---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  Re: Slotted Copper Manifold - don't solder (Jeff Benjamin)
  White Beer (Mike Taber)
  Brewpubs in Taos, NM (BJFABB)
   (Jeff Smith)
  Brew log entries (Matt_K)
  Metal Issues ("Palmer.John")
  Re: Ringwood (Jay Reeves)
  initial ferment temperatures (Paul Ward)
  Re: sugar (Jeff Frane)
  GADUSAHEMP (Rich Hampo)
  Removing Spent Hops and Proteins from Wort ("John Boshier")
  PolyClar (Mark Riley)
  Munich Malt and Pilsener Urquell Yeast (JDPils)
  Sparge Water Temps (Aidan "Hairy Hibernian" Heerdegen)
  Traverse Brewing Academy (Mark Peacock)
  Yeast Harvest w/ Open Fermentation (Tim Laatsch)
   ("John Lifer, Jr.")
  Blow-off and skimming during ferment ("DAVID LEWIS")
  Pumps (Jim Busch)
  RE:Brewing w/Maple Sap (Michael A. Genito)
  Bad Alcohol (Aesoph, Michael)
  Help needed on building masher/boiler. (SAMES)
  Gas (fwd) (Michael Arau)
  Possible Infection (Adam Rich)
  America's Finest City Homebrew Competition (hollen)
  Diacetyl (John DeCarlo              )
  lab equip source (NATEDA)
  Cold Fermentation Cure -- Stupid Copper Manifold Tricks (KennyEddy)
  Plastic Electric Brewery (KennyEddy)
  Why Aerate if you pitch heavily? (Paul Sovcik)
  Heavy Duty Crown Cappers (Jim Doyle)
  Re:Hydrometer Adjustment, When to pitch yeast,Skimming (Bob McCowan)
  Unexpected high gravity reading (Jack Stafford)
  Doctor's opinion on Homebrew (Chris Storey)



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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Mon, 22 Jan 96 10:54:34 MST
From: Jeff Benjamin <benji at hpfcbug.fc.hp.com>
Subject: Re: Slotted Copper Manifold - don't solder

"Lee R. Posz" <lposz at cisco.com> wrote:
> I've finally decided to replace my old two bucket lauter tun
> system and have opted for a slotted 1/2" diameter copper manifold
> in a rectangular shaped 48 quart picnic cooler.
>
> Is it okay to use the solder to secure the joints or should
> I have tried harder to find compression fittings for the
> 90 degree elbow joints, etc.?

My two cents:  don't solder, don't bother with compression fittings.
If you're using 1/2" hard copper tubing and the associated couplers,
they already fit together relatively tightly.  No need to worry about
slight leakage at the joints - you've already got giant hacksaw slits
cut in a bunch of the tubing anyway!  Just fit everything together  and
plop it in the mash tun.  This has a side benefit of being able to
take the whole thing apart for easy cleaning.

On exception - you *will* need to solder or use compression fittings on
any part of the manifold that will sit above the mash liquid level,
or those joints will suck air instead of wort.  If you're going along
the bottom of the tun to a spigot, you've got nothing to worry about.

- --
Jeff Benjamin                      benji at fc.hp.com
Hewlett Packard Co.         Fort Collins, Colorado	
"Think!  It ain't illegal yet."  -- George Clinton

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Date: Mon, 22 Jan 1996 10:17:34 -0800
From: Mike_Taber at broder.com (Mike Taber)
Subject: White Beer

     Now that my English Brown Ale is in the primary...
     
     I'm thinking about doing a White Beer. I have the specifics of the 
     style (OG 1.0044 - 1.050 - Alc% 4.8 to 5.2 - IBU 15 to 25 - Color 2.0 
     to 4.0), but don't really know where to start. 
     I know what hops I like, but really can't get the color and OG right. 
     Also, I'm not sure what yeast I should use.
     
     So... Do you any of you in HBD land have a suggestion or two? 
     
     Thanks in advance for any help offered.
     
      - Mike Taber <mike_taber at broder.com>
     

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Date: Mon, 22 Jan 1996 12:30:23 -0600
From: BJFABB at ccmail.monsanto.com
Subject: Brewpubs in Taos, NM

    In March, I'll be going to a meeting in Taos, NM. Does anyone know of a good
brewpub, or other fine beer drinking establishment in this city? Also, if anyone
has a favorite place to eat Southwestern cuisine there, I'd appreciate knowing
about it. Of course, an establishment which combines great beer and Southwestern
food would be ideal. Thanks in advance; private email replies are fine.

Cheers,

 -Brad Fabbri

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Date: Mon, 22 Jan 1996 12:45:26 -0600
From: snsi at win.bright.net (Jeff Smith)
Subject: 

Lance Skidmore asks

>"what does DMS taste like"...?

This weekend being snowed in (four foot drifts in the driveway) I brewed and
tried an experiment based on a recent reference to DMS dripping back in to
the wort from brew pot lids (I'm sorry I can't find the author's name).  I
put the lid of my brew pot over the wort long enough to condense some steam
and than poured the steam into a cup.  I repeated this about four times, let
it cool and than tried it.  Can you say creamed corn!  A simple test you can
try for your friends.
Jeff Smith
'71 HD Sprint 350SX (Considering conversion to a grain mill motor.)
snsi at win.bright.net
Barnes, WI


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Date: Mon, 22 Jan 1996 14:23:10 est
From: Matt_K at ceo.sts-systems.ca
Subject: Brew log entries

To continue the "Studid Homebrewer Tricks) thread I thought you might 
get a chuckle out some entries from my brew log.  The brew was 
appropriately named "calamity Christmas Ale".

Accidents while brewing: (Homer moves)
   While picking up pot with hot mash water spill lots of it all over 
   my hands. Doooh!! Result: 1st  degree burns on left hand.
	
   Halfway through sparge realize that I didn't  have enough hops. I  
  thought I had bought 50g packs but they were only 25g.  Dooooh!    
Finish sparge, start boil, borrow Jennifer's car and blast to    
Microvin.  Get Pierre's son at the cash and have to pay full    
price!!
	
   Spill some wort on hot burner while moving kettle.  Dooooh!
   
   While boiling before 1st hop addition I get sidetracked but my    
attention is called back to the stove by a loud hissing sound!     
Nice boil-over/stink. Doooh!  Nice (small) fire under kettle from    
all the boiled over stuff. Double Doooh!

   Oh yeah, I almost forgot, I forgot to add the gypsum to the mash   
 water. Doooh!


Notes:  I'm still alive.  This is not typical of all my brew 
sessions!!  The beer turned out fine.

Matt
in Montreal



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Date: 22 Jan 1996 11:20:05 U
From: "Palmer.John" <palmer at ssdgwy.mdc.com>
Subject: Metal Issues

Hi Group,
There have been several metal related issues popping up, so I thought I would
post a summary.

Soldering:
Silver Solder is A-OK for contructing brewing equipment. Silver Solder contains
95% Tin and 5% Silver. Tin is supposed to be a haze former, but if you solder
the joint right, you are presenting very little surface area for exposure. I
use it in my system and dont worry about it. What you *should* be concerned
about is making sure that all of your Flux is removed. The flux is toxic and
should be thoroughly cleaned.  By the way, soldering the manifold pipes is not
necessary except where you need to hold it together or provide the port, after
all, its supposed to leak.

Paint Stirrers:
I have seen these at Home Depot - a simple propeller on a shaft that feels to
be plain steel with a yellowish coating on it. I talked to our plating expert
and he feels that it is most likely zinc plating with a chromate conversion
coating.
The chromate coating is certainly not healthy, but the amount is pretty small
and probably not too dangerous. The zinc plating is not dangerous but is not
very wear resistant and would not be good for the yeast. I do not recommend
using these for stirring mashes. If you can find one made of stainless steel
then fine.

Metallized Bubble Wrap:
I used this around my Mash Keg. It does indeed succomb to temps above 180F. The
lower 4-5 inches has shriveled from the heat of the burner in the year that its
been on there. I think it helps a little bit, but there are probably better
insulating materials.

Plasma Cutters;
These arc-based cutters can end up spraying the interior of the keg with
atomized iron which will rust and serve as corrosion initiation sites for the
stainless. You will need to use a stainless steel Cleanser ie. Kleen King, Bar
Keepers Friend; to clean the inside as the iron rusts off for the first few
uses. A nitric acid (25%) wash would do the job quickly, but not many people
have access to that much acid.

Hmmm, that's all of the topics I can think of at the moment. Email me if you
have more metal related issues.

John J. Palmer - Metallurgist for MDA-SSD M&P 
johnj at primenet.com  Huntington Beach, California
Palmer House Brewery and Smithy - www.primenet.com/~johnj/


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Date: Mon, 22 Jan 1996 13:17:54 -0600
From: jay at ro.com (Jay Reeves)
Subject: Re: Ringwood

Kit Anderson sez in hbd1940:

>Geary's is cold filtered  through DME. There is no yeast. Ringwood can be
>had from Yeast Labs.

DME huh?  New technique using dry malt extract here Kit?

I think you mean "DE" - Diatomaceous Earth - or at least that's what
the professional brewers I've talked with refer to it as.  It's nothing
more than a very fine siliceous material.

                                        -J


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Date: Mon, 22 Jan 1996 15:27:44 -0500 (EST)
From: Paul Ward <paulw at doc.state.vt.us>
Subject: initial ferment temperatures

After several months of reading postings which were forwarded
from a co-worer who is a subscriber, I had to break down and join
the list myself so that I could humbly beg your collective
knowledge.

I'm new to the brewing arts, and have a question concerning
initial fermentation and ambient temperature.  I'm brewing a
'Rocky Raccoon's Honey Lager' only it will be more of a steam
beer as I don't have lagering temperatures and storage available
(I know, I live in Vermont...but I heat with a woodstove and it's
actually quite warm in my house). 

My "beer cellar" is actually the spare bedroom, and I can cool
the room down some (55 deg. F)  by closing the bedroom door. 
Most recipes say that initial ferment should be done at room
temp, but my brew is bubbling away at a pretty good rate.  Should
I close the bedroom door and cool down my fermenter, or should I
keep it warm and let it go like gangbusters?

Thanks.

- -- 
If vegetarians eat vegetables, what of humanitarians?

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Date: Mon, 22 Jan 1996 12:36:32 -0800
From: jfrane at teleport.com (Jeff Frane)
Subject: Re: sugar

Al Korzonas writes:


>Jeff [that's me!] writes:
>>Sucrose does seem
>>to benefit the development of a tight, dense head in conjunction with
>>high carbonation (see various Belgian beers and Cooper's Ale);
>
>I find this hard to swallow.  I cannot see how the type of sugar used
>in the priming could affect the consistency of the head.  Jeff -- did
>you read this somewhere or is this based upon your observations. 

I was referring to the use of sucrose in the kettle, and frankly, I
can't remember the original context.  Probably I was responding to
the general perception about the undesirability of sucrose for *any*
brewing purpose.  

So, oh yes, this is based on observation -- as I said, note the
mousse in many Belgian ales and in Cooper's.

- --Jeff Frane


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Date: Mon, 22 Jan 1996 16:12:28 -0500
From: rhampo at ford.com (Rich Hampo)
Subject: GADUSAHEMP

Thanks to everyone for their input.
As of Monday the 22nd at 4 PM, here are the results of the  
Gross And Disgusting Unscientific Survey about Homebrew's 
Excessive Methane Production - (that's GADUSAHEMP, for short)

The tally was:
14 said "Homebrew gives me more gas!"
1 said "Homebrew sometimes gives me more gas!"
2 said "I notice no difference"
0 said "Budmilloors gives me more gas than homebrew"

Talk about overwhelming! So if you are embarrassed, know you are not
alone. 

As far as combatting this, some think that it is caused by the yeast,
and suggest filtering, and one person suggested using the product "Beano".
I'm sure all of us poor smelly homebrewers would appreciate any other
remedies you may have tried. 

Thanks for your input!

Richard Hampo
H&H Brewing Ltd.

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Date: Mon, 22 Jan 96 16:40:06 CST
From: "John Boshier" <john.boshier at telops.gte.com>
Subject: Removing Spent Hops and Proteins from Wort

Hi Everyone:
Here is a question from lurker world.  While brewing my latest batch of 
brew, an extract Pale Ale, I had some difficulty while transferring the 
wort from brewpot to fermenter.

I usually brew the concentrated wort (2 gal), chill and then add to 3 
gallons of previously boiled and cooled water.  Generally I pour it 
through a strainer to remove hops and solids from the boil.  It takes a 
while and makes a mess.  Last night I added a step or two.  I wanted to 
use my new aerating wand (fashioned from an old racking cane that didn't 
survive an earlier *learning experience*, per the recent thread) so I 
tried to whirlpool the wort, let it sit, then siphon into the fermenter.

I must be doing something wrong because the solids did not settle into the 
center of the pot in a conical pile.  Basically all the hops came through 
the cane, I still had a mess and no better aeration.  Suggestions and 
advice would be appreciated.  Private E-mail is fine.  Sorry if this has 
been addressed already.

john.boshier at telops.gte.com

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Date: Mon, 22 Jan 1996 20:07:33 -0800
From: Mark Riley <mriley at netcom.com>
Subject: PolyClar

Hello All,

Being a new subscriber, I no doubt am bringing up a topic that has
already been hashed out on this forum.  However, I have been
unsuccessful in finding any info regarding PolyClar on the Web.

So... A couple questions?

1. What is the best way of sanitizing the PolyClar before adding
   it to the beer?  Would boiling the stuff ruin it (seeing as how
   it is plastic and plastic and heat don't always mix well)?
 
2. Does it make sense to use PolyClar in the beer and also use
   Irish Moss in the boil?  Is this an overkill?

3. Also, somewhere I heard mention that for the first few days you
   might want to stir the beer (gently) to get the PolyClar back into
   suspension and allow it to do a more effective job - sound
   reasonable?

Thanks for any help and/or tips on this topic!

- ---------------------
  Mark Riley
  Sacramento, CA
  mriley at netcom.com
- ---------------------


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Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 02:39:55 -0500
From: JDPils at aol.com
Subject: Munich Malt and Pilsener Urquell Yeast


1) Bob McCowan mentions on 1/22 he is using one of the Pilsner Urquell Yeast
strains.  Are these available commercially?  If so by what name and where?

2) I really enjoy the flavor of Munich malt and have heard mixed reviews of
using excessive amounts as the final brew will have an extremely high
terminal gravity and be too sweet.  If this is true why are there so many
recipes available which use 50 - 100% munich malt?  I would like to brew a
Dunkel, Bock or, Maerzen using a high percentage of Munich Malt if I can
acheive a reasonably low, say 1.016 - 1.020 terminal gravity.  If someone in
the collective has any suggestions as to a recipe and in particular a mash
procedure, I would be most grateful.  (Private E-Mail is fine )

                        Jim Dunlap
                        Woodinville, Washington    

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Date: Tue, 23 Jan 96 18:55:40 EDT
From: Aidan "Hairy Hibernian" Heerdegen <aidan at rschp2.anu.edu.au>
Subject: Sparge Water Temps
Full-Name: Aidan "Hairy Hibernian" Heerdegen

Al wrote:

| Aidan writes:
|
| > ..  that your sparge water can be ALOT hotter than 168, but 
| > that dosen't mean your *grain bed* will be ..  
| 
| Yes, and you will also recall that I pointed out that Jack's beer
| had a slight haze, which may have been starch haze.

*snip*

| On the other hand, whey you and Jack are measuring your grain bed 
| temperatures, are you doing so in the very top 1/2-inch of the bed?  
| Perhaps you did?  

>From memory ..  *strain* ..  we measured the temp pretty close to 
the top, prolly only as shallow as an inch (going by what I 
understand that to be) and at that depth the grain bed was not 
over 74 degC.  

| Sure, I'll bet that the middle of the grain bed is well below 170F, 
| but all it takes to extract some unconverted starch is to heat the 
| top 1/2-inch to 180F, no?
| 
| I'm just speculating here for the sake of discussion.  What do you
| think?

I think I'll measure more carefully this time, but seeing as my 
grain bed is approximately a foot to a foot and a quarter ..  
that means that the first half inch is only one twentyfourth to 
one thirtieth of the mass of the mash ..  and that is assuming 
uniform mash density (I'd like to beat it is more compacted on 
the bottom).  

I have no idea if this is a significant enough volume to throw a 
chill haze in your beer.

Another thing: how does the solubility of the wort sugars vary 
with temp?  Is it a drastic fall off in solubility?  Are the 
heavier sugars less or more soluble at these typical temps?  

Hey this is interesting!

:)

Cheers

Aidan 'whose brain hurts from using all those antique units!'

- --
aidan at rschp2.anu.edu.au,
http://rschp2.anu.edu.au:8080/aidan

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Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 06:34:13 -0500
From: Mark Peacock <mpeacock at oeonline.com>
Subject: Traverse Brewing Academy

I looking for some opinions about the Traverse Brewing Academy program =
on 22-23 March in Traverse City, Michigan.  I received the flyer earlier =
this month (from what appears to be the AHA mailing list) and am =
thinking about attending.

The program includes a "people's choice" competition, seminars and the =
requisite beer meals:  breakfast(!), lunch and dinner.  Friday night is =
a reception and the beer contest.  Saturday has 5 sets of break-out =
sessions -- each break-out session has 4 seminar options.  Instructors =
include Dan McConnell and Larry Bell.

I'm sure some other folks have seen this and am wondering if anyone else =
is thinking about going?

Regards,
Mark Peacock
Birmingham, MI
mpeacock at oeonline.com

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Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 08:25:48 -0500 (EST)
From: Tim Laatsch <LAATSCH at kbs.msu.edu>
Subject: Yeast Harvest w/ Open Fermentation

Hello All,

I'm pleased to see the open fermentation thread alive and well.
Just wanted to share some observations from my new open fermentation 
experience.  Dan McConnell asked if I top-cropped the yeast---no, but I did 
harvest the settled yeast from primary after racking to keg.  One distinct 
advantage of open fermentation appears to be the cleanliness of the yeast 
harvested from primary for repitching.  By skimming the krauesen, any trub 
that made it to the primary is removed and therefore absent from the harvested 
yeastcake.  The yeast that I harvested over the weekend was an order of 
magnitude cleaner than any of my previous efforts.  However, I felt that 
pseudo-aseptic transfer was a little more difficult, given the large open area 
of the primary.  

The beer tasted better when kegged directly from primary than its sister 
batch, which was fermented closed and kegged after a *secondary* 
fermentation---the flavor of the open-fermented beer was more mature for its 
young age (6 days vs. 3 weeks), less rough, and smoother.  The skimming of 
krauesen material seems to have eliminated much of the sharpness associated 
with young beer.  Perhaps the intangible flavor improvement imparted by open 
fermentation is actually the *absence* of certain undesirable flavors.  
Anyone more experienced care to speculate further?

Please bear in mind that the above observations are from a small statistical 
sample (n=1).  More later on the finished product....

Tim

************************************************************************
| Timothy P. Laatsch        |           laatsch at kbs.msu.edu             |
| Microbial Ecology Grad    |   Head Brewer, Spruce Grove Nanobrewery   |
| Michigan State Univ/KBS   | Check out my homebrewing page on the Web! |
| Kalamazoo, MI             | http://kbs.msu.edu/~laatsch/beerhome.html |
*************************************************************************

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Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 07:27:49 -0600
From: "John Lifer, Jr." <jliferjr at felix.TECLink.Net>
Subject: 

Ronald Wrote,
>So I guess if it held LME at room temperature it can hold LME at boiling
>temperature.  After all, one man's room temperature may be another man's
>boiling temperature depending on location.

HDPE not very good for temperatures in the boiling range.  You seem to be
using a thick walled container.  This will support a higher temperature than
if it was a thinner.  Just because it held LME at room temperaturem does not
mean it will work at elevated tempertures. You have not had a melt down yet,
hopefully you won't.  I would brew outside with it if I were you to be on
the safe side.  My SI, would not be very appreciative of several gallons of
boiling sticky liquid on the kitchen floor.  

For anyone else listening, just make sure that the heated part of the
element you might use is as far inside, away from the walls of the container
you can get, Obviously the element works at a higher temp. that boiling and
be sure to give it a try b/f useing wort.  Straight water is much cheaper.
John in Mississippi


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Date:          Tue, 23 Jan 1996 14:11:33 +0200
From: "DAVID LEWIS" <LEWIS at hali.edv.agrar.tu-muenchen.de>
Subject:       Blow-off and skimming during ferment

We skimmed the primary fermenters only once, and then just before the 
green beer was "schlaucht" down to the lager keller.  The reason I 
was told by the journeymen was that the crust and foam that forms 
during the kraeusen is important for protecting the beer from 
infection.  It is equally important that it be removed before 
racking, to get rid of the bitterness (as mentioned by others).

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Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 09:22:17 -0500 (EST)
From: Jim Busch <busch at eosdev2.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Pumps

A brewing collegue of mine has a need for a utility pump to CIP
his unitank.  The pump needs to handle NaOH, caustics, at ~160F
and pump 6 feet of head.  The GPM is not important but I would
venture that 1-20 GPM would be adequate.  Any affordable (100-200
bucks) ideas?

Ive seen a unit in an old Grainger catelog that I think is made
by Little Giant.  It is rated at 1/25 HP, and pumps 7.1 GPM at
6 feet head.  Anyone use one of these?

Thanks,
Jim Busch
Colesville, Md
busch at daacdev1.stx.com

 
                     A Victory For Your Taste!
                      Festbier, Lager and IPA


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Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 09:23:01 -0500
From: genitom at nyslgti.gen.ny.us (Michael A. Genito)
Subject: RE:Brewing w/Maple Sap 

In HBD1942 Tim wrote:
***
From: brokenskull at earthlink.net (Tim & Marilyn)
Subject: Brewing with maple sap
Has anybody brewed with sap?  I am going to try it this year. However. i'm
not quite sure how to figure out how much the sugers in the sap will effect
the alcohol content.  Any help appreciated.
tim.....brokenskull at earthlink.net
***
Tim, I haven't tried brewing with sap, but I have with maple syrup (pure
syrup - not Log Cabin(TM)). Using 2qts of the stuff in an otherwise porter
style extract brew produced a nice hint of the maple flavor, but lended the
brew to have a bit of a winey taste. Papazian's TCJOHB addresses maple syrup
and recommends a large quantity (>1gal). It just wasn't to my particular
liking, but then again I've brewed crystal honey lagers and porters and
wasn't crazy about them either although many of my friends were.

Addressing the quantity of sap issue you raised, remember that it takes
approximately 40 gals of sap to boil down to 1 gal maple syrup. I would
think there wouldn't be enough fermentables or flavor in raw sap to produce
an effective brew.



Michael A. Genito, Director of Finance, Town of Ramapo
237 Route 59, Suffern, NY 10901
TEL:  914-357-5100 x214   FAX: 914-357-7209


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Date: 23 Jan 96 09:43:24 EST
From: aesoph%ncemt.ctc.com at ctcga.ctc.com (Aesoph, Michael)
Subject: Bad Alcohol

Dear Collective:



     A freind of mine mentioned that the addition of certain substances 
to any fermenting beverage could produce Methyl alcohol.  If I recall 
correctly, this is the poisonous variety.  He specifically mentioned 
potatoes, other vegetables and certain grains.  Is this true, or is he 
full of nonsense?  I always assumed that the homebrewer was perfectly 
safe under all circumstances...  Sorry if this is in the FAQ somewhere, I 
simply don't have it.



                                   Mike Aesoph


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Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 16:49:58 +0100
From: sames at is.co.za (SAMES)
Subject: Help needed on building masher/boiler.

Hi there !

I need some positive criticism :-) on a boiler - masher that I want to build.
I have not brewed a full-grain beer only mash-extract.
I want to build a boiler and masher in one. 
What I thought I would do is to use a +-10 gallon plastic bin that can
withstand the heat and put a big kettle element inside. I am an electronic
engineer so I will build myself an accurate temperature controller with
which I will control the mashing and boiling.
With the controller I would be able to (for an example) keep the mash at 
60deg Celcius for 29 minutes and then at 70 for 20 minutes etc etc. 
I will be able to set the controller everytime like I want it for mashing.
For boiling I would just throw the wort in and boil the sweet stuff for as 
long as needed.

sketch:    |      |
           |      |
           |    --|   <-- element
           |      |
           --------

Is this a bad idea ? Are there anyone who have done this before?
Please give me some advice, any suggestions or criticism are welcome.
If there is any info on the internet regarding building this kind 
of masher please point me to it.
Thanks a lot.

Braam Greyling
Design/CAD engineer


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Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 06:50:20 -0800 (PST)
From: Michael Arau <marau at linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us>
Subject: Gas (fwd)



- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 06:42:25 -0800 (PST)
From: Michael Arau <marau at linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us>
To: Automagical Mail Responder <homebrew-request@ hpfcmgw.fc.hp.com>
Cc: rhampo at ford.com
Subject: Gas

RH> Has anyone out there in HBD land discovered a cure/preventative for
RH> the personal emission of methane that seems to always accompany
RH> (with a time lag) drinking homebrew?  

Not so sure why you experience this phenomenon with homebrew moreso than
with commercial beer, but the simple truth is that the gas you are
emitting is carbon dioxide.  Contrary to popular belief, it is not all
burped out.  |)
 
 



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Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 08:55:07 -0600
From: rich.adam at mayo.edu (Adam Rich)
Subject: Possible Infection

HBD Readers:
        I have a probkem with ageing beer and I would like some opinions
from the collective.  The problem is that my beer gets more carbonated with
time in the bottles.  Sure, it should for the first two weeks but this
happens after 6-8 weeks and is undesireable.  No, it does not gush or foam.
It is just that the head growes larger when pouring and the bubbles are
sharp, as opposed to a nice creamy, smooth beer that I prefer.
        I prime 5 gallon batches with 1/2 cup corn sugar and bottle in
Grolsch style bottles (some 22 ounce Fischer Bottles).  I now use iodophor
solution to sanatize the bottles, and use a bottle brush routinely.  The
rubber gaskets are all taken off and put into boiling water for 2 minutes.
I try to sanatize everything that comes into contact with the beer with
iodophor, but I do rinse with cold tapwater (even though 'they' say this is
not neccesary).  I use starters, always.  I do propagate yeast but only 1-4
passes because I am definitely afraid of contamination problems!  I am a
partial-mash brewer.  I buy extract in 30 pound buckets and I wonder if this
could be the culprit? 
        A couple of caveats here.  I think this may be a wild-yeast problem.
I bake bread every weekend in the same kitchen that I make beer in.
However, I quit doing it on the same day!  Now I try to clean the countertop
with bleach, and I shower before brewing!  I also sweep the floor and mop
before brewing.  All of this is an attempt to reduce opportunity for wild
yeast contamination.  
        What is you opinion on the 'problem'?  The solution?  It seems that
I need to polish off each batch in under 6 weeks or else!
thanks,
Adam Rich
richa at mayo.edu


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Date: Tue, 23 Jan 96 07:00:51 PST
From: hollen at vigra.com
Subject: America's Finest City Homebrew Competition


Dear Brewers:

Thank you for your interest in the third annual Americas Finest City
Homebrew Contest.  Last year we received about 300 entries and we
expect at least as many this year.  In past years we have been able to
attract a list of impressive beer judges and we hope to carry on that
tradition.  AleSmith Brewing Co. will be the sight of the judging
again this year.  Last year it was an empty warehouse; this year it is
a fully operational microbrewery.

The following are this year's vital facts:

1.	Judging will take place on Saturday 3/2/96.
2.	Entry fee = $6.00 for the first + $4.00 for subsequent entries.
3.	1996 AHA National Competition guidelines will be used for any and
	all beverage styles (see Zymurgy winter 1995 issue or contact us).
4.	1996 AHA National Competition recipe and entry forms may be 
	used (Winter '95 Zymurgy).
5.	Make checks payable to John Bell and include w/ entries.
6.	Ship 2 (two) bottles per entry (1st round plus best of show).
7.	Indicate by arrow which side is up, so we can store the boxes properly.
8.	Ship entries to:	AFC
				c/o AleSmith Brewing Co.
				9368 Cabot Dr.
				San Diego, CA 92126
9.	Entries will be accepted from Wed. 2/21/96 through Wed. 2/28/96.

Entries shipped directly to AleSmith will be placed directly in their
walk-in cooler.  In past years, many of the San Diego county home brew
supply shops have been generous to accept "walk-in" entries, which we
collect in bulk after the entry window closes.  Check with your local
(San Diego county only) homebrew supply store, if you prefer this
method.

Note: Minimum scores for awards are as follows: 35 pts. for 1st place,
30 for 2nd, and 25 for 3rd.

Note: The guidelines state that you may enter only one beverage per
category.  If you enter more than one, your entries will be accepted
and judged, but each entrant will receive only one award per category.

Note: Due to limited space and concentration level required by the
judges, the judging will not be open to spectators or competing
brewers.

Good Luck,

Skip Virgilio
Contest Organizer (619)549-9888 wk, 566-7061 hm

Dion Hollenbeck
Assistant Organizer (619)597-7080*164 wk, 459-8724 hm
hollen at vigra.com

Bob Whritner
Judge Coordinator (619)534-3785 wk, 458-9840 hm
whbob at arcane2.ucsd.edu 
	  

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Date: Tue, 23 Jan 96 10:28:40 EST
From: John DeCarlo <jdecarlo at mitre.org>
Subject: Diacetyl

If you want to know about diacetyl, you can look for powdered butter, like 
Butter Buds (TM).  Lots of butter-flavored foods (like microwave popcorn) 
are flavored with diacetyl.

People describe it differently, from butter to butterscotch.  And at very 
low levels, it does add a nice smoothness.

I was at the Coddington brewpub just north of Newport RI last fall.  The IPA
batch I tasted had the most diacetyl I had ever had the misfortune to 
consume in any beer.  Presumably that was some sort of anomaly, but maybe 
you could ask the brewmaster what happened and how you could do it. 

The advantage of using powdered butter (or butter substitute or whatever it 
is called) is that you can measure out different amounts to add to beer. 
You can do it in your glass as an experiment.

Hope this helps.

John DeCarlo, MITRE Corporation, McLean, VA--My views are my own
Fidonet:  1:109/131  Internet:  jdecarlo at mitre.org


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Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 10:27:54 -0500
From: NATEDA at aol.com
Subject: lab equip source

To Randy Reed

A good source for lab equipment, etc. is VWR Scientific 1-800-932-5000.

They distribute out of NJ and have no local (Beantown) outlet.

They have a mega catalogue but can be a bit pricey.

Nate Apkon (nateda at aol.com)
(Framingham)

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Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 10:40:48 -0500
From: KennyEddy at aol.com
Subject: Cold Fermentation Cure -- Stupid Copper Manifold Tricks

Russ Snyder sez:

> Since I don't have a clever way of keeping the carboy at the required temp.
> and cranking the heat up in the house is not an option (house is empty
> during the day and can't justify heating it for the beer alone), I was
> wondering:

Try a heating pad set on LOW under the fermenter (stick one of those
"Fermometer" strip thermometers on your fermenter to keep an eye on things).
 If the low setting is too warm, place a towel between the pad and fermenter,
lift the fermenter slightly using a sturdy wire rack or other suitable
implement (careful -- 5 gallons of wort wighs 40+ pounds, nevre mind the
container) or use a cheapie light dimmer to throttle the pad.

And Pat Maloney suggests:

> Don't bother soldering the fittings at all.  Just slip the straight pieces
> into the elbows at brew time and put the thing into your cooler.  This
> assumes, of course, that the manifold is big enough to sit next to the
walls
> of your cooler and therefore can't be forced apart once it's installed.

Press-fitting works well, and the above caveat is valid considering you have
a mess if your spoon accidently scoops up the manifold and disassembles it in
place for you.  What I do (I use a square Coleman Drinking Water 5)is to lay
a sheet of nylon needlepoint mesh (8 holes per inch), cut to size, over the
manifold.  Not only does it shield the manifold from the onslaught of the
mighty spoon, but it acts to a degree as a "false bottom", increasing the
drainage area cross-section and (hopefully) improving yield (although the
weight of the grain and the heat of the mash deforms the mesh, it still tends
to "drape" over the pipe rather than wrapping tightly around it; I'd guess
you get a 2"-wide band of false bottom along all pipe sections).  Costs about
half a buck a square foot at the local crafts store and I believe you can get
it on a roll if you want a bunch of it.

Ken Schwartz
KennyEddy at aol.com


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Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 10:40:53 -0500
From: KennyEddy at aol.com
Subject: Plastic Electric Brewery

Ronald LaBorde suggests electric brewing with plastic buckets, and DonBrew
offers temperature compatibility information about various plastics.  I
thought this sounded like a great thing to pursue; I'm space-limited as far
as trying to rig up a keg-based three-tier system (here in El Paso, attics
and basements are purely fictional fairy tales and the garage must actually
hold a vehicle and the usual suburban junk).

I began to think that a three-tier *five-gallon* electric system might be a
great way to get a "real" brewery into my garage (and no CO detector
required) for a modest investment.  My idea was to biuld two plywood boxes,
one sized to fit inside the other for storage, and use them along with the
floor for the three levels.  The hot liquor tank and the boiler would use
heating elements, and the mash tun would be a non-heated cooler or
insulated-bucket infusion masher thingy.  If I'm clever, everything would
nest & store inside the largest box (which would have the requisite casters)
and tuck away in the corner of the garage.

Anyhow, the concern of "scorching" has always come up when electric elements
are considered.  But scorching is a function not of the total *power* per se
but of the *power density* of the heat source; in other words, how much heat
*per square inch* is generated.  High power density implies excessive heat
concentration, which will lead to scorching at some level.  The trick is to
determine the power density that is scorch-free and design around that.

I did some calculations (look out -- an electronics guy doing thermo design
is a frightening thing to behold) and figured that my 20-qt stockpot setup on
my stovetop experiences a power density of about 50 watts per square inch.
 Estimating the power density based on a 100,000 BTU/hr cooker tranferring
half of that heat to a 15" diameter keg bottom, I figure about 83 watts per
square inch.  These scenarios are scorch-free, so the range of 50 to 83 watts
per square inch should be a valid ballpark figure.

Obviously scorching plain old strike water or sparge water is not a concern;
a single element with an on-off switch is probably adequate (as long as you
monitor the water temperature).

So for scorch-free wort boiling the trick is to figure the power generated by
your element (Ronald is using a 10" 4500W element) and divide by the surface
area of the element wire.  In Ronald's case the element is perhaps 22" in
length (10" out, 10" back, maybe 2" for the bend) and 1/4" diameter = about
17 square inches; power density is therefore 167 watts per square inch!  He
claims scorching is not a problem; but control of the overall heat is a goal,
suggesting that a lower power level is desirable.  This "need" for less power
fits in with the 50-83 w/sq-in range I came up with earlier.  He proposes a
controller based on a light dimmer and a solid-state relay, which would take
some rigging but is basically a sound concept.  If you're relatively handy
with a soldering iron, a more elegant and perhaps less expensive design could
be implemented (I guess I'll work on that too).

A much simpler approach might be to make any of a number of parallel and
series combinations of *many* elements (they're fairly cheap) with simple
switches across them.  Throwing the switches in various combinations would
generate different power levels.  High heat to initiate boiling, lower heat
to maintain it, that sort of thing.  Also, reducing the overall power while
"spreading out" the power distribution results in lower power densities and
diminished worrying about scorching.  While not continuously variable like a
light dimmer would be, it would at least offer three or four levels and might
be completely adequate.

A 10-gallon system based on this concept would be a small step although
slower heating and higher power draw would be considerations.

The compatibility of the various plastics with boiling temperatures is a
concern and if anyone has information in addition to DonBrew's figures I'd be
interested to hear about it.  Also, whether "plastic taste" might somehow be
imparted by using plastic for boiling wuold be a question.  A lightly-hopped
pale-malt-only brew (or malt & rice) would be a good test batch to look for
off-flavors and excessive caramelization.  Boiling plain water a few times in
the buckets might be enough to pull out all the volatiles. 

I am presently working through the design of this "brewery" and will gladly
post the plans for a working version once I have it running.  Any suggestions
would be welcome; private E-mail is OK.

Ken Schwartz
KennyEddy at aol.com


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Date:         Tue, 23 Jan 96 09:41:01 CST
From: Paul Sovcik <U18183 at UICVM.CC.UIC.EDU>
Subject:      Why Aerate if you pitch heavily?

   One thing I'm trying to understand about yeast metabolism, aeration etc...

Given that oxygen is important to form sterols in cell membranes, and
good oxygenation is important in developing adequate healthy yeast populations,
why aerate at all if you pitch an adequate amount of yeast?

  I would consider an adequate amount of yeast to be the dregs of the
previous batch - realistically, 90% of the yeast that has been used to
ferment the beer is probably precipiatated out, and ready to ferment again.

Why aerate a population like this?  They should have more than enough sterols
in their cell walls assuming the previous batch was aerated enough, and
further aeration could only make the batch overpopulated (overpitched), or
cause oxidation.  Right?    Am I missing something here?

 -Paul in Chicago

FWIW - I really never worried too much about aeration.  I may slosh and spray
the wort a bit more deliberately when racking to a primary, or shake the
carboy (which I rarely use anymore for a primary) for a minute or two, but
thats it.  The one rule that guides my brewing these days is "Pitch a huge
slug of quality yeast and dont sweat the little stuff".  Works for me.
 -PS

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Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 08:29:32 -0700
From: Jim Doyle <jgdoyle at uci.edu>
Subject: Heavy Duty Crown Cappers

I recently saw what I would consider the "King of Crown Cappers".  It was a
free standing table unit made of heavy duty polished steel stock.  I was
unable to touch it, or get close enough to read any company name which may
have been written upon it.  I want one.

I need one which will not fall over, possibly it will mount to a table? Can
anybody help me identify this oh-so-heavy-duty crown capper?  Tell me about
the heaviest duty cappers out there, and where I can obtain them.  It
doesn't matter where they are, I can wait for mail order.

TIA
        	--
Jim Doyle


 "640K ought to be enough for anybody."
       -- Bill Gates, 1981


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Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 12:10:31 -0500
From: Bob McCowan <bob.mccowan at cfrp.varian.com>
Subject: Re:Hydrometer Adjustment, When to pitch yeast,Skimming

Of course the hydrometer reading is independent of altitude, but for the
experimentalists here's an easy test:  measure water.  At least you'll know
whether the scale is glued to the right spot.

**********

As fas as when to pitch yeast, I'd guess that you're better late than early.
Given that, start the starter well in advance.  If your brew day is delayed,
use that as an opportunity to build the starter up some more instead of
worrying about your starter going dormant. The liklihood that you'll pitch
too much yeast is pretty slim. Just look at what the microbrewers pitch -
somewhere around a pound of yeast solids per barrel.

If you're really worried about your yeast being active, add the first cooled
wort out of your chiller to your somewhat dormant starter and let that get
started while you finish your chilling.  Let your wort settle and rack the
wort off the cold break into a second fermenter.  By then your yeast should
be going again - in the exact same wort they're going to see.  Pitch 'em;
they should be quite pleased.

**
Skimming - I suppose you could do that, but probably most of the intensely
bitter stuff  is insoluble and is left behind when you rack out of your primary.
Some of it, maybe most sticks to the sloped neck of the carboy provided the
volume is right. 

I haven't noticed differences between blowoff and nonblowoff brews.  For me
any such effect is lost in the noise; maybe my palette isn't sufficiently
fine tuned.

Bob

- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bob McCowan                            
                                      voice:  (508)-922-6000 x208
ATG/Receiver-Protector                fax:    (508)-922-8914
CPI BMD
Formerly Varian CF&RPP                e-mail: bob.mccowan at cfrp.varian.com
Beverly, MA  01915

- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------


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Date: Tue, 23 Jan 96 09:25:24 PST
From: stafford at alcor.hac.com (Jack Stafford)
Subject: Unexpected high gravity reading

Yeasterday I brewed the "Sun Has Left Us On Time" Steam Beer
from the NCJOHB recipes.  I got an OG of 1.102 at 74 deg F.

I think there is an error in this recipe:
1/2 lb Crystal malt (40L)
  8 lb Alexander's pale malt extract (two 4lb cans)
  2 oz N.Brewer hops (7.8 AA)
1/2 oz Cascade hops (5.8 AA)
1-2 pk Lager yeast (Yeast Lab Euro. Lager)

I followed the recipe to the letter expecting to get an
OG reading in the 1.045 range, as published in the book.

Next time I'll use only 4lb Alexander's malt extract and
see what kind of reading I get.  I think 1.102 is a little
too high.  Anyone else ever make this beer?  Any advice?


Jack  stafford at alcor.hac.com
Costa Mesa, CA



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Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 12:25:46 GMT
From: Chris Storey <cstorey at mail.peterboro.net>
Subject: Doctor's opinion on Homebrew

My wife works at a hospital as a medical secretary. I don't know how the
subject came up about homebrewing, but this doctor of internal medicine said
this to her. He asked my wife if I drank my beer before a month old. She
said yes. I do. I try it at different stages to see how it is doing. I think
everyone does this. He said that it can be poisonous. I can't believe it!
Something about the yeast and alcohol at early stages. I really don't think
so, but I thought I would ask the collective to see if anyone out there
knows of people DYING to try their beer early. Maybe he thought I was making
moonshine! Any comments on this?

Chris Storey
cstorey at mail.peterboro.net
Peterborough, Ont.Can.


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