Homebrew Digest Thursday, 23 May 1996 Number 2044

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        Shawn Steele, Digest Janitor
        Thanks to Rob Gardner for making the digest happen!

  carbonation in keg (fwd)  (Paul - McDonald)
  Surplus Center - wrong phone number (Marty Tippin)
  immersion chiller summary (Gregory King)
  barrier bags (Meisner Wallie MSM GRPP US)
  Raspberry / Fruit Tips? (Marty Tippin)
  Who's a subscriber/Responder/Pub time (pbabcock.ford at e-mail.com)
  rye, counterpressure bottle fillers ("Bryan L. Gros")
  A new pre-chiller idea (Mike Spinelli)
  Re: calibrating Hunter temperature controller (Jim Dipalma)
  Yeast question... (Robert Servranckx)
  Vacuum Sealers (Derek Lyons)
  Milling (Jim Liddil)
  1996 Buzz-Off 2nd Posting ("Houseman, David L           TR")
  1996 Small & Tiny results (at last!) (Spencer W Thomas)
  re:sheperd neame (Marc Hugentobler)
  RE: Gas leaks (John Wilkinson)
  More Foam Finds (KennyEddy at aol.com)
  Attenuation or Loss of Mass? (Michael Higuchi)
  Info for Newbies ("ADAIR, BENTON E.")
  Brewery wish list ("William G. Rucker")
  Beer in Chicago (Mark Worwetz)
  Small Bottles (Chuck Volle)
  Ants in the Air-Lock (krkoupa at ccmail2.pacbell.com)
  Hmmmmm! Grain Mills? (Scott Abene)
  HELP: Water filters?  Water treatment? (Bill Press)
  The Move (Shawn Steele)
  1996 Mazer Cup ("Daniel S. McConnell")
  Keeping the hose on your chiller ("PAUL K. ANDERSON")
  AHA NHC Bashing (Fred Hardy)
  Moving! ("Nathan L. Kanous II")
  Coopers Sparkling Ale (Andy Walsh)
  Duvel clones (Andy Walsh)
  hydrometer readings (texan at mindspring.com (James and Tamara Williams))
  tea.. serious brew,  heart of the hops (Tim Wort)
  Re: Lagering refrigerator (cerevis at mcs.net (Christopher Weirup))
  Keg Beer lines and Carbonator (apmcgregor at nmaa.org (Art McGregor))

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Paul - McDonald <pzm at rfc.comm.harris.com> Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 07:54:07 -0400 (EDT) Subject: carbonation in keg (fwd) I have just built a counter flow bottle filler and I was wondering if anyone had any info on how much carbonation I should have so that the beer comes out ok in the bottle. I have a gauge that fits my keg so I can control the amount of co2 build up. (I was planning on conditioning the beer naturally.) Thanks- paul mcdonald Return to table of contents
From: Marty Tippin <martyt at sky.net> Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 07:05:12 -0500 Subject: Surplus Center - wrong phone number I mistyped the phone number for Surplus Center in my posting yesterday - the correct number is: (800) 488-3407 - -Marty martyt at sky.net http://www.sky.net/~martyt - Marty's Homebrew Gadgets Page Return to table of contents
From: Gregory King <GKING at arserrc.gov> Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 15:30:02 -0500 (EST) Subject: immersion chiller summary Hello HBDfolk, Here is a summary of the replies I received regarding a question I posted last week about the optimal dimensions for an immersion chiller. The original question was: >I am going to build an immersion chiller, and would like to get your ideas >(or hard data if you have it) regarding the best size of copper tubing to >use (apologies if this is a topic that has been beaten to death at an earlier >time). > >The 3/8" O.D. and 1/2" O.D. tubing seem to be popular choices. I'm considering >the narrower 1/4" O.D. tubing because the surface-to-volume ratio is greater >for narrower tubing than it is for wider tubing (for a given volume of water). >My thinking is that in the narrower tubing more of the water will come into >contact with the hot copper surface, and more heat will be transferred to the >water. > >Of course theory is one thing, and reality is sometimes another thing. How do >your real-life experiences correspond with this idea? I mentioned only tubing diameter, and several respondents brought up two other important factors: length and throughput. There is a much higher resistance to flow in the 1/4" tubing compared to 3/8" or 1/2" tubing, so a higher pressure is required to achieve the same throughput in 1/4" tubing. This means all the fittings (i.e. hose clamps, etc.) have to withstand this higher pressure also. To get the same volume of water flowing through chillers with different tubing diameters, the chiller with the narrower tubing must be longer. The relationship is inversely proportional to the square of the tubing diameters. For example, 3/8" tubing is 1.5 times wider than 1/4" tubing, so the length of the 1/4" tubing chiller must be 1.5*1.5 = 2.25 times longer than the 3/8" tubing chiller to hold the same volume of water. In constructing an immersion chiller, the tubing is most commonly wound around a cylindrical object like a paint can to produce a coil that looks like a bed spring. Three alternatives to this configuration were mentioned: 1) Wind the tubing into a tighter coil (2.5" diameter) to produce a chilling "wand". The wort is then manually stirred with the wand. 2) Wind the tubing into a tighter inner coil surrounded by an outer coil. 3) Wind the tubing into a 2-dimensional spiral, and then rig it so that the chiller is suspended (flat) about 1-2" from the top of the hot wort. This arrangement apparently creates a convection current within the wort, thus reducing (or eliminating) the need to stir/agitate the wort while it's cooling. Recap: The consensus was that a good immersion chiller can be made from 1/4", 3/8" or 1/2" tubing, keeping in mind that chillers made with narrower tubing should be longer than those made with wider tubing, with fittings that must be able to withstand higher pressures. Also, when comparing two chillers with equal diameter tubing but different lengths, the longer chiller is better. Thanks to all who replied! Greg King gking at arserrc.gov Return to table of contents
From: Meisner Wallie MSM GRPP US <wallie.meisner at usgr.mhs.ciba.com> Date: 22 May 1996 12:51:00 +0000 Subject: barrier bags My 2 cents on O2 barrier bags...Barrier bags are typically more than one layer either colaminated or coextruded. They ALL transmit oxygen, CO2, etc, but some at slower rates than others. "Baggie" (even heat-sealed) are relative window screens when it comes to keeping gasses in or out. The inside of barrier bags is typically heat-sealable and the outside not. Because of this you can seal some barrier bags very well with an iron (yes, like you iron clothes with). Don't try it with a "baggie" though, these are one material (polyethylene) all the way through and will seal instantly TO your iron. I've been sealing bags that have a zipper about 5/8" down from the top so I can seal the bag hermetically with an iron above the zipper and it stays sealed 'rill I tear the seal off. Then I still have the zipper to open and close the bag with. Some zippers do have pin-holes at the ends but these zippers are bonded tight all the way to the ends with no pin-holes. If anyone's interested in trying out "my" bags, send me a SASE and I'll send you a couple. Wallie Meisner Packaging Engineer (believe it or not) Greensboro, NC **************************************************************************** ***************************************************************** You've GOT to check out Pat Babcock's Homebrew Flea Market - it's open right now **************************************************************************** ******************************************************************* Return to table of contents
From: Marty Tippin <martyt at sky.net> Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 07:55:14 -0500 Subject: Raspberry / Fruit Tips? I'm planning a 10 gallon batch of wheat beer this weekend and want to make a raspberry wheat out of half of it (I use 2 fermenters...) Looking for tips on how much fruit to use and how best to use it: - - I've heard 1 lb per gal? More? less? - - Add to the Primary or Secondary? How long? - - Steep or just dump 'em in? How to steep? - - Frozen, Fresh, Concentrate or Extract? E-mail is fine; I'll post a summary. Thanks! - -Marty martyt at sky.net http://www.sky.net/~martyt - Marty's Homebrew Gadgets page Return to table of contents
From: pbabcock.ford at e-mail.com Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 08:55:04 EDT Subject: Who's a subscriber/Responder/Pub time Pat Babcock Internet: pbabcock.ford at e-mail.com Bronco Plant Vehicle Team - Body Construction Assembly Engineer Subject: Who's a subscriber/Responder/Pub time Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager... > On precluding posts from "non-subscribers"... Who is a subscriber and who's not?!? Fess up, now! I guess the fifty or so people to whom I distribute the digest through our company e-mail system aren't subscribers, hey? Our situation is not unique, either. My vote? Leave well enough alone. When we try to act like the US governmnet and legislate away a problem, we usually find we've created ten more in its place. > On the automagical responder... Uh, oh! What happened to my ability to cancel a post? Hope to see this puppy come back... > On the time of publication of the HBD... I know it's yet early, but will the Digest always publish at noon (eastern)? My coffee is really cold by then... (I know: Wah, wah, wah...) See ya! Pat Babcock Canton, MI pbabcock at oeonline.com http://oeonline.com/~pbabcock/brew.html Return to table of contents
From: "Bryan L. Gros" <grosbl at ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu> Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 09:10:33 -0500 (CDT) Subject: rye, counterpressure bottle fillers First of all, Russell Mast says: >> I suggest that the HBD software be modified so that non-subscribers >> cannot post. > >I was thinking the same thing. It's one thing when someone issues a >half-shameless plug for their homebrew store or brewing-related product, >but totally non-beer related bullshit, particuarlarly a long SPAM like >this, is way outta line I vote for this too. Limiting who can post in this way doesn't prohibit other people from downloading and reading the HBD. Hell, it's posted to rec.crafts.brewing every day. On a similar note: >From: "Decker, Robin E." <robind at rmtgvl.rmtinc.com>: >This ties in neatly (IMO) with the subject of disclaimers.....KNOCK IT OFF >ALREADY!!! Its the silliest thing I've ever seen...a recommendation, or a >glowing report from a customer is just that. I agree. - ------------ About rye, is the stuff generally sold in brewing supply stores malted rye or unmalted rye? Or does it depend? I assume rye flakes are unmalted. - ----------- Now my real question. Does anyone have any comments about the Zymurgy road test of counterpressure bottle fillers from last summer or so? Anyone want to really recommend the one they use? One thing I didn't understand in the article is the air reports. They expressed air as a percentage, + or -, of the baseline, which was 2 ml. The "worst case" bottle filler was just filling a bottle from the picnic tap, which causes a lot of CO2 loss but also adds air. The test results on the beer were -30% air. Why minus? I read this as 30% less air than the 2 ml. baseline. This can't be right. Although I don't know the numbers, I have to assume that minus is bad and plus is good. The expensive fillers all come out on the plus side. The one filler I've seen in operation, a homeade job, had a connector on the pressure release valve so tubing could be attached. You will almost always get some foaming as you fill a bottle, so you might want to let some of that foam escape through the pressure release valve and into a jar or bucket. Will all the fillers described allow this, or will you get into trouble if more than just gas escapes through the pressure release valve. Based on the article, I'm leaning towards the cheaper Benjamin Machine product or the Braukunst. - Bryan grosbl at ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu Nashville, TN Return to table of contents
From: Mike Spinelli <paa3983 at dpsc.dla.mil> Date: Wed, 22 May 96 10:04:31 edt Subject: A new pre-chiller idea HBDers, With the weather heating up 'round here, I'm breaking out the small pre-chiller copper coil which I usually submerge in ice water _prior _ to the water going into the large chiller inside the keg. In the past summers, this technique worked pretty well. Well the other day as I was chillin' down a brew I got to thinkin'. Last year I came up with this insane idea of making a micro-chiller out of 1/4" copper to fit inside a 2000ml Ehrlemeyer flask to chill down my starter worts. It's about the size of a Philly cheesesteak (local plug). I attached a compression type 1/2" hose barb to the chiller ends so I could hook it up to a hose attached to my kitchen sink. I tried it once and that was it. Too long to cool and too much trouble. I now just boil the 1/2 gallon starter wort in a 5 gallon pot and cool in the sink. So here's my idea to make good use of that micro-chiller. purge all the water out of it, stick it in a large plastic cup or mug, fill mug with water, then stick in freezer. the water will freeze with the chiller submerged. When you're ready to chill down, just take the micro-chiller out of the freezer and hook it up to the main chiller. All the water passing thru should be close to freezing. It eliminates the bulky pre-chiller and the use of tons of ice. I'm off to Bavaria for 3 weeks on the 22nd, so when I get back and I still have some brain cells left and I _still_ want to look at beer, I'll give the micro-chiller a test run. Mike in Cherry Hill NJ Return to table of contents
From: Jim Dipalma <dipalma at sky.com> Date: Wed, 22 May 96 10:21:21 EDT Subject: Re: calibrating Hunter temperature controller Hi All, In HBD #2042, Steven Klafka writes: >I have been using a Hunter air conditioner thermostat to control the >temperature of my chest freezer for several years. The thermostat has >apparently lost much of its accuracy. It's digital readout is set at 50F >but a dial probe thermometer, located next to the thermostat temperature >probe, reads 33F. >Has anyone had any similar experiences? Can the temperature probe on the >Hunter thermostat be calibrated, No, there is no way to calibrate it. However, the problem you describe is fairly common. I own three Hunter airstats, and they have all displayed this behavior at one point. What you need to do is replace the battery in the unit (size AA I think). Press the very small and very recessed RESET button (you'll need something like a straightened paper clip), and re-program it. Works every time. Cheers, Jim dipalma at sky.com Return to table of contents
From: Robert Servranckx <Robert_Ser at ceo.sts-systems.ca> Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 17:16:59 -0700 Subject: Yeast question... Greetings! A question for the brewing collective... A friend of mine brewed this past weekend. The yeast he used was a new pack of WYeast London Ale yeast that had been stepped up to about 2 cups. The picthing temperature of the wort was about 77F, and the surprisingly warm weather (spring has *finally* arrived in Montreal!) kept it a that temperature for the remainder of the fermentation period... 48 hours after pitching, the SG was 1.010! There will undoubtedly be some fruity notes in this brew, but his/my real question is whether the yeast can be safely re-used? The intention was to re-pitch the yeast in a gallon of wort, bottle the yeasty beer and keep it refrigerated for future use... Can you guys tell me whether the fact that the fermentation was a wee bit too warm, and that it finished soooo fast can/will affect future batches of beer made with this yeast? Is this yeast still good, or is it likely to have mutated? Thank in advance for the info... Rob in Montreal Robert_Ser at ceo.sts-systems.ca Return to table of contents
From: Derek Lyons <elde at hurricane.net> Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 07:14:54 -0700 Subject: Vacuum Sealers >Date: 19 May 96 14:23:25 EDT >From: "Sharon A. Ritter" <102446.3717 at CompuServe.COM> >Subject: storing hops > > >I realize the inherent shortcomings of zip lock bags: they probably leak >O2 through the zipper. My other option is to buy a vacuum heat sealer. >I checked the local warehouse retailer and found one for $175 (Foodsaver >brand). > >This question has been posted before but I saw few replies: Does anyone >know of a source for zip lock O2 barrier bags OR know of a decent >vacuum-heat sealer that costs less than the above mentioned model? > Dazey (Of Seal-A-Meal fame) makes one that sells for $50.00US. It works pretty good, but lacks some of the bells 'n whistles of the FoodSaver unit. (913)-782-7500 is the phone number for Customer Service. Derek L. Return to table of contents
From: Jim Liddil <JLIDDIL at azcc.arizona.edu> Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 7:39:17 -0700 (MST) Subject: Milling With all this discussion of milling hasn't anyone out there read the new Stout book and seen that guiness uses a hammer mill? These types of mills crush the whole kernel husk and all to dust. Jim Liddil http://radon.gas.uug.arizona.edu:80/~jliddil/ Return to table of contents
From: "Houseman, David L TR" <DLH1 at trpo3.tr.unisys.com> Date: Wed, 22 May 96 10:41:00 EDT Subject: 1996 Buzz-Off 2nd Posting For those that have already contacted me via EMAIL, the competition packages were mailed on May 21st, somewhat late due to printing problems. For those that what more a competition package in addition to the information here, please contact me and I'll provide one via snail mail. American Homebrewers Association and BJCP Sanctioned Competition Beer Unlimited Zany Zymurgists Present The Third Annual BUZZ-OFF Sunday, June 30, 1996, 10:00 AM Victory Brewing Company 420 Acorn Lane Downingtown, PA Location/Sponsors This year s competition will be sponsored by Beer Unlimited, BUZZ, the Victory Brewing Company and other local sponsors.. The event will be open to the public as Victory Brewing Company is a brewpub and microbrewery. The food and beer are excellent. The awards ceremony will follow the competition. Eligibility The 1996 Buzz-Off Homebrew Competition is open to all non-commercial home-produced beers. Enter as often as you wish. Enter as many categories as you wish. Categories The 1996 BUZZ-Off will judge beer, mead, and cider styles recognized by the American Homebrewers Association and the BJCP. The ususal 1996 AHA categories and subcategories will be used. All entries must indicate category, subcategory, and style description. Sake will be enjoyed, but not judged. All entries will be judged according to the style entered; however, categories may be combined with related categories for the presentation of awards. Awards and Prizes Certificates of achievement, first, second and third place ribbons will be awarded in each category or combined category as well as for the BEST of SHOW. BUZZ will secure commercial sponsorship for category winners. All questions and disputes will be settled by the competition organizer. All decisions will be final. Entries An entry consists of two (2) bottles, accompanied by a completed entry/recipe form -- one for each entry. A bottle ID form must be attached to each bottle with rubber bands -- No glue or tape. Beers must be in clean 10-16 ounce glass bottles, free of labels, raised glass, silk screen, or other identifying markings. Any markings on the cap must be completely blacked out. No swing-top bottles. All entries become the property of BUZZ. No bottles will be returned. Entry Fees & Deadlines Entry fees are $5.00 per entry. Make check payable to Beer Unlimited. Entries must arrive between June 15 and June 24, 1996. Entries will not be accepted before June 15 or after June 24, 1995, except for entries by judges and stewards which may be brought the day of the competition if pre-paid registratrion is received by Jun 24th. Send entries to: BUZZ- Off c/o Beer Unlimited Rts 30 & 401 Malvern, PA 19355 Local entries may be dropped off between June 15 and June 24, 1995 at any of the Philadelphia Area homebrewing stores. Packing and Shipping Pack in a sturdy box. Pad each bottle and the inside of the box. Line box with heavy trash bag and twist-tie securely. Pack entry forms, recipe forms, and fees outside the bag. Mark the box Fragile. UPS is recommended for shipping. Beer Label Contest Beer labels will be judged for artistic merit and appropriateness to the style for the label entry. Entry fee is $2.00. Each label must be accompanied by an entry form. In order to show off your labels in their natural environment, submit entries attached to an empty, capped beer bottle. First, second and third place ribbons will be awarded. Delaware Valley Homebrewer of The Year The BUZZ-Off is the final jewel in the local homebrewing crown: The 1996 Delaware Valley Homebrewer of the Year will be chosen based on points awarded from the Hops-Bops, War of the Worts, Dock Street, Moon Madness and BUZZ-Off Competitions. Judges We will secure the most experienced, qualified BJCP judges possible. We are soliciting qualified judges and stewards from all participating homebrew clubs. Judges and stewards will be awarded experience points toward the Beer Judge Certification Program. Prospective judges and stewards are requested to fill out the attached form. You will be contacted individually to confirm participation and given directions to the contest. Since this year we are holding this event at a new brewery/brew pub in our area, there is even more reason to come and spend the day out of the hot sun. The competition will begin promptly at 10:00am. Stewards and judgees are requested to be present by 9:00am for final assignments. Bed and Brew Judges and stewards from out of the area are welcome to participate in the Bed and Brew program. There are three other brew pubs in the area now, Valley Forge, The Sly Fox and the Lancaster Malt Brewing Company in addition to the fine Victory Brewing Company so come in early the day before and tour the breweries in the area. BUZZ club members are opening their homes for those traveling from some distance who would like to have a place to stay for Saturday June 29th and Sunday June 30th. Please indicate your desire to have a place to stay on the Judge/Steward Registration Form and you will be contacted several weeks prior to the contest. You may enter using the standard recipe, bottle label and judge participation forms or For further information contact: Jim McHale at Beer Unlimited (610) 889-0905 or Dave Houseman H: (610) 458-0743 Competition Organizer W:(610) 648-4071 dlh1 at trpo3.tredydev.unisys.com Return to table of contents
From: Spencer W Thomas <spencer at engin.umich.edu> Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 10:44:48 -0400 Subject: 1996 Small & Tiny results (at last!) The 1996 Small & Tiny homebrew competition turned out to be pretty small and tiny itself. I blame this on insufficient publicity efforts on my part (we'll do better next year, or we won't do it -- I've learned my lesson). But, many of our 15 entries were very good to excellent, with three of the winners scoring over 40 points. If your beer placed it was because it was a good beer. Due to the small number of entries, the categories were collapsed back to the original 2: small and tiny. SMALL BEERS (OG 1.035 - 1.043) - ---------------------------------------------------------------- 1st Bill Holmes English Special Bitter 2nd John P Skryski III and IV Honey Ginger Wheat 3rd John P Skryski III and IV Brown Ale TINY BEERS (OG < 1.035) - ---------------------------------------------------------------- 1st Tom Dimmer American Amber 2nd Stephen Klump English Ordinary Bitter 3rd Bill Holmes Cream Ale BEST OF SHOW went to Tom Dimmer for his excellent "Tiny American Amber". This beer had a wonderful malty nose and was exceptionally drinkable, although it was a tough pick between it and the "small" bitter. I apologize for the delay in getting results out, and can only plead work pressures. Score sheets (but probably not ribbons) will be in the mail by this weekend. I will post some winning recipes in coming weeks, as time permits. My thanks to all of you who took the time and effort to enter your beers, and to Dan McConnell and Paul Philippon for judging. Spencer Thomas Competition Organizer Return to table of contents
From: Marc Hugentobler <MARHUG at mdls.usu.edu> Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 09:21:49 GMT+700 Subject: re:sheperd neame Hey all, > On another topic, I've detected a distinctive flavor in several British ales > I've tasted recently, namely Fullers Olde Winter Ale and Shepherd Neame's > Bishop's Finger Kentish Ale. Now this beer I would venture a guess has little to no diacetyl at all. There is a big, hairy, gnarly kind of Oak and sourness that rendered this beer almost unpalatable. It did improve after I left it in the fridge for a day or two though:-o "Decker, Robin E." <robind at rmtgvl.rmtinc.com> says > This ties in neatly (IMO) with the subject of disclaimers.....KNOCK IT OFF >ALREADY!!! Its the silliest thing I've ever seen...a recommendation, or a Here, here mellow out. Jack and others make many valuable contributions daily. If you wanna bitch, you're gonna hafta kick your contributions up a notch. Cheers, Marc :-):-):-):-):-):-):-) Marhug at mdls.usu.edu Return to table of contents
From: John Wilkinson <jwilkins at imtn.tpd.dsccc.com> Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 10:54:42 -0500 Subject: RE: Gas leaks In hbd #2042 Howard asked about some kind of grease for keg gaskets. I use a keg lube from Williams Brewing at (800) 759-6025. It is $3.90 for a 1 oz. container of what appears to be silicone grease. That seems high but it goes a long way and I could not readily find another source. The important thing is that it has worked very well for me. I use it on all the o-rings with particular attention to the lid ring. It really seems to help seal my kegs. Also, the grease on the qd post rings helps attach lines without binding. I would recommend it or an equivalent. Of course, as with all mail order, don't forget the cost of delivery. John Wilkinson Return to table of contents
From: KennyEddy at aol.com Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 12:00:37 -0400 Subject: More Foam Finds Domenick Venezia dropped me an E-mail with an excellent suggestion for finding foam for Chillers: ************************ Ken, Refridgerators and freezers are shipped in large boxes lined with 2" styrofoam slabs. I know because as a biotechnology company we buy a lot of refridgerators and freezers. My guess is that most household appliances are similarly shipped. Someone looking for styrofoam sheets might want to visit an appliance store dumpster or just ask if they could save some for you. Domenick Venezia Computer Resources ZymoGenetics, Inc. Seattle, WA venezia at zgi.com ************************ So you see, there is a wide range of possible places from which to obtain the stuff. Hospitals (as I mentioned), appliance stores, industrial facilities, machine shops, etc, are all good places to start. My local insulation supplier will part with a brand new 4x8 sheet of 2" extruded polystyrene for $25.44 plus tax. I'm working on an alternate cut plan to allow construction of a Chiller which will accomodate a 7-gal bucket as well as the 6 - 7 gal carboys. The footprint is only slightly larger than the current layout; 19" x 27". It appears that the size may allow up to *four* jugs of ice to be used, which will extend the time between changes and/or allow operation at lower temperatures. Being an ale man, I haven't tried lagering in it, but a friend was able to maintain 55F wort temperature without running the thing full-on, with 2 jugs of ice. In the interim I've posted bucket.gif in my ftp site; it's my preliminary layout for the larger unit (still fits on a 4x8 sheet). Once I've built another one and made sure it's sized correctly I'll rewrite the CHILLER.ZIP document to include it as well as other info I've collected since releasing the design. Ken Schwartz KennyEddy at aol.com http://users.aol.com/kennyeddy Return to table of contents
From: Michael Higuchi <mhiguchi at ix.netcom.com> Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 16:11:30 GMT Subject: Attenuation or Loss of Mass? Here's a technical (and probably useless) question for you yeast gurus (cross-posted to r.c.b and the h.b.d) How much of the apparent attenuation in a fermenting wort is actually due to alcohol production, and how much can be attributed to production of bio-mass (dead yeast) (and also mass loss through CO2 evolution)? Based upon the amount of yeast I find on the bottom of my primaries, I would imagine that this represents a significant proportion. And as we're all aware ;) , CO2 production from a vigorous ferment is not exactly trivial, although I wouldn't imagine that a lot of _mass_ gets lost. Who knows ??? Michael Higuchi Costa Mesa, California Return to table of contents
From: "ADAIR, BENTON E." <ADAIRBE at austy944a.aust.tdprs.state.tx.us> Date: Wed, 22 May 96 11:21:00 PDT Subject: Info for Newbies Check out St. Pats of Texas' web site. There are a couple of examples of brewing, all-grain and extract. http://www.internetnow.com/stpats/index.html neato-keen! -Ben Return to table of contents
From: "William G. Rucker" <ruckewg at naesco.com> Date: Wed, 22 May 96 12:18:54 EST Subject: Brewery wish list Hello brewseekers, For those of you who hve built a brewery in your home, what one detail would you change if you had it to do over again? I am designing my brewery now and have gotten some excellent ideas from those who have looked at my page (http://www.dnh.mv.net/ipusers/peanut/brewbild.htm) and written to me. I hope to have some new additions to the site this week. I am working on a drawing right now of the plumbing for the set up. I am wanting to make a manifold that I can use to transfer fluids from one vessel to another using only one pump, or one pump and gravity. Any thoughts? Thanks, Bill Rucker Somersworth, NH ruckewg at naesco.com brewzer at peanut.mv.com Check out the VirtuBrewery at: http://www.dnh.mv.net/ipusers/peanut/brewbild.htm Return to table of contents
From: Mark Worwetz <MWORWETZ at novell.com> Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 10:50:01 -0600 Subject: Beer in Chicago Howdy from Zion! I realize the tremendous bandwidth burden this message will exert, but dagnabit, when urine Utah ya learn to be pushy! I will be attending Comdex in Chicago in early June and would like to know about the GOOD microbrew pubs. I realize a phone book will help once I get there, but there's nothing like a good reference (or two, or three!). If anyone knows the Cubs schedule for the week of 6/3-6/6, I would love that info too! (Nothing like baseball n' beer!) Please reply offline to Mark_Worwetz at Novell.COM Thankyouverymuchyourewonderful! Return to table of contents
From: Chuck Volle <cvolle at alpha.che.uc.edu> Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 12:47:34 -0400 Subject: Small Bottles Does anyone have a suggestion for obtaining bottles to house my "Beloved Barleywine". Ideally, the typical nip bottles would be great, but, I don't know where to find them. I think a twelve ouncer will be too large and, altho' consuming a case of Grimbergen small guys sounds like a party, there's got to be another way! I've got a 2 1/2 gallon batch dry hoppin right now, so I've got a little time, but I want to "put it up" pretty soon. Thanks in advance! Chuck Volle cvolle at alpha.che.uc.edu Creative Juices Brewery Return to table of contents
From: krkoupa at ccmail2.pacbell.com Date: Wed, 22 May 96 10:13:03 PST Subject: Ants in the Air-Lock My carboys are on the floor of the garage because it's cooler there. (Californians don't have basements.) Two days ago I noticed a stream of ants making a beeline for the carboys, so I pulled out my can of Raid and let 'em have it. (I think they got tired of drinking 12 ounces of Bud at the old ant hill and were going for the 5-gallon sized Weizen.) Last night I found about a dozen ants had crawled into the air-lock and died. I don't know if they were Raided or not before they went swimming, but I assume so. Is my beer ruined? ;-) It's just an air-lock, a "one-way" valve of sorts, without beer contact, so there shouldn't be any problem, right? My two questions are: 1. Should I leave the ants (and risk nano parts per million Raid contamination) or should I remove the ants (and risk ordinary air-nasties contamination)? 2. Has anyone done a study on fumes passing through air-locks? For example, auto exhaust (being in the garage and all that.) Thanks, Ken Koupal krkoupa at ccmail2.pacbell.com (Gee, that HBD transfer to AOB was painless.) Return to table of contents
From: Scott Abene <skotrat at wwa.com> Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 12:22:51 -0500 Subject: Hmmmmm! Grain Mills? Hey all, Does anyone here have an opinion on a good grain mill to buy? I mean what are the differences really? Is a roller mill better than a plate mill??? How bout my coffee grinder? Is this a good way to mill my grain? Anybody here make their own mills and sell them? - -Scott "I just couldn't resist this sick little bit of sarcasm" Abene #################################################### # ThE-HoMe-BrEw-RaT # # Scott Abene <skotrat at wwa.com> # # http://miso.wwa.com/~skotrat # # (Skotrats Official Homebrew "Beer Slut" Webpage) # # OR # # http://miso.wwa.com/~skotrat/Brew-Rat-Chat/ # # (Skotrats Brew-Rat-Chat Homebrew Chat System) # # "Get off your dead ass and brew" # #################################################### Return to table of contents
From: Bill Press <press at lip.wustl.edu> Date: Wed, 22 May 96 17:31:01 GMT Subject: HELP: Water filters? Water treatment? I live in St. Louis, where we have, according to the EPA, an excessive amount of carinogens in our water (due to fertilizer and pesticides). Also, as many of the houses around here were built before The Depression, much of the plumbing (including, I believe, my house) has lead in the piping. I want to buy a water filter -- one of those cylinders that goes in-line with my faucet (i.e. not a Brita filter that holds less than a gallon at a time, and which I need to fill up). Does anyone have recommendations which one I should buy? How much will this thing cost? Is there anything I need to do to my water (minerals) in order to make up for the filtering when I brew? Thanks, Bill Return to table of contents
From: Shawn Steele <shawn at aob.org> Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 11:53:35 -0600 Subject: The Move Unfortunatly there seem to be a few technical problems with the move. I am working on them as we speak. 1. Our computer is sending mail slowly, but as far as I know it is getting to everyone on the list, just a bit slowly. I am working on our system's mailer configuration to improve performance. 2. Digest #2042 was large. This is due to the conversion from Rob's system to majordomo and 4 users mail size limits were exceeded. The size has dropped and the digest has been moved from 6 days/week to 7 days/week to try to combat large digests. I intend to pay attention to size and limit it if necessary. 3. The digest does not respond to new submissions like it used to. I intend to add an acknowledgement message, but that will have to wait until I get the e-mail speed problem solved. I hope to have everything working more normally very shortly and I apologize for any glitches. - - shawn Shawn Steele Digest Janitor Return to table of contents
From: "Daniel S. McConnell" <danmcc at umich.edu> Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 15:48:35 -0500 Subject: 1996 Mazer Cup 1996 MAZER CUP MEAD COMPETITION Announcing the 5th Annual Mazer Cup Mead Competition, the oldest Mead-only competition in North America. Proud sponsor of the 1996 National Homebrew Competition Mead Category. [yikes, I sound like a beer commercial....] The entire announcement has been posted to the mead lovers digest and will appear soon. Send me a message and I will send you the full announcement with forms etc. The mazers are uncommonly beautiful this year-a really unusual glaze! Plus, there is a 40 lb pail of either Orange Blossom or Sierra Mesquite/Catclaw Honey to give away with the usual ribbons, yeast culture kits and a wort chiller or two. All North American entries will be accepted between June 5-21st 1996. International entries will be accepted anytime before June 21st. Ken and I will accept entries at the National Homebrew Conference and hand carry them back to Michigan. First round judging will be held during the weekend of June 29, 1996. Best of Show judging will be held on June 30th 1996 e-mail to Ken Schramm <SchramK at wcresa.k12.mi.us> will get you a snail-mail, postable copy of this flyer (in color!) and entry forms. Qualified Mead Judges are invited to help us judge this event. Online entry is available courtesy of Spencer Thomas: http://realbeer.com/spencer/AABG/mazer_mead.html DanMcC Return to table of contents
From: "PAUL K. ANDERSON" <PANDERSON at hope.cit.hope.edu> Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 11:22:25 -0500 (EST) Subject: Keeping the hose on your chiller If you have (or have access to) a flaring tool for copper tubing you can work a small flare onto the end of the tube where you attach the pressure hose. By then clamping behind the flare you should be able to keep the hose on. Just don't flare too much or the increase in diameter will prevent your attaching the hose. Paul Return to table of contents
From: Fred Hardy <fcmbh at access.digex.net> Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 13:49:29 -0400 (EDT) Subject: AHA NHC Bashing My post on the results coming from Florida has fostered a number of posts very critical of the AHA. It was my intent to be critical of the organizers who I feel were at fault. Suggestions that the AHA find better organizers and/or sites with a plethora of judges is a gross oversimplification of the effort required to run the NHC. The Washington, DC, area has a plethora of judges AND experienced organizers. The AHA approached several of us in the area about organizing a 1st round NHC regional site. There were no takers, and the AHA was forced to seek other sites. Why were there no takers? Members of my club (we're small) cited risk of financial ruin (the AHA and the regional organizers operate on a very tight budget) as one of two main reasons. The other was that it is a bunch of work, and they saw no payoff for their efforts. I suspect somewhat similar reasons were given by the area's megaclub. I was willing to be an organizer, but the support just wasn't available for such minor issues as a site, fund raising activities and the like. Putting on one of these HBCs is a bear, folks. The Spirit of Free Beer in the spring and the Capitol District Open in the fall, plus usually one single style competition already chews up a lot of the voluntary fervor of the area. I just feel that the Florida organizers could have done better. As for the scores I received, they don't bother me a bit. A win at one competition says nothing about how that beverage will be perceived elsewhere. I'm irked because I suspect the organizers did not tell the obviously inexperienced judges that two of my entries were braggot, not honey flavored rocket fuel (though I did enter one of those, too). As for next year? Well, I'm going to spend some time seeing if maybe the DC area has enough interest for a consortium of area clubs to organize a 1st round AHA NHC mid-Atlantic regional site. I'd like to see if we can do better. BTW, thanks, AHA for the NHC. I look forward to it every year - worts and all. ============================================================================== We must invent the future, else it will | <Fred Hardy> happen to us and we will not like it. | [Stafford Beer, "Platform for Change"] | email: fcmbh at access.digex.net ============================================================================== Return to table of contents
From: "Nathan L. Kanous II" <nlkanous at facstaff.wisc.edu> Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 17:31:42 -0500 Subject: Moving! I'm moving. I need to find brewers, brewclubs, and supplies in my new home. I will be relocating to Michigan. My wife and I haven't decided exactly where we will be, but my job is in Saginaw. So, anybody out there that can help make my relocation more pleasurable, please do so. TIA Nathan - ------------------------------ Return to table of contents
From: Andy Walsh <awalsh at crl.com.au> Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 10:37:28 +1100 Subject: Coopers Sparkling Ale Chris writes: >>The Coopers Sparkling ale has the exact 'off taste' as my pear brew. Is >>this an ester (sp) taste? Any input about what this is and how to >>git OR NOT GIT this taste would be greatly appreciated. and Al replies: >When you mentioned Coopers Sparkling Ale, that rang a bell in my head. >This beer has a rather strong phenolic aroma/flavour. Sorry guys, when you mention one of my favourite commercial beers I have to make a comment. As a good Adelaide boy I was weaned off mother's milk onto this stuff. I have to say that it has a huge bottle variation, no doubt due to the bottle conditioning (it has *large* yeast deposits), and transport treatments. Some samples (especially recently) are extremely phenolic, and that's been noticed by our beer club members over the last year or so. (I am Sydney based now). I find it hard to believe that you'd get any decent samples at all in the US, due to the long transport times from Australia. The very best samples are the kegged ones, and these must be carefully handled by the cellarmaster to be any good at all, anyway. Good samples are not phenolic, and *do* have a fruity apple/pear character. Bad samples are really phenolic, and virtually undrinkable. Coopers Sparkling Ale must be about the most temperamental beer on this earth. Coopers doesn't travel! - -- Andrew Walsh CHAD Research Laboratories Phone (61 2) 212 6333 5/57 Foveaux Street Fax (61 2) 212 1336 Surry Hills. NSW. 2010 email awalsh at crl.com.au Australia. Return to table of contents
From: Andy Walsh <awalsh at crl.com.au> Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 10:53:40 +1100 Subject: Duvel clones Jim Cave writes: > I made a Duvel clone with two (reputedly) different strains of the >Duvel yeasts. Duvel is mashed to about 1.058 and then the gravity is raise >to the 1.070's with dextrose. For fear of Crabtree with the very high levels >of dextrose to be added, I prepared a very large starter (2.5 litres) with >45 litres of beer. I pitched this in a conventional gravity 1.058 wort, well >oxygenated, and got a very happy ferment going. My thoughts were to get a >vigorous ferment and then add liquid dextrose...wrong! I added the Dextrose >and the ferment virtually came to a halt. It took 3 weeks for the yeast to >finally poop out and as it was still sweet, I ended up finishing the beer >with some Celis yeast which I had collected from a Primary. This finished >quickly. > The moral to the story is...make a small beer first and pitch all >of this yeast into a strong beer made with dextrose. BTW this beer was >bottle conditioned with fresh Duvel yeast and was fully conditioned in 5 days. I too have tried adding dextrose mid-ferment to Belgians for fear of Crabtree. I agree it doesn't work, and is a great way to get a stuck ferment. When using high dextrose concentrations, it seems to be best added in the boil, but even then some yeasts just won't ferment out. I persisted with 3944 for a long time, tossing out batch after batch. (sob). The new Wyeast 1388 is supposedly one of the Duvel yeasts. I have a Duvel clone in the secondary now made in a similar way to Jim's (but with the sugar added to the boil) and had a good quick fermentation. Talk about low flocculation though! BTW, Duvel is supposedly lagered around 0C for a few weeks as well, according to Jackson. - -- Andrew Walsh CHAD Research Laboratories Phone (61 2) 212 6333 5/57 Foveaux Street Fax (61 2) 212 1336 Surry Hills. NSW. 2010 email awalsh at crl.com.au Australia. Return to table of contents
From: texan at mindspring.com (James and Tamara Williams) Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 22:28:01 -0400 Subject: hydrometer readings In HBD #2043 Jeremy E. Mirsky writes: >My second question pertains to my hydrometer readings, which are usually >discrepant with the recipe or the calculated gravity. This time I boiled about >3.5 gals of wort and tried to mix as well as I could with the water in the >fermenter. Suds4.0 gave me a O.G. of 1.046, yet my reading was about 1.038 >(after cooling below 80 deg.) This has happened with most of my batches. Has >anyone had similar experiences? This may seem like a dumb question, but have you calibrated your hydrometer? Test your hydometer by taking a reading using distilled water. It should read 1.000. If not, the difference is the correction factor you need to add or substract to your measurements in the future. Now, to the first question: >I followed the advice I received from the collective and made a starter, which > never got very active over the 2 days it sat. <SNIP> I used a 22 oz. bottle, a > couple tbsps. of malt extract, and some hops First, there really is no need to add hops to your starter. The lack of activity in your starter is likely due to the amount of malt you used. A couple of tablespoons is not enough. You need to use closer to a cup in two cups of water. to start. With only two tbls, the yeast finished with the sugar before you could have noticed and before it could reproduce to sufficient numbers for pitching. If you have the time and inclination, you should step up from the two cups again before pitching. I usually don't, but the more yeast the better. James Williams texan at mindspring.com Come see the web page for our Atlanta-based brew club. www.mindspring.com/~texan/SAAZ.html Return to table of contents
From: Tim Wort <tim at Access.COM> Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 21:19:03 -0600 Subject: tea.. serious brew, heart of the hops I have only seen one mention of a "hop tea" while reading the FHW tread, I have tried the "hop tea" method and found it to work very well for both flavor and aroma. At bottling time add the priming sugar to a quart of water, add .5 oz of you preferred hops and bring to a boil (1 min or so boil), add to the brew and bottle. My experience is that this adds a prnounced hop aroma, no bitter and plenty of flavor (so much you might make it .25 oz). Having said that, what experience does the group have with hop oil? I have never tried it for dry hopping, is it worth the effort? The heart of the hops ad (by Miller), they really only show someone holding a hop bud, it is as others have said, marketing BS. I may try one though just to see if there is any hop taste.... BTW yes, it's my real name. - -tw Return to table of contents
From: cerevis at mcs.net (Christopher Weirup) Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 23:16:19 -0500 Subject: Re: Lagering refrigerator In HBD #2024, Ronald Narvaez wrote: >A few months ago I had some instructions on how to make a Lagering >refrigerator using Styrofoam, a computer fan and a block of Ice. I had a >hard drive crash on my computer and lost most of my important data. I >would like to do a couple lagers that I have but I do not have the room >or the means to set up a full sized lagering refrigerator. If anybody has >a copy of these instructions or can point me to a place where I can get >them I would greatly appreciate it. I made one myself from plans I found in the beer archives of AOL. I think those are the plans that you are referring to. I don't have the name of guy or the plans on this computer right now, but I can get them to you if you wish. Plus, I can give you some tips from my experience in making the contraption. Just some quick info: There were two sets of plans, the first being how to build the basic setup and the second on how to adjust the thermostat to get the temps down to a lagering level. It holds one five-gallon carboy with airlock and two 1-gallon milk bottles of ice. I find that it is great to maintain good temperature control, especially during the summer, for both ales and lagers for those of us in which it is impractical to get a second fridge, i.e., living in an apartment, very little space, etc. However, you will need the second set of plans to have any success at getting down to lager temps. Even then, I find that the contraption will struggle to get down to anything colder than around45-48 degrees F. But that may have more to do with my poor building skills than the design of the contraption :). Chris Weirup cerevis at mcs.net Return to table of contents
From: apmcgregor at nmaa.org (Art McGregor) Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 00:36:05 -0400 Subject: Keg Beer lines and Carbonator Hi Every One! I've only kegged two batches so far, but thought I should chime in. I've not had great success with the 3/8 od (1/4 id) vinyl hoes that came with the kegs. I feel safer with pressure at 10 psi, but the beer comes out as foam at that pressure. I needed to reduce the pressure down to 2-3 psi each time I would draw a beer. However, after some reading, I bought 3/16 id vinyl tubing and just tonight tried it out. I can keep the pressure at 10 psi in the keg and get a good non-foam mug of beer. I use about 4 ft of tubing. The friction of the smaller diameter beer line is much higher for 3/16 id (I think around 2 or 2.2 psi/ft of hose versus the 1/4 id hose I used before (around .6 psi/ft of hose). So with around 4 ft of hose, the pressure needed to push the beer thru the line is 9-10 psi and so far (only one mug), it works much better. My success with the carbonator has improved with filling the 2 liter bottles. I now pressurize to 30 psi, then put in freezer and shake every 30 min-hour. When it starts to freeze, I remove carbonator, the screw bottle cap on. So far so good. It is still much more of a process than I would like though ... Hoppy Brewing! :^) Art McGregor (Day: mcgregap at acq.osd.mil) (Evening/Weekend: apmcgregor at nmaa.org) Return to table of contents