HOMEBREW Digest #1970 Tue 27 February 1996

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		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor

  Goofy Gravities/Water analysis (CASteveB)
  Questions on Zymurgy CF chiller test ("Mark G. Schmitt")
  re: funky bock (lheavner)
  ss pot/bleach temp/ESB recipe ("Sharon A. Ritter")
  Special "B" is crystal??!! (Jim Cave)
  re: RIMS question (C.D. Pritchard)
  Starting out (John W. Braue, III)
  Elephant Malt Clone (bugman2)
  Cervesa autentica! (Charlie Scandrett)
  Spent Grains in bread. (Alan Folsom)
  Sumerian Beer description (Terry Smith)
  Frozen Wyeast lives! (Scott Bukofsky)
  malt/proteins (Jim Busch)
  Club Wort Presents the 1st Annual BJCP sanctioned Easter (Scott Abene)
  little orange thingie? (Chuck Wettergreen)
  Pet Bottles and Dishwashers (J. Matthew Saunders)
  RE: Krausening and Gyle / botulism (Alec Saunders)
  Re: Brewers Companion (Mark Thompson)
  first time brewer, HELP! ("FINLEY, BARRY CURTIS")
  High Terminal Gravity (Lorne P. Franklin)
  It's not beer. (Domenick Venezia)
  Water-Brita Filters (ArnoldWa)
  mixed gases....continued (Jerry Lee)
  Re: Starting Out (Robert Bush)
  Bottle to Bottle Transfer (kgmiller)
  Re: "The Brewer's Companion", Mosher (Bob McCowan)
  Re: European Brewery Tours (Robert Bush)
  The Macitosh Minority / Brew-ware (Simonzip)
  Re: mixed gases....continued (Jerry Lee)
  Mike's List of Homebrewing Suppliers-UPDATE (Mike White)
  Micro shopping in Denver (DEBOLT BRUCE)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 25 Feb 1996 15:20:49 -0500 From: CASteveB at aol.com Subject: Goofy Gravities/Water analysis Hello brewers! Last Sunday (18 Feb) I brewed an American Pale Ale. I used 6 lbs. Light DME as well as some steeped specialty grains. For a 5 gal batch, this should have yielded a SG of approximately 1.050 (Assuming 1.042 for the DME). After it was in the fermenter I took a SG reading and it was 1.026! (It also tasted incredibly bitter, which I think would make sense if the SG was half of what I was shooting for.) After a little contemplation that night I decided that first thing in the morning I would boil up some more DME, put it in another fermenter, and rack as much as I could out of the first fermenter into the new one. Since I got half of what I wanted the first time, I used another 6 lbs. DME with 1 gal of water (as little water as I thought would work) the second time. Everything went well and I got most of the first batch into the second fermenter (as well as a *really* clear wort because of all the trub that settled overnight). I took another reading and the SG was 1.080! I could see it being a little higher than the 1.050 I was origanally hoping for, but not that high. It has been fermenting very well throughout the week, and I will rack to the secondary sometime this week. Where did I mess up? Do you think this will turn out to be O.K. even though not exactly what I was hoping for? My second issue involves the water analysis I received. Here is what I have: pH: 7.3 - 7.7; Hardness: 480 mg/l as CaC03; SO4: 10 ppm; Cl: 6 ppm; Na: 4.69 ppm. I had also requested info on Ca, Mg, C03, and 2(HCO3), but they left that blank. I have read the section on water in both of C. Papazian's books, and am still a little confused about what the results mean for me. I plan to stick to extracts with specialty grains for the near future (I will probably be moving before I jump into any mashing), so do I need to worry that much about my extra hard water. I do use an activated charcoal filter for all my brewing water, but do I need to do more? Will using better water improve my beer that much (both in taste and other qualities such as head retention)? TIA for the help. I feel very fortunate to have access to the wealth of knowledge and experience that I have found in the HBD. Steve Return to table of contents
Date: 25 Feb 96 16:18:52 EST From: "Mark G. Schmitt" <102160.1456 at compuserve.com> Subject: Questions on Zymurgy CF chiller test Could someone help me understand the test results from Zymurgy's counterflow wort chiller evaluation? Perhaps I don't know what the authors mean by *Time To Cool 5 Gal* of wort. To me this implies the time it takes for 5 gal of wort to gravitate through the inside copper tube. If so, then why does it takes 20+ min to go through 25' of 3/8 OD tubing but only 12+ to traverse 50'? Are not the Brewers Resource model and the 25' Listermann model identical except for the garden hose? Then how come the wort flow is 19.7 gal/hr for the former but 14.9 gal/hr for the latter? I was a little suprised to note that the extra 25' of tubing in the second Listermann chiller only dropped the wort temp by one additional degree to 64F even though the coolent temperature is 52F. Finally, is the key to CF design a large diameter inner tube as in the Heart's chiller? I was pleased to see this comparision as my current CF chiller is about shot and I am in the market to buy/make a new one. But this article left me a little confused. Mark Schmitt 102160.1456 at compu$erve.com Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 25 Feb 1996 16:52:33 -0600 From: lheavner at tcmail.frco.com Subject: re: funky bock In HBD 1968, Maxwell McDaniel asks about improving a kit based on LME for a bock. The worst beers I ever made were kits obtained from England by a coworker on a trip he made over there. They were a Gordie Gold Medal Bitter and a Gordie Mild. I was trying to remain true to the styles assuming that the kits were as advertised. Therefore, I made approximately 3 gal/batch rather than 5 gal and have to add the recommended table sugar. I questioned the viability of the yeasts provided, so I used a nottingham dry yeast for each following the usual procedures. The "Gold Medal" kit contained a packet of hops which was also suspect. Therefore, hopped it with an oz of fuggles (1/2 at the begin of the boil and 1/2 with about 5 minutes left). Both beers turned out nearly black in color and excessively bitter almost burnt tasting. I was embarrased, but glad to give away most of the batches to the guy who asked me to make them. (I did later give him some good ESB made from extract & grains to protect my reputation) When I examined the label on the LME cans, the 2nd ingredient was carmel. That is what I suspect dominated the flavor and surely caused the dark color. I don't know if using corn sugar or corn syrup to make a 5 gal batch would have been an improvement, but I doubt it. It probably wouldn't have been any worse though. I found that blending them off with domestic lite beer (kept in the fridge for some of my tasteless friends, not for me) made them more drinkable. I got the idea from Black & Tans, but I'd rather have a real Black & Tan, anyday. Bottom Line: If carmel is a key ingredient, you may have to live with the off flavor or find a way to dispose of it. If you are determined to consume it, try blending it off with something that will balance out the flavor. Take the advice for extract brewing offered earlier in HBD, and if possible, brew w/ pale malt extract and use specialty grains to achieve color and special taste objectives. And consider liquid yeast, especially when trying to achieve unusual styles. Good luck however it turns out! Return to table of contents
Date: 25 Feb 96 18:43:55 EST From: "Sharon A. Ritter" <102446.3717 at compuserve.com> Subject: ss pot/bleach temp/ESB recipe <Mitch Hogg asks about upgrading from his enameled steel pot (HB1963).> I hemmed and hawed for a year about the cost of a quality SS pot. Just like Mitch, my once-a-month all grain batches were taking a toll on my enameled pot. I recently bit my tongue (my wife bit hers too) and shelled out $160 for a Vollrath 38.5 quart stainless steel vessel (it's a "vessel" at that price). I love it and hope to pass it on to my children as a family heirloom. <Mitch also inquired about the reason to use cold water, not hot, when mixing bleach.> I believe the primary reason is that hot water and bleach makes for more chlorine gas than mixing with cold water. I don't think there is a practical difference in terms of sanitizing effectiveness. But, what do I know about science!? Now MY question: I'm want to brew an Extra Special Bitter that tastes and smells like Deschutes' Bachelor Bitter and NOT like Red Hook's ESB. (What is that aroma I smell in the Red Hook variety?) I like the clean but fruity taste and the unmistakeable Kent Goldings hops flavor and aroma in the Bachelor Bitter. I plan to use Wyeast #1968 at 62F, Hugh Baird 2-row, 8% 90L English Crystal, 5% Flaked Wheat, and 35 IBU's of Goldings hops. SG of about 1.044. Any thoughts about this recipe and the taste profile I seek? Dan Ritter in Grangeville, Idaho 102446.3717 at compuserve.com Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 25 Feb 1996 17:26:24 -0800 (PST) From: Jim Cave <CAVE at PSC.ORG> Subject: Special "B" is crystal??!! I could be corrected, but I read the post by (?) concerning the use of special B and the comment was made that this was some sort of a special, high roast crystal malt. This does not look to be the case from my examination of this malt. It appears to be some sort of high roast malt but I could not see any caramelization of the interiour of the malt that would indicate a crystalization inside. I chewed a several kernals and the perception is one of a drying roast, rather than a lusiousness (which would be perceived from crystal). Has anyone seen a spec. sheet on the production of this malt? I broke in half and chewed 20 odd kernals of DC caramunich and it would seem to me that about half of these are caramelized and crystalized malt (fairly high roast) and the other half appear to be some sort of high roast munich malt. Does anyone know if this is a blended malt from two different processes? BTW, the Special "B" I examined was Dewolf Cosyns. Jim Cave Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 25 Feb 96 22:12 EST From: cdp at chattanooga.net (C.D. Pritchard) Subject: re: RIMS question "Keith Royster" <keith.royster at ponyexpress.com> posted in 1963: >How do those of you with RIMS deliver the wort to the top of the grain bed >gently and evenly? First try was a manifold made from about 4' of copper 3/8" tubing coiled into a spiral. The manifold had varing sized and spaced holes in an effort to get both a uniform and a low velocity flow. After much expermentation I concluded it couldn't be done and used for both wort and sparge water distribution as I'd hoped. I was preparing to build another one from perforated 1/2" copper pipe with a center feed nipple when I spied a 5 gallon poly pail and some synapses fired in an unusual manner (IOW, a brain-fart). I cut the pail about 5" from the bottom except for 3 "ears" extending above it. The bottom was perforated with 90 uniformally spaced 3/32" holes. I drilled out about 12 of the holes in the copper manifold to 3/16" and put it in the remains of the pail. The pail thing is hung from hooks made from 12 ga copper wire at the top of the RIMS tun via chains fastened to the ears on the pail. The chains and hooks allow for easy adjustment of the height of the thing in the tun and the ears hold it centered in the tun. I haven't mashed with it yet, but, holding it above the tun and observing the exit flow, it's very gentle and very uniform. I expect it will work well both for wort return and for sparging. At 2 GPM (as of now, my max flowrate) the fluid in the pail thing is about 1/2" deep. If you have the oft' recommended higher flowrate pump, you may need larger or more holes in the thing. At a sparge trickle, the holes in the bottom of the copper manifold are just barely covered. The only potiential problem is that the rim at the bottom of the pail could trap a bit of air if you don't put some holes there and don't jiggle the thing a bit to ensure the air is bleed off. Other than trying to find copper or SS chain (I used brass but since it's not in the mash, I don't worry), the thing is easy and cheap to build. >do you think occasional stirring of the grain bed is necessary (maybe >between temp steps) to eliminate temperature pockets, or should the >grain be be shallow enough (even with a 10 gallon batch in a modified >sankey keg) so as not to have these temperature pockets? One of the advantages of the RIMS is that stirring isn't required except at while doughing in! Perhaps it's desirable if your tun isn't well insulated or the flow through the bed isn't uniform but, you should deal with those sorts of problems directly rather than by stirring. With a good system you *may* increase the extract a point or so. IMHO, a few cents worth of additional grain is a great bargin when compared with stirring! Once I get my 'puterized control fine-tuned, I plan on adding several additional temp sensors to the tun. I'll will report what I find; however, like other variables, YMWillV. C.D. Pritchard cdp at chattanooga.net Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 07:28:20 From: braue at ratsnest.win.net (John W. Braue, III) Subject: Starting out sbrborg at umslvma.umsl.edu (Brian Borgstede) writes: >I plan to buy a primary firmenter [sic] (Large plastic food grade >bucket w/lid.) and carboy w/bubbler. >What size carboy should I buy. (This seems to be the most expensive part >and I only want to buy one) Quite simply: buy one approximately the same size as the primary fermenter. As you have noted, 5 US gallons is a pretty standard size for recipes. The primary fermenter should be somewhat larger than this to allow for the vigorous production of kraeusen by the fermenter. The carboy, of 5 gal. size, can then be used secondary fermentation, dry hopping, etc. If you're not planning for the use of the carboy for these purposes, don't buy one. - -- John W. Braue, III braue at ratsnest.win.net john.braue at berlinwall.org "The water of England is not drinkable" - -- Elizabeth of York in a letter to the Infanta Catalina of Aragon I've decided that I must be the Messiah; people expect me to work miracles, and when I don't, I get crucified. Return to table of contents
Date: Sun Feb 25 22:51:33 1996 From: bugman2 at aroundhorn.win.net Subject: Elephant Malt Clone Does anyone have a all grain recipe similiar to Elephant Malt from Denmark? Mail sent with Portico for Excalibur Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 25 Feb 1995 00:17:49 +1100 From: merino at cynergy.com.au (Charlie Scandrett) Subject: Cervesa autentica! Could those Spanish speakers among us respond to Imanol's posts when they come, beer should speak all languages. >Date: Sun, 25 Feb 1996 00:13:55 >To: Imanol >From: Charlie <merino at buggs.cynergy.com.au> >Subject: Cervesa autentica! > >Bienvenido Imanol! >Soy australiano quien habler un porquito de espanol. Por favor, manda su cartes en espanol, mucho gentes hablan este idioma. Nosotros responderemos en espanol por correo en privado. El nivel de "Home Brew Digest" es por principiantes and experimentados cerverceros. > >esperemos, > >Charlie (Brisbane, Australia) > Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 05:44:22 -0800 From: folsom at ix.netcom.com (Alan Folsom) Subject: Spent Grains in bread. Recently there was a discussion regarding using spent grains in bread, which I have mislaid. Can someone summarize for me by email? Quantities, and adjustments to recipes appreciated, or even example recipes. Thanks, Al Folsom Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 09:26:24 -0500 From: tsmith at tiac.net (Terry Smith) Subject: Sumerian Beer description Someone here recently asked about the project to recreate a Sumerian Beer. One major contributors was Fritz Maytag. There has apparently been a flurry of discussion of this on an ancient near east mailing list. A friend sent me a reference to an article on the process. Try: http://s-kanslia-3.hut.fi/SumerianBeer.html I suggest that you look at it, even if you aren't interested in Sumerian beer, for the lovely and moving Sumerian "Hymn to Ninkasi". One verse of this hymn is quoted here: When you pour out the filtered beer of the collector vat, It is [like] the onrush of Tigris and Euphrates. Ninkasi, you are the one who pours out the filtered beer of the collector vat, It is [like] the onrush of Tigris and Euphrates. These folks were our spiritual cousins..... Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 09:28:51 -0500 (EST) From: Scott Bukofsky <scott.bukofsky at yale.edu> Subject: Frozen Wyeast lives! Thanks to all those who responded to my fears about a frozen Wyeast packet. After making a starter culture, the yeast kicked right in. It is now fermenting happily in a 5-gallon batch of beer. Yeast are hardier creatures than I realized. -Scott Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 09:51:33 -0500 (EST) From: Jim Busch <busch at eosdev2.gsfc.nasa.gov> Subject: malt/proteins Charlie writes some good stuff about malts/protein: <Also enzymic modification of the protein profile is dominated by malting, This cannot be emphasized enough. It is why I asked awhile ago what types of malts are considered low in degree of modification and received few good responses. The bottom line is that the maltsters, for their own benefits and not for brewers, are doing too much of the work of brewers. Pro brewers must demand malt that meets the needs of the craft brewer, and if that means one wants to make classic Bavarian lagers it can be very difficult to find an adequate malt. < If they step mash before going to bed they could produce up to 50% of their <final Amino Acid content in their mash, but after 55C, very few increased AA's The bulk of the amino acid profile is also fixed by the maltster and not by mashing techniques, although they play relatively minor role. Lance Stronk babbles: <Again, I understand that it is possible to blab away on the HBD but this is garbage. I am not the HBD police but, Piss off and scroll down for crissakes. The post was just fine and fairly accurate. And Rob says about domestic 2 row: <As far as I'm concerned, the domestic 2-row malts out there are more like <lager malt, because of the typically higher enzyme levels and the noticeable <if not prodigious amount of DMS production during brewing. Certainly, <brewers' techniques will affect the level of DMS in the final product, but <I'm firmly rooted in the camp that English Style ales should not have DMS <levels above flavor threshold. As such I feel domestic malts are more suited <for lagers, Belgian ales, Kolsch, and Alt. In my experience I could wave a pot of 155F water over domestic 2 row and it would convert! As for "better for non English ales", I would point out that the vast majority of craft ales are produced with this type of malt. Many rave about the ales of Anchor, Sierra, etc and it is domestic 2 row. While a decent lager can be made with this malt, a better lager can be made with the likes of malt from Bamberg. I dont feel that a traditional alt can be produced with domestic 2 row, nor a clean Koelsch, it would be too grainy. Jim Busch A Victory For Your Taste! Festbier, Lager and IPA (and Pils, and Mild and Doppelbock and .....) No copyright implied, wanted, or thought tasteful - Jeff Frane. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 09:33:47 -0600 From: Scott Abene <skotrat at wwa.com> Subject: Club Wort Presents the 1st Annual BJCP sanctioned Easter CLUB WORT PRESENTS THE 1ST ANNUAL BJCP SANCTIONED EASTER INVITATIONAL HOMEBREW COMPETITION DATE: Saturday, April 6, 1996 LOCATION: Durty Nellie's West Irish Pub Corner of Bothwell and Slade Streets Palatine, IL 60007 Phone (847) 358-9150 (for directions). CATEGORIES: All AHA recognized categories except sake. Number of categories and flights based on number of entries. ENTRY REQUIREMENTS: Three (3) capped bottles per entry. 10-14 oz. Green or brown glass bottles required. Glass should have no paper or inked labels, raised glass brand-name designs, or any other distinguishing marks on the bottle. Lettering or graphics on bottle caps must be obliterated with black permanent marker. Corked bottles or swing-tops are not allowed. Bottle ID Form must be attached to each entry with a rubber band. Entry forms should be completely filled out (category and sub-category included!) and enclosed with entries. All entries should be mailed to: Chuck Gollay c/o BBPCo. 400 Lexington Drive Buffalo Grove, IL 60089 email: Brudaddy at wwa.com Please contact Chuck at the Phone number below or the email address above for a competition entry packet. Deadline to receive entry forms and beer is Monday, April 1, 1996. Competition organizers are not responsible for entries lost/delayed in mail. All entries become the property of Club Wort. Call Chuck Gollay at 847-991-6855 or e-mail to if you want to confirm receipt of entry. No other confirmation will be given! FEES: 1-3 Entries: $5 per entry ($4 for members) 4+ Entries: $4 per entry ($3.50 for members) Make checks payable to CLUB WORT. JUDGING: Homebrew competition judging will take place beginning at 11:00 A.M. AHA judging guidelines will be followed. Judges will not evaluate beers in categories in which they have entries. Evaluations and results will be returned to each entrant within 2-3 weeks. AWARDS: Ribbons will be given to the top three finishers in each flight. Blue ribbon winners will also be awarded various prizes still to be determined. Best of Show winner will receive an authentic German beer stein. AGE: All entries must be brewed and submitted by persons at least 21 years of age. Please direct questions to Chuck Gollay at (847)-991-6855 or by e-mail. Please copy and distribute freely to any and all homebrewers. Also check out the Club Wort Webpage at http://miso.wwa.com/~skotrat/cwort.html Please direct all competition queries to Chuck Gollay ( Brudaddy at wwa.com ) and not Scott Abene. Thanks! Enjoy! **************************************************** * Scott Abene * * skotrat at wwa.com * * http://miso.wwa.com/~skotrat * * (Skotrats Official Homebrew "Beer Slut" Webpage) * * "Get off your dead ass and brew" * **************************************************** Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 09:56:31 -0600 From: chuckmw at mcs.net (Chuck Wettergreen) Subject: little orange thingie? In #1968 Russel Mast (rmast at fnbc.com) asks about the little orange thingie on the end of a racking cane. HH> Bad ASCII, eh? The "o" is a little orange thing. HH> your hose. This is a pretty standard piece of equipment. (Side note - what the hell is this thing called?) It is known as a "foot", just like a "foot valve". Cheers, Chuck /*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/* Chuck Wettergreen chuckmw at mcs.com Geneva, Il /*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/* Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 11:18:32 -0500 From: saunderm at vt.edu (J. Matthew Saunders) Subject: Pet Bottles and Dishwashers Tracy writes: >Are PET bottles dishwasher safe? I was going to try a couple with my >next batch of beer but wanted to know how to clean them. Is just >bleaching enough if they can't make it through the dishwasher? PET bottles are decidedly un-dishwasher safe. I have several PET blobs from sending them through the cycle. Bleaching is enough. I've been brewing for 7 years with them--sanitizing with bleach--and have never had a problem. I use two or three tablespoons of bleach per gallon of sanitizing water and soak the bottles for ten minutes (same with the caps). I then rinse them and cap them lightly for bottling later. Works dandy. Cheers! Matthew ============================================================================ "Madness takes its toll. Please have exact change." J. Matthew Saunders saunderm at vt.edu http://fbox.vt.edu:10021/S/saunderm/index.html/page_1.html ============================================================================ Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 08:30:56 -0800 From: Alec Saunders <alecs at MICROSOFT.com> Subject: RE: Krausening and Gyle / botulism > >HuskerRed at aol.com writes: >>I was think about doing it. I would use his formula to calculate the >>amount of gyle required, freeze it in a clean plastic container. I would >>then thaw it out in a pan and boil it. Allow it to cold. Then add it to >>the wort in my bottling bucket. CP says to save in a sterile jar in the >>refrigerator and then pitch. Is there any reason way freezing and >>reboiling wouldn't be better? Or is this whole process just a PITA and >>just not worth the trouble? I have done this. Purely subjective viewpoint - I think it produces some minor differences in the beer. I ended up with a beer that had very fine bubbles and lots of carbonation and nice head retention. How much of that was due to the beer itself vs. how it was primed... well, your guess is as good as mine. It was a very fine beer though. On a related topic, a while ago there was some discussion about canning starters (I used to use one of my canned starters for "krausening" when I did this). Someone commented that they were worried about botulism in a canned starter, which is why they didn't do this. Well, just recently I came across some really good info about botulism in a book on canning and smoking fish. Short answer: there is no reason to be worried about botulism from canned beer starters. Long answer: Botulism is a toxin produced by the bacteria Clostridium Botulinum. Simply boiling the wort kills any bacteria which might be present, and also destroys the toxin. And, from the "Health Protection Branch, Botulism Reference Centre" at the Government of Canada -- "Canned fruits, jams and jellies, and pickles and relishes do not cause botulism; high concentrations of acid, salt, or sugar prevent the growth of botulinum bacteria". I would guess that the heat of canning combined with the fact that wort is basically sugary water is enough to deal with those little botulism bacterias... > Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 96 8:48:15 PST From: Mark Thompson <markt at hpdocp3.cup.hp.com> Subject: Re: Brewers Companion D & S Painter wrote : > I now have a quick question for anyone who has purchased or has been in > contact with Randy Mosher's book The Brewer's Companion; could you > please give me a review on this book. I picked up this book last year and after reading it I wasn't all that excited about it and sorry that I spent $20 for it. I have found David Miller's new book much more interesting and a better use of my money. For me TBC has about 20 pages of usefull information. Much of it seems to be targeted towards someone that doesn't have an online brewlog or notebook. There are many pages dedicated to logging ones brew session. There are some reference pages that can be usefull also, but not worth the price. All in all i wouldn't recommend it. Mark Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 12:25:20 EST From: "FINLEY, BARRY CURTIS" <BFINLEY at MUSIC.CC.UGA.EDU> Subject: first time brewer, HELP! I have been interested in brewing for quite some time. I enjoy a good beer more than just about anything. I joined this group so I could possibly get some advice for people that have become skilled brewers through their experience. I don't even know how to start. Is there some good literature that can help me out? Also, can I get some input on the best system for a beginer is? Thanks for your help Barry Finley Atlanta, Ga. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 12:31:53 -0400 From: lachina at interramp.com (Lorne P. Franklin) Subject: High Terminal Gravity In HBD 1968 Kelly wrote: I allways use wyeast liquid yeast and I get a steady slow fermentation but usually end up with a higher finish gravity than I should have. I'm talking about a pilsner at 18 - 20. I usually do my ales at 65 deg. And Lagers start at the same and end up in the fridge at 35 deg. - -->Ditto for me. I've been brewing for three years and mashing for two. I'm generally very pleased with the results of my work, but the terminal gravity is not as low as sources indicate that it should be. This applies to both low (150F) and high (157F) starch-conversion temperatures. However, Kelly, I do use yeast starters (20 fluid oz. for ales, 30 fluid oz. for lagers). So, if there is a common cause of our shared frustration, I don't think that increasing the volume of yeast will bring down the T.G. in your finished beers. Perhaps someone else can shed some light . . . L o r n e F r a n k l i n Lachina Publishing Services t. 216.292.7959 - f. 216.292.3639 lachina at interramp.com Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 09:50:29 -0800 (PST) From: Domenick Venezia <venezia at zgi.com> Subject: It's not beer. I hesitate to reprint this recipe, and forgive me, but I feel it necessary as justification for what follows ... > In HBD #1969 From: careyj at clan.TartanNET.ns.ca (John Carey) >I've been reading all the high tech info on brewing for the past week or >so but don't see much to help the average person who just wants to make a >batch of suds as simply as possible. Hence, for the help of any such >person on the HBD list I submit the following recipe which I have been >using for some twenty years or so with considerable success. > >Ingredients: > 4 kg white sugar,(corn if preferred) > 2 cans (1.13kg) Brewmix malt > 1 can doric malt > various types of hop pellets to taste. >This makes 14 doz. bottles of brew. About 7% > alcohol by vol. > ... <snip> I am having a very hard time responding to this post because it literaly left me speechless. Thankfully, it was a temporary condition. First, John, this is a beer list. I am not a beer snob but your recipe is not for beer. It appears to be a lightly flavored alcoholic solution, not unlike Zima, though you do mention hops. My guess is that its primary function is the production of cheap, non-lethal, drunkedness. If I understand your first line it means that you have been monitoring the HBD for a week, and have missed its point entirely. You are quite correct in stating that there's not "much to help the average person who just wants to make a batch of suds as simply as possible." This is a list for people who like to brew. For people who enjoy the process and the results. Who strive for better beer, even better beer more simply, but the operative adjective here is "better". This list is the antithesis to the cane sugar, molasses, and baker's yeast type beers of prohibition of which yours is a modern example. You have been making this for twenty years with "considerable success". I am curious as to the definition of success in this case. Domenick Venezia Seattle, WA venezia at zgi.com Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 14:01:44 -0500 From: ArnoldWa at aol.com Subject: Water-Brita Filters In HBD #1965 Mr. A.J. deLange discussed water pH and carbon filters. He stated: >Again in # 1961 David Pike asks why city water at pH 8.5 comes out of his >charcoal filter at pH 6.5 - 7. My usual suspicion in this case is that the >filter is more than a charcoal filter i.e. a filter like a Brita filter... >...This is simply confirmed by boiling a sample of the water and checking the pH. If it drops back to around 8.4... I live in San Fran. where the water is very soft and the pH is high (avg. 8.6). I use a Brita filter and have observed the same effects as Mr. Pike. I recently tried boiling a sample and checking the pH: Tap water pH was 7.6. After Brita filtering it was 6.7. After boiling and force chilling it was 6.8. When allowed to cool slowly, it went back to 7.6. I was not aware that the Brita is more than a carbon filter. Does it completely remove all the ions (i.e. 0 ppm Ca, etc.)? Also, I do not understand what caused the pH to return to 7.6 when the water cooled. Any clarification would be greatly appreciated. Don Walsh (arnoldwa at aol.com) Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 11:05:39 -0800 From: jlee at esd.ray.com (Jerry Lee) Subject: mixed gases....continued If you've got the tank, and it's only $12... Go for it, why ask others...just try it and then post how well it worked or didn't. If you carbonate with full CO2 and then drive with nitrogen it seems to be the best of both worlds although a little unnecessary. Are your beers over-carbonating? If not then why drive with nitrogen? If you are over-carbonating then the percent of CO2 vs Nitrogen will depend upon your beer, not the concept of someones opinion. Experiment... Personally I would not pay the expense, or try the high pressures of pure nitrogen. Stay with the mix and use your CO2 regulator (and lower pressures). Once again...only opinion and not worth the time it took to type this..sorry :-} Disclaimer...no I am not the "expert" I just called some bottlers and beer distributors for the basis of both these responses...call your own "experts" for a consensus. ===================================================== ~~~~~ / \ //\\\\\ / Jerry D. Lee, Jr. | SEPG Methods & Tools Chairman / {| ~ ~ |} / Raytheon ESD | E-Mail : jlee at eng.esd.ray.com \ | ^ | / 6380 Hollister Ave | Tel : 805-967-5511 ext2306 \ \ = / \ Goleta, CA 93117 | Fax : 805-964-9185 _/ - --/\-/\-- \ \ \/^\/ \+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=| Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 20:55:26 +0100 From: bush at shbf.se (Robert Bush) Subject: Re: Starting Out In #1969 sbrborg at umslvma.umsl.edu (Brian Borgstede) asked: >I plan to buy a primary firmenter (Large plastic food grade bucket w/lid.) >and carboy w/bubbler. >What size carboy should I buy. (This seems to be the most expensive part >and I only want to buy one) I suggest bying two plastic buckets and skip the carboy! Plastic buckets are cheap, durable and can be fitted with a tap (and "bubbler") for instance. If you've followed the digest you can't have missed all the stories about carboys cracking and people getting wort all over their floors. They're heavier, more difficult to clean, fragile (dangerous if you break them), they let light through, and, as you point out, are expensive (compared to a plastic bucket anyway). I've been using plastic fermenters for seven years now and don't regret for a minute that I got rid of my glass carboy. The only reason I can see for using them is the fact that you can see when the beer clears out. One drawback with plastic buckets is that they get scratched over time if you mistreat them but you would probably have dropped a couple of carboys during that time. I know all you carboy fans out there will try to convince me that they're better but I'm not trying to create a battle similar to the Mac/PC-war here, just give my opinions! BTW, welcome to a great hobby! %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% WASSAIL! %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% % Robert Bush % % Eskilstuna,SWEDEN E-mail: bush at shbf.se % %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 96 16:02:28 EST From: kgmiller at wsicorp.com Subject: Bottle to Bottle Transfer I am lucky enough to have a wife who works in a beer store, so I do most of my bottling in 16 oz and 1 liter swing top bottles. I have a I.P.A. in swing to bottles which I would like to enter into a few contests. My problem is moving the beer to the 12 oz crown capped bottles required by most contests. Can anyone offer a way to move the beer without negatively affecting the flavor and carbonation? Thanks for the help, Ken Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 16:03:12 -0500 From: Bob McCowan <bob.mccowan at cfrp.varian.com> Subject: Re: "The Brewer's Companion", Mosher I have the first edition of this book and it does indeed have a lot of charts, and other detailed information. However, the book is full of errors. For instance, a page will end in the middle of a paragraph, and the next page is a chart of some sort. Unfortunately the rest of the paragraph does not turn up on the following page, or anywhere else in the book, for that matter. A number of the charts seem inconsistent, possibly they are mislabeled. There is some good information in the book, but it is so error prone that it's hard to figure out what to trust. How this book got past even a cursory proofreading is beyond me. Hopefully it's improved with the second edition. Bob Bob McCowan bob.mccowan at cfrp.varian.com "You can't talk to a man with a shotgun in his hand" (Carole King) Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 22:04:37 +0100 From: bush at shbf.se (Robert Bush) Subject: Re: European Brewery Tours In #1969 Jim Booth ("Kathy Booth (Waverly)" <kbooth at isd.ingham.k12.mi.us>) wrote: >Sposual unit and I will be touring in England, Scotland, Ireland, >France, Belgium and Holland in July. I have a limited opportunity to >visit notable breweries and pubs and I would appreciate "do not miss" tours. >Sposual unit has seen numerous US breweries and pubs, and the modern >industrial scene is "Ho-hum". > > So far I've identified: >Brewing Museum on Brussell's great square >Straffe Hendrik Brewrie in Bruges, >Guiness in Dublin, IRE >Samual Smith Museum in York, England One warning / two recommendations: Guinness is oh so boooring! I went there in 1985 (things might have changed but I doubt it) and it wasn't a brewery, it was friggin factory! They took us on a "train"-tour on the outside to see the pipes, the silos and the like and then we were shown a 45 min. video shot inside the factory plus the standard beginners information on what beer consists of and how it's brewed. After that it was in to the sampling "room" (more of a giant restaurant) were we had a pint of (excellent I must say) beer. The next group of people stood outside waiting for their turn so we had to leave after half an hour. I don't know if they're any better but I would try Beamish or Murphy's in the southeast of Ireland (Cork) instead. As for the recommendations, Fuller's of London is brilliant these days. They used to charge you a fee of 2.5 GBP (which isn't bad) but they took that away and opened up a souvenir shop with plenty of gear to drewl over. The brewery tour is very good. You walk around in a small group (10-12 instead of the 50-60 at Guinness) and you can actually hear what the guide is saying (if you can handle the British accent). Young's is my favourite. It has a nice (almost homebrewery-) feel to it and you walk around between the fermenters and you can grab a handful of yeast if you dare ;-). It feels like you're really close to the brewing process and everything. You also get to see the brewery stable and the famous ram. Ask the guide to tell you the story about how they used to make a special fishing-fly from the hair of the rams scrotum! Have a nice trip and let us know how it turned out! %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% WASSAIL! %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% % Robert Bush % % Eskilstuna,SWEDEN E-mail: bush at shbf.se % %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 16:47:42 -0500 From: Simonzip at aol.com Subject: The Macitosh Minority / Brew-ware I brew AND I use a Mac. I've never seen SUD's so I don't know what it can or can't do. I have found, on the AOL brew forum, a piece of freeware called Brewer's Notebook that pretty much suites my basic extract brewing needs. It is a small stand alone application written by Tim Wiley. Some of the calculations include alcohol content, apparent attenuation, specific gravity correction based on temp., hop utilization and IBU. There is also search capability for any field. Nice thing is you can export a text file of any recipe, very convenient for posting online for others, example: Brew Name: 24 Black Silk Category/Type: Coffee Stout Date Brewed: 1-8-96 Date Bottled: 1-23 Original Gravity: 1.052 Final Gravity: 1.018 Batch Number: 25 Batch Size: 6 gal Alcohol Content: 4.6% Apparent Attenuation: 64% Grains/Malt Extract: 8 lb. Mountmellick stout kit 1/2 cup flaked barley 2 cups Quaker oats 1/2 cup black patent 1/4 cup chocolate malt Hops: 1/2 oz. Fuggles (60 min.) 1/2 oz. Fuggles (10 min.) Special Ingredients: 4 oz. unsweetened chocolate 1/4 lb. ground coffee of choice (Ghiradelli Chocolate Caramel this batch) Yeast: Yeast Lab A05 Irish Ale (starter) Brewing Procedure/Fermentation Log: Steeped grains and oats 30 min. at 140-145, then up to 155 for 10 min. Add extract & 0.5 oz Fuggles, boil 50 min. Add chocolate. With 5 min. to go add rest of Fuggles. At 60 min., kill heat, add coffee and let it steep 20 min. Pull coffee, cool, transfer to fermenter, top up with water. Pitched starter at 74x. Shook like hell. Bubbles in airlock within 12 hours. Comments: Used bottled water. Used nylon grain bags for grains, hops and coffee. Racked to secondary 1-16, uumm tastes very fine. Anyway, it works for me. I guess I could send it as an attachment to anyone who's interested (I'm asking for it aren't I, or ARE there only 4 of us Mac users). Brew Well FWIW, Darrin (I came up with a cute exclamation this time): "Lookin' back in front of me..." SRV Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 12:49:04 -0800 From: jlee at esd.ray.com (Jerry Lee) Subject: Re: mixed gases....continued Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu> says: (a whole bunch) Good answer Jeff...this one was worth printing and keeping...Thanx ===================================================== ~~~~~ / \ //\\\\\ / Jerry D. Lee, Jr. | SEPG Methods & Tools Chairman / {| ~ ~ |} / Raytheon ESD | E-Mail : jlee at eng.esd.ray.com \ | ^ | / 6380 Hollister Ave | Tel : 805-967-5511 ext2306 \ \ = / \ Goleta, CA 93117 | Fax : 805-964-9185 _/ - --/\-/\-- \ \ \/^\/ \+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=| Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 19:08:37 -0600 From: mike at datasync.com (Mike White) Subject: Mike's List of Homebrewing Suppliers-UPDATE I have repaired the problem some of you reported with my list of Mail-Order homebrewing suppliers. Now you should have no problem accessing the page. To view the list set your web browser to: http://www.datasync.com/~mike/cafe.html and look for the link to Mike's list of homebrewing suppliers. You won't be dissappointed. - ------------------------------------------------------------ Thought for the day: There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning.-J. Buffett - ------------------------------------------------------------ \\\|/// \\ - - // ( at at ) \ (_) / \ o / +----------------------oOOo-----oOOo-----+ | Mike White mike at datasync.com | | | +---------------------+--------Oooo------+ oooO ( ) ( ) ) / \ ( (_/ \_) Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 96 19:14:34 -0600 From: DEBOLT BRUCE <bdebolt at dow.com> Subject: Micro shopping in Denver Excuse the bandwidth. I'll be in Denver on March 5 and would like to know the best places to buy bottled micros. Especially interested in Doggie Style PA, Left Hand Brewing, Avery, and Deschutes (from Oregon - Batchelor Bitter, Cascade Golden). Will be staying in the Tech Center area south of downtown just off the interstate, but have a car so can drive further. TIA, Bruce DeBolt bdebolt at dow.com Return to table of contents