HOMEBREW Digest #2004 Sat 06 April 1996

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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  the carbonate saga continues (Gregory King)
  Sparge water level control (Ian Smith)
  Brewpubs (sorta) (Simonzip)
  Air & CO2 Dispersion (G. M. Elliott)
  Woodchuck cider clone (Milton)
  Missmarked Wyeast Package ("Houseman, David L           TR")
  Re: Scale Watcher (Russell Mast)
  Cabbage smell in sweet wort (Ian Smith)
  Specialty Grains. (Bucket99)
  Brewpubs and sealing wax! (Craig Stewart)
  orange flavour (Rob Lauriston)
  Thanks! (Joseph A. Clayton)
  We are all criminals to UPS!!!! (cisco)
  Re:Cheap-Ass Thermometer (John Mrazek)
  Flavor contribution of crystal by lovibond? (Brian K. Pickerill)
  Automagic scale machine (Dan Gerth)
  Beach Towel Lambic ("Sutton, Bob")
  Dry Hopping ("Toler, Duffy L.")
  Reculturing Belgian Tripels (Post_Mark)
  Re:Iron/Water Analysis (/O=PRDMSMAC/S=HUMPHREY/G=PATRICK/)
  a yeasty problem... (AleBrwer)
  Lime (A. J. deLange)
  hot break and immersion chillers... (wuerstl)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 04 Apr 1996 14:05:14 -0500 (EST) From: Gregory King <GKING at ARSERRC.Gov> Subject: the carbonate saga continues In HBD #2000 Ken Schwartz (KennyEddy at aol.com) wrote: [snip] >The problem is compounded by the fact that published water profiles may give >the carbonates under either "CO3" or "HCO3" labels. This may be based on an >assumption that at the pH of the "natural" water, there is a predominance of >one or the other. It may also be a default, blind "lumping" of all three >carbon species into one figure for "simplicity". In any case, it's only part >of the story. > >The "buffering" capacity ("alkalinity") of a given concentration of >*carbonate* (say from chalk) versus *bicarbonate* (say from baking soda) is >different, and it's the *buffering capacity* that we are really interested >in, since this is what counteracts the mash's ability to acidify to "optimum" >pH levels. If one profile gives "carbonate" and the next "bicarbonate", is >the author blindly "lumping" all the species under one label or is s/he >assuming a predominance of one over the other based on other water >characteristics? Or perhaps s/he is giving the equivalent (bi)carbonate >concentration which gives rise to the water's alkalinity? How should we deal >with the "carbonate", "bicarbonate", and "alkalinity" figures in working with >BreWater (or any other water adjustment plan)? [snip] As Ken says, it's really the alkalinity number that is of concern to us, since alkalinity is directly proportional to the buffering capacity of the water. Thus, if the analysis of your water (available from your local water utility) reports a total alkalinity number, then you don't even have to worry about the carbonate number. On the other hand, if your water analysis does not include a total alkalinity number, it's still possible to calculate the alkalinity without having to guess whether the carbonate number refers to carbonate or to bicarbonate. As an example I'll use the analysis Ray Louvier (rlouvier at ix.netcom.com) posted recently for his water: >Silica 12 Sulfate 14 Phosphate <.1 >Calcium 33 Chloride 28 >Magnesium 8.3 Carbonate 0 >Sodium 59 Bicarbonate 239 >Potassium 2.1 Nitrate <.05 The Total Alkalinity of Ray's water was reported as 196 ppm (as CaCO3). Suppose that this number had not been reported. The alkalinity can be derived from the other numbers by performing some mass-to-charge conversions, and then using the fact that the charges of all of the ions in the water must sum to 0 (as A.J. deLange pointed out in HBD #2002). The conversion factors used in the following calculation were defined for each ion as 100*q/MW, where q is the charge of the ion (e.g. +2 for Calcium, -2 for Sulfate, -1 for Chloride, etc.) and MW is the ion's molecular weight (e.g. 40.08 for Calcium, 96.06 for Sulfate, 35.45 for Chloride, etc.). The multipli- cation by 100 simply produces numbers that are nicer to work with. The calcu- lation follows: conversion charge ppm factor equivalents ---- ------ ----------- Calcium 33 x 4.990 = 164.7 Magnesium 8.3 x 8.229 = 68.3 Sodium 59 x 4.350 = 256.7 Potassium 2.1 x 2.558 = 5.4 Sulfate 14 x -2.082 = -29.1 Chloride 28 x -2.821 = -79.0 Nitrate .05 x -1.613 = -0.1 Phosphate .1 x -3.159 = -0.3 ----- +386.6 Sum Note that Carbonate and Bicarbonate have so far been omitted from the calcu- lation. (The other omission is Silica, which I always thought was simply sand or quartz. However, in Ray's water analysis Silica is listed with the positively-charged ions, so it must refer to something other than sand. As you will see, ignoring Silica in these calculations will result in little if any loss in accuracy.) The +386.6 charge equivalents must be balanced with either -386.6 charge equi- valents of Carbonate or Bicarbonate. The nice thing here is that it doesn't matter whether we choose to balance the charge with Carbonate or Bicarbonate, because the same ppm alkalinity number will be obtained in either case! In fact, the ppm alkalinity may be obtained directly from the unbalanced charge equivalents in a single step. Dividing the unbalanced charge equivalents by the conversion factor 1.998 yields: 386.6/1.998 = 193.5 ppm total alkalinity (as CaCO3) The 2.5 ppm difference between the calculated alkalinity value (193.5) and the number given in Ray's water analysis (196) could be due to round-off errors in the ions' ppm numbers, or due to my neglect of Silica. In any event, the dif- ference is pretty small. If the Total Alkalinity is not reported in your water analysis, you can calcu- late it by replacing all of the numbers in the "ppm" column above with the numbers from your own water analysis (the mass-to-charge conversion factors remain the same). If it turns out that the alkalinity of your water is too low, you can adjust it upward by adding baking soda (NaHCO3) and/or chalk (CaCO3): 1 gram NaHCO3 dissolved in 5 gallons (18.9 liters) of water will provide an additional 31.5 ppm alkalinity (as CaCO3) and 14.5 ppm sodium. 1 gram CaCO3 dissolved in 5 gallons of water will provide an additional 52.8 ppm alkalinity (as CaCO3) and 21.2 ppm calcium. (Note: If you use any acid other than CO2 to dissolve the chalk, the additional alkalinity will not be 52.8 exactly, but will fall somewhere between 26.4 ppm and 52.8 ppm.) If your alkalinity is too high, you may be able to reduce it by boiling the water. Under the right conditions a CaCO3 precipitate will form. The boiled water should then be separated from the precipitate. This process also reduces the Calcium in your water. If you want to quantify the reduction in alkalinity you'll need to perform three measurements: V_i = initial volume of water (in liters) V_f = final volume of water after boiling (in liters) p = mass of completely dried precipitate (in milligrams) If your initial alkalinity was A_i (in ppm CaCO3) then your final alkalinity A_f will be: A_f = ((A_i * V_i) - p) / V_f And if your initial Calcium concentration was C_i (in ppm) then your final calcium concentration C_f will be: C_f = ((C_i * V_i) - (0.4 * p)) / V_f >"We've been working on the basics, because, basically, we've been having >trouble with the basics." -- Bob Ojeda, LA Dodgers pitcher Yogi Berra couldn't have phrased this any better himself. Greg King gking at arserrc.gov Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 11:50:06 -0700 (MST) From: Ian Smith <rela!isrs at netcom.com> Subject: Sparge water level control Does anyone have a clever way to automatically control the level of sparge water above the mash/lauter tun grain bed ? It sure would be nice to have some kind of toilet ballcock or swamp cooler float valve thingie to control sparge water levels at a desired level (1" for instance). You could set up your sparge water vessel on the stove/burner at 170 F with a hose to the top of the lauter/mash tun. Open up the valve at the bottom of the tun and adjust the exit wort flow rate to the desired rate for a 45 minute or 1 hour sparge etc. The float valve thingie on top of the grain would do the rest ! Hands free sparging ! What a concept ! TIA Ian Smith isrs at rela.uucp.netcom.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 14:16:24 -0500 From: Simonzip at aol.com Subject: Brewpubs (sorta) Steve Gravel questioned in HBD#2002 why his local brewpubs beer might tasted bad. This got me wondering how many other brewpubs across the country (or outside) have opened up and are making and selling crummy beer? We had a brewpub open in my neighborhood (first one in the area, mega potential!) a few months ago, and they were only open for 3 days! I didn't go down the Tuesday they opened because I figured I'd go on the weekend. Anyway, everyone I know who did go said their beer was crummy (infected), they didn't serve any other kind (bottled or draft), you could only get soda in a can, the food was not to great etc. As it turns out the guy who bought and opened the place knew nothing about brewing (thought it would be a cool hobby). He supposedly laughed at the salary a good brewmaster wanted and was heard to say "hell, I'll make it myself". Someone from our local brew club was inside the place and said he saw a lot of plastic equipment, no evidence of a grain silo and the owner muttered something about "what a pain in the ass it was opening all those little cans". I've been stewing about this for a few months because I was so disappointed, there's a new owner now and they will reopen, but it's gonna be hard to get people back in I think. Luckily there is another brewpub under construction across the river and I have word these people know what their doing. Anyhow, I'm concerned that if there are many others out there looking to make a quick buck on this "new-brewpub-micro-homebrew-craze" that it's going to tarnish a legitimately decent growing segment of our "entertainment-food service" industry. Anyone else know of similar situations out there and have the same concerns I do? Darrin (Proprietor of Simpleton's Cosmic Brewery) The Kegs are coming!!!!! Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 14:20:45 -0500 From: ge083 at cleveland.Freenet.Edu (G. M. Elliott) Subject: Air & CO2 Dispersion Greetings all: really appreciate all the discussion on FWH = I will stay tuned! I have two questions for anyone who may be able to help-- I am going to start aerating my wort with an aquarium air pump and a sintered SS air stone, but how long should I run the air pump? I'm thinking 30-45 mins. Will that do it? Also I would like to use the stone to quickly carbonate my kegs, has anyone had any luck doing this and is it worth the trouble. Do you just stick a piece of tubing to the gas in tube that is in the corny keg and then connect the flex tubing to the stone and let it sit near the bottom of the keg? Any and all help is appreciated. Regards, Mark Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 02 Apr 1996 13:11:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Milton <PMCOOK at Gems.VCU.EDU> Subject: Woodchuck cider clone I'll toss this out to the collective: Does anyone know of a recipe mimicking the wookchuck cider? I am an extract brewer, so it might have to be kept simple. Here is one that I have heard, but question: 2# extra light malt extract 3 gallon apple juice (unpasturized) Don't know what kind of yeast. Might try an ale yeast to add some of the flavor. Who knows? Private e-mail is ok. TIA Milt Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 04 Apr 96 15:00:00 EST From: "Houseman, David L TR" <DLH1 at trpo3.tr.unisys.com> Subject: Missmarked Wyeast Package A dubbel currently fermenting using Wyeast Belgian Ale yeast, or so was marked on the package (just a black pen mark on the package) smells and tastes like a yummy Dunkelweizen. Lots of the typical phenolics we'd expect from S. delbrucki. This is the second time this has happend to me; the first I earlier in my brewing career so I was ready to accept contamination on my part. This I know not to be the case this time (probably wasn't the first time either). Has anyone else had a problem with the smack-packs being incorrectly marked? Does Wyeast do this or ship in bulk to the homebrew stores who mark them before putting them on the shelf? Dave Houseman (dlh1 at trpo3.tredydev.unisys.com) Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 17:04:30 -0600 From: Russell Mast <rmast at fnbc.com> Subject: Re: Scale Watcher Your article sent to homebrew is being rejected. The reason: --Contains line(s) greater than 80 chars in length -- AAAARRRRGGGHHHH!!!! Ahem. Thank you. Sigh.... John Palmer, Metallurgist, writes : > (2) A complete and utter scam. > > There is absolutely no scientific basis for a flucuating electromagnetic field > around a metal pipe to affect ions in solution in what can be defined as a > Faraday Cage. Unless it makes the lights dim in the house, the water will never > know its there. That's what a lot of physicists said for years. However, it has recently been shown to work - for specific pipe diameters and frequencies. I read a report on it in last week's Economist. I'll try to bring in a copy soon so I can quote the researchers who discovered that, in fact, it does work. > PS. Precipitated calcium salts is the whole problem of scale! If they want to > sell their device, they should have said that it PREVENTS precipitation. Not exactly. The idea is that scale precipitates and crystallizes or otherwise 'clumps up' and sticks to itself, rather than to the sides. Also, you put the device right at your water mains, to cause the precipitation there so it won't cling further downstream. The mechanisms of the effects, actually, are not known. I recall something about magnetics and crystal structure, but it's all merely conjecture at this point. One thing for sure, is that these things need to be custom-tuned for specific pipe diameters and flow rates, and might not necessarily work in all instances. More importantly, the water passed through one of these will be almost identical to regular water - it will, in fact, have a tiny fraction MORE of those scale-producing ions. But, think about it a moment. How fast does scale buildup occur? A few teaspoons of scale per million gallons, over the course of a decade or three. That's not a heck of a lot. This device is irrelevant to brewing. But, it's not a complete scam. (Though they might be overstating it's utility in their ads.) -R Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 16:19:31 -0700 (MST) From: Ian Smith <rela!isrs at netcom.com> Subject: Cabbage smell in sweet wort I recently made an IPA with: 12 lbs Breiss 1 lbs Munich Malt 1/4lbs Crystal I mashed at 152 F for 90 minutes. Sparged for 45 minutes FWH with 1 oz Goldings 60 minute boil with 1 oz Chinook 30 minute boil with 1 oz Chinook 0 minute with 1 oz Goldings After cooling with a counterflow heat exchanger to 68 F into my carboy I noticed a cabbage aroma coming out of the carboy. The wort tasted OK - a bit hoppy as you can imagine but no cabbage taste. Does anyone know what this is (Hot side aeration, DMS, bugs in my mash ?) Cheers Ian Smith isrs at rela.uucp.netcom.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 21:21:10 -0500 From: Bucket99 at aol.com Subject: Specialty Grains. Hello all, Being an extract brewer I have a question for the collective wisdom of HDB to ponder. With the addition of specialty grains to an extract recipe I have seen posted, and read via Papazians book (The new Joy of Home Brewing) that you can: A. Steep the grains until the water boils, then remove them. B. Steep the grains for an extended period, 30 minutes? My questions are: 1. Would tannins added from the specialty grains be altered by boiling? Especially during the extended boil necessary for hop utilization? IF you add the grains BEFORE the boil period? 2. Would it be better to cool the wort to (About 160 F) and do the steep AFTER the boil? (Anyone have any idea what this will do to the non-fermentable fractions of the malt?) DISCLAIMER: I realize that with the addition of anything AFTER the boil, (Which the wort is sterilized) you are taking a chance in contamination of the wort. But, IF you hold the temp to 160 to 170? Then the wort should still remain Pasteurized? Please reply here, for the collective, Not in E-Mail. Thanks in advance for the bandwidth. Paul McFarland BREWING IN THE HEART OF THE COUNTRY!!! Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 11:36:39 -0400 (AST) From: Craig Stewart <foghorn1 at darwin.nbnet.nb.ca> Subject: Brewpubs and sealing wax! Ladies and Gentlebrewers! You can't seem to get rid of me, can you! <grin> Quick question on the subject of brewpubs (beating a dead horse): ARE THERE ANY IN NEW BRUNSWICK CANADA!? Enough of that. Father dearest wants me to brew him up a batch of lager for him. His favorite of all times is Moosehead (aka Moosepiss) Premium Dry. For those who don't know the brand, it has no hop flavor/aroma that I can tell, very lackluster body, and a REAL kick on the alcohol flavor. Actual, the majority of flavor comes from alcohol. Personaly, I can't stand this type of beer, so can anyone sugest something. I'm thinking of using ~3 - 4 lbs of light malt extract, some rice, and a few hops to try it. God knows that I won't be drinking any of the swill. Unrelated topic: HOT DAMN IT'S SPRING! The first butterfly of the season just flew past my open window! Ah, the smell of thawing mud... Just makes me want to brew! <grin> Actualy, it doesn't take much to make me want to brew! Thanks. TTYL. - -- ************************************************************************** Non-Disclaimer: Any resemblance between the above views and those of my employer, my terminal, or the view out my window are purely coincidental. Any resemblance between the above and my own views is non-deterministic. The question of the existence of views in the absence of anyone to hold them is left as an exercise for the reader. The question of the existence of the reader is left as an exercise for the second god coefficient. (A discussion of non-orthogonal, non-integral polytheism is beyond the scope of this article.) ************************************************************************** flames to /dev/null Craig Stewart foghorn1 at mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 5 Apr 96 03:38 PST From: robtrish at mindlink.bc.ca (Rob Lauriston) Subject: orange flavour Talking about Bart's orange peel / corriander experiment, Al K. wrote about orange flavour in wits: ... Incidentally, I think >that it is the yeast that gives Celis White its orange-like flavour. I >made a clone in which I did not add any orange peel at all and used the >Wyeast Belgian Witbier (#3944) and got a strong orange aroma and flavour. I haven't used #3944 yet and only tasted the Texas product once, so I don't dispute this possibility. OTOH, I've made light coloured wheat beers with corriander (split seeds) and _no_ orange peel with various Wyeasts (1028, 1056, 1098) and have gotten a strong orange aroma. With the strong aroma there, I'm not positive about the taste per se, but my taste panels <g> often commented, "No orange at all? Huh! Sure tastes like it!" Since I'm not huge on style authenticity, I skip the cure-a-sow. If my pig were sick, it would be another story... - -- Rob Lauriston in the B.C. interior (does B.C. have an exterior?) Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 5 Apr 1996 10:14:01 -0500 From: ak753 at detroit.freenet.org (Joseph A. Clayton) Subject: Thanks! G'Day Folks, I just wanted to come out of lurk mode and say keep up the good work on the water thread. Sooner or later I may even begin to understand all of this stuff. As a new all-grainer I've been scratching my head about water treatments for a couple of months. My brew season is about to begin so the timing couldn't be better. However, the best information to date has been not to put your hand near the mouth of a carboy on April 1! That'll be the first thing to go on my calendar next year ;-). Cheers, Joe Clayton Farmington Hills, MI USA ak753 at detroit.freenet.org (preferred) claytonj at cc.tacom.army.mil (if you must) Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 5 Apr 1996 08:23:31 -0600 (CST) From: cisco at tabasco.ccit.arizona.edu Subject: We are all criminals to UPS!!!! I just got back from UPS shipping two entries to the AHA nationals and was very surprised by a new policy at UPS. ALL PACKAGES WILL BE OPENED AND INSPECTED. Their excuse was that they were trying to keep down the number of damaged packages and claims against them. I asked if they were receiving a lot of claims and was told no, but they wanted to keep them down (this is bullshit!). My description of the contents was: Yeast Propagation Samples. I used a wine box with the dividers inside and stuffed each divider cell with tons of newspaper and even had an extra piece of cardboard on the top and bottom. I was very lucky that all she felt was the newspaper and none of my bottles. She then said it looked OK and she resealed my box. She also told me not to bother bringing sealed packages anymore - they would seal them after they had inspected the contents. (Are we living in a police state now and no one bothered to tell us?) I noticed another customer that had a large package that was nothing more than clothes and they actually rifled through ALL their clothes looking for something! I called the national UPS office (1-800-742-5877) and asked them if this was a new policy nationally and they said it was. They said that they are checking to see if the packing meets their rules and that they are also looking for anything illegal. I asked them when did they become an authorized police force that treats everyone as a criminal. I got a very polite bullshit answer. So I told them that that I would not do any business with a company that treats their all customers as criminals and I would be taking my business elsewhere. Everyone should call UPS and file a formal complaint about this 'police state' tactic. Don't bother complaining to the customer service representative that answers the phone, ask to speak to their supervisor to file a formal compliant. The only way I see around this is: 1. Seal a box within a box with lots of popcorn styrofoam. But theywill probably open the inner box also. OR 2. Take your business to one of those Mailbox Etc places and pay the extra money to have them ship it for you. UPS told me that they can't force these type of businesses to follow their new procedures so you're safe for now. Be carefull out there - big brother UPS is watching! John 'Cisco' Francisco Senior Applications Systems Analyst University of Arizona Office: (520) 621-6727 Pager: (520) 218-0925 http://aruba.ccit.arizona.edu/~cisco/ Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 05 Apr 1996 07:54:14 -0800 From: John Mrazek <harvard at cycor.ca> Subject: Re:Cheap-Ass Thermometer It seems like a lot of work just to have a thermometer.But having a nice chart so you can convert measured voltage into a temperature reading must be cool. On the other hand in Brewing Techniques (March - April 1994) Mr. Robert McIlvaine has published a article on temperature measuring using sensors made for such use. They are: 1. Very inexpensive 2. Laser trimmed for accuracy 3. Accuracy of .1 Degree Fahrenheit 4. Your choice of either Celsius or Fahrenheit sensor 5. It will direct read to your Voltmeter 6. To do that you only need a 9 Volt Battery and a 2K resistor. These sensors are made by National Semiconductors. LM34 or LM35. In the same article he describes a complete project how to build your own Voltmeter and the sensors assembly. In other subsequent articles he also gets to computer controlled brewing etc. It was the best info i got to be able to make a fully computerized mashing process. Regards, John Mrazek E-mail- harvard at cycor.ca Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 05 Apr 1996 11:03:54 -0600 From: 00bkpickeril at bsuvc.bsu.edu (Brian K. Pickerill) Subject: Flavor contribution of crystal by lovibond? Dear Beer Gurus, I've been using 10 lovibond crystal malt in most all my recent brews. I persuaded our club president to order a 50lb bag of Shrier crystal last fall when there was a very good sale price, so we had, er, quite a supply. Anyhow, at the time we ordered, I thought (assumed!) that the flavor contribution would be similar to darker crystals, and that just the color (lovibond) would be lighter. Since it's always a problem trying to get lighter colored brews, especially when doing extract batches, I thought that 10L would be a good idea. Based on experience and my personal taste preference (FWIW) I'd have to say that I don't recommend it. Of course this would be the case since we ordered 50lbs. :) My question for the "collective" is, how much _flavor_ difference should there be between different lovibonds of crystal/carmel malts? I don't seem to taste as much of what I thought was crystal flavor, even when using 2x as much, and I can't recall ever having read about this. Thanks, - --Brian Pickerill, Newsletter Editor, Muncie Malt Mashers, Muncie, IN Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 05 Apr 1996 09:26:59 -0700 From: Dan Gerth <dgerth at lanl.gov> Subject: Automagic scale machine >Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 17:00:03 -0600 >From: Russell Mast <rmast at fnbc.com> >Subject: Spotted some Owls. >> From: asteinm at pipeline.com (Art Steinmetz) >> Subject: "Scale Watcher" water treatment >> >> I got a brochure the other day for a gizmo called "Scale Watcher." You >> wrap some kind of induction coil around a cold water pipe and "modern >> integrated circuitry" sends out "modulated frequencies" to precipate >> dissolved calcium ions into "insoluble calcium salts which move in a >> suspended form in water." The idea is that the precipitated particles >> won't cause scale in pipes and such. > >Holy cow, they're already marketing this thing? I read about this in the >Economist a few weeks ago. It's pretty dubious technology, however, it has >been shown to work under certain conditions. The study they cited indicated >that you needed to know the pipe diameter and flow rate beforehand. Also, >the mechanism by which it prevents scale buildup is not understood. > Boy, I thought this thing died about 20 years ago.....When I was fresh out of school and working in the water treatment industry we used to keep a file of all these gizmos. This one was advertised as "producing mollified electrons which prevent the scale reaction from occuring". These things pop up all the time, and they have NEVER been scientifically proven to work (cited studies or not). Stick with real chemistry, it makes the best beer. P.S. If anyone ever finds out what a "mollified electron" is, let me know - I've been trying to find out for a while! Brew on, Dan <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Dan Gerth, Ph.D. MS G740, CST-9 Trace Inorganic Analysis "Semper Ubi Sub Ubi!" - anon Los Alamos National Laboratory Los Alamos, NM 87545 phone: (505)-665-0403 FAX: (505)-665-4737 email: dgerth at lanl.gov <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 04 Apr 1996 22:48:00 -0800 From: "Sutton, Bob" <bob.sutton at fluordaniel.com> Subject: Beach Towel Lambic Someone Somewhere Stipulated: > I keep my 6 gallon carboy in a plastic (metal would work) tub, with >about 3 to 6 inches of water in the bottom. A good sized towel wrapped >around the carboy and touching the water will act like a wick, sucking >up the water, and cooling the wort by evaporation. That kept the wort >temp down to about 68. I tried this ploy last summer, after a day or two the towel reeked of mildew. Having wild flora (or is it fauna) in close proximity to the brew gave me pause. Perhaps I had the makings of a Lambic. The next time I added a cup of bleach to the water to retard the onslaught of scumdoochies. This seemed to work ok, EXCEPT now I was worried that the bleach was just a little to close to the brew. However since it was just hypochlorite (versus hyperchlorite) I felt the risk was minimal. One caution for those of you contemplating this procedure at home... Use a white towel (unless you're into tie-dye (WHOOPS there it is). My approach has now advanced to where I soak the towel in cheap grain alcohol. Whatever is left after the run is mixed with my spent grains and recycled to the dog. This has paid handsome benefits as "ole Jasper" is an enthusiastic brewing partner. Again, be careful not to use a plaid towel. Bob Fruit Fly Brewhaus Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 05 Apr 96 14:12:00 PST From: "Toler, Duffy L." <TOLERD at cdnet.cod.edu> Subject: Dry Hopping I am interested in dry-hopping a batch, perhaps an ESB, but I know nothing of the procedure. My limited understanding is that the quality/quanitity of the hop aroma in the finished brew will be improved/increased. I am planning on using plugs in my glass secondary, but I guess my main concerns are: 1. What amount of hops to add? (The amount of aroma hops in the receipe???) 2. Does dry-hopping replace all the aroma hops I would normally use in the kettle on brew day? 3. Do you need to "sanitize" the hops before you add them, and if so, how? Thanks in advance for any insight into this technique. Duffy Toler Sugar Grove, IL Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 5 Apr 1996 16:22:14 -0500 From: Post_Mark at hq.navsea.navy.mil Subject: Reculturing Belgian Tripels My wife and I recently got back from Belgium and brought back a bottle of Westmalle Tripel, Westvleteren ABT 12 and Rochefort 10. I would like to brew a tripel using yeast from one of these beers if possible. Does anyone know if any or all of these beers use the same bottling yeast as they use for fermentation? If so, has anybody had any luck reculturing and using? And while I'm asking- same questions for Saison Dupont. Thanks a lot- Mark Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 05 Apr 1996 14:31:24 -0500 From: /O=PRDMSMAC/S=HUMPHREY/G=PATRICK/ at x400.pprd.abbott.com Subject: Re:Iron/Water Analysis I want to thank A.J. deLange and Kenny Eddy for their replies about iron in my water. I have been out of town so I couldn't thank them sooner. I was just wondering, are others concerned about iron levels in their water? It seems to me that it could have just as much affect on the quality of our beer as the suphate/carbonate levels being discussed in the digest lately. I checked with my local sanitary district and they want to charge me $10 for each ion that I want determined! ...and they can't analyze for Carbonate levels! What good will that do me? Does anyone living in the northern suburbs of Chicago know where I can have a water analysis done without costing me an arm and a leg? If someone would be so generous, would they mind sending a sample in for me? I realize that would be asking alot but I think about $60 for a water analysis is way out of line and I could always pay off in homebrew. Thanks, Pat Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 5 Apr 1996 21:57:01 -0500 From: AleBrwer at aol.com Subject: a yeasty problem... Hi all, I have been having problems with my finishing gravity being to high. I suspect that I am using the wrong yeast or perhaps my brew is fermenting at improper temps. Mabye someone can help... here goes...4 lbs. Alexander Light Extract 1.5 lbs. Eng Light Extract ( dry ) 8 ozs. Crystal 40L 8 ozs. Munich 8 ozs. Blk Roasted Barley 4 ozs. Choc. Malt Wyeast #1056 1 oz Perle at 60 min 1 oz Cascade at 30 min 1 oz Brewers Gold at 0 min Est. starting gravity 1.045 actual 1.048 Est. finishing gravity 1.016 actual 1.028 It fermented at between 70-75 deg for 2+ weeks. Thanks for your time.. Alebrwer Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 5 Apr 1996 23:39:40 -0500 From: ajdel at interramp.com (A. J. deLange) Subject: Lime Steve Alexander asked if I would elaborate on the calculations necessary to compute lime additions for decarbonation of water. First off, lime comes in two forms: quick, CaO, and slaked (hydrated) Ca(OH)2. The latter results when the former is added to water: CaO + H2O --> Ca(OH)2 Therefore, I will assume slaked lime in what follows. Carbonate waters contain three species, carbonic (H2CO3), bicarbonate (HCO3-) and carbonate (CO3--). Lime reacts with carbonic by H2CO3 + Ca(OH)2 --> CaCO3 + 2H2O Thus one mole of slaked lime is required for each mole of carbonic. Bicarbonate reacts with slaked lime by Ca++ + 2HCO3- + Ca(OH)2 --> 2CaCO3 + 2H2O Thus one mole of lime removes 2 moles of bicarbonate and one mole of calcium. Thus to calculate the amount of lime to be added, one needs to know the moles of carbonic and of calcium (if all the hardness is temporary) or the alkalinity if the water has some permanent hardness. In a commercial brewery, this information is available as the water is analyzed prior to treatment. The analysis is quite simple to do. For carbonic, a 100 mL sample is titrated with 0.1N NaOH until pH 8.4 is reached. The carbonic, expressed in milliequivalents/L (mEq/L) is the number of millilitres of the lye solution necessary to bring about this pH change. Alkalinity is measured by titrating a 100 mL sample with 0.1N acid to pH 4.3. The alkalinity, in mEq/L, is the number of mL of acid required. It is a little trickier if the pH of the starting water is greater than about 8.3. For calcium, 100 mL of the sample water is treated with a suitable indicator and then titrated with a chelating agent (e.g. EGTA) of accurately known concentration until the indicator shows that the all the calcium has been sequestered. The mEq/L calcium is proportional to the amount of chlating agent required to bring about this cahnge. The amount of lime, in mEq/L of water to be treated is twice the mEq/L carbonic (twice because the titration measures only the amount of base to half convert carbonic i.e. to convert it to bicarbonate, not carbonate, which requires as much base again) plus the mEq/L calcium. The required weight of lime is then obtained by multiplying the mEq/L by equivalent weight of lime, 28 if CaO is being used and 37 in the case of slaked lime. The reason that this gets tricky is that not all the chalk formed in the reactions given above actually precipitates because chalk is soluble in water to some extent which depends on a lot of variables, for example the concentrations of other ions. Furthermore, errors will be made in the measurements of calcium and carbonic concentrations so that the calculated lime additions will be off. Insufficient lime addition results in precipitation of less bicarbonate than the optimum with the result that the alkalinity of the treated water will be higher than desired. Conversely, extra lime will result in un-consumed (OH)- ions in the water which will also result in increased alkalinity. DeClerk recomends three test batches, one with the calculated amount of lime and one each with, respectively, 10% more and 10% less than the calculated amounts. After treatment, the alkalinity is checked and the addition which gave the best alkalinity reduction is then scaled up for treatment of the brewing water volume. Thus to do this right the brewer must be able to measure carbonic, calcium and alkalinity. While none of these is particularly hard to do and while guys like me actually get a kick out of doing such things, most homebrewers would find it too troublesome and use distilled or otherwise softened water. A.J. deLange Numquam in dubio, saepe in errore! ajdel at interramp.com Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 05 Apr 96 23:36:38 EST From: wuerstl at lfs.loral.com Subject: hot break and immersion chillers... From: Matthew A. Wuerstl Subject: hot break and immersion chillers... Hello gang, Some observations from last nights wort canning proceedings. If I recall, a while back (maybe late last year?) there was some discussion about using an immersion chiller in the brew kettle without racking off the hot break (or maybe I remember this from some other source.) Anyway, one question I saw and never read an answer to, was will the coagulated proteins in the hot break go back into solution if you chill the wort this way. Here's what I observed last night. I boiled up a 2 gallon starter batch of wort to can and use for yeast starters. I chilled in my brew kettle and left behind a good amount of what appeared to be hot break, spent hops and a little cold break as I would see with any normal batch. Now here's the interesting part, when I canned the cooled wort it was a little hazy. After boiling the canned wort for 30 minutes in a water bath, I removed the jars and noticed that the wort was crystal clear, with big clumps of protein on the bottom of each jar. The jars were left to cool and seal on the counter overnight. When I checked them this morning, the wort had become cloudy again and the protein sediment looked more loosely concentrated and was tending to float apart. From this observation, I would say that when I chill in the kettle on top of the hot break a portion of it is going to go back into solution as the wort cools (even without stirring to speed the cooling process). Therefore, I would say that it is probably a good idea to rack the hot wort (gently of course) off of the hot break before cooling with an immersion chiller. Does this sound reasonable? Has anyone done more scientific experiments on something like this? Any comments? Hoppy Brewing, Matt ############################################################### ## Matthew A. Wuerstl wuerstl at lfs.loral.com - 609-485-7713 ## ## LORAL Federal Systems - ATC Division - Dept TS1 ## ############################################################### Return to table of contents

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