I was told that all cleaners contained detergents. Now obviously an iodophor must contain a surface active agent of sorts, so I asked if they produced a no-rinse product. They said no. They recommended that all products be rinsed to remove the iodine, which they considered to be quite toxic, with a dilute chlorine bleach solution! Their concerns sound quite opposite to the homebrew momilies on the other side of the Atlantic. Due to differences between milk and beer?? Perhaps, I should just use the iodophor for stored Corny kegs and other stainless equipment and follow the advice of rinsing with very dilute Cl prior to use. Comments? Unless, of course, anyone knows of a no rinse iodophor available in Ireland (or Europe in general)? Perhaps from a food or beverage industry, rather than dairy, supplier? _____________________________________________________________________________ 'There was a master come unto the earth, | Dr. Ulick Stafford, born in the holy land of Indiana, | Wexford Brewing Company, in the mystical hills east of Fort Wayne'.| Ballyhurst, Taghmon, Co. Wexford http://www.nd.edu:80/~ulick/ | ulick at chemcon.internet-eireann.ie Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 95 17:20 EST From: Bob Sutton <BSutton_+a_fdgv-03_+lBob_Sutton+r%Fluor_Daniel at mcimail.com> Subject: Re: Sanitizing Questions Text item: Text_1 PAUL_TULLY at HP1700.desk.hp.com wrote: >I'm new to homebrewing and I'm about to attempt my second batch of beer >(the first batch came out great). I have a few questions concerning >sanitation and I though I'd post them here to get your opinions. Great to have you aboard Paul. >What is the best sanitizer to use? I recently read in a homebrewing >book that B-Brite is not a sanitizer, it's a cleanser. Is a household >bleach solution a better sanitizer to use? Also, has anyone tried the >new no rinse B-Brite? Certainly B-Brite is a popular sanitizer, but the new lemon-scented formula is suspiciously similar to dishwashing detergent (that works as well, and is much less expensive). An alternate sanitizing agent is iodophor. It is readily rinsed from your equipment, and, unlike B-Brite, may be left to dry on surfaces, without leaving contaminants which could affect your brew. Some use simple bleach (ex. household Clorox) at 200 ppm free chlorine. Many options here that are as effective, and more affordable than B-Brite. Iodophor probably ranks first. >I also read (same book) that bottles can be sanitized by heating them >in your oven at 200 degrees for 10 minutes. Is this a good idea? Does >anyone use this process? I've used a similar process; one hour at 300 degrees F. The downside is cooling time. You can't hasten it or the bottles may self destruct. Natural cooling is best. Oven cleanliness is important. If you heat your bottles in the oven in which last night's pot roast boiled over, well, you can probably look forward to some new style of brew (though it should go well with steak)<g> >What is the best way to sanitize your bottle caps? Is it necessary to >boil them or can you just soak them in a sanitizer solution. Won't >boiling have an effect on the rubber seal inside the cap? I boil mine for 20 minutes and have had no sealing problems. Don't add the caps until the boil forms. That way you can avoid localized high temperatures along the bottom of the pan. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 20:47:46 -0400 (EDT) From: "Jeffrey W. Van Deusen" <VANDEUSEN001 at WCSUB.CTSTATEU.EDU> Subject: FREE book! With all the talk recently over H.E. Bravery's book "Homebrewing Without Failures", I figured I would post an interesting offer: * Do you want this book? * I have one copy and do not want it anymore. * I'll mail it to you free. * No BS - first email I get gets the book. Jeffrey W. Van Deusen Danbury, CT Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 1995 10:49:42 +1200 (EST) From: Regan Pallandi <reganp at iris.bio.uts.EDU.AU> Subject: Re:pseudo Easymasher Hello All - here in Oz, we do not have the same availability of equipment as in the States. I have seen a photo of the Easymasher, and all it seems to be is a rolled up bit of screen attached to a pipe. Is this about right? So, can one of these be fabricated by this very (seemingly too simple) process? Is there a hidden, and crucial, point that I've missed? Also, I have some very fine SS mesh, is there an optimal mesh size to use, ie. is too fine a mesh going to cause probs? Finally, WHY is this easymasher thing supposedly so efficient? Anyone have comments/experience? Thanks. Regan (Sydney, Australia) Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 1995 10:58:41 +1000 (EST) From: Ken Willing <kwilling at laurel.ocs.mq.edu.au> Subject: "Complex unfermentable sugars": What are they? Re: the "complex unfermentable sugars" mentioned by Miller (CHHB, p.127) as yielded by alpha amylase action (in addition to the yield of dextrins & simple sugars): What are these complex sugars, exactly? Maltotetraose? Anything else? Do they indeed, in and of themselves, give a characteristic (malty?) flavor, in addition to their sweetness? So is it accurate to say that a mash schedule favoring alpha amylase activity should result in a *malty* sweetness?, or would it basically just produce an extra margin of sweetness, as contrasted with a "dry" brew made by emphasising beta amylase activity? Thanks for help with this. Ken Willing <kwilling at laurel.ocs.mq.edu.au> Sydney, Australia Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 95 14:46:02 CDT From: korz at pubs.ih.att.com (Algis R Korzonas) Subject: Styles Charlie writes (quoting me): >Algis Korzonas writes, >Charlie also says: >CS>1/ Why can't an excellent American Bock beat a very good Helles Bock in a >CS>competition? They are close enough to be compared and contest. > >>Of course it could, but only if the American Bock was judged as an American >>Bock and the Helles Bock as a Helles Bock. Head-to-head the American Bock >>(e.g. Augsburger Bock, Frankenmuth Bock...) would be far too weak and watery >>compared to Ayinger Mai Bock, Einbecker Mai Ur-Bock or Forschungs St. Jakobus >>Bock. Judged as American Bocks, these three would be tossed out for being >>too big and too alcoholic for style. > >I rest my case! From and outsider's point of view (I have never competed or >known of a competition, I am outside organized homebrewing) with experience of >wine competitions, this seems absurd. Wine is grouped into styles (usually >grape varieties) and judged on excellence. I have never heard of points for >comformance to style?! You have not heard of points for conformance to style because you are not familiar with homebrewing competitions. I don't know much about wines, but I believe that wine musts are not fortified before fermentation correct? If this is true, then one variable that is available the the beer brewer is not available to the wine vintner, namely the strength of the finished product. It would not be fair to compare a Porto with a Cabernet, would it (assuming they were made from the same grapes, etc... I obviously don't know anything about wine or I would have selected an unfortified wine that is made from the same grapes as Port)? Other variables in brewing that are not in winemaking are hop rate, hop variety, spices, grains other than barley, mash temperature, protein rests... You see, there is far less variability in wine than there is in beer. Now, why have styles? Besides having *some* idea of what you are buying when you go to the store, they are extremely important in most homebrewing competitions. Consider the score to be based upon two factors: 1) how well the beer represents the style into which it was entered, and 2) how few other flaws the beer has (infections, oxidation, staling, etc.). In a very small competition, one could simply take all the beers and judge them on excellence, but this would only serve to measure how lucky a particular brewer was in satisfying a particular judge's taste on a particular day. If it was hot and dry, maybe the judge would like a dry, hoppy, light- bodied, refreshing beer; if it was cold and damp, perhaps the judge would be in the mood for a thick, dark, alcoholic brew. It depends on what your goals are for the competition. In my opinion (and I would hope the opinion of most BJCP judges), the primary responsibility of the judge is to help the brewer improve their beer (or, in very few cases, simply congratulate them on an outstanding effort). Unless both the brewer and the judge have the same target in mind, it is impossible for the judge to help the brewer get closer to the target. If a brewer submits a pale, dry beer as a Sweet Stout, then I would suggest that they add some darker malts, perhaps some crystal for sweetness, suggest that they mash at a higher temperature if they were mashing or try using Laaglander DME if they were extract brewing and perhaps add some lactose to taste at bottling. You see... I can try to help them. If they just submit it and say: "this is beer" then I can only judge the beer in terms of infections, oxidation and staling -- not very informative unless it's the brewer's first batch and they just wanted to know if this is how homebrew should taste. Assuming that we can judge a beer on simply excellence implies that (for example) there is a *correct* hop rate for a given gravity. There is, but it is style dependent. Some styles are dominated by bitterness others by malt. Some styles have lots of hop flavour others none. Other styles are somewhere between these extremes. Without knowing what the brewer had in mind, the judge cannot comment on the appropriateness of the hop rate. A secondary responsiblilty of the judge is to select the best beer in each category. To me, as an entrant, this is like sport... the lure is not really the ribbons (well, maybe for some it is) but the pride you can take in knowing that you worked very hard to perfect that Altbier recipe and you were judged to have brewed the best one at that competition (and lucky enough to have gotten a judge who has been to Duesseldorf). Regarding Charlie's quote of the AHA's view of their guidelines, this may be fine and dandy, but the AHA is very much a dictatorship and their claims of responsiveness to their membership are more marketing than reality. Compare the growth rate of AHA membership with the numbers of new members each year and you will realize that the only reason that the AHA is growing at all is because (for the time being) there are a couple thousand more people joining than quitting. Finally, Charlie quotes Rob: "Style' is instead an invention of our imaginations, something that can be changed as easily as we change our minds about it." Rob Lauriston. Yes, but as a collective, we the homebrewing and beer judging community determine a set of rather narrow guidelines which have some inertia and therefore do not change with the wind. To have constanly changing, broad guidelines would be a disservice to both brewers and judges and would make their respective "jobs" far more difficult. I think that as you learn more about beer and styles, you will better understand the importance of them. Al. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 23:57:40 +0500 From: "Pat Babcock" <pbabcock at oeonline.com> Subject: The HomeBrew Flea Market - Dump I The HomeBrew Flea Market Attention shoppers... Looking for a good deal on a piece of used home brewing equipment? Let your browser do the walking! If you see something of interest, pick the e-mail address and pop a note off to the seller! If you don't see what you're after, send a note to pbabcock at oeonline.com with "Wanted Used" (less the quotes) as the subject. Include a description of what you're looking for, what you expect to give for those item(s), your geographical location, and your e-mail address. It'll pop up here on the next update! Attention sellers... Have some home brewing equipment you no longer want or need? Send a note to pbabcock at oeonline.com with "For Sale Used" (less the quotes) as the subject. Include a description of what you're selling/trading, what you expect to receive for your item(s), your geographical location, and your e-mail address. It'll pop up here on the next update! A Plea... PLEASE: As this is being done as a 'public service', no commercial ads. I maintain a list of suppliers having either e-mail capability or 800 numbers and mail-order service off of the beer page. If you fit that criteria and are not currently included in the list, drop me a note (including your location, 800 number) and I'll add your establishment to that list. And, Of Course, A Disclaimer... Your note is converted directly to HTML. Only your email address is 'handled' to make it immediately 'linkable' through a browser mailform. Neither I nor O&E Online will be held responsible for any m isrepresentation, merchantability, or any other liability or consequence resulting from the posting or pursuit of any ad on this web site. Items for sale or trade... Date sent: Thu, 21 Sep 95 10:10:24 -0700 Beer bottle collection, 3000+ different bottles, some pre-prohibition, mostly recent (past 16 years) American microbrews. You pick up from California, East Bay Area. Hard to set a price. Mostly looking for someone who would appreciate a massive collection (besides a glass recycler). Willing to trade for stuff (tools, CO2/soda keg setup, refrigerator/compressor, malt mill, etc). - Ken krkoupa at ccmail2.pacbell.com - ------------------------------------ Date sent: 04 Oct 95 12:47 PDT I have 2 complete Fermentap setups (with stands) for sale. Used for 1 batch, am going to stainless so am getting rid of them. First $35.00 plus UPS. (Cost was 29.95 each) ROTH.TER at SEATTLE.VA.GOV - ------------------------------------ Date sent: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 11:10:16 EDT 'Looks like about a 30 gallon pressure cooker. About 2' wide x 3' deep, dished out bottom a top onening with a wheel to close it that puches about 12 rods out to hold it securely closed all the way around (like a door on a ship or submarine) It has at least 3 tapped (3/4 or 1") holes on the side. The pipes coming out of these holes have been sawn off. A beautiful piece of stainless work. It's not mine, it's in the stainless pile at my local scrap yard and I hate to think that it will be cut up for scrap rather than turned into a beer machine. It's too big for me and my SO doesn't see these things as the works of art that I do. They'll probably want 100.00 for it (it looks heavy) If anyone's interested, I'll get more details and a firm price. I'd love to see a photo of it plumbed into someone's beer system. They've also got (occasionally) syrup kegs, usually the sliding collar/non pin-lock kind of fittings. Usually $9.00 with some syrup and pressure still in them. for a couple of bucks, I'd pick these up and UPS them to anyone. These are mine....60 gallon 304 SS "kegs". 18" w x ~40" high. One 2" opening in the top. Only used once for holding water during a drop test (there's a dent in the skirt, but not in the tank). $100.00 Barrier bags...with "zippers" and heat-sealable in case you want tamper-evidence. White multi-laminate. I can get O2 and H2O permeation rates if you need them, but these are high barrier. About 6" wide x 9" high. .30 each. -Wallie Meisner 910 632 2410 Greensboro, NC uscgc2r3 at ibmmail.com - ------------------------------------ Date sent: Thu, 19 Oct 95 14:06:32 0500 I used to have a homebrew supply business in my house. Due to the high cost of advertising and my location, I gave it up. I have a very small inventory of various supplies and a few books left that I am willing to sell for cost plus shipping. If this qualifies for space in the flea market, anyone can E-Mail me at awchrd2 at peabody.sct.ucarb.com and I will send a list of present inventory to them. I am located in West Virginia-- Charleston area. Thanks, Bill Henson Note: I take Bill at his word that he is no longer an active retailler and is just letting go on old stock leftovers. This post DOES NOT constitute a change in my position of not supporting commercial 'ads' here - that's what your advertising budget is for. - ------------------------------------ WANTED: for sale or trade... Date sent: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 13:20:50 -0400 I'm looking to expand my simultaneous brewing capability with a few extra carboys. I'd like another 5 and 6 gallon glass carboy. The local homebrew shop has them for about $20-25, so I suppose half that is reasonable. I can pick them up in the Boston metro area since shipping would probably be prohibitively expensive. Thanks in advance! - -- Carlin Vieri MIT Artificial Intelligence Laboratory cvieri at ai.mit.edu Cambridge, MA 02139 (617) 253-8170 - ------------------------------------ Date sent: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 15:48:00 -0500 Wanted to buy: A couple of 5 gal soda kegs, preferably pin lock type. St Pats in Texas sells the pin lock type for $21 plus shipping. Condition is not real important as long as they hold pressure. Anyone have one or two for less than that? INTERNET REPLIES TO -> andy.watts at ase.com in Hagerstown, Md. - ------------------------------------ Date sent: Fri, 13 Oct 95 17:28:20 -2400 Wanted:3 cajun cookers for 3 tiered gravity system.I,m on Vancouver Island in B.C.,Canada. Kris Masson <kmasson at island.net> - ------------------------------------ Well, that's it for this month. I'll hold the 'polls' open for a while longer. Figure this 'sample' may prompt some more voting... Part III of III (apparently, this ain't gonna be easy either! This is the third attempt to get the HTML converted in such a way that the HBD likes it. Rejection. I *HATE* rejection...) Pat Babcock | "Beer is my obsession, and I'm late for President, Brew-Master | therapy..." -PGB and Chief Taste-Tester | "Let a good beer be the exclamation point Drinkur Purdee pico Brewery | at the end of your day as every sentence pbabcock at oeonline.com | requires proper punctuation." -PGB SYSOP on The HomeBrew University - Motor City Campus BBS (313)397-9758 Visit the Homebrew Flea Market via http://oeonline.com/~pbabcock Return to table of contents
Date: 24 Oct 95 01:40:05 MDT (Tue) From: rcd at raven.eklektix.com (Dick Dunn) Subject: Mason jars and positive pressure "Mason jars" (canning jars with screw-down rubber-seal lids" will survive holding substantial positive pressure, even though they're designed to handle negative internal pressure, because of how the canning process works. When you "can" food in one of these jars, you fill it, put on the flat lid-top, and screw a ring around it to hold it down. Then you "process" it, either in a boiling-water bath or in a pressure canner. In either case, you end up creating more pressure inside the jar than the seal will contain, so gases escape through the screwed-down lid. The design is intentionally arranged so that internal pressure will lift the lid and escape...this is part of the process of driving out the air (replacing it with steam) in the headspace. As the jar cools, things contract inside and that's when the seal forms, sucking the rubber-lined cap down against the glass and ultimately deforming it to make a one-time seal. So...although I wouldn't recommend sealing beer in canning jars since it's using the design backwards, I'd expect them to be able to handle a lot of positive-pressure abuse without breaking because they're designed to be able to vent excess internal pressure. - --- Dick Dunn rcd at talisman.com -or- raven!rcd Boulder, Colorado USA ...Simpler is better. Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1866, 10/25/95