HOMEBREW Digest #1945 Fri 26 January 1996

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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  Re:   Rye Beer (Keith Frank)
  Add me to your mail list (Eddie Snipes)
  gas (Andy Walsh)
  Dr. Baloney (Dan McConnell)
  Another Question about Soldering CU (Karel Chaloupka)
  Unexpected High Gravity (Barry M Wertheimer)
  Electric Brewery (Matt_K)
  RE: Help needed on building masher/boiler. (SAMES)
  Stealhead ale yeast (PatrickM50)
  Re: Unexpected high gravity reading (Douglas O'Brien)
  stirrers, siphoning,heat (Charles Wettergreen)
  Poisons (Pierre Jelenc)
  Re: high worts and foolish medicos (Jeff Frane)
  Steeping grains (Steve Armbrust)
  CO2 Corney Keg Leak (Bob Knetl)
  when to pitch ("Tracy Aquilla")
  The batch from hell... (Michael A Yehle)
  rock candy (Roel ten Klei)
  aeration/new brewers (Nigel Townsend)
  why aerate?, "second opinion" ("Tracy Aquilla")
  Lager yeast with Ale recipe? (Russ Snyder) (J.D. Baldwin)
   (Michael A. Genito)
  Re: Unexpected high gravity reading (Jack Stafford)
  Urban Legends of Homebrewing (John W. Braue, III)
  Belgian White (Steve Comella)
  Growing Hops (dludwig)

****************************************************************** * POLICY NOTE: Due to the incredible volume of bouncing mail, * I am going to have to start removing addresses from the list * that cause ongoing problems. In particular, if your mailbox * is full or your account over quota, and this results in bounced * mail, your address will be removed from the list after a few days. * * If you use a 'vacation' program, please be sure that it only * sends a automated reply to homebrew-request *once*. If I get * more than one, then I'll delete your address from the list. ****************************************************************** ################################################################# # # YET ANOTHER NEW FEDERAL REGULATION: if you are UNSUBSCRIBING from the # digest, please make sure you send your request to the same service # provider that you sent your subscription request!!! I am now receiving # many unsubscribe requests that do not match any address on my mailing # list, and effective immediately I will be silently deleting such # requests. # ################################################################# NOTE NEW HOMEBREW ADDRESS hpfcmgw! Send articles for __publication_only__ to homebrew at hpfcmgw.fc.hp.com (Articles are published in the order they are received.) Send UNSUBSCRIBE and all other requests, ie, address change, etc., to homebrew-request@ hpfcmgw.fc.hp.com, BUT PLEASE NOTE that if you subscribed via the BITNET listserver (BEER-L at UA1VM.UA.EDU), then you MUST unsubscribe the same way! If your account is being deleted, please be courteous and unsubscribe first. Please don't send me requests for back issues - you will be silently ignored. For "Cat's Meow" information, send mail to lutzen at alpha.rollanet.org ARCHIVES: An archive of previous issues of this digest, as well as other beer related information can be accessed via anonymous ftp at ftp.stanford.edu. Use ftp to log in as anonymous and give your full e-mail address as the password, look under the directory /pub/clubs/homebrew/beer directory. AFS users can find it under /afs/ir.stanford.edu/ftp/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer. If you do not have ftp capability you may access the files via e-mail using the ftpmail service at gatekeeper.dec.com. For information about this service, send an e-mail message to ftpmail at gatekeeper.dec.com with the word "help" (without the quotes) in the body of the message.
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 22:32:30 -0600 From: Keith Frank <kfrank at brazosport.cc.tx.us> Subject: Re: Rye Beer >I'm looking for a rye beer recipe using extract, if that's possible. None= in >SUDS imports. Can anyone help me out? Also looking for your favorite >porter (extract) recipes too. Please email me too. Thanks >Mark Miller, Seattle I can't take credit for this one. One of the brewers in our club (Ray= Plepys) did this, in fact it was his first beer! Turned out pretty good. Note the recipe=20 is for 1.5 gal.=20 "Old Country Rye Ale No. 1"=20 =20 1 lb 6 row malt=20 0.5 lb rye flakes =20 1 lb light malt extract (bulk)=20 0.3 oz Willamette Hops (AA 3.7%)=20 0.3 oz Cascade hops=20 John Bull brewers yeast (8 oz starter with malt extract)=20 =20 Grains mashed out in 2.5 qt LJ water at 150=B0-160=B0F for 1.5 hrs. After= sparging, extract was added and the wort was diluted to 6 qts. Willamette hops were= =20 added, and boiled for 30 min. Added 3 qts. water and Cascade hops and= boiled=20 10 min. Cooled and pitched yeast starter. =20 Fermented 2 weeks in the primary (70=B0-75=B0 F) and 2 weeks in the= secondary=20 (70=B0-75=B0F). Primed with 1 oz corn sugar and bottled. O.G. 1.060, F.G.= 1.010=20 Keith Frank Lake Jackson, TX kfrank at brazosport.cc.tx.us "They that drink beer will think beer" - Washington Irving Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 23:38:20 -0500 From: esnipes at mindspring.com (Eddie Snipes) Subject: Add me to your mail list Please add me to your mailing list, Thanks, Eddie esnipes at mindspring.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 21:29:26 +1100 (EST) From: awalsh at crl.com.au (Andy Walsh) Subject: gas Michael Arau sez: >the simple truth is that the gas you are >emitting is carbon dioxide. I for one have seen somebody set fire to a fart, and believe me, it was impressive! I guess there is a fair bit of methane there. This brings to mind "the dangers of propane" thread. (remember all the leaking propane from gas bottles collecting into a pool which gets ignited by the unsuspecting brewer?). I guess the only thing that saves us as a species is that methane is lighter than air... Andy. ************************************************************* Andy Walsh from Sydney email: awalsh at world.net (or awalsh at crl.com.au if you prefer) I still don't know what a Wohlgemuth unit is. ************************************************************* Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 06:34:42 -0500 From: danmcc at umich.edu (Dan McConnell) Subject: Dr. Baloney From: Chris Storey <cstorey at mail.peterboro.net> >My wife works at a hospital as a medical secretary. I don't know how the >subject came up about homebrewing, but this doctor of internal medicine said >this to her. He asked my wife if I drank my beer before a month old. She >said yes. I do. I try it at different stages to see how it is doing. I think >>everyone does this. He said that it can be poisonous. I can't believe it! >Something about the yeast and alcohol at early stages. I really don't think >so, but I thought I would ask the collective to see if anyone out there >knows of people DYING to try their beer early. Maybe he thought I was making >moonshine! Any comments on this? Baloney at best-I can think of a few far more descriptive comments. He knows nothing about beer. I think this is a clear example of someone presenting uneducated, false opinion as fact. Rather dangerous when you are a Physician, I'd say. DanMcC Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 07:21:34 -0600 From: Karel Chaloupka <kchaloup at coyote.lsis.loral.com> Subject: Another Question about Soldering CU I know another question about soldering copper. I am currently working on a RIMs system. My temperature sensor will be digital and will be epoxyed in a 1/4" OD piece of copper tubing which will be mounted and soldered perpendicular through a 1/2" OD piece of rigid copper tubing. What I would like to know is; What is a safe cleaning procedure to remove the flux from the soldering and any machine oil which might accumulated inside the tubing? at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at Who ever named it near beer was a poor judge of distance. Mark Twain at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at Karel Chaloupka Loral Space Information Systems Hardware Development Section 1322 Space Park Drive Houston, TX (713)335-6798 EMAIL: KCHALOUP at coyote.lsis.loral.com FELIX at ghgcorp.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 08:45:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Barry M Wertheimer <wertheim at UTKVX.UTCC.UTK.EDU> Subject: Unexpected High Gravity Jack Stafford wrote about his unexpected high gravity (1.102) when brewing the Sun has Left us on Time recipe. The fermentables in this recipe consisted of 8 lbs. of Alexander's Pale Extract and 1/2 lb. of crystal malt. I have not brewed this recipe, but it would be impossible to have a final gravity this high with these ingredients, assuming a 5 gallon batch. I have used Alex. Pale Extract, and find that it delivers about 33 points per pound. Even assuming 35 points, and throwing in a little something for the crystal, you would be under 1.060. At an unheard of 45 points per pound, you are still nowhere near 1.102. There must be some other explanation. Try your hydrometer in H2O and see what it reads. Barry Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 09:23:04 est From: Matt_K at ceo.sts-systems.ca Subject: Electric Brewery The thread about electric brewing is great. With all this talk about designing/building fancy controllers for hot water heater elements, I wanted to re-state something which was mentioned a few days ago but seems to have been forgotten. Controllers for stove top elements work just as well for hot water emelents. They are cheap (<$20), readily available at Hoem Depot etc. (or off old stoves) and easy to install. Just make sure that the amps drawn by the element aren't too high. The controllers I found were rated to 20 amps at 220V, so they should be good up to 4400W. I have been using one on my keg for the last 1.5 years and it works great. Matt in Montreal Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 16:45:24 +0100 From: sames at is.co.za (SAMES) Subject: RE: Help needed on building masher/boiler. I posted a question about a masher/boiler in one. A kettle element would be inside the container. Various people send me a reply and almost all of them said I could boil in it easily but to mash in it would be bad. The grain that is near the element will get burnt. Thanks very much to everybody who replied, This digest works very good ! Chow Braam Greyling Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 09:59:10 -0500 From: PatrickM50 at aol.com Subject: Stealhead ale yeast Greetings! I'm making a starter from the yeast in a bottle of Stealhead Pale Ale from the Mad River Brewing Co. in Blue Lake, CA. Anybody have an idea what strain of yeast it is? I'd like to use it this weekend so even wild guesses are welcome! Thanks! Pat Maloney, Sonoma Co. Calif. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 10:17:41 -0500 From: Douglas O'Brien <Douglas.OBrien at ccrs.emr.ca> Subject: Re: Unexpected high gravity reading Jack Stafford wrote, >Yeasterday I brewed the "Sun Has Left Us On Time" Steam Beer >from the NCJOHB recipes. I got an OG of 1.102 at 74 deg F. > >I think there is an error in this recipe: >1/2 lb Crystal malt (40L) > 8 lb Alexander's pale malt extract (two 4lb cans) > 2 oz N.Brewer hops (7.8 AA) >1/2 oz Cascade hops (5.8 AA) >1-2 pk Lager yeast (Yeast Lab Euro. Lager) > >I followed the recipe to the letter expecting to get an >OG reading in the 1.045 range, as published in the book. > >Next time I'll use only 4lb Alexander's malt extract and >see what kind of reading I get. I think 1.102 is a little >too high. Anyone else ever make this beer? Any advice? The 1.102 reading is too high, it is likely caused by some form of measurement error, i.e. improper mixing. From your recipe I would expect a OG of 1.059 for 5 US gallons. 4lb of extract would definately give you a light beer. Considering the number of threads we see on problems with gravity readings I propose the following reasons why NOT to use a hydrometer: - you can't get an accurate starting gravity anyway - if you break it you get bits of glass in your beer - too many adjustments and calculations need - it takes too long to wait for the bubbles to disappear off hydrometer - you always record too high a final gravity - trying to do all that mixing to get an accurate starting gravity is tiring - all this causes worry - hydrometrs are phallic and that's not manly in a male dominated hobby :-) Doug - -- Douglas J. O'Brien Douglas.OBrien at ccrs.NRCan.gc.ca Canada Centre for Remote Sensing tel: (613) 947-1287 588 Booth Street fax: (613) 947-1408 Ottawa, Ontario, Canada K1A 0Y7 Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 96 09:54 CST From: chuckmw at mcs.com (Charles Wettergreen) Subject: stirrers, siphoning,heat To: homebrew at hpfcmgw.fc.hp.com In HBD #1943, John Palmer <palmer at ssdgwy.mdc.com> talked about: L Paint Stirrers: I have seen these at Home Depot - a simple propeller on a L shaft that feels to be plain steel with a yellowish coating on it. These might be nice, but the Cole-Parmer catalog has stainless stirring rods that are designed to produce no aeration. I remember seeing these and thinking that they'd be perfect for a RIMS setup; the rod was well sized (3/8" ?) and the "propellers" (there were several different kinds depending on what you wanted to stir) were bolt-on to the rod. John Boshier <john.boshier at telops.gte.com> had problems siphoning wort off of spent hops: L I must be doing something wrong because the solids did not settle into the L center of the pot in a conical pile. Basically all the hops came through the L cane, I still had a mess and no better aeration. Suggestions and advice would L be appreciated. I find that siphoning with the racking cane inserted inside a nylon grain bag does wonders for separating liquids from hops, fruit pulp, spices, fruit peels, and various other solid and semi-solid ingredients. But the best and easiest method is, by far, to have an installed EasyMasher (TM) in your boil kettle. Russ Snyder had problems maintaining fermenter heat in a cold house. I use the carboy in water-filled trashcan with aquarium heater method. It maintains whatever temperature I dial in on the heater with no problems. Cheers & beers, Chuck * RM 1.3 00946 * Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 96 11:01:34 EST From: Pierre Jelenc <pcj1 at columbia.edu> Subject: Poisons In HOMEBREW Digest #1943 aesoph%ncemt.ctc.com at ctcga.ctc.com (Aesoph, Michael) asks > > A freind of mine mentioned that the addition of certain substances > to any fermenting beverage could produce Methyl alcohol. If I recall > correctly, this is the poisonous variety. He specifically mentioned > potatoes, other vegetables and certain grains. Is this true, or is he > full of nonsense? I always assumed that the homebrewer was perfectly > safe under all circumstances... Sorry if this is in the FAQ somewhere, I > simply don't have it. Fermentation does not produce significant amounts of methanol. However, pectin, which is present in all fruit and much other vegetable matter, does contain methanol, in the form of a methyl ester. This ester can be hydrolyzed during the brewing process to produce free methanol. Some wines contain considerable amounts of methanol, BTW; to the point that they may be banned from distribution. On the other hand, pectin can be hydrolyzed in the gut. Thus, if you can eat it, you can also drink it. Chris Storey <cstorey at mail.peterboro.net> asks > > My wife works at a hospital as a medical secretary. I don't know how the > subject came up about homebrewing, but this doctor of internal medicine said > this to her. He asked my wife if I drank my beer before a month old. She > said yes. I do. I try it at different stages to see how it is doing. I think > everyone does this. He said that it can be poisonous. I can't believe it! > Something about the yeast and alcohol at early stages. I really don't think > so, but I thought I would ask the collective to see if anyone out there > knows of people DYING to try their beer early. Maybe he thought I was making > moonshine! Any comments on this? That's why everybody suddenly died throughout Britain, I suppose? With doctors like this, who needs fairy tales? Pierre Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 09:48:40 -0800 From: jfrane at teleport.com (Jeff Frane) Subject: Re: high worts and foolish medicos Jack Stafford wrote: >Yeasterday I brewed the "Sun Has Left Us On Time" Steam Beer >from the NCJOHB recipes. I got an OG of 1.102 at 74 deg F. > >I think there is an error in this recipe: >1/2 lb Crystal malt (40L) > 8 lb Alexander's pale malt extract (two 4lb cans) > 2 oz N.Brewer hops (7.8 AA) >1/2 oz Cascade hops (5.8 AA) >1-2 pk Lager yeast (Yeast Lab Euro. Lager) > Jack, there's no way you could get five gallons of 1.102 beer from 8 lbs of malt. There has to be an explanation, and it's probably something to do with your measurement process. A common problem is thermal stratification: the wort and water haven't been adequately mixed, and quite possibly your sample was drawn from an area where it was mostly the concentrated wort from your kettle. Agitate the wort thoroughly and check it again. You *did* make 5 gallons, didn't you? Chris Storey wrote: > >My wife works at a hospital as a medical secretary. I don't know how the >subject came up about homebrewing, but this doctor of internal medicine said >this to her. He asked my wife if I drank my beer before a month old. She >said yes. I do. I try it at different stages to see how it is doing. I think >everyone does this. He said that it can be poisonous. I can't believe it! >Something about the yeast and alcohol at early stages. I really don't think >so, but I thought I would ask the collective to see if anyone out there >knows of people DYING to try their beer early. Maybe he thought I was making >moonshine! Any comments on this? > Oh, you'll get comments all right. Either your wife's associate was pulling her leg or he's an idiot. Tell her to ask for citations. I've never met a homebrewer who could wait a week to taste his/her beer, and I often drink mine 10 days after I brew -- in fact, if this guy was right there would be a lot of sick or dead microbrewery customers out there. - --Jeff Frane Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 96 10:57:00 PST From: Steve Armbrust <Steve_Armbrust at ccm.jf.intel.com> Subject: Steeping grains Last week I asked the collective whether anyone had experienced astringency in their extract/specialty-specialty grain batches when they heated the specialty grain mash up to boiling. The consensus, from six respondents, was that temperature does matter. Most said that when they started brewing, they heated their specialty grain water up to boiling and then strained into the brew kettle. But when they stopped boiling (resting between 160 and 170 F), their beer was less astringent and the flavor improved. Thanks to all who responded. I hope I paraphrased your comments accurately. Steve Armbrust Steve_Armbrust at ccm.jf.intel.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 15:26:43 -0500 From: knetlb at smtp-gw.spawar.navy.mil (Bob Knetl) Subject: CO2 Corney Keg Leak I have kegged beer for the last 4 yrs. and a just started experiencing a problem with CO2 leakage. I use previously driven Coke kegs. I have a 3 keg manifold setup and have experienced a leak (you can hear a hiss after the connector is locked in place) between the gas fitting and the keg. It matters not which of the 3 connectors or the keg (I have about 7 kegs) I have never changed the o-rings on the keg connector. Could that be it or the maybe the gas side manifold connectors are the problem. Anyone experience this problem? Bob Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 96 15:41:01 CST From: "Tracy Aquilla" <aquilla at salus.med.uvm.edu> Subject: when to pitch In Digest #1942: danmcc at umich.edu (Dan McConnell) wrote: [snip] >From: Tracy in Vermont <aquilla at salus.med.uvm.edu> >>I think the best time to pitch is when the culture is at >>or near the peak of the log phase (after high kraeusen, >>but before activity slows), > >Theoretical is fine, but if peak of the log phase occurs at 10 AM on a >Wednesday, I'm sorry, but I have commitments until 6PM. Oops, I missed >it! Is my beer ruined? Good point (actually, I wrote this in a later post). Agreed, it usually just isn't practical to pitch at the 'optimal' time and usually, the beer's fine. >I think that it is counter productive to worry too much about theoretical >details when practical details rule our lives. In any case I think, and >agree 100% with Tracy, that the PRIMARY concern is .... > >>What's much more critical is the SIZE of the culture (i.e. >>number of cells). Pitching a 'big enough' starter will help to overcome many >>common problems and it's generally difficult for homebrewers to overpitch. > >Absolutely! The one with the biggest starter wins. > >Now consider this: Breweries that repitch their cultures (all) over many >generations, consequently ALWAYS use yeast that has completed its work. >Since the fermentation is complete, this is certainly WELL past the log >growth phase. This is one of the many reasons homebrewers can make better beer! ;-) Then "Dulisse, Brian" <bbd4 at CIPCOD1.EM.CDC.GOV> wrote: [snip] >it seems to me there's a tradeoff involved here. pitching soon after high >kraeusen seems to imply that you are pitching the entire starter, and if >following the 10:1 "rule", means that you are adding liquid equivalent to 10 >percent of your wort volume by adding the starter. [snip] a more >subjective way of putting the question is does adding the yeast at the >optimal point in the starter cycle offset the addition of the "alien" wort >to the fermenter? Good point! The short answer is, there probably isn't that much difference and I basically pitch what I've got on hand, although I'd opt to wait a while rather than pitch a truly "alien" wort, if I had a choice. This partly depends on the strain you're using. Some of the more floculant strains settle fast enough that one can pitch near HK without including all of the "alien" wort. However, this isn't the case with most strains, so we get back to that issue of practicality. It also depends on what kind of beer you're making. I prefer to pitch a big, active starter when making a very strong beer, and in this case, the starter wort probably won't have a major impact on the flavor of the final product. I generally make my starter wort very similar in composition to the beer I intend to brew, but this isn't always practical either. If I have HK and the yeast hasn't settled yet when I need to pitch it, I add the liquid; if the yeast has settled, I decant and pitch. Centrifugation is another option, but generally isn't practical for homebrewers. What some brewers prefer to do is feed frequently enough to keep the yeast growing, let the yeast settle just prior to brew day, then on brew day, drain the spent wort and add the first of the cold wort directly to the starter culture. Then, while cooling and aerating the rest of the wort, the yeast can adapt and begin growing in the fresh wort. I guess maybe the point of all this discussion is that it's almost never practical to pitch at the 'optimal' time! Fortunately, I don't think it's necessary anyway. >a related question: when we add yeast to a starter, is the size of the >starter the limiting factor determining the "goodness" of the resulting >material pitched into the wort (assuming an appropriate temperature, etc.)? [snip] Another interesting point. I think the size of the starter (number of active cells pitched into the wort) is the most critical parameter, and the more cells you start with, the more you'll have at HK (or after). AND, while we're on this subject, I have something more to add. After emailing my HBD post to Al Korzonas yesterday, he asked me to make a follow-up post clarifying a few points, so here it is. First, I don't want anyone to get the wrong idea; it was certainly not my intention to discredit Al and, in fact, I was very careful not to say "you're WRONG" and "I'm RIGHT". What we have here is a simple difference of opinion; neither one of us is wrong or right. I didn't mean to "discount" the citations Al made, but rather pointed out that there is also a dissenting view (i.e. there is evidence to support BOTH positions) and, based on what I've read (and my own experience), glycogen levels in pitching yeast have little to no impact on the quality of the beer produced, particularly if the yeast is handled properly and optimal pitching rates are achieved. In fact, as I mentioned before, I'm currently reviewing the literature on glycogen metabolism in yeast and so far, it seems that glycogen reserves may not be utilized to any significant extent during most 'typical' brewery fermentations. It also appears that glycogen synthesis commences well before the yeast approaches the stationary phase in batch culture. So in fact, glycogen reserves may not play as important a role in (all or most) brewery fermentations as one might gather from certain experimental results. However, I agree with Al that when possible, it would probably be best to pitch yeast with high glycogen reserves, but this is just very difficult to implement for most homebrewers (it ain't practical!). I must also admit that I haven't been able to obtain the article Al cited as I don't have a source (our library doesn't get many brewing journals). Unfortunately, it's hard to disagree and agree at the same time! Tracy in Vermont aquilla at salus.med.uvm.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 16:26:09 -0500 (EST) From: Michael A Yehle <r3may at dax.cc.uakron.edu> Subject: The batch from hell... While brewing an English Brown lager last month I: 1)Boiled over for 5 minutes while I was, 2)re-tying the cheesecloth hop bags which dumped on the floor 3)burned my fingers while warming water to hydrate yeast (the glass gets hot when on top of the stove???) 4)broke 22 12oz bottles necessitating a trip to the grocery store and drinking a case of ,ick, non-homebrew... 5)bottled two grenades??? Oh well, next weeks wheat should go better.. ****************************************************************** * Once in a while you get shown the light * * in the strangest of places if you look at it right. * * R. Hunter * * * * Mike Y. * * r3may at dax.cc.uakron.edu * ****************************************************************** Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 96 23:45:53 +0100 GMT From: roel at ichthus.lifenet.nl (Roel ten Klei) Subject: rock candy Hallo All! Data for purchasing rock candy. Belgian exporter: Ravico S.A. 64 Rue Tilmont B1090 Bruxelles-Begium tel.32.2.425.13.75 fax.32.2.425.26.01 ask for Mr.Michel Vanderkerken. US importer: Mr.Joel Miller Wilkinson Spitz Ltd., 705 Bronx River Road PO Box 65 East Station Yonkers NY 10704 phone 914.237.5000 faX 914.6931634 Hope you have something about this information ==> Groeten, Roel ten Klei, Veenendaal, The Netherlands ==> internet-adress: roel at ichthus.lifenet.nl ==> : roel.ten.klei at tip.nl ==> \|/ ==> keep the whole at at world singing ==> \------------oOO-(_)-OOo----------/ Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 10:09:17 +1000 From: nigelt at delm.tas.gov.au (Nigel Townsend) Subject: aeration/new brewers I have just come back from xmas leave and found several people have been asking for advice on how to start brewing, also the aeration thread seems to have raised its head again. Hope the following is a useful, if long, monologue. In previous discussions on aeration about 6 months ago somebody suggested using a shower head to fill your fermenter with water. It was suggested that the water passing through the air in multiple fine streams and the 'boiling' motion in the fermenter significantly increased the amounts of air (therefore oxygen) present in the water. The water in Hobart is pretty uncontaminated and comes out of the taps at a fair lick so I dont boil and it only takes a few minutes to fill a 5 gallon fermenting container (plastic) with a shower head on a metal hose. I can leave the fermenter in the shower (filling), whilst I 'fill' the bath with cold water to chill the brew to pitching temperature. Once the yeast is pitched (usually less than 1 hour after the boiled extract is added,although may need ice in the bath in hot weather), out comes the bath plug and when dry enough I put an old Polo neck jumper over the fermenter (upright barrel) to keep the sunlight off. The airlock sticks out of the neck, the temperature strip can be checked by lifting up the side of the jumper. The bath is an old style enamal over metal and I suspect helps reduce temperature fluctuations over day/night. This system works for me, and I get most of my fermentations done for ales within 4 or 5 days before moving into a secondary. The secondary (plastic) is also kept in the bath and used to fill the keg in the bathroom. I now fill a priming/bottling bucket (plastic) in the bathroom which I take to the kitchen when occasionally bottling. This is placed over the dishwasher where I 'clean/sterilise' the bottles (now using bleach in the first cycle) and fill them over the open door. I cap as I fill on the kitchen work top. I used to soak bottles in the bath in sodium metabisulphite (SM), enabling me to bottle in the bathroom too. The keg and the bottles are stored in the cellar under the house until consumed. Enough lagers bottles go into the fridge in the kitchen to meet likely demand. The dirty plastic containers are cleaned and 'sterilised' in the shower which is then hosed out afterwards. I have stopped using SM and am now using houshold bleach (unscented and then rinsed) for 'sterilising' whilst I (slowly) carry out research on SM and its potential for problems to health. Using this process, most of the liquids are kept in the bathroom apart from the extract and adjuncts which are heated in the kitchen on the gas top and carried into the bathroom and placed into the fermenter. This is a short distance and the amounts are reasonably small and easily handled so I am prepared to acccept the risks. My partner is patient with me unless she finds the odd 5 gallon container draining in the shower unit when she goes for her morning shower. She also doesnt get too up tight about the fermenters and secondary in the bath, and it always keeps the vistors amused when thy look under the jumper. It may not be the most sterile process, but with wiping down and common sense its simple, cheap, reasonably safe and works. I have not lost a brew yet to infection, but may have to revise that statement after this batch of lager. Lager is fermented in winter in the cellar as it is too warm down there in summer. Not a great fan of lager so I dont brew much. However I did an experiment by taking 1 gallon from the secondary and pouring in a can of rasberries less the juice and leaving it in there for about 3 months (forgot about it!) under an airlock. The surface of the liquid in the secondary became heavily crsuted with what appeared to be a mould so I bottled from underneath the crud. It tasted great going into the bottles, but there are a number of floaters in the bottles. I have not yet tried one as I have been hoping that the stuff will settle. Should be interesting. Probably taste it in the bathroom too! Yes, I do use a simple starter with some DME boiled in water (then cooled to pitching temperature) and yeast nutrient the day before. This is made in a bottle or even in the bottom of the fermenter. If I havent made a starter the previous day, then I place the same mix in a bottle a couple of hours before needing it. This lets me know if the yeast is working. I always use two sachet of yeast to maximise the yeast population and reduce the ferment time. Some fermentations on warm days have visibly stopped after two days. Its most useful to check the specific gravity after the water, extract, sugar/honey/DME/etc has been added and when visible fermenting (bubbles in airlock) has stopped)and moving into the secondary and also when kegging or bottling. I use a secondary as it means I have more flexibility when I bottle or keg and dont have to be so particular in making sure that the SG is correct as it will carry on fermenting slowly if necessary. A thermometer and a hydrometer are very useful things to buy. I have just experimented with not priming the ale in my keg and just using the CO2 cylander. It has worked, but I have to confess that it seems to have been self priming, which suggests that it still had fermentables after several weeks in the secondary. It was a strong brew however which was an attempt to emulate a Wadworths Old Timer, which is close to a barly wine. One Pint is enough for most people. Hope this is useful to new brewers who have may be put off by what sometimes appears in this digest to be a complicated process. I should add that most of this system has developed over time and using advice from the digest, for which many thanks. Ps. For any fellow Australians, yes I am an ex-pom, I dont use the bath every day, but I do use the shower unit! Nigel Townsend Hobart, Tasmania Australia Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 96 18:18:49 CST From: "Tracy Aquilla" <aquilla at salus.med.uvm.edu> Subject: why aerate?, "second opinion" In Digest #1943: Paul Sovcik <U18183 at UICVM.CC.UIC.EDU> wrote: >One thing I'm trying to understand about yeast metabolism, aeration etc... > >Given that oxygen is important to form sterols in cell membranes, and >good oxygenation is important in developing adequate healthy yeast populations, >why aerate at all if you pitch an adequate amount of yeast? Good question. I made beer for over ten years before I ever aerated a batch. Most of it was excellent. It isn't as important for some brews as it is for others. If you handle the yeast properly, adapt your starters (you can aerate them too!), and pitch BIG, you can get by just fine without aerating the wort. However, it definitely helps, especially if you're fermenting a high gravity wort. In fact, I think unless you really try, it's not that easy to thoroughly aerate (to saturation). FWIW, shaking a full carboy probably won't do it. Maybe A.J. can collect and post some data of this nature? (hint, hint) :-) Then, Chris Storey <cstorey at mail.peterboro.net> wrote: >My wife works at a hospital as a medical secretary. I don't know how the >subject came up about homebrewing, but this doctor of internal medicine said ^^^^^^^ Sure that wasn't an intern? ;-) >this to her. He asked my wife if I drank my beer before a month old. She >said yes. I do. I try it at different stages to see how it is doing. I think >everyone does this. He said that it can be poisonous. I can't believe it! >Something about the yeast and alcohol at early stages. I really don't think >so, but I thought I would ask the collective to see if anyone out there >knows of people DYING to try their beer early. Maybe he thought I was making >moonshine! Any comments on this? I can't believe it either! It might be wise to get a second opinion. I suggest asking him for a reference (like a medical journal). If he really knows what he's talking about, he can give you a specific literature citation. I think he's full of B.S. The AMA has most of those guys brain-washed into believing that anything fun must be bad for your health. I subscribe to the conspiracy theory when it comes to this kind of thing; I call it the AAF (Alliance Against Fun). (FWIW, I'm not an MD, but I've had the displeasure of trying to teach human physiology to med students on the rare occasion.) Tracy in Vermont aquilla at salus.med.uvm.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 19:43:55 -0500 From: baldwin at netcom.com (J.D. Baldwin) Subject: Lager yeast with Ale recipe? (Russ Snyder) Russ Snyder <rsnyder at LANDO.HNS.COM> writes: >Since I don't have a clever way of keeping the carboy at the required >temp. and cranking the heat up in the house is not an option (house >is empty during the day and can't justify heating it for the beer >alone), I was wondering: I could have written this post two weeks ago, and probably would have, if I hadn't found The Answer on my own at my local brewshop. It is a heating belt that will put 20W of heat right onto your glass (or, I suppose, plastic) carboy, regulating it at 72 deg. F. I used this on my second batch of brew and it worked GREAT. And it was only $25. (I'll be happy to provide the name and phone number of the shop on request, they *do* fill mail order requests.) So, no need to heat your entire house just for beer (is there a better reason, though?), 20W left on for a whole week is only 3.36 kWh, which is about $0.35 where I live and probably not more than 50 cents in the most expensive power service area in the U.S. - -- From the catapult of J.D. Baldwin |+| "If anyone disagrees with anything I _,_ Finger baldwin at netcom.com |+| say, I am quite prepared not only to _|70|___:::)=}- for PGP public |+| retract it, but also to deny under \ / key information. |+| oath that I ever said it." --T. Lehrer ***~~~~----------------------------------------------------------------------- Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 19:55:45 -0500 From: genitom at nyslgti.gen.ny.us (Michael A. Genito) Subject: In HBD 1943, Adam Rich wrote: - ----- From: rich.adam at mayo.edu (Adam Rich) Subject: Possible Infection ...my beer gets more carbonated with time in the bottles...it does not gush or foam...I prime 5 gallon batches with 1/2 cup corn sugar and bottle in Grolsch style bottles...I now use iodophor solution to sanatize the bottles, and use a bottle brush routinely. The rubber gaskets are all taken off and put into boiling water for 2 minutes...I am a partial-mash brewer. I buy extract in 30 pound buckets and I wonder if this could be the culprit?...I think this may be a wild-yeast problem. I bake bread every weekend in the same kitchen that I make beer in. However, I quit doing it on the same day! Now I try to clean the countertop with bleach, and I shower before brewing! I also sweep the floor and mop before brewing... - ----- WOW! You're a lot more sanitary than I! I use Grolsch bottles also, and simply make sure I rinse the bottle well after drinking the contents. Sometime shortly before bottling, all my bottles go in the dishwasher on short cycle with a couple ounces of bleach - I dont bother removing the gaskets unless they must be replaced due to age. I prime with 3/4 - 1 cup corn sugar to 5 gals. I also at times bake bread just before brewing or bottling w/o problems. I think your sanitizing practice is more than enough. I think your problem might have more to do with whether or not your letting the brew ferment to completion before bottling. Also - check your pouring methods: most of my brews must be poured slowly and evenly down the side of the glass, otherwise the head gets too high. If you want a creamier, softer head, try adding 5 or 6 ounces of wheat or flaked barley to your partial mash. BTW - the higher gravity the beer (stout, bock, etc), the greater possibility that you will have strong heading. Michael A. Genito, Director of Finance, Town of Ramapo 237 Route 59, Suffern, NY 10901 TEL: 914-357-5100 x214 FAX: 914-357-7209 Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 96 16:34:22 PST From: stafford at alcor.hac.com (Jack Stafford) Subject: Re: Unexpected high gravity reading > Yeasterday I brewed the "Sun Has Left Us On Time" Steam Beer > from the NCJOHB recipes. I got an OG of 1.102 at 74 deg F. I checked my hydrometer = 1.001 in tap water at ~65 deg F. Normal, so the hydrometer is ok. <scratching head> My method was to pour the hot wort from the brew kettle into a 6 gal. plastic bucket. Then pour cold water in, up to the 5 gal. mark. I waited about 20 minutes and the temperature was about 76 deg F. I shook the bucket a few times and added the proofed yeast. Immediately following the yeast I took a sample for the OG reading. It was 1.102 on Monday night. Just for kicks I did a reading today at lunchtime; it's 1.058 I suspect that part of the concentrated wort did not mix from adding the water and the shaking. I guess that sample was a lot thicker and the last day or so of fermentation stirred it into a homogeneous mix. Relaxing and having a homebrew, Thanks for the responses! Jack stafford at alcor.hac.com Costa Mesa, CA Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 08:09:42 From: braue at ratsnest.win.net (John W. Braue, III) Subject: Urban Legends of Homebrewing Chris Storey <cstorey at mail.peterboro.net> writes: >My wife works at a hospital as a medical secretary. I don't know how the >subject came up about homebrewing, but this doctor of internal medicine said >this to her. He asked my wife if I drank my beer before a month old. She >said yes. I do. I try it at different stages to see how it is doing. I think >everyone does this. He said that it can be poisonous. I can't believe it! >Something about the yeast and alcohol at early stages. I really don't think >so, but I thought I would ask the collective to see if anyone out there >knows of people DYING to try their beer early. Maybe he thought I was making >moonshine! Any comments on this? Maybe he is, as you suggest, confusing fermenting with homebrewing. Or maybe he tried green beer once and didn't like the taste. Or maybe your wife's acquaintance is the same chap as mentioned in the next clip: aesoph%ncemt.ctc.com at ctcga.ctc.com (Aesoph, Michael) writes: > A freind of mine mentioned that the addition of certain substances >to any fermenting beverage could produce Methyl alcohol. If I recall >correctly, this is the poisonous variety. He specifically mentioned >potatoes, other vegetables and certain grains. Is this true, or is he >full of nonsense? I always assumed that the homebrewer was perfectly >safe under all circumstances... Sorry if this is in the FAQ somewhere, I >simply don't have it. Bat puckey. The addition of potatoes, corn, sunchokes, or Brussels sprouts to your wort will *not* cause the yeast to produce methanol (although Brussels sprouts may make the beer as unpalatable as if it did). Potatoes, at least, are used in various consumable and low (meant to be distilled, not drunk) beers as a primary source of fermentables. Since the "other vegetables" and "certain grains" are vague to me (maybe your friend meant "grains" of pine sawdust? Nah, that wouldn't do it either), it's as impossible to refute such yivshish as to refute claims of a Bildenburger-led world conspriacy. This sounds like simple ignorance, perhaps exacerbated by those with an ideological bent against homebrewing ("Brew your own beer, and you'll be possessed by Satan...or carried off by space aliens...or something.") If Chris and/or Michael are in confrontational moods, they can ask their acquaintances to specify the mysterious substances that turn malt into methanol and posion green beer. Or they can kick back and have a beer. - -- John W. Braue, III braue at ratsnest.win.net I prefer both my beer and my coffee to be dark and bitter; that way, they fit in so well with the rest of my life. I've decided that I must be the Messiah; people expect me to work miracles, and when I don't, I get crucified. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 20:36:28 -0700 From: brew2u at azstarnet.com (Steve Comella) Subject: Belgian White >Date: Mon, 22 Jan 1996 10:17:34 -0800 >From: Mike_Taber at broder.com (Mike Taber) >Subject: White Beer > > Now that my English Brown Ale is in the primary... > > I'm thinking about doing a White Beer. I have the specifics of the > style (OG 1.0044 - 1.050 - Alc% 4.8 to 5.2 - IBU 15 to 25 - Color 2.0 > to 4.0), but don't really know where to start. > I know what hops I like, but really can't get the color and OG right. > Also, I'm not sure what yeast I should use. > > So... Do you any of you in HBD land have a suggestion or two? Mike: For an all-grain batch, this will depend on your mash efficiency, but let's assume it's around 75%. You might start with 4.5 to 5 pounds each of Belgian Pils malt and raw wheat (for a 5-gal. batch). This should give you an O.G. of ~1.051 and color of ~4 SRM. A good hop selection is Saaz, and a good yeast selection is Wyeast 3944 Belgian Witbeer. There are a million variations of mashing schedules, depending on your quest for light, medium or sweet beer, but there should definitely be a protein rest to assist in the conversion of the wheat. I've seen some recipes which call for cooking the wheat prior to adding to the mash to accomplish this, but I have yet to try this. If you need more help, fire me off an e-mail. Steve Comella brew2u at azstarnet.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 00:00:41 -0500 From: dludwig at atc.ameritel.net Subject: Growing Hops I want to try growing some hops this year. Does anyone have a mailorder source for root cuttings? I was in the Munich area last Oct/Nov and saw the hops trelleses(sp?) that abound in that area. If you've ever seen them, gives you a good idea of the height these buggers can climb. I almost pulled over to dig up a few roots! Haven't heard from the Coyote lately. A while back he always had some good advice on growing hops. - Dave Ludwig in wet and soggy Southern MD(but not for long!) Return to table of contents