HOMEBREW Digest #1935 Mon 15 January 1996

[Prev HBD] [Index] [Next HBD] [Back]

		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor

  NEW from Sam Adams (Phil Brushaber)
  Your in hot water now young man! (Steve Comella)
  caramelising sugars and STEAM beer (Andy Walsh)
  isinglass shelf life? (wirwin)
  Reality, Open Ferm (Jack Schmidling)
  beerchat starting to gain support... (John Herman)
  thermostats (dludwig)
  Undeliverable Message (MS2)
  Undeliverable Message (MS2)
  where in europe to go? ("Rick Violet")
  Air Ionizers and Sanitation (CBARNHAR)
  5 liter mini kegs (SSLOFL)
  Candied Camera, Great shop (Russell Mast)
  open fermentation / pectinase (GREGORY KING)
  brewers resource (Alec Saunders)
  Any experience with QUOIN "Party Pig"? (Daniel T. Hedberg )
  pH & hot break, tannins & PVPP, more Crabtree... ("Tracy Aquilla")
  Wyeast's Scottish Ale yeast temperature range? (Derrick Pohl)
  Good service from Quoin, too (Jacob Galley)
  oxygen equipment (Rick Larson)
  fruit beers (Waverly)" <kbooth at isd.ingham.k12.mi.us>
  Hop tea/Fruit beer question ("William G. Rucker")

****************************************************************** * POLICY NOTE: Due to the incredible volume of bouncing mail, * I am going to have to start removing addresses from the list * that cause ongoing problems. In particular, if your mailbox * is full or your account over quota, and this results in bounced * mail, your address will be removed from the list after a few days. * * If you use a 'vacation' program, please be sure that it only * sends a automated reply to homebrew-request *once*. If I get * more than one, then I'll delete your address from the list. ****************************************************************** ################################################################# # # YET ANOTHER NEW FEDERAL REGULATION: if you are UNSUBSCRIBING from the # digest, please make sure you send your request to the same service # provider that you sent your subscription request!!! I am now receiving # many unsubscribe requests that do not match any address on my mailing # list, and effective immediately I will be silently deleting such # requests. # ################################################################# NOTE NEW HOMEBREW ADDRESS hpfcmgw! Send articles for __publication_only__ to homebrew at hpfcmgw.fc.hp.com (Articles are published in the order they are received.) Send UNSUBSCRIBE and all other requests, ie, address change, etc., to homebrew-request@ hpfcmgw.fc.hp.com, BUT PLEASE NOTE that if you subscribed via the BITNET listserver (BEER-L at UA1VM.UA.EDU), then you MUST unsubscribe the same way! If your account is being deleted, please be courteous and unsubscribe first. Please don't send me requests for back issues - you will be silently ignored. For "Cat's Meow" information, send mail to lutzen at alpha.rollanet.org ARCHIVES: An archive of previous issues of this digest, as well as other beer related information can be accessed via anonymous ftp at ftp.stanford.edu. Use ftp to log in as anonymous and give your full e-mail address as the password, look under the directory /pub/clubs/homebrew/beer directory. AFS users can find it under /afs/ir.stanford.edu/ftp/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer. If you do not have ftp capability you may access the files via e-mail using the ftpmail service at gatekeeper.dec.com. For information about this service, send an e-mail message to ftpmail at gatekeeper.dec.com with the word "help" (without the quotes) in the body of the message.
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 11 Jan 96 19:20:00 -0600 From: phil.brushaber at lunatic.com (Phil Brushaber) Subject: NEW from Sam Adams For what it's worth, I thought you might be interested in some Samuel Adams promotional information I recently received at my restaurant. NEW BREWS IN 1996 Golden Pilsner (out 2/96) - Comment: If you stick around long enough everything comes full-circle - 2-Row Barley, Saaz and Spalt Hops - BBC Description: A traditional Bohemian Pilsner, medium bodied and full of flavor (Hold on to your hat) HOMEBREWS (out 5/96) - Comment: Homebrew from a commercial brewery? Kind of like "Homemade Jelly" from Smucker's - Ale, Lager, Specialty - BBC Description: Introduction of a new line of homebrews selected from 1,600 homebrews from around the world. Winners chosen by an all-star panel (Michael Jackson, Jim Koch, Joseph Owades and the BBC master brewers) For what it's worth. - ---- The Lunatic Fringe * Richardson, TX * 214-235-5288 * Home Of FringeNet Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 19:54:59 -0700 From: brew2u at azstarnet.com (Steve Comella) Subject: Your in hot water now young man! >Date: Tue, 9 Jan 1996 09:29:45 -0700 (MST) >From: "Richard R. Cox" <cox at fortnet.org> >Subject: Adding boiling water to mash > > >I'm preparing to make my first all-grain batch using a >converted Rubbermaid-Gott cooler as a combined mash/lauter >tun. So far, I've read several accounts from people who >compensate for the heating and volume limitations of the >cooler by using boiling water to boost mash temperatures or >achieve mashout. My question is this: won't adding boiling >water directly to the mash have the same affect as boiling >the mash (i.e. leaching of tannins and astringency)? Or does >the mash temperature stabilize quickly enough that this is >not a a problem? > >Thanks in advance for your combined wisdom. I think the difference here is in the *mash* temperature as opposed to the strike temperature. For example, by boiling the mash, the *mash* reaches 203F (boiling temp here). However, by adding a pre-determined amount of 203F water *to* the mash, the temperature of the mash will stabilize at 128F or 155F or whatever your target temperature may be. The important thing here is *to stir* while *slowly* adding the boiling water to the mash. This reduces the possibility of *hot spots* in your mash. Steve Comella brew2u at azstarnet.com Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 14:32:33 +1100 (EST) From: awalsh at crl.com.au (Andy Walsh) Subject: caramelising sugars and STEAM beer Hello. There has been some discussion recently on caramelising sucrose as a replacement for candi sugar for brewing. I have some comments on this. What is caramel? How do you make it? How far do you take the process? With reference to the "New Larousse Gastronomique", the world's greatest cookery reference book, according to the cover (! - how many homebrewing books make similar claims?), boiling sugar takes it through a number of stages, named according to the manner the sugar behaves after being cooled. The temperatures shown are the temperatures at which the stages are reached (interestingly in another paragraph it makes contradictory claims about these temperatures!) small thread large thread small ball large ball light crack 129C medium crack 133C hard crack 143C extra hard crack 168C caramel 180C The book says to first make a syrup by dissolving the sugar in 1/3 of its weight of water, and to heat it in a heavy based saucepan, without stirring as it causes graining. Another way of preventing graining is to add 100g glucose per 500g sucrose. Charlie Scandrett has expressed concerns about heating in direct fired pots causing uncontrollable scorching at the metal/solution boundary. Fortunately us homebrewers usually would only want to make small quantities of caramel, so if we heat sugar syrup in a clear glass bowl in a microwave oven, we can observe the colour and remove it at the correct stage, and be assured of fairly even heating. I have done this twice now, in an attempt to get some caramel flavour into Belgian ales. Both were around 1.070 OG. In the first (I'll call it Fred) I caramelised 500g sugar (just to a light amber colour) in a 45 litre batch, and added an additional (uncaramelised) 500g sucrose to the boil. In the second darker beer (Pete) I caramelised 1Kg of sugar to a dark amber colour. I added both as (hot!) liquid to boiling wort. (Be careful if you do this! 180C caramel has massive boilover potential. Add it slowly and carefully!) Well it worked! Both beers have an excessive caramel/sweet flavour and aroma. Fred finished at 1.016 and Pete at 1.022. The aroma is quite nice with fragant caramel tones but strong. The flavour in both is just over the top caramel. I fermented both with the same yeast strain (Yeastlabs Belgian) and I use pure O2 aeration etc.. *If* I try caramelising sugar again, I would use possibly use just 100g in a 45l batch. I think some Belgian ales benefit from a little caramel aroma/taste (eg. dubbels), but the amounts I used are excessive. I do not know how the Belgians make their dark candi sugar but I think my technique is way off the track somewhere. Probably a better way to get the caramel taste is to use speciality Belgian crystal malts (unavailable to me). I am yet to read in beer mags/books a thorough treatment of caramel. ************** Steam beer? Is it true this has been trademarked worldwide? Could a brewery open in Australia (just for *example*!) and make and sell "Steam" beer, or would they risk the wrath/lawsuits of Fritz Maytag? ************************************************************* Andy Walsh from Sydney email: awalsh at world.net (or awalsh at crl.com.au if you prefer) I still don't know what a Wohlgemuth unit is. ************************************************************* Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 20:47:46 -0700 From: wirwin at envisionet.net Subject: isinglass shelf life? oh great multitude... would anyone hazard a guess as to the shelf life of kent's isinglass solution if kept refrigerated? many thanks. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 96 21:36 CST From: arf at mcs.com (Jack Schmidling) Subject: Reality, Open Ferm >From: merino at cynergy.com.au (Charlie Scandrett) >Subject: Gorrilla proofing Maltmills >I live in Brisbane, Australia, Maltmills haven't migrated here yet. I was basing it on what I thought would be adequate. They are a bit of an endangered species DownUnder but there are a few. >I have a suggestion which would stop all such breakages. If the shaft is 3/8" and not 3/4", then it has a much lower resistance to bending. Time for a reality check. The "problem" I reported on has occurred possibly 3 times that I am aware of. I simply brought it up because in all of the cases, chains and or gears were used to drive the mill and I suspect a connection between the two. Someone posted a recommendation that I (the one who must honor the lifetime warranty) do not agree with. I pride myself in having a totally reliable product and need to really dig to find problems at this stage in the evolution of the product. This one seems to be one that is best solved by the customer as opposed to a major redisign that would simply serve to increase the cost without any serious impact on the reliability. Just for the record, the MMII has a 5/8" shaft >From: Tom Messenger <kmesseng at slonet.org> >2. Maltmills: no need to power them. But if you are lazy... use a portable drill. The proprietor of Doc's Cellar in Pismo Beach used to grind his customers malt with this method and I timed him at 10 pounds in about two and a half minutes. I bought a mill and fretted when I found my drill had only about 90% enough power to run it. .... I used to demonstrate the MM with a Black and Decker Cordless with about 1% of the power required to run the mill fully loaded. If you prefer not to crank, just hand feed the malt at a rate your drill can accommodate. You can also close up the grain guide opening with a piece of tape and acomplish the same purpose. js >From: Tim Laatsch <LAATSCH at kbs.msu.edu> >I would like to begin experimenting with open fermentation and would like to hear from those of you who do it routinely.... What exactly defines "open" fermentation? Is it still considered "open" if I place the lid loosely on the fermenter? (Yes, according to Jim B.) If you accept Jim's definition, then I "do it routinely" but I think it a bit of a stretch to call something with a lid on it, "open". Open fermenter brings to my mind, big wooden vats in dusty old breweries with cob webs hanging all over. There are all sorts of risks in this approach but the results speak for themselves. The idea of fermenting in a glass carboy with an airlock and mucking around with blowoff gives me a headache but is the other extreme. I have been fermenting in my mash tun for years and would not do it any other way. After sparging is complete, I dump the spent grain. (actually, I give it to the chickens now), boil a quart of water for in it for a few minutes with the lid on and then put it in the fridge, ready for fermenting. Nothing could be simpler or more convenient. >I assume that the "open" period should begin as soon as a krauesen layer covers the surface of the fermenting beer and should last until the foam begins to subside and break apart. Any dissention yet? Yes. You will have to find a new word to make sense out of that statement. If you cover it, it ain't open and if you don't cover it , you are nuts. Well, lets just say there is no reason for not covering it. I leave it in the primary fermenter with a lid on for about 10 days or until; the wort clears. I don't mean xtal clear but that point when a large quantity of beer, seen from the top, turns from a milky look to very dark. It is then kegged and conditioned. If you don't keg, you would put it in a carboy with an airlock at this time to fully clear before bottling. js Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 21:27:42 -0600 (CST) From: John Herman <jmherman at gonix.gonix.com> Subject: beerchat starting to gain support... I just wanted to let everyone know that I have put some info on how to get to beerchat on my homepage and there seems to be a few people stopping in to check it out. my homepage is : http://www.gonix.com/jmherman/jmbeer.html check it out! happy homebrewing! ************************************************************************* * John M. Herman | Internet: jmherman at gonix.com * ************************************************************************* * Amateur Freelance Programmer With Absolutely No Experience * * homebrewing cuz its fun to make your own brew!!!! * ************************************************************************* Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 01:09:49 -0500 From: dludwig at atc.ameritel.net Subject: thermostats Regarding my post on 1/5 concerning an application of the Hunter Set n Save thermostat for a cool beer frig, I've had quite a few requests for details so I decided to post my response to the HBD for public scrutiny. (I have no affiliation with any of the companies mentioned in this post) The thermostat is a Hunter Set 'n Save I (model 42204) and costs about $27 at Lowes. It's powered by a AA battery, has an LCD and is programmable over a temperature range of 40 to 90 deg F. It displays actual temperature down to 32 deg F. This is the cheapest digital thermostat I could find. The stat is designed to replace your home thermostat and for 26 VAC. My freezer has a rudimentry thermostat that switches the 110 VAC house current to the compressor and since the Hunter is designed to switch 26 VAC, I had to build a transformer/rectifier/ relay(TRR) unit. My freezer draws 2.2 Amps so my relay needed to handle that with some margin. The parts for the TRR came from radio shack and are as follows: 273-1512 25.2V transformer (1) 276-1141 Epoxy Rectifier(diode) (2) 272-1020 2200 uF capacitor (1) 275-248 Mini 10A SPDT relay (1) 276-149 PC board (1) 270-744 PC-mount fuse clips (set) 271-110 Thermistor (1) rubber grommets Metal box The TRR is a simple transformer with full-wave rectifier and a capacitor to smooth out the dc. I use a 1 amp fuse to the transformer but that's probably overkill. The Mini 10amp relay is mounted to the board and has plenty of rating for this application. All of the electronic parts cost about $22. But you could get by cheaper if you had some old electronics laying around. I won't go into detail on how to build the board. Check out the "Building Power Supplies" book at radio shack. I knew little about power supplies until I bought that book and had a great time building it! The set n save uses a thermistor that is also identical to the one sold at radio shack. I removed the thermistor and attached leads to the stat board that attach to the temp probe I made. I wanted to mount a temp probe somewhere inside the freezer approximately mid level. I built the probe by soldering leads to a new thermistor and coating the thermistor and soldered leads (bare metal) with 5 minute epoxy. I put a pretty good glob of glue on the thermistor/leads and rotated the mess around to form a hardened glob of glue big enough in diameter so that a 3/16 ID tube would form an interference fit over it and also made sure that the glob was not over the actual thermistor, but over the soldered part. I formed a very thin layer of epoxy over the thermistor by doing this. I think this helps with the temperature sensing response of the thermistor although the mass of glue over the leads has some negative effect but not a big deal in my opinion. I wanted to slide the tube over the glue glob to form a tight seal and the tube goes through the freezer wall protecting the leads. I installed the temperature probe and soldered the leads to the board (where the old thermistor was). Before I did all this I satisfied myself that the thermistors were the same by comparing the resistances with a digital multimeter. I am very familiar with this particular thermistor since I use a similarly made probe for all my mashes by reading resistance and using calibration curves made from the calibration data on the back of the thermistor package. Once I assembled and soldered the leads to the board, I calibrated the unit by soaking the probe in an ice bath(with some salt) and made sure the unit read 32 degrees(actually 33 with occasional 32 deg showing on the display). The set n save has a pot for calibration. Mine didn't really need much fiddling to get it right. The wiring of the TRR takes a little creativity to make it neat. Mine is wired so that the existing freezer thermostat is still operational which is set at the highest setting(highest temp) so that if my thermostat fails, the resulting beer sickles will be not as hard as they could be. If I were to do it over, I would make a plug in/plugout box rather than try to make an integral installation. By doing so, you could easily take the unit from cold box to cold box. Everything is working good. I have the unit set at 40 deg F (I do like cold beer!). Temperature varies from 39 to 41 deg F(unit kicks on after 12 seconds when 42 deg is reached). When I get ready to lager, it will be simple to set my desired lagering temperature. The set n save will also accept a time/day based temperature schedule although I have yet to find a real use for this unless the feature could be used to gradually reduce the fermentation temperature of a lager over a period of a week or less. Hope this helps. Have fun! -Dave Ludwig in Snowy Southern MD Return to table of contents
Date: 12 JAN 96 03:43:04 EST From: MS2 at os.dhhs.gov Subject: Undeliverable Message To: Phil White at ASMB.BUDG at OS.DC C=US/A=INTERNET/DDA=ID/homebrew(a)hpfcmgw.fc.hp.com Cc: Subject: Homebrew Digest #1933 (January 12, 1996) Message not delivered to recipients below. VNM3043: Phil White at ASMB.BUDG at OS.DC **** Attachment message(s) will follow in 2 separate transmissions. Return to table of contents
Date: 12 JAN 96 03:43:04 EST From: MS2 at os.dhhs.gov Subject: Undeliverable Message **** Main message start To: Phil White at ASMB.BUDG at OS.DC C=US/A=INTERNET/DDA=ID/homebrew(a)hpfcmgw.fc.hp.com Cc: Subject: Homebrew Digest #1933 (January 12, 1996) Message not delivered to recipients below. VNM3043: Phil White at ASMB.BUDG at OS.DC **** Main message end **** An attachment message follows ... Return-Path: <rdg at hpfcmgw.fc.hp.com> Received: FROM hpfcla.fc.hp.com BY ban-unix.os.dhhs.gov with ESMTP ; 12 JAN 96 03:40:49 EST Received: from hpfcmgw (hpfcmgw.fc.hp.com) by hpfcla.fc.hp.com with SMTP ( 3.20) id AA116935476; Fri, 12 Jan 1996 01:31:16 -0700 Received: by hpfcmgw ( 3.22) id AA07432; Fri, 12 Jan 1996 01:00:05 -0700 Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 01:00:05 -0700 Message-Id: <9601120800.AA07432 at hpfcmgw> To: homebrew at hpfcmgw.fc.hp.com From: homebrew-request@ hpfcmgw.fc.hp.com (Request Address Only - No Articles) Reply-To: homebrew at hpfcmgw.fc.hp.com (Posting Address Only - No Requests) Errors-To: homebrew-request@ hpfcmgw.fc.hp.com Precedence: bulk Subject: Homebrew Digest #1933 (January 12, 1996) Return to table of contents
Date: 12 Jan 1996 02:50:23 -0800 From: "Rick Violet" <rick_violet at powertalk.apple.com> Subject: where in europe to go? I'm hoping to vacation in europe this fall. Anyone know where I can get info on good beer related places to visit? Anyone ever join or know of groups touring beer related sites? Any comments are welcome by private email. I'll post a summary if enough comes in. Thanks in advance, Rick. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 12:36:31 -0800 From: CBARNHAR at ria-emh2.army.mil Subject: Air Ionizers and Sanitation Hi All, I was wondering the other day, are air ionizers beneficial to sanitation. Would the presence of one tend to reduce the possibility of airborne contamination? They apparently work by flooding the air with negatively charged ions which attach themselves to dust, smoke (and bacteria?) then rush towards the nearest postively charged surface such as walls, ceilings, and appliances where they stick like magnets. This scrubbing action would seem to reduce some of the airborne contaminents that are present when preparing yeast starters or around open cooled wort. Just curious. Chris Barnhart Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 10:36:57 -0600 From: SSLOFL at ccmail.monsanto.com Subject: 5 liter mini kegs Has anyone out there had success using a 5 liter mini keg setup with the CO2 bulb dispenser? I wanted to know how to use one correctly before putting another batch of beer in one and finding that I can't get it to work right. I tried twice before - once with rootbeer and once with a strawberry ale. The rootbeer came out very carbonated at first - it filled the glass with foam and left only 1 inch of pop after the foam settled - overkill!. However, after the pop had settled, the remaining rootbeer was flat. I turned down the serving pressure and ran a little out, then tried again. Less foam evolved after lowering the pressure, and the pop came out in a steady stream with a nice head on it. I thought I had it right, but the same thing happened - it went flat within 5 minutes of serving. I had bottled the rest of the rootbeer batch for comparison, it was great. The bottled rootbeer had a good head on it, but held the carbonation much better - it didn't go flat after 5 minutes. Therefore, I proved to myself that there was something wrong with the keg and not the rootbeer. I used rootbeer first because it is very cheap to make, I didn't want to mess up a precious batch of beer on the first try with the new kegs - good thing I didn't! I then tried with a batch of strawberry ale, which I later found to be infected. The bottled strawberry ale had a good carbonation level, and had good head retention. The kegged strawberry ale was the same as the kegged rootbeer - the head quickly disappeared, and the beer tasted flat within 5 minutes. Of course, in either form, the strawberry ale was infected and tasted like s*&t! Even though it was infected, the bottled form stayed carbonated longer - so I concluded again that it was the fault of the keg as far as carbonation problems were concerned. I want to try again , but am seeking advice first. Can anyone out there give me some advice on how to use one of these with good results - or if it is even possible to get good results from them? Yes, I know, buy a real kegging system .... I am building a home-brewery in my basement and don't have the money right now - and I bought the kegs awhile ago and wish to get some of my moneys worth out of them. Maybe I am using the wrong amount of priming sugar, or my serving pressure is adjusted incorrectly. Are there any other tricks, like using more hops for better head retention or only using mini kegs for heavier bodied or lightly carbonated styles? Please ...., someone .., I'm losing my mind!!!! Private e-mail is fine, or post responses on the HBD if you feel others may benefit or care. TIA. Shane Lofland (sslofl at ccmail.monsanto.com) Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 10:37:17 -0600 From: Russell Mast <rmast at fnbc.com> Subject: Candied Camera, Great shop > Russ writes: > >Can anyone tell me a reason not to just make my own rock candy and toss that > >in my beers? Al responds: > No need to make it into rocks. White candi sugar == sucrose == table sugar. > Just use it (tm)! Okay, the reason I initially asked was that someone was saying it's special because it's been crytallized, and that makes it super-pure. In fact, they specifically said not to use regular table sugar because it wasn't pure enough. This strikes me as, well, silly, now that I bother to think about it. On the other hand, when I was initially brewing, I had all kinds of people tell me to -never- use table sugar, and only use corn sugar if I wanted to add pure sugar. So, what's the "real" story? Is this just another example of Belgians breaking the rules and getting great results? I've been told that sucrose adds "off" flavors that glucose doesn't. Are these flavors important to some styles? Is there something magical about larger crystals that makes them work better for these styles? > As for dark candi sugar, yes, just caramelize table sugar syrup and use that. Any VOE? (Voice o' Experience) I'll definately try that in a batch soon. > From: Douglas Thomas <thomasd at uchastings.edu> > Subject: pH strips > > I just ordered 200 strips, at 1.50 a hundred, from American Surplus and > Scientific. It's American Scientific and Surplus, I thought. Whichever. I have pH strips from there, and they're as good as any I've ever tried. Which is to say - not that good. I can only read them to within a half a pH or so on a good day. YMMV. One thing I will say, though, is that AS&S is one of the greatest stores on the planet. If you live in Chicago, or visit Chicago and have a couple hours, definately go check them out. I buy loads of stuff for brewing and my other hobby (DIY stereo, with vacuum tubes and all that) at the store, as well as tons of toys and other weird crap. Just browsing the store is loads of fun. Order from the catalog if you see something you need, but there's always more stuff in the store than the catalogs. Definately worth a side-trip now and then. -R Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 11:59:08 -0500 (EST) From: GREGORY KING <GKING at ARSERRC.Gov> Subject: open fermentation / pectinase jfrane at teleport.com (Jeff Frane) wrote in HBD #1933 about open fermentations: >Since I started doing open fermentations (encouraged by Jim Busch), >I have not looked back. Blow-off hoses are gone forever. > >I regularly ferment in a converted keg/kettle, doing ten gallon >batches that finish out in a matter of days. It's typical that >a 1.045 beer will be coming out of the tap ten days after brew >day. I attribute this to two factors: yeast selection and the >tremendous improvement in aeration that I got when I switched to >open fermenters. <snip> I was all set to try Jeff's open fermentation technique for my next batch until I read a posting from korz at pubs.ih.att.com (Algis R Korzonas) later in the same HBD: >You don't want to aerate after the fermentation begins. <snip> Aeration >after fermentation begins will increase the >production of diacetyl and can lead to high levels of aldehydes in the >finished beer. I'm hoping that Jeff and/or Al will write a follow-up posting to clarify this apparent discrepancy. *** Hugh Graham <hugh at lamar.ColoState.EDU> wrote (also in HBD #1933): >Will _any_ protease rid my melomel of a potential pectin haze? >Probably not I assume. >What's that enzyme used for zapping chill haze? Will that work? >The name escapes me but I know I've got some somewhere.. . . Pectin is a saccharidic (i.e. sugar) polymer, not a protein. The enzyme pectinase helps to break pectin into its constituent sugars. I'm not sure if pectinase is commercially available or not. Greg King gking at arserrc.gov Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 10:07:20 -0800 From: Alec Saunders <alecs at microsoft.com> Subject: brewers resource just in case some of you haven't heard of these folks, they're a mailorder homebrew company with a pretty good selection of some of the more esoteric pieces of equipment. I usually buy all of my supplies and equipment at evergreen because it's convenient, but these folks carry such unusual items as yeast culture kits, wort aeration kits, and other goodies that Mark at Evergreen doesn't stock. Call 800-8BREWTE for a catalog. as begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT M>)\^(A\2`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0! at `(````Y 0```````#H``$( at <` M& ```$E032Y-:6-R;W-O9G0 at 36%I;"Y.;W1E`#$(`06 `P`.````S <!``P` M" at `'`!0`!0`*`0$ at at ,`# at ```,P'`0`,``H`!P`4``4`" at $!"8 !`"$```!! M,SA&,C)"0C4Q-$-#1C$Q.#E".3%#-D,P,T,Q,# P, `2!P$- at 0`` at ````(` M` at `!!( !`!$```!B<F5W97)S(')E<V]U<F-E`((&`0.0! at #0`P``% ```$ ` M.0"POJ?0&.&Z`1X`< `!````$0```&)R97=E<G, at <F5S;W5R8V4`````` at %Q M``$````6`````;KA%QW9NR*/I$Q1$<^)N1QL`\$``````P`&$(W at =S at #``<0 M7P$``!X`"! !````90```$I54U1)3D-!4T533TU%3T993U5(059%3E1(14%2 M1$]&5$A%4T5&3TQ+4RQ42$594D5!34%)3$]21$522$]-14)215=#3TU004Y9 M5TE42$%04D545%E'3T]$4T5,14-424].3T8``````P`0$ `````#`!$0```` M``(!"1 !````* at (``"8"```;`P``3%I&=6K#H[C_``H!#P(5`J0#Y 7K`H,` M4!,#5 (`8V at *P'-E=.XR! at `&PP*#, at /&!Q," at S8S#W\0AS0"XP(`<'*6<1+Q M$;=7"X!G9!=1NG," at 'T* at C/"=D[&,+\,3D2\ G#&C(*,AHQ`H"/"H$-L0M at M%V Q,#,4(!<+"A+R`= at "H5J=7,C!4 + at "!C81'P('-#`W >T&]F('D(8""5 M$<!V"? G!4!H90L1'1\R=" P'L$"$&QK<Q(L(+)Y)QC0(&$ at OP# `Q %L 2! M'Z ?`6(8T(L'X 6 at ;0JP;GD at `_ O(, B`190$ at !T(\!G;Y,$<![ at 96P%D'1I M`B!_'S(>]B#!(B %L![0!Y!OVG0&<6,D0 B08P>1'T$X97%U!2 ' at (P+B"H M($D at 'C!U!T!L(\#<8G4CP"DQ'S)M(\ I$/YP"U (D 0 at `' at <" at G( at !U!4!E M']!R"<,I< 608;<>,![0(_ G!" %H&X?T7\(D (P(7 I at 5 (,D>D7)N<BI" M$; H\&XI`RT1939M*M$$('D at 0!Y!8W5L;'0(<![0:R/P(6%W_QAQ( at `$D"O0 M)7(QU"KR)Q"_(# %P"3"*K( at P"O130K RFLKPD4L%V1O!Y ?\E$>0&]C:RBQ M0RG". `P,"TX0E)%5_Q412$1!< B$!Z at `9 88)QG+ at J/"Y$4(C$W'::="O1Q M`. +5171<S,2\'IC`$%B,+$YOSD3%_$``3Z at ```#`/$_"00```,`) at `````` M"P`C```````+`"D```````,`- at ``````` at %'``$````P````8SU54SMA/2 [ M<#UM<V9T.VP]4D5$+3<Q+4U31RTY-C Q,3(Q.# W,C!:+30Y,3,`0 `',&"Z MI<\8X;H!0 `(,( WIM 8X;H!`P`--/T_```"`10T`0```! ```!4E*' *7\0 ;&Z6'" `K*B47' at `]``$````!`````````%X% ` end Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 96 13:16:14 PST From: k6eid at avana.net Subject: COOKER BTU RATING? I saw some messages on this a few months ago but didn't keep notes. Sorry! What is an acceptable BTU rating for a cooker? I saw a 170K BTU unit at Sam's Club for $50. Is this adequate? Thanks, Phil - ------------------------------------- Name: Phil Finkle E-mail: k6eid at avana.net Date: 01/12/96 Time: 13:16:14 This message was sent by Chameleon - ------------------------------------- Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 11:00:21 -0800 From: dhedberg at ix.netcom.com (Daniel T. Hedberg ) Subject: Any experience with QUOIN "Party Pig"? Richard Nantel asked for input (in HBD #1930 (01/09/96)) about the pros and cons of Mini vs Corney Kegs. I am also new to HBD and am similarly considering buying a kegging system. My apologies to all if I expand this topic a bit, but in addition to the Mini and Corney kegs, has anyone out there had experience with the QUOIN "Party Pig"? The manufacturer tells me that a growing number of brewpubs are using the party pigs to sell beer off-site to their regular customers. I would think that these "Pigs" must be durable if they are used by brewpubs and that they must keep beer fresh for at least a few weeks (unlike the Mini kegs which I'm told beer gets flat if not consumed within a week or so). However my local homebrew supply store won't carry the party pig explaining that he the Pig uses less than industrial grade materials (read "plastic") and that he had heard (secondhand) that they leak. I'm leaning toward the Pig due to space limitations (they supposedly fit in a mini- fridge) and the relatively low price (roughly $82 for 2 Pigs and all accessories). Yet, I'm nervous about wasting my money on a products I've heard so little about. Any input + or - would be appreciated. BTW - I did attempt to research this using the Archive files before posting, but I'm not familiar with the type of files or compression method used in the Archive files (i.e. "1995ind.z"). Pardon my ignorance but can any point me in the right direction? Thanks to all HBD'ers out there with the patience to answer the questions of "newbies" such as myself, I'm learning a lot! Daniel Hedberg Private E-mail OK at dhedberg at ix.netcom.com Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 96 14:49:56 CST From: "Tracy Aquilla" <aquilla at salus.med.uvm.edu> Subject: pH & hot break, tannins & PVPP, more Crabtree... In Digest #1933, korz at pubs.ih.att.com (Algis R Korzonas) says: [snip] >It's fine to say yes, but it doesn't help if you don't explain. [snip] A pH of >less than 5.0 will extract even less [tannin], but then you begin to have >problems with break formation in the boil. Can you please explain how a pH below 5 interferes with the hot break? Thanks. [snip] >but the fining that *will* remove tannins is PVPP (aka Polyclar). It will >not remove proteins...[snip] How's that? I've read this before, but have a hard time accepting it without an explanation of the mechanism of this selectivity. What am I missing? and jfrane at teleport.com (Jeff Frane) says: [snip] >Since I started doing open fermentations (encouraged by Jim Busch), >I have not looked back. Blow-off hoses are gone forever. Do you also open-ferment lagers (if you make lagers)? I do open fermentation with certain top-cropping strains (ales, weizens, etc.), but wouldn't recommend it for bottom-croppers for various reasons, including: 1) not much of a mat to protect the wort from airborne contaminants, 2) the lager fridge is full of these nasty critters, 3) lager strains ferment more slowly, making contamination more of a potential problem. Personally, I haven't noticed any differences in quality between ales produced using open and closed fermentations, which can be attributed to the open fermentation. Since you don't really want to get into the 'whys', I'll keep my question simple. Would you please describe the improvements in quality you've noted in your open-fermented beers? Thanks. and Hugh Graham <hugh at lamar.ColoState.EDU> says: [snip] >Studies in our lab indicate that S. cerevisae do use oxygen when subject >to the Crabtree effect. They make a cytochrome (oxygen transport related >enzyme) during glucose repressed growth that is not found during anaerobic >fermentation. Furthermore, dissolved oxygen measurements indicate that >oxygen _is_ being consumed while glucose levels are high and ethanol is >being produced (though not as much as in non-repressed growth). Typically >the biosmass yield (weight of bugs per weight of glucose) drops from about >50% to 15-20% under catabolite repression. These experiments do not bear >a close relationship to conditions found in brewing but they indicate that >Crabtree effect fermentation is somewhat different from anaerobic >fermentation. Anybody want a reference? Tracy? Excellent! Yes, I'd certainly like the reference and I'm glad to see others contributing to this discussion. This post gives me the opportunity to expound a bit on this rather obscure subject. This is where we get into the exceptions to the rule and some minor biochemical pathways. It is well-documented that Saccharomycetes do utilize oxygen during fermentation (if it's available). However, the overwhelming majority of this O2 is used in biosynthesis of ergosterol and unsaturated fatty acids, not as the final electron acceptor in respiration. OTOH, in the glucose repressed state, yeast in aerobic culture are actually "respiro-fermentative", meaning that both respiration and fermentation occur simultaneously, although to a very limited extent. This may be the source of the common misconception that yeast respire upon pitching. However, only a very small (essentially negligible) amount respiration occurs in the presence of available sugars, and the vast majority of enzymes involved in respiration are strongly down-regulated (mitochondria are also rather small and poorly developed) during glucose repression. This "leaky" control of expression allows carbon to enter the biosynthetic pathways through the most efficient route. So now we have three different modes for our yeast: 1) respiro-fermentative in the presence of glucose and O2 (=aerobic fermentation), 2) fermentative in the absence of O2 (=anaerobic fermentation), and 3) 'diauxic' in the presence of O2 and ethanol and the absence of sugar (=respiration). > >>I am looking forward to Tracy's paper. > >Me too. Where will we find it? I'll post it to the digest and r.c.b, then I'll download it to the Brewery. Since I have a day job and am preparing two 'real' manuscripts for publication at this time, I'm lagging behind a little on the yeast article, but it's coming. >In any case, oxygenation/aeration is performed to make the yeast happy >(plentiful in sterols etc.) so that full attenuation occurs. It seems to >me that any link with lag time is inferred by the assumption propagated in >the homebrew literature that yeast reproduction only occurs in the >presence of oxygen. (More O2 => more propagation => more yeasties >=> shorter lag). Which, as this thread has mentioned, is not the exact truth. Actually, I think "(More O2 => more propagation => more yeasties => shorter lag)" is basically true, but I'd just like to add that not only is it generally inferred in the homebrewing literature that O2 is needed for yeast growth/reproduction (it isn't), but that this O2 is deemed necessary because the yeast MUST respire in order to grow. This is patently false and I believe is where the real problem lies and folks get confused. S. cerevisiae is one of the few species of yeast which has absolutely no requirement for O2. and finally, korz at pubs.ih.att.com (Algis R Korzonas) says: [snip] >It is also important to consider the contribution of the Pasteur effect. >While the Crabtree effect is the yeast foresaking oxygen to ferment >anaerobically in the presence of too much glucose, the Pasteur effect is >the yeast foresaking glucose to respire in the presence of a lot of oxygen. >So, if we have enough oxygen in the wort, the yeast will respire *despite* >the high glucose levels...[snip] Saccharomyces species do not exhibit the Pasteur effect. In fact, they exhibit what is called the reverse-Pasteur effect. When a fermenting culture is given an excess of O2 the yeast actually ferment faster, instead of switching to respiration. The more O2 you give them, the faster they ferment and produce ethanol and CO2 (to a point), but with sugar available they don't respire. The best way to study oxygen consumption in yeasts is to use a chemostat. In a chemostat culture, one can get yeast to respire at incredibly high levels if sugar is limiting and O2 is in excess (particularly if the medium is supplemented with certain organic acids). However, once glucose is introduced, ethanol is produced instantly. It is virtually impossible to get yeast to respire in the presence of abundant sugars (eg. wort). (See Antonie van Leeuwenhoek 63(3-4):343-52, 1993 and Adv. Microb. Physiol. 28:181-209, 1986 for the details.) Tracy in Vermont aquilla at salus.med.uvm.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 12:27:21 -0800 From: pohl at unixg.ubc.ca (Derrick Pohl) Subject: Wyeast's Scottish Ale yeast temperature range? I'd like to know how cold is too cold for Wyeast's Scottish Ale yeast. I have a batch of "wee heavy" Scottish Ale (O.G. 1.076) that's been 3 or 4 weeks in the secondary. All visible signs of fermentation have stopped, but I don't know if this is because it's done, or because the temperature in the brewing cupboard has dropped to 12-13 deg. C (53-55 deg. F). It fermented vigourously in the primary, but it was warmer in the cupboard then, about 16 or 17 deg. C, from which the temperature has dropped gradually. I could find only one brief reference to Wyeast Scottish Ale yeast on the whole web, including searching through the ftp.stanford.edu brewing archive. I haven't been able to search the HBD archives because the search engine linked to from Spencer's Beer Page (http://www-personal.umich.edu/~spencer/beer/) is down. Does anyone know, either from datasheets or personal experience, how cold this yeast can remain active? Or even the typical attenuation, so I can at least take a gravity reading and make a guess as to whether it's finished? - ----- Derrick Pohl <pohl at unixg.ubc.ca> Vancouver, B.C., Canada Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 15:34:20 -0600 (CST) From: Jacob Galley <jgalley at tezcat.com> Subject: Good service from Quoin, too Hello. A friend of mine forwarded me the post praising customer service at HopTech. This inspired me to write in about the service I got from Quoin Industries, the manufacturer of the Party Pig minikeg system. The two times I called them, they were very helpful. The first time was a technical issue. When filling my pig for the second time, I inserted the pressure pouch into the Pig upside-down by mistake, and it did not inflate. I called the number listed in directory assistance (303 279-8731), hoping that someone there could give me some advice. They did! The man I talked to was very knowledgable (he may have been the Pig's inventor for all I know), and he told me that all I had to do was turn the Pig upside down after pressurizing it and the pouch would inflate. Apparently the chemicals in the pressure pouch weren't mixing because gravity was pulling the wrong way. I took his advice and everything was fine---and the beer was good. The second time I called, I was inquiring about replacing the Pig itself (ie. the PET container), because I had deformed the original one by rinsing it with near-boiling water (yes, a stupid idea). They were willing to send me a replacement for only $9.50, which seems pretty good considering that the whole set-up costs about $40. Anyway, I haven't dealt with any other kegging hardware or service reps, but I'm very satisfied with both the Party Pig system and Quoin's service. (I'm not a HBD subscriber; Russ Mast is my filter.) Jake. Reinheitsgebot <-- "Keep your laws off my beer!" <-- jgalley at tezcat.com Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 15:48:58 -0600 (CST) From: rick at adc.com (Rick Larson) Subject: oxygen equipment I'm getting oxygen equipment together for fermentation. I can get a 20 cubic foot oxygen tank ($65 + $10 fill) or a 40 cubic foot oxygen tank ($89 + $10 fill) but I need a regulator. Do I need a special regulator or can I use a welding regulator to regulate the amount of oxygen into a air stone? Thanks, rick - -- Rick Larson rick at adc.com Minneapolis, MN Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 1996 00:42:25 -0500 (EST) From: "Kathy Booth (Waverly)" <kbooth at isd.ingham.k12.mi.us> Subject: fruit beers I crush my fruit and pastuerize it at 160 degrees F for 20 minutes, cool it t hen add to my secondary ferment. Worked great. Jim Booth Lansing MI. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 96 09:30:14 EST From: "William G. Rucker" <ruckewg at naesco.com> Subject: Hop tea/Fruit beer question Hello all, Jack S. has posted recently about making a hop tea and adding after one week in the fermenter. I took in a tour this past year of the Shipyard Brewery in Portland, Maine and This is similar to what they do. I believe they add it to the wort before fermenting. They "stew" their tea for 6 hours in a pressure cooker type machine and then run the hot wort through this as a hop back. I hope I am remembering the process correctly. This seems very similar to what Jack was saying. Shipyards beers, though good, are not my favorites and some have a fair hop bite and very good aroma. On fruit beer: I had a thought about doing something similar to above with a fruit beer. Is it possible to stew at a moderate temperature and add that to your beer after the first few days in the primary? The pectin shouldn't set and you don't have to worry about straining the spent fruit out of the fermenter. Any fruit beer afficianados out there care to comment? Please send any thoughts or comments to: brewzer at peanut.mv.com Thanks, Bill Rucker ruckewg at naesco.com - work brewzer at peanut.mv.com - home Return to table of contents